Mini 1190: Game over

[TBuG]

Vote: Panzer

ty ty

[TBuG]

These

are

some pretty God-awful questions.

1. CST
2. I don't see either as being more fun; both have their enjoyable moments.
3. RVS as long as people understand that random voting actually ends.
4. Spiderman.

Unvote; Vote: Hoppster

for that fucking stupid second. I'm struggling to see your reasoning, assuming this isn't random, and if that quoted post is your reasoning... jumpy much?

[TBuG]

When did CC vote for Empking, dear? Are you reading a different thread?

[TBuG]

Unvote; Vote: Hoppster

for that fucking stupid second. I'm struggling to see your reasoning, assuming this isn't random, and if that quoted post is your reasoning... jumpy much?

You honestly don't see it?

What exactly is Captain Corporal saying with his post?

Nothing.

Is the claim scummy? Is it a town-tell? Is it neutral?

We don't know, because CC-scum has just made a horribly transparently fluffy post in an attempt to look like he's commenting on the claim.

"Nice Roleclaim" - what does that even mean?!

I just didn't find it to be suitable so soon, but I like your response. Don't particularly agree with it, but I like your reasoning.
UNVOTE: Hoppster

As far as the claim itself - I'm a bit frustrated by it happening right off the bat. Especially given that Empking's initial vote for CC seemed semirandom, and between that and the FoS on me, it seemed to have solidified. Empking, why

did

you claim so fast?

[TBuG]

Thomith, any... y'know, opinions, speculation, anything useful...?

For now I'll chalk SK's mistakes up to simple human error and confusion, though he's kind of all over the place.

Why should a miller wait to claim?

I guess I was just misguided, it didn't make sense to me because, as scum, claiming miller instantaneously can deflect suspicion, and it will likely perplex my future read of Empking... Buttt in light of Empking's explanation it makes sense. That and the fact that I haven't played in a while so I should probably screw my head on a little tighter.

[TBuG]

VOTE: Toro

And here's why!

VOTE: Sundy

This ain't random is it?

Toro's first post was this, which looks to me like an attempt to make it clear he's paying attention without commenting on anything the slightest bit relevant.

The remainder of Toro's posts have been tunneling on Empking's miller claim, starting with agreeing with me that it seemed a bit sketchy:

I guess I was just misguided, it didn't make sense to me because, as scum, claiming miller instantaneously can deflect suspicion, and it will likely perplex my future read of Empking... Buttt in light of Empking's explanation it makes sense. That and the fact that I haven't played in a while so I should probably screw my head on a little tighter.

I'm on this track of thinking as well, something's nagging at my head that Empking is not who he says he is.

<snip snip>

And the problem I have with Miller being claimed this early is that it can easily cover Emp's tracks upon investigation by a cop. The way people are all agreeing to it could solidifiy his spot in the closing stages. Don't take this as me wanting to get rid of Empking right off the bat but it's certainly something to think about.

IGMEOY: Empking

but he instantly backtracks into an IGMEOY, as though to make his subsequent attack

and claims of Empking attacking him

less notable:

No it's not. Once again, would a vote legitimize my case to you?

If you weren't merely throwing the thought out there then I wouldn't be voting you for merely throwing the thought out there. That's true.

I think you're trying to mis-read what I'm saying back there, you're trying to make it look like I'm pushing it as scum, but it is a strong possibility. Why so jumpy?

1. How am I jumpy?
2. If it was a "strong possibility" why did you "merely throwing the thought out there,". Surely a strong possibility deserves more than that.

1. You're attacking me over doubting your Miller claim. What you fail to realize is that all of us don't know who you are exactly, and that there is a possibility that you're faking the Miller claim so you can get the cop of your trail. Your attacking me due to my thinking appears jumpy to me.
2. No one else doubted the authenticity of your Miller claim, so I "threw it out there" to remind people that there's a chance you're lying.

The part that rubs me ESPECIALLY the wrong way is Toro's claims that Empking is suddenly attacking him. What?

Additionally, most of page three looks like Toro posting about how Empking might be scum. Yet, Empking refutes and suddenly it's an attack. I'd quote this all but it's already in one neat place for your viewing pleasure.

I would ask that others refrain from tacking votes on as Toro's now at four. A little more argument rather than a quicklynch on page four would be nice.

[TBuG]

All things considered, I doubt anyone expected us to be out of RVS by halfway through page 1. XD

[TBuG]

1Joe60, Sundy, Thomith, Captain Corporal, Jakesh97, Elfen

You guys suck. Seriously, he admitted to "just throwing it out their" that's the same thing as claiming scum.

Not... really...?

[TBuG]

I have to agree with Panzer, but I don't like the Miller Mason Recruiter claim more.

Vote:SleepyKrew

Quality first post there, agreeing that the obvious joke claim is suspicious and commenting on NOT A SINGLE OTHER THING THAT HAS HAPPENED.

FoS: animorpherv1

I'm really unconvinced that you've read anything except the post immediately above yours.

Toro is acting scummy but I really don't think he is part of the scum team.

Why?

This.

And after you said that and what he posted later. It kind of does seem odd. But Emp did attack Toto cause she may have somewhat counter claimed or accusing he may be lying. Again, she is still wary if he is or not, as for I

What? Counterclaim? Also, voting after being called out is not, in and of itself, suspicious. OMGUSing is when you vote with little reasoning. Empking had reasoning.

... Come again?

Of course

there's a chance he's town (and therefore a Miller), that's the situation WITH EVERYBODY.

Please... with this logic, you should never ever make a vote apart from a select few scenarios when somebody is confirmed scum.

Yeah...your point is?

Alrighty then, I'll ask for your permission on when and when not to vote master.

/facepalm... His point was that you essentially said, well, I don't think he's miller, but I'm not going to vote him unless he is because I don't want to mislynch a townie.

Let's just say I have a stronger gut feeling that Thomith is scum, I may have less points on him but my gut's telling me scum atm. (This is also addressed to SK's 108)

Gut feelings =/= scumhunting.

1. You seem a bit more suspicious than "null".
2. He's a famous player.
3. Well, if you were Cop, would YOU waste an inv now that you know you'll get a guilty?
4. 65/35 isn't "null".

1. I am. Read my judgment it doesn't say null.
2. What does it matter?
3. No.
4. Once again, read my judgment it doesn't say null.

Honey, you said his miller claim was a nulltell after saying we know how you felt about it.

1Joe60, Sundy, Thomith, Captain Corporal, Jakesh97, Elfen

You guys suck. Seriously, he admitted to "just throwing it out there" that's the same thing as claiming scum.

Not... really...?

Yes really. That's scum play 101.

Elfen is also scum BTW.

Why? On both counts.



Re: the debate over whether or not Empking would be investigated, it's a known fact that more well-known players have a higher chance of being investigated. The longer you've been here, the more people know your name, the more likely someone is to pick you when they're trying to pick someone to investigate.

[TBuG]

Elfen is playing like an idiot but is also lining up lynches.

Ah, I thought I wasn't the only one who saw this.

I agree, except I think he's scum with you because he started with agreeing with you and now there's this slow distancing you guys seem to be doing. You voted him with flimsy, easily debated reasoning, then unvoted him even though you still seem to think he's suspicious.

[TBuG]

Unvote:Toro

because Empking's retarded tunneling and inventing of facts is fucking with my scumdar.

[TBuG]

Empking was asking where he specifically said that

you

said you wanted a mislynch, because he was extrapolating his conclusion from various posts you had made, even though that conclusion in the first place was scummy and leading. I think at this point one of Toro/Empking is scum.

[TBuG]

.... It seems like he is wanting to get lynched... Jester much? Meh... just a thought

This is why I hate the fact that he claimed Miller so much right now.

It's starting to read as very anti-town that he claimed it in the first place. This entire day, we've been focused on his claim and the resulting arguments.

[TBuG]

....Hmm.... HNNNNN>>> ::Looks at Title of game:: Is it possible he took diff roles from the 5 games and put them in one ?? o.o

Are you stupid?

[TBuG]

Maybe tunneling was a bit strong, but your adamance that he tell you where you said that he said he wanted a mislynch was frustrating in that you refused to clarify your question. "The only player who's scumhunted even a little" is just plain offensive. Toro has not committed every single scumtell in the book, you have extrapolated his behavior at every turn. Yes, he's quite scummy, but the way you've been reacting is just as scummy. There's a difference between scumhunting and jumpy aggression based on things he isn't even saying.

p-edit:
I think the chance of Toro and Empking being scum together is very low, given that the primary reason either have them have been focused on in the slightest is because of each other. However, I'm fairly adamant that one of them is scum, and I'm still really unhappy with how Toro has responded to the points against him time and time again... sigh.

[TBuG]

IT seemed like it was becoming more bitching then legit arguing with some helpful purpose behind it.

This is why I'm getting so confused.

[TBuG]

@ Toro: Very

clearly

, I want you to say why you felt able to vote Thormith but not Empking earlier.

[TBuG]

On what planet is a minor contributor or an active lurker (I believe the first, but I see the argument for the second) a bigger threat than an aggressive player?

[TBuG]

Well, Toro's done nothing to alleviate my suspicion of him. I'm incredibly dissatisfied with his answer as to voting Thomith over Empking - I don't understand what makes Thomith a bigger threat. Soo...

Vote: Toro

That's unlikely to change unless Empking or Elfen do anything outstandingly suspicious.

That being said, I'd really like those posts Sundy and Joe promised us, and s'more contribution from ani past that singular sketchy post would be nice.

[TBuG]

I want to keep Empking/Toro around for the good points they make

This is the only moment is your post where you even somewhat address your thoughts on Empking and Toro. What are your reads on them? You

surely

have them, given how much of the thread has been them arguing with each other.

I can't put my finger on whether I like or don't like Sundy's post. He could easily be scum trying to avoid lynching the arguing townies. However, scum could also easily keep pushing a lynch on one of them. Idk, I need to start reading in isolation, the more I think about it the less I like Elfen. Lots of posting, but no real content except for fueling the Emp/Toro fire.

Unvote

[TBuG]

That post was missing my theory that the lack of momentum on Empking or Toro mean they aren't one scum, one town like I thought before. I'm get gradually more suspicious that they're both town. But again, need to reread.

[TBuG]

The thing I don't like about Panzer is his suggestion that both Toro and Empking are scum. I see this as nearly impossible when we weren't even focusing on

either

of them before they began attacking one another.

[TBuG]

it can do but i am unsure atm, i voted because i dont think a miller lynch is really ever good day one and toro is pushing it badly.

Hold up, you know that Emp is a miller?

This reeks of scum desperately searching for something to sell us as a slip.

When given the slightest amount of pressure your keeping your eye on Empking is now a full blown case? Why are you asking for someone else to provide justification for you to vote on something you don't think is a definitive scumtell? The fact that you still don't have a vote down at this stage in the game and haven't said anything else is highly suspicious.

I understand you're still reading through the game but it didn't take long for me to start pushing the case on Emp what with the complete crap about me being Godfather/scum.

You managed to

completely avoid

answering his questions whatsoever.

Vote: Toro

[TBuG]

Er.

Unvote

because it would be really easy to pin a seventh vote on and I want a claim first.

[TBuG]

Unvote

Because I didn't technically have it at the start of the line and I'm paranoid.

[TBuG]

Vote: Toro

I don't buy it, and I don't think town would have said LOL GO LOOK FOR MY BREADCRUMBS.

[TBuG]

First of all, Toro, if you aren't lynched... from what you've posted I'm certain you'd ignore everyone and do this anyway, but I'd ask that, if I'm wrong (which I'm starting to suspect I am) and you are the vig, you use your NK tonight and use it on someone who you actually find suspicious. Not yourself, because (and obviously you know this) but clearing yourself does nothing if you're dead; not a lurker because lurking entirely is a null-tell and lurkers can be replaced. We only have one left, anyway, and he's likely getting replaced soon.

ABOUT ELFEN. I've kind of dismissed him, honestly.

::Rolls eyes:: yes, i do that alot. I usually keep my opinios to my self.. which isn't good on this game.. but I usually wait and ride it out. But when people want me to vote I kinda just do >_> and im still waiting for sundy's reason to her/him vote

LOL REALLY IS THIS A SERIOUS POST. This is completely grounds for lynching. I very nearly want to change my vote, but...

Huh.

Toro. tell me what your wincon says.


pre edit.

._. yep. I am a very anti social person. I don't talk much(unless to friends) So basically I keep my voice closed since now one cares about them

Now for your wincon? may i see it?

Pre edit2

I still want to see his wincon

wait so are you specifically asking someone to quote their role PM? are you unaware that this is blatantly against every single ruleset?

Yes, Elfen is a terrible poster and player, but I honestly think he's just a Village Idiot who doesn't have the first clue how to play Mafia. Maybe I'm wrong and he's scum, but my gut says he's stupid town. I'm not sold on this, though... The wincon badgering also comes off slightly as though he's desperately trying to look like town.

[TBuG]

Whats there to loose when I have nothing to loose

Is this in response to the wincon desperation? Because I'm actually legitimately worried that it's modkillworthy.

[TBuG]

... wtf! It even has the color code on it >_> Not use to that... What eve happened to where the scum don't know the color code or what it looks like. I mean that gives the scum a better chance for lieing D:

Helpful hint, generally asking someone to confirm something that's on their role PM is modkillable.

[TBuG]

But when its on the first page telling you all the information it kinda isnt >_> Why do they have a role pm there?

As an example, usually. If you could confirm people over PM what would be the point in playing a game with logic and - jesus fucking christ you clearly have not played enough newbie games

[TBuG]

We I have played more games without the PM open in the view for everyone. I've played where the scum had to wait till some one dies before they can conclude their fake role claim. Where some didn't even had a wincon and so on.

Either way, my point is that if you're ever starting to ask someone what exactly is written in their role PM or the color of a certain stretch of text, ANYTHING that confirms whether or not they are town based on something they can't paraphrase - that's wrong and you should shut the fuck up. I'm not saying anything else about this because I shouldn't fucking have to. These are things you should know before you play a game like this.

[TBuG]

*sigh* Fiiine.

Unvote

Uh. Why should Toro self-vig himself? My vote is hell the fuck no.

No self-vig

. As I've said, Toro should vig someone he thinks is scummy. In fact, I would feel the most comfortable if Toro told us who he plans to vig beforehand.

As far as the lynch goes, I'm leaning towards Jakesh.

[TBuG]

Why in the hell did toro become a bandwaggon?

UNVOTE: Toro

someone explain to me as I think the reasons I have read all jumbled and absolutely ridiculous. Explain, now please.

VOTE: Toro

because I can.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaah...

Vote: jakesh

[TBuG]

How's about we stop telling the claimed vig who they can and can't vig?

Additionally, I agree with Sundy. I'd like to hear from the replacement. I completely disagree with Panzer's stance on replacements *shrug*

[TBuG]

Hey guys, sorry for vanishing, things came up offline but I'm back and will catch up pronto. ^_^

[TBuG]

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate xvart's 419. Hoppster has been one of my strongest town reads up to here and it reads like he's scum using massive amount of faillogic to try and smear one of the few logical forces for the town.

SleepyKrew hops on right after, da fuq? I liked you better when you were lurking intensely through everything relevant that was happening in this game up to here. Seriously, dude, I don't remember you saying anything during the whole Toro vs Empking debate.

Hoppster's rebuttal of xvart is truly beautiful.

I like Empking's 438, I highly doubt scum would make that FoS.

I don't like how Panzer and vollkan seem to be siding with whoever makes a bigger wall.

I also don't like CC's active lurking.

This is laughable since you are accusing me of "not trying" and while you do the absolute bare minimum to try and disprove my suspicions.

Are you retarded and just ignoring anything Hoppster says? This is such idiotic slander I cannot even

So what you are saying is anyone with above average intelligence will realize that when you said "for town" you meant "for scum or stupid-town"? That completely undermines your entire ad hominem because what you actually said and what you say you were implying do not align at all. When you said "for town" (referring to me) you were saying "for someone who is town" which looks explicitly like you know I am town. This is the inside information scumtell you incorrectly used earlier.

I actually read it as how Hoppster claims he meant for it to come across.

Panzer's vote on Hiplop looks like he's trying too hard. This with the flipflopping is really catching my eye in the worst ways.

Sundy 455 just read my mind. I like Sundy. Sundy is probably town.

I like Hoppster's 458. This is immediately followed by MORE MEANINGLESS FLUFF FROM SLEEPYKREW DA FUQ CONTRIBUTE NAO

Also, is tunneling the only thing you stop lurking to do?

I didn't see any tunneling there, nice attempt to plant suspicion in the minds of others though. Bit of a scumtell here.

xvart's 470 makes sense, actually, but there's still a few things that come off as scum trying to sheep people to his wagon - namely the list of scum behaviors Hoppster has exhibited. Several points there were not only things I didn't find Hoppster guilty of, but that I thought others were equally if not more guilty of.

Hoppster's 502 is another fantastic rebuttal. I really hope people actually listen this time.

Would you be willing to hammer if he's L-1?

Vote: SleepyKrew

SleepyKrew 535, it just gets worse and worse omg

PLEASE PEOPLE STOP BEING SO FUCKING RETARDED AND SUSPECTING HOPPSTER WHEN SLEEPYKREW IS REALLY FUCKING OBVIOUS SCUM

[TBuG]

Oh my bad

Unvote; Vote: SleepyKrew

[TBuG]

Now, I'd like everyone's opinion of me.

Don't have one.

FoS: Sundy

for changing his mind on three different people based on my post; that being said, I agree that I see potential SK/Panzer bussing.

I may be going out on a limb here, but I could buy a SK/Panzer/xvart scumgroup. The past two pages could be read as Panzer and xvart realizing, hoshit, our scumbuddy is busted, and hauling ass to try and distance even more. Additionally, if xvart had succeeded in his disgusting case on Hoppster and he flipped town as I assume he would have, that would have been a wonderful way for xvart to say oh nvm Panzer you aren't really that scummy.

Either way, assuming SK flips scum because he is, xvart is almost certainly scum with him and there's a decent chance Panzer is, too.

[TBuG]

That was based on this:

#1 PBuG's re-entry into the game and analysis, both of Hoppster and of SleepyKrew (his views on Panzer didn't hurt)
#2 Hoppster's pleas in large letters, which I looked at with new eyes when they were legitimized by a player I trust more

I simply thought it a bit surprising that I'd influenced what appeared to be a strong scum view of Hoppster and town reads of SK and Panzer just a few posts previous. You had just been clamoring for Hoppster's immediate lynch.

[TBuG]

Ah k, that I apparently just misinterpreted. I read "LYNCH: Hoppster" as clamoring for a lynch and... yeah I just misinterpretted things

unFoS

I AM TIRED AND INCOHERENT

[TBuG]

These

are

some pretty God-awful questions.

PBuG

, why would you deem the questions to be of an unacceptable quality and then answer them?

Because, unlike you, I generally answer all questions asked of me when presented with them. I figured there was no harm in doing so. I was also trying to joke around.

Unvote; Vote: Hoppster

for that fucking stupid second.

PBuG

, what was 'fucking stupid' about

Hoppster's

vote? Why did you feel the need to use coarse language? Moreover, what is wrong with placing a second vote on someone?

I didn't see any logic in that vote. I didn't see what was scummy about CC's post in the slightest. I use coarse language in everyday posting and conversation, fucking deal with it. Welcome to mafiascum, we like to swear here. I think a second vote on page one with no reasoning that I can see is silly.

Sunday's really doing nothing to dissuade me of my thoughts that he/Toro is potential scum. He's mostly just being extremely aggressive and asking people for their reads, asking people to vote for certain people, and asking a few completely useless questions despite already stating that he's not going to answer any questions that are not "essential to the progression of this game". It seems like a dumb excuse to ignore questions he doesn't like.

Additionally, his insistence that he'll vig whoever hammers is incredibly antitown, in my opinion. It's basically a way to scare us all into waiting to lynch, and if someone goes for it anyway, Sunday has an excuse to say "lol well sorry I killed town but I told you I'm going to."

Also, I agree that CC's being really fucking scummy, especially his towntell on Sunday for... unvoting. The conversation with SK was actually ridiculous. No content, whatsoever.

Is nobody else seeing Emp's failogic?

So his logic is a fail because he doesn't want to lynch himself? Empking doesn't like useless roles. He happens to have gotten one. I think you're grasping at straws, jumping at Empking because now Sunday is here pushing him. Why isn't SleepyKrew dead yet? Oh, right, because Sunday thinks he's town and is holding his "vig" kill over our heads to keep us from hammering. Fantastic.

[TBuG]

Can everyone summarize the case on me and state why they're voting me?

I'm voting you because despite having an overwhelming lead in number of posts in the thread practically none of them contain any legitimate content. You never seem to have firm reads on anyone, instead jumping around frantically. You've had a few stronger opinions lately, built almost entirely off of xvart and other peoples' opinions. You pick on only the easiest of targets, like CC, or rail on someone with ridiculously shitty logic that someone else is toting as scum, such as Hoppster (via xvart) or Empking (via Sunday).

[TBuG]

If you think I'm scum, you shouldn't be scared of hammering.

I'd hammer you anyway if I weren't already voting you.

[TBuG]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of hiplop hammering before SK posted his reads.

[TBuG]

I pray that you actually read more of the thread before you make a kill. Why do you think I'm scum? Were you dissatisfied with my answers to your questions?

[TBuG]

Additionally, his insistence that he'll vig whoever hammers is incredibly antitown, in my opinion. It's basically a way to scare us all into waiting to lynch, and if someone goes for it anyway, Sunday has an excuse to say "lol well sorry I killed town but I told you I'm going to."

In that case, I'll target you. Satisfied?

The rest of your post made me weep while reading it.

---

Preview Edit:

I pray that you actually read more of the thread before you make a kill. Why do you think I'm scum? Were you dissatisfied with my answers to your questions?

PBuG

, why the change in tone?

Um, I don't know, I don't actively try to convey a certain tone so I don't understand how this question is even relevant. I'm generally fairly frustrated when someone declares they're probably going to kill me when all they've done in relation to me is useless questions about posts on the first page.

Well, guys, looks like Sunday's proving to be retarded, so I hope what I've posted so far helps you enough when I'm dead Day 2 at the hands of our trusty 'one-shot vig'.

[TBuG]

Um, I don't know, I don't actively try to convey a certain tone

Ah, so it was subconscious. I just noticed that your profanity to non profanity ratio dropped to 0.

Sometimes I swear. Sometimes I don't. I don't understand the relevance of my amount of swearing. Of course my tone changed, considering I just found out I was likely going to be killed. Again, I don't understand how that's relevant. You have yet to give me a single reason why you're actually suspicious of me and you've blatantly ignored questions that are indeed progressing the game because it's impossible to change your mind and set you in the right direction unless you actually share your fucking thoughts.

[TBuG]

Ah, Quilford. I've played in a game with him before. Good times.

Someone was just lynched and that's all you have to say? any thoughts? on ANYTHING?

[TBuG]

@Sunday

: You seemed quite certain that SleepyKrew was town. How has his flip as scum changed your thoughts? Is that why you seem to no longer suspect me?

My pool of suspects right now is something like xvart, CC, TheFool, Panzer, and Sunday, although I'm feeling better about Sunday now. CC's vague reads make me feel like he's still just active lurking, playing along without really analyzing because he doesn't have to. Gonna do some rereads to make myself feel a little more sure, though.

[TBuG]

Vote:xvart]/b] Positive he bussed Sleepy.

do you have any reasoning behind this accusation, if so i would like to see it.

I agree with Panzer. Heavily. When xvart started attacking Hoppster, SK sheeped him pretty fucking hard. Hoppster suspected SK. xvart continued attacking. xvart didn't seem to even notice SK until the Hoppster wagon died in favor of the SK wagon, at which point he completely shifted focus.

In fact,

xvart did not even mention being vaguely suspicious of SleepyKrew until declaring his intent to hammer in post 603.

Vote: xvart

[TBuG]

/failcoding

Vote: xvart

[TBuG]

This on top of the fact that both his cases on me and Hoppster are complete and utter crap filled with fail logic and misinterpretations, I'm positive he's Sleepy's buddy.

If you thought the Hoppster case was complete crap, why did you seem so confused as to which one of them was scum?

[TBuG]

I thought vollkan was obvtown.

[TBuG]

If you thought the Hoppster case was complete crap, why did you seem so confused as to which one of them was scum?

Because to be quite honest, I didn't fully read the cases until they pertained to me. I'm allergic to walls of post you see.

So you voted xvart based on something you didn't fully read and then unvoted him shortly afterwards based on something else you didn't read? ...laziness is actually a towntell, all things considered.

At least one of xvart/Panzer are scum. This is glaringly obvious to me. There's a possibility that it's both, but my money is on xvart for sure. xvart's interactions with SK are incredibly telling.

xvart is using a chainsaw defense. He's trying to compensate for the holes in his defense of himself by simultaneously attacking Panzer. He hasn't

really

addressed the points against him. Part of his defense is actually a scumtell - tunneling.

The most likely third is Captain Corporal. CC has been active lurking the everloving shit out of this entire game. There's been some questionable at best exchanges with SK. Oh, and this gem, when CC shared his reads on page 11:

Xvart: I like what I've seen so far. Your walls are understandable and ask some good questions. Of which I will answer.

[[blah blah blah incredibly pointless questions]]

Sorry, guise, the other reads will have to wait. I really don't feel up to posting much more. I will spend more time tomorrow outliming and going in-depth on my scumreads.

So, CC had enough time to form a town read on someone who had posted

twice

since replacing in and answer their questions, but not enough time to give the rest of his reads - including

scumreads that he never gave?

In fact, here was his next post.

I totally feel like hammering.
I'm kind of cautious about this vig-claim of Toro's. Couldn't he be a SK or something? Or just simply lying. Although I'm happy to let him live through the night, as long as we lynch him tomorrow.
Is Elfen being replaced or something? I have no idea what happened there... Although, I admit he sounds scummy, mainly throughout the last page, I would like to see what his replacement or Elfen has to say about it.
Nothing has really changed other than these town points.

This is such a disgustingly scummy post. Especially because I'm viewing Sunday as near-confirmed town due to a combination of Toro/SK interactions and rereading his posts with dramatically less bias.

[TBuG]

...laziness is actually a towntell, all things considered.

So, with this thought in mind, where do you fall on the "not knowing your second suspect's vote count" is a scum tell? Or do you think it is ridiculous and the other points against me stand on their own right?

I don't see what my quote has to do with your question, however I think that's a nulltell. I'm not voting you because of Panzer's points, though. I'm voting you for spending an incredibly significant portion of yesterday twisting Hoppster's words every which way and claiming he said and did things that he did not do only to suddenly jump on SleepyKrew who had been sheeping you all day. That reeks loudly of a bus. The connection with SK is there for you, but I don't see it with Panzer. That's the key reason why I think it's you.

[TBuG]

I think that's a nulltell

I meant this both ways because I agree that it's a semi-viable tell but given that people had in fact just mentioned him being at L-1 the mistake is understandable. I was going to elaborate earlier but I was tired and forgot, my bad.

[TBuG]

If I don't have a set of reads up (with evidence) in 24 hours, lynch me.

Sounds good to me.

[TBuG]

Fine, we let Toto live.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: jake
I'll just put that there while I read up on Hop.

Looks like an easy jump on a lurker when the old wagon didn't work to me.

i don't understand this post. to me it reads "looks like sleepykrew jumped from my wagon to someone elses" even though jake is the same slot as you. correct me if im wrong.
for this post on how i understand it VOTE: TheFool

I understood it as TheFool suggesting that SleepyKrew's vote on his slot was a vote for a lurker, rather than the convenient place to vote a scumbuddy in between wagons that Empking appears to believe. I could see it either way and TheFool is definitely on my scumdar. Probably third choice after xvart and CC. I'm actually starting to like the idea of saving xvart vs. Panzer for another day when CC has been more blatantly scummy. I think I just lean xvart because he's far more visible.

[TBuG]

Also, xvart/TheFool is another potential scumpair.

[TBuG]

Hoppster? You alive?

[TBuG]

Most of this game? You alive?

[TBuG]

herpderp, forgot about that.

[TBuG]

Thinking about it...

Unvote; Vote: Captain Corporal

I'd rather go with useless player who's very very very likely scum than competent player who would be made more likely scum if CC is scum. Still don't like xvart's arguments, but at least he's

reasonably

consistent. CC is an active lurker, my least favorite kind of player.

[TBuG]

Ok, looking at PbugISO, I could definitely see a Emp/PBuG scumteam.

Early game I had a pretty strong town read on you, but now, looking at your ISO, I see otherwise.
I see some mad bussing here.
In #146 you defend Emp's miller claim, then in your next post you go on to accuse Emp. Where's the logic in explaining his actions and then attacking him?
Then in #199 you say you are sure one of Toro/Emp are scum. After Toro claims vig, you never speak of Emp again. Here's the situation as I see it. If you were scum *coughyouarecough*, you would be wanting Toro to be lynched over scumbuddyEmp, obviously. So you vote for Toro. Toro then claims vig and destroys your plan. You are forced to back off Emp than to risk his lynch.
Also, your main point against me is that I'm an active lurker. How is that a good scumtell?
Next up is Emp.

146 was not a defense of his actions. People were talking about whether or not he'd be investigated and I felt like he'd be a potential choice. Never thought the first day would become as ridiculously long as it was.
CC, you completely missed this:

That post was missing my theory that the lack of momentum on Empking or Toro mean they aren't one scum, one town like I thought before. I'm get gradually more suspicious that they're both town. But again, need to reread.

Active lurking is an

excellent

scumtell. Someone who posts a fair bit without very much content (which describes you perfectly) is scummy because they're around, and people notice that they're posting, but they aren't actually helping the town by making any useful contributions. You also had some really strange interactions with SleepyKrew that reek to me of distancing.

Captain Corporal has,

once again

, succeeded in giving us

no

viable scumreads. He only suspects me (who he had a town read of before), then instantly discredits his read and votes me anyway. Then he expects he'll be dead before he can contribute more.

My scumreads are still between CC, xvart, TheFool, and Panzer; I would be surprised if the last two scum (assuming that there's three, I could be wrong) weren't between the four of them. xvart's 826 actually raises a lot of credible points against Panzer.

xvart, if Panzer is scum, who do you see as a potential scumbuddy(/ies)?

[TBuG]

Sundy. Dude. You ignored it until I came back and supported it. Not trying to infer that I influenced your read again but srsly.

[TBuG]

1. His point that you focus on Emp's claim over SK's more dubious claim is interesting. Concerning 282, what made you think Empking is scum trying to throw off an investigation and not a miller following the often-quoted game theory that optimal miller play is to claim right away?

1. Because Hoppster said it was a joke and I believe him, and I already said why he would try to throw of an investigation

No, try again. In that post you had obviously thought SleepyKrew was making an actual claim.

[TBuG]

More votes please.

I'd rather deal with CC-scum today than try and sort out the mess of whether you or Panzer (or TheFool, but he's mostly an option to me if CC somehow flips town) is scum. You must realize how sketchy you look after day 1. My vote isn't moving anytime soon.

[TBuG]

if i'm honest i still dont fully see the case on CC. can someone on the wagon explain FULLY what the case on him is.

To start, look at his ISO and see if you can find a shred of useful content.

[TBuG]

jesus christ.

[TBuG]

A) Did you really forget we were masons together?

...
ok rereading because of this.

Are you rereading your Role Pm?....

Oh, wow, really?

Welp, there we go... Thomith get your ass over here and confirm.

[TBuG]

@PbuG
I don't do huge post throwbacks all that often, but seeing as I am a replace there is one thing I wanted to mention that got missed D1:

Maybe tunneling was a bit strong, but your adamance that he tell you where you said that he said he wanted a mislynch was frustrating in that you refused to clarify your question. "The only player who's scumhunted even a little" is just plain offensive. Toro has not committed every single scumtell in the book, you have extrapolated his behavior at every turn. Yes, he's quite scummy, but the way you've been reacting is just as scummy. There's a difference between scumhunting and jumpy aggression based on things he isn't even saying.

I find it particularly odd how PBuG first apologizes to Empking for using a hyperbole, then gets on his case for Empking using hyperbole himself. Kind of a double standard there.

It looked like tunneling to me at first. Looked at it again, I was wrong. There's a difference in the type and amount of exaggeration involved, as well as the intent. So, this is some obvious twisting in what looks like an attempt to discredit me - no me gusta.

If Thomith doesn't confirm the masonry Panzer just shot up my scumdar for saying xvart/Fool are scumbuddies and voting CC.

[TBuG]

confirming masonry. although i didnt want to out really. UNVOTE:

Your fault for suspecting your mason buddy. Well, either way, this clears Panzer so if his wagon could kindly unvote, we need to lynch CC and then most likely xvart.

[TBuG]

confirming masonry. although i didnt want to out really. UNVOTE:

Your fault for suspecting your mason buddy. Well, either way, this clears Panzer so if his wagon could kindly unvote, we need to lynch CC and then most likely xvart.

my reasoning behind it was if he did die mafia couldn't easily call me out as mason buddy.

TRYING. TO. LYNCH. SOMEONE. WHO. YOU. KNOW. IS. TOWN. IS. ANTITOWN.

[TBuG]

If three more scum is a bit OP and you have a null read on me and scum reads on xvart and TheFool, why did you ISO Sundy instead of one of us three?