DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[AurorusVox]

FUCK YEAH

In agreement about not going to Total War just yet. It's clearly there to tempt the standard demolition-happy folks to think with their nukes and not with their brains. Town does not benefit from Total War, however much fun it is.

Third time lucky, here goes...

[AurorusVox]

I still think the info gained from town directed lynches outweighs the reduction in kills from skipping to DEFCON 1.

[AurorusVox]

Goddammit.

If you are being targeted with a nuclear missile, you may post I do not wish to die a painful radioactive death in the thread.

Was this in Defcon 2? If so, did anyone use it? It seems like the wimp's way out.

I think it is more to deal with time sensitive information needing to be out there sooner, than later.
Seems like a TACTFUL and TACTICFUL way out.

What is this? SocioPath, since when would you flee from a nuke?

Make

Love

Lynches, Not (Total) War

[AurorusVox]

Someone fill me in on what the scum draft lists looked like in Defcon 2. Some of the lower half of the ability list were added on since Defcon 1 so I don't know how they affect what scum wanted. Also, good idea to try to steal abilities from them? Y/N?

1. Espeonage
2. Carrier
3. Nuke

1. Battleship
2. Carrier
3. Nuke

1. AirBase
2. Fallout Shelter
3. Nuke

1st: Sub
2nd: Air Base
3rd: Battleship
4th: Fallout Shelter
5th: Silo

1. Radar
2. Airbase
3. Battleship
4. Carrier
5. Bunker
6. Silo

1. Battleship
2. Radar
3. Silo

[AurorusVox]

@Hez; DEFCON 1 was a mini with a SK role. DEFCON 2 had two scum factions but no SK role.

@Hindu; surprisingly, only one scum went for Sub. It seems both scum teams were concerned with getting protective roles, or otherwise townish looking abilities. You may well be able to go for your favoured town abilities whilst keeping high scum priority targets out of their hands.

[AurorusVox]

2. If you're going for troops, I'd advise against a "steal from the scum" mentality. Better to have Espionage than Counter-espionage, better to have Fighters than Air Base.

Problem is, if scum get their hands on Counter Espionage, then Espionage becomes pretty useless, etc. We could do without a uniformity in this area, really.

Regarding Sub: I say we all take a vow of honour and let RedCoyote get it On a more serious note, has anyone considered explicitly advising town against Subs? It's not like town needs to be secret about who they're nuking. I -KNOW- its a very powerful scum role, and this may sound really silly, but it might be best to let the scum have it. What I mean is, if we KNOW scum have got the sub, then we can eventually confirm who they are by making people launch their nukes; if someone launches and we don't see their name attached to the warhead, we know they're holding the secret daykill powar and they're confirmed scum. It could also be useful for rooting out the SK. Thoughts on this?

Scary moment: realising the implications of five scum (as opposed to the traditional DEFCON triple threats) which is going to make scum drafts a lot harder to overcome.

[AurorusVox]

Disagree. Counter-espionage requires you to select a specific person and a specific investigation (cop, rolecop, tracker). Scum having it, even guaranteed, does not make Fighters, Espionage, or Radar useless by any stretch of the imagination.

Ah, yes, you're right there. I thought you could just put something like "Guilty" and be done with it.

Er. Submarine owning player will simply claim to not have a missile silo, because they have some other troops deployment.

Yes, but that only works up to a point. Most of the power owners in the last game were claimed or killed off quite early. If someone lies about their deployment they're GOING to get caught out. But it was a pipe-dream anyway, so yeah, just gogoTown and get the sub.

The wording on the Sub description ("you

may

launch") indicates that it's not compulsory, so we wouldn't catch scum that way anyway.

Of course you don't

have

to launch but what I'm saying is that it is foreseeable that we'll end up in a situation where people will be launching and scum will get backed into a corner and be caught out by not being able to launch but not having a troop deployment either. See above for why I doubt scum can get away with fakeclaiming for long. But anyway, there are plenty of bloodthirsty players who will want anonymity with their mushroom clouds so vOv

[AurorusVox]

AV is scum again.

Probably

ooba has done even less than usual ITT, plus he tried to swing it so that Total War was mathematically better
I have no idea what you're reading in Pooky.
Hinduragi reads as straight-up insincere in all of his posts.
RedCoyote has made one post but he didn't post last weekend either. Swap him out for Mina.
Regfan is scum for saying "we should organize our claims" and then not a thing to help it.
HezLucky, LLD, Moai, and Zhero all need to stand next to a big red X too.

Why am I probably scum again but don't make your list of people that are scummy/need nuking?

---

AV is scum again.

Oh man AV's fighting for that rope though.. fightin HARD

7PAGE SCUMTEAM DECLARATION

Vi
Magua
RC
Zhero
??? MYSTERY PLAYER

(btw that mystery player is HEZZWARRE. This is still page 7 so it counts)

Why don't I make your list either?

---

Also I agree with Inhim's assessment of Vi vs Gama's response to Gorilla. Vi=Scum, Gama=Town.

[AurorusVox]

If you don't want a nuke then you should put every power on your list at some point. This will stop scum being able to soft-organise getting five non-nukes if that's what they're after. What I mean is, if no one bothers putting Counter Intelligence down for example, then scum could put it at like 5th place and still get it. Whereas we want scum to be screwed if they don't get their top choices.

[AurorusVox]

Avox, what are you talking about?

If you don't want a nuke

then you should put every power on your list at some point.

[AurorusVox]

Hmm ok. But there is no reason why anyone should not want a nuke unless they are trading it off for the good-average powers:
Submarine
Air Base
Espionage
Aircraft Carrier
Battleship
Fighter
Radar

I reiterate - choosing Fallout Shelter, Fail Safe, eavesdrop, CI over a Nuke is a sub-optimal and anti-town move for town.

Yes, but I don't see what you're making a fuss out of. I'm not saying put anti-town powers higher than pro-town powers. I'm saying that IF you are choosing a non-nuke, you may as well rank all the others powers on your roster too.

Eavesdrop seemed to be useful for town in DEFCON 2.0 at least. Don't write it completely out, but it takes a certain mindset to be able to crack whatever codes the scum inevitably use.

[AurorusVox]

I'm saying that IF you are choosing a non-nuke, you may as well rank all the others powers on your roster too.

I just disagree with this statement. Starting off with
- I want to be a PR over a nuke
- Hence I will list all PRs in my troop deployment choice
is wrong when Nukes are better than some of the PRs here.

Except in that if you DO NOT WANT A NUKE AT ALL then its better to have THOSE PEOPLE prying coveted powers from the hands of scum (for whom they ARE useful).

Ehh. OTOH I'd accept your POV IF and only IF we tell town that taking these pro-scum powers from scum is a scumclaim in and of itself, and accept no WIFOM from it. But that seems to give scummz a free pass to all try for the sub and take their scum powahs at 2nd choice. Ideally, we'll stop scum getting their second, third, or fourth powers, and push them all the way to the real crap.

---

OUTPLAYED. MY TOWN READ WAS A TRAP AND YOU FELL RIGHT INTO IT.

on a non self amusement note

I don't like this. Was all of what you said about Mina in the rest of this post 4srs or 4lulz?

[AurorusVox]

>_>

Now you're just playing with me. Were the points you raised against her "a fucking joke" or was the comment about being "self-amusement" the joke?

Help me here. Sarcasm detection is not functioning properly right now.

[AurorusVox]

Speaking of AV, he's the lynch for tomorrow as conf. scum.

how so?

Yay I am being policy-lynched. Beware of meta, folks. I'm very vengeful. (This does not apply to the scum on my future wagon -- nor
does this apply if I flip scum -- but any town who policy lynch me beware I WILL get my revenge)

Hate this. Happy to lynch you for being scummy now, kay?

---

Last game, there was a big debate about nuking without discussion beforehand. No one's really mentioned it at all yet. The general ideas last time were:
+ Let people nuke who they want, discussing compromises reads
- Nowaize, must have town consensus, all violators will be nuked
+ Lolrly, you think scum are likely to nuke without discussion more than town?
- Well nuking violators will stop town doing it and thus scum can't lolnuke

Personally, I say fire at will.

---

Fate with the Airbase, why does that sound familiar?
But yes, confirming I won't be putting it at #1. Unkillable Fate is a terrifying prospect but he screams town so.

[AurorusVox]

Why do you need to threaten future vengeance? Why not just play pro-town?

[AurorusVox]

But why would people PL you if you're being pro-town?
Instead of trying to REVENGE PL'ers, prove them wrong by being a good American citizen.
Surely?

[AurorusVox]

I'm not saying wanting to nuke someone is anti-town.

People pushing a PL have to offer something more than just "because" to get you lynched. What I mean is, the whole town won't fall in just because a few people say so.

And I'm saying your attitude towards it - screaming bloody vengeance on anyone who dares vote for you - is scummy. I don't like at all.
Sounds as though you're scum, who's been caught for what you perceive as the "wrong" reasons, and now you're trying to RAGEPOST your way out of it.

[AurorusVox]

Oh, so someone who finds you legitimately scummy is now "first" before people who want to PL you? So here we see how it's not just PL'ers you hate, but ANYONE who questions your commitment to the great American cause. A further reiteration of why I find you scummy.

[AurorusVox]

Will it end better for me or for someone who advocates your policy lynch?

[AurorusVox]

Toog: I resent the implication that I'm a pansy European.

---

To all those declaring AirBase as a #1 target:
SDC is probTown. In DEFCON 2.0 Fate wanted AirBase as his highest priority, and didn't gogo gambitzz for it. He just stayed quiet and plotted for it in the QT. Hence, reading him as town here, hence let him have AirBase.

---

RC: I kept pushing Hez because he was being inconsistent in what he was saying and acting all scummy.

---

SP's posting...not what I'm used to. Not sure what to make of it as he didn't really do much until votes became active in either of the last two DEFCON games, where he was 1x Scum and 1x Town. >_>

---

Oh. Something to watch out for. Don't go declaring who you're going to nuke etc until you do it all bold and official, since doing so effectively narrows the potential PR pool if scum/terrorist go a-huntin N1/N2. It's like claiming vanilla in this game >_>

[AurorusVox]

It's a bad move all around, and for you to defend it so hard makes me nervous about your intentions.

Not really defending it hard, just explaining my thought process as someone who has seen how Fate tried to get it as scum before.

RC: I kept pushing Hez because he was being inconsistent in what he was saying and acting all scummy.

I do not believe you didn't realize what was going on with him. I do not believe you to be that obtuse. Granted, I was looking at it after it happened, but the signs were clearly there. I think you were baiting him, and this doesn't convince me otherwise in the slightest.

Well if you want to call showing him how he's wrong through an example baiting then go ahead.

He said something scummy. I called it scummy.
He turned his "vengeance" on me despite saying it only counted for those trying to PL him.
Which was even scummier. I told him this. He said I would be the "first"
I was like, huh? Not a PL'er?

i.e. you're an inconsistent lying scumbag who's trying to scare people away from voting for you...which is what I'd already said in the first place.

---

Ooba shows RC to be lying + RC "wants" to defend Hindu but consciously leaves it to him. Not liking this.

PEDIT:
RC denies the lie? Don't think so pal. If you meant what you now say you mean, you would have said "You'

re

" not "You'

ll

.
You'll = you will = future = "If you put it at #1"

[AurorusVox]

So. Is the "You'll" typo for "You're"?

[AurorusVox]

Magua, the point was that he didn't want it KNOWN that he wanted Airbase. Also, D2 featured a second scumteam. I can't see why he'd pull this stunt as scum in this game. As SK I can see, but not as Eurotrash.

MoI, I was actually trying to neuter the usefulness of the sub by turning it into a scumclaim. And SDC being unkillable is terrifying regardless of whose side anyone is on >_>

RC, I thought you'd slipped up trying to cover yourself, but I guess that's a reasonable enough explanation of what you meant.

[AurorusVox]

@Magua
We've already established that scum fakeclaiming in this setup is a bad idea. Why would scumSDC fake having Air Base? Whoever had it would just CC them and demand they get lynched or nuked. Even if no one believed them, it would out SDC eventually. I mean, hell, I'll put Airbase at #2 if that's what you're worried about.

@Magna
1. Because then it's caught a certifiable confirmed scum. It sounds counterintuitive, but I think it *could* have worked. I won't be pursuing it now anyway, but I'm just trying to tell you what my thought process was.
2. I know what its for. If they were asking for a power that prevented them getting lynched or nuked, it would be different. Doesn't the fact they're asking for something that defends from NKs make it more likely from town, as it makes no sense for scum to want protection from their own kill? :\

[AurorusVox]

Well, I've already said I could see it from SDC-SK. I don't think I'm being clear enough with my terminology. "Town" in the above should probably read as "non-Euro".

I

don't

see it as a likely Euroscum Gambit because they don't really have the same level of fear from an SK kill. If/When the SK is dead, the Air Base becomes a wasted ability for scum.

[AurorusVox]

Vote: Hinduragi

^RedCoyote disproving Hinduragi vote [/injoke]

Unvote;
Vote: HezLucky

^die scum die

---

I'm of the opinion that at least one of the people jockeying for the ability to lead town is scum.

Yeah? Which one? Care to be a bit less general? This is about as useful as "thar's scum on that thar wagon"

Why pick out LLD? Why not IS/Pooky who have been talking about all the Eurotrash they'll smite without specifics? Selective interrogation?

---

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"Pooky, I am a true American hero and am willing to pledge my nuclear weapons to the destruction of Euro Scum and their Traitor Sympathizer Brethren, You can tell that I am a true American hero because of ___________Fill this in_______________ "

^Anti-town and blatant role-fishing. If you reveal you have a nuke by filling this form in then scummz be knowing who has PRs and whatnot.

[AurorusVox]

Seriously? The mind boggles.

I've come close to revealing whether I was going for Nukes or PRs twice now >_> It's quite easy to let it slip whether you're nuking or not. A couple of other people have already done so. I figure if I keep making the point then people will stop doing it/I'll remember not to myself.

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

But your read is incredibly wrong

Hez, are you only voting for me because I think you're scum? Because I don't recall you mentioning me at all until I said you were scummy.

[AurorusVox]

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

But your read is incredibly wrong

That frownie face is actually making me feel guilty.

I feel like I actually have to waste time on a confirmation biasy case with quotes, and second-guess myself as to whether individual posts sound townish and I'm just imagining the whole "set-up speculation for the sake of talking, fake scumhunting, and useless questions" vibe, rather than coasting on how everyone thinks you're obvscum. Because otherwise, you'll be frowning at me.

No wonder I'm manipulated so easily.

I'm pretty sure scum could just shut up and fly under the radar if they wanted. There's no incentive to talk for the sake of it.
Why is your promised-but-failed attempt at setup breaking any better than my attempt at neutering the usefulness of Sub?

I questioned SJ because they were being (to use SDC's fave word) cheeky. All this "Oh I'm being sarcastic about you Mina" bullshit is cheeky because it's noise that doesn't stick to them. Their flipflopping between "Don't make my points look less than serious!" --> "It was a fucking joke" makes it impossible to pin them on anything they said about you there.

And questioning Hez? Those were not pointless questions.

They weren't baiting either. Hez: You did something scummy. I responded to it. You reacted scummily to that too, and what I did was show you that you were inconsistently applying this supposed "vengeance." Which I'm pretty sure you realised when you admitted you were being illogical. The way you acted and the way you professed to act were completely out of sync, and our back and forth illustrated that perfectly.

[AurorusVox]

Also I agree that Toog is very much Town from his choice + claim.

[AurorusVox]

Um...

Exactly whom are you defending yourself from? The town as a whole? I didn't even mention any of those points. For so early in the day, isn't this is a bit excessive?

I'm just imagining the whole "set-up speculation for the sake of talking, fake scumhunting, and useless questions" vibe

"For the sake of talking"

I'm pretty sure scum could just shut up and fly under the radar if they wanted. There's no incentive to talk for the sake of it.

"Set-up speculation"

Why is your promised-but-failed attempt at setup breaking any better than my attempt at neutering the usefulness of Sub?

"Fake scumhunting, and useless questions"

I questioned SJ because they were being (to use SDC's fave word) cheeky. All this "Oh I'm being sarcastic about you Mina" bullshit is cheeky because it's noise that doesn't stick to them. Their flipflopping between "Don't make my points look less than serious!" --> "It was a fucking joke" makes it impossible to pin them on anything they said about you there.

Actually, now that you bring it up, I hated the sub thing, too. It's not an attempt at neuter the usefulness of Sub, because your plan was actually harmful to the town. (I mean...saying town shouldn't get the sub just so we know whether or not the submarine is definitely in scum hands? Having the sub and USING IT TO SHOOT OBVTOWN WHILE NOT CLAIMING IT is

more

of a scum claim.)

><" No, that wasn't what I was saying at all. I was saying that in my scenario, we WOULD KNOW scum had it, and so when it came to launch-time, anyone who launched a nuke but somehow didn't have their name attached to it, would be caught out. I.e. it would have made it impossible for scum to use the secret aspect of the daykill because to do so WOULD have been a scumclaim.

It's almost so bad that it might be a towntell that you were

brave

enough to say it, but I hate how you backtracked the moment you got heat for it and said, "yeah, I wasn't expecting anyone to take me seriously, because it's just a pipe dream, so go for that submarine, town!").

Because I realised quickly how idealistic it was, and to debate it would have been a waste of time. A good idea in my head, but a bad idea in the thread.

But I didn't even

mention

it in that post. So why are you trying to tie it to me not breaking the set-up?

You mentioned that you thought I was using set-up speculation as an excuse to talk. The Sub is the only real setup spec I've been doing.

For the record, whatever you think of SJ, I can state with 100% certainty that he was not in the slightest attempting to be taken seriously with his "case" on me, if you know anything about Faraday's sense of humour. The "why aren't you taking me seriously" line was also dripping with scorn.

So are you still suspicious of his towntell of you? By making that joke post it totally deflected away from the issue you were trying to raise.

And no incentive for scum to talk? Are you kidding me? Try not posting anything all game and see how long you live in DEFCON 1. That's exactly what scum try to do all the time: look like they're helping the town just to get their approval. Fake contribution is the rare scumtell that actually

works

.

So can you tell me without checking the activity counter who has been lurking through the previous couple of DEFCONs? I can't. In a Large surely it's easiest to attack the more visible people, especially when you could treat DEFCON 5 & 4 like a glorified pre-game stage.

Since lack of posting isn't a scumtell to you, what do you make of Magua saying he'll nuke the person with the lowest postcount?

[AurorusVox]

/fail quote tags.

[AurorusVox]

^that.

Sorry Magua.

[AurorusVox]

That's two things.

[AurorusVox]

This isn't my scum meta in the slightest. Don't know where you got that from Toast.

Reg: So sure I'm scum but where's the vote? Scum.

Vi defended me when I was town and she was scum in txtMafia. But she's like the only person I agree with right now so I don't even know.
SpyreX is town. Ooba is town.

Hez + possibly MoI are the scum pushing my wagon, apparently Katsuki has hidden towntells? Completely don't know why Kat's voting me though.

[AurorusVox]

This isn't my scum meta in the slightest. Don't know where you got that from Toast.

Did you even read the past page and a half? You're scum guilty of skimming.

Please link me to posts where someone has used meta as a reason for finding me scummy.

[AurorusVox]

I quoted your whole post as a response to you, not that specific point.

Okay, you want to talk about the whole post then.
What do you make of Toasty talking about meta when the only player to mention meta has said it's not my scum or my town meta?
What do you make of Reg sounding sure I'm scum but not voting for me?
You don't like my reads I assume.
I've not been skimming. Is that comment something to do with Katsuki?

@Magua: Graded scumlist;

Hez
Regfan

Swift Justice


MoI (possibly)


Vi (potentially, as she's buddied/white knighted me very successfully in the past)

(Waiting on an explanation from Toasty about his latest post too)

[AurorusVox]

Reg: So sure I'm scum but where's the vote? Scum.

I don't vote until I'm completly caught up with the thread. You also realize the contradiction in this post, right? You're attacking me for not placing a vote while claiming me scum and witholding your vote.

Fair enough on wanting to wait, but you could have voted in the meanwhile. Meh. Not so scummy then.

Also it's not a contradiction. I'm voting Hez. Who's scummier than you.

"Why is he scummy?"
Because he's been trying to scare people off his lynch by raging at them. Apparently it would just be for PL'ers. But as soon as I called him scummy on it, he forgot all about PL'ers and went straight for my throat. He isn't being consistent with his words and actions, something I find very very scummy.

[AurorusVox]

@Vi; Plus your most recent post to Mina.

I'm not saying that you're buddying or WK'ing me now, I'm saying that you've done it in the past so I'm wary in case this is the beginnings of the same thing.
Fool me once, etc. You can't tell me I should ignore what happened in txtMafia, surely.

---

@Mina: in SAIII where I was town, I drew a lot of early heat on D1, from Scum SpyreX and SK-hopeful-MoI, in particular. You read me as town then. I'm seeing parallels to that game...but no Mina townread? This upsets me.

Or was it Faraday that read me as town then?

[AurorusVox]

I still don't like you using this as a defense. The incentive for scum to talk is to stay around. This "im not lurking, so im not scum" thing is bad.

I never said "I'm not lurking, so I'm not scum." I'm saying that scum can feasibly just sit on their hands and wait for today to kick it up a notch, if they wanted, and no one would really care all that much. I mean you yourself said that it's difficult building cases during DEFCON 5 and 4. Couldn't scum have said the same and been done with it? I'm not even trying to relate this to me, I'm saying that thinking scum "talk for the sake of talking" is a bad assumption to make in this particular game when we've only just gotten to the voting stages and people have been making it known that they're struggling to do much with what they had. If there's a crowd for scum to try to blend into, why not that one?

Wiki
Take your pick, all my games scum and otherwise are on there.

[AurorusVox]

Is everything I'm saying just digging the hole deeper? Am I really acting that scummy?
I'm asking that honestly because I'm town and if I'm just distracting everyone then I'll just shut up for a day or two so you can all decide who (other than me) you think is scum. I'll take the rope today if needed but first people need to look elsewhere because when I flip town you'll all realise that today has been a waste, since most of the people on my wagon have simply voted and haven't even explained it, so it's not like I (or anyone else) can even do a proper wagon analysis to see who I (etc.) think is scum or town.

@Katsuki, its because he claimed it without prompting. Guess scum could be ballsy with it but why not just not say anything at all?

[AurorusVox]

Magua are you even reading?
I've said that Hez (on my wagon) and Moi (on my wagon) are two scumpicks.
I've also said I'm suspicious of Katsuki but am a little put off by a supposed secret towntell.

I doubt all the scum are on my wagon, and I equally doubt that my whole wagon is scum (certainly true as there are more than five people voting me now I think).

I gather I'm making myself an easy target for scum by doing something wrong, i.e. scum can blend in because I'm a viable wagon due to town misreading me. For the life of me I can't tell you what it is I'm doing, since most people are neglecting to mention anything other than their vote.

---

Hez: thoughts on Magua?

[AurorusVox]

No read yet on Magua, sorry.

Hm. I was under the impression you thought I was scum because I thought you was scum.
Magua also thinks your scum but you're not screaming hot death at him.

You can't blame it on me "baiting" you because you were calling me out straight after my first post about you being scummy - i.e. before we'd even engaged in our back-and-forth.

And if you try to say that me saying I thought you were scummy is "baiting," then I don't even know what to say to you.

---

@Vi;

VOTE: AurorusVox

FOS: Anyone voting for someone other than AurorusVox

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

You'll forgive me if I don't take your word for it.

[AurorusVox]

I don't vote until I'm completly caught up with the thread. You also realize the contradiction in this post, right? You're attacking me for not placing a vote while claiming me scum and witholding your vote.

This is a great point, AV.

This is a great point, AV.

GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.

Vote: AV

it's not a contradiction. I'm voting Hez.

?

---

RC's attempt at starting a "helpful" counterwagon is awful, as has already been commented upon by...everyone.
His wall also strikes me as an attempt to show how much detail he's putting into his reads but he missed the post I made above which made Reg's point completely wrong. Clearly not making as much of an effort as he'd like us to believe, purposefully ignoring things that would stop him hopping on my wagon.

Also, where did he go from a long list of lynches to just me or Dana? :\
Also, he said Dana makes no mention of me, despite the post he's quoting being 25% about me.
Bad RC, bad.

Vote: RedCoyote

Socio also gains huge scumpoints for clearly not reading the thread for the same reasons as RC.

---

Hindu is probTown for doing a meta-mine search. He could have just tagged on a vote like everyone else.

---

Perhaps for scum it is. I have no interest in showing my hand at all. The only people I could imagine wanting to do so would be doing so because they want to draw attention away from them (scum).

So are all the people who have "slipped" that they've got nukes scum, then?

---

MoI:

"Why is he scummy?"
Because he's been trying to scare people off his lynch by raging at them.

This is a staple ‘go to’ move of some player in this game – “attacking the attacker” with zeal. It is an established part of both Town and Scum games for these players.

Are you suggesting it is always a scum-tell when you see this activity?

But that wasn't what he said. He said that he would rage at the people who wanted to PL him. He raged at me because I found him scummy. That can be the only reason since it was the first thing I'd said to him.

Yet he has "no read" on Magua. Inconsistency.

@Mina: in SAIII where I was town, I drew a lot of early heat on D1, from Scum SpyreX and SK-hopeful-MoI, in particular. You read me as town then. I'm seeing parallels to that game...but no Mina townread? This upsets me.

Hmmm … I don’t recall Town AV coming under ‘a lot of heat’ D1 and Stars Aligned 3. I remember you having a little tiff with Spyrex but my memory recalls Furc, Fate, Benmage and ReaperCharlie all getting substantially more pressure than you.

SpyreX tunnelled me a hell of a lot that game, and you tagged on, both of you ignoring most of the responses I brought up. I was also the leading wagon a couple of times (only with four votes but still...). SpX's tunnelling was the main thing that stuck with me that game, though.

I'll take the rope today if needed but first people need to look elsewhere because when I flip town you'll all realise that today has been a waste, since most of the people on my wagon have simply voted and haven't even explained it,

so it's not like I (or anyone else) can even do a proper wagon analysis to see who I (etc.) think is scum or town.

Yet in light of the bolded you were happy earlier to throw out who you thought was scum on your wagon. Inconsistent. Either you can't get a good idea and are just throwing darts or the above isn't valid. Pick your poision.

"proper" is the key term. It's difficult to really judge people "properly" wrt: the wagon, because everyone was doing the same (seemingly fashionable) reasonless-vote. Besides, most of my scumreads I put out came from reasons that had little to do with the wagon itself.

---

I'm liking ML and Hindu's recent posting.
Not sure what SJ hopes to get out of his banter with LLD. SJ is scummy, LLD is townish, and all the nuclear posturing is just making SJ look worse. I actually agree with LLD's sentiment that SJ is just trying to turn on whoever might nuke them down the line.

---

Toog: Opinions on the RC wagon?

[AurorusVox]

@IS, you realise the Euroscum haven't got the guts to kill anyone til tonight, right?

Didn't expect a disappearing act from RCTown at all.

Vote: HezLucky

[AurorusVox]

It reads more like a fake attempt to ask a probing question to me. It's an utterly pointless question because there isn't only one scum faction, so it has zero relevance to anything. But by asking it Hez looks like he's doing something in the game. So I could read that as either terrorist or scum, tbqh.

[AurorusVox]

Hez; my problems with you was before we even got into our argument. The reason I kept on at you was because you were being inconsistent. You can't say "I hate PL'ers and will avenge myself!" and then turn on someone for actually having a legitimate gripe with you.

Swift + Socio are scummy and your catchup post was actually okay so I wouldn't mind switching to one of these two for now.

Vote: Sociopath

Also interested in the SDC x SP game.

[AurorusVox]

How so? Surely lynching the SK halves the non-town directed NKs we face each night. It's a much better option.

[AurorusVox]

Swift + Socio are scummy and your catchup post was actually okay so I wouldn't mind switching to one of these two for now.

Vote: Sociopath
Also interested in the SDC x SP game.

Hmmm. I look through your ISO. A few responses to Socio and one call of him as scum for not reading like RedCoyote. This looks like the second time in as many days that you have been jumping for any viable wagon not your own.

Who are your top scum suspects?

Um. You've voted for both of these people that I've "jumped" to, so are you now saying that there is no good reason OTHER than I don't know let's say the fact that they're scummy to vote for them?

Also @Magua:

Top Scum Pixx:
- Hez
- Swift Justice
- MoI
- Vi?

- SocioPath (SK)

Top Town Pixx:
- Hindu
- ML
- LLD
- IS

Have at it.

[AurorusVox]

So Gamma's post reads as "I know AV isn't scum but let's just mislynch him anyway"

Are you

trying

to get scum to their kill quicker and lower town's numbers, GG? Cos that's what it looks like there.

[AurorusVox]

I almost filled that out with my role in it. I'm probably just stupid. But other players have revealed their roles casually and Pooky's "blank" seemed to facilitate that. He's not a top scumread but I read that as an anti-town thing.
People still don't understand the Sub thing. It just made the Sub into a regular nuke. Well, it made Sub the same as Silo or a scumclaim.
I didn't say Hez's post was town, I said it was "okay". It had some reads which will be useful later down the line at least, and I'm happy to go after the SK and reduce NKs by one.

Now you're backing off of it. If you want to lynch me, lynch me. None of this "I'll probably change later" bull. Either IS is scummier than me and you should try to get him lynched rather than half-heartedly poking in my direction and throwing a vote in his direction; or I'm scummier than him and so why are you voting IS?

@InHim: Explain? If I was the terrorist, him trying to lynch me wouldn't lower town's numbers, would it?

[AurorusVox]

Hey, GG. I'm at L-2. 'Sup?

The longer GG continues to stay off my wagon despite saying he'd be on it, the scummier he becomes.

Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless, and should not be lynched today.
I have pledged my allegiance to the American people and will do all in my power to destroy those European pansy-ass lily-livered coward-bitch-suckling bastards.

[AurorusVox]

Rundown of the latest post:

GG claims scum.
LLD and IS continue to be town.
Dana proves she's town.
SP WIFOM claims SK.
Pooky remains null.
Does Katsuki still have a secret towntell?
Reg edges townwards.
CSL increases the chances of RoW as scum (CSL obviously isn't the WK'ing kind)
Gorilla asks to be lynched today.

[AurorusVox]

/sigh

Ooba, top scumreads outside of myself?

[AurorusVox]

I saw it. I agree. Other people are scummier.

If you agree, you think Gorilla's definite scum. If you can explain why you think others are scummier and why you suspect them, that would help.

Actually this is a really good point, but I think there's something more interesting at stake here. LLD proposes that Gorilla is the SK, and Toasty agrees...Killing the SK reduces NKs by one. So, Toasty, why aren't you voting Gorilla? Do you prefer the cool comfort of having nine other people on the wagon with you, to keep you under the radar a little more?

[AurorusVox]

MoI: GG is scum trying to stay off my wagon because he knows I'll be going down as a mislynch and he can now point back to how he didn't really support the wagon but kinda was with town on it even though they were wrong, and all sorts of bullcrap like that. Now you're going to parade his indecisive cowardliness as pro-town? Please. I know he's your buddy but come on. He essentially said "well I can't be bothered to go against all the people that say AV is scum" which to me implies that he he knows I'm town, but doesn't want to disagree with everyone else, but still wants to seem like he had an inkling about me not being scum. It's all sorts of constructed for back-peddling and not taking responsibility.

[AurorusVox]

1. I'm voting for who I think is the SK. GG is different.
2. Well duh. That's why I'm on his ass. I know I'm town so that's why I'm pushing him on it.
3. (A) Yes, but he wouldn't have been ending the day. I was at L-4 - which he explicitly knew - when he was talking about voting me. Also, he

would

have voted me had I been at L-2. His reason for backing off wasn't that I was "too close" to getting lynched, it was that I wasn't close enough. So your (a) point is completely backwards.
(B) No, but I don't believe I'm a scum suspect of his, so what he's doing isn't quite what you're suggesting here anyway (I have stated multiple times now that I believe he knows I'm town). But even if it was the case that he thought we were both scum, there is NO reason he couldn't have voted for me and continued to push IS with questions etc. As it is, he isn't even pressuring me at all, he's simply vaguely proposed to vote me and then voted IS instead.

[AurorusVox]

With RC's townflip, that just means that those players thought they could get an RC mislynch and save my demise for today. Don't let the Eurotrash get away with this!

[AurorusVox]

MoI: Now tell me why you're not on Hez' ass for wanting to end the day so quick, but you'll question my pressure on GG?

[AurorusVox]

@AV-

Everyone can get here and say a few things

, AV can claim, and AV can die. I'd also go for a few other lynches (IS in particular I'd like dead more, dana I'd be okay with dying too) but the difference between them and AV isn't strong enough to ignore the amount of likely town that think AV is scum.

Mina and Regfan still haven't shown up. I like words, and if I vote you now then Pooky will probably just powerhammer you.

So WHY did you say you'd do it if I were at L-2 but not when I was at L-4? That's going completely against what you just said.

---

1. I'm voting for who I think is the SK. GG is different.
2. Well duh. That's why I'm on his ass. I know I'm town so that's why I'm pushing him on it.

1. Stating “that’s different” isn’t valid reasoning. But since you brought it up why do you think Socio is the Serial Killer?
2. What do you think of all the other players who have directly called you Town? Is GG the only scum in that pool in your opinion?

1. Um it IS valid when the accusation was hypocrisy. It can't be hypocrisy if it's something DIFFERENT, can it? Socio as SK makes sense, as I said earlier he wasn't posting like his town or mafia self as I've far as I've seen in DEFCON games before, and SK is the one role that's neither mafia nor town.
2. I've already said that I distrust Vi calling me town. How the hell are you calling me scummy when you're not even properly reading my posts?

With RC's townflip, that just means that those players thought they could get an RC mislynch and save my demise for today. Don't let the Eurotrash get away with this!

So your premise is that scum, having you as Town very close to lynch decided instead shift the wagon away to Red to mislynch him first and leave you for today?

When there was that much momentum towards RCTown yesterday, I don't doubt scum hopped on to help it go through. Mislynches that make sense at the time are a great help to scum; and now today they're renewing their assault. If someone else dropped a clanger like RC I'm sure scum would ride that one too. I'm useful for scum to keep around while everyone is willing to jump on without explaining why, because it just means they can do the same thing and get away with it.

MoI: Now tell me why you're not on Hez' ass for wanting to end the day so quick, but you'll question my pressure on GG?

Oh this I find scummy as hell.

You post this 7 minutes after Hez’s 972 and assert I’m being inconsistently scummy for not attacking Hez for his ‘end the Day early’ post when I haven’t yet posted yet? That’s not in the least Town seeking to actively scum-hunt.

But you don't find him wanting to finish the day scummy as hell? I read his previous posts (finishing what we started yesterday) as wanting today over asap, so I'm not really sure why you're saying it's only been 7 minutes. It's the attitude, not the post, I'm referring to,

Also I notice you really wanted my answers to (3a) and (3b) but you have no comment to make back about them. If you were town you'd be ready to engage with what I said there, but you obviously don't care about real analysis since you know who the scum are already (your buddies).

[AurorusVox]

my IS-vote gets to be a placeholder that irritates you

[AurorusVox]

1. So your evidence that Socio is the Serial Killer is Meta? Noted.

How is it not hypocritical for you to attack someone for calling someone scum but voting elsewhere when you are doing the same thing? You can couch it all you want in “it’s different, I’m voting for the SK” when you are both doing exactly the same thing – voting a different “scum” suspect when calling the other scum.

2. I’ve read your posts. Asking to reiterate a point you made yesterday is part of the scum-hunting process. Other than listing Vi on your 'maybe' scum list today you've said more or less nothing about that slot today.

1. Because going after the SK is a legitimate tactic right now. It IS different, and it's "scummy as hell" that you don't recognise this.
2. I've said Vi is possible white knighting me multiple times, and explained it. I also said CSL made that slot more likely scum kthx.

You are going to get turned into a smoking crater pretty soon after DEFCON 1 opens so your point about being a ‘reserved’ lynch really doesn’t hold.

Fair enough.

What do you think of the lack of momentum on Gorilla for his “herp it was reaction fishing I’m a good nuke anyway because I am useless” post. That has to qualify as a clanger. Does it make you think Gorilla is more likely to be scum?

I don't like it, but I don't know what to make of it because I can't see scum asking to be nuked like that.

But you don't find him wanting to finish the day scummy as hell? I read his previous posts (finishing what we started yesterday) as wanting today over asap, so I'm not really sure why you're saying it's only been 7 minutes. It's the attitude, not the post, I'm referring to,

Yes, I do. It’s why I questioned him in my first post after said post.

But you didn't call him scummy for it. You posed it as a question, not an accusation.

The 7 minutes aspect has to do with the fact that you are attacking me for not finding him scummy when I hadn’t had a chance to post at all. The fact that you had already made judgement about what I would think of Hez’s post before I had even posted is scummy as hell.

And you don't think his hurry to "finish what we started yesterday" contributed to that feeling of rushing?

Also I notice you really wanted my answers to (3a) and (3b) but you have no comment to make back about them. If you were town you'd be ready to engage with what I said there, but you obviously don't care about real analysis since you know who the scum are already (your buddies).

Rhetoric. I saw your responses and don’t feel they warranted further discussion. Pro-Tip: everything you say isn’t worth re-hashing constantly.

But they were direct negations of your previous points. I'd have liked to see what you made of the points - do you just accept that they're right, then?

But to take up your argument – I see you didn’t comment on my response regarding the Sub issue or your clear Appeal to Emotion that I made in 962. If you were Town you’d be ready to engage with what I said there, but you obviously don’t care about real analysis since you know who the scum are already (your buddies).

See how uselessly filled with pointless rhetoric that line of attack is?

This is another obvious difference. My accusation is that YOU asked me a question and then didn't follow up on my response: your accusation is that YOU made a point that I didn't follow up on. There's a clear difference.

[AurorusVox]

AV, I currently think you are scum because of 1)how quickly you agreed with the RedCayote wagon, 2) emotional defense (WHAT CAN I DO? ) 3)Meta check
Then, in D2 4) Calls IS town, then suggests people should move their votes to IS "if they think he's scummier." In my opinion, trying to get votes of of oneself in favor for votes on one of your town reads...the survival mentality there is way to strong. 5) Calls gorilla scum but doesn't clearly explain why. Also, another hop as soon as

a strong town read

mentions their suspicions.

I do think the votes based on the sub comment are stupid.

This is another obvious difference. My accusation is that YOU asked me a question and then didn't follow up on my response: your accusation is that YOU made a point that I didn't follow up on. There's a clear difference.

aaaand not following up on a response is inherently scummy?

1) Um. So what about EVERYONE ELSE that voted him before me? Let's not even mention that I had additional reasons along with my vote other than just Baa.
2) I honestly still don't know why most of the people on the wagon are voting for me. That comment was made out of frustration with that fact.
3) If you want to talk Meta, I can present you with a bunch of games where I've not played like this as scum. Plus, Hindu Meta'd me and disagrees with your findings. As someone who has scummed it up with me, I don't think your meta argument overpowers his.
4) Um again. I never said "people" should be voting IS. That whole thing was in the context of GG's half-AV half-IS voting bullshit.
5) Where did I call Gorilla scum? I said quite explicitly in my last post that I didn't see it coming from scum.

Not following up on a question he himself had wanted the answer to is scummy, because if he doesn't want to talk about the answer, why ask the question in the first place? The reason he didn't follow up on it was because my response proved his question was misguided and wrong, and he didn't want to draw attention to that by acknowledging my response.

[AurorusVox]

Read that as: "Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless. I should not be lynched today"
Or if you prefer; "I'm not useless, unlike Gorilla, and I should not be lynched today"
Whatever permutation of that you prefer.

[AurorusVox]

Goddamnit SJ I was just about to post that.

Unvote; Vote: Gorilla

Guess scum have got a reason to try to be martyred after all...

---

(On the other hand, this post makes it look like AurorusVox suspected SocioPath of being the terrorist this whole time, so some clarification in this arena would be nice.)

I do think SP is the SK. If we can get a decent wagon on him today then I'm all for it.

---

@MoI: This is a clanger worth voting for, and keep your eyes out for the bussers hopping on soon. His previous "clanger" wasn't a scumslip, because it was just bizarre from scum or town. This, however, is a bonafide liar-liar-pants-on-fire scumslip.

[AurorusVox]

- Pooky: What made you want to post a detailed response to MoI? I thought you didn't believe it them?
- Magua: Why include Toogleoo in your list of potential scum when he's "probtown" according to you?
- Gorilla: If ML is 110% scum, how much % scum am I?
- SJ: Do you think walls are inherently anti-town?

I have answers to people from a few pages back coming up next...

PREDIT: @EquiSJ: When I realised that he wasn't playing like TownSP or ScumSP from the previous DEFCON games. Strengthened by SDC's point about the SpyX kill, and then super strengthened when SP started WIFOM'ing about it.

[AurorusVox]

1. Because going after the SK is a legitimate tactic right now. It IS different, and it's "scummy as hell" that you don't recognise this.
2. I've said Vi is possible white knighting me multiple times, and explained it. I also said CSL made that slot more likely scum kthx.

1. So going after scum of any sorts isn’t a legitimate tactic?
2. How did CSL make the slot more likely to have drawn a scum role-Pm, exactly?

I didn't say that it wasn't legitimate to hunt for EuroTrash, but I am saying that removing the SK has a far greater impact on the game that chipping 1/5 of the scum away. The earlier they go, the less NKs we face, which is a good thing. Pressuring one Euroscum but voting a SK suspect is different from pressuring two Euroscum but voting for the one you think is less likely to flip Euro. You're smart enough to realise there's a difference.
2. I think CSL's vote makes that slot more likely to be scum because: if Vi actually thought I was a townie like she earlier suggested, she'd have been able to share those thoughts with CSL in their hydra QT. Instead, if she

is

was WK'ing me, then she hasn't got the same reason to talk about why she thinks I'm town to CSL, and so CSL votes me without considering that slot's earlier play.

I don't like it, but I don't know what to make of it because I can't see scum asking to be nuked like that.

So you don’t like it and thus agree it’s a clanger. Your original premise was that scum would latch onto something like that and push for another mislynch while keep you around as a viable mislynch. Again – what does the complete lack of significant movement towards Gorilla say to you based on that premise alone.

Well, there has been movement towards him, just not as rapid as RC's. I know you're trying to draw me on saying it makes him likelier scum because his buddies aren't hopping on it - then you'll point out how I don't think he's scum and therefore make me disprove my own argument. BUT you should understand that the context here is that the clanger wasn't as bad, because there is no scum motivation to getting martyred, so that should explain the slower pace. HOWEVER, his most recent one - lying outright - is a 100% scumslip, so I'd fully expect more townies to start voting him and for his buddies to start bussing, so the wagon should begin swell as quickly as RC's.

Because his reaction (or lack therof) to the question when I’d clearly already expressed that rushing the Day was scummy gives an even better read to me.

In this case the fact that he completely ignored it compounds the scumminess.

So you thought he was scummy for it but you didn't want to "let on" that you thought that?

Feeling of rushing? On your part?

Regardless of whether you felt rushed attacking me for a stance that hadn’t happened yet is scummy.

No. I'm saying. Didn't HIS desire to "finish what we started yesterday" (posted in his first post today) tell you that HEZ wanted to RUSH today's day through? It has nothing to do with me feeling rushed. It has everything to do with how you didn't pick up on HEZ's attitude of rushing.

Let me ask you though – do you just accept that your Sub comments were scummy and that you made a clear Appeal to Emotion? Because

Don't leave me hanging here

I think my sub comments could be misinterpreted as scummy. I openly admitted as much when I made them ("I -KNOW- its a very powerful scum role, and this may sound really silly"). But they had good intentions.
I don't know which post you think is AtE? The one where I said I'd stay quiet for a while? That was probably an appeal to something. An appeal to the better judgements of the players voting for me, perhaps.

---

@IS- His iso 5 suggesting we let scum have the sub and that espionage is useless if scum has counteresp is hella dumb, stretching Pooky's I'm America because ____ to be rolefishing was bad, and the biggest thing IMO is his post with hop onto the RC wagon- His stuff about the helpful counterwagon isn't bad but everything else he votes RC for is related to him in some way- It looks like he's more concerned with RC's reads and comments on him than with RC himself.
There's also some stuff other people have said with similarities to his play in Defcon 2 mafia but you'll have to ask them about that.

(1) Does dumb=scum?
(2) I think there was some merit in my sub plan but it was foolish of me to think it would be listened to.
(3) Have I explained that I almost filled Pooky's "_____" in?
(4) Well of course my reasons were related to RC, because he was clearly not reading as much as he wanted us to believe. It's hard to argue that you're being misrepped/misread without the other person having bad reads and comments of you.

---

Did your mother ever tell you that it was wrong to point at everyone else when you yourself are at fault. "Everybody else was doing it" is not a great defense for drug attics, and its not a great defense in mafia either. You did not have a lot of reasons. I gave reasons, MoI gave reasons, all my town reads gave reasons.

My point is that you were saying I was "quick" to jump on RC when in fact I was not quick, I came AFTER a bunch of other people. I have to mention other people because saying I was "quick" ignores that, no, I was actually relatively slow to move my vote. Misrepping my point #1.

Your frustration came off as contrived. Its a matter of opinion that I can't really prove. I think you've played mafia long enough to know exactly what you have to do if town gets on your case.

Fair enough. I don't think I know exactly what to do if town gets on my case but there's little point delving into a theoretical gut opinion charade.

I read your games. One difference of opinion is not enough for me to be like "loliwasjk." My review of your meta suggests that if you are town, your play is subpar. In your town games, you do more than just defend yourself, and your attacks are significantly more descriptive.

It obviously depends on the games you look at. In txtMafia, my town play was subpar, in SAIII, I got myself murdered, in Cults vs Masons people thought I was scum. I hardly come across as obvTown in all of my town games.

Regardless of if you have a town read on IS, your question is basically asking everyone who suspects IS to get off your back if they are voting him. This makes no sense. What's wrong with suspecting two people? Why can't you and IS be scum together? Not to mention your basically telling a player what they SHOULD be doing, with an attempt to influence them in a direction away from you.

Not at all. My question is ONLY asking GG to commit to voting for who he thinks is scummiest. It has nothing to do with anyone else. You also make it look like I'm telling anyone who even suspects IS even a little to vote for him over me. That is not the case. Misrep of my points #2.

"Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless" is a supporting statement for your thesis "I should not be lynched today" no matter how you arrange the statement grammatically.

Um. No. The grammar of the statement does change the meaning. How about if it was put like this? "Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless. Also, I should not be lynched today."

Supporting point 1: I'm not useless---irrelevant to alignment

not sufficient in proving thesis

Fair point.

Supporting point 2: Gammagooey's bullshit--you're allowed to suspect 2 people

not sufficient in proving thesis

Misrep of what I said.

Supporting point 3: This is not my meta--if you know you're meta, you can manipulate it. Also, one disagreement does not warrant a throw-away of my PoV

not sufficient in proving thesis

Limited scope of meta searches renders meta arguments pointless.

Supporting point 4: Idk why people are voting me--so prove them wrong? Be more town? Stop being so passive-aggressive? Get rid of your survival instinct? There's a lot you can do, even if you don't know exactly why people are voting you

not sufficient in proving thesis

Fair enough.

Supporting point 5:Everyone else is doing it--do I even have to explain this?

not sufficient in proving thesis

Misrep of what I said.

In conclusion:
You make 2/5 fair points.
You make 2/5 misreps.
Meta is useless.

So I'd say we're even stevens here.

[AurorusVox]

@SJ:

Pooky's question; feels like he's caving under pressure and doing something he wouldn't normally do. I.e., he doesn't want to attention that will come if he doesn't change his tactics.
Magua's question: I find it incredibly strange that he'd mention his townread of Toogleoo and then still say he could be one of the scum voting for Gorilla. Why not focus on the people he doesn't have a townread on and see which ones are likelier scum?

What I

do

have a problem with is when the walls become not just a wall vs. wall battle but a WALL, REBUTTAL, COUNTER-REBUTTAL, COUNTER-COUNTER-REBUTTAL, WHY DID YOU NOT ANSWER THIS PART OF MY REBUTTAL war of words. I'd go so far as to say that not only is it anti-town, it's also scummy. In case you've forgotten Newbie 940, Nachomamma8-scum pulled me into the same type of wall war with him, basically alienating Thor665-town. What I was arguing made sense and could have won the game for us, but it got lost in the sea of rebuttals I was making.

Can town pull fellow town into a war battle? Sure. It happens. That's why I should be reading your and MagnaofIllusion's posts in detail to see if there is something like the scenario I described above going on or if it's just two wall-posters getting into an argument.

Well the reason I mentioned MoI not answering my response was because otherwise I fail to see why he'd ask the question. It looks like padding to make the wall seem more intimidating/MoI more powerful/wealthy/sexually active.

Also, a wall-war HAS to be rebuttal and counter rebuttals because otherwise why is there a war in the first place? Is it better to skip most things out? Doesn't that help scum skip over the things that they don't want to answer?
And if you think it's got a scummy foundation, what do you make of MoI's part in the wall? Is he a helpless and innocent bystander?

[AurorusVox]

But I wasn't using look at everyone else. I was using my position in the order of people who voted to disprove that I was "quick". Meta surely can't count if you only read my obvTown games, you'll get the wrong impression about my town abilities >_>" I'm very inconsistent.

I thought Gorilla was town prior to his slip so I'm not biased by my opinion of him from earlier. It goes AGAINST my previous opinion of him.
And there is no scum motivation for slipping. He has just proven that he's lied.

Why did he lie? Well, first, he tried a WIFOM defence with "I wouldn't pick Espionage" to boost his Town credentials.
Then he reveals he WOULD have picked Espionage as scum, because he probably FORGOT what he'd said before, because it wasn't something he really meant, just something he wanted to say as a facade. If he's not lying about what he'd have picked as scum, then he's lying earlier for towncred. If he's lying about what he'd pick as scum, there are nefarious reasons for that too - either he wanted towncred for "not" going for any of those (oops, but he did), or he's trying to get cred for his "honesty" about what he'd pick, or there's something seriously naughty going on and he's WIFOMing about what power his scumbuddies have/don't have.

Regardless, he's lied at one point, and there is NO town motivation for him to lie about draft orders or troop preferences in this case.

[AurorusVox]

Eh, Gorilla's slip looks legit to me. I understand cowardly Eurotrash wanting to make it look like it was an accident rather than bussing their buddy, and I foresaw that he'd use that as an excuse to cover his ass. It's too much WIFOM to leave alive right now but I'm guessing people won't want to lynch the PR.

Wei is looking worse as the game goes on. SDC is icky, I understand the frustration at their lack of presence, but I can also understand why RECK wouldn't want to post without checking in with FATE. So I'm treating that as a nulltell, and don't really like MoI latching onto TownToog's case/pressure.
Socio continues to need a nuke. There's zero content from him, just taunting, basically.
The biggest surprise for me is Magua, though. He's basically stopped looking at much else other than lynching me. His activity has dropped in terms of frequency and content, and he's happy to just ride this mislynch to its conclusion and move very little elsewhere.

---

People in need of nukes (in order of NEED4NUKES)

MUSTBNUKED (100% must nuke these people and I'm confident an American hero will do so)
GammaGooey
Magna of Illusion

USEURNUKES (100% must nuke these people but I'm worried that you cowards won't do it)
Gorilla
SocioPath

ANYSPARENUKES? (these people should be immediately nuked next, they're likely to flip scum)
Revenge of the Wei
Hezlucky

DEVELOPINGANEED4NUKE (dislike their recent posts, should be getting a nuke, but will anyone do it?)
Magua
Katsuki

SLOWINGMYFINGER (have been getting better and lessening my desire to see them nuked, but someone might do it anyway)
Swift Justice


Fully aware that's more people than there are scum, so I'm 100% wrong about some of you. Soz.

[AurorusVox]

Um. Eight people. SJ is off my nuke list.

And that's only 2 more than there are total scum. Magua and Katsuki are new additions and least likely to flip scum out of all of them.

It's a graded scumlist. I tried to explain that in the brackets. First four are likeliest scum, separated into whether or not I think they'll get nuked.
Next two make good nukes because they're probScum, but by no means the most certain shots (unlike the first four)
Next two are new additions and are least likely to flip scum, but they've pinged me in the wrong way recently.
SJ is leaving my nuke list but I gather people will nuke them anyway.

[AurorusVox]

Hez is just scared because he knows if people start mass nuking he's going down and his scumbuddies can't save him.

inHim, are the 9 people you want to live the 9 people on my list? :p

[AurorusVox]

That's L-1 folks.

[AurorusVox]

Also, MoI, who's rushing now? Mina is still catching up, SDC hasn't had much to say so far today, plenty of other people have got things left that they're discussing. But y'know go ahead and rush when it suits you. *whistles*

[AurorusVox]

MoI is scum, but its not a double bus, it's a "push a mislynch on the townie" move from MoI

Someone remember to light Gamma up tomorrow.
And MoI x SP nuke each other plz.

Texas Silo Commander, over and out.

[AurorusVox]

Also I fully accept my lynch and was actually kinda hoping you'd hoist me today, since its providing a distraction which is good cover for scum. Didn't want to out and out say it because that would have given them Eurobangers the green light to just hop on the wagon blame free.

But come the morrow, remember my American Words, and destroy those pansies with their Swiss Rolls and French Fries and English Muffins.

[AurorusVox]

SK death = less deaths per night = more likely to keep town numbers greater than scum numbers = protown

[AurorusVox]

@inHim, the Swiss are the true Neutrals, they are the lowest of the low of the Eurotrash, they wouldn't even help fight off the zombie apocalypse in 1944.

Not to mention their knives aren't very helpful in war.

[AurorusVox]

Wow...it came close, didn't it? O_O"

[AurorusVox]

For the record, I don't think Pooky was "lolstupid" for trying it - he obv. intended to force a panicked quicklynch with the fake nuke, but he probably should have asked if it would have been counted as deceiving the mod before doing it (cf. rule 14)

@AGM, I do hope you run "DEFCON 4.0: Total War" because I just want to fire a nuke ;_;

[AurorusVox]

RC somehow scumslipped despite being town >_>