Dynasty Warriors Mafia (Shu Victorious)

[Magister Ludi]

/Con the Firms

[Magister Ludi]

I'm already ready to have you two duel to the death.

[Magister Ludi]

Gamma, so your power means we could have two people duel it out to mutual death, and then lynch again?

[Magister Ludi]

Vote: Rayfrost

His comment about being scum is worthy of a vote.

Toasty is also worth keeping an eye on. The only reason a mind would wonder to the possibility of two ro more scum teams is if the known composition of your own scum team is not very strong or large.

C-Worls 81 looks like a vote park with an easy transition to a any forming wagon. Dislike.

----------

As for Flavor about more scum teams, we have

Wu

with the Quan family,

Shu

with Lui Bei, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, and possibly a serial killer along the lines of Dong Zhou or Lu Bu.

Each probably interact favorably with duels somehow

[Magister Ludi]

I missed that. Definently voteable.

[Magister Ludi]

I'm voting someone because their intial statement was bad, and their follow up play of mostly duel speculation hasn't influenced me at all to move my vote off. That is content.

[Magister Ludi]

I never said Toasty was scum. What I did however mention was that Toasty raised the possibility of there being multiple scum teams when nothing I have seen in this game suggest that.

However, should we indeed be speculating on the possibilities of scum teams, I laid out my thoughts. And as for those three, simply playing the games will give you a good idea why I choose those three for Shu.

[Magister Ludi]

It is the genesis of an idea that is important.

Toasty announced an idea that I was not thinking about, the fact for multiple scum teams. Possibly it was innocent. Possibly it came from the fact he knew his scum team was weak, and lackadasically wondered aloud.

In this context, it is worth keeping an eye on toasty's play. However, now that the idea is out there, being that I love Dynasty Warriors, I saw fit to mention what the possiblity of multiple sucm teams would look like, to frame the game in an understandable reference if you had no flavour knowledge.

It also appears you DID know why I choose those three characters of Shu, (being principle proponents/brothers) yet saw fit to try painting my expression of Shu as somewhat maligned or weird or anti-town. I do not think it was at all. As for Wu, its your guess as good as mine, considering that the Quan family has four members plus sisters.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'information reveal'. Go ahead and speculate on the anti-town factions in this game as well, i'm interested what you think is approprite, since you are a fellow Dynasty Warriors/ Three Kingdoms Player.

[Magister Ludi]

I've played every Dynasty Warriors game basically.

Toasty, what lead you to believe in two scum teams?

[Magister Ludi]

Also, Rayfrost, I'd rather not go endlessly in circles about the flavor, but Wu simply has too many people to neatly fit into a scum group of three. There are the four members of the Sun family, sisters and daughters. About 8 people total I think. Shu has nicely three. The three princible characters.

(Also, Iece, that is a sneaky speculation about Sima Yi. That would be cruel :p)

[Magister Ludi]

Though I completley disagree with RayFrost I can see almost see where he is coming from with his vote on me based on his interpretations of my play. I believe I showed a clear progression of my thought, from suspecting toasty for establishing the idea of two scum teams when none exsisted, (but since I know a lot about Dynasty Warriors) sharing my own thoughts about what the make up of these two scum teams could possibly be. I don't think this is at all contradictary, he does. Which is why we each have the ability to vote whomever we like.

I also view he wariness of people randomly calling him town as a slight town tell. Throwing out 'town-reads' is an easy way for anti-town factions to begin manipulating opinion about them because physological people are much less inclined to lynch or view disfavorably other people who agree with them.

However, Iecerint's and Katsuki's vote on this wagon is terrible. Iecerints intial vote is just weak. It is a vote over an assumed number of scum on hypothetical two scum team make up (which we have no idea about). My assumption of three people to Shu actually makes a lot of sense, four for two seperate teams is widely unbalanced and needs special consideration to balance it (that game he later linked has multiple compensations). So, yes, I rule out the possibility of four and assume three.

Unvote [:b]

Vote: Iecerint

The rest of his postings have been fixations and derivations on a similiar theme, and repitition of the fact he has discovered me 'scumslipping'.

Katsuki I just played with as scum. Same method of operation as that game. Very weak votes. I dont understand at all why his vote is one me (Is it because of Iecerints comment? because he thinks he's got a secret tells? etc?), and yet he has the gall to announce that CSL has a weak vote "Bandwagon vote detected!" Why is CSL vote a bandwagon vote and your not? What is the distinction?

His vote definently feels like a vote park with minimal effort to comment on other people as the day drags on. It is a common theme between Kat and Iec actually.

Important: This thread has also seen a slow evolution into a readily held belief that there are two scum teams. No one is talkign about a larger 5 or 6 person anti-town faction, most are fixated on three or four 'per team' and what this means. This minorly confirms my intial thoughts on Toasty.

[Magister Ludi]

As for your plan juls, what is the advantage of doing that as opposed to dueling your strongest scum read and sending scum to death instead of potentially empowering a town player.

I would rather a soon to be mislynched townie take one scum to an early grave then give one town player a power-up

[Magister Ludi]

Gamma, what made me think about that is the almost 'alternative' way of lynching we have in this game. Almost all games I've read that have such a method give scum some way to 'balance it out'.

Lights out games have a scum ability to send day into night.
Multiple lynch games usually have day-talk.
That dating show had some ability I think.

I would invision such a role, if it exsists, would potentially end the day if there is a duel currently, or swap into a duel, or some other such thing.

-----------------

Iecerint is basically continuing to stonewall around here and fixate primarily on one thing, a supposed scumslip he found. It's an easy tactic to use as scum, most players use it, and its quite effective. Tunnel over a minor issue on a town player, throw out a few reads and speculation and coast through as town chops itself to bits. I see exactly this in his play.

[Magister Ludi]

Icereint

1. I still have no real feeling he is pushing hard on anyone in this game. His voting for me is tepid at best, consisting mainly of one incident he considers important.

2. He hasn't made it clear what his views on any other players in this game are besides a short 'I'd rather lynch ek over amrun'.

3.Besides doing those actions I consider more scum sided than towm sided, he hasn't been doing much-- if anything-- in the way of town motivated dealings. A natural curiosity and inquisition is missing form his posts. They feel very survivalistic. (its hard to pinpoint exactly what this look like, but his whole iso taken together gives me this feeling)

-----

I have no idea how e_K has a solid town read on Iecerint either. Could you explain what you see there that I might of missed?

The DUM and Amrun wagons are interesting, and I both are more than likely on town. I especially don't know how Amrun is even contemplated about being run up to a lynch.

If I had a second or third choice, I would join a toasty wagon should it appear or inhim. toasty's case on DUM is weak, and his weird push on katsuki doesn't sit right with me either.

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote

Vote: Toasty

This is a good wagon not just because of his play but also because I have town reads on most people on it.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually toasty, I am leaning town on everybody on your wagon.

(kat, amrun, dum, myself, Gama, Alamaster {maybe less so alamaster})

Helping influence this is People of bad standing on these reads (inhim, you, bastard on DUM, diety on kat. elvis greyice on Amrun)

Also, do you still believe in this
"sigh...your misunderstanding me. People are going to want to duel, regardless of what the town is thinking. In a situation i which a person is ABSOLUTELY convinced that another is scum, and they believe they have enough evidence to convince the town (which must be done regardless of the duel mechanic), then I feel they have enough reason to start said duel. A duel implies that its not town-vs-suspect--it, at its root, is still one player versus another. Dueling a person forces everyone to pay attention."

Would you be willing to duel inhim?

A INHIM vote! Gold.

[Magister Ludi]

I'm not sold on Red one way or the other. I had him a as town pages back, but not so much anymore.

[Magister Ludi]

Iece, what does it matter that you wanted to be Zhang He? That statement has no relevance on anything.

Toasty, this is important, is this all your role says: "I am Zhang He of the Five Generals of Wei. "

[Magister Ludi]

Vote: inhim

I'd rather have inhim duel Iece and both die. I could get on board with someone else however. Juls, mykonian. Either is fine with me, unless on person benefits more from winning.

[Magister Ludi]

I don't mind this. Would rather of had inhim vs Iece, though.

Save : myko

[Magister Ludi]

Things Needing Adressment:

Gamma, did you gain anything from winning the duel? I know Max asked this, but What is the flavor behind being able to duel twice everyday?

Why did you need Elvis to claim?

Myko, did you know two votes would end the duel?

~~~~~~
The one night kill is also interesting. It might be possible if there are more than one team that they forgot it was an auto-night and didn't sumbit a kill.

I still see Iece concentrating mainly on flavor. Still voteable.

Will look into Juls nightkill. Check out the town/scum reads.

"I will not answer to the actions of my predecessor as it isn't fair for me to discern the motives of his posts. So if I disagree with something he said, oh well. It happens."

This screams scum from T-Bone. If you replace into a town slot, you know the reads of your predessor were coming from town so no need to worry. If you replace into scum, oh **** you are worried about stepping on people's toes and need to apologize.

[Magister Ludi]

Juls:

1. Last posts expressed suspicion of mykonian, AGM and Iece several times.

2. Likes GreyICE

3. Last town to scum list "If you need explanations just ask, but I want this out before gamma duels.
Town
Gammagooey
Magister Ludi
Maxous
AGM
Vi
elvis_knits
GreyICE

RedCoyote

Katsuki

ToastyToast

mykonian
Amrun
C-Worl
DietyKabuto
Bastard Bros

inHim

RayFrost
DUM
Iecerint
Scum"

RedCoyote:

Juls

--Gamma-

inHim

--Max-Vi-elvis----AGM-mykonian-Grey--ML-Kat-DUM-DK[∙]-BB-RF----

Toast

-Iec-CWorl-Amrun-----------

Lets see. Similarities include

Gamma, Max, Vi, elvis, AGM

being pretty solidly town. If RC had buddies, I would expect him to put them into the low-midrange area and not push them to heavily.

~~~~~~~
Anyways, I think the lynch today should come from among Iece or T-Bone [replacing Bastard] (one post is all it took). A lynch of anyone else is not optimal.

[Magister Ludi]

T-Bone, playing some sort of odd game of brinksmanship and subtle threats "But nice that you two (AGM, Ludi) quickly jump on something very insignificant, I'll keep that in mind." (what does this even mean??) isn't going to get you anywhere.

ANyways, I'd like your thoughts on the following players: Iecerint, elvis (being as this day will seemingly revolve around her), and Deity Kabuto.

[Magister Ludi]

Gamma, it is highly possible Juls was killed because she either had awesome reads or she was too 'town looking' (or multi-team other team thought she was scum, but this doesn't seme likely) Too often a player with correct reads is killed and then forgotten about the next day. It pays to look back at what she thought.

Comparing with Red is interesting, because he was an anti-town faction. Thus, he knew who a greater number of town were, so he would be more likely to put the town as town. And if he had buddies, he would likely put them in mid-range low area, but not too low.

What I was looking for was two things. Concurrent town reads from both (which would make them more likely to be town) and a scum read of Juls that Red had in the middle zone, a perfect place to but a potential buddy.

[Magister Ludi]

This game...

Save: elvis

[Magister Ludi]

Not to mention multiple shot daykillers, multiple non-dayending duelists, duels appearing out of nowhere and other such crazyness.

[Magister Ludi]

Vi, Gamma and Max (?) have claimed such abilities. (nondayending duelists)

[Magister Ludi]

T-Bone should duel Iece.

Amrun, how come you want elvis to claim targets but not Gamma? (who is a RB)

[Magister Ludi]

And while they stood aside and watched
the town consumed itself
they laughed

Vote: No winner

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, T-Bones last post was very town sounding. Shit.

[Magister Ludi]

Maybe we can test both of these? We vote for T-Bone to win up until one less than supposeably needed, and then he should win, but Iece won't die, and then... Two confirmed town? Does confirming these abilities confirm them as town?

[Magister Ludi]

I would vig among Kat or C-Worl.

Who did you roleblock last night, Gamma?

[Magister Ludi]

Are we massclaiming? I must of missed the memo.

[Magister Ludi]

Killing elvis is an absolute terrible idea. The best shot probably falls between Kat, Cworl and maybe Rayfrost.

This duel needs to end in no winner now, which would mean Iece wins (apparently) and is thus probably confirmed town because a non-third party scum with that ability is over-powered.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, recalibrating on the DUM read.

Voting T-Bone to win this duel is bad.

His fake claim is bad.

And his town-scum list in his iso 16 is also suspect.

Pushing on seemingly town day vig-Vi? Also bad.

[Magister Ludi]

"I think Ludi will get lynched soon after T-Bone flips scum."

Huh? This statement is weird. There is no logical connection behind this statement

"...No. I can't bring myself to duel DUM. Ludi, I don't think his claim is fake - at least, not the abilities."

I'm not asking you to duel him, simply to look over his iso and potentially Vig him. His claim smells exactly how I invision a fake claim would look in this game, and it seems to fit nicely.

Amrun is a bad shot right now. With other potential flips much more viable, possibly implicating or clearing her, and other people doing far more egregious things, vigging her is not a smart play.
1.)Katsuki

2.)Vi

3.)Iecerint

5.)Gammagooey

8.)Magister Ludi

9.)DUM
10.)mykonian
11.)Bastard Bros

12.)Maxous

16.)RayFrost
17.)C-Worl
18.)Amrun

20.)elvis_knits

AlmasterGM

-

1 - GreyICE -

(L-9)
Amrun -

1 - elvis_knits -

(L-9)
Drunken Unicorn Master - 4 -

InHimshallibe,

Maxous,

ToastyToast,

Bastard Bros - (L-6)

GreyICE

- 1 - C-Worl - (L-9)
Iecerint - 2 - RayFrost,

Juls

- (L-8)

InHimshallibe

- 1

- Vi

- (L-9)
Katsuki - 1 -

DietyKabuto

- (L-9)

Magister Ludi

- 1 - Iecerint - (L-9)

ToastyToast

- 6 - Katsuki,

Gammagooey, AlmasterGM

,

RedCoyote,

Amrun, Drunken Unicorn Master,

Magister Ludi -

(L-4)

Not voting: Myko

I took some liberties with this. Ignore it if you want, I think it is actually quite helpful. I think there is a definite DUM-BB/Tbone connection. If Iece also proves to be town, Rayfrost looks worse, and C-worl is just bad.

Lynch Vig List ASAP

C-Worl
DUM
Katsuki
~~~~
Pending those we'll move onto Amrun Rayfrost.

myko is a wild card.

[Magister Ludi]

Just checked on.

That was anti-town.

I'm not claiming for such a terrible duel and poor reasons. You've just done what you berated T-Bone for doing.

[Magister Ludi]

I'll explain more eloquently when I'm not about to head out, but you are going to lose this duel.

Vote: Myself

[Magister Ludi]

"Ludi to me looks like town tripping over himself and people ganging up on him for it, ESPECIALLY with the Wu flip basically showing that the slip Iec went on about for the entire damn day doesn't exist at all. His reads and suspicions aren't great but I think he's trying to be helpful and his dueling ability speculation, iso 15, and iso 17 all look like town thought processes."

Last post detailing from you detailing me. No written post by you in any detail shows a change until today. (that was on Sunday that previous post)

Scum ability: Check (roleblocker)
Dueling wantonly: Check
Horrible Reads: Check
Overbereance of Belief in Own Towniness: Check

[Magister Ludi]

I don't see how my claim would change anything at all regarding people opinion on me. Either I am town or not. It will be beneficial when I win this duel that I have not claimed.

As for Gamma being town, I had him/her as town until this poorly thought through duel was initiated, and I have reversed my read. At any case, I am not going to vote myself to lose this duel, and every flipped initiating duelist (Lu Bu and Guan Yu) so far has flipped anti-town.

Gamma insistent repetition of "Ludi is scum" "so scum" is a rather poor argument, merely repeating the same statement many times to get it to sink in. If I lose, he will merely tuck his tail between his legs and say he was wrong and needs to 'recalibrate' or some other such thing.

He will then attempt to get away scot free. Seriously, on a reread, I have had trouble identifying what he has done that is particularly town sided. His role is equally as likely scum as town, he has pushed on a ton of town players, and is generally closed lipped.

As for 'not suspecting t-bone' I nailed that joker on his first post in the game and didnt back off except for one statement on his post that in fact DID sound town.

[Magister Ludi]

Rayfrost, I question why you trust Gamma instead. That is a very weak vote to join up on siddle into this duel.

Max, I not going to claim my character name because that highly implies what my role is.

If you think I am not town enough to have me lose, vote that.

If however, you look at Gamma's actions here today and the subsequent days, and I can quote these actions again, and realize that the play here has been very anti-town, vote him.

[Magister Ludi]

Max, I dont understand your reasoning. Yes I had a town read on Gamma. Then he did a majorly anti-town thing. I reread. I think he is scum. I am not going to waffle around and not save myself when I know I am town.

Can we get the RC part of the DUM hydra back? That one made a lot more sense.

At this point, I need DUM to switch back, Vi to re-vote Gamma, Iece to join me and Kat as well. Not sure where myko is.

That will lynch Gamma.

[Magister Ludi]

I am not going to claim. Period.

Vi, I have described exactly what Gamma has done that is scum sided, and comes from scum mindset. I cant present it any more, and you've been reading the game as well.

You know rushing into duels is anti-town.

His role is anti-town.

And his reads are anti-town.

The one thing I am not going to do is give the scum even more insight into a set-up that is already pretty much game over for them.

Iece suggestion earlier that one scum team operates solely within the day makes sense. It quite possibly could be Gamma. no way there have been one night kill on three nights in a row.

[Magister Ludi]

I am appealing to you right now because you're not on this wagon and have the potential to hammer.

I never said it was game over for scum. It is heavily scum leaning right now.

[Magister Ludi]

Gamma: character claim.

[Magister Ludi]

Pointing out and finding scum is

not

a scum tell.

C-Worl, how do you explain the complete 180 Gamma did on my slot? The last mention of me he had was declaring me

"town tripping over his own feet"

And then today he duels instantly (which we've already decided was anti-town) and says I am scum. What do you think explains this?

[Magister Ludi]

I am not going to be around for the end of this duel.

Lynch Gammagooey

[Magister Ludi]

Gamma, your antics this game were pretty much anti-town, the duel mechanic should have been used for two very scum players to both be killed, essentially doubling as two lynches.

As for claiming, It I see no reason to at any point in any game. Would people really have stopped and said 'wow, he claimed. Must be town!!'

Vi, I think you need to consider vig shots more carefully. Or at all hehe.

I really have no idea where people got their scum reads from in this game. How were people ignoring Iece all of day one again?

Toasty wagon I was right on, every player on it was town. Unfortunately, he was not scum.

[Magister Ludi]

Waiting at all for the day to progress would have been a much smarter move, we still had a slight chance at that point. Not to be concieted, but once I died I think the game was pretty much over.

I still maintain that calling out scum correctly is in fact NOT a scum tell.

Anyways, I'm a little bitter here right now, but still I lost and scum won. Take away things to improve my game, learn, and will be back next time.

[Magister Ludi]

Best Town Player:

Juls (seriously, check out her reads)
elvis

Best Scum:
Rayfrost (no one voiced any real suspicion after day one)

Best Part of Setup:
The Lu Bu Role

Critical Point:
Scum on Scum duel Day 3 ending in scum victory

(gamma, that its in my opinion a generally illogical and false path to find the scum, especially when you neglect to consider the entirety of the thread and players in whole. )

[Magister Ludi]

Why don't you want your quicktopic released Iece?

[Magister Ludi]

So you don't want it released because you think people will... find you silly? meh. Its your choice.

[Magister Ludi]

hehe You started about half the duels in this game gamma.

[Magister Ludi]

I actually stopped playing at about 4, the hack and slash go to me. Stories were great though. I was having the best time reading the encylopedia in the game.

[Magister Ludi]

People are so chatty once the game is over.

[Magister Ludi]

Scum QT now or else (@scum)