Newbie 1076: Day Three

[MrBump]

I assume Darkie means that Darla doesn't want to quit because she's scum.

Kage's meta thing. Why would he keep to his meta solely to help himself? How does that help town AT ALL? We were stuck in stalemate for forever when he THOUGHT Sakako was scum. At that point you go "Yeah, I think I should maybe vote Sakako". But that would appear scummy. Kage's unholy self-preservation is suspicious.

Needs moar full message from Otolia.

[Otolia]

I will repeat what I said in my other game. This week is a tough one for me, I have to flight back to Berlin, my GF went home in Finland, I had to meet my supervisor yesterday. I am reading the thread and I know this sound like active lurking but I am not willing to give this game any more time until Saturday/Sunday.

Anyhow i think you made a big mistake in killing Sakako, his lynch came out of nowhere when I gave you a perfect reason to lynch me. It's maybe a newbie game but still some people were far too rash and switched their votes too easily/lynch Sakako too easily. I also think that Mr. Bump showed he is more enclined to be town than scum. He didn't light the fire on me again (which would have been easy) and keep posting almost alone. That's a given. Otherwise I will need more reading to give a full post but DBE and DFL are for me the scums right now. Not voting though.

[Nachomamma8]

Votecount 2-1:

DarkFlashlight (0) -
Otolia (0) -
Glass (0) -
MrBump (0) -
Kagetora (2)- Glass, MrBump
Olinea (0) -
DarlaBlueEyes (2) - DarkFlashlight, Kagetora
Not Voting (3): Otolia, Olinea, DarlaBlueEyes


With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is April 28, 2011.

Your mod is going on a journey to Chicago. As a result, he will be gone until Saturday or so. In the meanwhile, a wonderful person named Equinox will take care of you. Flavor reasons probably won't be made up later because your mod is far too excited to care about mafia at the moment.

[Glass]

Going to class so I don't have time for a full-blown response but this made me lol and was too good to pass up.

Where is the scum motivation in trying to stick to a Town meta? To appear Town? Appearing Town is not a scumtell.

trying to stick to town meta = trying to appear town = scum's entire gameplay

[Olinea]

Going to class so I don't have time for a full-blown response but this made me lol and was too good to pass up.

Where is the scum motivation in trying to stick to a Town meta? To appear Town? Appearing Town is not a scumtell.

trying to stick to town meta = trying to appear town = scum's entire gameplay

The hell?

And how should Town act? Scummy?

[Glass]

Looking town =/= trying to look town

[Olinea]

I'd agree to that in some circumstances. Looking Town sometimes comes naturally regardless of alignment.

However, we're really just arguing a semantics game at the moment.

[Glass]

wtf are you talking about oli?

Here is how the convo went:

Oli: What's the scum motivation in trying to look town?
Glass: It's scum's goal to appear town...
Oli: So town should act scummy?
Glass: (Hmm, he clearly misunderstood what I was saying) No, trying to look town is scummy. Being town is not scummy.
Oli: You're right, some people look town regardless of alignment.
Glass: ...

You thinking that there is no scum motivation in trying to look town is such a steaming heap of crap. I can't tell if you are trying to change the subject or actually just don't understand what I am saying.

Now what is the scummiest?
The person who lurks through day 1 and part of day 2?
The person who ignores day 1 and talks nonsense?
The person who doesn't scumhunt and is trying to look town.

All pretty scummy, but I personally think that these are ordered from least to most scummy. Well, I am home now and will be working on the kage case.

[Olinea]

Look, I get that Kage claims to be trying to appear Town. But how is that a scumtell? Nobody's going to try upholding a

scum

meta. I completely understand that there's scum motivation in trying to look Town. I'm saying that it's also Town motivation to look Town, too.

[Glass]

@Oli
You shouldn't need to try and uphold a town meta if you are town, it should come naturally.

Now why kage is scum:

He tries to look town above lynching the mafia. This is very scummy because the scum's wincon is to survive, while the town's is to lynch mafia. During day 1 he failed to scumhunt at all under a false pretense of believing that the no lynch was a better move. Kage even came in with an unprompted, very strong post which I would have seen as very town if he had actually backed it up with his actions.
Here is what I am responding to in particular:

Look just gonna say this now, I don't really care if I survive this game, I just hope that if/when you lynch me the town will be in a better position.

Here he is saying that he does not care if he is lynched, as long as the mafia get lynched. So why do his actions show the exact opposite? Just an attempt to gain some town points.

Kage has not done any scumhunting. His excuse day 1 was that anything can look scummy, really a weak excuse since nothing will change the next day unless a cop turns up with a guilty. His excuse day 2 is... umm... nothing?

He has been voting illogically. At the start of the day he stated that he was fairly certain that otolia's claim was an actual scum claim. Instead of attacking otolia he sits around for some more and then comes out with this post:

Olinea, Glass, MrBump, DBE were on that wagon

Not true, it was oli, bump, DFL, chk, and me on that wagon.

Right now my number 1 pick is DBE as my other two picks died yesterday.

WTF happened to thinking otolia is scum? In this post kage even says that DBE is scum and that her buddy is either oli or bump.
In that post the one of the only reasons you give for voting DBE is that you think that someone on the sakako wagon was scum (for some reason...) and that DBE was the most likely (even though she wasn't on the wagon...). The other reason you gave was a link to a post in which DFL voted for DBE because he did not like her lurking. Since the first reason is destroyed I guess you are sheeping the one reason DFL gave to jump on the wagon (and even that is not very clear tbh).
Seems to me like you are jumping onto a counter-wagon to save yourself and thus go onto the easiest wagon you can find (DBE is nowhere, how could she attack you for it? Right? And DFL is on it so he MUST have a good reason to be on it)

Him coming online to check if night is over is also bs.

The first one I came in wondering if the night was over. It wasn't. The second one I didn't feel like I had much to contribute at the time so I didn't bother posting.

so you came on to see if night ended. It hadn't. So then when you came on again to see if night had ended (and it had) but you didn't feel like posting? Why were you waiting for night to end if you didn't feel like posting?

tl;dr version: Kage is scum. Lynch him ASAP.

[DarkFlashlight]

Darkie's putting down a vote on DarlaBlueEyes citing his reasoning as...

If you're always busy or unavailable, why don't you just get a replacement and join another game later? It's not like you're attached to this one.

... which I find to be a bit of a convoluted "Lynch All Lurkers" policy. Am I missing something in your reasoning, Darkie?

You're missing a lot. I believe all of DBE's reasons for V/LA, and I'm indifferent to the fact that she's doing it, however unproductive it is. My point is that, if you were so inconvenienced as to have made like, three actual posts in a 16 page game, why would you not replace? You're not helping town by not being there. On the flipside, she says she's reading at least, so she can see that hardly anyone truly suspects her, so if she doesn't replace and keeps the inactive streak, it's a pretty safe ride, why endanger that by gambling on a replacement?

Anyhow i think you made a big mistake in killing Sakako, his lynch came out of nowhere when I gave you a perfect reason to lynch me.

Sakako's wagon was rolling far before you said that.

It's maybe a newbie game but still some people were far too rash and switched their votes too easily/lynch Sakako too easily.

Me, you, and Kage are the only newbies left. Spikkle, Common Man, and Sondanaa all got replaced by non-newbies.

[Kagetora]

ok not sure how much time I have to write this but here goes... I may or may not get a chance to dig back in this post. Pester me about it if I don't. btw don't expect another post from me until Friday.

Why do you FoS Darla?

Idr what originally set me off, let me get back to you on that. The second part of that sentence I cannot stress enough.

An excellent point, but I'm pretty sure everyone thinks Glass is town by now. Anywho, I don't get your first part. chk was town, yet you're surprised he flipped town? Did you mean to say "He was town from the Maf's prespective, and from Town's prespective it's surprising he flipped town". It sounds like you're trying to be both Maf and Town in that sentence. Plus, if he was the NightKill, it's hardly surprising he flipped town. Do you mean to say you weren't surprised he died, but thought he was Maf? What?

Yeah I figured this would be misread when I posted it, I'll take the blame for the poor wording. Let me try and reword that. Since he was town, I'm not surprised he died. I am surprised he was town in the first place. Does that make more sense?

You give basically no reasoning for Olinea being Darla's buddy, and reasoning for me basically says "Glass/Bump could be a team but Glass is town so Bump is Mafia", which makes no sense. Swapping over again, your reasoning for Olinea was all minor stuff from D2 and you "couldn't remember" the rest of it. How can you NOT remember your case on someone??? You're clutching at straws.

I don't remember specifics because I usually don't care about specifics, rather what people do overall.

@Olinea: I don't really like your defense of me, especially when I don't feel your arguments lend much credibility to my case. I suspect it might be trying to distance yourself from other people.

Olinea, Glass, MrBump, DBE were on that wagon

Not true, it was oli, bump, DFL, chk, and me on that wagon.

I know the votecount Nacho posted as of Sakako's lynch was wrong, and DFL was on twice. I'm pretty sure DBE also voted Sakako. If I'm wrong, well fuck, I probably just lynched myself.

WTF happened to thinking otolia is scum?

I became convinced it was a requested suicide, which I would be VERY surprised if scum actually did that.

Seems to me like you are jumping onto a counter-wagon to save yourself and thus go onto the easiest wagon you can find (DBE is nowhere, how could she attack you for it? Right? And DFL is on it so he MUST have a good reason to be on it)

I did FoS DBE yesterday, it's not entirely random you do realize.

Him coming online to check if night is over is also bs.

The first one I came in wondering if the night was over. It wasn't. The second one I didn't feel like I had much to contribute at the time so I didn't bother posting.

so you came on to see if night ended. It hadn't. So then when you came on again to see if night had ended (and it had) but you didn't feel like posting? Why were you waiting for night to end if you didn't feel like posting?

Tonight on Ripley's Believe It or Not! I wasn't lying.

Looks like I have more time than I thought I did. I'll try and post again right now with what set me off on DBE and Olinea

[Kagetora]

Ok now I see what originally caused my suspicion figure to itch around DBE. Her response to Chk's "SE could be maf" seemed overdone and emotional when it didn't need to be. Also I felt like at the time DBE hadn't really actually pointed out any good reasons for CM's lynch in her vote post other than Scummy is as scummy does. After that, essentially VLA the entire time. Which I agree with DFLs point, why doesn't she replace?

Ok reading for Olinea now.

and... damn. my lack of remembering specifics, and my lack of being able to find them is probably gonna get me lynched today.

[MrBump]

Glass's wall is A+ trolololo

Onto Kage:
You can't forget why someone is scummy.

Sure, you can forget INDIVIDUAL POSTS, but if you thought someone was scummy, say, overnight, you can't just forget them. Especially when you had

no reads

D1.

Also, Darla's response stuck out to me as ProTown and made CHK look scummier. IMO, anyway.

Since he was town, I'm not surprised he died. I am surprised he was town in the first place.

I kinda get that, I suppose. Still seems silly. It seems like you knew he was town like scum would and then added on the last part at the end just to seem town.

At the start of the day you thought Otolia was scum, then you "became convinced" it was a requested suicide? How did THAT happen???

Onto Otolia:

Anyhow i think you made a big mistake in killing Sakako, his lynch came out of nowhere

Y'know, you voting him probably didn't help at all.

when I gave you a perfect reason to lynch me.

Er, I'm not sure if this counts as a slip or not...
"OH KILLING SAKAKO WAS BAD HE WAS TOWN"
"YOU SHOULD HAVE LYNCHED ME!"
I dun geddit.

It's maybe a newbie game but still some people were far too rash and switched their votes too easily/lynch Sakako too easily.

Hypocrisy is cool, right.

Otherwise I will need more reading to give a full post but DBE and DFL are for me the scums right now. Not voting though.

How the-
How can-
WHAT?
Well, IMO, Darkie's one of the towniest players in the entire game. But more importantly, Darla/Darkie as buddies? How the hell does that make any sense? o.o

Back to Kage:
Why are you already set to be lynched?

If I'm wrong, well fuck, I probably just lynched myself.

and my lack of being able to find them is probably gonna get me lynched today.

AtE here amirite

Have fun Nacho! xD
@Otolia, Olinea and Darla: Who are your top reads? Only because them three aren't voting and... yeah.

[Otolia]

I unvoted Sakako ! Don't get me into your delirium Mr. Bump !

If you want to point fingers at someone you'd better do it on something true ...

[Olinea]

@Oli
You shouldn't need to try and uphold a town meta if you are town, it should come naturally.

Looking Town sometimes comes naturally regardless of alignment.

:/

Alright, so the Kagetora case is building to be large enough where I’m really not dismissing this stuff as a series of newbie mistakes. I’d be glad to L-1 Kagetora (Isn’t he at L-2?

Equinox, can we get a vote count?

) after we figure out what’s going on with Otolia and his message since I think it seems pretty airtight – if he has it, he’s Town; if he doesn’t, I’m putting a good amount of money on him being scum.

One thing in your case I noticed, Glass:

Him coming online to check if night is over is also bs.

The first one I came in wondering if the night was over. It wasn't. The second one I didn't feel like I had much to contribute at the time so I didn't bother posting.

so you came on to see if night ended. It hadn't. So then when you came on again to see if night had ended (and it had) but you didn't feel like posting? Why were you waiting for night to end if you didn't feel like posting?

Wouldn’t this reinforce the idea that he thought chkflip was scum? If one of your top scumreads suddenly dies overnight, it pretty much leaves you at a loss as to who to suspect. That being said, I’m willing to vote Kage as long as I’m not dropping a hammer sans claim.

You're missing a lot. I believe all of DBE's reasons for V/LA, and I'm indifferent to the fact that she's doing it, however unproductive it is. My point is that, if you were so inconvenienced as to have made like, three actual posts in a 16 page game, why would you not replace? You're not helping town by not being there. On the flipside, she says she's reading at least, so she can see that hardly anyone truly suspects her, so if she doesn't replace and keeps the inactive streak, it's a pretty safe ride, why endanger that by gambling on a replacement?

Lemme check some of Darla’s other games and see if she’s inactive in only this one. It seems like you’re saying Darla’s more active in her other Town games since the Town is depending on her input, but if there are other games where she’s just as inactive, it seems

pretty

unlikely that Darla would land scum roles in

all

of her games.

I know the votecount Nacho posted as of Sakako's lynch was wrong, and DFL was on twice. I'm pretty sure DBE also voted Sakako. If I'm wrong, well fuck, I probably just lynched myself.

Not sure what you mean here, Kage.

Onto Kage:
You can't forget why someone is scummy.

Remind me to talk about this post-game.

@Otolia, Olinea and Darla: Who are your top reads?

At this point, Kagetora + Otolia (if Otolia can’t produce what we’re looking for). If Otolia produces, I’ll be re-reading.

[Glass]

Looking Town sometimes comes naturally regardless of alignment.

Disagree, but completely irrelevant right now.

Wouldn’t this reinforce the idea that he thought chkflip was scum?

no.

Lemme check some of Darla’s other games and see if she’s inactive in only this one.

I checked when day 2 started and she hadn't been active in her other games (if she had been she would have gotten my vote right away), tell us your findings though.

You can't forget why someone is scummy.

Remind me to talk about this post-game.

Can we not talk about it during-game?

I know the votecount Nacho posted as of Sakako's lynch was wrong, and DFL was on twice. I'm pretty sure DBE also voted Sakako.

Nah, DBE was on me for all of day 1. Votecount that nacho posted it was correct by my count.

It seems like you knew he was town like scum would and then added on the last part at the end just to seem town.

Bump attacking this again worries me. I knew what kage was talking about, and I will paraphrase.
"I am surprised that chk flipped town, but the mafia killing him is not that big a surprise considering that he is a town IC."

"OH KILLING SAKAKO WAS BAD HE WAS TOWN"
"YOU SHOULD HAVE LYNCHED ME!"

This is actually really good though, I may have to reread and reconsider my read on oto.

[Glass]

@Equinox
Prod DBE please?

[Equinox]

Votecount 2-4:

DarkFlashlight (0) -
Otolia (0) -
Glass (0) -
MrBump (0) -
Kagetora (2) - Glass, MrBump
Olinea (0) -
DarlaBlueEyes (2) - DarkFlashlight, Kagetora
Not Voting (3): Otolia, Olinea, DarlaBlueEyes


With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is April 28, 2011.

DarlaBlueEyes has been prodded.

[MrBump]

"I am surprised that chk flipped town, but the mafia killing him is not that big a surprise considering that he is a town IC."

Still doesn't sit right with me. I understand what he TRIED to say, but I don't like it.

Why post-game, Olinea? inb4wwxii

Also, Kage is at L-3. This is where someone votes him, amirite.

[Olinea]

Also, Kage is at L-3. This is where someone votes him, amirite.

4 to lynch.

Vote: Rage in the Kage

THAT'S L-1.

[Equinox]

Votecount 2-5:

DarkFlashlight (0) -
Otolia (0) -
Glass (0) -
MrBump (0) -

L-1

Kagetora (3) - Glass, MrBump, Olinea
Olinea (0) -
DarlaBlueEyes (2) - DarkFlashlight, Kagetora
Not Voting (2): Otolia, DarlaBlueEyes


With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is April 28, 2011.

[Glass]

@Kage
who, if anyone, on your wagon do you think is scum?

@DBE, DFL, oto
What do you think of the kage wagon?

[MrBump]

I do this every Day 2 ever. I completely forget the hammer changes. >_>

@Everyone: Does anyone have any intent to hammer?
@Olinea/Glass: If you were given the hammer on Kage, would you hammer? My answer is yes. The tells just all add up and Kage is scummy enough that I'm confident he'll flip scum.

[Glass]

I would be indifferent; I am fairly confident that kage is scum, but I would love to hear SOMETHING from DBE before we head into a potential lylo situation.