Mini 1145 — Plain Mafia (over)

[Quilford]

'Obviously Quilford doesn't have any real points on me.'
You're pathetic.
VOTE: ICEninja
Nobody pulls that scumtell anymore.
Ranger and Kitty, we're waiting on your thoughts.

[Zodiark13]

Incoming Vote Count

Vote Count

ICEninja [L-1] - Quilford, Valern,

Quilford [L-3] -

RangeroftheNorth - [L-3]

Valern [L-3] -

DeathRowKitty [L-3] -

WARNING: A PLAYER IS CURRENTLY AT L-1. BE AWARE OF THIS AS YOU PLACE YOUR VOTES

Not Voting: ICEninja, RangeroftheNorth, DeathRowKitty

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Current Deadline

Other:
Please bold V/LA announcements.[/area]

[ICEninja]

'Obviously Quilford doesn't have any real points on me.'
You're pathetic.

So you're trying to hide the fact that you don't have any valid points against me with ad hominem. Great.

Still waiting on the 2 obvtowns.

[Quilford]

they've been posted

you haven't defended against them

or your defense is so wafer thin I can karate chop it with my tears

[RangeroftheNorth]

Alright, sorry for the delay.

I re-read everything today, and my case on Valern really isn't very good.

I've been getting a very strong pro-town read from Ice all game, and that hasn't changed. That said, I can see the points Quilford and Valern have made. If we go to lylo tomorrow, I'll take another very good look at him, but right now, I don't think he's the best lynch for today.

I think Quilford is most likely our last scum. What Ice said about crazy's self-hammer makes sense. If he was trying to use it to prove his own innocence, I wouldn't take it seriously, but I think its worth pursuing. Considering I don't have very good reasons to think Valern is scum, I'm almost certain that DRK is town, and Ice seems really town to me, Quilford seems like the best bet for today.

Vote: Quilford

[Quilford]

hey, if it helps you narrow down the pool further, I'm fine with being lynched

also just watch ice place down his vote now that you've placed down yours

Ranger, I'm going to go have to read you in ISO.

[Valern]

Here's where Quilford!Scum doesn't add up for me, and I kept quiet about this for long enough to make sure that this is really the case.

I am only willing to lynch ICE today (or myself, in order to prove my towniness and ensure that I get listened to and ICE gets lynched tomorrow.)
Quilford appears to only be willing to lynch ICE today, and has hardly said one word about me, the only other viable lynch for the day from his perspective. (PEDIT: And also seems to be willing to sacrifice himself.)

ICE, on the other hand, is the only person of dubious alignment who is keeping his options open. And as the last scum left, that's because he has no

choice

but to "suspect" both of us.

Quilford is not acting like the last scum the day before LYLO. ICE is.

Lynch it plz.

[RangeroftheNorth]

I see what you're saying, but I don't see how that makes Quilford town. If he were scum, he'd know he would have a much better chance in lylo if he got Ice lynched today.

[Quilford]

my case against peabody was effectively disproven

watch out VCA incoming

[ICEninja]

Valern, I realize that I am the only one of us 3 who is "leaving my options open", but I am simply being honest. If i was lynched today, I would flip town and I have no doubt whatsoever that you and Quilford will be at each other's throats to win for your side. Based on the current lineup, I know I am not scum. I'm almost positive DRK is not scum. I'm fairly confident Ranger is not scum. I'm not sure about you. I think Quilford is scum.

Obviously, I'm going to see him lynched today. By the unlikelyhood that the game isn't over, You're the next most likely answer. It is neither scummy nor bad play to be "leaving my options open". Instead, I'd be lying if I said I thought you town. If the game doesn't end tonight, I'd simply vote you tomorrow based on process of elimination, which is most of the reason why you're voting me anyway.

also just watch ice place down his vote now that you've placed down yours

Since you are probably going to be today's lynch, barring DRK suddenly thinking I'm town, this is obviously the correct move. You trying to make it look like a scummy action does not make it a scummy action. I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Vote Quilford

.

The ball is in your court, DRK.

[Quilford]

Since you are probably going to be today's lynch, barring DRK suddenly thinking I'm town, this is obviously the correct move. You trying to make it look like a scummy action does not make it a scummy action. I'm pretty sure you're scum.

Vote Quilford

.

The ball is in your court, DRK.

I'm merely wondering why you didn't vote before RotN.

"barring DRK suddenly thinking I'm town"
Excuse me, but DRK doesn't have to vote for either me or you. She could vote for Valern, or RotN.

Anyway, no hammering before I post my VCA, please.

[Quilford]

Somehow this derailed into a bit of a VCA.

lynchking

(1) - Lucresia
Lucresia (1) - DRK

EA

(1) -

AMP

Peabody

(3) - RotN,

EA

,

Pine

Pine

(1) -

Romanus

Not voting:

lynchking

, ICEninja,

Trendall

,

Peabody

, Valern

lynchking

(1) - Lucresia
Lucresia (4) - DRK,

EA

, RotN, Valern

EA

(2) -

AMP

, ICEninja

Peabody

(1) -

Pine

Pine

(1) -

Romanus

Not voting:

lynchking

,

Trendall

,

Peabody

Lucresia (5) - DRK,

EA

, RotN, Valern,

lynchking

EA

(2) -

AMP

, ICEninja

Peabody

(1) -

Pine

Pine

(1) -

Romanus

Not voting:

Trendall

,

Peabody

, Lucresia

lynchking

(1) - ICEninja
ICEninja (4) -

Romanus

,

Trendall

,

EA

, Valern
Lucresia (1) -

lynchking

EA

(1) -

AMP

Valern (1) - DRK
Not voting:

Peabody

, Lucresia,

Pine

, RotN


ICEninja (4) -

Romanus

,

Trendall

,

EA

, Valern
Lucresia (1) -

lynchking

EA

(1) -

AMP

Valern (2) - DRK, ICEninja

Pine

(2) - Lucresia,

Peabody

Not voting:

Pine

, RotN


ICEninja (2) -

Trendall

, Valern

EA

(1) -

AMP

Valern (1) - ICEninja

Pine

(2) - Lucresia,

Peabody

Peabody

(1) -

Pine

AMP

(1) -

EA

Trendall

(3) - DRK,

DYoshi

, RotN
Not voting:

Romanus

ICEninja (1) -

Trendall

EA

(1) -

Meransiel

Valern (2) - ICEninja, DRK

Pine

(2) - Lucresia,

Peabody

Peabody

(1) -

Pine

Meransiel

(1) -

EA

Trendall

(3) -

DYoshi

, RotN, Valern
Not voting:

crazy

EA

(1) -

Meransiel

Valern (3) - ICEninja, DRK,

Trendall

Pine

(1) - Lucresia

Trendall

(6) -

DYoshi

, RotN, Valern,

EA

,

Peabody

,

Pine

Not voting:

crazy

EA

(1) -

inHim

Valern (3) - ICEninja, DRK,

Trendall

Pine

(1) - Lucresia

Trendall

(2) - Valern,

EA

Peabody

(4) -

DYoshi

,

crazy

, RotN,

Pine

Not voting:

Peabody

Valern (1) -

Trendall

Pine

(1) - Lucresia

Trendall

(3) - Valern,

EA

, DRK

Peabody

(4) -

DYoshi

,

crazy

, RotN,

Pine

Not voting:

Peabody

,

inHim

, ICEninja


Valern (1) -

Trendall

Pine

(1) - Quilford

Trendall

(6) - Valern,

EA

, DRK, ICEninja, RotN,

crazy

Peabody

(2) -

DYoshi

,

Pine

Not voting:

Peabody

,

inHim

Valern (1) -

Trendall

Trendall

(7) - Valern,

EA

, ICEninja, RotN,

crazy

, Quilford,

DYoshi

Peabody

(2) -

Pine

, DRK
Not voting:

Peabody

,

inHim

--END OF D1--

Peabody

(1) - RotN

inHim

(3) -

EA

,

Peabody

, Quilford
Not voting:

crazy

, ICEninja, DRK,

inHim

, Valern

inHim

(3) -

EA

,

Peabody

, Quilford

crazy

(1) - Valern
Not voting:

crazy

, ICEninja, DRK,

inHim

, RotN

inHim

(4) -

EA

, Quilford, RotN,

Peabody

Not voting:

crazy

, ICEninja, DRK,

inHim

, Valern

inHim

(5) -

EA

, Quilford, RotN,

Peabody

, Valern
Not voting: ICEninja, DRK,

inHim

--END OF D2--

crazy

(3) - RotN,

Peabody

, Quilford
Not voting:

crazy

, ICEninja, Valern, DRK

crazy

(4) - RotN,

Peabody

, Quilford,

crazy

Not voting: ICEninja, Valern, DRK


--END OF D3--



Okay, so: here it is. I'll probably draw upon it later, feel free to use it for evidence.

[DeathRowKitty]

I think those vote counts say Valern is scum.

(yeah, yeah, I know. this game is second on my list of immediate mafia-related priorities atm)

[Valern]

No.

No no no no no no no.

We are NOT losing this because you two are too blinded to see the obvious ICE scum in front of you. IT'S SO FUCKING OBVIOUS A WOEFJaWGJeLKGjLKSGJ WLKGJ.

Vote me out. Watch me flip town. And then DO AS I FUCKING SAY and kill ICE.

DO IT.

vote: Valern

[Quilford]

DRK, thoughts WITHOUT HAMMERING? (I've got a big post in the works)

[ICEninja]

Either Valern is a severely misguided townie or is doing a scum gambit in effort to have me lynched tomorrow. I'm leaning towards misguided townie, but it's hard to be sure.

I think those vote counts say Valern is scum.

You need to say a

lot

more than that.

[Quilford]

ICE, why would I bus my scumbuddies in my first posts of the game?

What you did is you called your scum buddy "slightly leaning scum" (AKA FoS) and called town pine "SCUMMITY SCUM SCUM" or something like that, and voted him. This sure looks like the absolutely classic distancing attempt of "FoS scum buddy, vote townie".

you mean like this?

Crazy's defense of inHim makes me more suspicious of both inHim and Crazy, both of whom were already high on my scum list. I will give inHim another day to post, but if he doesn't post tomorrow (today? Wednesday, at any rate) I'm going to vote him anyway.

Expected response: "You didn't have Crazy and inHim high on your scum list."
My response: Excepting Pine, they were the only ones on my scum list. And Pine was dead.

NO THIS DOES NOT MEAN I AM ACCUSING ROTN
DON'T EVEN GO THERE

Oh no! Someone is lying in a way that's completely obvious and intentional about something barely game-related at all! He must be scum!

Sarcasm doesn't make my point invalid.

He answered my questions before without stupid responses before, very different then his recent answers.

What could have changed since then? His role, possibly.

Be useful and vote Lucresia.

You're telling me to vote someone whom you haven't even made a case against. Why should I vote him?

Is your vote on Erratus serious or a joke?

It is as serious a vote as I can think of making with the information we currently possess.

ICE later goes onto say that his vote on EA was all trying to get us out of RVS, but considering that AMP was already voting for EA and the fact that the bolded sentences don't really point to that conclusion, I think ICE was merely trying to bandwagon.
Expected response: "At that point, we still weren't out of RVS yet."
My response: Peabody had 3 votes on him ('NERVOUS SCUM", etc.) and Lucresia had already started to scumtell. We were certainly out of RVS.

You know what else changed? The game environment.

Perhaps. I don't see how it would have changed sufficiently to alter his answers so dramatically, however.

That being said, I see your reasons for voting Lucresia, and they're fairly sound for page 2.

Okay Columbo, what's my motive for lying then?

I don't know. Perhaps you'd want to be treated differently?

My ability to take that sort of shit seriously ran out. That's what changed.

Oh my. You've gotten grumpier since 1133.

Funny, I remember you being such a positive force for town fairly quickly there. I'm not seeing it here quite so much, save maybe in 43.

This, in particular, I agree with:

The accusation that DRK is hiding something is ridiculous. DRK puts up the first case of the game, that means he's hiding something? Poor deflection here.

One thing additionally that I noticed from Lucretia is this:

I answered the questions from ICE because although it isn't useful in my opinion, I have nothing to hide or harm by answering it.

I feel like this is more about trying to look town than anything else. Suspicious.

I'm considering joining the Lucretia wagon.

I'll need to see how she responds to it.

This entire post seems to be about easing out of the EA wagon and onto Lucresia: the bolded seems to serve as a tension-breaker; the italics as stuff she uses to back up her assertion that "I'm considering joining the Lucretia wagon." Honestly, she'd just provided and acknowledged more evidence regarding Lucresia than she did about EA.
Expected response: "I did say 'I'll need to see how she responds to it.'"
My response: There was only one vote on her at that time. There was no harm in you placing another.

That possibility had entered my thoughts. Notice that my vote is not on you. I'll have a look at your meta sometime to see how concerned you are with appearance as town.

Empty promise; there was never any meta analysis.
Expected response: "I forgot."
My response: "Not an excuse."



At the height of ICE's wagon:

If this isn't a scum fueled bandwagon, then I don't know what is.

There are exactly zero justified votes on me. I wonder which one is the most likely scum?

after hunting around in ICE's meta:
ICE as scum

This wagon on me is getting fishier by the moment.

Everyone needs to seriously consider why they're voting me.

ICE as town... doesn't really post these sort of comments.
This is scum trying to attack their bandwagon so nobody gets on.

While I like the fact that Ranger is voting Trendall, something about it bugs me. I don't know why, but for some reason I don't like the way he voted him. I'll do some closer reading of Ranger's play and what has been said about Ranger recently to try to figure out why this is bugging me.

Another empty promise.


I'm disconcerted that quite a lot of ICE's posts are lurker-tunnelling. Take a look at ICE's ISO: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... lect=12670
#9, #10, #11, #17, #19, #20 (sorta), #26, #30 (sorta), #31 (sorta), #35, #37, #55 (sorta) and #57 all contain attacks on lurkers/flakers.


I'm also interested in that GreyICE was pushing Valern so hard, but pulls a flip and says that I am scum now. Take a look at the ISO linked above; you'll see that despite ICE saying she has more points against me, it certainly doesn't look like it.

[Quilford]

I'm leaning towards misguided townie

Of course you are. Strange, considering how much you bring up against him in your ISO.

[Quilford]

inHim

(3) -

EA

,

Peabody

, Quilford

crazy

(1) - Valern
Not voting:

crazy

, ICEninja, DRK,

inHim

, RotN

This points to Valern not being scum.

Both inHim and crazy flipped goon, so I see no real reason why Valern would feel the need to start up a different wagon on crazy.

If crazy had flipped roleblocker now that would be a different matter.

[Quilford]

also I'd be mighty interested to hear why everyone considers ICE townie

[ICEninja]

you mean like this?

The situations were so completely and radically different, so no. Not like this. You distanced from a scum buddy. He was agreeing with a wagon.

ICE later goes onto say that his vote on EA was all trying to get us out of RVS, but considering that AMP was already voting for EA and the fact that the bolded sentences don't really point to that conclusion, I think ICE was merely trying to bandwagon.

Seriously. Go read the game up to that point. If you can think of a better reason to vote someone based on the information we had at the time, then please show it to me. It was a serious vote in that it wasn't based on someone's name, avatar, random.org, or something else equally useless. No votes placed in the first few pages are as serious as a vote placed to lynch someone on page 10. The fact that you're pushing this is

ridiculous

.

This entire post seems to be about easing out of the EA wagon and onto Lucresia

I was never really on an "EA wagon", as there were never very many votes on him. I simply prompted him to action, and which point he got very grumpy indeed. He is an unpleasant person to play with. It is not at all against my character (alignment neutral) to point out when someone is being unpleasant to play with. It wasn't a "tension breaker" or any crap like that. He was just getting on my nerves.

Of course I was talking about the Lucresia wagon, as it was the wagon that had the most merit at that point in time. Was I convinced she was scum? Absolutely not. Was there potential for it? Sure. Worth the comment. This says nothing of my alignment.

Empty promise; there was never any meta analysis.

It was no longer necessary. Plus, this wouldn't be the first time town-ICE has promised to read someone's meta and never followed through with it. It's a lot of work to do correctly, as you obviously didn't do when you did your little meta-dirt-throwing.

I'm terrible as scum. I'll admit it. So when you go look at the wagons placed on scum-ICE in those games, they're more or less valid, save Javert's case against me in my more recent scum game. I was squirming under pressure of people who had reasons to vote me. This game, people were voting me for either garbage reasons (Valern) or non existent reasons (Trendall and Romanus). I've never in my mafiascum career had a wagon that bad thrown on me before, so you can't make meta comparisons to things that haven't happened.

And I'll be damned if you went through all of my town games to confirm that I don't make such posts. You just found what you wanted in my scum games and posted it.

Terrible dirt throwing, and meaningless when trying to examine my alignment.

Another empty promise.

Funny, you must have missed post 170 when I followed through on that promise. Good job throwing more dirt on me that is MEANINGLESS.

Anyone noticing a trend here of him trying to make me look bad via ways that mean nothing about alignment?

I'm also interested in that GreyICE was pushing Valern so hard, but pulls a flip and says that I am scum now. Take a look at the ISO linked above; you'll see that despite ICE saying she has more points against me, it certainly doesn't look like it.

I actually do invite people to read said ISO. I make it very clear during day 3 that I found Valern's day 1 play to be horribly horribly scummy. It was. His play improved after that.

I'm also not lurker-tunneling, I've been one of the most active players in this game so far and have made cases against a large number of players. My case against Valern day 1 was solid, and I tried to push that very hard. Once his play started to improve, I started to push other players.

Of course you are. Strange, considering how much you bring up against him in your ISO.

I obviously don't think Valern is going to flip scum because you are our last scum. Sure I have a lot to suspect Valern about, but you're a lot scummier right now. I think Valern is town right now simply because I think there are only 3 scum. 2 of them have flipped, and the other will flip as soon as DRK votes you.

Nice try Quilford, but you've got nothing.

[ICEninja]

DRK I know this game isn't your highest priority right now, but deadline is sneaking up on us, and you are the sole force preventing this game from moving forward.

You really only need to put forth one last burst of activity on this game, as if today's lynch doesn't end the game, you're assuredly going to die over the night. And since you've got one more bullet, you hold endgame in your hands should today's lynch be wrong

The decision is yours. Just be aware that time is pressing, and we're all waiting on you.

[Fenhl]

Sorry about that. I was on vacation Apr 21 to yesterday, and unexpectedly had very limited internet access. I will have time to catch up tomorrow (if not later), so

@Zodiark13:

please keep up the good work until I can take over again.

[Zodiark13]

Sorry about that. I was on vacation Apr 21 to yesterday, and unexpectedly had very limited internet access. I will have time to catch up tomorrow (if not later), so

@Zodiark13:

please keep up the good work until I can take over again.

No problem Fenhl.

Incoming Vote Count

Vote Count

ICEninja [L-2] - Quilford,

Quilford [L-1] - RangeroftheNorth, ICEninja,

RangeroftheNorth - [L-3]

Valern [L-2] - Valern,

DeathRowKitty [L-3] -

WARNING: A PLAYER IS CURRENTLY AT L-1. BE AWARE OF THIS AS YOU PLACE YOUR VOTES

Not Voting: DeathRowKitty

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

Current Deadline

Other:
Please bold V/LA announcements.[/area]

[Quilford]

So, Ice, what's your case on me?