Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[Pine]

I don't particularly like Pine as scum this time around

And yet your vote remains on me...don't have a real scumread to put it on?

[SGRaaize]

I'm gonna assume everyone ignoring me means I am not scummy anymore.

[LimMePls]

LynchMePlz voted here, with remarks on how my FoS'es are inconsistent or whatever, they aren't, I think that he knew at this point this BW was indeed picking steam, and he could safely vote me. The only person I'm almost 100% sure is Mafia in my BW.

I did not say anything about your FOS'es being "inconsistent" when I voted you. Here is exactly what I said:

Also, I also gotta reveal my reads, cause all the cool kids are or will be doing it.

Town-read on WC and Icey.
Scum-read on LynchMePlz
Way-Too-Serious-Read on Pine

This is a scummy post. Is having a scum read while parking your vote on RVS something you think is town? A way to serious read means what exactly?

Hey Gandalf, where are your breadcrumbs, bro?

Breadcrumb hunting?

I would like you to explain all of those reads. Also, I'd like you to explain why exactly you are hunting for a players breadcrumbs. My only concern is that I'm not sure scum would be this ridiculously obvious. Looks "too scummy to be scum", but I hate those arguments. I think you're the best place for a vote now.

I have a simple question, does everyone have at least one damaging ability?

My role PM suggests everyone does.

Only answer if yes, obviously.

Can you explain what possible good this fishing does? How is "only answer if yes" in any way helpful, since those who don't answer are saying no!?

Unvote
Vote: SGR

So why are you lying?

Later on I pointed out that your claimed reads of me and Pine are wildly different despite the fact that our positions were identical. You still have offered no satisfactory explanation for that.

Your analysis of your own wagon is a) self-serving and b) complete crap.

[SGRaaize]

1) The Breadcrumb thing was a joke, as explained before
2) Also as explained before, keeping my vote on RVS even though I already FoS someone is not a scum move, and even if it is, I have done it before as Town.
3) I already explained why I read you and Pine differently in a previous post.

[SGRaaize]

And the BW Read is hardly self-serving, I'm being realistic here. The BW is way too long for the reasons on it. The few good points on me are really not that big of a deal and can all be explained using (Yes, I know, its annoying) meta.

[Riceballtail]

@Soben: You know that I'm scum from one post, namely a RVS post? You know... there are two kinds of people in this world: those that can extrapolate data from inconclusive information and...

+scum points for over defensiveness. Also note the insinuation that we can't know RBT is scum from one RVS post, not that we can't know RBT is scum at all.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3057352

Note how they comment on the other two, but have no reason for me to be in the list, much less vote. Your rush to scumbuddy aid is noted.

[SGRaaize]

Also, I apologize about me wrongly wording the reason why you FoS me, it wasn't me lying, I just made a honest mistake.

[Pine]

@ LMP: It's definitely self-serving (@SGR, you can't really declare that it isn't, that assessment isn't for you to make). Not yet sold on it being complete crap, though. I only skimmed it, not wanting to taint my own later analysis with pre-suppositions, but the "No one on my wagon is solidly Town" bit was a red flag. So was that nervous, approval-seeking "Why is everyone ignoring me?" comment.

[SGRaaize]

Do you honestly expect me to have solid town reads on someone that is voting me for what I consider bullshit reasoning all the way through?

[Soben]

Note how they comment on the other two, but have no reason for me to be in the list, much less vote.

Simple, witholding reasoning for my FoS at this stage of the game allows me to moniter said players reactions to the FoS. Rices reaction in this case proves that she's following the thread without providing any imput herself solidifying my vote on her. An example of this proving effective is in Newbie 1078 where Tragedy started flailing when reasoning wasn't attached to a FoS on her.

You have a problem comprehending english?

[Riceballtail]

Are you able to filter the difference between "finger of suspicion" and "vote"?

[Soben]

Are you able to filter the difference between "finger of suspicion" and "vote"?

The difference between them at this stage of the game is minor. There's no risk or likelihood that the vote I placed on you would cause a lynch therefore no harm in doing so, if anything it increases the strength of reaction you present.

[LimMePls]

Just so I'm clear on this:

After that, you entered the frame, voted WC for still trying to go for RVS (Curiously ignoring me, even though I was quoted by WC on the post you quoted doing the exact same thing) and started with the whole "BOO, RVS SUCKS". I didn't suspect Pine as much because Pine agreed with you but didn't seem that bothered about it, plus, he commented before he didn't mind RVS and serious talk "intersphering", so I saw that more as a null-tell than a scum-tell, which is what I saw on you.

Hope that explains it.

You have a "too serious" read on Pine. {Editor's note: WTF does that even mean? How the fuck is that even noteworthy?} Then I make a post that you decide is scummy. Then Pine agrees with me verbatim. Then you post your reads, and Pine is "too serious" and I'm "scum". And you see no inconsistancy here at all?

[WrathChild]

Also, I also gotta reveal my reads, cause all the cool kids are or will be doing it.

Town-read on WC and Icey.
Scum-read on LynchMePlz
Way-Too-Serious-Read on Pine

This is a scummy post. Is having a scum read while parking your vote on RVS something you think is town? A way to serious read means what exactly?

Hey Gandalf, where are your breadcrumbs, bro?

Breadcrumb hunting?

I would like you to explain all of those reads. Also, I'd like you to explain why exactly you are hunting for a players breadcrumbs. My only concern is that I'm not sure scum would be this ridiculously obvious. Looks "too scummy to be scum", but I hate those arguments. I think you're the best place for a vote now.

I have a simple question, does everyone have at least one damaging ability?

My role PM suggests everyone does.

Only answer if yes, obviously.

Can you explain what possible good this fishing does? How is "only answer if yes" in any way helpful, since those who don't answer are saying no!?

Unvote
Vote: SGR

I want in on this Wagon, I agree with LMP. Throwing out town reads based on nothing is scummy.

UNVOTE, VOTE: SGR

Here's my original vote on SGR. Nothing to do with me seeing myself in his shoes or whatever. I saw very valid points made by LMP, primarily baseless town reads (especially on me, when I didn't feel I was being overly towny (still effing around with RVS) at the time)) and breadcrumb hunting. Later (apparently I need to clarify my comment about my play in American Gods), I saw you paint your own back with a big target with the word EASY going across it. This is exactly the strategy I used in American Gods as Mafia. You know, "Oh poor me, I'm such an easy target and scum are picking on me".

I appreciate your defense and efforts, but would appreciate it even more if you scumhunted instead of calling the person with the best points against you, scum. I actually feel like LMP is one of the most town players so far. If you want me to move my vote off you, convince me there's a better place for it.

[gandalf5166]

VOTE: IceyCupcake

They are either town or third-party that doesn't interfere with town, imho, and I'll give this a go and see what happens.

Wow. You acknowledge that they aren't harmful to town. And then you vote for them. Why the FUCK?

Unvote
VOTE: Amrun

InHim and LMP are still scum though. SGR is town.

[Soben]

Wow. You acknowledge that they aren't harmful to town. And then you vote for them. Why the FUCK?

We are jester-like.

Please always vote us before voting someone else, thanks.

That should answer your question.

[gandalf5166]

Oh..... I uh...... missed the imp vote afterwards.

Unvote
VOTE: Cupcake
Unvote
VOTE: LMP

[inHimshallibe]

VOTE: IceyCupcake

They are either town or third-party that doesn't interfere with town, imho, and I'll give this a go and see what happens.

Wow. You acknowledge that they aren't harmful to town. And then you vote for them. Why the FUCK?

Unvote
VOTE: Amrun

InHim and LMP are

still

scum though. SGR is town.

I contest this modifier. I've been scum in your eyes for how long?

FOS one way, vote another, FOS two more ways.

unvote
vote: gandalf

[SGRaaize]

You have a "too serious" read on Pine. {Editor's note: WTF does that even mean? How the fuck is that even noteworthy?}

I dunno, I found it fun to point out

Then I make a post that you decide is scummy.

Yes

Then Pine agrees with me verbatim.

Yep

Then you post your reads, and Pine is "too serious" and I'm "scum".

Ah-yup

And you see no inconsistancy here at all?

Nope. As I said before, Pine didn't make that much of a big deal as you, he said the page before that there was no problem with intersphering (whatever that means, but I'm assuming it means having them both) real talk with RVS talk. You, on the other hand, went in completely out, saying "Grrr, I hate RVS, RVS is bad, look at me guys, I think RVS is bad, am I townie now"?

[IceyCupcake]

I don't particularly like Pine as scum this time around

And yet your vote remains on me...don't have a real scumread to put it on?

I'm discussing it with Katsuki. I'm not going to move her vote around at random.

[SGRaaize]

To answer it in a more simple and nearly not as confusing manner:

-Pine RVS's in the beginning with a vote on Chesskid3
-Starts taking things way too serious around here with his answer to Icey and Gandalf
-Keeps joking with WC and claims there's no reason to mix RVS with real Scumhunting.
-You join in and vote WC for wanting to RVS.
-Start arguing with gandalf about how RVS is bad and everyone who likes it should feel bad and is scummy and you are so town because you think this, amirite.

[SGRaaize]

Just noticed this

So was that nervous, approval-seeking "Why is everyone ignoring me?" comment.

The last thing I would be worried about if I was Mafia would be people ignoring me

[gandalf5166]

VOTE: IceyCupcake

They are either town or third-party that doesn't interfere with town, imho, and I'll give this a go and see what happens.

Wow. You acknowledge that they aren't harmful to town. And then you vote for them. Why the FUCK?

Unvote
VOTE: Amrun

InHim and LMP are

still

scum though. SGR is town.

I contest this modifier. I've been scum in your eyes for how long?

FOS one way, vote another, FOS two more ways.

unvote
vote: gandalf

A while. Just because I didn't say it doesn't mean it's not true.

[LimMePls]

If your argument is "LMP went out of his way to make it plain that stalling RVS is bad, thus he's trying to hard to look town" then I'm guilty of the first part and think your conclusion is stupid.

[LimMePls]

You still don't have a good justification for why my doing it was BAD BAD BAD but Pine's wasn't.