Newbie 1109: Paradise City (Game Over)

verydark · Post Post #200 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:26 am

Maziek wrote: A vote is supposed to be used to pressure someone or to lynch someone that you think is scummy.

Wow, Ok. So then I'm not scummy for pressuring Illmatic with an L-1 vote, one of your many ridiculous reasons for targeting me as scum. Ignoring you, I asked you a question and you didn't respond. Let me repeat.

How is Bulvious and Otalia putting Dark on L-1 to "pressure him to talk" NOT the EXACT same situation as me putting Ill on L-1 to pressure HIM to talk.

I'm totally on board to wagon you, because as I already mentioned, you're my top scum pick because I'm really starting to feel like you're explicitly targeting me as a way to avoid being pegged as scum because you're actively involved by means of posting, but really not pressuring anyone else or debating their scumminess. In other words, not really contributing to the "Scum Hunt".

Since you have such a problem with me not casting my "top scum pick" vote on you, here you go. Allow me to get this party started.

UNVOTE: Bulvious
VOTE: Maziek

As for Otolia, I think he gets really worked up and defensive, which could be considered scummy, but gauging by how everyone is nitpicking over the most (in my opinion) absurd "scum tells", I can understand his frustration.

Maziek · Post Post #201 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:48 am

You're scummy because of the way you put him at L-1. You put him at L-1 for little to no reason except "he wasn't posting" when you had a null read on him, which was shown when you unvoted him right after he spoke.

I answered that question.

Maziek wrote:@VeryDark:

...Attack as in state why I'm scummy. Gosh darn it tell me why I'm scummy. I didn't mean attack as in be like "FUCK YOU LOL" >_>

Bulvious was the L-3 vote. He wasn't the person to vote. As he said, he shouldn't be blamed for that since he's not in control of jack ****. People have their own minds and thoughts. Just because he said that doesn't mean it should come true.

You can call it provoking. I call it you being scummy and me wanting you lynched. I don't care if you "slip up" considering that you've shown that you're quite scummy through your actions.

Second to last line sounds like an Appeal to Emotion. Do not like.

I called Otolia's vote out too (for different reasons of course), so you're not alone.

Not pressuring anyone else or debating their scumminess? Have you been reading my posts at all? I've called 3 people (You, Otolia, and Bulvious) out based on scummy action, two of which I pursued after(You and Otolia) and the last one has yet to respond. If this is your attack on me, then wow. Just wow. You really are ignoring me. You STILL didn't answer my question, either.

After being asked so much, you finally do it. Good job you're learning *clap clap*.

Do you think Otolia is town, null, or scum based on that sentence?

Bulvious · Post Post #202 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:02 am

I have a couple problems with a few people.

Maziek - My read on you is town, but it appears to me as though you're being intentionally abrasive, at least toward Oto, but really you're just giving what you're getting, aren't you. You laugh at the idea of a wagon, and shrug it off, but out of curiosity, what would be your defense? Or will you reserve that until it's needed?
Additionally, in regards to your complaint that I'm making excuses, I'm not really. I said pretty blatantly that I had no defense and could give you nothing but that I wasn't paying attention. I know it wouldn't be a good enough answer for ME, so I don't see why it should for anyone else. In hindsight, I don't care that he got L-1, of course. He could have been lynched, which would have provided us with SOME information at least, of course if he flipped town I think I'd probably be in the frier, but thankfully we didn't hang him. If he wasn't (and he wasn't, and I didn't think he would be) lynched, he could have come back with PLENTLY of things to do (such as clearing his case) so maybe he would have become interested again

. And, barring that, we have Yonzy in a hot seat if he ever decides to show up.

Oto - You're talking a lot lot lot about wagoning but not so much about a case. I get that Maziek might rub you the wrong way but does that make him scum? Also, while I appreciate your vote of confidence that I'm town - that isn't an excuse. When you vote, it's for reasons you need to be held to. Anyway, what I want most from you is to see a real case against Maziek other than that he's gunning for you and Verydark.

Verydark - Saying "I'm totally down to wagon :name:" is.... Err... Bad. Make a case against that person to convince others to vote for them. You don't tell them to make a case so that you can jump on that wagon. It doesn't work that way. Your actions are turning from nooby to scummy pretty quickly in my eyes.
As far as "mine" and Oto's putting Dark to L-1, that wasn't the exact same because of two reasons. A) It's later on in the day. B) Dark didn't even say he was sorry for being inactive. Hell, it didn't even seem like he was. He just sort of said "Qq not interested" Eff that shiz. At that time, we don't really know if he's just going to be prod dodging are what, but we DID know that Illmatic was either going to post or be replaced. Additionally, I wasn't the one that put him at L-1 so you threw me in the L-1 slot as though we could just ignore Oto. Not liking this... That said, I don't really think I need an ISO to say why I think you're scummy. I think at this point you're just trying to blend in. You're looking for every avenue to cause trouble. And should you flip scum, I'd opt for Oto as your top scummate.

Vote: Verydark

Maziek,

Bulvious · Post Post #203 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:05 am

Ooops, ended that wrong, meant to say... Maziek, does that answer you a little bit?

Hopa, what do you have to say about the Isa-Green exchange?

Otolia · Post Post #204 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:11 am

Argh, I hate when I am slacking off and it backfires so badly in my face. ><

Alright since I am unmasked for being so lazy, I have to show my wall abilities off. I'll grab something to eat and maybe post in another thread beforehand but you can expect a post of mine in the next 3 hours.

Maziek · Post Post #205 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:16 am

Bulvios is there supposed to be more stuff there?

You... read me correctly lol. I respond to things when they happen, and thats that. I do laugh at a wagon if it has those people on it simply because I thought that 3/4 of those were scummy when I posted it. If someone posts a legit attack against me, I will defend myself. I have yet to see one that I haven't defended against. If I missed one, please point it out.

Liking your defense and your @Oto/Verydark statements are amazing.

And... you totally took my statement as to why I asked them for eachothers reads. -.-'

Okay, so I think Verydark and Otolia are scum buddies based on one another's scum flip. Here's why.

1: Looking back through Otolia's posts, he simply doesn't talk about Verydark at all. I looked through all of his posts, and he doesn't even mention the player past RVS stage (before the Illmatic votes started piling on). It left me a bad feeling. I didn't look at the opposite point of view yet, but I DO know that I have yet to see a legit read from Verydark on Otolia until I was asked for it.

2: Verydark pushing the blame for the L-1 vote onto Bulvious instead of Otolia where it belonged right off the bat. Verydark was looked at badly for putting Illmatic at L-1, but when Otolia put Dark at L-1, instead of looking at Otolia straight away like he should have based on how he was defending his L-1 vote and how it was just pressure, he turns to Bulvious, the L-3 vote, instead. Note that this can not be a noobie mistake. The noobie move would have been to look at Otolia without looking at the details, since if that was the case, then Verdark would have been looking at the person that did the exact same thing he did (put the person at L-1). However, he didn't do this. Because of that, I feel that information as to where he should be voting and stuff is being spoon-fed to him.

3: His stance on Otolia. It looked like he didn't want to give a legit read on him, and was defending him already through a simple stance. He never stated if he thought Otolia was town or scum.

1 by 1, it doesn't look that bad. All 3 together and holy **** you have something.

Maziek · Post Post #206 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:21 am

I read the defense sentence wrong.

If I were to be wagon'd, I would definitely defend against the specific attacks and not against the wagon as a whole, simply because it's better to break down something one by one than to take at it as a whole, and it leads to more accurate reads. For example, when I defended against Verydark, even though it was small, it was still obvious what I was trying to get across. That's what I would do against a wagon for each player on it. If they don't define why I'm scummy, though, then I simply don't bother with them, because they're scummy and a waste of time for not explaining why they're on a wagon or how the person they're voting is suspicious.

verydark · Post Post #207 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:21 am

Seriously, the blame DOES go to Bulvious, because he ASKED for more votes, knowing the next one would be L-1...as seen here

Bulvious wrote:I want more votes on Creed because he's either going to play with us or he's not. I'm unbelievably tired of lurking and I look forward to the day when I get a game where there is none.

And then the VERY next post was Otolia

Otolia wrote:As you wish Bulvious : VOTE: Drak_Creed

So, yeah, that's not me being stupid or a noob- that's exactly what happened.

Maziek · Post Post #208 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:23 am

EBWOP:

in the "1" paragraph:

"until I (-was) asked for it"

Maziek · Post Post #209 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:24 am

Verydark that is Verywrong.

He asked for it, yes, but he wasn't the one to take action. The blame is Otolia's, since he was the person to take action and vote him to an L-1 spot.

verydark · Post Post #210 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:27 am

EBWODP

And I find it scummy that you would ask someone else to put him at L-1. Then you use that as your defense "Well I didn't cast the L-1 vote!", by wording it "votes", if someone wasn't paying attention you could have gotten 2 votes rapid fire, and then Dark would have been hammered. That, to me is more scummy then me putting pressure on Ill- clearly stating what I was doing.

Isa · Post Post #211 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:31 am

I must admit that I am getting swayed towards Verydark. Maziek and Bulvious make some very legit points, especially the post by Maziek listing three points towards Otolia/Verydark seems decent. I've pointed out his L-1 vote frequently so this might be repetitive, but I'm pointing it out again to show that I've been thinking about him earlier as well, and isn't jumping on the bandwagon out of nowhere. Previously, I had a "very confused newb"-read on him but it's starting to get a bit extreme.

I am still not letting Green go completely, but my case is weakened against him, because he hasn't slipped up since earlier (I still think he has a really poor reason for his vote on me though). I'm conservative with L-2 and L-1, so I'll UNVOTE: Greenealogist and

FoS: Verydark

. I may very well cast my vote on him if nothing else of matter arrives.

I'm also not convinced of Otolia's guilt just yet. Time will tell (looking forward to those walls).

Otolia · Post Post #212 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:49 am

First of all, I'd like to remind you all that I was on LA the last few days. I took on myself to keep posting because in this newbie games, it's so easy to lose momentum. Sure it's not an excuse for putting anyone at L-1 but when Bulvious said the wagon needed more people, I thought it was L-2. I didn't look it up and I apologize but now that I switched my vote, I have no reasons to unvote until Yonzi can provide something valuable to the town. And no I won't back down just because a little someone is making a fuss about it.

Otolia [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3095714#p3095714]#22[/url] wrote:I'm also declaring LA until early monday. If you have questions, please make sure I can clearly see them.

---

I'll cover now the last few posts :

Spoiler: Hopa's post

}|{opa wrote:
Otolia wrote:I don't read the thread carefully right now. I am merely answering immediate questions and issuing comments when I'm home.
Now if you want my vote to start a wagon on Dark, tell me and I'll change my vote at the condition that the next target for wagonning will be Maziek.

I.e. answer questions:
1) next target for wagonning = next day, after Dark_Creed's/replacement's lynch or today?
2) If you do not read carefully and playing "follow the main town read" (as I see this) why do you so inclined towards voting Maziek?

1) Next target for wagonning either in D2 if Yonzi is lynched or in d1 if the wagon is disbanded.
2) Abrasive people annoys me, plus I can't get a good feeling on him. I am not saying I want him lynched just I want people to look at his ISO and start thinking upon what he does.

}|{opa wrote:
Otolia wrote:Now I'd like to see how Maziek answer under pressure. His low number of post combined with his comments posts just aren't enough for me to get a good reads. His attacks on me were weak.

May I ask what are you expecting from Maziek?
He was under pressure once and provided some posts already.

I don't know what to expect. But a better read on him would be a good start. And I checked the votecounts again, Maziek wasn't wagonned at all since the beginning of the game

}|{opa wrote:
Otolia wrote:However I shall bring to the attention of the town that Maziek has become more aggressive towards me since I stated I would wagon him. For me, it's something that deserve a wagon and more pressure, so after Yonzi's case is closed, I suggest him as the next wagon.

Do you expect him not to suspect you for your statement?
Did you seen someone who did such kind of planned wagoning in other games?
Or do you invent it by yourself?

* Whether or not he wants to suspect him is up to him. Shall I grant him town points for that ? I'm not sure but I guess you could.
* I don't remember seeing such thing but it doesn't mean nobody does it nor that it's bad. (I am really annoyed about how people are getting so worked up for things that are mostly relevant to my playstyle)
* I am not as cocky as to pretend I am reinventing Mafia, but I am doing it in other games as well. It's up to you to check up.

Spoiler: Maziek's 1st post

Maziek wrote:That's what I'm saying. You don't think he's scummy. You're voting him because of someone elses read. That is scummy. A vote is supposed to be used to pressure someone or to lynch someone that you think is scummy. You're doing the opposite of that and you're using your vote based on what someone else thinks. I don't need to find a "loophole" to call what you're doing scummy. "no reasons to unvote" someone that you don't think is scummy. Not using your vote for your own thoughts is very anti-town and its what loses town multiple games to scum factions.

You are consistently confusing what is not pro-town with what is scummy. And if you were reading as carefully as you think I should, you would have noticed that Hopa said I had no reasons to unvote. So don't get on your high horse.

Maziek wrote:If you want to play that card, town, notice that he said he would start a wagon on me only after I stated that what he was doing was scummy(One of the reasons being that my attacks on him were "weak"). Before that, he didn't have a care in the world about voting me in any way, shape, or form. He's using it as a form of OMGUS (oh my gosh you suck). http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... d_You_Suck is a link to what it means if anyone is curious.

How long have you played mafia ? If you come to my attention by attacking me, then why shouldn't I do the same ? Oh that's right because you are SO smart and I am obviously wrong. You may want to know that wagonning is a pro-town attitude. However I concede that I was careless when I voted Dark_Creed, but that was not intentional. However you are the one who started making a fuss about this shit whereas I just wanted to see how you would have react if people wagonned you. So who is doing OMGUS now ? And please note that you look like a tryhard when you quote the wiki, as if it wasn't common knowledge.

Maziek wrote:OMGUS actually describes what Verydark is doing as well. He has yet to state any reasons as to why I'm scum, but still wants me lynched. He's also ignoring me, which shows that he doesn't care what I have to say for my slot. Another anti-town move right there.

You are so full of yourself

. Though you are right on this one, but ONLY after he voted for you.

Maziek wrote:Looking at it now, you could probably get a wagon on me. You, Verydark, Isa(if he still thinks I'm suspicious), Bulvious, and for the hammer probably Yonzy. Possibly Illmatic but I doubt it. If that's the case, I could care less about a wagon on me. Can't wait for you to get it started.

Otolia, give us your thoughts on Verydark. Verydark, do the same for Otolia. Refusal to do so may result in consequences later in the game!

Your pretentious attitude is really really annoying me, who do you think you are to threaten people like this ? Can't you just ask nicely to give reads on one another. Reading your ISO makes me wanna smash your head with a bat. You are one of these people who thinks everyone owe them and they should bask in their presence. I, however, am the type of guy who overreacts to this kind of thing and seeing how bad it ended for me the last time I got into a argument with someone like you, I will ask for a replacement if you keep heading in that direction.

So either you ask nicely or you won't have these reads on verydark, I am not your dog and seeing how you behave I won't be your friend either.

Spoiler: verydark's post

Spoiler: Maziek's 2nd post

Maziek wrote:1: Looking back through Otolia's posts, he simply doesn't talk about Verydark at all. I looked through all of his posts, and he doesn't even mention the player past RVS stage (before the Illmatic votes started piling on). It left me a bad feeling. I didn't look at the opposite point of view yet, but I DO know that I have yet to see a legit read from Verydark on Otolia until I was asked for it.

2: Verydark pushing the blame for the L-1 vote onto Bulvious instead of Otolia where it belonged right off the bat. Verydark was looked at badly for putting Illmatic at L-1, but when Otolia put Dark at L-1, instead of looking at Otolia straight away like he should have based on how he was defending his L-1 vote and how it was just pressure, he turns to Bulvious, the L-3 vote, instead. Note that this can not be a noobie mistake. The noobie move would have been to look at Otolia without looking at the details, since if that was the case, then Verdark would have been looking at the person that did the exact same thing he did (put the person at L-1). However, he didn't do this. Because of that, I feel that information as to where he should be voting and stuff is being spoon-fed to him.

3: His stance on Otolia. It looked like he didn't want to give a legit read on him, and was defending him already through a simple stance. He never stated if he thought Otolia was town or scum.

So I am scum alone or I am scum because of verydark ? Two of these things are related to verydark and not to me. You are building castles on the assumption that he is scum and without hearing my and his versions. You are doing all the side of the tribunal and I don't like it. Right now you are getting on a spree and you could well be trying to deflect the attention from Yonzi who has just getting replaced.

1. I didn't talk much about Hopa, not much about Green and only a few about Isa. So what ? It's still early in the game and I am not the kind of guy that thinks he is THE ONE, I take infos as they come and try to work with them but I don't make assumptions and shotgun in the assembly like you like to do.

Spoiler: Bulvious' post

PS : If you keep asking yourself why I am ignoring verydark here, it's because if I was to explain his ISO (I did), I would have to give my reads on him.

Tasky · Post Post #213 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:40 am

VOTECOUNT 1.11

Yonzy (2/5): illmatic, Otolia
verydark (2/5): Maziek, Bulvious
illmatic (1/5): Yonzy
Isa (1/5): Greenealogist
Maziek (1/5): verydark

Not Voting (2): }|{opa, Isa

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline for D1 is 17.06.2011, 13:00 CET.

Maziek · Post Post #214 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:52 pm

Otolia wrote:

Spoiler: Maziek's 1st post
Maziek wrote:That's what I'm saying. You don't think he's scummy. You're voting him because of someone elses read. That is scummy. A vote is supposed to be used to pressure someone or to lynch someone that you think is scummy. You're doing the opposite of that and you're using your vote based on what someone else thinks. I don't need to find a "loophole" to call what you're doing scummy. "no reasons to unvote" someone that you don't think is scummy. Not using your vote for your own thoughts is very anti-town and its what loses town multiple games to scum factions.

You are consistently confusing what is not pro-town with what is scummy. And if you were reading as carefully as you think I should, you would have noticed that Hopa said I had no reasons to unvote. So don't get on your high horse.

His post was made at 3:03. Mine was made at 3:04. Do you think I posted that much after reading his? Use common sense here. Him saying that doesn't change my thoughts or anything either. What you're doing is scummy, not "not pro-town". Using someones thoughts that aren't your own and voting someone with them is not "not pro-town". Its scummy.

Maziek wrote:If you want to play that card, town, notice that he said he would start a wagon on me only after I stated that what he was doing was scummy(One of the reasons being that my attacks on him were "weak"). Before that, he didn't have a care in the world about voting me in any way, shape, or form. He's using it as a form of OMGUS (oh my gosh you suck). http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... d_You_Suck is a link to what it means if anyone is curious.

How long have you played mafia ? If you come to my attention by attacking me, then why shouldn't I do the same ? Oh that's right because you are SO smart and I am obviously wrong. You may want to know that wagonning is a pro-town attitude. However I concede that I was careless when I voted Dark_Creed, but that was not intentional. However you are the one who started making a fuss about this shit whereas I just wanted to see how you would have react if people wagonned you. So who is doing OMGUS now ? And please note that you look like a tryhard when you quote the wiki, as if it wasn't common knowledge.

I've played enough with good enough people to know that wagons are not that good for town. WAIT

WAAAAAIT

Are you calling me a try-hard for posting what an acronym means... IN A NEWBIE GAME? You're joking right? Am I supposed to assume that everyone knows that acronym in a NEWBIE GAME? You're the fucking SE for crying out loud and you're saying this. Whaaaat. Thats a dick move really.

Okay, back to my responses. Lol excuses. Whatever if Bulvious gets a free pass, then you do too since it'd be unfair to call you out for it. >.>

What? Seriously, what? I called you scummy, then you voted me and said you were going to start a wagon on me. I said I'd love to see you do it. How is that OMGUS on my part? Read above for response to last sentence.

Maziek wrote:OMGUS actually describes what Verydark is doing as well. He has yet to state any reasons as to why I'm scum, but still wants me lynched. He's also ignoring me, which shows that he doesn't care what I have to say for my slot. Another anti-town move right there.

You are so full of yourself :neutral: . Though you are right on this one, but ONLY after he voted for you.

Speaking of looking like a tryhard

He's been that way the whole game ever since I voted him. He didn't change until his first post on page 8 (20 posts per page).

Maziek wrote:Looking at it now, you could probably get a wagon on me. You, Verydark, Isa(if he still thinks I'm suspicious), Bulvious, and for the hammer probably Yonzy. Possibly Illmatic but I doubt it. If that's the case, I could care less about a wagon on me. Can't wait for you to get it started.

Otolia, give us your thoughts on Verydark. Verydark, do the same for Otolia. Refusal to do so may result in consequences later in the game!

Your pretentious attitude is really really annoying me, who do you think you are to threaten people like this ? Can't you just ask nicely to give reads on one another. Reading your ISO makes me wanna smash your head with a bat. You are one of these people who thinks everyone owe them and they should bask in their presence. I, however, am the type of guy who overreacts to this kind of thing and seeing how bad it ended for me the last time I got into a argument with someone like you, I will ask for a replacement if you keep heading in that direction.

So either you ask nicely or you won't have these reads on verydark, I am not your dog and seeing how you behave I won't be your friend either.

Okay, I'll admit, I felt like a douche bag when I typed it, but considering that Me and You/Very have been arguing and debating for this whole time, I figured that I would need a little power behind my words. Sorry, that is my fault. However, I refuse to change my attitude or play style this game. Whenever I do, it ALWAYS ends up people thinking I'm scummy because I "become more nice" or "become a dick". Sorry to disappoint you.

The "consequences" I was talking about have already been shared in the public (My thoughts on you and Verydark being scum buddies), so I'm not going to ask twice. Feel free to share or feel free not to. Either one won't change my thoughts on you or him.

Spoiler: Maziek's 2nd post
Maziek wrote:1: Looking back through Otolia's posts, he simply doesn't talk about Verydark at all. I looked through all of his posts, and he doesn't even mention the player past RVS stage (before the Illmatic votes started piling on). It left me a bad feeling. I didn't look at the opposite point of view yet, but I DO know that I have yet to see a legit read from Verydark on Otolia until I was asked for it.

2: Verydark pushing the blame for the L-1 vote onto Bulvious instead of Otolia where it belonged right off the bat. Verydark was looked at badly for putting Illmatic at L-1, but when Otolia put Dark at L-1, instead of looking at Otolia straight away like he should have based on how he was defending his L-1 vote and how it was just pressure, he turns to Bulvious, the L-3 vote, instead. Note that this can not be a noobie mistake. The noobie move would have been to look at Otolia without looking at the details, since if that was the case, then Verdark would have been looking at the person that did the exact same thing he did (put the person at L-1). However, he didn't do this. Because of that, I feel that information as to where he should be voting and stuff is being spoon-fed to him.

3: His stance on Otolia. It looked like he didn't want to give a legit read on him, and was defending him already through a simple stance. He never stated if he thought Otolia was town or scum.

So I am scum alone or I am scum because of verydark ? Two of these things are related to verydark and not to me. You are building castles on the assumption that he is scum and without hearing my and his versions. You are doing all the side of the tribunal and I don't like it. Right now you are getting on a spree and you could well be trying to deflect the attention from Yonzi who has just getting replaced.

1. I didn't talk much about Hopa, not much about Green and only a few about Isa. So what ? It's still early in the game and I am not the kind of guy that thinks he is THE ONE, I take infos as they come and try to work with them but I don't make assumptions and shotgun in the assembly like you like to do.

I'm not going to put you as town if Verydark flips town, but it will make my read weaker, yes. I was basing it around the newer player more because, dun dun dun, they make more mistakes! Of course I'm building castles on the assumption that hes scum. It's because I'm confident that he is! Are you saying that I shouldn't try to find connections between my scum reads? Because I'm going to do that no matter how much you hate it.

When you're looking at connections between two players, you have to realize that its a double sided thing. I looked at both sides, realizing that you didn't talk about Verydark at all PLUS Verydark avoiding to pressure you for putting him at L-1 until someone mentioned it PLUS Verydark having a really suspicious stance on you. When you add those three together, it adds up to you two being a scum team based on one another's scum flip.

You also seem to assume that I think I'll always be right. No one is. If I'm wrong with my read, I'll deal with the BS, read through the topic through the night(specifically stuff I may have been away for during the day), and find another person that looks scummy. I doubt I'm wrong with Verydark and you, though.

PS : If you keep asking yourself why I am ignoring verydark here, it's because if I was to explain his ISO (I did), I would have to give my reads on him.

Whats next?

Maziek · Post Post #215 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:59 pm

Missed a part.

Response to:

"If you come to my attention by attacking me, then why shouldn't I do the same?"

You didn't even attack me except saying that I'm inactive and my posts are weak(if you consider that attacks), and you didn't defend against or bother mentioning what I said against you. Normally when someone attacks you, you tell them why they're wrong aka defend yourself. You didn't even bother doing it.

Maziek · Post Post #216 (ISO) » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:00 pm

EBWOP:

"Page 8 (20 posts per page)" is supposed to be "Page 9 (20 posts per page)".

Jora · Post Post #217 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:17 am

@ Maziek, what does the abbreviation "VCA" stand for?

@ Bulvious:

what do you have to say about the Isa-Green exchange?

Currently I don't know what to say, but in my notes I have rather trio of players to watch:
{Isa, Dark_Creed, Greenealogist}
Imo Isa vs Greenealogist could be town on town.
Right now, I want to lynch Dark_Creed, but he's gone.

Isa · Post Post #218 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:07 am

Illmatic hasn't been seen in 2½ days, and Yonzy hasn't posted since he became a replacement for DC, which was almost 2 days ago. Just pointing it out, especially Illmatic.

Yonzy · Post Post #219 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:50 am

im here, very sorry. I'll catch up and post again.

Yonzy · Post Post #220 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:30 am

Just a warning..this is my first game..I'd love some tips on scum hunting and what I did wrong etc...
With that said,

Unvote

Vote Greeneaologist

He seems to apologize for anything that makes him sound scum, claiming its a mistake. A lot of his accusations are based on the reasoning: "you sound scum," and he is quick to change is vote on someone as soon as they fight back, even when their argument doesn't really clear them of their accusation(in my opinion). My example of this is Bulvious. He accused Bulvious, then the next posts he stated him as almost a confirmed town. Basically his reads don't make much sense and are mostly consisted of "I don't know what to make you you yet."

Uhh.. that's all I have so far.. I'm going to reread a couple times till I can make a somewhat helpful analysis.

Greenealogist · Post Post #221 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:19 am

Okay Yonzy

He seems to apologize for anything that makes him sound scum, claiming its a mistake.

A lot of things I say probably do sound scummy. I don't intend to make them sound like this, but the general thing is they sound a lot better in my head (happens in real life too).

A lot of his accusations are based on the reasoning: "you sound scum,"

Maybe they are. I can see this could be interpreted as hypocritical.

He accused Bulvious, then the next posts he stated him as almost a confirmed town.

I changed my mind. I am not a decisive person, and if I make a decision I may go back on it. This probably isn't a good defense, but it's the truth.

To everyone: I've not played well. I've floundered and I've made mistakes. I hope to improve my game as it goes on.

Bulvious · Post Post #222 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:17 am

Verydark wrote:
Seriously, the blame DOES go to Bulvious, because he ASKED for more votes, knowing the next one would be L-1...as seen here

What kind of logic is this? "Hey, you should go punch that guy in the face." "... You know what? That seems like a freaking AWESOME idea. *Punches the guy in the face, gets arrested for assault, goes on trial.*" His defense; Well.. someone SAID it was a good idea.

Yup, that guy undoubtedly gets off scott-free.

And I find it scummy that you would ask someone else to put him at L-1. Then you use that as your defense "Well I didn't cast the L-1 vote!", by wording it "votes", if someone wasn't paying attention you could have gotten 2 votes rapid fire, and then Dark would have been hammered. That, to me is more scummy then me putting pressure on Ill- clearly stating what I was doing.

Okay, we'll assume I totally DID mean to put Dark at L-1. The fact that I STILL thought he wouldn't be lynched applies.
IN FACT, Oto KNOWS it's proper to call L-1, and he didn't. That's a HUGE indicator he had SOME scum motivation for approval seeking. He has 462 total posts on this forum, he knows good and well what's proper to do as town.

BUT, let me get this straight.

I put the L-3 vote on someone.
Someone else votes
I answer Oto's question whilst not really paying attention and say yes, we do need more - so he votes.
Dark goes on L-1 without call.

It's Bulvious's fault.

Uh...huh.

I don't think so.

Oto wrote: If you keep asking yourself why I am ignoring verydark here, it's because if I was to explain his ISO (I did), I would have to give my reads on him.

I guess if you're his partner that would be a horrifyingly bad decision, wouldn't it?

(Well aware this is being obtuse)
Additionally, in regards to Maziek not moving his vote - could it be that he likes where it's placed? I don't see how it's hypocritical when he thinks (and at this point,I do too) he has a good reason for it being there. His is because he thinks Very is scum. Yours is because you were too indecisive (or too afraid?, maybe even lazy), or I guess your excuse is that you hate lurkers, hence why you wanted Dark, and now Yonzy. But really? You've stated you dislike Maziek and you think he's scum, why not go with scum over a lurker?
To me, it just seems like a lot of the things you do have an awful lot of scum motivation.

And @Hopa - Totally agree, it seems pretty town on town to me as well.

Erm, but I don't agree that your vote isn't placed ANYWHERE, yours nor Isa's. That's badbad when that's your strongest tool in the game of Mafia (assuming you are vanilla, which I guess it's a 50/50 swing from my angle)

Otolia · Post Post #223 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:46 am

Bulvious wrote:Okay, we'll assume I totally DID mean to put Dark at L-1. The fact that I STILL thought he wouldn't be lynched applies.
IN FACT, Oto KNOWS it's proper to call L-1, and he didn't. That's a HUGE indicator he had SOME scum motivation for approval seeking. He has 462 total posts on this forum, he knows good and well what's proper to do as town.

The fact that I didn't called the L-1 should speak in my favor if we follow your reasoning. If I were looking for town approval, calling L-1 would have been the best way to do it. But I didn't, it was my mistake and I apologize for it. Now Yonzi wasn't quicklynch so it didn't hurt the town and that's a relief.

Bulvious wrote:I guess if you're his partner that would be a horrifyingly bad decision, wouldn't it? (Well aware this is being obtuse)
Additionally, in regards to Maziek not moving his vote - could it be that he likes where it's placed? I don't see how it's hypocritical when he thinks (and at this point,I do too) he has a good reason for it being there. His is because he thinks Very is scum. Yours is because you were too indecisive (or too afraid?, maybe even lazy), or I guess your excuse is that you hate lurkers, hence why you wanted Dark, and now Yonzy. But really? You've stated you dislike Maziek and you think he's scum, why not go with scum over a lurker?
To me, it just seems like a lot of the things you do have an awful lot of scum motivation.

Of course now Maziek's vote looks good because verydark has happened to be ultranewbie. However what happened during the time when nobody really noticed verydark (including me) ? Well nothing and that's the problem. But I do agree that verydark actions are suspicious. Considering it's a newbie game he is either newbscum or newbtown.

I dislike Maziek but I didn't say I thought he was scum - I did say however that I'd like to see him wagonned and under more pressure. You are over-interpretating things that didn't happen. I already vote him once (before jumping on Dark_Creed) and I probably vote him again. Why not going for possible scums over lurkers ? Because maybe-scums are at least participating in the game. I play to have fun and to win but that's only the second condition, so yeah I favor people who are playing. Plus Yonzi hasn't prove himself yet so one target at a time is a good way not to lose focus and keeps track on what you want to achieve.

@Yonzi

: Can you give your reads on Maziek and verydark please ?

illmatic · Post Post #224 (ISO) » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:49 am

Haven't posted in a while, sorry about that. I am reading and working on a post that I'll post before the end of today
For now,

Unvote