Mini 1185 - Artemis Fowl Mafia Game Over

[kiwieagle]

Imagine a series of questions like this:

1. Are you a cop?
2. If so, whom did you investigate last night?
3. If not, who do you think is the cop?

Now imagine the answers are:

1. Yes
2. [some player]
3. No answer

Would you then criticize the guy for not answering question 3?

I hope not. I hope I don't have to explain such basic things to you! I think I might! It might be one of those games!

Once again, I wasn't criticizing you for not answering. I was criticizing you for the exact opposite. For answering with some thing irrelevant and dumb.

And yes DeathNote is right.

[DeathNote]

What you guys are talking about really doesn't pertain to anything nor does it give anyone real reads.

Noted. You don't want people posting content.

You can shove that noted up your ass cause that is not what i said at all. The arguement does not help anyone get any readable content into this game.

[Acosmist]

What you guys are talking about really doesn't pertain to anything nor does it give anyone real reads.

Noted. You don't want people posting content.

You can shove that noted up your ass cause that is not what i said at all. The arguement does not help anyone get any readable content into this game.

How on earth do you know that?

unvote, Vote: DeathNote

[Acosmist]

Your ISO is the worst thing I have seen since Unkept Irishmen in Final Fantasy.

[DeathNote]

How do i know what? That your whining about useless crap? Cause that is all you have been doing all game and it isn't indicative of scum or town. Play the game right please.

[Acosmist]

Voting scum seems to be the right way to play this game.

[kiwieagle]

Once again, I wasn't criticizing you for not answering. I was criticizing you for the exact opposite. For answering with some thing irrelevant and dumb.

And yes DeathNote is

right.

sorta right

How to say this.....


I feel that everything pertains to a mafia game, no matter whats the conversation. And any type of conversation brings reads.

What I agree on,
is that me and aco should stop bickering.

[bobsnox]

Ok I promised I would put more effort into this game and I am making good as of right now.

ISOs on everyone, tl;dr at the bottom

:

Acosmist

- I have a hard time telling when this guy is scum. I've played several games with him on another site where he is treated like a Mafia Deity. If he's alive after two or three days we generally assume he's scum and lynch him <_<. That said, I've never played a game with him here, so it will be even more of a challenge to read him. Right now his ISO has tons of witty semi-troll/semi-protown remarks. I would have to say I agree with all of his shots, although I'm not sure if his Ellibereth case was serious. I like his latest post (#114), probably because something has been setting me off about Kwanton.

Leaning town

AlmasterGM

- first several posts concentrate on MPR. I'm a big fan of getting out of RVS asap, so I can appreciate his ratiocination behind his first vote. Everything I'm seeing in his ISO is protown. Obviously scum try to seem protown, but I don't notice anything suspicious in his posts. The only blip was what kiwieagle pointed out about the inconsistency of his argument against MPR, but I think AGM handled it in a protown manner--conceding the point and continuing the scumhunt.

I like his point against Sleepy. I'll be keeping it in mind when I get to his ISO.

Town

DeathNote

- not good. 3 posts: one is RVS, one is "I'm confused," and one is "lol I'm not good town." I would say leaning scum but I need to see more from him before I upgrade or downgrade that status.

Leaning scum

Ellibereth

- hard to read. First three posts were unjustified votes. I can live with one or two RVS votes, but three in a row with no justification? He later comments on his vollkan vote, but all he has is:

But seriously, volkan, first question post 39, something feels disingenuous and off mhmhm.

Scumvibes are sometimes the best factors for a scumlynch, but that case seems really weak PLUS there was an established case on vollkan already. One which Ellibereth ignored, apparently.

Response to Acosmist seems intentionally plain.

Scum avoiding spotlight.

Scum

Katsuki

- it's difficult to analyze what she's saying other than that she thinks vollkan is scum and that the vollkan wagon is full of town. I'm not sure how seriously to take her though. Her statements have that "you should just agree with what I'm saying" feel, but that's normally something I read from strong townies.

Town

kiwieagle

- his analysis, particularly in his 2nd and 5th posts, have a solid town feel to them. Seems like genuine scumhunting.

Town

LLD

- the only game I've played with her, she was scum and twisted my words to get me lynched. This doesn't look like that LLD. I like her questions to AGM regarding vollkan. Seems like critical thinking. I also like her kwanton vote.

Town

Leiskyrie

- not enough to get a solid read on yet. Good question to me though in #82.

Leaning town

MPR

- I thought AGM's case against him was pretty good (and pretty cool), but having ISOed MPR, I don't find his posts scummy. His defense was not panicky or overly defensive. I like several parts of #69 in particular.

Town

Sleepy

- do not like his 1st, 2nd, or 10th posts in particular. MPR's response to his 2nd post is good. His "I'm off to tunnel someone else" in 108 is just bad. And he picked me because I'm not taking this game seriously? That's not the case AND he knows I was heavily involved in another game recently. I spent several hours making a wall post in another game we're both in; it's not that I'm not taking this one seriously but that I just wasn't paying enough attention. Big difference.

Scum

vollkan

- I like his defense and he is right: no one really offered a good argument against his defense. I'm sorry I considered hammering without doing this. His ISO doesn't make him town but his reactions to all the pressure make him lean town for me. I like his points against Krew. If Krew flips scum, then I'd have to say vollkan is town at that point.

Leaning town

Summary of reads

:

Acosmist

- leaning town

AGM

- town

DeathNote

- leaning scum

Ellibereth

- scum

Katsuki

- town

kiwieagle

- town

LLD

- town

Leiskyrie

- leaning town

MPR

- town

Sleepy

- scum

vollkan

- leaning town

PEDIT: ok several people posted while I was working on this. I will update as needed.

[bobsnox]

Ok so now to decide between Sleepy, Ellibereth, and DeathNote. This recent Acosmist-DeathNote exchange looks interesting...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No comment on Kwanton, despite "liking my kwanton vote"?

Hmmmm

[kiwieagle]

UNVOTE: volkan
Well, I guss it's time for him to claim... already? L-2 now, with my vote in essence on him.

Krew+7

,

Unvote, Vote: Krew

Let me very clear as to why, so that I don't get howls of "OMGUS" from the more lobotomised of you. Aside from ignoring my response he proceeds to push the wagon beyond the point of no return by demanding a claim. If he was town genuinely trying to ascertain my alignment, I would have expected a response ordinarily, but especially given that he was trying to force a claim. Coupled with the fact that he initially voted me for random reasons, then slides in the seriousness afterwards, I think it merits 7 points. Joining a wagon for random reasons, then adding on some weak serious reasons and, of all things, UNVOTING before demanding a claim reeks of trying to slip in under the radar.

Does that look like a demand? That is me being unsure. I was surprised that you got to L-1 so quickly, hence the "already...?" and was asking if it was too early for a claim.
Also, I don't understand how much more clear I can be. My vote on you WAS. NOT. RANDOM.
I also unvoted so as to prevent a quicklynch. Would you like my vote to go back on you?

The point thats its not random. MAKES IT WORSE. its a horrible vote.
You just hoped on a freakin wagon with NO REASON.
And why do you even threaten him about voting on him?




@bobsnox.
I like the change (from not paying attention, to paying attention)
I hope that atleast by halfway the game im able to make good ISOs like that (This is my 2nd game, bare with me).

[bobsnox]

No comment on Kwanton, despite "liking my kwanton vote"?

Hmmmm

I didn't even ISO him haha. I thought I had another scumread when I did the summary...

brb

[bobsnox]

Kwanton

- goes from this

vote kwanton

to this

Ellibereth is avoiding me on purpose, confirm vote, time to win this game singlehandedly.

unvote vote ellibereth

?

in 4 min. Explanation? None. And what's with the ? at the end of the Ellibereth vote? "Oh you have a good read on Ellibereth? Mind if I ride your coattails?" Seems like the vollkan-AGM thing but scummier.

I don't get this:

That being said AGM's case on MPR, although logical, is still pretty weak and I have no reason to suspect MPR either.

So it's a good case because it's logical, but it's not enough to vote MPR because you don't have a reason? Is the fact that it's logical not a reason?

I like the Sleepy vote but then he goes:

hm dunno what to think about sleepy backing off but

unvote

for now.

thats really the only big thing i've seen so far. both cases against MPR and Vollkan were weak to begin with and both their defenses make sense. Agree that acomist is just trolling at this point. But troll doesnt equal scum.

inb4Kwanton-SK. "I don't have any strong reads so I'll just chill over here." The lack of aggression smacks of scum. Giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, etc.

SK or Mafia who doesn't want to push too hard in case it comes back to bite him. Combined with what I noted earlier in my ISOs:

Scum

UPDATED Summary of reads

:

Acosmist

- leaning town

AGM

- town

DeathNote

- leaning scum

Ellibereth

- scum

Katsuki

- town

kiwieagle

- town

kwanton

- scum

LLD

- town

Leiskyrie

- leaning town

MPR

- town

Sleepy

- scum

vollkan

- leaning town

[Ellibereth]

Competing wagons make me happy.
Taking quick note of the little bird next to my year that's saying that Volkan's an early scum bus wagon.
But I don't know why. hmmmhamma.
Death, what do you think about anything. Alignment-wise. Reasons not necessary.
Sleepy buzzed a towntell earlier so I not really feeling that. Bob's town...

HEY KATSU DARLING, I FORGOT YOUR SCUM META. REFRESHER PLZ?

[Ellibereth]

I can live with one or two RVS votes, but three in a row with no justification?

What's the problem with that?

Wasn't a case for a lynch.
and I didn't think much of the "established case" on volkan.
response to Acos WAS intentionally plain.

[Katsuki]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=15054

You have the QT in your role PM somewhere.

I'll read through things when I get back tonight.

[vollkan]

We've driven this shenanigan far enough.

Unvote; Vote: Kwanton

Reason?

--
Acosmist v DeathNote just reads like a reasonable response from DeathNote to trolling. Null alignment-wise for both of them.

[Acosmist]

We've driven this shenanigan far enough.

Unvote; Vote: Kwanton

Reason?

--
Acosmist v DeathNote just reads like a reasonable response from DeathNote to trolling. Null alignment-wise for both of them.

Wave your hands! Dismiss it! It's just trolling!

"If I keep saying that, the bad man will go away and I won't have to answer the laundry list of questions I left hanging!"

Observant people: note the contradiction between this latest post and one further back. You'll see the one.

[Acosmist]

What you guys are talking about really doesn't pertain to anything nor does it give anyone real reads.

Noted. You don't want people posting content.

You can shove that noted up your ass cause that is not what i said at all.

"reasonable"

yep that's the first word that comes to mind

"reasonable"

[vollkan]

We've driven this shenanigan far enough.

Unvote; Vote: Kwanton

Reason?

--
Acosmist v DeathNote just reads like a reasonable response from DeathNote to trolling. Null alignment-wise for both of them.

Wave your hands! Dismiss it! It's just trolling!

"If I keep saying that, the bad man will go away and I won't have to answer the laundry list of questions I left hanging!"

Pretty sure I answered every question you have asked me.

Observant people: note the contradiction between this latest post and one further back. You'll see the one.

*gasp* In a previous post I called it "quasi-trolling" and now I am calling it "trolling". I can see why people think you're a god at this game - you get right to the core issues

You can shove that noted up your ass cause that is not what i said at all.

"reasonable"

yep that's the first word that comes to mind

"reasonable"

Then we agree

[Acosmist]

Pretty sure I answered every question you have asked me.

Will I vig you at night for being scum?

you also didn't answer my last question ;_;

*gasp* In a previous post I called it "quasi-trolling" and now I am calling it "trolling".

No, I was talking about the magical -5 that I got somewhere along the line...but ok, Mr Guilty Conscience!

I can see why people think you're a god at this game - you get right to the core issues

What people?

Hey look at you, waving your hands some mooooar

Then we agree

unvote, vote: vollkan

[Acosmist]

You outright did not answer one question, even after being reminded, and your answer to another was more fallacious than a DNC talking point, so hey:

this point system you have

What happens when you are scum? Walk me through exactly how you utilize it as scum.

[vollkan]

this point system you have

What happens when you are scum? Walk me through exactly how you utilize it as scum

The major difference comes in at the level of what I choose to treat as scumtells (and what I don't). Most of my scum play revolves around me making arguments which I know I can present plausibly and seemingly logically, but which I personally know to be inaccurate.

On a more minor level, I can sometimes manipulate the points themselves as scum. However, because my system needs to maintain a level of credibility for it to be at all useful for me (as in, if my points are seriously inconsistent within or between games, the system becomes unusable), I have had to greatly limit my ability to do this (in fact, I tend almost always to give points of 5 (minor), 7 (medium) and 10 (serious)). If I want to push a mislynch on somebody, I'll most often do it at the level of the arguments themselves rather than by manipulating the points.

[vollkan]

Will I vig you at night for being scum?

That's the question that you are hand-wringing over me not answering?

No, I was talking about the magical -5 that I got somewhere along the line...but ok, Mr Guilty Conscience!

I explained why you got +5. What is the contradiction?

[DeathNote]

Seriously... is there anyone Aco doesn't argue with?