Mini 1159 - Powerrox93's Mini Normal I (Game Over)

[bvoigt]

I think Uncle Pain is right to question bvoigt's read of him, it seems like bvoigt just trying to stick with his slot's previous reads, which I see as scummy. On the other hand, the "I'm not affiliated with redtail" remark is pretty odd - tarsonisocelot is right to call him on this....

What is scummy about having the same reads as yabbaguy?

I remember others saying that the hammer was a bad move, but I don't remember anyone else actually calling C-Worl scummy for it.

Well, if you count actual votes as well, there are already eight people calling C-Worl scummy: the ones voting him, plus Jase, tarsonisocelot and imaginality (as stated in their posts).

Oh, I should have clarified. You had the strongest reaction

before

[L] flipped. And yes, I know she implied she was town after the hammer, but scum will also do that. And it sounded like you were still supportive of the lynch.

@Zdenek: What's your read on C-Worl?

[Uncle Pain]

What is scummy about having the same reads as yabbaguy?

It’s convenient to completely agree with the preceding slot player. It’s supposed to look consistent but in fact it looks opportunistic and can be seen as minimising the effort put into the reads. Hence the scumminess.

Oh, I should have clarified. You had the strongest reaction

before

[L] flipped. And yes, I know she implied she was town after the hammer, but scum will also do that. And it sounded like you were still supportive of the lynch.

I was believing [L] during twilight – I mean, why shouldn’t I? Yes, scum could have pretended to be town at that point as well but what would they have gained from it? The flip would have occurred soon anyway, scum couldn’t have change anything. Tricking the other players for hours in which nothing can be decided anyway is so insensible that I deem(ed) it unlikely.
By the way, in #312 I stated my opinion about C-Worl’s hammer, which had nothing to do with my vote on [L] – it was my intention to state that clearly. I then summarised my voting reasons because C-Worl asked me to. I think you read subtext in my post where there is none.

Something weird strikes me about zdenek and me=weird. I need to go back and reread to see their actions more clearly.

A weak attack against me and me=weird.

I agree for as long as he doesn’t provide us his case.

[C-Worl]

I was believing [L] during twilight – I mean, why shouldn’t I? Yes, scum could have pretended to be town at that point as well but what would they have gained from it? The flip would have occurred soon anyway, scum couldn’t have change anything. Tricking the other players for hours in which nothing can be decided anyway is so insensible that I deem(ed) it unlikely.

There are such things as Governors and other roles that prevent you from being lynched. I always keep claiming my towniness in any game until I've been told not to post anymore. Granted the chance of those roles are low but you never know when they might end up working in your favor.

[Uncle Pain]

Huh, never heard of this kind of role. I don’t know if it’s allowed in a Normal Game but caution is never bad. Hence, thank you for pointing that out.

[Me=Weird]

I'm disliking C-worl even more with all the references to uncommon roles. It doesn't seem like something town would do.
Jase, why exactly do you want a competing wagon? Are you just unhappy about lack of original contribution?
@everybody expressing suspicion of C-worl not voting him: Is there any good reason you don't want to hammer?

Town:

Me(obv)
Uncle pain: Has seemed pretty town motivated and genuine.
Jase: Made good contributions lately.
TIO: Seems a lot more like noob town than noob scum.

Townish Null

bvoigt: He and his predecessor have both made good contributions, but both have given me an odd feel.
zdenek: He's been posting okay, but feels kind of sheepish.
imaginality: Initially pretty townish, but lately has slacked off in a way I can see scum doing.

Scummish Null

crazypianist: Has never been a major contributor, and has always felt off with me.
redtail: He's contributed okayish, but IIRC hasn't made a lot of original points. Plus, he replaced Surprise carcinogen, who wasn't very town and left under pressure.

Scum

RotN: The only participant in his slot was mist, who was not townie at all. All other three in this slot have made about one post.
C-worl: Already explained.

For any alternate wagon, I would suggest RotN, the least contributing slot in the game.

[Powerrox93]

Votecount 2.10

Updated as of post #416

C-Worl (5) - crazypianist1116, redtail896, Uncle Pain, RangeroftheNorth, Me=Weird
redtail896 (2) - Zdenek, bvoigt

Not voting (4) - Jase, C-Worl, tarsonisocelot, imaginality

If there's a mistake let me know.
11 Alive == 6 to Lynch && 6 to No-Lynch

C-Worl

will be lynched at deadline if votes doesn't change

V/LA

Jase: Until May 19
tarsonisocelot: 22-23 May + 27-30 May

Deadline

May 30 17:00 CEST

RangeroftheNorth still hasn't picked up his prod

[Me=Weird]

Also, forgot to mention that I'm going to be out of town for the weekend, so

V/LA over the weekend.

Noted

[bvoigt]

What is scummy about having the same reads as yabbaguy?

It’s convenient to completely agree with the preceding slot player. It’s supposed to look consistent but in fact it looks opportunistic and can be seen as minimising the effort put into the reads. Hence the scumminess.

That doesn't really make sense to me. For one thing, would anyone actually question my reads just because they were different from Yabba's? And why is it "opportunistic?" I don't see how I was taking advantage of the opportunity to get a lynch, especially since I have a town read on C-Worl.

[Jase]

Well ok so I looked back at c-worl from D1, and there isn't much there the reasons I have to lynch him are, that was a really really bad hammer, I had just been talking about scum doing what c-worl did which I think may have given him the idea,

The idea that you saying something is scummy gave scum the idea to go and do it seems ridiculous to me.

It's not just the act of mentioning the idea. I was shouting about how bad that would be for like half a page. It doesn't seem particularly unlikely that scum would see that and go "Yeah that would be bad for town wouldn't it...Muahahaaaa". In fact I think there's a good chance that that's what happened.

Jase, why exactly do you want a competing wagon? Are you just unhappy about lack of original contribution?

For any alternate wagon, I would suggest RotN, the least contributing slot in the game.

I don't necessarily want a competing wagon. What I want for there to be more information today, and not much scum hunting has happened. Ideally something would be brought up that would start a wagon that gains enough support to be considered competitive to the c-worl wagon, sparking a whirlwind of discussion. The second bit (I think) is pretty clearly misinterpreting my want for another wagon. I don't want to know who else people think we could maybe lynch instead of c-worl, obviously if we lynched immediately c-worl would be best. I want people to look for a GOOD wagon. I want to see some good solid scumhunting.

Having said that I'm going to have to go v/la one last time. I swear I'll be around after this until the day ends and I'll actually contribute to the scumhunting I've been demanding.

V/LA for another two days (if you really, really want you can replace me. I know this is getting kinda retarded. Sorry.

[Zdenek]

@Zdenek: What's your read on C-Worl?

Looking at him in ISO, he started off thinking [L] was scummy, which is fine.

I agree with the point against him for bringing up unusual third party roles (Jester, Governor).

I really hate his ISO 6, and in particular this:

Now, can I get tarson, zdenek, crazypianist, and uncle pain in their own words in the shortest paragraph possible why they think [L] is scum.

Can I also get yabba, redtail, [L], and prox in their own words in the shortest paragraph possible why they think tarsonisocelot is scum.

Consider yourselves as trying to win over my vote. Failure to comply will be seen as you sheeping to the wagon that you're on.

He's voted for [L] without giving a reason, but as he unvotes, he demands everyone else give cases. It seems hypocritical to me.

As far as the hammer goes, it was anti-town, but I don't buy the argument that scum would do it because Jase pointed out how anti-town it was.

His play today reads like he is resigned to his lynch.

Overall, his play is definitely anti-town, and the only thing that makes me think that he could be town is that don't think that scum would hammer after being told not to.

It’s convenient to completely agree with the preceding slot player. It’s supposed to look consistent but in fact it looks opportunistic and can be seen as minimising the effort put into the reads. Hence the scumminess.

I'm having a hard time buying that you actually believe this because you're basically accusing bvoigt of being obvious scum - giving reads that are lazy, and just an attempt at being consistent or opportunistic, but you don't attack him for it nearly strongly enough.

@everybody expressing suspicion of C-worl not voting him: Is there any good reason you don't want to hammer?

Jase has told everyone to not hammer. Why are you asking this?

[C-Worl]

Ok this game is boring.

Vote: C-Worl

I'm scum.

[C-Worl]

BTW, who wants a healthy dose of Wifom from a dieing scum player. There's 3 others left and they are bvoigt, Jase, and Me=Weird.

Now you have to figure out if I gave u two scum and one town, two town and one scum, three town, or three scum. Have fun with my WIFOM gift.

[C-Worl]

Hey who wants the scum to keep talking? Well here's some more WIFOM. All my partners hopped on my wagon.

WAIT! You want more WIFOM to deal with? I hammered [L] so that tarsonisocelot wouldn't get lynched.

Not enough for you? Hammered myself to keep suspicion of Uncle Pain from building up.

MOAR? ROTN FLAKED BC I WAS GETTING LYNCHED AND HE GAVE UP ON OUR WINCON.

NOT ENOUGH? BVOIGT COMES FIRST IN THE ALPHABET AND ZDENEK COMES LAST IN IT! COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT!

I GOT BARRELS OF THIS SHIT!

I'M SCUM, AND AS MUCH AS YOU'LL WANT TO IGNORE EVERYTHING I JUST SAID YOU KNOW YOU'LL LOOK AT IT ON THE HOPES THAT I GAVE SOME KIND OF CLUE. YOU KNOW IT'S A DISTRACTION BUT YOU'LL COME BACK LIKE MOTHS TO A FLAME, AND THERE'S NOT A GODDAMN THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

[Uncle Pain]

Well, this kind of makes my longish post obsolete.

C-Worl

: lol. I think you’re overestimating your power here. For what it’s worth, I’m eager to see how you flip.

[C-Worl]

Well, this kind of makes my longish post obsolete.

C-Worl

: lol. I think you’re overestimating your power here. For what it’s worth, I’m eager to see how you flip.

I'M A GOONEY GOONEY GOON! BUT YOU ALREADY KNEW THAT. TELL THE OTHERS IN THE QT THAT I'M SORRY FOR GETTING FOUND SO EASILY.

[Uncle Pain]

I'm having a hard time buying that you actually believe this because you're basically accusing bvoigt of being obvious scum - giving reads that are lazy, and just an attempt at being consistent or opportunistic, but you don't attack him for it nearly strongly enough.

I wasn’t stating my own opinion, I rather tried to show to bvoigt why imaginality finds his reads scummy (i.e. I think I understood what imaginality wanted to say so I paraphrased/explained it). It wasn’t my intention to attack bvoigt for it because I find it a weak argument.

[imaginality]

Quick-hammering D1, self-hammering D2? If C-Worl isn't scum I'm not playing with him again.

If he is scum, lol, amusing way to go out.

@bvoigt, I don't think it was opportunistic, I was suspicious of it mainly because I had (and have) a strong townread on Uncle Pain and it seemed like most other people at that time also saw him as town. So, to see one person disagree with that (yabbaguy), okay. When you came in and also gave a scumread on him, the chances of that seemed unlikely. So that's why I thought you were maybe just echoing yabbaguy's reads, and I couldn't see any pro-town reason for doing that, but I could see potential scum motive (sticking to whatever plan had been agreed during the night).

[imaginality]

@Uncle Pain - any reason not to post your longish post anyhow, if you still have it?

[crazypianist1116]

Hey who wants the scum to keep talking? Well here's some more WIFOM. All my partners hopped on my wagon.

WAIT! You want more WIFOM to deal with? I hammered [L] so that tarsonisocelot wouldn't get lynched.

Not enough for you? Hammered myself to keep suspicion of Uncle Pain from building up.

MOAR? ROTN FLAKED BC I WAS GETTING LYNCHED AND HE GAVE UP ON OUR WINCON.

NOT ENOUGH? BVOIGT COMES FIRST IN THE ALPHABET AND ZDENEK COMES LAST IN IT! COINCIDENCE? I THINK NOT!

I GOT BARRELS OF THIS SHIT!

I'M SCUM, AND AS MUCH AS YOU'LL WANT TO IGNORE EVERYTHING I JUST SAID YOU KNOW YOU'LL LOOK AT IT ON THE HOPES THAT I GAVE SOME KIND OF CLUE. YOU KNOW IT'S A DISTRACTION BUT YOU'LL COME BACK LIKE MOTHS TO A FLAME, AND THERE'S NOT A GODDAMN THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Jase = +10 scumpoints

Thanks!

[Uncle Pain]

Jase = +10 scumpoints

Explanation please. This is far from obvious.

imaginality

: Well, it’s mostly obsolete, as I said. Some things still apply or may be interesting despite the obsolescence.

Man, the game seems to fall asleep… time for some questioning.

• Jase: Have you found anything pointing to a connection between redtail896 and me? What do you make out of it?
  
• tarsonisocelot: Since you currently don’t want to vote C-Worl, why don’t you pursue the wagon of your second suspect redtail896?
  
• C-Worl: Just noticed you never told us your suspicions, so what are your reads and why didn’t you come forward with them on your own?
  
• Me=Weird: see below.
  
• bvoigt: Do I understand you correctly that part of your case against me is that I hide my real motivations behind my wall posts? What if I wrote smaller posts with less content, would you then call me on active lurking?
  
• Zdenek: Do you have any suspects besides redtail896?
  
• imaginality: What is your actual case against bvoigt/yabbaguy? You only mentioned yabbaguy’s opening gambit which was quite pro-town in the eyes of most of us.
  
• RangeroftheNorth: see #399.
  
• redtail896: In reference to #319, now that you see tarsonisocelot in a more townie way, who would your lynch today
  “if we agree not to lynch C-Worl”
  ?
  
• crazypianist1116: Why did your scum hunt eagerness drop so hard since Day 2? Besides your case against C-Worl, do you suspect anyone at all?

I'm disliking C-worl even more with all the references to uncommon roles. It doesn't seem like something town would do.

Please elaborate. I don’t see any scumminess in this. He was just explaining bvoigt’s point to me.

@everybody expressing suspicion of C-worl not voting him: Is there any good reason you don't want to hammer?

Is there any good reason to hammer him right now, especially after Jase explicitly (and rightfully) asked not to overfocus on C-Worl?

For any alternate wagon, I would suggest RotN, the least contributing slot in the game.

I kind of agree with this but I favour lynching someone for a real case. Policy lynches are so-so.

RangeroftheNorth still hasn't picked up his prod

Adding to my list of don’ts: applying for a game as a replacement and just posting “Hello”.

[crazypianist1116]

Jase = +10 scumpoints

Explanation please. This is far from obvious.

The lack of Jase in his "WIFOM" post made it seem like he was distancing from the person who was deciding to lynch him (READ: waiting for people to jump off his wagon) all day long.
Take it in jest. Nothing's for certain yet.

[Uncle Pain]

To be honest, I’m quite fond of the idea to completely ignore and forget C-Worl’s WIFOM posts as soon as he flips scum. One can interpret it in a thousand ways, every one of which is more WIFOMly than the other.

[crazypianist1116]

I probably will too, I was just trying to get an overly cocky response.
Oftentimes, scum will give away aspects of their team in an attempt to be WIFOMy.

[C-Worl]

EVERYONE WHO HAS COMMENTED SINCE MY HAMMER IS ON MY SCUM TEAM. THAT INCLUDES MY UNCLE, THE PIANIST, AND MY IMAGINATION.

JASE ISN'T A PARTNER. Y'ALL TOTALLY SHOULDN'T SUSPECT HIM. (OR MAYBE YOU SHOULD? LOL)

WIFOM BITCHES YOU CAN SAY YOU'LL IGNORE IT BUT DEEP DOWN YOU KNOW YOU WON'T. LOL

[crazypianist1116]

Continue spewing more bullshit please.