Mini 1183: Mafiamatical Mathia - Game over!

[Twistedspoon]

Vote: Oopidstay.

Because I'm me.

so how does this self-vote help us to get out of RVS and do some serious scumhunting?

thought not

VOTE: Oopid

Hi Twisted ;D Not you Kalofer... you don't get a hi.

hey mothy

Kalofer gets a hi from me due to his insane biomass analogies :p
Hi kalofer.

[Twistedspoon]

Out of all the responses to the self-vote, his feels the most contrived. V

Omgus much?

My point was and is that the sooner we get out of RVS the sooner we can do serious scumhunting

self voting applies pressure on no-one and we get no nearer out of RVS

therefore self-voting is a pointless anchor into the RVS and offers no momentum to the game (by itself at least)

end case

[Twistedspoon]

Omgus much?
My point was and is that the sooner we get out of RVS the sooner we can do serious scumhunting
self voting applies pressure on no-one and we get no nearer out of RVS
therefore self-voting is a pointless anchor into the RVS and offers no momentum to the game

(by itself at least)

end case

Look above, it just got us out of RVS.

notice the '(by itself at least)'
sure, we might have got out of RVS (only time will tell) but that's because I picked up upon the self-vote

It took until Juls and myself to notice how vote-worthy it was
interessant

[Twistedspoon]

notice the '(by itself at least)'
sure, we might have got out of RVS (only time will tell) but that's because I picked up upon the self-vote

It took until Juls and myself to notice how vote-worthy it was
interessant

It is completely possible for someone to do something in order to gauge reactions soo yeeeah.

okay then

so what conclusions could be drawn from it?

people either notice the self vote or don't. I don't think either point directly to scum

[Twistedspoon]

my attitude to the self vote is inherently the same as Juls' as what else could be a problem with it?

[Twistedspoon]

I've explained why self voting is not the best way to gauge reactions
most attitudes are common among all factions and are either

1) that's pointless. Null tell
2) Look at that modesty. town tell
3) Self voting as to not vote another player and stay in everyone's good books. Scum tell

The town has varying opinions and any combination of these attitudes are seen in both town and scum

now tell me how a self-vote was a reaction gauge rather than a waste of pressure and momentum?

[Twistedspoon]

Of course self-voting doesn't generate moment

by itself

. If it did, it wouldn't be reaction hunting, would it? The whole point of doing something controversial is to see how people respond to it

but that's just it isn't it?

You didn't think it was controverisal as shown by

How is self-voting necessarily playing against my win condition?

Also

What makes my self-vote different enough to make you call it scummy while ignoring the three people I just mentioned?

ah the Tu Quoque logical fallacy

firstly

1) it doesn't matter that I haven't come round to the other players yet. Don't deflect onto them
2) I never called your self vote scummy now did I? I never said it was scummy. That's misrepping right there

[Twistedspoon]

Also:
1. So you do suspect them? The issue is why are you being selective in your application of suspicion? Why jump on me and not on one of those other three who, according to your reasoning for voting me, could just have easily garnered that vote?
2. So...you're saying that my self-vote was just anti-town. What does that make me, then? Anti-town as well?

1) to apply pressure obv. It seems to have worked. If you want my opinion on others though I think there might be one scum on my wagon. Kalofer and Impolsion's votes look like complete overreactions and an easy ticket to go unsuspected through my wagon

UNVOTE:

might have to do some thinking.

2) Your self vote was pointless at best. Unless you still think it was a good reaction fish in which case I would like to know what conclusions you were going to make from people pointing out that it was a waste of a vote

before

you self-voted

[Twistedspoon]

2. So...you're saying that my self-vote was just anti-town. What does that make me, then? Anti-town as well?

well... sorta

as DJ put it

the rvs self vote is a discussion starter, but the ensuing discussion generally ends up being something more at home in a theory thread than in a game. at least thats my experience. self voting can actually be a useful tool if done right, but i think it takes experience to know when and how. it can help out regardless of your own alignment.

in short:

rvs self vote is null, anti-town. juls has every right to say this:

Right now, it's the worst vote out there. I have no reason to move my vote until he proves himself.

Kalofer and Impolsion's votes look like complete overreactions and an easy ticket to go unsuspected through my wagon

Yeah, I'm uncomfortable with the implosion sheeping too. I've played with implosionscum before. this is similar

VOTE: implosion

[Twistedspoon]

I'm still wary of you, Twisted, but I'll buy the pressure argument for now.

and I'm still slightly wary of you but this ceasefire seems for the best

[Twistedspoon]

Kalofer and Oopidstay are scum.

Vote: Kalofer

cool

how sure are you? Any reasons?

[Twistedspoon]

Kalofer and Impolsion's votes look like complete overreactions and an easy ticket to go unsuspected through my wagon

Implosion was the first person to vote you.

first vote or not it was still a complete overreaction to me pointing out that a self-vote isn't exactly that helpful. But I want to move on from the self-vote topic for now. I'm prepared to go along with the reaction fishing story.

I shall concede the point that I forgot implosion was the first vote though. My memory had oop as voter #1. nvm
I'm interested in your kalofer/oop theory right now

Is it unreasonable for Oopidstay to have assumed that you found the self vote suspicious? If so, why?

sorta. At the end of the day it was just an RVS vote. But it was suspicious/worthy enough for an RVS vote if that makes sense to you

I've played with implosionscum before. this is similar

Link, please.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 34&start=0

Implosion and I didn't post much in that game. I have a faint memory of posts that didn't fit in though. This game is rather hazy in my mind :/

[Twistedspoon]

How did implosion and Kalofer overreact, in your opinion? And why is that suspicious? Personally, I see no overreactions.

well from my PoV the votes were enough of an overreaction. I played my part by pointing out the self-vote and placing my RVS vote on oop.
Pointing out the obvious and adding a page 1 RVS vote does not usually merit such a response in my experience :/

[Twistedspoon]

i voted him because of the self vote, sure. It was pressure worthy and something to talk about. I also wanted to get the game going and build some momentum which a self-vote usually doesn't create

but at the end of the day it was still an RVS vote. Self votes could have come from any alignment so I didn't consider it particularly scummy, just something that was just asking to be questioned and voted.

Kalofer? Eh
he has one post with content so it's hard to say.
Town? Maybe. Deluded town if he is though. He got the wrong end of the stick in our last game together too when he could have confirmed me as town and prevented my lynch, but he chose not to for some bizzare reason. So it doesn't surprise me that kalofer may have the wrong end of the stick here too.

I'll give him a null-town read, which is really generous since he has only one post of content

and looking back through the microscopic Kalofer iso I am reminded that Plaguey is in this game, but he hasn't shown up

@Mod: does plaguey know the game has started? If not, remind him please

can we take plague's lateness as a town tell? Surely in the scum QT he would have been alerted if the game had begun? I don't know :p

[Twistedspoon]

c'mon plaguey

the party's just getting started

[Twistedspoon]

is this another instance where you're witholding reasons?

[Twistedspoon]

Ummm TS quoted himself as justification for a vote.

so?

I was showing the vote wasn't spontaneous and that I had considered it before

problem?

[Twistedspoon]

TwistedSpoon's reaction does strike me as odd for the same reason that Oopidstay stated. He called it "contrived," I'd call it "manufactured." TS tries to portray himself as a townie by urging scumhunting so early and by referring to "us."

It's assumptions like these that make me tear my hair

saying my reaction was 'manufactured.' I know that I myself am a townie so it's bizzare to suggest that I would 'manufacture' a reason
am I scum because I manufactured or manufactured because I'm scum?

If you lynch me on the basis that a reaction seems manufactured then you sir need to have your reaction analysis license taken away.

UNVOTE:

You still haven't told me why quoting myself was a bad thing plague. I disapprove of your unreasoned point

[Twistedspoon]

As for the quoting yourself, it was phrased

exactly

as if someone else said a suggestion that you agreed with, so you voted implosion. You basically used yourself as a reason to vote implosion. Not only that, but you were sheeping onto the implosion wagon immediately after falsely accusing implosion of sheeping.

the quote was to show it wasn't a spontaneous Juls sheep, but that I had considered it before

and I was wrong about the sheeping. I apologise, and I unvoted

[Twistedspoon]

Teehee you spelled "apoligize" with an S, silly British jk

haha

I see you Americans have a sense of Humo

u

r

[Twistedspoon]

as for the kalofer wagon I approve of it. Fencesitting yet wagoning at the same time. sigh

i want to hear like his response though before I vote. He has like 2 posts so far.

[Twistedspoon]

Well the reason to lynch him would be the fact that he's acting scummy, just because I'm having doubts that he could be a townie doesn't mean I don't think he's more likely to be scum. Besides I have no one scummier to vote for. How is asking the plague why he didn't vote for someone for whom he made a case against scummy?

1) 'acting scummy' is the sort of thing I'd expect skimreading scum to say. It's vague. I don't like it
2) no one is scummier to vote for doesn't cut it either. 'well the rest of you aren't acting scummy, I'll vote for TS. He must be scum'
I also don't like how you say no-one else has been scummy. What are the 3 scummiest things you've seen so far not from myself? If you say there aren't any I shall be annoyed

I don't like this response at all
I had a third point but I must admit I forgot it

VOTE: Kalofer

[Twistedspoon]

maybe

but I quite like this wagon. I think we may have mafioso here

[Twistedspoon]

using speed of a wagon as a scumtell? well I think we may have scum here and it looks like 3 others agree with me.

If I think I've got scum I vote them. Everything else is second place. I don't see why I shouldn't vote for my prime suspect just because their wagon is growing fast

[Twistedspoon]

There are lots of reasons not to put someone at L-1 so quickly. For one, they could self-hammer before we had a chance to keep talking. Scum could hammer them before we got a claim. Some bad townie could come along and hammer them before we got a claim. It's page 5, I don't see how any of you could be so dead set on him being scum from two comments that were not lynchable in-of-themselves.

self-hammering

I won't even consider it. If a townie in this game self hammers then I'll make them play newbie games for life. If a mafioso self hammers then what's the problem (aside from a shorter day)

if anyone hammered it would also make them look very scummy and I don't think scum would take that risk

I like my vote on kalofer and the growth of his wagon won't make me find him any less scummy today.
I do see that ending the day this early is bad though

Twistedspoon: is it a coincidence that your main suspects are Kalofer and I (the first two people that voted you) or would you say that you suspect us for having voted you?

I suspect you a lot less when I realised my vote on you was completely wrong and I had my chronology mixed up. kalofer is still scummy though.

I don't like Twisted's attempt to justify the danger of the day ending, it's common sense why ending the day so fast would be bad for town

I was trying to justify my vote on kalofer, not the day ending.
I realise that an early night is the last thing we want

[Twistedspoon]

on the one hand

I.) I have encountered reasonless suspicion from town, sure, but what I dislike here is that you are calling two people scum WITH NO REASON and then FoSing someone else WITH reason. Now, you have done it again in this post. I have also seen scum vote one person and express suspicion on the other. The person who gets the suspicion but not the vote then turns out to be his scumbuddy.

makes a lot of sense

on the other hand I just can't see wicked scum naming a scumteam on what was like his first post. Making 2 enemies from post 1 would not be a smart move at all for wickedscum, especially without giving reasons.

I think Wicked is town

[Twistedspoon]

All I'm saying is that if wicked's scum he's playing very bold

[Twistedspoon]

I thought I'd get criticised for having a town read on him

[Twistedspoon]

what do you think of Kalofer, Juls? (wagon speed aside)

[Twistedspoon]

To be honest, I'm starting to doubt that Kalofer and Oopidstay are scumbuddies after rereading the thread, but I think they are both suspicious individually.

so who are then?

do you think Juls' suspicion of you is a town one?

what impression do you have of don?

[Twistedspoon]

I agree with impolsion

were'nt you against a page 6 day end? And kalofer was going to catch up too

and admitting your hammer is scummy doesn't make it less so :/

[Twistedspoon]

Juls is obvtown now, btw.

why?

I still find that hammer very scummy even if it was on mafioso

I think no one would have done that hammer so early unless they knew it was going to be a mafia flip

I'm interested in why you say Juls is obvtown.

[Twistedspoon]

Vote: Morthas

ISO him and look at his behavior with regards to Kalofer. It's suspiciously...null.

implosion was just as null on kalofer. why not vote him?

also, do need to point out wicked is obvtown now.

Scum would not reveal their buddy so early as such

Kalofer and Oopidstay are scum.

Vote: Kalofer

[Twistedspoon]

to look town obv. Also to cut the day for townie discussion. Things could have gotten worse..

I'm unsure why scum would do it, but I really have no clue why town would. So early and with so much risk. In her last post Juls even said

He is null-leaning town.

this was in her post right before the hammer

basically if Kalofer had flipped town Juls would have been obvscum. Therefore Juls would have not made that move unless she knew Kalofer was going to flip scum

therefore

Juls

[Twistedspoon]

that last word was meant to be

VOTE: Juls

[Twistedspoon]

don, I think you're thinking of traitor... neighbors are alignment-unconfirmed masons.

this

might look at the kalofer iso

[Twistedspoon]

I think it's safe to assume that there's only one mafioso left, as a three-scum game would be at LyLo after a single mislynch. Unless there's no NK, but that wouldn't be a Normal I don't think.

that's not a bad point actually

this is a hoppster game. I am expecting the unexpected.

I liked don's Idea about 2 mafia 1 traitor. that could work. I don't know.

mafiamatical mathia just reeks of complicated setup though

[Twistedspoon]

I think I may be able to shed some light

VOTE: implo
Lurking before the game even starts thus making me refresh this page so many goddamn times.

Hi Twisted ;D Not you Kalofer... you don't get a hi.

Morthas, Kalofer, and I had just finished playing Candy zoo mafia when this game started

since it was very recent and we were all together it's not

that

unusual that he mentioned myself and kalofer

Just thought I'd tell you

[Twistedspoon]

if Morthas comes along are we expecting him to claim?

[Twistedspoon]

okays

still want to hear from Juls though

I still think that hammer would have been way to risky for town to do

[Twistedspoon]

my point is that if morthas isn't scum I don't intend on anyone riding a scum hammer to the endgame

[Twistedspoon]

agreed

[Twistedspoon]

UNVOTE:

I'll give Juls time

I need to consider other options too

[Twistedspoon]

still not seeing the crumb

including their names doesn't count as a good crumb

in fact you could argue myself or plague are the neighbours too, since they mentioned us, using that logic

[Twistedspoon]

I am indeed a neighbour and i know Kalofer IRL so that's where the early game jokes come from (plus my biased attitude against him)

you're both from Cyprus

anyways

Question to Juls: on a scale of surprise, 1 being utterly expected and 10 being an early Christmas for a Paraguayan Orphan, how surprised were you at the kalofer scumflip?

Question to wicked:

Kalofer and Oopidstay are scum.

Vote: Kalofer

you have one correct so far. Congrats. How confident are you now that Oopid is the partner and do you think another player might be the mafioso. Furthermore how did you view the hammer and what is the most incriminating thing in your opinion from the kalofer iso?

[Twistedspoon]

@Mod: Why would you force-replace someone for setup speculation?

If we all speculate then I guess we all get replaced out

[Twistedspoon]

whatever

I just don't want a morthas lynch after he has claimed neighbour

[Twistedspoon]

why plague indeed?

[Twistedspoon]

Juls' hammer is obviously a towntell since it fell on scum and it would be pretty insane for scum to hammer their partner that early in a 9-person game

really?

she could just hyperbus her partner and be confirmed town for the rest of the game. what's so hard about that?

I remember in one of my games I fakeclaimed one-shot cop as scum and tried to ride to the endgame with a guilty result on my partner.
and I've seen it in other games too

but I don't think Juls is a viable lynch at this stage anyways so enough on that topic from myself.

I want to hear from morthas about kalofer's talk in their QT

[Twistedspoon]

so don is either the bravest, boldest scum in the world for trying to lynch an 'obvtownie' or he finds a legitimate reason to be suspicious of Juls.
I believe the former

If don was scum I can't see him taking such a gamble by trying to start a Juls wagon. He was in Jul's good books too.
Don is town and suspects Juls. Simples

whether you agree with his suspicions of Juls or not is irrelevant. Suspecting Juls, the most ruthless (and obvtown according to oopid) player in this game would be a suicidal thing for scum to do.

[Twistedspoon]

yeah, I meant latter

[Twistedspoon]

implosion - For this. I don't think scum would ask this question after his buddy was just hammered.

why not?

maybe he was bitter about his buddy being hammered

[Twistedspoon]

I assume you had daytalk then

[Twistedspoon]

I don't think declaring Twisted confirmed town is a good thing.

I have my reasons that I cannot discuss at the moment.

well why mention then if you can't discuss them?

if anything it only makes you a more prime scum kill candidate since you have extra info it seems

[Twistedspoon]

oh, okay

I think I know what you mean actually

I'd like to point out that the situation is different but I do realise it would probably be rash to put me as confirmed town at this point anyways
If we're thinking of the same game hopefully it shouldn't be too long before we can discuss it

[Twistedspoon]

Hey Twistedspoon, what are your thoughts on Wicked and why aren't you voting him?

becuase he's V/LA and want him to answer my questions I asked him earlier first

[Twistedspoon]

I suppose it is doing nothing

but I think he's town. I don't think scum would make a big case on their partner after each of them had only one post.

[Twistedspoon]

yay more Juls fun

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 7#p3122407

[Twistedspoon]

but srsly, I don't think scum would just go right for their buddy and call him scum for sure from like post 1

what's your case on wicked?

[Twistedspoon]

okay

I get it now

I have a WKD side

VOTE: Wicky

[Twistedspoon]

i think its foolish to let juls slip by. her hammer only makes sense under certain conditions, and she has denied all of them. my hope is that if we have another night, scum call juls "soft claim bluff bullshit" and shoot her ass.

they probably won't shoot her now that you've said you suspect her

anyways, I don't remember a softclaim

[Twistedspoon]

as a side note I can't wait to hear what kalofer's been saying about me in his QT

eh, no more wicked votes until he returns (This probably didn't need to be said)

[Twistedspoon]

currently i find it harder to think scum is in juls, oopid, spoon, and morthas.

I can agree with this and the rest of the paragraph

weak towntell of the day

: plague was last to join us saying he didn't know when the game began. I think he would know if he was given a scum QT as it would be closed. But w/e Like I say it's weak

on the other hand plague seemed opportunistic riding my wagon when he first appeared in this game so that can go go on his opportunistic tally if you like

Plague's only my 3rd or 4th highest scum read and I'm only expecting one scum left.
I'll agree with DJ. Implosion is a wildcard. :/
And I'm even happy to trust Juls on wicked after her recent townie posts

[Twistedspoon]

His recent posts are alleviating my suspicion of him. Plague's attack on don was sketch.

sketch?

[Twistedspoon]

no

at the very least we're getting a claim

and hopefully a catchup post

[Twistedspoon]

UNVOTE:

i want to hear from wicked

[Twistedspoon]

whatever

I just don't want a hammer yet

[Twistedspoon]

they can't hammer, I unvoted

[Twistedspoon]

hey Juls, who were the 4 scum?

[Twistedspoon]

If you guys really think there's a case against me, then I guess I'm not completely opposed to being lynched.

if you're town then you should be completely against your lynch so as to play to your wincon

also, what's the scummiest thing you've seen D2

do you still think oopid is the other scum?

other reads?

[Twistedspoon]

depends what you mean by confirmed

[Twistedspoon]

at the very least I want a claim

[Twistedspoon]

depends

For example; if he claims doc and there's no counterclaim I'd believe that as there was no kill last night

[Twistedspoon]

if wicked isn't scum I want the satisfaction of hammering D3 :3

[Twistedspoon]

just remembered

Also someone may have already pointed this out, but we have two confirmed townies, I think.

who do you mean?

[Twistedspoon]

what's the rush?

this day might be huge by yesterday's standards but I haven't heard enough yet. It just seems to be the same people.
Need more implosion & co.

[Twistedspoon]

why?

what's wrong with wanting to hear from wicked?
I saw him log on a sec ago

[Twistedspoon]

surely scum want the opposite of stalling anyaways

[Twistedspoon]

wicked is logged in now

If he doesn't post/claim/whatever then I'll satisfy you

[Twistedspoon]

if wicked flips town I'm looking at plague

he's alawys been on the easiest wagons in my opinion and trying to end the day so soon without a claim has no town motivation. Only scum wanting to secure a mislynch

[Twistedspoon]

in which he acts as though Juls is an obvtownie and voting her would be a brave move. Why, then, did Twistedspoon vote for Juls? Furthermore, I find it very strange how Twistedspoon voted Juls, unvoted, then voted the person Juls was voting as a result of her persuasion. It looks like he

knows

Juls is town.

Read:

Scum

[/area]

way to mis rep

I was using their own logic, not mine when I called Juls obvtownie at that point. Back then I did not find Juls obvtownie myself.
But i was using their logic of Juls being regarded as obvtownie, not my own

and yes, Juls did persuade me

Still think plague might be scum though. His last post was rather 'Well they did it too'

VOTE: Plague

I'll vote wicked though if Juls will hammer just to make it more likely for plague scum should wicked flip town.

[Twistedspoon]

I'm trying to play to my win condition and get a scum lynched instead.

contradiction

I'm not completely opposed to being lynched. I

have

been lacking activity-wise (and I'm expecting to be V/LA again in the future, but that is a problem that can be easily solved without lynching). And lynching me also means that we get to see at least two more awesome lynch scenes!

w/e

plague is my favourite lynch

his entrance onto my wagon and wicked's looked so much like he was trying to ride on the easiest.

Plague was also suspiciously absent from the Kalofer wagon too

If wicked flips town (which I think he will) then I'll know that plague was on the 2 easy townie wagons and not only the only scum wagon

I feel plague is scum.

[Twistedspoon]

plague is my favourite lynch

his entrance onto my wagon and

wicked's looked so much like he was trying to ride on the easiest.

Plague was also suspiciously absent from the Kalofer wagon too

If wicked flips town

(which I think he will)

then I'll know that plague was on the 2 easy townie wagons and not only the only scum wagon

I feel plague is scum.

If you think I'm town and think my bandwagon is an easy one, then why in the world were you voting me? I don't like it.

1) plague became more scummy through your wagon
2) Juls did have a good case
3) you needed pressure. seriosuly
4) I'm not voting you now am I?
5) Easy doesn't always mean town

[Twistedspoon]

TS, if you still like Wicked for scum ,vote him and I will give him 24 hours to claim before I hammer.

I don't, but he's annoying me with his tomfoolery and saying I'm scum

I though Morthas said after Kalofer's ramblings about me in their QT the chance of me being scum was very low.

I shall, however, vote wicked if we give plague the same attention tommorow as we gave wicked today. He's the most likely to be mafioso in my opinion right now

I am part of the town, and the town want wicked though.

VOTE: wicked

whenever Juls

[Twistedspoon]

I just realised that we have the possibly of a "truly perfect" town win with no townies dying (assuming the scumcount is 2 and not 4, Juls )

shame we have to give it up but w/e

plague is the last mafioso. I have good confidence in that. Everyone else apart from wicked (null?) is a town read. I shall get him tommorow

[Twistedspoon]

Lynch Twistedspoon tomorrow

we're not popcorn lynching

however i'd glady go if it meant I could have a plagfue lynch in the same way wicked iss trying to get mine

now that wicked's gone I think we rerally need to consider plaguey tommorow

[Twistedspoon]

give me a V
V

give me a T
T

VT

[Twistedspoon]

I also like to think don is clear. I see no reason to find him scummy and his role makes him even more town

at this point I'm thinking Juls is scum because of all the near-clears we have now

VOTE: Juls

I can go back to the kalofer hammer. It was way to risky to do unless you knew kalofer was going to flip scum

[Twistedspoon]

actually maybe it's implosion, what with Don jailkeeping him,

UNVOTE:

I think it's one of them two

I'll trust the jailkeeper. I see no reason why Juls would want to kill implosion (although I'm not sure who Juls would kill if a morthas kill failed already)

[Twistedspoon]

Wait, doesn't the possibility of a godfather invalidate all of Oopid's results?

yep

[Twistedspoon]

@oopid: have you played as scum before on mafiascum? If so can you link me to a scum game of yours (one that you lived until LyLo in)

[Twistedspoon]

in all honesty I think juls is the last scum

lynch Juls
jailkeep oopid
oopid investigates Juls

sounds a good plan. It has it's weaknesses in that we assume there is no godfather (which shouldn't be too unreasonable. I personally don't see why they're allowed in normal games. they're as bad as janitors or bus drivers to me), that morthas is town, and that oopid and don are telling the truth

[Twistedspoon]

lynch implosion
jailkeep oopid
oopid investigates Juls

is what i meant to say

[Twistedspoon]

i hate godfathers

they just negate the point of a cop

[Twistedspoon]

sadly for us godfather is a normal role

here's my new plan

we no lynch today and jailkeep juls tonight. If there's a kill then Juls is clear
If there is no kill then there is no loss and we repeat again the process with different investigations until we get a guilty.
that way we either get a clear or no NK. both are good

[Twistedspoon]

implosions plan works great only if we get the scum the first night because don is dying otherwise.

not if don jailkeeps correctly

whoever don jailkeeps is confirmed if there is a kill and if there is no kill then there is no loss

RBs and godfathers ruin things though

[Twistedspoon]

Juls scum is looking less likely with all the 'I'd rather be lynched posts.' the same can be said for implosion too

I'm buying the jailkeeper claim as no kills occured
I'm also buying the cop claim as oopid dropped his case on me D2

the way i see it, implosion would not have been targeted for a nightkill. The jailkeeping must have been to stop him commiting the kill

VOTE: implosion

[Twistedspoon]

implosion, if we assume don is telling the truth, why do you think you were targeted by the mafia?

[Twistedspoon]

Also, in the world where we follow my plan I would prefer plague be the first lynch.

agreed

[Twistedspoon]

I don't want to lynch Juls

[Twistedspoon]

That's fine, lets plan it out before voting first though ok?

scum do not say 'that's fine' to their own lynch

[Twistedspoon]

@mod: why is implosion on L-2?

Mod-Edit:

Fixeth'd.

[Twistedspoon]

I think he was saying assuming he was lynched (flipping town being the consequence of the lynch)

either way I see no reason why scum would aim to kill implosion over the likes of Juls and thus don't see why no kill occured when implosion was jailkept unless impolsion was scum

Don is either the jailkeeper or is very clever scum by NK'ing for the past 2 nights to validate his claim :/
hmm

[Twistedspoon]

@oopid: have you played as scum before on mafiascum? If so can you link me to a scum game of yours (one that you lived until LyLo in)

can you answer this oopid?

[Twistedspoon]

nevermind then

[Twistedspoon]

winner winner chicken dinner?

[Twistedspoon]

some posh Boys-only school in the Midlands I assume

[Twistedspoon]

I just have a bad feeling in my gut about this game though. I feel like we are about to get setup screwed at any minute.

ditto

if scum have a roleblocker...

[Twistedspoon]

Spoon. What evidence is there of a scum blocker?

none. maybe balance, i don't know

but there could be...

[Twistedspoon]

Morthas always lurks

[Twistedspoon]

lynch morthas jail plague?

[Twistedspoon]

who is scum? Plague or morthas.

[Twistedspoon]

I really cannot buy that Juls and plague are too willing to be lynched, don hyperbussed kalofer and No killed twice, and that Morthas has done zilch and is living off of a breadcrumb

eitherways, if don doesn't die tonight then we know ho the mafia are

[Twistedspoon]

well do you think don could be scum?

[Twistedspoon]

VOTE: plague

9 player game

2 scum vs Jailkeeper + cop + 5VTs

I can see a godfather

Juls, if you're a mafia roleblocker then we've messed up

[Twistedspoon]

it might be a good strategy, but I think plague is scum

plague or Juls roleblocker is all i can see, and I'm not wasting a jailkeep by lynching Juls

[Twistedspoon]

I nominate plague

[Twistedspoon]

because I think plague may be our mafioso

[Twistedspoon]

the qualm is that scum could frame me

but w/e

you can jail me if you want to. I won't argue

[Twistedspoon]

why Juls?

did you not jail her?

or do you think she's a roleblocker?

[Twistedspoon]

wtf don?

[Twistedspoon]

who is scum? Plague or morthas.

i answered that here

[Twistedspoon]

but why Juls?

If you Jailkept her she should be clear unless you think she's a roleblocker

[Twistedspoon]

Jul's willingness to be jailkept might have meant she was a roleblocker

then she'd have the game in the bag

[Twistedspoon]

but then again she was also willing to be lynched...

[Twistedspoon]

plague beat me at chess so I might go along with the theory that he's clever scum in volunteering to be lynched (although I'm terribad at chess so that doesn't count for much)

[Twistedspoon]

If scum has a roleblocker, id rather not say. Should we just see what happens?

but then if you die we have no clue

[Twistedspoon]

Happy birthday kalofer

[Twistedspoon]

you jailkeep plague and we'll lynch morthas

then if we lose it'll be to either a godfather, scum roleblocker, or crafty scum who NK'd twice
all of those are worthy winners, unlike a morthas who we may regret never lynching

[Twistedspoon]

I have no problem leaving morthas be if Juls does indeed rage at the reviewrs if He's scum. That should be

amusing

thought-provoking

VOTE: plague

jail me tonight then

[Twistedspoon]

can't wait 'till saturday

best option is plague lynch for convenience and wincon

[Twistedspoon]

>_>

still voting plague

[Twistedspoon]

^sure

[Twistedspoon]

whatever happens soon because I'm bored of waiting

[Twistedspoon]

lynch me jail plague isn't a bad plan actually, and I wouldn't mind discussing avocados with oopid in the dead QT at all

[Twistedspoon]

agreed

[Twistedspoon]

plague just posted in mish mash just to let you know

[Twistedspoon]

^agreed (well technically there could be a roleblocker and morthas is clear on an assumption which the mod is touchy about, but I agree that they are mostly clear)

[Twistedspoon]

^this

[Twistedspoon]

doesn't scum just have to NK now to get me lynched and win?

[Twistedspoon]

sigh

the only true winner here is hoppster

[Twistedspoon]

I would be powerless if I was scum tonight as I expect to be jailkept. Unless I was a scum Roleblocker. meh

I still think plague is scum

[Twistedspoon]

The way I see it we either have:

Morthas who is scum neighbor which essentially means scum mason which is not allowed and will make my brain explode if he wins - Shrug. I have to trust Juls on this
Don who is not a real jailkeeper and for some reason No Killed for two nights after his scum buddy died - Unlikely, but I applaud Don if this is the case
Plague was scum Godfather and thinks it's funny to keep this going until Monday. At which point I would be very angry. - We'll see
Juls is an insanely good player and figured out a way to win which is beyond my level of comprehension - Looks likely
Hoppster is a mod who gave out 1 too few mafia role PMs - ....

[Twistedspoon]

You should be asking plague to admit, I'm not the one you're looking for compadré

Happy birthday though

I hope you enjoy blowing out all 21 of your candles

P-edit: I agree this is like chess. plenty of white-knighting :3

[Twistedspoon]

probably not

[Twistedspoon]

like don said, you could be a scum ninja Juls

I expect hoppster to put uncommon roles like that in

[Twistedspoon]

don gets a scummy nomination for choosing to no kill?

I've seen that tactic in a newbie game of mine. shrug

I think don's telling the truth. 1 active PR for town is too few.

[Twistedspoon]

y'know something been bothering me

[Twistedspoon]

I feel like there's still something else

[Twistedspoon]

Oopid's last post

Avocados suck. Go town!

why would he mention avocado's? It's not like an-in joke we have??

Does anyone think oopid was trying to tell us something? (and yes, I know it would be completely illegal)

@Morthas: Do you happen to like avocado's by any chance?

[Twistedspoon]

probably

anyways, Like you say, unless plague flips scum or you plan on not lynching me tommorow, I can't see how we can win

I might review the thread if we get another night phase

[Twistedspoon]

good find

you deserve to win just for that Morthas

[Twistedspoon]

Plague, If you're not scum...

[Twistedspoon]

then who is if I'm not?

[Twistedspoon]

'pretend' I'm not

who is?

[Twistedspoon]

above question is to all

[Twistedspoon]

I still think 1 active PR is crazy. Don is Jailkeeper Fo'sure

It's probably you morthas

[Twistedspoon]

^This is actually a pretty mean thing to do if Morthas is scum

It's not his fault if the setup is like this

[Twistedspoon]

that night phase felt like forever

anyways

1) Don, did you jailkeep me?

if so I've been framed. hooray

2) it's best to no-lynch and jailkeep the real scum tonight. If we jailkeep morthas and there is no kill again it's him. There's nothing to lose as you could lynch me anyways the next day if we no--lynch now

but more info is always preferable

VOTE: NL

[Twistedspoon]

Juls, do you think I'm scum?

can't blame you if you do though

[Twistedspoon]

that makes me feel slightly better...

but let it be said I never claimed scum, because I'm not

[Twistedspoon]

also, V/LA in advanace from sometime tommorow until sunday

[Twistedspoon]

I got a guilty from oopid?

I think godfather would be too mean in 9p

[Twistedspoon]

^whoops

that's meant to say innocent

[Twistedspoon]

Heliman replaces Sunday. Give him a warm welcome

[Twistedspoon]

I'm not thinking right today am I?
sorry, wrong game :p

[Twistedspoon]

don, are you mafia?

if so I'm stealing your trick next time I'm scum

[Twistedspoon]

although I feel as scum he might have chosen doc rather than jailkeeper; less complications and such

[Twistedspoon]

You know, I just thought. This thing isn't over if TS isn't scum. DJ will jail Morthas in the night and we can vote him tomorrow. The only way it gets screwed is if don is mafia and then I will cry.

I find it odd how this idea didn't occur to don

VOTE: don

I promise you, on the grounds of Hoppster's life, that i am not scum this game

[Twistedspoon]

If Don is scum I will make him feel bad for the rest of his time on earth for tricking me. But I don't think he is scum.

how about we lynch him and you make me feel bad for the rest of my time on earth if i'm scum (i'm not)

oopid investigated me for a purpose. we've already thrown away one of his results. I don't want the cop to be entirely in vain and I think a godfather would be borderline bastard-role in a 9P game. The chance he would be investigated and then coast to the endgame is not that low with 9 players

[Twistedspoon]

k, i'd rather lose to morthas scum than donscum

[Twistedspoon]

why can't we nolynch in mylo anyways?

[Twistedspoon]

you're scum, aren't you? i doubt morthas will be coming in to vote anywhere other than you, so if you want to save us the time and self vote i won't think any less of you.

you would

Think of it this way

If i was town and self-voted now, even though my lynch looks near-certain, it wouldn't be good play at all

I am town

I propose we no lynch until a kill occurs

VOTE: NL

alternatively morthas could come and hammer me, whichever suits you

[Twistedspoon]

better write up your neigbourizer complaints though.

[Twistedspoon]

my gut says it's juls but my head says it can't be

my head says it's don but my gut says no

and every part of my body will just ragequit if morthas is actually the mafioso

[Twistedspoon]

i don't see how neighbours can be scum together...

why is no lynch stupid?

Also, your head thinks I no killed two nights in a row? What are you smokin?

well look now, if you were/are scum you're tactic is working fine

[Twistedspoon]

i'm not scum

I am just a very confused townie

VOTE: morthas

[Twistedspoon]

shame on you hoppster

this is no place for dirty tricks

[Twistedspoon]

not sure why morthas targeted implosion though

[Twistedspoon]

nominate Juls for future mini normal reviewer

you know your setup should be a mini normal when you have to defend it >_>

oh, and if hoppster can get away with this then my next mini normal will have 8 millers, 2 cops and 3 mafia godfathers.

[Twistedspoon]

why kill implosion, morthas

killing Juls would have probably won you the game tbh

[Twistedspoon]

setup aside it was a good game
gg

[Twistedspoon]

oh, and if hoppster can get away with this then my next mini normal will have 8 millers, 2 cops and 3 mafia godfathers.

I wanna play!

Millerfest

TM

201

2

ideally the town don't know the setup so hilarity ensues when all the townies are conf. scum and the scum conf. town

[Twistedspoon]

nah, keep them regular millers and see if the town figure it out

[Twistedspoon]

Post the Role PMs, please.

he did in post 689.

this is true