00s Band Mafia (Game Over!)

[Gaoth]

While I understand where you are coming from, even your analysis shows that when he is mafia, he still posts with greater consistency than he is in this game. Also, many of the games you ISOd are his really early games. Look at some his most recent games, particularly recent games where he flipped Scum. Completely different Nico. He's an experienced player. I'm positive he wouldn't be lurking to this extent if he was scum. Also, how many games is he in right now? Wouldn't you put a game where you are a VT on the back burner during early game if you had more involved games to deal with?

A vote for Nico at this point is a waste, since he hasn't done anything outside of lurking thats scum worthy. I don't get why you are pushing this so hard when there are scummier choices on the board. Hell, Pine thinks I'm scummier than Nico. I was his partner in the 90's game, and early on he was bussing me for reaction and he was very eager and excited in the quick topic. This is not the same Nico.

[Pine]

I'm comfortable enough that I'd like to hear your case on me now, EPM. I have every confidence that it will be easy to explain the flaws in your reasoning.

[Regfan]

I don't exactly agree with Post #471 by Evilpacman18, there's several flaws in it:

#0 - Coming into the game late isn't exactly a scum-tell nor is having similar reads to other people. Put yourself in her shoes for a second, can you understand those reads coming from town-Taron? Yes. Can, you understand them coming from scum-taron? Yes. Therefore it's a null-tell.
#1 - Not a blatant lie. She reviewed his early conclusion and realized it was incorrect.
#2 - Calling someone a "them" isn't a scum-tell.
#3 - The only thing about this that I agree with is that her being adamant that one of Pine/C-Worl are scum reads as overconfident.
#4, #5 - Factual information is a null-tell, there's town and scum motivation behind doing so.
#6 - Interesting, I'll re-read into this post later when I have time but first thought is that it's a null-tell.
#8 - This is a good point.

Tarson, I want your thoughts on ALL players in the game if that's not too much to ask

All up the case is weak, it revolves around you going into t he anaylsis already believing that Taron is mafia rather than judging her posts objectively. I'm interested in you explanding on your thoughts on Scumhunter and Nicodemus though.

So can we lynch tarson today and then I give my Pine case tomorrow and we lynch him tomorrow or should I just drop it all now? It'd be made stronger by tarson flipping scum though it doesn't require it.

Unvote, Vote: EPM

You've avoided addressing the colossal amount of flaws in your case on Tarson as well as refrained from questioning why certain players have town-reads on the player you suspect the most yet you continue to push it.

[nintendoaddict1]

Yeah, I'm not feeling Nicoscum either.

I'll try to get the second half up tomorrow night.

[Regfan]

While I understand where you are coming from, even your analysis shows that when he is mafia, he still posts with greater consistency than he is in this game. Also, many of the games you ISOd are his really early games. Look at some his most recent games, particularly recent games where he flipped Scum. Completely different Nico. He's an experienced player. I'm positive he wouldn't be lurking to this extent if he was scum. Also, how many games is he in right now? Wouldn't you put a game where you are a VT on the back burner during early game if you had more involved games to deal with?

A vote for Nico at this point is a waste, since he hasn't done anything outside of lurking thats scum worthy. I don't get why you are pushing this so hard when there are scummier choices on the board. Hell, Pine thinks I'm scummier than Nico. I was his partner in the 90's game, and early on he was bussing me for reaction and he was very eager and excited in the quick topic. This is not the same Nico.

He's in one other game at the moment only, and he hasn't posted in that game for three days I believe, his absence isn't a town-tell in any right. I understand that you believe he would be posting more and more eager as scum but it's entirely possible that he's realized that he's viewed as town via not posting often. For example he hasn't posted once you stated lack of activity from him is a town-tell.

Regardless, I'm comfortable lynching EPM at the moment I see no town-motivation for pushing a case that's been proven as incorrect while not even attempting to restate why my thoughts on it are invalid.

[evilpacman18]

I don't exactly agree with Post #471 by Evilpacman18, there's several flaws in it:

#0 - Coming into the game late isn't exactly a scum-tell nor is having similar reads to other people. Put yourself in her shoes for a second, can you understand those reads coming from town-Taron? Yes. Can, you understand them coming from scum-taron? Yes. Therefore it's a null-tell.
#1 - Not a blatant lie. She reviewed his early conclusion and realized it was incorrect.
#2 - Calling someone a "them" isn't a scum-tell.
#3 - The only thing about this that I agree with is that her being adamant that one of Pine/C-Worl are scum reads as overconfident.
#4, #5 - Factual information is a null-tell, there's town and scum motivation behind doing so.
#6 - Interesting, I'll re-read into this post later when I have time but first thought is that it's a null-tell.
#8 - This is a good point.

Tarson, I want your thoughts on ALL players in the game if that's not too much to ask

All up the case is weak, it revolves around you going into t he anaylsis already believing that Taron is mafia rather than judging her posts objectively. I'm interested in you explanding on your thoughts on Scumhunter and Nicodemus though.

So can we lynch tarson today and then I give my Pine case tomorrow and we lynch him tomorrow or should I just drop it all now? It'd be made stronger by tarson flipping scum though it doesn't require it.

Unvote, Vote: EPM

You've avoided addressing the colossal amount of flaws in your case on Tarson as well as refrained from questioning why certain players have town-reads on the player you suspect the most yet you continue to push it.

Tbh I haven't read since that case which is why I missed the post you quoted here. I'll respond to it when I feel like writing a lot again.

[C-Worl]

See? Name-claiming is stupid. Scumhunting is muy delicioso.

Maybe do some then?

EWBOP:

Unvote, Vote: Nintendoman

Fantastic scumhunting there, dude. Great case.

Love how EPM hadn't done any scum hunting before this post. Hypocrite.

No, what I mean is there's a difference in D1 and D2. D1 is normally a battle to see who ends up getting lynched, what they flip as, and then you can use that for the future. Therefore, I'm trying to see who is scummier and my methods while unconventional normally do work. What I'm doing may seem like sheeping but that's not what I'm doing.

Oh, ok. That I get. For a second there it sounded you you flat out didn't care and if you didn't, you're useless to the rest of us(No offense). I've played with several players that think this way and that kind of dad weight kills a game fast. So for now.

Unvote

Remember how I said Scumhunter did backing down right? This is backing down done wrong.

Unvote, Vote: Talapus

Backing down so quickly and not revoting? Bad.

Oh hey. Not revoting would be a problem if he had actually unvoted something but his only prior vote was old on Scumhunter.

Vote:Talapus

Not seeing the Gaoth case.

Wait what? So, diddin's reason isn't good enough but you're voting him anyway bc you don't see a case on another player?

Those are the posts of EPM's that appeared scummy to me. HOWEVER, a larger portion of his other posts look town to me. We shouldn't be voting him right now.

[chesskid3]

unvote

Vote; EPM

regfan/epm interaction looks like distancing though.

Anyhow I'll read up later

[Nicodemus]

Mod: replace me please.

Sorry for not posting. Hopefully my replacement will be able to give this game the time it deserves.

[diddin]

Oh look Nico flaked *surprise*

[nintendoaddict1]

Nicodemus:

Well, not much content, but I'm getting a bored VT read from this slot.

Overall: Null leaning Town.

Parabollocks:

I don't know what it is, but I'm getting a Town read form this. Contributing content, doesn't seem to be sheeping, (unless I missed something).

Overall: Town

Pine:

His initial vote on Chess was a bit fishy, but his play is not saying scum to me. He acted a bit different before when he was scum, so yeah. I think forgetting it is the encore song that makes the role was an oversight, but one that I see Town making.

Overall: Town.

Regfan:

In his first post, he suggests band claiming, though, I think he just misunderstood the rule he was referring to. Although, this makes me think his band wasn't formed until '00 or later. You had to go and mess this up, though, in ISO #8. You say that claiming less than a day into the game is idiotic. Your reads are well thought out and usually broken up into small parts, making them easy to reference. But the analysis of Talapus, who flipped Town, makes you look bad. I really don't know which way to go here, but your barely on the scum side of null.

Overall: Null slight lean scum.

Scumhunter:

Your first few posts I don't see much that is helpful. @ISO #12: No shit, Sherlocke. ISO #20 you vote Reg for voting Town D1. I'm sorry, who did you vote for that later flipped Town? Okay, I am against calling oneself obvtown, but caying oneself is not obvtown? That I can live with. I don't think SH is smart enough (no offense ) to do something like that based on his spell of trolling.

Overall: Null.

tarsonisocelot:

Okay, well ten posts isn't much, but it is enough to make you look pretty bad. Posting reads without reading through the thread thoroughly is not a good first impression. I really don't see Talapus' defense as being too much, I, for one, sometimes look extremely scummy when Town trying to defend myself. Surely I can't be the only one. Oh, and that vote on Talapus was bad.

Overall: Scum.

[evilpacman18]

See? Name-claiming is stupid. Scumhunting is muy delicioso.

Maybe do some then?

EWBOP:

Unvote, Vote: Nintendoman

Fantastic scumhunting there, dude. Great case.

Love how EPM hadn't done any scum hunting before this post. Hypocrite.

No, what I mean is there's a difference in D1 and D2. D1 is normally a battle to see who ends up getting lynched, what they flip as, and then you can use that for the future. Therefore, I'm trying to see who is scummier and my methods while unconventional normally do work. What I'm doing may seem like sheeping but that's not what I'm doing.

Oh, ok. That I get. For a second there it sounded you you flat out didn't care and if you didn't, you're useless to the rest of us(No offense). I've played with several players that think this way and that kind of dad weight kills a game fast. So for now.

Unvote

Remember how I said Scumhunter did backing down right? This is backing down done wrong.

Unvote, Vote: Talapus

Backing down so quickly and not revoting? Bad.

Oh hey. Not revoting would be a problem if he had actually unvoted something but his only prior vote was old on Scumhunter.

Vote:Talapus

Not seeing the Gaoth case.

Wait what? So, diddin's reason isn't good enough but you're voting him anyway bc you don't see a case on another player?

Those are the posts of EPM's that appeared scummy to me. HOWEVER, a larger portion of his other posts look town to me. We shouldn't be voting him right now.

You're drawing connections that aren't there in the second post. I thought Talapus was scummy but for different reasons than diddin. And not seeing the Gaoth case was unrelated. I just never expanded on why Talapus was scummy.

[evilpacman18]

I don't exactly agree with Post #471 by Evilpacman18, there's several flaws in it:

#0 - Coming into the game late isn't exactly a scum-tell nor is having similar reads to other people. Put yourself in her shoes for a second, can you understand those reads coming from town-Taron? Yes. Can, you understand them coming from scum-taron? Yes. Therefore it's a null-tell.
#1 - Not a blatant lie. She reviewed his early conclusion and realized it was incorrect.
#2 - Calling someone a "them" isn't a scum-tell.
#3 - The only thing about this that I agree with is that her being adamant that one of Pine/C-Worl are scum reads as overconfident.
#4, #5 - Factual information is a null-tell, there's town and scum motivation behind doing so.
#6 - Interesting, I'll re-read into this post later when I have time but first thought is that it's a null-tell.
#8 - This is a good point.

Tarson, I want your thoughts on ALL players in the game if that's not too much to ask

All up the case is weak, it revolves around you going into t he anaylsis already believing that Taron is mafia rather than judging her posts objectively. I'm interested in you explanding on your thoughts on Scumhunter and Nicodemus though.

So can we lynch tarson today and then I give my Pine case tomorrow and we lynch him tomorrow or should I just drop it all now? It'd be made stronger by tarson flipping scum though it doesn't require it.

Unvote, Vote: EPM

You've avoided addressing the colossal amount of flaws in your case on Tarson as well as refrained from questioning why certain players have town-reads on the player you suspect the most yet you continue to push it.

#0: I can see any posts coming from town and scum if I try hard enough. It's about what it seems more likely to come from.
#1: Where?
#2: True. It was worth noting.
#3: I won't accept that I'm wrong here until Pine has been killed. It's one of the biggest things about my case on him.
#4,5: #0 again. It's about context.
#6: I'm right.
#8: We agree on one thing at least.

And finally: So people have town reads on some of my scum reads... welcome to mafia. It happens.

[evilpacman18]

proven as incorrect

what is this?

[Regfan]

Nicodemus: Well, not much content, but I'm getting a bored VT read from this slot.

What do you use to differentiate between bored/lazy mafia and bored/lazy VT?

Regfan:
1: In his first post, he suggests band claiming, though, I think he just misunderstood the rule he was referring to. Although, this makes me think his band wasn't formed until '00 or later. You had to go and mess this up, though, in ISO #8. You say that claiming less than a day into the game is idiotic.

2: But the analysis of Talapus, who flipped Town, makes you look bad.

1. There's a difference between name/band claiming and role claiming.
2. Do you disagree with the anaysis on Talapus? Yes/No?

#0: I can see any posts coming from town and scum if I try hard enough. It's about what it seems more likely to come from.
#1: Where?
#3: I won't accept that I'm wrong here until Pine has been killed. It's one of the biggest things about my case on him.

0: If you can read their post from a town perspective and understand where they're coming from then it's not a scum-tell.
1: You quoted it yourself "Then I realised that you were probably better than to do something so obvious as scumbuddies and revised my read accordingly." which shows re-analysis and a change of opinion.
3: I don't understand. Tarson suspected that one of C-Worl/Pine were scum strongly, you believe Pine is scum strongly, so how is this a scum-tell for Tarson?

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry, I'm here.

I was busy wrapping up THAT GAME THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED.

Slaxx knows.

[Slaxx]

Searching for a Replacement for Nicodemus, if anyone wants to PM their friends they can

Demonhybrid, Tarsonisocelot, and Parabollocks have been prodded

[Slaxx]

Vote Count 2.02

Not Voting

: Nicodemus,

Tarsonisocelot (3)

: Nintendoaddict1, Gorilla, evilpacman18,

Diddin (3)

: Scumhunter, C-worl, Pine

C-worl

: Tarsonisocelot

Gorilla

: Demonhybrid

Scumhunter (2)

: Gaoth, Parabollocks

Evilpacman18 (2)

: Regfan, Chesskid3

Parabollocks

: Diddin
Day 2 Deadline is in 9 days.
With 14 alive, 8 are needed to lynch.

[nintendoaddict1]

Nicodemus: Well, not much content, but I'm getting a bored VT read from this slot.

What do you use to differentiate between bored/lazy mafia and bored/lazy VT?

Regfan:
1: In his first post, he suggests band claiming, though, I think he just misunderstood the rule he was referring to. Although, this makes me think his band wasn't formed until '00 or later. You had to go and mess this up, though, in ISO #8. You say that claiming less than a day into the game is idiotic.

2: But the analysis of Talapus, who flipped Town, makes you look bad.

1. There's a difference between name/band claiming and role claiming.
2. Do you disagree with the anaysis on Talapus? Yes/No?

I think generally someone as mafia would likely be at least active beyond five posts.

1. I know, I'm saying there may have been some misunderstanding on your part, or maybe my part if I misread that.
2. No. Because a lot of people (myself included) can and do look scummy at times like trying to defend yourself when Town.

[Regfan]

I think generally someone as mafia would likely be at least active beyond five posts.

As much as I can understand where you're coming from here it's wrong, there are multiple players that lurk to no end as scum. Nobody Special comes to mind as a prime example.

[diddin]

Just Warning Everyone: I will be V/LA until next Tuesday or so. I'll be on vacation in Atlanta for a week due to quizbowl nationals. I'm bringing my laptop so I'll be able to post sporadically but don't expect too much.

[nintendoaddict1]

I think generally someone as mafia would likely be at least active beyond five posts.

As much as I can understand where you're coming from here it's wrong, there are multiple players that lurk to no end as scum. Nobody Special comes to mind as a prime example.

Yet, that does not eliminate the possibility that Nico slot is Town.

[Regfan]

Yet, that does not eliminate the possibility that Nico slot is Town.

I'm not stating that it does, I'm stating lurking is not an indication of someone being town.

[nintendoaddict1]

Yet, that does not eliminate the possibility that Nico slot is Town.

I'm not stating that it does, I'm stating lurking is not an indication of someone being town.

Neither is being active.

[Regfan]

Neither is being active.

You're missing the point completly. You're stating you lean town on him due to lack of activity while also stating that activity isn't allignment related. In other words, you just admitted to contradicting yourself and won my vote.

Unvote, Vote: Nintendo