Mini 1183: Mafiamatical Mathia - Game over!

[don_johnson]

vote: juls

long time no see.

implo: which game was that? i thought we were in more than one together...

[don_johnson]

*facepalm*

dear god.

no. not this discussion.

question for all: do you find it more difficult to random vote when you are scum, or when you are town?

[don_johnson]

the rvs self vote is a discussion starter, but the ensuing discussion generally ends up being something more at home in a theory thread than in a game. at least thats my experience. self voting can actually be a useful tool if done right, but i think it takes experience to know when and how. it can help out regardless of your own alignment.

in short:

rvs self vote is null, anti-town. juls has every right to say this:

Right now, it's the worst vote out there. I have no reason to move my vote until he proves himself.

oop made his bed.

in other news, this

Because scum are overly paranoid.

is not a fact. please don't phrase it as though it is logic. you're 1 and 2 are probably just as likely(hence, null).

oopid: why did you vote yourself?

[don_johnson]

you guys are moving fast. i'm gonna have to catch up this weekend. work tomorrow and saturday, so i'll read up when i get the time.

[don_johnson]

sweet. got the weekend off, so i'll read here and post tonight or tomorrow.

[don_johnson]

ok. i think kalofer is scum.

unvote, vote: kalofer

null for the most part, but this:

Come to think of it, Twisted could be his usual townie self but I'm not in the mood of letting go of scummy actions which lack justification. I'll keep my vote where it is for now. Plague, you've clearly focused your attention on TS, so why no vote for him?

just reads like he's egging on a mislynch. if twisted could be his "usual townie self", then there's no reason to lynch him in a 9 player game. plus, you then campaign for another vote on the wagon. just doesn't seem right.

[don_johnson]

ebwop: also, implo town/scum list is good form. never hurts to leave evidence. townies should have very little to hide.

[don_johnson]

Prod recieved. Working.

[don_johnson]

Don: what do you think of TS? What do you think of Wicked?

town and town.

why is kalofer still alive?

[don_johnson]

Freaking hilarious. Nice one juls.

[don_johnson]

Heeeey

Twisted

...and everyone else for that matter (except you

mort

, you don't deserve my recognition).

there's your scum team.

vote: morthas

juls, my guess is that you're a neighbor. do you recall the game where springlullaby was mafia neighbor and i was scum? not sure if you were in it, but spring tunnelled the shit out of me day 1, so much so, that i killed her at night. her opening post had a similar format where she said "hello" to me and my scumbuddy. what do you think?

[don_johnson]

3 scum is a bit tough with nine players, but neighbors usually are unknown to the scum team and only win if scum wins. enough town power could offset the unbalance, plus, two scum would mean that there is only one scum left, and the neighbor. need to check the wiki, but i've never played with a neighbor who was known to the scum team.

[don_johnson]

ok. if neighbor is known to scum team and scum team is two, i favor morthas>twisted. more later. i want juls input.

[don_johnson]

unvote

Morthas claim plz.

[don_johnson]

Bad question juls. Unless there is three neighbors its irrelevant. Neighbors dont know each others alignments. No reason for two neighbors who are both mafia. If morthas is the only other neighbor thwn hes confirmed. Unvote and he claims. We move on. Also, if he is neighbor and confirmed, then this wagon is suspect.

[don_johnson]

vote: juls

not only do i think its viable, but i think its necessary. the hammer only made sense to me if juls was neighbor. she's not. the situation is too wifomic as to whether or not she'd hyperbus, so i think the best option is to remove her from the equation. provided juls is not the final scum, if town has an investigative role, they should be investigating morthas. doc should be randomizing protection among those they think are town. i don't see any other way for there to have been no nk other than doc, so yeah. we need more from morthas. wicked needs to get back in here as well.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: wicked

L-1. welcome back dude. please claim and explain.

i think its foolish to let juls slip by. her hammer only makes sense under certain conditions, and she has denied all of them. my hope is that if we have another night, scum call juls "soft claim bluff bullshit" and shoot her ass.

[don_johnson]

plague: when was the first time?

juls: its not that i think you're scummy. its that i am having difficulty reconciling your actions. to explain, i will present to you four reasons why i think you may have hammered kalofer without a claim on day 1 after expressing ZERO suspicion of him. i will number them from what i think most likely to least likely.

1) juls is neighbor. she has spoken with kalofer outside the game per her role ability. she determined that his response to pressure and his activity in the QT points to the fact that he may, in fact, be scum. couple that with the mathematical probablility of having town neighbors in a game, and neighborjuls thinks "well, i'm town, so if there is a scum neighbor, i know its kalofer. he's not responding well, the QT has gone silent, so i don't see harm in hammering because

i know

he isn't doc/cop/etc."

this was most likely imo. this is not possible, morthas has claimed neighbor.

2) juls is cop/doc/etc. and eager to get to night phase, doesn't really care who gets lynched as long as its not her. i would generally expect to see this behavior from an investigative power role, as protective roles generally lurk and stay out of the limelight. copjuls could even justify the scummy hammer with "well, i wanted to make sure i didn't get roleblocked/nk'd.

this is still a possibility. however, you soft-claimed, then retracted it with the "well its about an ongoing game" thing, so i am not sure what to think.

3) juls is scum with kalofer. saw the oppurtunity to bus into serious towncred and took it. maybe was frustrated with her partner for getting to L-1 and not responding well. small game, town cred could go a long way.

4) juls is vt thinking its funny to hammer someone without a claim on day 1.

least likely.

if you are scum, allowing ourselves to let you live beyond today gives you a serious upperhand. and by live, i mean, i would like you to L-1 and then claim. if you are power, then we glean some info and lynch elsewhere. if you claim vt, we lynch you because 3 is much more likely than 4. got it?

i don't have an issue with your wicked wagon. i think the game needs action and the fact that we lynched scum on day 1 and avoided the first nk means we're in good shape. hopefully doc has breadcrumbed their protect so we at least have a cleared townie tomorrow if doc should get hit tonight. but whatever. if you think its scummy to support wagons then i don't know what to tell you. i'm not going to just sit here and believe that vt juls just up and decided to hammer a player on day 1 without a claim and with no good reason.

[don_johnson]

tbh, i had checked in from my phone earlier and decided i would add my vote to the wagon. when i got home, the other vote was already on. i couldn't find a good reason

not

to vote. "oppurtunistic" is scummy depending on the situation. if, for instance, juls was not on the wagon, then placing him at L-1 could be seen as oppurtunistic/scummy due to juls' propensity for hammering without a claim. however, with juls already on the wagon, i see nothing "dangerous" about placing wicked to L-1. when he gets back, he posts and he claims. if he is convincing, we move elsewhere.

currently i find it harder to think scum is in juls, oopid, spoon, and morthas. juls most recent posts show town cooperation and higher thought. not characteristics i think we would see from scumjuls. also, she states she is okay with her lynch tomorrow, which would still be before lylo, and she may or may not be a power role. i'm okay with that. i like her thought process about narrowing things down to wicked/plague. they are by far the most suspicious slots. implosion is a bit of a wild card, but i'm getting such good vibes from them that i would have a hard time seeing them as scum. still, being off the day 1 scumwagon will earn them some attention. but not yet. i am liking the strong town core of:

morthas
twisted
oopid
dj
juls

of the three left, implosion is the most cooperative. so that leaves plague/wicked. i'll backburner my suspicion of juls due mainly to her last couple posts and stick with these reads. i guess we wait on wicked.

[don_johnson]

in my neck of the woods, "sketch" would indicate "suspicious" or "lame". and i agree.

[don_johnson]

i mean you haven't thrown out any real bogus attacks. you seem to be looking at things analytically. i need to look into your activity(iso and reread), but i'm fairly confident you are not scum even though you were not on the day 1 wagon.

[don_johnson]

Meh. If someone hammers ill be ok with it.

[don_johnson]

He said "now." Not "later". That was two hours ago.

[don_johnson]

this is a waste of time. instead of posting his thoughts, he says "let me post my thoughts." seriously, tp needs to revote and implo hammers. gg.

[don_johnson]

* ts

[don_johnson]

^^ agreed. let's move this forward. his posts have been underwhelming, there is no reason to think what he posts next will be any better.

[don_johnson]

vote him already. he's referring to the likely set-up that there is a doctor, and that doctor protected someone last night which means two confirmed. please just lynch him. doctor, don't claim.

[don_johnson]

thats because the game is likely over. but whatever, if you just want to sit around and wait thats fine.

implosion, morthas, or wicked: please vote wicked so juls can hammer.

[don_johnson]

I also don't like how he has ignored my questions.

which questions? these?:

DJ is there something wrong with my defense?

what exactly is your defense? that you didn't give reasons with your votes in order to get reactions? i don't see anything wrong with that. it doesn't change the fact that you didn't give reasons. also, my understanding of the case against you was that juls pointed out that your play read like an early bus gone wrong.

DJ, what harm does giving me some time to post my thoughts do?

i'm bored. no harm. it just means we all have to sit here waiting for you.

oh wait, those were the only two.

lynch this scum please.

claim your role if its going to make a difference.

[don_johnson]

Yes.

Juls explained it.

You didn't. Please pay attention.

[don_johnson]

Because it is.

When she posted her initial "case", I believe.

Because its funny. You called me out for "ignoring quesions" when there were onlu two innocuous questions to which you were referring.

[don_johnson]

i'm fine switching to plague. would rather just see this wicked lynch through. he's refused to claim, and he's posted his thoughts. thats what i thought we were waiting for. but whatever.

[don_johnson]

i'll agree with most of what juls is saying. at this rate, we should just lynch down the line of players

not

on the day 1 wagon.

doc claim clears three people though, right? if we have a cop even better. maybe mass claim? or do we lynch plague first?

[don_johnson]

sweet. i think thats game.

i am jailkeeper.

targets: night one morthas, night two implosion.

[don_johnson]

no votes. general consensus, then we map out our night actions. both morthas and juls can still be scum in this scenario, though i doubt it. implosion has been flying under the radar for a while. its why i targeted him.

[don_johnson]

i'll agree with most of what juls is saying. at this rate, we should just lynch down the line of players

not

on the day 1 wagon.

implosion was not on the day 1 wagon. this was my round about way of working him into the lynch pool. remember, my role blocks

and

protects. i targeted implo because he was laying low. that is something town powerroles tend to do so i figured if he was town then he may be a good choice for nk. the cop claim changes things, though. i mean, we can still lose to a godfather role, but we should have the upper hand here if we lynch smart and orchestrate night actions(if necessary).

[don_johnson]

oopid: any breadcrumbs?

[don_johnson]

we could use this lynch on oopid. if he flips cop, i jail implo again. if theres an nk we lynch juls?

i don't know, just kind of brainstorming here...

[don_johnson]

gut says implo. if he flips town, i jail juls and oopid investigates me. then we lynch oopid? 3:6 is a wierd thought. hadn't occurred to me. i'd rather think that my skills are on fire...

[don_johnson]

Still doesn't clear you, though.

i'm not trying to clear me. i'm trying to win. i know i'm town and unless this is a no-kill set-up, i am more valuable than the cop at this point.

[don_johnson]

vote: implosion

similar to juls plan, but:

we lynch implosion. town flip means i jail juls. cop investigates juls.

if i die, lynch the cop. if he flips town, we should have enough clears to win 2:1 lylo.

godfather screws this plan, but godfather screws any plan. no?

[don_johnson]

lets just lynch juls then.

[don_johnson]

plague

is

the scummiest...

[don_johnson]

unvote

i want to hear this.

[don_johnson]

DJ, would you be ok with lynching plague and jailing implosion again? oopid should investigate whoever he wants and tell us tomorrow.

no. i'm starting to get very paranoid. i think implo is best lynch.

[don_johnson]

you, of course.

[don_johnson]

vote: implosion

[don_johnson]

Yes. Oopid investigates morthas, I jail juls. If I die, juls is clear, we lynch the cop or morthas(if guilty). If game still goes on we have a godfather(plague).

Right?

[don_johnson]

I dont know. Im thinking morthas actually. Why kill the cop if theres a godfather? If I had to choose id pick plague. And yes, unless scum has a way around a jk then juls is clear. What does morthas think?

[don_johnson]

We are if you are scum .

But seriously, lynch plague, jail morthas? Or lynch morthas, jail plague?

Spoon. What evidence is there of a scum blocker?

[don_johnson]

A gf makes sense. A ninja screws us. If im lieing, then town only has cop. Kind of wierd. I think we should all go back to scumhunting and reread this game.

[don_johnson]

Morthas has been lurking and coasting on his status. The rest of us have been very active.

[don_johnson]

Spoon, plague, and morthas:

Who is scum?

[don_johnson]

vote : juls

Jailing plague

[don_johnson]

You tell me. I still have to reread.

[don_johnson]

5 players. no lynch makes the game harder. we may as well lynch.

juls, be quiet please.

spoon: who is scum?

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote plague

Nah. Lets wait til hes back, let him post his reads and then lynch him. I jail spoon. If juls is roleblocker then I concede.

[don_johnson]

i'll consider it.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: no lynch

[don_johnson]

If scum has a roleblocker, id rather not say. Should we just see what happens?

[don_johnson]

we don't really have a clear unless i live. roleblocker trumps jk in this instance. if i'm calling my target, then we should be lynching plague. lylo>mylo for tomorrow if i am dead. i don't know, i'm confused.

[don_johnson]

i want to hear what plague had to say. i would jail plague or spoon. i agree with juls, if morthas is scum then he wins. if juls is scum then she wins, but i'm not letting plague or spoon win this, so lets figure this out between them. of note, 3 scum with some sort of jank handi-cap/ability means no lynch could lose us the game. not sure if i'm cool with it yet. want plague action.

unvote

[don_johnson]

agreed. that was wierd.

[don_johnson]

Juls, are you a ninja?

[don_johnson]

Yes. And it doesnt matter what plagues reads are.

vote plague

[don_johnson]

Unless you think im scum then his reads dont matter. Juls and morthas are clear, plague or spoon are scum. We lynch one today and one tomorrow unless I am nk'd.

[don_johnson]

If theres a roleblocker then its plague or morthas, but that doesnt explain 2 nights of no kills. Most likely is gf role. And again, juls is clear, I am clear, morthas is clear unless set up is completely jank. So whatever. Its still spoon or plague. Spoon is getting worse, so we'll see. I agree theres no rush, buy plagues reads still dont matter because unless we hav three scum, this ones in the bag.

[don_johnson]

morthas: who is scum?

[don_johnson]

I jailed spoon. No lynch wont work unless I agree to no jail, or we try something convoluted like wifoming my night action. I say we lynch spoon, protest the game if he flips town and morthas is scum. The neighbor role contains the facet that neighbors dont know each others alignments, so two mafia neighbors on the same team is broken. If thata the case, then our good play goes to waste and the mod knows to never run the set up again because its simply unfair. If morthas wins as sk then I applaud him, but aa mafia then I say fiddlesticks.

vote twistedspoon

[don_johnson]

the thought occurred to me around the same time it occurred to you. only thing is, if spoon isn't scum i'd most likely jail you again juls. i'm committed to protesting the game if morthas is scum. i'm actually thinking about putting your names and "no protect" into a hat and just playing our last night on pure luck if spoon flips town. its the only fairt thing i can think of. but i think its moot. spoon should have been voting morthas a long time ago accroding to his logic, but instead he votes no lynch and then votes me. its pretty senseless. i think gf is most likely role here, my only suspicion of juls would be her having some sort of one shot strong kill, but thats not really normal, and we aren't in a theme forum, so there it is.

morthas vote spoon. if he flips town i randomize my target. if morthas is scum i file a formal letter of some sort.

[don_johnson]

you're scum, aren't you? i doubt morthas will be coming in to vote anywhere other than you, so if you want to save us the time and self vote i won't think any less of you. the only way scum could win this game is if i am scum or if juls is scum. i am not scum, and unless juls is scum with a one shot strong kill ability, i highly doubt she's scum. the fact that you have voted no lynch and for me shows me you haven't really been scumhunting. so do us a solid and self vote. this game has been much longer than it needed to be.

[don_johnson]

Ok. How about we lynch morthas, then?

[don_johnson]

If morthas is scum then town is prolly going to win, so I dont see what the issue is. Also, your head thinks I no killed two nights in a row? What are you smokin? Seriously, self vote or vote morthas. No lynch is stupid.

[don_johnson]

No lynch is stupid because at this point it can be manipulated. Juls scum could have killed me last night to frame morthas, also, if juls is scum how do you explain her shooting through a jailkeep? Donscum could nk'd implosion instead of wasting an entire night simply to frame him for lynch. Scum is either you or morthas. No lynch accomplishes nothing. Julsscum wins this game. Donscum wins this game. The odda of either of those options being legit are ridiculous. you are not even trying to figure this out, you are just sitting there trying to not get lynched. Seriously, sont make us wait til tuesday. Self vote if you are scum...

[don_johnson]

Juls, where you at with things?

[don_johnson]

unvote

I want to know what morthas thinks. I am rereading and you all look scummy. One thing that keeps bothering me is why the cop was nk'd and the jk left alive...

[don_johnson]

vote: twistedspoon

if he flips town, i'm flipping a fucking coin. good night. spoon, be a sport and post some truth.

[don_johnson]

I now officially hate this game.

[don_johnson]

maybe. maybe not. i'm obviously not scum, so a) why aren't you voting?, and b) why aren't you voting?

[don_johnson]

Thats cute. Considering I jailed morthas.

Juls, if you are scum, then gg.

vote morthas

Hammer away.

[don_johnson]

Town here. Good nite.

[don_johnson]

Set up is ok. But the wiki should be updated for future games.

Good job town. Sorry we had to lynch all of you(almost).

Juls, I felt the same way. I flip flopped twice on the last night, but you played very town the whole way.

[don_johnson]

I dont think it was "bastard", but I certainly think the wiki should be updated. I agree with what hoopla has posted, but the wiki should be a reliable source of info, and in this case it is not.

[don_johnson]

A Neighbor is a person who may night talk with one or more other people,

but no one in the group is certain of the others' alignments

.

^^this. maybe an addendum(possibly referencing this game if need be) should be added that neighbors may

or may not

be certain of each others alignments.