Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[Mana_Ku]

Oops.

Unvote

VOTE: Gandalf

Still fail
EDIT: And what he^^ said

We are jester-like.

Please always vote us before voting someone else, thanks.

p-edit: CHESS GET YOUR VOTE ON US THANKS. YOU TOO GANDALF.

Enjoy~

Vote: ABR

[Mana_Ku]

There's nothing more painful than the start of a big Forum Mafia game, where everyone desperately tries to start a subject.
Someone must be sacrificed by looking scummy so we can start having reads on each other.
Who's up?

Unvote, Vote: SGR

Make up your damn mind

[Mana_Ku]

Vote: SGRaaize

How about you?

Nah, I look way too Townie for that job. I suggest Chesskid.

You've just sealed it ._.

[Mana_Ku]

LMP
Why the vote against Wrath, when SGR calls the starting 'attacks' as too serious, suggests to look at somebody else by asking others who that player should be, to suggest Chesskid eventually, whom get finally a vote after some posts from SGR. He went back into the RVS and wanted others to get us out of the RVS. All his flip-flopping would be good for a cheerleading squad ._.

InHim
No idea what 'tacking onto' means. Stop using expensive words ._.
Other than that, there's a difference between 'agreeing' and 'piggybacking'. And you talked about a possible bus. About which players are you talking?

Dryfit and LMP
There has been another player in this game who had somebody mentioned as scummy, but who has kept his RVS vote at that point. Why no mention about this player?

CMAR
If you've put me in the category of players voting SGR for prolonging the RVS, you can read my reason again and put me out of it. Other than that, don't use the 'too scummy to be scum'-fallacy. It's a fallacy for a reason.

CMAR
So, which part of your role PM did you read the first time you saw it?

Pine
You know you're doing something wrong when you vote ABR for 'fishing', while in the end you yourself give in to his 'fishing'.

Soben
So what's your reason for giving reasons for your town-opinions, but keeping most scum-related reasons hidden? Aka, no reasons given in that post for RBT-scum and Implosion-scum.

Waiting before giving more detailed opinions.

[Mana_Ku]

@Lmp
During the RVS, we had two players who wanted to keep the RVS going. The first was SGR. His attitude:
-Oh My Gawd. Don't be so serious youll.
To
-Let's take a hayfork and stick somebody with it. Who do you guys wanna pick? (IF Pine had answered it, the answer would have been clear as SGR knew)
To
-*poking Chesskid* (Which is not completely true as he only suggested Chesskid and waited before he actually poked)

Wrath wasn't the flipfloppinh cheerleader SGR was, so why vote Wrath over SGR?
And it's not that hard looking at which other player was keeping his RVS vote, while seeing a different player as scummy. It's your reason for thinking players are scummy. I have different ones. If I can see it, without thinking it's scummy, you should be able to find it as well.
As extra, your accusation against RBT is terribad. Learn to read sarcasm.

@SGR
Be glad that I've been working on my top suspects in a different way this game as I hate your meta defence. Looking at what you said about using it, you probably know why.
/inb4 You're keeping information hidden!!!
Also, I never voted you as a joke. And Chess is just being a good boy~ Gandalf wants to join /in with the coolkids. Inhim and Dryfit just saw what they had to do (Wrath apparently as well, but I forget the whole time that he was present as well :S.) The wrong guy on your BW is LMP for reasons you've mentioned and I'm questioning him about.

Ok, this just came in:
On Friday, 20-05-2011, another scummy player came on board the SGR wagon. This player, B......, voted SGR on terribad reasons. Our journalist has interviewed M..._.. on the spot. This is what she had to say:
'Obv, he's biased against his own wagon. As he knows his faction *rolls eyes*. He's still alive, so if he's town, he's the only one who can analyse it with a complete 100% 'SGR is town' - thought behind it. In his eyes, this is catching scum. When a vote is placed, says a lot, which destroys his second reason (This time is an exception though, due to Chess's reason). And everybody can get angry when he's attacked by reasons he thinks are stupid. But as my future-telling abilities have shown me, he later sees part of SGR's 'overreaction' as town-tell.
M..._.., the White Fairy with somebody's Face, to the rescue~ (In other words, /in b4 OMG, White-knighting!!!)

Pine
Haha, no ._.
2) You did retract the vig request. But you did give Gandalf scum points in that same post. This doesn't explain why you didn't vote Gandalf.
5) Aren't you a player who also thinks there is scum on it, just like SGR? So you agree with him, but also attack him for it. You can't have it both ways, yaknow?

Also, state the inconsistencies from Soben that made you vote him, without mentioning 'look back'. Because from what I've seen, it's based upon Soben not voting KatsukIce.

@KatsukIce
Pine actually deserves the FoS you gave him in post 324, for not questioning you two about your reason for wanting more votes. It's logical to do so when you think the jester-like ability player is either mafia or third-party. Also, if he's town and is actually believing what he's saying, wouldn't it make more sense to get everybody to vote you? (rhetorical question) It either gets a third-party out of the game or everybody is killed who voted you (perhaps keep 2 players who didn't vote in case you survive, but that's only the case in the second scenario)

@Amrun
Which games have you played with Pine?


It should be obv which two players are most likely to get my vote. I'll hopefully get to that tonight.
But I'm nice enough to

Unvote

already.

[Mana_Ku]

Re-written:
-You analysing your own wagon is scumhunting as you are the only one who knows which faction your part of. For us, it's a guess. And of course, this makes you biased.
-when a vote is placed has an impact on the read you have of a player.
-Overreaction has to do with the personality of the player, not his allignment.

Beefster just wants to fit in with the crowd.

P-edit: Says the one who took my vote as a joke?

[Mana_Ku]

I won't take you seriously if and when you flip town. In fact, I will simply ignore all your posts because you will be dead.

~
But I'll be nice enough to help you~

Vote: Pine

[Mana_Ku]

Mana_Ku above post just reads as bussing scum.

Either read or read, before mentioning something like this.

[Mana_Ku]

@Beefster
Can you even fail more than you're doing now? You were scummy, post 430 is making everything much worse. Instead of responding to Amrun good reasons about being suspicious about you, you attack her even more with weaker reasons.
-You're accusing her of being defensive, while she's pointing out why you're suspicious to her.
-You mentioned that she has only been focusing on you after your vote, while her vote against Pine came afterwards.
You're just reaching for reasons to keep your vote against her.

@Mana: Your reaction to this post (Post 246) by SGR?

If anything, it shows something against Pine as Pine has also mentioned he doesn't want to be ignored.

@Implosion
Your wallpost is terrible. You mentioned that you were hydra-hunting, because there was little to go on. But in that same post, you agreed with Pine that there was scum on the SGR-wagon, which already existed when you looked at the hydra. This needs an explanation.

Finally, a topic-starter (as if we didn't have enough anyway):
-Do you think there are any players with town wincon, but evil alignment?

Why do you want to know?

To end, I'm not unvoting Pine.

[Mana_Ku]

ohai.


Did I miss anything over the weekend?

Pine self-voting and claiming even though Snow_Bunny has warned everyone not to do that.

Snow_Bunny warned us not to claim?

See the rules

[Mana_Ku]

-snip-

Finally, a topic-starter (as if we didn't have enough anyway):
-Do you think there are any players with town wincon, but evil alignment?

Why do you want to know?

Why are you fishing?

Learn the definition of fishing.

As for RBT, null so far.

[Mana_Ku]

Wrath wasn't the flipfloppinh cheerleader SGR was, so why vote Wrath over SGR?
And it's not that hard looking at which other player was keeping his RVS vote, while seeing a different player as scummy. It's your reason for thinking players are scummy. I have different ones. If I can see it, without thinking it's scummy, you should be able to find it as well.
As extra, your accusation against RBT is terribad. Learn to read sarcasm.

Wrath did it first, and I was reading up on the thread. SGR got my vote once it became obvious he deserved it more.

So you rather started a new 'wagon', because?

And am I the only one who's wondering why players are now saying to vote somebody else besides Pine :S?

[Mana_Ku]

You're still dodging Mana_Ku's (I think) questions.

Only me? He's been dodging everything ever since the discussion between the two of you started.
I also can't wait to hear how wrong he is in my case.

I'll look at LMP's post in a sec.
EDIT: And Beefster's new post, which on a first glimp shows his funny side as he's actually responding to reasons against him, while he states in that post that he normally waits with that.

[Mana_Ku]

If I type slower and in capital letters will it make it easier to understand!? I WAS CATCHING UP TO THE GAME. I VOTED WHERE I WANTED TO WHEN I WANTED TO WITH NO REGARDS TO STARTING A NEW WAGON OR JOINING AN EXISTING WAGON.

Good for you. I still have no explanation why Wrath over SGR. The only thing you've said, is that you were catching up. But that doesn't explain why you never mentioned it with SGR. Adding to that, the same can be said about you not searching for the other player who kept his random vote, while having a player who he saw as scummy, after it was mentioned. You're just picking your target for the moment.
As back to the quote, it's time for some MD-time: During the RVS, it's better to go with the wagon when you think two players are scummy for the same thing. Your options are: 'True', 'False' or 'CHESSKID'. In this topic, you may state your reason for the option you chose.

Really. If you think I'm scummy, just vote me.

I also don't see why you're voting for Pine.

I just said that I'm keeping my vote on Pine. There's a reason to it. Don't be a greedy kid. Just wait on your turn.
As for Pine, I've pointed out some inconsistencies. Other reasons haven't been mentioned to the audience.

And do I need to response to the part? Because it all comes down to:
Beefster - I knew my starting arguments against Amrun were bad. But because she saw that as well and saw me as scummy for it, she's defensive.
And as you already know, I see that as Amrun questioning/attacking her top suspect for legit reasons.
So yeah, you need other reasons. Otherwise, you're the last player in this game who may comment about reasons posted by other players to support their vote.

I'm also now looking forward to your response to Amrun's last post and when you notice that you should have read so that you'd have known that pressure on me is useless.

[Mana_Ku]

@SGR
-CMAR's argument was that scum wouldn't prolong the RVS as it draws too much attention. In other words, they wouldn't do it as it's seen as scummy. So everyone daring to take that risk of being declared as scummy, is town to him. How's that not the 'too scummy to be scum' - fallacy (Though it comes down to only one argument)
-I'm from the generation who believes something is a joke when the signs are there. So yeah, I'm taking your explanation lightly.

Anyway, I only responded to the parts aimed at me. Is there something in your wall-posts that should be interesting?

Vote: Beefster

~

@LMP
To help you out, my argument against you is that you only point out things when it comes in handy for you. You still haven't looked who the second player was who kept his random vote, while seeing somebody else as scummier (which is a scumtell to you) or mentioned SGR (and later I remembered that Implosion partially did the same) for the same thing you attacked Wrath. Your defence of 'I was getting updated' is unacceptable as it has already been pointed out a few times that Wrath quoted SGR in that post.
No, my question is logic. You've mentioned multiple times that you wanted to get out of the RVS. What helps more: Voting a player who has a wagon or a player without one?
Also, it's funny you've mentioned you argued with SGR about his opnion about you and Pine. That one came according to you down to one is scum, while the other is too serious for the same thing. And look where we stand? One player gets mentioned each time by you, while another gets ignored.

I agree with Gandalf about his opinion regarding the 'let us use this ability in favor for us'
The only other part that is interesting about these pages is LMP's change of opinion about SGR. SGR later admits that his 'plan' was actually a joke. Does this change your opinion on SGR and why?

If you [Katy] don't know, then why did you unvote mana?

Second

I'd like to join the Chesskid alliance.

Vote Gandalf

You're doing it wrong ._. It's Beefster today.

[Mana_Ku]

-I'm from the generation who believes something is a joke when the signs are there. So yeah, I'm taking your explanation lightly.

The only other part that is interesting about these pages is LMP's change of opinion about SGR. SGR later admits that his 'plan' was actually a joke. Does this change your opinion on SGR and why?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

True fact: LMP and me aren't the same person. What applies to me, doesn't have to apply to him.

@Snake
Beefster for his weak attack on SGR, his weak attack against Amrun, his responses to Amrun and his bad vote against me.

Chess, you know you want to vote Beefster~

[Mana_Ku]

unvote

vote: beefster

mana if you would be a doll and confirm that you have 100% mod provided that i'm with sorcerers blah blah blah that'd be great.

Stfu about it being a modkill GO READ FUCKIGN INVENTOR'S MAFIA IF YOU WANT TO SEE A SNOWBUNNY MODKILL

It should have been obv we're partners in

crime

~
And we have our reasons for not hiding it~

Also, does nobody find it interesting that Beefster comments about Amrun posting town reads, when that was a request?

[Mana_Ku]

Wrath is wrong about the term 'rolefishing', but he's town.

[Mana_Ku]

Also, does nobody find it interesting that Beefster comments about Amrun posting town reads, when that was a request?

I don't like it when people make a post of only town and null reads. C'mon, there's got to be some scum reads to show the rest of the class...

It. Was. A. Request.
She was asked to share her thoughts about those players.

[Mana_Ku]

Claim mason from chesskid = WIFOM. If anyone else had hinted at them been mason, I probably would have taken it more seriously, but since its chesskid......can you take a lot of what he says seriously? Basically im not sure if he was serious or not, which it doesn't matter as I probably wouldn't lynch CK3 today regardless if he is a mason or not.

I've confirmed it ._. Normally, I wouldn't have liked it, had Chess played like that. But he had a good reason to do so.

After the recent posts, two new players stood out to me. One is lucky that he/she read town to me at the start. The other though...
Chess, we need to talk ._.

[Mana_Ku]

kid y did u claim?

He had his reason(s)~

[Mana_Ku]

@LMP
What I'm talking about:
2 players wanted a longer RVS. You only mentioned one of them.
2 players kept their random vote, while calling a different player scummy. Only one of them got called out by you.
At least 3 players mentioned that they think that the claim plan won't work as town players won't claim. Rhetorical question: Did all of them get called out?
Get it now?

Beefster still shows how reaching he can be. Also, the 'explanation' about ABR not defending him is so bad ._. When Amrun's case gets questioned, it's :goodposting:. But when his case against Amrun gets questioned ... Just fill in the blank.

@Implosion
Your wallpost is terrible. You mentioned that you were hydra-hunting, because there was little to go on. But in that same post, you agreed with Pine that there was scum on the SGR-wagon, which already existed when you looked at the hydra. This needs an explanation.

I explained this at the end of post 447.

You took the end of page 447 as a defence, while post 441 mentions that you priorized hydra-hunting over scumhunting as there was little to go on? Katy pointed already a few things out which you could have commented on and I did the last with the above quote. You're just looking or excuses.
And before you start denying it, you have commented on votes against Pine, but have yet not given a detailed opinion of the votes against SGR.

Agreeing with what's been said about Peregrine's 'catch-up post'

Though I had this feeling for a long time, I'm now putting up the request:
Don't make me comment on Snake ._. He's scummy and if I say more I'll have to think a few times which words I'll have to use...

True fact: LMP and me aren't the same person. What applies to me, doesn't have to apply to him.

I still like how you basically argue I'm Mafia by saying I am not a joker and by saying I am a joker.
Make up your mind, you weirdo. Only you could look scummy even though you claimed mason with someone that confirms you.

You've got to be kidding me. I questioned LMP about something you said. I am a player who takes 'it wasn't serious!!!' as possible when the signs are there. I don't know if LMP is like that as well. His opinion could have changed after you mentioned it was a joke.
And once again, what is important in that wall?

[Mana_Ku]

Amrun, what evidence do you have that suggests NOT multiple scumteams? I came into this game assuming multiple scumteams. First off, it's a large, and more larges have multiple scumteams than not. Second, it's a large with a complex setup, which likewise almost always have multiple scumteams. So the burden of proof is on YOU.

There is at least one town faction and one scum faction. Town faction is called Sorcerers, while scum faction is called Wizards. Other factions may exist, and they may have wizards, sorcerers, or other classes

[Mana_Ku]

There is at least one town faction and one scum faction. Town faction is called Sorcerers, while scum faction is called Wizards. Other factions may exist, and they may have wizards, sorcerers, or other classes

Town faction is called Sorcerers, while scum faction is called Wizards. Other factions may exist, and they may have wizards, sorcerers, or other classes

TherTown faction is called Sorcerers, while scum faction is called Wizards.

scum faction is called Wizards.

scum faction is called Wizards.

/inb4 'But TAH RULEZZZZ say multiple scumteams are possible!!!'
For those players, look at the other Wizard/Sorcerers games from Snow.

[Mana_Ku]

@LMP
What I'm talking about:
2 players wanted a longer RVS. You only mentioned one of them.
2 players kept their random vote, while calling a different player scummy. Only one of them got called out by you.
At least 3 players mentioned that they think that the claim plan won't work as town players won't claim. Rhetorical question: Did all of them get called out?
Get it now?

Beefster still shows how reaching he can be. Also, the 'explanation' about ABR not defending him is so bad ._. When Amrun's case gets questioned, it's :goodposting:. But when his case against Amrun gets questioned ... Just fill in the blank.

@Implosion
Your wallpost is terrible. You mentioned that you were hydra-hunting, because there was little to go on. But in that same post, you agreed with Pine that there was scum on the SGR-wagon, which already existed when you looked at the hydra. This needs an explanation.

I explained this at the end of post 447.

You took the end of page 447 as a defence, while post 441 mentions that you priorized hydra-hunting over scumhunting as there was little to go on? Katy pointed already a few things out which you could have commented on and I did the last with the above quote. You're just looking or excuses.
And before you start denying it, you have commented on votes against Pine, but have yet not given a detailed opinion of the votes against SGR.

Agreeing with what's been said about Peregrine's 'catch-up post'

Though I had this feeling for a long time, I'm now putting up the request:
Don't make me comment on Snake ._. He's scummy and if I say more I'll have to think a few times which words I'll have to use...

True fact: LMP and me aren't the same person. What applies to me, doesn't have to apply to him.

I still like how you basically argue I'm Mafia by saying I am not a joker and by saying I am a joker.
Make up your mind, you weirdo. Only you could look scummy even though you claimed mason with someone that confirms you.

You've got to be kidding me. I questioned LMP about something you said. I am a player who takes 'it wasn't serious!!!' as possible when the signs are there. I don't know if LMP is like that as well. His opinion could have changed after you mentioned it was a joke.
And once again, what is important in that wall?

Fixed post 1020 ._.

[Mana_Ku]

Mana_Ku, I'm not sure what you were getting at with the rule you quoted, but the same one was in the past game where there was a small scum group as well as the sorcerers.

The mageslayers weren't a scum group, they were a pair of SK whose main mission was to get the archmage

Nu-uh~

[Mana_Ku]

@Mana_Ku: Out of curiosity, what exactly did you fix?

quote tags were done incorrectly ._.

[Mana_Ku]

I'm catching up today or replacing out.

You know what you need to do >.< I'll help you out afterwards~
Anyway, tomorrow my opinion on some players.