130.Mirror Mafia - Game Over

[Calcifer]

Priority of my reads:
-Zdenek.
-Nocmen.
-Bub.
-Cecily.
-Gollum.
-Pine.
-Twisted.
-Farside.

Give or take, that seems to be the importance of 'em. But I'd rather start out on the defensive rather than offensive. So, list re-ordered:

-Nocmen.
-Bub.
-Cecily.
-Pine.
-Zdenek.
-Gollum.
-Farside.
-Twisted. (Not really at danger. At all. But

those votes are

that vote is still there, and I need to convince Twisted's voter

s

to go elsewhere.)

Nocmen it is, then. (Arg, this'll be hard.)

[Calcifer]

Nocmen started off pretty bad: he was VLA at the beginning of the game.

And--in fact--I think it was even in his sig at the time. (I remember seeing it somewhere, anyway.)

He said as much in post 24. People seem to give Nocmen flak for his return, stating, essentially, "There's only two pages to read!"

Thing is, there wasn't.

There were four.

"Well, yeah, but we started playing half-way down page two."

Indeed. But how would you know where the game began if you were away? When Nocmen last posted, there was only one page.

In other words, there's no merit to the suspicion of only two pages. Sure, there were only two pages of content to read, but the thread gave the visual appearance of there being four, not two. Making Nocmen's statement hold true--he WOULD have quite some amount of reading to do if there were four pages of content. (Who wouldn't?) Four pages can take hours to read. (Generally not beginning pages, but it still takes 5-10 minutes per page.)

It took Nocmen ~2 and a half hours to post after that. I find that reasonable, simply because of
-Processing. You can read the pages in 5-10 minutes, but you can add an extra 5-10 to make sense of them. This is especially true of townspeople. (Making the added length more reason to think Nocmen is town.)
-Writing. Personally, I find it takes three times longer to write my posts than it does to read 'em.

Making it well within the acceptable bounds for me; he clearly meant it and was being honest about the readthrough.

Nor do we like Nocmen for his piggybacking of Arc.

This gem will be featured later in the Gollum case, but this doesn't seem like a bus. It looks like a, "we're keeping this guy available as a mislynch". Since I believe Gollum to be scum (will explain later--see priority list I posted), that's reason to believe Nocmen is town.

Gollum's followup furthers this. (It could be Nocmen OR Flinter, but Gollum's probably implying Nocmen.)

Nocmen - First I have trouble believe that someone who has been around MS since 2008 doesn't know what a hider does. The question to Pac looks pointless fluff. I also find his case and reasoning on Thor is horiblly weak. He doesn't even mention anyone else in the game.

One of my scumreads attacking Nocmen, possible bussing.

Two

of them attacking Nocmen?
Confirmed town.
Wait, did I say two? Oh, my bad.

I agree with Farside that considering Nocmen's join date, it's hard to believe that he doesn't know how average hiders work.

Make that all three. Nope, not scum; not a chance on earth--confirmed town.

More than that: Nocmen explained that he knew about Hiders dieing if they hid behind someone who died.
But you know how nowadays, it's standard for them to die behind scum?

Yeah. It wasn't always that way. There was a huge debate about it at some point. But it was FAR from universal to have the Hider hiding behind scum kill the Hider--it happened more often than it did not, but it was not as universal as it is now. I can see Nocmen knowing how the role works (hiding behind a target that is killed, the hider dies as well), but not a small detail about it (hiding behind scum ALSO kills) which isn't universal.

In fact, I find it more suspicious that farside22 DIDN'T know about it not being universal. I did, and my join date is 2008. Someone from 2007 would've been around to have seen those less-standard Hiders. (But this is for the farside case.)

Calcifer's post 132: A list of who he thinks is scum and town, with out reasoning behind much of that. But for a lot of it, I'm concerned due to the fact that many of them seem as repeats of the popular opinion at the time.
-cut-
Ion's vote on Bub - out of the blue, very concerning.

Furc saw hypocrisy. I only saw one or two people reading Ion's vote on Bub as being concerning. A lot of people asked about it and were curious (naturally--we should be. But there's a difference between being curious and being concerned), but I only remember one or two people (me initially among them but later not) who actually found it concerning (as in, possibly worthy of suspicion--most of the people curious found it to not be). So, not very hypocritical at all.

Zdenek tells a blatant lie about Nocmen. (More on that in the Zdenek case. This is just the Nocmen defense, for now.) Why is it a lie?

I feel like zd put a bit too much in his post where he voted Bub, trying to create reasons when he just wanted to wagon.

^That. He had a zdenek suspicion earlier, and explained why.

I find Nocmen not giving reason's and this is the second time I caught him just floating by without explain things. What do you agree with and why.

unvote:
vote: Nocmen

Farside also makes this exact same 'mistake', despite Flinter explaining it above. Oh, and also worthy of mentioning is how she's choosing Nocmen over, oh, say, Zdenek, someone she doesn't address. (But more on that later, on the Zdenek/Farside cases.)

And all of that is why Nocmen is town.

One down, something like six or seven to go.

[Furcolow]

We get more information out of Pine or Cecily
Pappums rat added to the list of people this game that have taken a solid stance over that interaction

Zdenek cutting the quote has seen many stances taken as well. I would facepalm is Farside made it as obvious as this if they are scum.

[Tasky]

VOTECOUNT 1.8

Cecily (5/11): Twistedspoon, Thor665, Nocmen, Pine, Furcolow
Bub Bidderskins (3/11): evilpacman18, Magister Ludi, Ion67
Zdenek (3/11): flinter, pappums rat, Calcifer
Pine (2/11): Bub Bidderskins, Cecily
Ctorj49 (2/11): Acronach, Zombeh-Pug
Nocmen (2/11): Zdenek, farside22
Twistedspoon (1/11): Caboose
Acronach (1/11): Gollum


Not Voting (2): TheJakalope, Ctorj49

With 21 alive it takes 11 to lynch.

Base-Time ends 29.04.2011, 22:00 CET

[Acronach]

ctorj, please answer this.

Also, I'm not a big typer. Being new to ms, I should let you know that off the bat. This is as long as my posts get.

okay

seeing as this is your first post since your RVS vote, care to share some of your thoughts and reads with us?

what are the 3 scummiest things you've seen so far?

Being new to the MS world (which is VERY different to the mafia games I'm used to participating), I find these 3 things suspicious though I will admit they are more culture-shock points on my end:
1. Listing a table to see who's scummiest. This is a game of wits and instinct. No math equation in the world will tell you who's scum. period.
2. Insisting someone is scum for sure ON DAY ONE WITH NO NIGHT ONE! Seriously, how can anyone be 100% sure?

I know that's only 2. That's what I got so far. Everything else is just trying to get a feel for people's playing styles.

epicmafia? if so, could you link your profile please?

[pappums rat]

Hey Tasky, could you give some people some prods? There are people in this game that have not posted for 5 and 6 days. In fact, I think a mass-prod may be in order, this game is suffering from a serious lack of participation.

Acronach, what is your opinion on Zdenek and Pine? You have been tunneling Ctorj pretty hard for quite some time, without really giving opinions on anyone else.

[Twistedspoon]

@Ion and Jackalope: I've hardly heard from you, can you give us your reads and 3 scummiest things you've read so far please

[Tasky]

Hey Tasky, could you give some people some prods? There are people in this game that have not posted for 5 and 6 days. In fact, I think a mass-prod may be in order, this game is suffering from a serious lack of participation.

I already sent out a mass prod yesterday, where I gave people time until today to post. If those people haven't posted in the next hours, I will sent them a "last-chance" prod.

[Twistedspoon]

The nocmen case of calcifer's does satisfy me. The hider part is convincing enough

I wasn't going to vote him anyways though

[Calcifer]

Bub's next. (And then Cecily. <_<) This'll be fun. :/

Come on CJMiller...

This might just be personal preference, but when I'm scum in the pre-game, I'd say this in the Mafia Quicktopic--even if CJMiller isn't a member.

If the night choices are crappy, then you know I'm scum.

A bold statement. I know that I tend to not mention how I play as scum, when I'm actually scum.

Hey Cecily! Remember me? You know what I'm talking about

Interacts with others. Another personal choice thing; I'd do that in the QT instead of public. Even if Cecily wasn't there. ("Looking forward to playing with Cecily again. Cecily'll remember. " or something like that.)

@Magister Ludi: What do those questions have to do with Mafia?

More than that, he also starts some of the first questioning in the game, making him among the first to try and exit the RVS. ("What about Thor?" Was it obvious at the time of his post that he was serious, not joking? Not really. I could tell, but it took me a moment to realize it--lots of people probably thought his post was a random vote. )

Quillford (now Caboose) also random-votes Bub. (Twisted did so as well.)

Bub points out an apparent contradiction in Acro's posts--saying Evil's third party, yet not voting him.

"Why doesn't he correct Acro about the Hider role?" Or other similar questions like that?

Simple: Because he sees a contradiction and is pointing it out as being suspicious. What Evil is, he doesn't need to say--that's not the issue. What's important is how he perceived Acro's opinion and Acro's actions, and saw that they seemingly didn't match.

So, there was nothing wrong with Bub's post.

I don't understand your logic. Now you're saying that he's town or third party, but before you said you were willing to lynch him at deadline. What are you trying to say here, that he's a better lynch because he claimed hider (because of the possibility of him being third party)?

Same thing here. What he thinks EPM is has no significance. What is important is what he sees in Acro--he sees Acro saying multiple things which seem to conflict which each other, and that's worthy of his suspicion. Seems like legitimate scumhunting.

I think Bub's reasons for getting on the Acronach wagon were pretty poor.

Expresses Bub suspicion. (More on this in the Zdenek case.)

The objective of my vote was to get a bandwagon going out of the RVS. That objective has been fulfilled.

He states his reasons for the vote, and they line up with his actions. His conclusion does, too.

While acro's reasons are poor, I don't read them as scummy. I just think he's fresh from epicmafia and locked into that site's meta.

But why are you questioning your own wagon?

An excellent catch, a very good pro-town thought process. (And that is something I'll be going into in my Zdenek case.)

(Sorry. I wish I were better at defending Bub, but it's kinda hard to do.)

(Ludi and Ion both join the Bub wagon at this stage. Somewhere earlier, EPM joined as well, but I can't find it.)

Then right after bub's post(7 minutes) he makes another fluff post.
Posting multiple times saying he's reading the thread seems like he's trying to get some townie points.

While Zombeh (now Bunny) is a weak scum read, it's still a scumread, nonetheless, meaning that Zombeh's suspicion of Bub is reason to make me not suspicious of Bub.

I don't like Bub's read on Twistedspoon: he's playing like town, he has a vibe of honesty, but I'm going with null. It just seems like he's trying to justify not voting for Twistedspoon, but keeping his options open to get on vote for him later if necessary.

Also, his reasons for voting Acronach were "much better than random" but now he's going with pressuring a lurker as soon as that wagon starts to fall apart.

Unvote
Vote Bub

More on this later in the Zdenek case. But essentially, this is jumping onto the wagon at its most opportunistic moment. Bub also addresses Zdenek's reasons listed here in a later post, too.

Still waiting on Ludi's explanation as to how his questions can give meaningful results. Until then I will reserve judgment as to his alignment.

Following through and insisting on an answer to something he asked for pages ago which was posted near the start--that has the town-feel to it.
There's also his stubbornness in regards to his vote. That refusal to back down would be detrimental as scum.

Bud - weak vote for Acro (arco mentioned the 3rd party way before Bud's vote on him, but he ignores it and jumps on the post of Arch not voting Pacmen.

Vote: Bud

That's two of my main scumspects on Bub, one of my weaker ones on Bub...yeah, Bub's looking an awful lot like a convenient scum mislynch. I also fail to see the contradiction farside is talking about.

My other head's read on Bub (he said Bub's town; I'll stick by it until he tells me that read is gone), the fact that he was tied for lead wagon, the fact that his wagon looks incredibly scum-driven, the fact that looking at where Bub's vote was placed made me feel better about him (It's hard to explain this one), his lynch gives virtually zero information regardless of his alignment (I would have trouble picking the advantageous scum from the mislead town if he was town, and wouldn't be able to gain who his scumbuddies were if he WAS scum), you get the idea.

ALL of these still hold true. And all are quite valid, in my opinion, as to why Bub should not die today.

Bud questions nomen's vote but never progress or says anything further. I don't see the point of asking a question and going no further. Basically I see this as light comments made with no follow through means not trying to make a link.

There really wasn't a need to. Why? Because Nocmen answered, and there was nothing more to say on the matter.

His reason's for finding Ludi town are weak and total on the basis of some questions that I answered more do to personal reason's then anything else. I don't see how asking questions and coming up with something like Ludi who hasn't really done much with it = town.

This also fails, because I also concluded that Ludi was without a doubt town after Ludi explained the reasons for the questions. (Once more, you'll be seeing lots of this in the farside22 case. This is simply the Bub defense.)

Two down.

[Thor665]

Unvote: Cecily
Vote: Zdenek

I reserve the right to later go rushing back to Cecily, and also reserve the right that if she later flips scum to go 'nyaah-nyaah' in Calcifer's face. That slot is still terribad, but I want to play out this wagon.

@Calcifer - I like the Nocman=town case, though I think it's sloppy to suggest that all three of the scumteam were pushing on one player. There was probably at least one of the scumteam calling him town at that time, yeah? Neutral on the Bub=town case.

[pappums rat]

Here are my reads as of now:

Town- Caboose, Thor, Calcifer, Cecily, Bub, Furcolow
Townish- evilpacman18, nocmen
Scummy- Acronach, farside22
Scum- Zdenek, Pine, Bunnylover

Everyone else is null.

[Calcifer]

And now, we do Cecily. (This'll be the hardest defense to do. Pine, I can defend. Quite well. TOO well. )

VOTE: cecily

(Farside replaced kcd.) Random vote, sure, but still enough to peak my interest.

Cecily, like Nocmen, enters the game pretty late.

Twisted votes Cecily for not partaking in the RVS, but that seems like a misconception--we were past the RVS, but not yet in a full stage of playing. We were in the bridge between RVS and serious scumhunting, and I took Cecily's post to mean that there wasn't much point in partaking in that stage. Which I understand.

This is coasting through the early game without stating opinions.

Oh, hey, two of my scumreads on Cecily! (...One was a random vote, but, hey, close enough! )

@twisted, if we were still in rvs I'd vote rvs, but I feel like I got in too late to post a real rvs without people then calling me out for not actually contributing.

Relevant, because Cecily's right--
Look what happened to poor Ctorj.

Bub acts like that in every game.

Defense of Bub (unless you want to go into the opinion of a Bub-Cecily scumteam, which will glue my palm to my face) is a pro-town move.

Cecily doesn't come out and call Bub town though, no, just justifies his actions.

It seemed implied heavily enough that this doesn't really hold valid.

You're scum because you've done absolutely nothing that is helpful to town and yet you are attacking people even though you're not scumhunting.

Several people were guilty of this at the time, really.

: I do not have reads on people yet and am not performiong any actions to help me get those reads - I'm letting other people do all the work and acting like it makes me a...well, at least a "less annoying" player.

This seems more like lazy-town rather than scum.

I personally love rvs, but hate the stage (this stage) that comes right after it. From my experience it's a bunch of people putting words into peoples mouths and misreading and misunderstanding. I will not be sucked in by your attempt to get me to vote prematurely.

Cecily Reasserts that we were in a stage before true scumhunting, but after the rvs, that transition stage. And--come on--think about it: we all know it exists, that it's real. And just like with the RVS, I find nothing wrong with the different take towards it. (Yes, it's slightly different, and I'd prefer people contributing at that stage, but it's still a transition and people acting differently isn't scummy--just different.)

All you've seen that is worthy of you commenting on it is that hydras can be "obnoxious" and something that happened during confirmation?

More Cecily suspicion, more reason for me to think Cecily is town.

Cecily's 202 is a strong vote, with very logical reasons compared to most Pine voters. Wrong (as I'll explain in my Pine case), but still solid in comparison.

Cecily's defense of CJ in #151 is unwarranted and scummy

Not really. Cecily was entering the game at the time, and gave a read--while not needed (as people had pretty much universally concluded that already), it was pretty null. When catching up, I tend to post a lot of obsolete information.

Thor votes Cecily. (Second vote, I believe.)

I have my scum reads based on certain post that rang false or panic.

Cecily -

Oh, look, another one of my suspects on Cecily! How convenient! Speaking of her,

I still need to gather notes for Cec after work

Farside:

I don't recall seeing these. Post them, please? (Or if you did, link me to your post as I clearly missed it.)

Cecily: Another person I am reading as bad town, although I would be happy with a lynch here, as they are bad

Bad town, yes. Scum, no. You don't lynch bad town. They're town, who contribute an opinion, even if they don't do so as frequently as you would like. You lynch scum, not scummy town.

Not liking Cecily's 194, seems like to warrant an excuse for lurking (which I know, pot kettle, etc), but I have to at least put it out there. The issue is , Cecily, that I'm not seeing too much content right now from you, and it seems like you are extremely unproductive. And many of the reasons you voted for Pine can be applied to a vote for you.

However, once more I'd like to remind you that just because someone isn't contributing as much as you like doesn't mean they're scum. In this case, Cecily wasn't justifying lurking--Cecily's activity has picked up, recently. The lack of content was due to what Cecily saw as a transition she had no need to partake in. And while not an opinion I agree with, it's not an opinion which makes her scum. (That's three votes for Cecily, by the way.)

Pine votes Cecily, and is the fourth to do so.

ctually I reread Cecily and he moved to null. He took the time to look into Pine.
Problems I have with Cecily is he hasn't said much about who he finds scummy except to point out the active lurker.

More on this in my farside case, but this, paraphrased, is "Cecily looks null, but looks suspicious for not having suspicions." Contradiction.

This seems to me more like an excuse for a lazy and haphazard read-through and post.

Funnily enough?
I was thinking Cecily was just lazy town. The fact that Cecily's first conclusion upon reading that post was lazy (but not scummy) play, this all-but confirms that Cecily was, indeed, lazy, and gives me a strong reason to believe Cecily was therefore town.

2 thumbs up. I felt like I was reading Randy from American Idol, but the storyline has a good flow.

Cecily: How is your only scum read on a player that is barely posting and you took the time to check into him posting elsewhere, but say nothing about anyone else?

Yup. Totally a neutral read, farside.

Furcolow also joins the Cecily wagon. (5)

I, personally,

am not

wasn't

opposed to a Cecily lynch. It'd generate

a ton of information

enough information to be salvageable

, many people have Cecily as a suspect compared to very few having Cecily as a town read, with many more having Cecily somewhere in the middle.
However, I will not advocate for Cecily's death, either. There are better suspects out there than Cecily, there ARE some people with Cecily as a town-read, and Cecily gives off the feeling (call it instinct if you must) of being a Compromise-lynch, someone people are voting for not because Cecily's even close to their top suspect, but simply because they see support for a Cecily lynch.

And in my experience, most Compromise Lynches tend to be on town. :/

Updated to be accurate. Cecily's death might generate information, but it'll be a HECK of a lot harder for me to get it. Whereas with my three, it flows quite naturally.

More or less,

As I mentioned before, Cecily is not a TERRIBLE lynch...but there are FAR better options out there and I will be rather upset if Cecily's lynched as a compromise.

Admittedly? Cecily COULD be scum. But Cecily's lynch gives us

NO

VERY little

information other than Cecily's alignment. Who is Cecily connected to, if scum? Who would be bussing Cecily, if scum? Who would be easy-wagoning Cecily, if town? I can't figure that out

easily

with a Cecily lynch, whereas I CAN figure it out with a lynch of any of the three I mention. Simply put, Cecily gives me no additional information

immediately

, whereas Farside, Zdenek, AND Gollum all do.

If they [Cecily/Bub] die, what do I gain? I gain nothing. I know nothing more than I did the day before. Oh, I'll know the alignment of them, and I'll know the alignment of any killed during the night phase, sure. But the interactions, the information gained, for both Cecily and Bub? Quite frankly sucks. It's horrible how little this lynch will profit us.
-Low chance of hitting scum.
-Low information gain, regardless of flip.

I see no significant informational gain. I see nothing which will scream if either of them are scum/town, that "PERSON X IS SCUM!" Or even, "THIS GUY'S TOWN!" I DO see that in Zdenek/Gollum/Farside.

Sensing a pattern? Still quite valid. Cecily is NOT a good lynch wagon. (Neither is Bub, for that matter.)

Okay. Three down, one to go! (Then I start my scum cases. :/)

[Twistedspoon]

Is this all Mastin or Nacho?

[Calcifer]

@Calcifer - I like the Nocman=town case, though I think it's sloppy to suggest that all three of the scumteam were pushing on one player. There was probably at least one of the scumteam calling him town at that time, yeah?

~Five scum in the game, Thor. Only three of which were pushing said player. (And that's assuming all three are. Two of them, definitely, but it's not necessarily [although I do believe it to be] all three.)

Starting on Pine, now. I might not finish it before I have to leave. But it'll get done.

(

Edit:

It's me, Twisted. Nacho's [alarmingly] still absent.)

[Bunnylover]

Why doesn't Zdenek have more votes?
What Flinter says in his post number 341
And the above of Calcifer defense of Noc combined with the attack on Zdenek is enough of a reason for me to vote.

Vote: Zdenek

[Calcifer]

You'd THINK Pine's lack of posting would make this the shortest of my cases. Far from it, actually. For multiple reasons:
-Others' interactions with Pine.
-Meta. I know, trying to Meta Pine was disastrous last game I was in with him, but it's for that very same reason that I think I've got it down better today.

Acro starts off the Pine-hate by voting Pine for not posting.

Interesting note, is how Thor defends Pine in 50.

Ack. Had not realized we started. I think I opened the PM and promptly forgot.

This pretty much confirms Pine as town. If he was scum, he would've known exactly when the game had begun. Why?

Because mods shut down pre-game mafia chat at that time. And I've seen Pine as scum. He'd have talked in the Mafia QT. A lot.

His not having realized the game had begun indicates that Pine is, in fact, town.
There's more to this than just that, but I'd rather not explain in further detail.

Only third party allowed in Normal games is SK.

He drops in to say this--legitimately useful advice to Acro at the time. (Interestingly enough, I know why Pine knows this. )

-Caboose does not approve of my town-read on Pine.

and there appears to be no urgency

Know what this translates to?
Lethargy. Pine had no motivation to come in and post, and pretty much flat-out says as much.
"Ha, lurking scum!" You say.
No, not from Pine. Look at "There Will Be Bloodshed", where he was among (if not being) the most active players. He said that he's more active as scum. And I've seen him as both alignments--he was not lying. Scum-Pine was hyperactive. Town-Pine is more active than normal.
"But he's neither this game! What is he, then?"

Still town. Because lethargy doesn't happen to scum. At least, not to Pine-scum. Not immediately after a great victory in TWBBS. If this game were a couple months later? Yeah, I can see that happening, maybe. But now? Right now, when he has just had the adrenaline rush of a scum victory, when he has experienced the sweet taste of victory, that thrill ride of being active scum and so thoroughly fooling everyone?

He's not going to blow it all by lurking. He might not be as excited, but he wouldn't be this bad at posting. Simply put, Pine isn't posting because he doesn't feel the need to, because he's not scum, anymore, and has no obligation to avoid being scummy.

Most likely, the reason he's inactive? Because he's stretched out into too many games at a time he has limited access.

And at worst, that's null, not scum.

Again, I will elaborate if needed, but would prefer not to.


Bub is the second Pine vote in the game, and the first to remain. Cecily's the second long-term vote on Pine. As I mentioned, it was a good post from Cecily, but Cecily's wrong.

I agree at this point with a pine wagon, because not only his lack of posting here, but his excessive posting in other threads.

In my experience, this suggests the opposite: town, with a lack of interest.

Scum pine hides from questions with indications that he'll be back later and yet never returns.

Quite the opposite, Pine's been answering questions when he does return.

Have to leave, like, right now, but will resume later.

[Ion67]

I reserve the right to later go rushing back to Cecily, and also reserve the right that if she later flips scum to go 'nyaah-nyaah' in Calcifer's face. That slot is still terribad, but I want to play out this wagon.

This would make me vote you, but another line seems scummier to me...

In the mean time, Unvote, Vote: Zdenek. Looks like this'll get more support than a Gollum lynch. :/

I don't care how much you defended your point after this post, I don't understand what would even make you THINK about posting this. It is basically saying that you will support a lynch, even if you don't believe it? Can you explain?




__

Tags fixed. Tasky

[Ion67]

Sweet...forgot the vote
VOTE: Calcifer

[Calcifer]

Don't have enough time to finish the Pine case before I leave again. However, to Ion, I have an abbreviation which comes to mind. Only reason I don't say "RTFT" is 'cause I'm too polite.
But I WILL say this--
If you were paying attention, you'd know why I was voting.

This is the same exact kind of thing I just defended other players from.

[Furcolow]

People aren't used to a day with this much information floating around.

[Bunnylover]

I reserve the right to later go rushing back to Cecily, and also reserve the right that if she later flips scum to go 'nyaah-nyaah' in Calcifer's face. That slot is still terribad, but I want to play out this wagon.

This would make me vote you, but another line seems scummier to me...

In the mean time, Unvote, Vote: Zdenek. Looks like this'll get more support than a Gollum lynch. :/

I don't care how much you defended your point after this post, I don't understand what would even make you THINK about posting this. It is basically saying that you will support a lynch, even if you don't believe it? Can you explain?




__

Tags fixed. Tasky

But he/they said that Zdenek was a scum read. So wouldn't that mean he believes in it?

[Nocmen]

Unvote: Cecily
Vote: Zdenek

I reserve the right to later go rushing back to Cecily, and also reserve the right that if she later flips scum to go 'nyaah-nyaah' in Calcifer's face. That slot is still terribad, but I want to play out this wagon.

@Calcifer - I like the Nocman=town case, though I think it's sloppy to suggest that all three of the scumteam were pushing on one player. There was probably at least one of the scumteam calling him town at that time, yeah? Neutral on the Bub=town case.

Are you saying you know scum numbers?

[Thor665]

@Nocmen - With the current activity levels I started to think I must be playing a 12 man game and hence expected a 3 man scumteam. (and to clarify - No.)

@Ion - welcome to Vigbait is you territory, enjoy the weather, forecasts call for sporadic lead showers. Ask Cecily where the best cover is, I'm sure she visits every game. Oh, and your vote is lolfail right now, you might want to fix that.

@Calcifer - cute enough analysis of Cecily - why did you ignore my reason for voting her considering how much you defend her initial play I personally think my reason for voting her should appear significantly stronger in your eyes.

[Ion67]

@Thor - No clue what any of your post meant (the part that was directed at me)

Calcifer did back up their reasoning, but that initial statement really hit me.