Dynasty Warriors Mafia (Shu Victorious)

[Maxous]

/confirm

[Maxous]

I have found scum! So now I should convince the town and then duel that person to death, right?

The basic idea, yes.
I would ask that nobody rushes in and declares a duel early on however

If you've found two scum then convince the town an then we have the two people die in a duel against each other.

This is not going to work.

We decide together who our two top suspects are and force them to duel (and anybody who refuses to duel will be auto-lynched by the town via some townie who volunteers to duel them

And this is why...'self hammer or else we lynch you'. Rarely a good idea.


It will probably be a good idea to ask permission before you duel. And do not leave it until the last minute.
Oh and important : Have the person suspected claim before you declare a duel.
As for post 33 I would be of the opinion if somebody wants to duel and we trust them, let them do it. If nobody wants to duel then simply lynch.

[Maxous]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

Amrun

- 1 - Juls - (L-10)

elvis_knits

- 2 - Gammagooey, AlmasterGM - (L-9)

GreyICE

- 1 - ToastyToast - (L-10)

Maxous

- 1 - Vi - (L-10)

mykonian

- 3 - elvis_knits, CSL, DietyKabuto - (L-8)

RayFrost

- 1 - Katsuki - (L-10)

Vi

- 1 - GreyICE - (L-10)

Players not voting: Amrun, Bastard Bros, C-Worl, Iecerint, InHimshallibe, Magister Ludi, Maxous, mykonian, RayFrost, RedCoyote

Explain. I don't see your pov.

Alright let's go through this..
Let's say for example we the town determine Amrun and Juls to be the two most likely players to be mafia. We tell them to duel each-other and we will kill them both. If they don't do this we will lynch them one after the other.
Alas, it turns out Juls is town. If she calls this duel then she would be allowing herself as town to die without people lynching her (this is the equivalent of self-hammering as town) and therefore we get little info out of the lynch/death as opposed to analysing who voted to be her lynched.
That is why it is actually a bad move as town.

As for the other points..

- Yes, the town's permission

- Yes, only claim if that person is going to be lynched/killed. The reason I say this is in case a strong town player declares a duel on a scummy player but it turns out the scummy player is actually the doctor or something. It would be too late to turn back and we would be in a lose-lose situation in picking the winner.

- As for the last point I disagree because the implication from the rules is not everyone has a dueling ability they can gain. So it would either be
1) A waste when we could be choosing somebody that does have an ability
or
2) We would be outing those that don't have a dueling abiltiy to gain - There could well be a reason they don't

I agree with this for the most part, but if there comes a situation where something is a 1v1 without a duel...well, they should probably just duel.

You said you agree with elvis knits but this statement does'nt read like you did.
And why should two people who are in an arguement just duel anyway? What if you think neither of them are scummy?

Hmm I want to see who mykonian is so sure of that he wants to duel right away. I have a thought but I'll wait for the response.

P-Edit: So we can basically use Gamma as a double lynch today.
Moar P-Edit: Don't get it Juls. Why is Amrun's joke scummy?

[Maxous]

Well I get what you meant now.
However the problem I would have with 2 'scummy looking' people dueling is we would be giving the winner a power-up. Plus the hassle of trying to get them to duel each-other in the first place if they suspect they are going to lose.

1) The way I would rather do it is who dies is decided by at least a reasonable amount of town consensus and who does the killing is decided by need for power/who plain wants to.
Too much individual responsibility for deciding lynches will make it hard to analyse certain people's opinions.

2) Hmm as far as I know Dong Zhou and his army? But it could easily be one of the other clans that were around at the time.
To be honest I did'nt even think of the multiple families until you mentioned it,that is possible.

[Maxous]

This game sure talked a lot in a day..

Toasty Toast - post 79 I don't like. If somebody beleives they have enough evidence to convince the town that a person is scummy,

then they convince the town.

Starting a duel

then

convincing does'nt make a lot of sense. This post to me came across as bit of a panic after Almaster called him scummy.

Katsuki - Calls Juls town. Could be a joke because I don't see it.

This and this read like made up post restrictions to me.

..And what about them? Do you think they are mafia faking restricitions?
Don't like this vote either. That was actually a misrep. Ludi said the reason toasty might think of 2 scumteams in the first place is because his own is small and then commented on flavour speculation when it was the subject being discussed.
Quite a scummy vote in my eyes actually.

I'll keep this in mind if the mafia flip the Shu family.
After questioning Ludi, Ray Frost "can't think of scum motovation for excluding it?" Then why say he 'had an issue with it?. 'The bad vibes from Ray increase.

Icerint - post 129. Huh, I actually missed that the first time he I read those posts. My first thought about hypothetical team numbers if there was two seperate mafia teams would be three members each but it does seem odd Ludi posted as if that was surely the case.

I'm not the rushy type,

To be fair it looked rushed to me also. And elvis has certainly not been passive.
By the way @mykonian: Do you still think gammagoeey is mafia?

This is a fair point, but what do you say to the idea that voting "no winner" of said duel is, in effect, like voting both players? So, I mean, we're still getting information out of that.

It is true that the town will get info out of it.
Imagine this scenario however, 4 or 5 players say to you ' we think you and C-Worl are the two most suspicious people in the game. Duel each other for a double kill now or we'll lynch you(requiring the town majority). As town what would you do?

GreyICE existence levels lower than anticipated.

And why did you mention this? Do you suspect him or something?

Juls - Post 151. Agreeing that discussion on the subject matter is distracting from scumhunting. This is after 4-5 posts of

doing nothing

to find scum. Trying harder to look pro-town than scumhunting.

Did Magister Ludi make a slip? If yes, I would not be surprised as his play this far seemed scummy already.

And just why did you not check? And you that uninterested in determining his alignment?

DK and then ML from Amrun? Hmm.

GreyICE- Your vote on Almaster. Based on meta or reaction fishing?

@Inhimshabille: Who is Toastytoast buddying?

B bros -post 169 Asking for less flavour talk. Actively saying nothing.
Do you have any suspects in this game yet?

C-Worl - Why are Grey and AGM scum together?

I actually see this vote as opportunistic from CSL.

[Maxous]

Short version - top mafia suspects are Ray Frost, Juls and CSL.

[Maxous]

Huh, I liked that answer from Juls
Ah okay

VOTE: Ray Frost
I actually forgot to do that last time haha.
Willing for CSL either.

Amrun seems to be town along with gammagooey.

[Maxous]

Juls plan - no. Town chooses pro-town player to duel scummy player. The point is we think the scummy player will be mafia.

I thought Vi was having a sincere restriction here because she doesn't tend to be deliberately annoying but... "idiot input" is my hobby and job.

Post 98

This(C-Worl) and this(Vi) read like made up post restrictions to me.

There is a clear inconsistency here.
Also you see them as null tells that don't point to thier alignment in any way even though you think C-Worl and maybe Vi are making them up? Then why mention it?
And while you are it please explain why GreyICE is 'bad town' and you want himself and AGM to stop arguing?
I'm probably tunneling at this stage but what are you referring to by almost as terrible as Ludi?
Do you think C-Worl is mafia or not? And if Ludi is 'terrible' (I'm assuming this means scummy) then why did you change your vote?

Gah, Ludi's vote on Iecerint is slightly scummy looking.

and dislike the csl-hint.

What CSL hint?

Huh? I could understand not being swayed by the joke thing, but how could you possibly have a townread over what she's posted thus far?

Amrun is freaking out because she thinks DK is posting and acting differently than previous town games of his - it strongly comes across as townie-paranoia.

By the way RC's suggestions for the duel against gamma seem a little too close to the easy route for me. With the exception of B bros(whom I never played with before) I probably could of told you before the game that the other 3 people he suggested would be early suspects.

[Maxous]

Correction to the last line. With the exception of B bros whom I've never

seen

playing before.
I have'nt played with all of the others mentioned before.

[Maxous]

DK- you're just making excuses.

C-Worl labeled "lynchbait". All prior attackers placed under watch.

This came straight after C-Worl voted for GreyICE, while Vi had a go at C-Worl for voting AGM earlier when he done the exact same thing with the same reasons upon voting both of them. Suspicious.

AlmasterGM 336... Playback for emphasis.
AlmasterGM 336 wrote:Why is [Amrun] my buddy, specifically?
Suspiciously specific denial found. Ambiguous. Desire of scum flip prominent to discern number of antiTown parties.

And as for this point

You are seriously calling that comment suspicious or a scumtell? Enough to flip AGM?
GreyICE bringing it up was one thing as himself and AGM have went all tunnel mode on each-other but the fact that Vi brings it up as suspicious surprises me to say the least.

Amrun's accusations against DK is pot and kettle stuff. DK is right to question the reasoning here.
Amrun -give your town reads please

Still not convinced by Ray Frost..

Max, with this added condition, do you agree to the plan? Essentially what we're doing is still "lynching" a player, but when they get to, like, L-2, with intent to lynch, then the person who is going to duel will duel them.

Yeah sounds like the best way to do it.

After consideration I'll drop the 'easy route' arguement.

Still need to get caught up, but TBH, I'm ready to see a Gamma-Amrun dual.

....why?

[Maxous]

Still see Amrun as town. Freaking out over an alleged change of playstyle - 'something is different' - is paranoia that is often from town. She also showed the paranoia in reference to B bros.
This however does not make her arguement against DK correct.

I would be against elvis_knits being lynched. Don't agree with her suspicions but she seems to be making a genuine effort to help the town in this game with regards to the mechanics and finding mafia.

unvote

VOTE: Drunken Unicorn Master

By the way Gammagooey if you feel using your power today would require a lynch to be rushed through you can always save it for day 2. I'm fairly sure there is at least one protective role that can cover you during the night.
To be honest if I was in your position, I would'nt of even mentioned the power in the first place until day 2 given the nature of Day 1 but there's nothing we can do about that now.

[Maxous]

Maxous 406...
*In re: C-Worl - Town read on C-Worl not new. Little further processing of C-Worl posts has occurred since initiation of Town read.

Yeah but the 'lynchbait' was. Pretty coincidental timing. Particulary when C-Worl was'nt being pushed for a lynch in between your ISO 8 and ISO 9.

*In re: AlmasterGM - Misunderstanding. Latter statement in reference to desire to know: contrast desire to see AlmasterGM confirmed as scum.

Fair enough I misunderstood the comment as wanting to flip Almaster now.
However if there are 2 scumteams you suspect AGM to be on one of them yes?
Don't get your Amrun point(s)

Iecerint appears to be simply fluff posting at this stage.

The drunken unicorn thingy is pretty obviously scum. If someone is actually interested in lynching them right now, I’ll make a case, but I doubt that is necessary right now.

The wagons today are quite obviously on the weaker players (ML/Amrum/DUM), and apart from DUM (whose wagon sucks), I haven't seen a lot of scumminess from them.

What happened here?

[Maxous]

Decided I should check this since there's a fuss being kicked up over it...

Anyway...

16)Vi—If the post restriction is indeed fake, I see no reason for town to do this. Hard to follow, given that she answers everything with one liners, with the exception of RedCoyote. Keep getting reminded of hascow winning Game of Thrones with a fake post restriction.

@Vi: The post restriction thing is my main concern with you, you're hard enough for me to read in a game without one.

with regards to your questions on vi

1)I already mentioned that, in addition to the FAKE PR, vi does not have a focussed opinion and seems to suspect everyone

2)If its

fake

, then how is it at all helpful to town? How does intentionally making posts hard to understand help town in any way? There is no logical reason for making one up in my opinion.

Post 485
I bolded the relevant part.
Suspicion of Vi due to faking post restriction turned into not having 'focused opinion and suspecting everybody'.
Long story short he did'nt already mention that before and it was made up on the spot becuase people were asking him to explain his Vi read. (fake pr?)
=> His suspicions of Vi were/are not genuine. Toasty would of mentioned that the first time.

Bleh, for missing that initially -.- (I actually checked the ISO thinking I was going to find reason that Toasty was innocent :p)
I would be on board for a Toasty duel.

[Maxous]

Okay admitally I missed post 434 (I ignored it because I thought it was solely a paragraph about DUM)

"almost everyone in the game was more town than she was" - you did'nt mention it was because of Process of Elmimination

"Is it scummy to add to a case?" - when nothing has happened in between for something to be added to and it was in response to people calling you out on it, yes.

"I can't tell who she likes, who she doesn't like because everytime she posts its like "I AM A ROBOT. I FIND A SCUMMY THING HERE BUT A TOWN THING HERE. IN OTHER WORDS, I DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE AN OPINION."" - and what is your opinion of this post

P-Edit: Ninja'ed on the last point by Gamma. Still Toast what is your opinion of the post? Do you still find Vi scummy?

[Maxous]

Little time I skimmed..
Vi is back on the scumlist?

When was she off it? Bah :/

You(B bros) giving Toast a town read when he is clearly scum is noted. Potential scumbuddy found!

Pfft.

I see two apparent declared kills. Hmm just post another couple of times to get to a votecount to find out.

[Maxous]

Looks like Ludi was right with 2 scum groups. Of all people to made third party, I doubt it would be Gan Ning...

Who wants to claim Zhou Yu and Sun Quan for us??

..
Because you're on the other mafia team?

Why would'nt Red Coyote simply be mafia?

[Maxous]

Eh but why

two

scum groups?

[Maxous]

Vote gamma to win

[Maxous]

Juls I presume Vi does'nt have a duel ability. That would be a waste..

VOTE: Drunken Unicorn

[Maxous]

Unless noted - I.E. not everyone.

[Maxous]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 10

Bastard Bros

- 1 - Iecerint - (L-9)

Drunken Unicorn Master

- 2 - Maxous, RayFrost - (L-8)

elvis_knits

- 1 - Gammagooey - (L-9)

Iecerint

- 1 - Juls - (L-9)

InHimshallibe

- 2 - Vi, Magister Ludi - (L-8)

Players not voting: AlmasterGM, Amrun, Bastard Bros, C-Worl, DietyKabuto, Drunken Unicorn Master, elvis_knits, GreyICE, InHimshallibe, Katsuki, mykonian

Regarding dueling : I could duel whoever if nobody objects.

It could be pretty useful. It's best I duel early anyway..

Either way I'll read/comment on the last couple of pages tonight - skimmed again :I

[Maxous]

This doesn't even make sense. Kat's post is quite towny, and somehow Maxous wants to twist this to his advantage.

The hell?
We have had one scum flip and she said 'looks like there are two scum teams'.. so yes I questioned that comment, I did'nt(still don't) see where that came from.
What did I twist? What does'nt make sense?

[Maxous]

^
Which scum?

[Maxous]

To clarify why I am voting Drunken Unicorn: Mainly this post. Ludi had 6 votes on him by this time. She claimed in the previous post that she was going back to read the case on Ludi - and then came up with something, stating an incorrect variation of what many were saying about Ludi.
In short: I don't beleive she fully read the case on Ludi and was simply looking for any reason to get on the Ludi bandwagon
=> insincere suspicions.
Inhimshabille also had a couple of interesting points about thier posts seeming a bit feigned.

Plus comments such as 'B bros is toasty's scumbuddy for having a town-read on him when toasty is obviously scum' is more likely to come from mafia in my opinion.

[Maxous]

If you think this is rushing, say it now, or be forever silent

You rushed :/

[Maxous]

Come to think of it how many people agreed to a inhimshillable duel?

I count 4 votes.
It should of *at least* been put off until more people stated thier stance on him.

BTW I do have a town read on mykonian but I have a stronger town read on inhim, so yeah.

[Maxous]

Pedit: why a townread on inhim, Maxous?

No compelling reason.
I agree with a lot of Inhim's reads and I find his posts and suspicions to be genuine.

[Maxous]

So you want inhim to win this duel?

Yep

By the way,
@Juls: Is your vote simply punishment on Mykonian? if you had to pick a winner who would you pick?

[Maxous]

@Iecerint:
AGM said 3 anti-town factions. It does'nt neccessarily mean anything such as an SK. It could be any anti-town role.
Red Coyote flipped the red Wu.
There is the green Shu and the yellow Turban people as well right(like the Zhang's)

I'm not saying you are wrong but I would'nt completely rule out RC being 3'rd party based on his character.
Did'nt RC's character(Gan ning) have a habit of changing alleigances anyway?

[Maxous]

As in his game role mykonian... not his character >_>

@Katsuki: I think you just assumed that. That being said I don't have a lot of knowledge about the theme and I am looking up stuff online about it.
It's just my very first thought about who the mafia team would be in this game - was the yellow guys. Because i thought they were the main enemy of that time. They seem to be in most adaptations anyway I've seen anyway :/

[Maxous]

I honestly don't care very much about this flavor BS and AGM's supposed info about three scum groups. I do not trust AGM's info out of hand. Maybe it's true but it's a scum power (isn't it helpful to them to know what they're up against?). Maybe it's not true and he's setting us up to believe that it's natural to have 3 kills (when 3 kills really means we empowered scum who got an extra kill). Honestly, it sounds to me like the game would be really scum-heavy with 2 3-man mafias and third party. But, hey I guess it's possible and I'm not the best balancer anyway. I just know that when I played in dynamite mafia it was 1 3-man scum team in a 20 player game (but that was vanilla).

So I take AGM with a grain of salt.

AGM is either telling the truth or is suicidal mafia who will be caught before we even reach LYLO when we discover there is'nt 3 anti-town factions.
Regardless of AGM's alignment he is very likely to be telling the truth.

[Maxous]

Wait a minute.
I was saying that off the assumption that 3 anti-town alignments meant 2 seperate mafia teams and a third party but AGM could of faked the 3 anti-town alignments and later say it must of meant a could be a singular mafia team and two third party winning conditions.
Hmm nevermind.
Though I will take his word that he is telling the truth at this moment on time. He seems town to me.

[Maxous]

Okay then =)

Vote inHimshallibe to win the duel

[Maxous]

Okay, well I understand why mykonian wanted to duel quickly now.
Not confirmed town but I see his ability as more likely to come from town than mafia.

Anyway, Public Service Announcement:

I'm dueling today.

Dragging my feet over it would be a bad idea. I stepped aside last Day period because mykonian said he had the best ability for Day 1.

I will duel whoever the town puts at L-2 with intent to hammer, regardless of my personal opinion of the player.
I will re-read the town lynches tomorrow ~_~

[Maxous]

Gamma - who are you and why can you duel so much?

[Maxous]

Answer Gamma.

2 lynches a day looks way over-powered.

[Maxous]

Basically parroting here but:
T-Bone makes an entry post, 2 people question aspects of said post. He reacts with "But nice that you two (AGM, Ludi) quickly jump on something very insignificant, I'll keep that in mind." - Total defence reaction to people questioning him, 'I'll keep it in mind' meaning you will be scummy if you keep questioning but I'm not actually going to call you scummy.

AGM questions him more and T-Bone changes his tune in post 958 calling Ludi very scummy(why did'nt he say that the first time?) and AGM is looking for any reason for a lynch and only interested in his survival i.e. scum (why did'nt he say this the first time either?)
'I just entered the game therefore my posts should not be answereable'. And he would'nt even give a basic idea of who is suspicious to him...apart from his omgus on Ludi.
Looks like maf to me.

VOTE: Gammagooey
Let me get this straight...we have a doctor in this game, that could of protected Gamma every night. So he would'nt die.
Gamma can constantly use his ability to give the town 2 lynches a day.
There is my ability also.
And Gamma is town? As if the game is going to be broken like that...
His refusual to share his character and why he can do it does'nt help either - particulary since we already know his ability.
I'm banking he is some kind of third party lyncher.

[Maxous]

So we have a multi-shot Day vig and a multi-shot double lyncher....

As for the duel - I am again choosing between two town reads. Again I will vote my stronger town read.

Vote: elvis_knits to win

BTW 3 anti-town factions does not neccessarily mean two seperate killing sources.

[Maxous]

Well it certainly seems gamma is not a lyncher like I suspected o_O

DK is not town.

P-Edit: We could have Iecerint confirm but as far as I know Lu Bu is

not

part of the Wei and is therefore not town. He is one of the three anti-town factions AGM mentioned.

[Maxous]

Dk - you are third party.
A singular third party.
Sorry but not a good idea to have around.

[Maxous]

Duel in progress

With AGM's death I think we can safely assume, there are indeed 3 anti-town factions then..we have flipped two.

Anyway onto to present matters.. T-Bone is the following you're only reason why Iecerint is mafia?

Iece is hiding behind his flavor knowledge and overall not contributing much but continued flavor speculation. How does that help us scum hunt?

Does confirming these abilities confirm them as town?

Nope, neither does.
Although Iecerint's passive ability would be unfair to have as mafia.. it would'nt confirm him but it would be pretty damn close.

[Maxous]

Oh and DUM reminded me.

Next time Vi kills without a claim - lynch her

[Maxous]

Okay I've been thinking about this duel (dangerous I know :p)

T-Bone knew Gamma was going to declare a duel on him.. Gamma's ability would allow another lynch during the day.
So the optimal mafia move? Declare a duel yourself and don't allow 2 duels during the day. Because T-Bone was going to die anyway. This greatly increases my confidence of T-Bone being mafia. Either way he should be lynched.

Now.. does T-Bone declare a duel on town or his mafia buddy? There are pros and cons to each option.
However Iecerint was'nt under that much suspicion.. which leads me to beleive it might be plausible that Iecerint is his buddy.

Now, Iecerint claims he will not die upon losing the duel and the day will become dueless

unless

he wins. This threat makes little sense as the day will end anyway.
His duel ability is a vengenance kill which will allow Iecerint not to be night killed by mafia and we won't even question why.
In short they are plausible fake claims for a mafia to make.

The best option is the following

Vote: No winner

=> Likely mafia T-Bone is lynched
=> We test the fake-claim sounding ability of Iecerint. At best he is a modified beloved prince in which it would be useful to get rid of that con now anyway.
=> If Iecerint is legit he has nothing to fear here.

[Maxous]

Implicit denial that previously exterminated subjects were scummy detected

I did not think GreyICE was all that scummy. Neither did most of the town.
I was suspicious of Red Coyote but most of the town was'nt.
You are acting here as if you killed according to town consensus.

I am asking you to get a claim off the target before you kill them in case they are provable or useful town. Getting a claim first is not a complicated ordeal.
And I enjoyed how questioning your killing behaviour has a low chance of coming from town. Pull the other one.

As for post #1100 - I was simply pointing out that it is now confirmed that 3 anti-town factions and so only have one left (which is likely to be the mafia).
I don't think Red Coyote was mafia.

[Maxous]

For anybody who is going to vote for Iecerint to win anyway - I explained why it is better to vote for no winner....

Unless somebody wants to point out a flaw?

[Maxous]

Actually, T-Bones last post was very town sounding. Shit.

Nominate Magister for extermination.

If T-Bone flips mafia I would also suggest looking at this post
That looks like a good way to help your buddy without making it too obvious. Using the reasoning of testing abilities while not giving a clear stance of his opinion on the players.

Interestingly these were the two players that voted each-other for weak looking reasons and then jumped off each-other when other people's suspicions started to get serious.

But we should flip T-Bone first of course.

[Maxous]

Meant to say this before..
@Gamma: No winner = Double death of duelists - not simply ending the duel like nothing happened.

I understand your point Iecerint..I will take it into consideration but it does'nt exclude Ludi from being mafia indefinitly. Mafia can purposely lie about stuff like that. I have seen it before.

Maxous 1104... Implication not made that exterminations were made with Town consensus. Statement made was that exterminated players were scummy.

And my implication was not everyone agreed.
=> Your challenge to say the players were'nt scummy does'nt wash.

Impression received that no one reads ViBot posts.

Are you referring to the below quote?

Magister Ludi 1094... Reads as a scum post.
Katsuki 1097... Reads as a scum post.
RayFrost 1098... Reads as a scum post.

That's well good and all but if you don't explain why they are, people are'nt going to follow that
I was attempting to show others why..

Query directed @Maxous regarding whether subject has knowledge of ViBot's role.

...Day vig?

[Maxous]

So if Ludi and T-Bone are scum..Iecerint is scum also?

As for your role, emm no I don't know :/
And what red flag?


I think I'm going to have to be lumped in with the dumb category as well =_=

[Maxous]

Oh. I'm a derp >.>

unvote
Vote: Iecerint to win the duel

I thought T-Bone would also die through the other way.

[Maxous]

Playback.

Juls I presume Vi does'nt have a duel ability. That would be a waste..

Recorded statement is

correct

. Querying source of information.

Well the opening here says:

All players, unless noted, have the ability:
A.)Duel

Sooo at least somebody does'nt have a duel power in this game.
The day vig looked like an obvious choice to me. Balancing the abilities.

System... Querying existence of suggestions for daily extermination AND/OR if plans exist to call ViBot anti-Town regardless of result again.

...All I'm asking is that you wait for a claim before killing...
And yes, there is a reason.

[Maxous]

^
I think so too.

So Amrun was'nt anti-town as far as I can see.. I beleive Lyncher is anti-town in all circumstances.
Was Red Coyote anti-town? Hard to know. Have we even flipped a mafia yet?

Bleh we need a T-Bone flip here.

[Maxous]

Iecerint only needs the

most

votes right?
So it won't be a disaster if deadline hits without a majority..and there is'nt a lot to discuss until T-Bone flips anyway.
Meh it does'nt matter - hammer whenever.

[Maxous]

Sorry to hear that RC

Magister Ludi - can you give me a claim please?

T-Bone was definitely mafia -so I'll check B Bros ISO... sometime

[Maxous]

Gammagooey, RayFrost, Katsuki, and Illiterate Unicorn Typist (I should probably stop this, as two out of their three reads are entirely legitimate) are at the moment not being considered.

How in the world is Katsuki not being considered?
And it is not as if you did'nt notice it either.
Not comfortable with this turn-around at all Vi, it should be apparent Katsuki is on the green team by now. But you chose to ignore this, instead you started throwing vague accusations at mykonian and myself - which I completely don't get.

And Ray Frost is not being considered as T-Bone's buddy?
This could of easily been a way to defend his pal, without making it too obvious he was defending him. A good guise to use.
Iecerint as well goes above them!?


As for T-Bone/B bros - Drunken Unicorn is likely not to be on the green team. Neither is Iecerint.
Through both players interactions..I would guess C-Worl is not with the green team either. The way T-Bone ridiculously attacked Gamma might mean he is not green either but I would'nt be as confident here as with the other 3.

I'm saying 'green team' in case there are 2 mafia parties.(It is hard to know about Red Coyote) If there is only 1 mafia party I would say the above 3(and then gamma) are likely town then based on flipped mafia interactions.

[Maxous]

There's nothing like getting accused to give you the idea that you should start looking like you're scumhunting, no?~

Right..so now I'm only pretending to scumhunt - implying I was'nt earlier - when I raise a point against

you

But when I was accused of stuff earlier and then questioned

other people

- not a word about fakehunting was mentioned.

I WILL be very surprised if he flips red-scum instead of green

You're pretty assumiong about red-scum being in this game
BTW I don't think Ludi is on the same team as T-Bone.

Eh, I'll wait for Ludi to claim before moving on.
I would reccomend Vi does'nt unleash her wrath before this duel is finished...

[Maxous]

^
Red-scum apart from Red Coyote I mean

[Maxous]

This one I guess
Which was.. 3 days ago. We have had constant duels since then...
And my points about Katsuki and Rayfrost were points I brought up earlier on them.. but now I'm faking it because Reapher Charlie thinks I'm buddying?

[Maxous]

"To start

looking like

you're scumhunting" - implies you do not think it's real/genuine.
Scumhunting "when it's convenient" is the basically the same accusation.

And you quoted my conversation with Katsuki.
Of course I was'nt going to bring that point against her until we had proof that a mafia team was another colour.

[Maxous]

Oh well. It doesn't matter regardless. Katsuki is Town

:/

but why are you so interested in claims?

I am looking for somebody...

[Maxous]

Magister Ludi - character claim please then.

[Maxous]

Maxous, anything to say?

Emm sure >_>

I have a town read on Gamma. Abiilty aside, he has acted like a townie to me - Not delighted with how he rushed into a Magister Ludi duel but still.

Ludi is softclaiming a useful role that is only useful if the mafia don't know about it. So like a bulletproof or a bomb or somthing. We'll live without it, even if true.
Ludi only listed reasons why Gamma was scum

after

Gamma declared a duel on him. In fact looking at this post he had Gamma strongly down as town. This was Ludi's reaction to Gamma's duel on him. He tried to portray Gamma as scum with a bunch of null tells. He even admitted the sole reason he reversed his read was because Gamma dueled him. I would of bought Ludi's explanation more if he maintained his town read on Gamma but argued that he was more useful or something. But he instead tried to portray Gamma as scum when he had little cause to. Saying he only noticed it after he went back to re-read after Gamma dueled him - is showing that Ludi was'nt critically analysing Gamma's posts in the first place(a scum-tell) and Ludi is focusing more on survival rather than help catching mafia(another scum-tell)

I would like a conclusion for Reaper Charlie's suspects. He accused everybody but Ludi and C-Worl of being mafia.
Katsuki is looking like she is playing buddies with Drunken Unicorn.

The case for mykonian is weak and/or not well explained. mykonain's lurking in this scenario is a null-tell.
C-Worl however, seems to be active lurking - posting within prod timelines and generally avoiding attention. He has had one suspicion in this game - the AGM and GreyICE bussing suspicion. The only other thing was 'questioning' ToastyToast when it open season on him.
So if a lurker lynch must happen - C-Worl would be a more desirable target.

Vi seems to have done a 180 in this day period. From pursuing the dodgier looking townies(even though I disagreed with GreyICE's and Amrun's kills) she is now pursuing the likes of Iecerint, Gammagooey and mykonian - the townier looking players of the game.
Iecerint mentioned up above how she could be on a hypothetical second scum team. If another red player flips I will take a serious look at it. We know through T-Bone's behaviour that green is a mafia team.
However if green is the only mafia in the game - Vi being a day-kill mafia as well as night kills in the game seems unlikely. Don't vigilantes statistically not affect the town's chances of winning anyway?
Don't see why Gamma's ability would be pratical as mafia - save for WIFOM reasons..but still :/

So yeah I think Iecerint is town - no particular reason..just do.

I would like RayFrost to explain why dueling and/or killing him is dangerous. I am tempted to call his bluff. That subtle defence on T-Bone still stands out to me.

[Maxous]

Oh before I forget.

Vote: Gammagooey to win the duel

[Maxous]

Thinking about the set-up...

If Gamma and Vi are both town with thier abilities and Red Coyote was indeed third party.
That would mean the mafia team would probably be 5 members right? If it was 6 originally it would be game over already - since we flipped the two other 'threats'

So if Magister Ludi flips town this game could realistically be in LYLO. Something to keep in mind.

No rushing into duels at all costs. And no vig kill rushes either.

[Maxous]

First we wait for Ludi's flip. Then we decide who gets vigged.
Then, actually I will duel whoever.
It's better than a cop power in this situation. Trust me on this =)

[Maxous]

Cao Ren is famous for defending Jing province for Wei for a long time even though he was outnumbered and for defending Fan Castle against Guan Yu. I would have inferred something defensive, but I dunno what would've made Ludi not want to claim. : /

The wiki goes on about how he had great endurance and defence so he probably became immune to night kills or something. I can see why he did'nt want to claim that - I for one would of been spectical of such a claim.
Then again he was prob better off just claiming - his behaviour during the duel was very unconvincing.

Maxous: you can't call a bluff and feel good when it wasn't really a bluff. I'm not going into more detail just from you wanting it. If people want to start a duel with me, I ask that they don't so I can explain my ability. Don't target me before I can claim. All I'm saying.

Sorry about the wording then - it's more of a figure of speech towards any claim where I'm from.
Tl;dr: I would like you to explain the ability because I might end up dueling you.

But it seems we are now massclaiming so nevermind.
Would of rathered to do it in the next day period but w/e

[Maxous]

I for one would of been spectical of such a claim.

Actually I would'nt of been spectical - I would of been more sceptical

[Maxous]

Mise means 'I' or 'me'

Eh sure thing Iecerint..

[Maxous]

Gamma: there is a distinct lack of Vi on that list.
Also Gamma have you you know claimed absolutely everything about your role?

So mykonian - you are claiming that dying straight away was a side-affect of inhimshallible's ability?
Ugh, I wish he was around before that duel ended to verify. I assumed that was mykonian's duel ability (a one-shot instant win)
Did you hint at all earlier that you lost your ability?

Eh I guess it would make sense that the girl musician character was too weak to win a duel...

[Maxous]

Nooooo back to confusing wording >_<

'no detection of suspicion' - You mean I don't suspect mykonian? Well yeah, I think he is town.

My previous mentions? - You want me to explain my town read on mykonian?
Do I have to mention it during the game when I see a post which suggests somebody is town?

P-edit: Not if the scum die first

Also
@Gamma: Have you explained all the details of your role yet?

[Maxous]

Okay..

What was this special role related info then?

[Maxous]

Oh that's what you meant.
Okay then.

Thought you might of been lying about something for a second there~~

[Maxous]

So I wake up to a duel declared on me.. sweet. And RC, the reason you declared a duel on me was..? Last time I checked you said your read on me had fliped to town.

And VI I CHANGED MY MIND. KILL RAYFROST INSTEAD.
But RayFrost completely avoiding talking about the duel between Gamma and MagisterLudi AT ALL, pretty much means he and Gamma are scum together.

This is some fairly interesting points.
Petinent question here:

Why the hell did you not duel RayFrost!?

It certainly helps to leave a paper trail, especially when the person in question is scum and you've only explicitly said negative things about him before calling him Town.

Huh?
The only 'negative' things I said about him was that he was being hasty regarding duels. In ISO #25 I in no uncertain terms declare I have a town read on him.
I did'nt delcare anything he done 'scummy'. So if a person does'nt do anything I find scummy then...I think they are town.

The T-bone vote wasn't GOOD but it would be fairly as ballsy as scum

No it was'nt and that is the point.
Unicorn dude stated he clearly beleived T-Bone was town over Iecerint.
However RayFrost said he was voting T-Bone as a way

to test abilities

while stating one or either could be scum. He did'nt declare his own personal read on either of them. It was 100% the easy route.

I've no idea on how I'd ever get my D)

You would have to declare the duel yourself obviously..
And you claim to have asked the mod about this? And he did'nt clarify that is what you would have to do?
This seems quite strange.

And C-Worl's duel ability is a roleblocker and nothing else?
Even when gamma's active ability is roleblocking? Hmm.

[Maxous]

As for my claim I am Yu Gin - one of the five generals.

My duel ability is called Daylight. Once per game I can block all actions at night. Complete negation if it works.
Hence my early suspicion of Gamma - it seemed too town over-powered to have both these abilities. And then lump Vi's ability in with this as well.
But Gamma is not a lyncher and giving a mafia extra lynches ain't exactly pratical so w/e

[Maxous]

Fake edit: Maxous, do you have any other abilities?

None that I am gonna mention.

As for fake claims: Flavour-wise T-Bone had a viable character and ability claim. It is safe to assume the mod has given the mafia good safeclaims so not adding up according the wiki is'nt really a scumtell.
Unless for some reason mafia C-Worl decided to stray away from the claim given to him.

As for Katsuki and RayFrost - hypothetically if they are on the same team she would know his fakeclaim, and told you she targeted him accordingly. It would'nt be that hard to fake.
Did she mention why she targeted RayFrost?

[Maxous]

And again, RayFrost completely bypasses the large elephant in the room and concentrates only on explaining himself and not getting killed.

[Maxous]

Mrrr? I don't have time to make long posts in between games of LoL. /addiction

The length of your posts are not issue nor were long posts required.
If you were reading the thread enough to explain yourself you could of spared 1-2 lines stating who you agreed with and who you think is mafia. Even if you were skimming since your ISO 76 - around 15 posts from you at the time of my last post.
What is your opinion of mykonian?

Explain the result of your "Hmm"ing or I shall assume that you were "Hmm"ing to the tune of notreallycommenting.

As in I am unsure and thinking about it.
It seems weird that somebody's duel ability would be the exact same as somebody else's run of the mill active ability. So gamma just has this ability anyway but C-Worl gets this ability as his big prize? It seems off.
Maybe C-Worl is lying/witholding information. I am considering it.

[Maxous]

^
Moar elephant dodging

[Maxous]

@Katsuki: Why did you pick AGM and Rayfrost for 'interrogatation'?

There is DEFINITELY scum in the random-dudes.

Bzzzt. Don't double guess the moderator.

b) To whoever said I haven't expressed suspicion of Maxous before, check my ISO again. I clearly expressed suspicion.

Your last post considering your suspicions of me was this. Hence the confusion.
And this is

right after

I told you I have a more useful ability than a cop.

As for Ray Frost's defence of T-Bone I explained the issue here (as well as in other posts)

HEY MAX MAKE SURE YOU PUT IN A CONDITIONAL ACTION TO USE THE MASS ROLEBLOCK IF YOU WIN THE DUEL BEFORE IT ENDS

I done it in advance yesterday because I am

just that awesome

8)

The other reason that mykonian is going to die is because Maxous has been looking for claims. In particular, this post sticks in my memory.

wrote: but why are you so interested in claims?

I am looking for somebody...

But I don't remember anything like that in his claim.
I do remember mykonian being interested in them (or having reason to be interested in them) though.

I have no idea what your thought process is here.

Vote: Drunken Unicorn Master until I get clarification on the above from Maxous

What is this shenanigans?

Did mykonian claim mafia or what? That was confusing.

[Maxous]

And this is right after I told you I have a more useful ability than a cop.

Whoops this should read - you started the duel right after...and so on.

@Gamma: Because I was.
I'm not going to claim why. I will if it becomes relevant.
Don't worry about it. =)

[Maxous]

I would of told you in five seconds flat if I had info that someone fakeclaimed o_O

[Maxous]

What are you getting paranoid about Iecerint?
Guys - If the information was useful for the town I would of told you already.

Speaking of the dead scum, I did find T-Bone's character interesting upon a bit of research. His character was my related to my character in terms of the Shu guy powning my character.(suffering his greatest disgrace)
His character had the nickname of 'god of war' while my character obviously has a peaceful ability. I'm thinking maybe T-Bone's abilities could counter-act mine somehow.
As when I asked about priority rules the mod said I have first priority in

most

cases.
This paragraph is 110% irrelevant speculation.

[Maxous]

I have a reason not to.

Oh and

Vote Maxous to win the duel

[Maxous]

I don't think Vi could fake that.

Anyway last post before deadline.
I sent my action in so if I win there won't be a night kill during the night barring any lol tricks from the mafia.

Katsuki

- try neighbourising before the deadline. It should fail and you will know my ability is legit.

[Maxous]

There are 8 players left. Let's assume 3 mafia left. (out of an original 4 mafia)

I flip town - someone town dies tonight.
Game over unless Gamma successfully blocks.

Unvote; Vote: No winner

Yeah if RC is town - Iec is not.
Yeah..look at this post - why is RC scum to him?

So eh yeah - if you are town. Freakin vote me to win now!!!

[Maxous]

So now I'm scum with Vi huh? Thought it was DUM.

RC (L-3) ~ RC, Vi
Maxous (L-3) ~ Gammagooey, Maxous
No Winner (L-3) ~ Katsuki, Iecerint

Hmm so I need C-Worl's or Ray Frost's votes or Game over.. Don't think C-Worl will vote for me. Prob vote for no-winner.
Ray Frost said he was leaning for voting for me.

So predictions would be:

RC (L-3) ~ RC, Vi
Maxous (L-2) ~ Gammagooey, Maxous, Ray Frost
No Winner (L-2) ~ Katsuki, Iecerint, C-Worl

Hmm

@Mod: What happens if a player and 'no winner' receives the same amount of votes?

If Ray Frost is mafia - he simply won't vote. I'll be at L-3.
If Ray Frost is town - the 3 mafia are likely to be Katsuki, Iec and C-Worl - they won't move the vote. (though C-Worl has yet to vote)

Biggest problem is that RC is prob f**n town. Bah this is irritating.
More than likely only 1 of {Kat, C-Worl, Iec, Ray} are town.
Town Iec - thinks I'm mafia due to set-up speculation and

now

finds reasons why I'm mafia from Day 1 (scummy by the way)
Town C-Worl - Not gonna bother. I don't know and he is likely to be mafia in my opinion
Town Katsuki - Don't have a clue
Town RC - he's not gonna vote against himself and has pretty much tunneled on me anyway.

Vi is'nt moving her vote. Gamma is already on me. (I will bet money Gamma is town and I know Vi is town)

Soooo we need a scenario of Ray to be town and C-Worl not to bother voting.
Or Katsuki to be town and have a change of heart, Ray Frost if mafia can't vote 'no winner' due to past comments.

I don't like these odds :/
Killing mykonain seems like the fatal blow here.

Gamma - I hope you have great instinct for your roleblocking

[Maxous]

Gamma-

3 scum - 5 town
I die
3 scum - 4 town
Night kill
3 scum - 3 town

DUM must not win regardless of his alignment. Cause I should be able to take out the night kill. A cop is useless when it's game over.

[Maxous]

Well I knew this was happening (obviously)

I enjoyed this game overall even though it was frustrating at times - The theme was interesting.
I don't think the situation with Red Coyote's flip affected anything really. It did'nt change anybody's reads and as a matter of fact the flip balanced it'self out along with AGM's choice of words (as in we knew there was only the scum-team left after Amrun's flip)
RayFrost's re-direction was a bit meh but the town had the potential to kill 3 times a day. We lost because we got the reads wrong.
Once Juls got NK'ed it went downhill.

From a personal standpoint: What was the best way to handle the unrequited lover situation I had?
I got freaked out that Vi was killing people unclaimed when I knew I could confirm somebody as 100% town, and then I really regreted opening my mouth about looking for somebody because it put more suspicion on me but if I said something the mafia would of just killed Vi and boom.
I was thinking of bluffing and saying I could only use Daylight if Cao-Cao was alive but that would of also put a red-mark on Vi. It's a role I never experienced before and I think it showed :p

Thank you for the moderation SpyreX and well done to the mafia team.

P-Edit: Oh yeah I will remember DK's claim for a long time xD

Another P-Edit: @Iecerint: I could of claimed Vi was town at any time.(since Cao-Cao was in my role PM)
Hence my disbelief of your 'suspicion'. I would'nt of allowed her lynch.
Though you were arguing it so hard I was trying to decide if you were lying or just really confused

[Maxous]

That post with the duel screamed town to me, though.

T-Bone's post on dueling Iec?
I disagree, simply because when I thought about it - it was the worst move he could make as town could make but the best move he could make as mafia. I mentioned that at the time.
I remember finding it weird that he chose Iec to duel rather than his other stronger 'suspects' and thought it was plausible they were buddies but

i never followed up on that

.
In hindsight Iec simply would of just used dragon day and I think I would of considered him confirmed town.
That was a clever character claim by the way Iec, choosing somebody that was a very plausible beloved prince.