Mini 1179: Paranoia Mafia

[Umbrage]

WHERE DA COOKIES?

[Umbrage]

NO! I AM SK!!!

Vote: Vezokpiraka

This is a policy vote. The fact that he's a jester doesn't change my mind, I still want him dead.

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Why are we not lynching vezok?

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I've played with vezok a few times now, and he ALWAYS CLAIMS TOO EARLY. And as far as I know he's never fakeclaimed. Add that to the fact that he's always a deadweight who posts just enough to avoid being replaced and we have a super-duper D1 lynch.

@Lady Lambdadelta: As said in the signup thread, it depends on your idea of bastard modding.

I'd say this rules out any possibility of a jester. Jester's are universally regarded as bastardly.

Ergo, no reason not to kill vezok today.

Occult strikes me as overzealous town, although if he posts in eye-burning colours one more time I'm day-vigging him. The one thing that DOES bug me about him is that he says I'm an 'easy wagon', which would imply I've done something scummy, or otherwise note-worthy. So why wouldn't he dock me points along with Glass? Is a policy lynch proposal less interesting than a reaction to it?

[Umbrage]

OK, so with no jesters, I see absolutely no reason for anyone to fakeclaim SK. Or realclaim it for that matter. I'm using meta when I say that I think vezok is telling the truth.

Which might make the following seem kind of weird, but hey.

unvote, vote: Occult

Your latest post is the scummiest thing I've read in a long long time. You're basically saying that you did something 'asinine' on purpose to get reactions, yes?

Tell me, how is what you did different from what Surye just did? Let me tl; dr things for you:

1) Occult votes for a stupid reason.
2) Surye votes Occult for voting for a stupid reason.
3) Occult votes Surye, saying that it was all a big trick. Occult says that Surye is trying to get a lynch for a stupid reason. Occult says he wants a lynch on Surye.

Do you see the hypocrisy? Let me point it out: saying you want a lynch on someone because they wanted a lynch on you for the same reason you now want a lynch on them is stupid and scummy. Mostly scummy.

I don't buy your little OH IT WAS A TRAP FOR SCUM excuse. Surye could say his vote on you was a purposely asinine thing he did to catch scum, and he'd have the same credibility that you do now.

You are lying. If you really wanted to set up a trap for scum you could've done a way better job than some math bullshit. I think that was a real play style you had, and when everybody complained, you tried to back out and say it was all a set-up. Trouble is, TOWN DOESN'T DO THAT. Town would either go "OK, I guess I'll change" or "nah, I'm gonna keep doin this". Only SCUM would go "WHAT ME DO SOMETHING BAD NO WAY THIS WAS MY PLAN ALL ALONG HAHA".

Yes Glass, it's all true, God popped out of my closet and gave me the flow chart. He also gave me a spy glass that allows me to look into the very souls of man and a 1st edition holographic Charizard.

As for cooldog, I don't know if that reaction is scummy an SK claim is an SK claim, even if its not believable, I'd say keep an eye on him.

What is this? What does this say? What does it mean? What points are you trying to make? This is just empty bullshit thrown in to try and make it look like you're saying something useful.

[Umbrage]

LOL.
It was page one in RVS. I wasn't claiming SK lol.

SEE?

NOW THIS IS A TOWN POST.

'LOL JUST KIDDING' IS TOWN.

'IT WAS A SNEAKY TRAP I PLANNED FROM THE START' IS SCUM.

OCCULT DON'T ACT ALL OUTRAGED OVER GETTING LYNCHED FOR A STUPID REASON WHEN YOU ADMIT TO DOING SOMETHING STUPID. KARMA'S GONNA FUCK YOU OVER.

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LLD, you say more with a smiley than most of these clowns do in a paragraph. I love you. Marry me.

IS is scummy. Yes, thank you, I did notice Occult panicked and lied, as evidenced by my post where I said Occult panicked and lied.

Occult still takes the prize, though.

As for IS, he tried to pull this BS on my last game, i posted a weird little post at the beginning he jumped on my ass, dragging a few votes with him and when the dust cleared we lynched anti-town instead of myself. He is always willing to lynch whether the person is town/scum it doesn't matter, he'll lead a lynch on a townie and then pass the blame off to the rest of the wagon later in the game, it's just his default action, hell, he may have not even read his role PM yet. IS is a shining beacon of jackassary to us all, what would we do without him .

Oh, so now we should lynch IS? What happened to that beautiful trap you used to catch Surye-scum?

You're the one acting quite angry, I owned up to my gaffe, admitted that it looks pretty damn bad and all I did was ask the town was to scumhunt a bit more

(as a p3 lynch does not help town)

and to let me experiment with the status system. It's nice of you to ignore the point of my last post

in an attempt to lynch me asap.

Why is

a quick lynch

so beneficial for town that you are willing to

attempt to shut me up

(and any kind of discussion) with that kind of post? Reread my post (if you even read it in the first place) and then come back to me with a response.

The bolded is fear-mongering. NOBODY said a THING about a P3 lynch or any kind of quicklynch on you. You are trying to dodge the issue. Allow me to illustrate:

UMBRAGE: I think Occult is scum. Here's why: blah blah blah.

OCCULT: You can't lynch me P3, that's bad!!!

UMBRAGE: Uh, nobody said anything about a P3 lynch...

OCCULT: Try reading my posts next time instead of mudslinging!!!

If you would step off your preaching box and rejoin the real world, you may note that you have not addressed a single thing I said, other than to reaffirm your position that your early vote was a trap. Sadly, the fact that you are no longer bothering to follow through on that trap.

Nothing gets a game out of RVS faster then posting something asinine, it also helps you find someone willing to wagon for very little reson this early in the game and we have our first taker for a scummy vote.

VOTE: Occult
How is a single vote "starting a wagon"? Reaching like crazy in that post.

vote Surye

now all I did was FoS glass for the vote, piling the third vote on me for as something as small as that tells me that, you sir are eager to throw down a lynch.

The FoS isn't the problem so much as you said something damning towards him which WAS NOT TRUE. He was not jumping on an easy wagon, or any wagon at all, but you tried to paint it that way. Definitely worth a vote, and a wagon. Nice recovery though "I was scummy on purpose to catch scum"

This is the person you claim to have got with a trap. You haven't responded to this in any way. WHY? HE'S THE PLAYER YOU'RE VOTING. HE'S YOUR #1 SUSPECT. WHY AREN'T YOU TRYING TO GET HIM LYNCHED? WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO GET IS LYNCHED INSTEAD?

Could it be because IS is pressuring you? Just as Surye was pressuring you when you came up with your 'trap'?

You've been overreacting the whole game. When somebody thought your play was bad, you changed it. When more people voted you, you started whining about a quicklynch. TOWN DOES NOT DO THIS.

Town focuses on scum, and getting them lynched.

YOU'VE been focused on avoiding your own lynch.

And that is why we're all voting you.

[Umbrage]

That puts Occult at L-2.

[Umbrage]

My vote aint changing. OccultScum needs to hang.

And Umbrage, all the smilies in the world dont explain why Lamda suddenly switched to me. Are her smilies traps too? She can twitch all she wants, but how useful is she really going to be as we progress?

-points at you-

-twitch-

-holds up rope-



-points at Occult-

-holds up rope-

My name is Umbrage and I endorse this product and/or service.

I find IS scummy because:

a) He repeated my case on Occult.
b) He really wants Occult dead soon.

I doubt they're on the same team, but yes, it is possible, even likely both are scum. I would prefer to see Occult die first, though.

I accept that today is more then likely my lynch but let's not end the day too early.

Again with the quicklynch crap.

[Umbrage]

Shit. Completely forgot about this game.

LLD is scum.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

Tunneling on IS = going for easy lynch

So far today all LLD's done is tunnel on IS using the NK WIFOM as an excuse.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with vezok, but hey.

ani may also be scum, not sure yet. LC is a gut scum read for me.

And, um, yeah that's it.

[Umbrage]

@ LC: Tunneling isn't scummy. I never said it was. Nice twisting of my words, scum.

[quote=]from what ive seen she likes to yell, argue, and freak out on people, i doubt she would give up what she really likes to do.[/quote]

Exact same thing could be said about IS. He's not obvious enough to make a Hiraki kill. Any argument to the contrary is scummy WIFOM.

@ LLD: So, let me get this straight. You're voting me because:

a) I was absent for 10 days.

FYI, the mod told me that I wasn't able to post until prodded sometime last day. After that I just plain forgot about this game. Regardless, not a valid reason to vote somebody.

ARGUMENT STRENGTH: 2/10

b) I'm attacking you and you have a post restriction.

Having a post restriction doesn't make you OMGCONFTOWN or you'd have been dead by now. This post restriction clearly doesn't stop you from scumhunting, or even from saying whatever you want to say since you've been 'bending the rules'. I'm not giving you a handicap this game. So stop with the 'OH NOES I HAS A RESTRICTION EVERYONE PITY ME' bullshit.

ARGUMENT STRENGTH: 1/10

c) I'm certain of my reads.

Am I? Maybe I just wanted you to think I was certain so I could get an OMGUS from you. Maybe I wanted to test other people's reactions to a wagon. Give me some credit. I'm way better than that.

ARGUMENT STRENGTH: 1/10

d) I have a gut scum read.

Uh, OK, I have no idea what to say to this.

ARGUMENT STRENGTH: 0/10

e) My vote was opportunistic.

Yeah, right. Because you're so close to being lynched right now. Sure.

ARGUMENT STRENGTH: 0/10

f) Pure OMGUS.

Yep! I think this is the one!

ARGUMENT STRENGTH: OH FOR FUCK'S SAKE, WHAT ELSE DO YOU GUYS NEED?

[Umbrage]

-points at your blatant misrepresentation of an easy target-

-points at arbitrarily assigned numerical values that aid your argument but aren't valid-

-points at rope-

BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

^ is all bullshit. Note how LLD says I'm misrepping her, but doesn't bother to clarify her opinion. If I truly was in the wrong, why wouldn't she prove it?

I'm going to lurk for a while to try and spot LLD's buddies. I'll leave all the lynch related whining up to you guys.

[Umbrage]

when did i EVER say that IS was scummy because hiraki ended up dead? wtf?

Maybe you didn't. Can't remember. Just wanted to get that in there.

why would LLD be dead if she was obvtownw ith a posting restriction? this is total wifom just like hiraki.

Fuck. I can't deal with this level of stupidity. Read my posts again or shut up.

[Umbrage]

@ ani: I don't think it makes LC town, it's a rather big leap to assume that they have the same role. I'm sure that if LC really was confirmed the mod would've ended or restarted the game, that's a serious fuck-up. Telling people who they are replacing is quite different from telling them their role. I can easily see sending out correct PMs and then saying the wrong names. The good news is that scum don't want to confirm townies, so this is the main reason I'm not pushing for your lynch.

@ CooLDoG: Sometime yesterday I got a PM from the mod telling me I couldn't post until I was prodded. That's why I vanished for the last part of the day. Occult's lynch happened before my time ran up, so I never got the prod and forgot about the game until now.

[Umbrage]

CooLDoG is town. He's not tunneling, he's not bandwagoning, and he's not buddying anyone. I dare say he's the towniest player in the game.

Me thinks Umbrage est indignant town of those defending IS. He should GetTFO LLD tho, or LC on that matter.

No.

Your weak defense of LLD has been noted.

[Umbrage]

I can't remember ever seeing an entire scum team in on a non-lylo mislynch. Which brings us back to LLD and Lobster.

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@ nopoint: How many games have you been in prior to this one?

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WAHWAH I HAVE A POST RESTRICTION THEREFORE I AM ENTITLED TO DO NOTHING EXCEPT YELL FOR RANDOM LYNCHES AND OMGUS WHENEVER SOMEONE ATTACKS ME

^ lynchable scum ^

Vezok's play is

shit

normal. This is actually the most pro-town I've ever seen him.

[Umbrage]

-shrug-

-walks to the gallows-

-puts noose around own neck-

-pretends to hang-

-points at CoolDog and Umbrage-

-points at them only attacking post restriction and nothing else.-

-gives town meaningful look-

-continues to hang-

I HAZ A POSTZ RESTRICTSHON SO SHUT UP

HEY DID U HEAR I HAZ A POSTZ RESTRICTSHON

I STILL HAZ A POSTZ RESTRICTSHUN

Y U ATTACK ME I HAZ POSTZ RESTRICTSHUN

I HAZ POSTZ RESTRICTSHUN SO I IZ PROTOWNZ

UMBRIDGE AN COOLDOG ATTACK ME AN I HAZ POSTZ RESTRICSHUN SO THERE SCUM

[Umbrage]

Under no circumstances will I hammer CooLDoG.

Just thought you should know.

CooLDoG is contributing to the game.

Lady has done fuck-all.

nopoint or ani are also acceptable lynch candidates.

[Umbrage]

I'm sure that the mod isn't an idiot. There are probably all sorts of wacky shennanigans going on.

That being said, I feel like the case on no point is good, so why are you all finding ways to ignore him and not vote for him? I'm suspicious of anyone not voting for nopoint right now.

I'm not feeling it. So far in my scum-hunting career it seems I'm better when I trust my gut. And my gut says LLD and ani are scum.

I think I've made my case on LLD clear, I'll be ISOing ani over the weekend to try and make sense of why I can't read the guy without my inner voice shouting "SCUM".

[Umbrage]

Cooldog, if what you say is true, then Occult also had JK powers as well.

I need to think about this...

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Cdog is scum for the way he posts. He's OMGUSING me because I'm voting him. He doesn't try to defend. Just get people off his wagon.

I think I'm voting LLD right?
Let's get this lynch over with.

Guess what? This game doesn't revolve around you. In fact, none of us would care if you died right now. Some of us would welcome it.

'The way he posts' is called pro-town posting. I can see why it would be alien to you. Try thinking outside of OMG HEZ VOTIN ME and fucking scumhunt.

[Umbrage]

What is with our status?

Is there any possibility that we have death millers?

Cdog is scum for the way he posts. He's OMGUSING me because I'm voting him. He doesn't try to defend. Just get people off his wagon.

Okay lets run through this.

CooLDoG points out legitimate reasons as to why you are scummy. He voters for you. You do not respond to any of his reasons
Then CooLDoG unvotes you because another person isn't answering his questions and is contributing even less to the game (yes LLD that be you).
The you say, "waaa, he da voting me... Waaaaa I don't want to be voted for its omgus.... waaaaaa. Don't lynch me!"

In other news I sent in a vote block on LLD. I'm sick and tired of her shit. And until she explains her reasons I don't think she should have the right to vote for somebody.

[Umbrage]

Nope.

[Umbrage]

Because vezok is VI epitomized.

[Umbrage]

Quit clogging the thread.

@ LLD:

-points at all your misreps this game-

WHAT MISREPS?

WHY CAN'T YOU 'POINT' BY QUOTING?

YOU HAVE NO TROUBLE QUOTING AND BOLDING TO MAKE A CASE.

SO WHY DON'T YOU DO IT TO DEFEND YOURSELF?

THE ONLY ANSWER IS THAT YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOU ARE SCUM.

[Umbrage]

-me yawns and stretches, acting lazy-

This part is true.

-me points to your defense of CoolDog-

-me points to your blatant cheerleading of CoolDog-

Attacking you =/= defending CooLDoG.

But I'm more than willing to give your case on CD a listen if you'd bring more than ad hominem to the table. Show me some good evidence of him being scummy and I'll reconsider my positions.

[Umbrage]

Shut up grownups are talking.

[Umbrage]

I started this wagon, back off.

No you didn't. I started it and you clung on to it with your teeth in a last ditch attempt to save your sorry ass.

[Umbrage]

I started this wagon, back off.

and what a tremendous 2 person wagon it is.

You're scum, you shut up too.

[Umbrage]

MY GOD SHE'S CURED!!!

[Umbrage]

And to directly answer, I count you as being on the Occult lynch. You supported it all the way, and it would be just like scum to switch to IS just to avoid suspicion. Why else would you push for his lynch the whole day but make sure to fall back on the "I didn't vote him" excuse when he flipped town?

[Umbrage]

I could care less about the vote restriction thing. I want less apologies and more lynching.

[Umbrage]

Uhhuh, if you were told that you could not post until you were prodded then why would you not mention that in the first post of the game after you got prodded? It seems like you have two excuses for not posting. Not to mention that if the mod did tell you that you could not post until you were prodded it happened while you were "calm", and that seems very unlikely to me.

Because I never got prodded. Occult was lynched first. I'm sure I explained all this.

Umbrage, you think that occult was lying about having JK powers? S:

No. That's not the problem.

^ SEE LLD WHAT I JUST DID IS CALLED RESPONDING TO CASES

STEP 1: TAKE THIS GAME AND THE PLAYERS IN IT SERIOUSLY

STEP 2: EXPLAIN LOGICALLY WHY YOU ARE NOT SCUM

IT'S REALLY EASY, WANNA TRY?

[Umbrage]

Main reasons I'm voting LLD are that:

a) her reasons for attacking IS are crap.

b) she jumps on wagons with no reasoning.

c) she doesn't defend herself, make reasonable attacks on people, or contribute to the game beyond poorly disguised OMGUS.

d) when confronted with the above, she merely shouts POST RESTRICTION and expects that to make her enemies vanish into thin air.

[Umbrage]

^ I said something similar to what IS said, I think. When you think about it, it's a good scum tactic.

IS thinks Occult is scummy, and starts a wagon on him. LLD says both IS and Occult are scummy and votes IS. Occult gets lynched, and LLD attacks IS.

It's the perfect plan. You get to push a wagon on a townie while staying off that wagon AND have a fall guy after the flip!

Add that to the fact that the NK was someone who found IS scummy, which LLD was really quick to point out. If IS really wanted to kill someone who found him scummy, why not LLD or myself? We were regarded as very pro-town, and were after IS a lot more than Hiraki. It doesn't make sense.

Here's Hiraki's post that LLD quoted:

Btw. Internet and Occult need to die.

This is the only time he expressed suspicion of IS.

BUT, here's something that WASN'T quoted:

Oh LLD. You said that already.

Anyway, you can stop copying hagsfads(I don't care if I butchered it), and do something useful now.

Not like I can't handle things myself, but y'know.

Just stop copying.

Keep in mind that this was AFTER the previous quote.

So: Hiraki tells off LLD and IS. Hiraki dies, and LLD is quick to blame IS. LLD expects you to believe that IS led a wagon on a townie WITHOUT HAVING A PLAN TO LOSE THE BLAME. This should raise a red flag for you. Scum is scared of being in on a mislynch. They always try to make an excuse, either by acting indecisive and sheeping others, or by setting the wagon rolling without laying a vote, like LLD did. IS did neither of these things. LLD also expects you to believe IS killed Hiraki to shut him up, even though that is SUCH AN OBVIOUS SCUM MOVE. No scum would want to kill someone who did had done nothing but point in their direction the day before. That's suicide.

I don't buy IS as scum, if he is, he's really incompetent. When I played with him as scum before, he was anything but incompetent. His D1 play looks like he really believed Occult was town. D2, he was still reeling, ends up starting a wagon on nopoint, which goes nowhere.

On the other hand, LLD neatly distanced herself from the Occult lynch and AS SOON AS DAY BROKE had her new 'IS scum' argument ready. The whole thing reeks of scum setting up lynches.

Think about it. If either LLD or IS killed Hiraki, they HAD TO come up with a plan to shift the blame somewhere else. Otherwise they would've been easily caught. Only LLD acted like she had a plan.

[Umbrage]

I KNOW YOU WERE JUST HERE LADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Umbrage]

DOES THAT MEAN WE CAN LYNCH YOU YOU SCUMMY WASTE OF A PLAYER SLOT? GOODY.

[Umbrage]

FUCK I COULD'VE SWORN I MADE A POST 15 MINUTES AGO

@ LC: Yes, it's possible that Hiraki was killed to shift blame on both IS and LLD, BUT nobody except LLD has tried to put the blame on ANYONE. So she's got to be scum.

Anyways, I HAVE A JAILKEEP NOW FUCK YEAH!!!

[Umbrage]

The next time I look at this thread LLD had better be lynched. That is all I am saying.

THEN TRY PLACING YOUR VOTE ON HER.

[Umbrage]

I got a Jailkeep because of my status. That's a confirmed fact.

I'm guessing LLD has a shot and IS doesn't because they are of different alignments and the mechanics affect them differently.

But I really don't care anyway. LET'S LYNCH SOME SCUM!

[Umbrage]

OOH NO WE'RE SO SCARED.

LC, vote LLD now or we lynch you instead.

LET'S SEE IF YOU'LL SHOOT YOUR SCUMBUDDY.

[Umbrage]

-points to my post about how all that means is that you have different alignments-

-points to the fact that you just outed yourself as scum-

[Umbrage]

MOD CONFIRMED?????? IN A PARANOIA THEMED BASTARD GAME??????????????

You make me laugh.

No, not really.

Die.

[Umbrage]

You just failed the town test.

A townie that believed IS was scum would've accepted my premise. Tried to convince me that IS was scum, not you. You, as a single townie, would've gladly agreed to be lynched if it meant proving IS was scum.

Unless of course, you couldn't risk getting lynched.

[Umbrage]

Why the hell would IS lie about having a gun? Scum want to look town. If IS is scum, he'd know you are town. He'd say he has a gun because you have one.

Just stop embarrassing yourself.

[Umbrage]

What the hell is ^ supposed to mean? Are you saying IS is town and is lying to avoid being NKed? By that logic, why did you claim vig?

And you're not even trying to adhere to your "post restriction" now. Better make another post about how you got a warning from the mod. Just make sure that's online this time, 'K?

[Umbrage]

SK???????????? WHAT THE FUCK??????????

THERE WAS ONE FUCKING NIGHTKILL.

ONE.

ONLY YOU AND IS HAD ANY REASON TO KILL HIRAKI.

THE GUY MADE FOUR FUCKING POSTS.

FOUR.

NO WAY DID HE ATTRACT

TWO

KILLS.

THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY THAT COULD HAPPEN IS IF BOTH YOU

AND

IS SHOT HIM.

IN WHICH CASE YOU JUST CLAIMED SCUM.

HAVE A NICE DAY.

[Umbrage]

OOH NO WE'RE SO SCARED.

LC, vote LLD now or we lynch you instead.

LET'S SEE IF YOU'LL SHOOT YOUR SCUMBUDDY.

compelling.

i dont care who has or doesn't have what. IS might have something else besides a gun, he might have nothing, he might have a cold. this is paranoia mafia and i dont see how if LLD recieved a gun, and IS didn't we should wifom ourselves into oblivion over it. its a null tell.

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT IS NOT NULL TO YOU? IS THERE ANYTHING LLD CAN DO THAT WILL LOOK SCUMMY?

OF COURSE NOT. DEFEND YOUR BUDDY TO THE END, EH? FINE. YOU DIE TOMORROW.

[Umbrage]

YOU SNAPPED AS WELL. THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE.

[Umbrage]

WHY THE FUCK WOULD AN SK GET A VIG SHOT?

[Umbrage]

TOO LATE FOR BUSSING NOW.

Ten bucks says #380 was made before LC saw Glass' vote then she went UHOH THIS SHIT IS REAL and did a TOTAL 360 on LLD.

Die
Scum
Die

[Umbrage]

TOO LATE FOR BUSSING NOW.

Ten bucks says #380 was made before LC saw Glass' vote then she went UHOH THIS SHIT IS REAL and did a TOTAL 360 on LLD.

Die
Scum
Die

and here i thought you could only post in all caps

...and me doing a 360 on LLD would have me back at my original conclusions, surely you mean a 180, which i havent done.

you are right

, i made that post when i thought i was at the last page, when i was on the 2nd to last page.

i want LLD to answer these questions though.

Everything else is unimportant.

Now hammer LLD so I can go to sleep happy.

[Umbrage]

If we get a scum flip, looks like LobsterCatapult and ThAdmiral are the most likely buddies.

I'm saying this so that if I end up dead you'll know they killed me.

[Umbrage]

FUCKING SHIT FUCK BASTARD DIE SHIT DAMN MOTHER SHITTING FUCK HELL BITCH

MOD: YOU SUCK.

(And yes, this is my way of saying I jailed IS last night.)

[Umbrage]

Is this not mylo?

vote: glass

Blatantly ignoring the LLD wagon.

AHFIAOSHVLJKSNADIGOPHSIODCSNHVGUIOWAHRMKLMOAWIP;AD

SERIAL KILLERS DO NOT HAVE RELATIONAL TELLS.

[Umbrage]

Alright. I'm calm now.

There is NO FUCKING WAY that Hiraki got both the SK and Mafia kills. I'm sticking to my guns on this one. There were so many better targets.

I'm left to believe that LLD was not an SK at the beginning of the game. Which means, it was likely her 'Snapped' status that made her into one.

I know what you're thinking: why wasn't IS an SK then? The only answer must be that there is some sort of Psychologist role that either protected him beforehand or targeted him last night.

We also apparently have a Mafia Strongman in our midst. Oh, goody.

I'm thinking we massclaim now. Obviously, some really complex mechanics led us to this point. I don't think scum can lie their way out of it.

[Umbrage]

I guess there could be 3 Mafia, but if one of them is a strongman, this is really unbalanced since the only town PRs we've seen are a couple one-shot jailkeepers. Since another strongman SK doesn't make sense, I'm going under the assumption that we are looking at a 2 man scumteam, either goon and RB or goon and SM.

Besides, another town flip won't help us. We don't need flips, we need a full day of solid scumhunting. This means NO MORE LURKING.

[Umbrage]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Strongman

Since IS was killed with me jailkeeping him, there can only be 4 possibilities:

a) IS was killed by a strongman.
b) I was roleblocked.
c) I'm lying scum.
d) The mod is a bastard.

I think the mod said something about my JK having a chance to fail in the PM, so d) is entirely possible.

I am a VT as well. That leaves us with 3 confirmed VTs and 3 VT claims. If nobody's lying, there's no way that there's 3 scum. Town would need some heavy PRs to beat 3 mafia and an SK.

[Umbrage]

My point stands then. There's no way there are 3 mafia and an SK against all VTs.

I'm going to ISO LC, see if I still find her scummy with LLD flipping SK.

[Umbrage]

VOTE: vezokpiraka

I've had just about enough of this. You're sheeping onto every single wagon you see. Don't you dare try and pull the VI card either. I know your town meta and that's to stick with a wagon even if nobody else is on it. You are stubborn as town, not indecisive.

[Umbrage]

Dammit Glass, stop ruining my case on vezok by acting scummy!!! I hate it when I have to eat my words.

1) Saying "oh by the way you're lynching a townie" is not helpful. It's a classic scum move. Don't stop the wagon on a townie from going through, but say it's a mislynch so you get protown points. LLD did the exact same thing on the Occult lynch. And you really expected LLD to flip town, didn't you? You didn't predict she would be an SK. All you knew was that she wasn't one of your buddies.

2) You think CooLDoG's partners are either vezok or nopoint? PUHLEES. One is a known VI that you would have absolutely no trouble lynching tomorrow, and neither of which you have EVER expressed suspicion of before in this game. In fact, you said this to Surye:

Fencesitting on LLD. He is still ignoring my questions towards him, and that along with attacking nopoint is really making me question if he is even reading the game or not.

Which at the very least implies that you thought nopoint is town.

Die scum die.

UNVOTE: vezok
VOTE: glass

[Umbrage]

SERIOUSLY, THIS IS ALL ANYONE'S POSTED?



WHAT DID I SAY ABOUT LURKING?

[Umbrage]

@ Lobster: Why Surye lurker-scum and vezok lurker-town?

[Umbrage]

How exactly would I "stop" the wagon? I did try to get wagons going on people I thought were scummy but they never got rolling. I ask you, how is what I did with the LLD wagon different than what LC did? What happened to your suspicions on her?

Not 'people'. Person. CooLDoG.

Most of my suspicions on LC were based off her apparent buddying with LLD.

You thought that LLD was going to flip town, so you pushed like mad for a mislynch knowing that IS would back you up, didn't you? You didn't predict she would be a SK. All you knew was that she wasn't one of your buddies.

Show how supporting LLD's lynch was a smarter scum move than supporting IS' lynch. When I went after LLD, it was a very risky move, I was pushing a wagon with almost no support that totally went against my D1 reads. Why would scum do that?

Reads change umbrage. I did think that nopoint was town, but his constant attacks on cooldog with little to no scumhunting anywhere else smells of a bus to me, not to mention his "insider information" attack is incredibly lame. The "going for an easy target" attack is just lame since I would consider half the players here "easy lynches".

So he's scummy for only focusing on CooLDoG the whole game?



And it's good to know you've been thinking about which players are easy lynches.

Umbrage's last post is asking LC why surye is scum for lurking and vezok is town for lurking. I have to ask you why is vezok scum for lurking and surye is not?

I asked you first. Besides, my case on vezok is based mainly on meta, not lurking.

[Umbrage]

1) Saying 'X is an easy lynch' is different from saying 'I'm attacking Y who is not an easy lynch'. The first is simply being observant, and the second is purposefully trying to look like you're not going for easy targets.

2)

I guess I am not allowed to ask cooldog the same question that you asked LC. And you did not ask me at all, you asked LC.

You're still dodging the question.

3) Oh bravo, you found 3 whole posts that weren't about CooLDoG. Now it's my turn. Let's see: we have ISO#14, ISO#15, ISO#16, ISO#20, ISO#30, and now ISO#32 all forming a case on CooLDoG.

4) Try reading the game. When I showed up, the only person suspecting LLD was FUCKING VEZOK. Even IS wasn't convinced she was scum, and he was flailing at that point.

5) Uh, because a flipped townie had nopoint as his #1 suspect?

[Umbrage]

So you are saying that I am just being observant, cool.

Uh... no. Try again.

The "going for an easy target" attack is just lame since I would consider half the players here "easy lynches".

'I'm attacking Y who is not an easy lynch'

Notice the similarity?

The question that you asked LC? Didn't know I was supposed to answer that.

That was to LC? Oh yeah. So why the hell are we talking about it?

Yes umbrage, but the point you were making was that I was attacking cooldog without looking at anyone else. I have successfully crushed that point into oblivion, and you showing posts about me attacking a scumread does not make ALL my posts about him.

BWAHAHAHA no.

You posted a) some quotes of mine that you misunderstood, b) a few questions but no hard reads, c) you joining the LLD wagon.

By the way, why did you join the LLD wagon? As I recall, you joined RIGHT AFTER SHE CLAIMED VIG. Hm... townread on her until then, but then she claims a DANGEROUS PR and you want her lynched! Nothing suspicious there, right?

And your point being?

Uh, that was me ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION.

Because the LLD lynch everyone was piling on top of so it is a safe place to put a vote without drawing lots of attention to yourself. Show how supporting a IS lynch is a smarter scum move than supporting a LLD lynch.

Remember this? When you LIED, hoping nobody would remember back to D2?

Too bad for you, but anyone can read back and see the truth. Only vezokpiraka had expressed suspicion of LLD before I launched my attack, making the above quote a LIE. A LIE that you're now desperately trying to cover up. But I'm onto you now.

So what? I don't blindly follow what dead people thought, and I highly doubt anybody else does. If you think that IS dying suddenly has all eyes on nopoint and I am taking advantage of then I need to facepalm and/or headdesk.

OK, so let me get this straight...

IS expresses suspicion of nopoint.

IS is killed and flips town.

You think nopoint is scum when you previously thought him town the day before.

And yet this has NOTHING TO DO with the fact that the ONLY person who suspected him wound up dead?

Either you're trying to cover this up or you're pulling this case out of your ass and really haven't been paying attention to nopoint at all. Which isn't surprising seeing as how you haven't said anything damaging towards him for the entire game.

[Umbrage]

Correction, he cared very much - when he thought she was a vig, the most powerful town PR.

[Umbrage]

Yeah, Glass is scum. I'm not going to respond to his latest "argument". If the best he can do is go NO UR RONG, then I don't see any point in continuing discussion.

[Umbrage]

UNVOTE: Glass

His reactions look like genuine town to me. Fuck. Back to square one, I guess.

[Umbrage]

OMGUS isn't a scumtell, not like this. Scum attack people they think they can get lynched. Town attack people they think are scummy. Glass is reacting to my case against him. If you know you are town, you automatically assume that anyone who says you're scum is purposefully lying.

[Umbrage]

Admittedly, I haven't played with vezok where he's been scum, but ThAdmiral's scum meta on him sounds a hell of a lot like what his town meta has been from my experience with him.

[Umbrage]

NO MORE LURKING.

START POSTING PEOPLE.

[Umbrage]

VOTE: nopointinactingup

Either he or Surye or both have to be scum. POE. I'm getting town vibes from everyone else. They've gotten a free ride in this game so far, and it's time to finish that.

[Umbrage]

I don't really see any reason to lynch vezok over Surye.

[Umbrage]

@ Everyone on vezokpiraka: Your arguments against vezok are things vezok always does. Sure, you can make the argument that that isn't an excuse, I'm with you on that. But it's still not a substitute for scumhunting.

Basically, you have a bunch of nulltells. Now, assuming every other player is null for you, then sure, lynch vezok because he's not valuable to the town and is next to impossible to read as scum anyway. I don't have a problem with that line of reasoning. What I don't like is how you're pushing vezok while ignoring everyone else. Why are you pushing a case full of nulltells? Is there nobody else in the game that you have suspicion on?

Today, more than anything, we need content. A lot of it. And that means scumhunting. Arguing back and forth. Vezok isn't going to contribute to that no matter how much you push him. Sure, he could flip scum, but he could also flip town, and either way we'd be right back where we started today. He's an easy cop-out lynch, and pushing for it is scummy as hell.

Again, I'm not opposed to a vezok lynch today. I'm opposed to his lynch being our first choice.

[Umbrage]

Which lynches can you support?

I seriously need to reread this game. A lot of the players are blurring together in my mind. I'll have a clearer view of things once I buckle down and get to work.

[Umbrage]

Which lynches can you support?

I seriously need to reread this game. A lot of the players are blurring together in my mind. I'll have a clearer view of things once I buckle down and get to work.

Translation: I fine with lynching anybody,

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but not those two because they are my scum buds. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't lynch anybody until I make sure that they aren't thaaaat town so I don't look bad.

Also, are you saying that at this point in time you have absolutely no scum reads? Lot of help you are for the town.

Sick and tired of umbridges non-committal I don't want to lynch specific people attitude. I know I said I would be willing to lynch surey (in fact I still am), but Umbridge's recent play is pathetic.

unvote, vote: umbridge

Come up with those reads...

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AND HOW WOULD YOU KNOW THERE ARE THREE SCUM??????????????

THREE SCUM & SK AGAINST ALL VANILLA TOWNIES?

SEEMS PRETTY UNLIKELY TO ME.

SCUM CAUGHT.

YES MORE UMBRAGE VOTES

He was pushing the hell out of me for being scum with his bs arguments and as soon as I call him out on them he completely ignores it and instead gets off me, probably hoping that I would wonder back onto cooldog after he got off of me. Not a chance in hell I am letting him off the hook that easily. I AM STILL WAITING ON WHAT THIS LIE WAS, IDC IF YOU THINK I AM TOWN, I WANT A RESPONSE.

If I was scum who wanted you lynched I would've gotten you lynched. Yes, my arguments were bullshit. I wanted a clearer read on you, and I got it.

I'm voting umbridge specifically because he never expresses who he wants to lynch

I believe the appropriate response in this kind of situation is LOLWUT?

Day 1 and Day 2 I was strongly committed to my wagons. I pushed for my scumreads and got them lynched. I don't display the same behaviour today and suddenly I'm scum? With vezok? If I was scum with vezok and somebody else, I forget who else you're saying my buddy is, but whatever, why wouldn't I sacrifice vezok? If I have two buddies, we're in lylo. I kill vezok today, gain a ton of towncred, win tomorrow. Or, I could've gotten you lynched, or Glass lynched. I can't possibly be buddies with all of you, now can I? This is why my former indecision is a null tell.

And guess what? Indecision in lylo is A TOWN TELL. It's SCUM that want to rush ahead and lynch someone. And that's you, CooLDoG. First Glass, then vezok, now me. And yet, you state you believe today is lylo. THIS IS NOT THE BEHAVIOUR OF A TOWNIE.

I'm really disappointed. First LLD, now CooLDoG. All my favourite people in this game are turning out to be evil scum I must kill.

VOTE: CooLDoG

[Umbrage]

i understand the fact that cooldog may have been flinging mud at vezok to see what sticks, but i dont understand, umbrage, how you changed your stance on vezok so staunchly from saying that his play is so different from what you usually see(as town), to his play being the same thing he does is suspect.

Total gut instinct. I thought vezok was scummy for jumping on the CD wagon, then I got distracted with Glass, and when I looked at him again there was a wagon on him. Something about that seemed off, it was too easy. It was a total gut reaction that made me back off vezok, and it ended up catching scum.

Can we come to some sort of consensus here guys?

CooLDoG is scum. Only scum would push so hard for a lynch all day. Especially since he slipped and revealed this was lylo. Regardless of your stance on the lylo debate, CD thinks today is lylo, so we're going under the assumption that it is lylo/mylo for this post.

First he tried getting a wagon on Glass, but abandoned that idea when I jumped off. Knowing that thus far, the wagon I'm on is the wagon that goes through to completion, he attacked vezok, my primary suspect. But that didn't work either, I changed my mind on vezok. Once he realized I wasn't going to push a lynch anytime soon, he decided that the only quicklynch he could get was my own.

As long as I pushed on Glass and vezok, I was useful to him, but when I said I had no good scumreads, suddenly I'm a suspect.

[Umbrage]

Link goes here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17498 This is actually a mini normal that just ended recently (a mini normal, hear that? NORMAL, not themed.) Three mafia (two goons, one roleblocker). 1 sk. A jailkeeper, a watcher and a tracker. Both you and I supposedly have jailkeeping abilities. That's equivalent to two doc saves, or two role blocks. Don't tell me that's not balanced. I also always assume three scum (read back to the start of this day. Read back to when we started number crunching stuff in day1. Always assume three scum.)

No.

A jailkeeper, a watcher, and a tracker together is a REALLY fucking powerful combo. We only have fucking VTs that OCCASIONALLY and PUBLICALLY gain ONE-SHOT abilities that can FAIL. There is no comparison.

But this is all beside the point. I've GIVEN my reasoning as to why there are likely two scum. You didn't say "hey, there could be 3 scum". You said I had 2 buddies. That's not speculation, that's scum knowledge. You say I'm wrong in assuming 2 scum, but you assume there are 3 scum.

Therefore, either you have knowledge that there's 3 scum, or you're full of shit. Which is it?

Both of witch flipped non-scum (weak, yet pertinent). And yes having no reads on day-3 is very very scummy. Have you run out of marginally scummy people to lynch? Don't tell me that you don't have any scum reads at d-3... fence sitting is always a scum tell.

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

OK, never mind my last question, you're clearly full of shit.

1) If you're right, and there's 3 scum left, then today is mylo.

2) In mylo, you either no-lynch, or you be really REALLY fucking sure of your lynch choice.

3) Therefore, it is pro-town to be careful about lynches today, following YOUR OWN DAMN LOGIC.

I challenge you to get ONE experienced mafia player to say that indecisiveness or fence-sitting is always anti-town. I challenge you to get ONE experienced mafia player to say that taking your time in mylo is a bad thing.

So you are going to gain monster town credit for lynching a lurker on d-3? You could quite possibly be keeping vezok around to lynch him tomorrow when it really is lylo, remember how you mystically plucked out a 2-man scum team from thin air? Also, assuming you have a two man scum team (sense you are sooo sure about it...) if vezok is scum then you will be down to one man, a 1/5. Not looking good for you now is it?

So now me being scum only makes sense if there's a 2-man scumteam? Even though you're SOOO SURE there's a 3-man scumteam?

OK, let's say vezok and I are scum. Why didn't I try and get you lynched earlier? Why didn't I keep pushing on Glass? That lynch was all set when I backed off. Why would I do that?

Congratulations, you just buried yourself. Good game.

If I'm correct it would be a 2/4 tomorrow. So at some point you are going to have to go on one of those bandwagons that you out right refuse to join.

And now he desperately tries to misrep in order to save himself. Quote me refusing to join any wagon today Mr. Big Mouth. (HINT: this is going to be the part of the post CooLDoG doesn't respond to.)

How is this lylo? You yourself said that we have 2-man scum teams. How can you be wrong? The setup would be so unbalanced, like this other mini-normal... viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17276 holy shit it had 4 mafia and now town pr, and the town still won. Show me proof that this isn't lylo and that you are right about 2 man scum teams.

Yeah, at first I thought it was a 2-man mafia team, but you're the scum, so you'd be the one to know.

SO you are basing a players scumminess based off of who is on his or her wagon alone? Because that's what your read is, "Wagon built up fast with slightly town to slightly scummy reads, ohh man, vezok has got to be town for sure."

As I said, it was a total gut instinct, which turned out to be the right move.

SO pushing hard for a lynch is a scum tell now, lets see, you did that here, here, here, and here. That last one was in "lylo"

OH, SO NOW I'M PUSHING HARD FOR LYNCHES, AM I? I THOUGHT I WAS FENCE-SITTING. MAKE UP YOUR MIND, SCUM.

Your damn right about one thing, the glass and vezok lynch ain't going anywhere. That's partly because of non-commital people like you. Get a list of reads and vote for them, no wishy washy shit like you pulled on vezok back there.

What is this I don't even.

Why are there two scum and not three? Answer me that. Show me statistics that shows that this setup is unbalanced with 3 scums, an sk, and 2 JKs (and possibly more due to this fucked-up mechanic).

And this is called

distraction

. Here, CooLDoG realizes that he slipped up and revealed he knew how many scum there were. So he tries to cover it up by pretending I said there were definitely 2 scum. Of course, if I really did slip up like that, CooLDoG would've pointed it out a long time ago instead of trying to sic me on Glass. He even tries to goad me into saying that there are 2 scum. Sadly, I'm not going to be tricked. And CooLDoG is about to learn that you can't use scumtells in a case retroactively without showing you're scum yourself.

[Umbrage]

Yes, that's L-1. ThAdmiral, myself, vezok, and nopoint are on CooLDoG. Come on LC, join the townie team! We're the best team.

[Umbrage]

I'm just saying that this could possibly be mylo, and with you pushing so hard for a 2-man scum team it would be a fucking good fit for you to have this not at mylo.

Which is a valid point. But it's one you should've brought up when I FIRST SAID there were 2 scum. You didn't. You apparently thought it good that myself and the rest of the town think there were 2 scum. Why?

Careful =/= to fince setting not having reads. You always come into a day having reads. Not having those reads means you are ridiculously bad (you aren't) or that you are contemplating who you can get away with lynching. It has nothing to do with mylo because you still think there are 2-man scum teams at this point. So you have no reads in a non-lylo situation, explain.

How the hell do you think I didn't come in with any reads? I started off with Glass as scum, you as town, and vezok as scum. I acted on those reads. Over time I lost faith in my wagons, and decided to reexamine the game. THAT IS CALLED BEING CAREFUL. THAT IS CALLED SCUMHUNTING. THAT IS A GOOD THING TO DO IN MYLO.

I may not be able to find one who will agree in every case, but I will be able to find a whole bunch who will say going into day-3 (lylo or not) you should have at least 1 scum read.

See above.

you are misunderstanding my point about the three man scum team. The three man scum team is a possibility which you refuse to consider, you always pass it off as being unbalanced and other set-up wifom bullshit. I'm just concerned that this could be a mylo situation. Natuarly you persuaded all of the town (including me for a time) that there was a two man scum team. All that I'm saying is don't count out there being a three man scum team and this being mylo. Most likly there is a two man scum team, but you have to be prudent. And someone convincing the town in a possible mylo situation (and avidly pushing) a 2-man scum team idea reeks of scum. You yourself said to be cautious in a lylo situation, why don't you assume the worst?

OBVIOUSLY I considered a 3-man scumteam, otherwise I wouldn't have deducted that there was a 2-man scumteam.

But this is still a distraction. You NEVER said "maybe there's 3 scum", you said "Umbrage has 2 scumbuddies". THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. One is trying to be helpful to the town, the other is a scumslip.

If I really was pushing a 2-man team so hard, then why didn't you say anything earlier? Seems like you only became concerned when I started attacking you.

Because I pushed hard for a correct lynch on d-2. LLD was such an easy target for scum. And d-1 was full of scum shit with the occult lynch. You simply didn't have the time.

Tee-hee. Now you're saying I had nothing to do with the LLD lynch? I think you should try reading the thread again.

Admittedly, I haven't played with vezok where he's been scum, but ThAdmiral's scum meta on him sounds a hell of a lot like what his town meta has been from my experience with him.

Disagreeing with a meta read =/= refusal to lynch, sad to say.

I don't really see any reason to lynch vezok over Surye.

Does that say I refuse to lynch vezok? Not in the slightest.

@ Everyone on vezokpiraka: Your arguments against vezok are things vezok always does. Sure, you can make the argument that that isn't an excuse, I'm with you on that. But it's still not a substitute for scumhunting.

Basically, you have a bunch of nulltells. Now, assuming every other player is null for you, then sure, lynch vezok because he's not valuable to the town and is next to impossible to read as scum anyway. I don't have a problem with that line of reasoning. What I don't like is how you're pushing vezok while ignoring everyone else. Why are you pushing a case full of nulltells? Is there nobody else in the game that you have suspicion on?

Today, more than anything, we need content. A lot of it. And that means scumhunting. Arguing back and forth. Vezok isn't going to contribute to that no matter how much you push him. Sure, he could flip scum, but he could also flip town, and either way we'd be right back where we started today. He's an easy cop-out lynch, and pushing for it is scummy as hell.

Again, I'm not opposed to a vezok lynch today. I'm opposed to his lynch being our first choice.

Note the bolded, and try reading properly before you embarrass yourself again.

You say this is gut, but the italics show that there is more going on there. You actually have reasons, you just aren't willing to fully display thim. Atleast that's the read I'm getting.

I had my reasons for attacking vezok. Jumping OFF his wagon was gut.

Yeah you push hard for two lynches and then you stop doing anything on d-3 no mylo. You don't have any reads after two full days of content and you refuse to jump on a wagon in non-mylo. THAT'S fince setting. Especially after you pushed hard for two non-scum lynches. That action you yourself said was scummy.

In what universe does "push hard for two days then do nothing" make sense as a scum tactic?

Simply that the vezok and glass wagon stopped. Nothing moved. No body wanted to even add pressure to them. SOme of those people are glass vezok and you....

Ah, OK. Wait... uh, nope, still have no idea what you're saying here.

Ohh, ohh shit. You just said there aren't three scum. Well we assume you are saying 2 scum. No?

I... I just don't understand... what does it all mean???

[Umbrage]

UNVOTE:
wtf

When did cooldog go from "there are two scum" to "there are three scum"? If he really thinks that it is mylo then why is he voting for umbrage? Is it just me or does it look like cooldog just try and make it look like umbrage saying there are 2 scum as a scumslip when we had already established this at the beginning of the day?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p3228378

[Umbrage]

Again, today I don't have as much time as I would like (in the morning)...


@LLD,UMbridge

Is this not mylo?

vote: glass

Blatantly ignoring the LLD wagon.

This was my first post of d-3. The fifth post of d-3 to be exact. Since we know the tototal number of players it can be easily derived from the above quote that I thought there were two scum teams.

@mod, this weekend I will be v/la

NO.

ASKING IF TODAY IS MYLO DOES NOT EQUAL SAYING THERE ARE 3 SCUM.

DIE.

[Umbrage]

Part 1:

How else could it be mylo? Answer that directly.

You asked if this was mylo. You didn't even say you thought this was mylo. You just asked if it was. I made a post or two outlining reasoning as to why this is not mylo and why this setup cannot hold 3 mafia. I thought the matter closed since nobody bothered to dispute my reasoning.

I never realized the magnitude of your statement until my attention was drawn to your lack of commitment in d-3. I had never really pondered the implications of you saying there are 2 scum teams.

Really?

This is the post where you first voted me. I see no mention of my saying there are 2 scum left as a point against me. That doesn't show up until later, presumably after you'd realized you slipped in that post.

But your words are "how did he know there were two scum". The answer to that is simple:

Exhibit A
Exhibit B

You never disputed that reasoning. You never even acknowledged that reasoning. You just went OMG WITCHCRAFT as a gut reaction. I think we're done here.

How is this mylo? You yourself said that there are 2 man scum teams. So you aren't be cautious in mylo, you are just not having reads on d-3. Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

Oh my fucking god.

Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

No way.

Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

Even when your lynch wagon fails you should always have a fall back.

Mod Edit: Cut back on the repitionion here to be less of a nusance. For reference, there were 23 repeats.

THAT IS NOT TOWN PLAY. THAT IS SCUM PLAY. TOWN TRY TO LYNCH SCUM. TOWN DOUBT THEMSELVES. TOWN ARE CAUTIOUS. SCUM LINE UP LYNCHES. SCUM HAVE A BACKUP LYNCH.

Again, how can you only have two lynches that you would be willing to support in d-3 non lylo/mylo?????????????????????

Because I'M NOT SCUM AND I DON'T NEED TO BE WILLING TO LYNCH ANYONE.

See linked games in previous post. We had potentially three or more doctors in this set-up. Two man scum team and sk isn't balanced with three doc. But I forgot, the scum have a role blocker... you.

SEE THIS IS THE KIND OF REASONING THAT WOULD'VE BEEN USEFUL AT THE START OF THE GAME.

BUT NO, YOU WERE TOO BUSY LICKING MY BOOTS. AT LEAST UNTIL I WASN'T USEFUL TO YOU ANYMORE.

THEN SUDDENLY YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF TELLS ON ME.

I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.

SCUMTELLS CANNOT BE APPLIED RETROACTIVELY WITHOUT LOOKING LIKE YOU ARE NOT SCUMHUNTING.

No, I only started being concerned with this when I started looking at you d-3 play. Then when I started reflecting on your past statements (specifically early in d-3) I found that you as scum could benefit greatly by convencing the town that we have a two man scum team.

SO WHAT, MY POSTS WERE JUST WHITE NOISE? YOU NEVER READ THEM, NEVER PAID ATTENTION TO THEM?

LOOKS LIKE YOU SUSPECTED EVERYONE BUT MYSELF COMING INTO D3. HM, INTERESTING.

Ohh yeah, you just hopped on the easy lynch wagon a threw out generic points. Any average scum play could have easily hopped on that wagon like you did. But the point remains that those two lynches were easy to get onto and both flipped non-scum.

AGAIN: READ THE FUCKING GAME.

I don't see your vote on that there wagon....

SO? I DON'T VOTE FOR ALL OF MY SUSPECTS AND LYNCH CANDIDATES. SHOW ME ONE PLAYER WHO DOES.

Why no vote then? If you supported the lynch why aren't you arguing for it? Why aren't you voting for vezok?

I DID VOTE.

THEN I UNVOTED.

BECAUSE I WAS BEING CAREFUL.

BECAUSE TOWN IS CAREFUL.

BECAUSE TOWN DOESN'T WANT A MISLYNCH.

GET IT NOW?

At this point you have no reads. You are say, "ohh we could lynch vezok, but can I get away with it? Ahh somebody else will get easier to lynch and I'll hop on that later. I won't commit to anything, I'll just sit back in my lawn chair and have a nice cold drink while all the others are scum hunting. Yeah, that will work out nicely." And exactly that happened. An easy lynch poped up, and boom you are right on it now. Good game scum, you played this marvelously.

At this point it might be good if you read over one of my scum games. Check my wiki page. As scum, I never rest. I throw crap around to confuse town. I latch onto a wagon with all of my heart to make it look like I'm scumhunting when I'm just tunneling.

Having no reads is a null tell, not a scum tell. You can't change that.

Part 2 will come tonight.

[Umbrage]

so you never really had a definitive reason for hopping off the vezok wagon. Again, shakey reads on d-3 people. This doesn't make sense. How can an expierenced player like umbridge not have any good reads on d-3 no mylo. For a large portion of the day he doesn't even have a vote onj anybody.

Not thinking vezok is scum is different from not having reads. And guess what? Yep, you guessed it. Not having a vote on anybody can be a GOOD THING IN MYLO.

When you run out of easy targets. Its not a matter of deciding to do it. You just found yourself off-balance and forgot to push your "reads". Any half-assed scum player could spit out shit on occult and LLD for years. But when it was show time, you ran out of steam...

This brings up a few questions...

How was LLD an easier target than Glass or vezok?
If I had no reads, how could I push them?
How does 'running out of steam' turn into 'running in the opposite direction by unvoting'?
How does my attack on you fit into your 'running out of steam' theory?

Basically you are, in that quote, saying that there are in fact 2 scum. Simply put you got the town fooled into two man scum team and when one person descents you find grounds for an easy lynch. Great job masterful play if I do say so myself. I should nominate you for a scummy after this game.

Interesting, seeing as how you still haven't shown any evidence that there are 3 scum. All you've done is say there COULD be 3 scum. You've even said it's unlikely there's 3 scum.

Some more questions:

Why are you so hung up on this? It really doesn't make a difference. Do you want to no-lynch because there's a teeny tiny chance today is mylo? No, you've been very adamant about getting a lynch all day. So why does it matter?

Why, when you were forming your case on me, did you assume I had two scumbuddies? I never saw a decent answer for that. I heard a lot of 'well there COULD be 3 scum'. But that doesn't mean there ARE 3 scum.

And finally, do you have any reason whatsoever, besides baseless speculation and games with different setups, to doubt my original logic as to why there are 2 scum?

[Umbrage]

@umbrage, why do you think cooldog hasn't self hammered?

Wants to let a buddy do it for the towncred?

[Umbrage]

Yes. I received a lovely present from the mod: a one-shot BP. HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Umbrage]

So do people get something if they are either paranoid or snapped?

Looks like long wall posts help people reach snapped status.

Nope. I think it's the number of votes on you. I was told I snapped at post 449, which is Glass voting me.

Umbridge, you said you should never have a fall back. Why did you vote for two people today in quick succession once a wagon failed. Are you also saying that you should only have 1 scum read. And if you happen to have two you should never lynch your number two man, even if your number one has no support? Some of the most powerful tells are buddy tells (my opinion), and only focusing on one man, and only pressuring one man severely limits your ability to scum hunt. I think the correct term for your style of play is tunnel vision.

I was totally hyperactive midway through this day. There wasn't much activity, and I was getting bored with the game. I didn't have a strong scumread on anyone. Before, I was either totally sure Occult was scum, or totally sure LLD was scum, and with them dead I was lost. My solution was to pretty much just join random wagons and see what happened. Hence my stupid tunneling of Glass and subsequent out-of-left-field nopoint vote.

[Umbrage]

MUAHAHAHAHA. Scum WIFOM FTW. I never used my bulletproof, think I'll save it for tonight. OR MAYBE I WON'T! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Glass and vezok are both town, guys. CooLDoG was fine with lynching either of them yesterday. And I don't think he was bussing. Read him in ISO. He only really pays attention to a few people throughout the game. I don't think scum would bus when they play like that, it doesn't make sense.

I think it's nopoint. He's made a big case on CD, but CD doesn't respond to it and he lets it go whenever a better wagon comes along. And don't forget that the one person to be suspicious of nopoint was killed N2. When I briefly voted nopoint yesterday, he was the one wagon that CD didn't follow up on.

VOTE: kondi2424

[Umbrage]

You know, a no-lynch might be the best play here. Given what CD said, there's likely 2 more scum out there, making this mylo. I really don't see a downside to no-lynching, the scum will either no-kill, in which case we've lost nothing, or they'll kill who they see as the towniest (besides me because BULLETPROOFHAHA) and either way, we'll gain some insight into who they are.

Barring that, I really think nopoint is the lynch. CD totally ignored him the whole game, except for comments like "nopoint should read this" and "nopoint should vote Umbrage". Besides, if there are 2 scum left, and for safety's sake we have to assume there are 2 scum left, I don't see a scum team that doesn't include nopoint. ThAdmiral is pretty much clear because ani declared LC town earlier. I'm obvtown. Surye is lurkertown. Glass and vezok could be scum, OK, I admit it, but there's no way they're scum together. I don't see CD trying to get BOTH his teammates lynched in the same day. That leaves nopoint by PoE. He and Glass/vezok/ThAdmiral are the only scumteam that makes sense.

[Umbrage]

Thad replaced ani. Ani used mod error to say that he and LC were of the same alignment. There's no scum motivation to do this.

[Umbrage]

Oh.

OK, that makes it easy then. nopointinactingup and ThAdmiral are the remaining scum. GG

[Umbrage]

COME ON PEOPLE, LURKERS MAKE ME CRY. SURYE, YOU HAVEN'T POSTED ONCE THIS ENTIRE DAY, GET YOUR ASS IN HERE.

[Umbrage]

Kondi is at L-1, it doesn't look like he's going to show up, and even if he did, he couldn't do anything to excuse nopoint's actions. I'm fine with a lynch, this day is going nowhere anyway. Surye's AWOL, which means it's up to Glass for the hammer.

Come on buddy, time to earn those townie points and kill scum.

[Umbrage]

I tried... but no. I just can't see vezok being mafia with Thad and CooLDoG. If you nitpick his posts, yeah, he looks pretty scummy, but the actions don't add up. The SK claim with CD calling for his lynch... CD said there was scum on the Occult wagon so I'm thinking that there wasn't except for him, and vezok spends pretty much the whole time voting ThAdmiral and CooLDoG, not obligatory "I am going to distance you now" posts, but really pushing for their lynches. You know, as hard as vezok pushes for anything. There's really no difference in the way vezok jumped on the nopoint/kondi wagon then how he jumped on the CooLDoG wagon.

Further more, look at this: when ThAdmiral replaces in he makes a post saying not to hammer LLD. CooLDoG then immediately hammers LLD. Either TA is town, or this is the most uncoordinated scumteam I've seen. I see absolutely no reason for them to pull something like that. Then he goes after CD and never lets go. It's not for towncred, if it was he'd make a big stink about how CD was evil scum that had to be destroyed for the good of all, and he doesn't do that. If anything, he becomes more disinterested the closer the wagon goes to a lynch.

No, I just don't see it. Either nopoint is scum or there's only one scum left, and if it's the latter we can afford a mislynch. We get rid of the most likely suspect today, then we have the scum forced to either give us an extra lynch or eliminate another potential suspect because towniest member of the game is fucking bulletproof. WE ARE TOWN. WE ARE UNSTOPPABLE.

Now hammer kondi and maybe you'll undo the scum points gained by being THE SINGLE ACTIVE MEMBER NOT WANTING TO LYNCH OBVIOUS SCUM. Don't think I've forgotten about you, Glass. Yes yes, CooLDoG tried to kill you yesterday, but at that point it looked like it was going to be either him or you, and with 3 members left you could afford a sacrifice. I remember how you turned on CD at the last second when my lynch didn't work out. You went from this:

YES MORE UMBRAGE VOTES

to this:

If he really thinks that it is mylo then why is he voting for umbrage?

And don't say that OH WELL MYLO IS A DIFFERENT STORY because:

Can't say that i agree with no lynching right now

So hammer kondi and maybe I'll be stupid enough to lynch ThAdmiral over you tomorrow. Or, we can sit and wait for either Surye or his replacement to come on and hammer and ruin any chance you had at getting any towncred. Your choice.

[Umbrage]

Not Surye.

Time to come clean. I was never bulletproof, I got a one-shot investigation/protect combo instead. I targeted Surye because he was the only one I couldn't get a read on. He's town. I've been told that ability has an 'almost certain' chance of succeeding.

So the question is, Glass or vezok?

Nobody vote for now. I have to think about this.

[Umbrage]

Also, I want to add:

No matter the outcome today, this setup is really unbalanced for town. 3 mafia and an SK against an all-vanilla town who randomly gets abilities that may or may not work is ridiculous. That is assuming this isn't some sort of mind screw where there are no scum and flips are random, maybe I killed IS with my jailkeep. Whatever.

[Umbrage]

That's exactly what I HAVE done! Except for the winning the game part. But I'm working on it.

[Umbrage]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Seriously? I'm as townie as you get! I got two mafia lynched already, and just confirmed someone as town. What more do you need?

[Umbrage]

Well, call me confirmed town. Not that it's a surprise to anyone.

I'll wait until Monday to hear what Glass has to say, and I'll be ISOing nopoint in the meantime. Surye, vezok, if you've anything else to say, now's the time.

[Umbrage]

WAIT A MINUTE.

Glass, I want the name of the ability you used on me, and it's description. Now.

[Umbrage]

DON'T LEAVE US HANGING GLASS BABY.

[Umbrage]

CooLDoG got that ability and used it on LLD D2, I don't recall LLD getting that ability. She claimed she got a vig, but it's safe to assume she was lying about that.

I checked the rules at the front, there's nothing that applies to quoting PMs or the mod. As long as you don't use purple font, I think you're good.

[Umbrage]

I checked the timestamp of the PM I got that said I was blocked and couldn't post.

It came a couple hours after this votecount: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3103625

As you can see, there are only 3 people who could've used the power on me: Occult, IS, and LLD.

Occult said he got a jailkeep as a result of his Paranoid status, and there's no reason for him to have lied about that. So let's assume that since he claimed his JK, he would've claimed any ability he got earlier. This means he didn't get an ability at Worried status. Since he and IS are confirmed as the same alignment, that means it wasn't IS either. If somebody knows that a townie DID get an ability at Worried status, please share.

So that means LLD must've gotten the ability at Worried, then used it on me. The problem is that vezok got his ability at Suspicious. Still, it makes sense to me that the SK would get powers sooner than scum or town, since they're at a disadvantage anyway.

There's really no other explanation that makes sense. It couldn't have been IS or Occult, or the other one would've gotten an ability at that time as well.

That means we have LLD and CooLDoG using the same ability that vezok now has. Hm, nice work, Glass. Must think...

[Umbrage]

Glass. Ability description. Now.

[Umbrage]

We can count nightkills, no way you could've claimed 1-shot vig. Although, the fact that you haven't used it yet says a lot...

MOD: Is Glass correct? Would it be against the rules for anyone here to quote an ability PM you sent?

[Umbrage]

Fuck it. It's clear nobody cares about this game anymore, including myself. I'm ending this.

VOTE: Glass

I could come up with great reasons for either case, but I've decided to go with my gut. I just don't see vezok as scum. The NK doesn't make sense, ThAdmiral thought Glass was scum and vezok was town. The cop claim doesn't fit with my ability, I had an investigate/protect combo. If vezok was scum, why didn't he use that scum ability of his?

Win or lose, I really don't care at this point. I nailed 3 scum in a totally unbalanced game, I've proven I'm badass. It was still a really fun game, despite a few problems.

LLD, why did you have to be evil? You were my bestest friend here. D1 you were so funny and sharp, what happened?
IS, sorry for doubting you D1. In the end, you were proven right about nopoint, and without your contribution I wouldn't have caught him.
CooLDoG, you played well, and if it hadn't been for one or two slip-ups I might never have suspected you.
Nopoint, it's too bad you weren't around to fight against your lynch, that would've been awesome.
Occult, sowwy.
ThAdmiral, if you hadn't died I probably would've lynched you today. But your motives were pure after all. Again, sowwy. I'm counting on your Glass read, bud!
Glass, regardless of your alignment, you played a really good game. I came really close to lynching vezok, but gut instinct took over.
Vezok, it's no secret I've never liked your play, but in this game you've shown signs of improving. Keep it up.
Surye, I shouldn't have wasted my investigation on you. I knew you were town in my gut.
Lobster, I thought for sure you were LLD's buddy, now I see you were the little voice inside our heads that cautions us against error. Every town should have one of you.
Ani, you trying to confirm LC as town stopped me from thinking you were scum, so good going there. You seem to have been proven right about her.

Good game to all, no matter who wins.

[Umbrage]

I'm assuming Glass was telling the truth, and only turned Mafia for the flip.

I was town until... Day 2? Day 3?

Right before I got lynched, I turned SK. >.>

Yeah, I was wondering about that, but then why did you fake the posting restriction?

[Umbrage]

Yeah, I wouldn't do that again.

Also:

Alright. I'm calm now.

There is NO FUCKING WAY that Hiraki got both the SK and Mafia kills. I'm sticking to my guns on this one. There were so many better targets.

I'm left to believe that LLD was not an SK at the beginning of the game. Which means, it was likely her 'Snapped' status that made her into one.

I know what you're thinking: why wasn't IS an SK then? The only answer must be that there is some sort of Psychologist role that either protected him beforehand or targeted him last night.

We also apparently have a Mafia Strongman in our midst. Oh, goody.

I'm thinking we massclaim now. Obviously, some really complex mechanics led us to this point. I don't think scum can lie their way out of it.

WHO'S A BADASS TOWNIE?????

[Umbrage]

Wait, doesn't the SK wincon mean the SK is actually a survivor vig?

[Umbrage]

Can someone post the scum QT? I have a feeling it's going to be utterly hilarious.

[Umbrage]

Self protect? I was lying about my BP vest, is that what you were talking about?

[Umbrage]

The QT is very empty and useless. I am too lazy to post it.

Good job umbrage (I still had a roleblock at the end, so I could have killed you even with your bulletproof but I knew thad and vezok would autovote me so meh).

If you had killed vezok I probably would've voted for Thad over you, it was really close.

[Umbrage]

The SK drop was quite bastardly... it worked out fine in this game, but it could've really screwed stuff up.

Wait a minute... Glass had a roleblock? Why didn't he block and kill me?

Anyway, I'd join TF2 mafia solely based on flavour. I don't know if I'll be able to co-mod with school starting soon, but I'd be glad to help with the setup. As far as experience goes, I co-designed Mass Effect Mafia, which is currently in D4, and I'm in the mini theme queue with an approved setup for The Orange Box Mafia. (Yeah, I like videogames.) So if you want an extra pair of eyes, send me a PM.