Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia (Game Over)

[Candle Jack]

VOTE: Starbuck

Let's hope there are no cults in this game.

And just exactly WHY are you bringing up cults D1?

Vote: Amrun

That's NOT a random vote.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Don't see GreyICE lying about that kind of ability, since it's confirmable if there are trackers/watchers. Doesn't necessarily mean he's town, but a point in his favor.

---

So the implication is that we have a watcher, tracker or both, perhaps rather than a finder, perhaps not. Interesting.

Really don't like this post. He's not *doing* anything.

FoS: drew

---

So the implication is that we have a watcher, tracker or both, perhaps rather than a finder, perhaps not. Interesting.

Not necessarily though. It was mentioned that this game might have some bastardish elements as long as he didn't lie to us...

vote: animorpherv1

RNG. I'll probably come down on one side or the other of this cult thing, depending on how Amrun explains it.

RNG during random stage is bad.

FoS: Antifinity

---

Vote: SpyreX

for not voting anyone. Also a serious vote.

Amrun's cult mention is horrible.

Since I don't like leaving RVS without a random vote I'll compromise with a

OMGUS FoS: drewoftherushes

Why SpyreX and not GreyICE or drewoftherushes, who are also not voting anyone?

---

Amrun needs more votes. Hop to it, people.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

VOTE: Starbuck

Let's hope there are no cults in this game.

And just exactly WHY are you bringing up cults D1?

Vote: Amrun

That's NOT a random vote.

- Tar

I assume a certain experience we both just suffered, and that Starbuck was included in. I'd launch into details, but it's not a mafia game that did not occur and that I certainly was never a part of.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this - from Amrun, mind you, I'm an old fan of "let the player answer before you speculate on their motives". Cult speculation is a BAD thing, townies shouldn't do it without a good reason (flipped cultist, claimed role that deals with cult, etc.).

Otherwise you get games like Mind Screw 3, where everyone's too busy hunting cult to hunt Mafia.

---

Vote: SpyreX

for not voting anyone. Also a serious vote.

Amrun's cult mention is horrible.

Since I don't like leaving RVS without a random vote I'll compromise with a

OMGUS FoS: drewoftherushes

Why SpyreX and not GreyICE or drewoftherushes, who are also not voting anyone?

drewoftherushes is voting someone, just not in that post. GreyICE at least did something to help the town in his post. Look at SpyreX's two posts and tell me how they were anything but complete fluff.

Oh right, drew was first post. Derp.

SpyreX is a) playing like SpyreX and b) offering reads.

Yeah that makes more sense GreyICE, I was struggling to understand why anyone who's ever played mafia before would say something like that >_>

Not impressed, looks like scum trying to appear like they're looking for information to me.

---

vote:Pomegranate

poor persephone

@antinfinity, why RNG?

fos: candlejack

not understanding the point on drew, reaching too much with amrun imo.

Forgot drew had first post.

About that Amrun voge... uh, some of us remember that cult speculation without a good reason is horribly, horribly scummy.

---

@CandleJack/Morph-
Opportunistic much?

@Anti/Ace-
Feeling the waters? Not liking these posts.

@GreyIce-
Please clarify if your claim is serious.
-If so, does your power ALSO prevent a watcher from seeing the ACTUAL culprit? (This should be a no-brainer to share if you're seriously claiming)
-Would your ability false track to protected and/or kill immune targets (ie. failed kill attempts)?

Opportunistic my foot, bringing up a cult without a stated reason is scummy as hell.

@Greyice-
How about you cut the crap and play the game? Flailing around randomly D1 like an idiot is just going to waste time and peg you for a useless VI. If you're scum, then keep it up, but if you're town, you're just going to hurt your credibility when you try to play seriously later. In either case, you're just setting yourself up as lynch bait (either as a mislynch or a sacrificial bus) and that's clearly not playing to your win con.

What on earth are you talking about? Obvious sarcasm =/= flailing around randomly.

Your posts = scumposting.

Amrun can wait.

Unvote, Vote: Kast

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

So the implication is that we have a watcher, tracker or both, perhaps rather than a finder, perhaps not. Interesting.

Really don't like this post. He's not *doing* anything.

FoS: drew

- Tar

Could you clarify here - who did I say was doing something?

Uh, in case you hadn't noticed, I was referring to you in the third person. See, you're just summarizing possibilities and not actually doing anything with that. In other words, you're not scumhunting. If you're town, change that. If you're not, keep acting like this so we can get to lynching you.

---

My phone is. About to die so I can't finish reading the thread, but I will say this:

The last time I played with Starbuck, she outted her own cult recruiter out of butthurt. It was such an egregious example of playing against wincon that she was warned and put on probation, iirc.

I have no personal problem with Starbuck, but that warrants an RVS warning that such things will not be tolerated a second time.

Why people actually thought I was talking about cults in a way unrelated to my vote on Starbuck I don't know, but Tar needs to explain why that's a scumtell and. When I can read I will analyze sheepers (ani comes to mind).

Okay, reasonable.

Since you missed it in my last post: Cult commentary is scummy (exception: claiming rolebased, which is null) because it's an easy way for scum to distract townies from lynching scum (see: Mind Screw 3, where Xyl et. al. had the town running around in circles looking for cult while they cruised into endgame with minor disruption from mod-Tar-SK and mod-mason-Veerus) and to fake scumhunting later.

---

SpyreX is b) offering reads.

Care to point out where?

SpyreX is still scummier but unfortunately he doesn't have a wagon so

Unvote, Vote: Kast

.

Maybe I have a condition where the combination of v o e t in the correct order causes me physical pain.
Maybe I'm an odd day treestump even day doublevig divisible by 10 jester.
Maybe I'm afraid to voet anyone because it will inevitably lead to the downfall of western civilization.

On a realer note.

Maybe its nice to see some town on page 1 and that makes me happy.

Sure looks like an indication that SpyreX is reading players town to me.

Next question?

---

So @CJ et al:

Here's the issue I'm bashing my head against:

GI claiming an interesting miller variant: Good
Kast asking for some fairly relevant clarifiaction: Good
GI's response to Kast: Whaaat?
Kast's response to GI: Whaaaat?

Now I'm lord of the scum teaparty paranoia but I can't see any avenue FROM THAT that isn't town/town feelings fight 2011. Scum on scum makes no sense and scum on town either way doesn't make a lot of sense.

Asking for clarification on the claim was a null tell, not a town tell.

Why on earth would people assume that GreyICE's allcaps "no, of course not" with that phrasing was anything other than a sarcastic response to Kast? Seriously, all it's missing is the "here's your sign" afterwards.

A Mafia 67 KScope-style sarcastic confession would be more plausible if it wasn't for that claim being suicidal if he doesn't actually have the ability.

---

Okay, read.

Lobster, why place an rvs vote and FoS someone in the same post?

Ani, why did you vote for me? Explain what you thought I was saying.

(Tar answered this question within the thread already.)

Kast, why did you call Grey a VI? What basis do you have for this?

Ace, why is two posts of supposed fluff a scumtell at this stage of the game?

Not really seeing the case on Kast yet, though I don't exactly like his posts, either.

i felt like i kinda missed rvs...and i wanted to participate too.

@candlejack, about amrun: i looked at it and was really confused too, i found it scummy, but they way you started to ask for votes before amrun came back to explain it came across as almost not caring what the explination was.

Why on earth wouldn't I push for Amrun votes? There was certainly no better target - that was the only genuinely scummy post at the time - and I could just back off Amrun later if there was a satisfactory reason for that post.

In other news, if you thought Amrun's post was scummy, why the hell didn't you mention that in any of your posts before this? Like, say, in the post where you FoS'ed me?

And as long as I'm here...

@Greyice-
How about you cut the crap and play the game? Flailing around randomly D1 like an idiot is just going to waste time and peg you for a useless VI. If you're scum, then keep it up, but if you're town, you're just going to hurt your credibility when you try to play seriously later. In either case, you're just setting yourself up as lynch bait (either as a mislynch or a sacrificial bus) and that's clearly not playing to your win con.

where has GI flailed around here or lost credibility? he claimed and sort of explained amrun's post. It seems to me you are trying to discredit GreyIce where there doesn't seem a need to be.

Trying to discredit a player is scum behavior. Why aren't you following up on this?

FoS: LobsterCatapult

---

Oh look, it's Wall of Text time.

@Ace-
The bold means exactly what it says. GreyICE is playing as a VI and instead of responding to the questions, he flips out and calls me scum. He's setting himself up to be lynched later:
-If he is town, then he's clearly not playing to his win con and just being a VI.
-If he is scum, then he's ALSO not playing to his win con

And just how, exactly, is he setting himself up to be lynched?

@Lobster-
Post #23 is the flailing. It has nothing to do with Amrun. GreyIce did something idiotic as town; but if he is serious town, then he can mitigate his crap-play by answering some simple questions that will help us avoid misinformation and evaluate future claims/actions/events.

Instead he flips out in ALL CAPS whining that I'm picking on his "false claim" and posting gibberish.

Let me get this straight. You're saying that claiming Miller on Day 1 is anti-town?

I'm also not seeing how you get a "flip out" from GreyICE's play. Looks like scum misrepresentation to me.

@Candlejack-
-The whole objection to the "cult speculation" is a load of BS. *IF* you genuinely thought it was an attempt to mislead the town, then you should have let Amrun dig a hole for himself. Voting as you did prevents us from getting anything valuable that could potentially have been gotten. In this case, the *IF* doesn't apply since it was obviously not anything near as meaningful or insidious as you pretend.
-About the Amrun vote, some of us remember that scum like attacking harmless jokes or greetings as if they are legit scum tells. Just like what you are doing.
-Since Amrun clearly wasn't bringing up a cult in any manner that was at all harmful, your defense is invalid.

Invalid defense MY FOOT. As far as I'm concerned, mentioning a cult AT ALL without a reason is anti-town. Certainly something worth voting for in late random vote stage. And I don't see a reason to stand aside and let Amrun "dig a hole" on the cult speculation matter when I could just pressure her and let her dig a hole with her reactions while ALSO shutting down anti-town speculation.

Also, some of us haven't forgotten that there was a time not all that far back when joking was a fairly reliable scumtell (It may still be, but I've been offsite long enough that I'm not sure), and that late RVS and the part of the game that comes immediately after it is a GREAT time to find scum letting their defenses down.

@Candlejack-
Is there a reason you are so paranoid and trying to make everyone else paranoid about Amrun? If you genuinely believe his comment is as harmful as you keep claiming, then there shouldn't be any reason to avoid explaining to the town why and how you think Amrun's comment could hurt us. Simply claiming "CULTS ARE TEH EVIL!!@!" doesn't cut it. Instead of just telling us Mind Screw 3 was horrible because of the cult speculation, tell us how Amrun's comment even minutely leads to what happened in Mind Screw 3.

Reminds me uncomfortably of, say, this post (sorry, SpyreX, I'll cut it out now):

The talking mod is disconcerting me.

Cults are fun. Scary, but fun. I used to have a perfect win record as cult on IRC, but then people caught on to the fact that I was the first one recruited every time there was a cult.

Assume we wouldn't have anything so sane as a normal cult. I hope that means it's weaker. Worst case, we already have three cultists.

Agreed on lynching the mod-SK immediately. Whatever "powers" Tar granted can't be good...

vote: Machiavellian-Mafia (Tarhalindur)

Jesters, SK, cult... survivor and lyncher should be next.

I wonder if we even have a mafia at all.

Basically, if there is a cult like Tar's previous one, there is now some action X such that:
* Doing X results in an immediate loss for the town, and win for the cult.
* There are an ever-increasing number of players who know what X is, and win if it happens.

For balance reasons, X would have to be something that the town would be fairly unlikely to do spontaneously, but could be persuaded into.

Until we know for sure what the cult win condition is, we should be very careful.

Absolutely no reason to allow this kind of speculation to distract people. And why the hell WOULDN'T I assume cult speculation when Amrun failed to make it clear that her reasoning was due to Starbuck's past actions as cult when she first posted?

She's probably town, but you're not.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

What is a RNG? never heard that term before or maybe i am rusty.

RNG. I used a random number generator for my first vote because I was in a hurry.
I'm convinced this cult-wagon-thing is nuts, and everyone involved is crazy.
The miller thing is more serious, and for flavor reasons, I'm inclined to believe it.
I'm going to put my less random vote on Candle Jack, for caring far too much

vote: Candle Jack

Candle Jack is my mason buddy. I get mad when you vote for my mason buddies. Who would you say is floating on the sidelines and needs serious pressure?

PEdit: Drew those questions were still noise designed to look town, they were stupid as SIN.

Care to explain exactly why you are

LYING

about being a Mason with me?

Unvote, Vote: GreyICE

[Candle Jack]

EBWOP: -Tar

[Candle Jack]

Masons now too? Why the hell would you out

that fact

for no good reason?

Unvote, Vote: GreyICE

Not buying it. Especially not after I spotted something earlier in the thread that makes me pretty sure Nocmen is town. (Not going to elaborate, that would be anti-town.)

*goes back to writing wall of text*

[Candle Jack]

Oh right, since GreyICE has indicated that his mason claim with me was a joke (a supremely anti-town joke, I should note - DON'T do it again) and the rest of his play indicates he's town, I need to unvote him now.

Masons now too? Why the hell would you out

that fact

for no good reason?

Unvote, Vote: GreyICE

i missed this too.

unvote
vote:nocmen

i cant see why town would automatically just take this at face value like this. coupled with his 2 scenarios post afterwards, i think its scummy.

Actually, better reason. I need to unvote GreyICE because you're scum and need to die.

Seriously, this is newbscum sheeping a good town player if I ever saw it.

Unvote, Vote: LobsterCatapult

[Candle Jack]

EBWOP: - Tar

[Candle Jack]

Oh right, since GreyICE has indicated that his mason claim with me was a joke (a supremely anti-town joke, I should note - DON'T do it again) and the rest of his play indicates he's town, I need to unvote him now.

Will not be taking this advice. Why was it anti-town to suggest that someone needs to put his vote somewhere useful?

It's not what you were trying to do, but how you did it. Savvy?

[Candle Jack]

EBWOP: Forgot the -Tar again.

[Candle Jack]

Oh, "the fact" thing is weak, but I still find Nocmen scummy otherwise.

Lobstersheep is very bad - torn between the two.

The more Amrun posts, the less town she looks. Only problem is, Stevie is pushing her... bussing?

Major FoS: Amrun

Oh right, since GreyICE has indicated that his mason claim with me was a joke (a supremely anti-town joke, I should note - DON'T do it again) and the rest of his play indicates he's town, I need to unvote him now.

Will not be taking this advice. Why was it anti-town to suggest that someone needs to put his vote somewhere useful?

It's not what you were trying to do, but how you did it. Savvy?

Not really. You're town I trust day 1 to the level that you might as well be a mason with me, I shan't be voting for you nor vocalizing such today. So it's like 50/50 joke/observation.

Stevie is a lot more scum than LC.

Bringing up cults is most definitely a scum tell, it is an attempt to derail the D1 discussion. And, even though it was "justified" as a mention of another game, that still was a (fairly successful) attempt to keep us talking about unimportant things. For that reason, I will

Vote: Amrun

. Also, pretty much all of Amrun's posts have been defending himself about this issue, besides one post where he calls the Kast wagon bad - again this is a large post count that really isn't contributing anything pro-town.

I'm not getting a really scummy read of Kast, but I don't think the wagon is completely unfounded, however I wouldn't like it to see it get out of hand.

FoS: GreyIce

for not answering legitimate questions. If you do not get on that it will turn into a vote. I have some questions for you myself:
Why did you choose to claim D1 being completely unprompted? Not that this is necessarily a scum tell I simply don't get your motivation.
Why did you claim your role power without claiming what character you were?

Town gains nothing by rushing for a quick lynch. Also you really haven't offered any significant criticisms of Kast, besides your sarcastic responses and posting about how much you want him lynched.

unvote, vote: GreyIce

Multiple posts, still hasn't answered the many legitimate and direct questions. Instead he did a pointless fake sarcastic claim which serves no purpose. Answer the questions, defend yourself against the points against you. Ignoring them is a sure route to getting lynched. You are doing a good job of scumhunting, and made a good point about Pomegrant's fos and vote. However, ignoring everyone who is criticizing you is very scummy.

As for Amrun, what he did is a scumtell. I'm quite sick of this debate but I believe its a scum tell, and worth a vote at that stage of the game. Not everyone in this game agrees with this, and frankly its been debated to death so I'm going to try and move past it. His recent posts have been good.

This is called the difference between 'looking for scum' and 'looking for things you can call scummy.' This is 100% the latter, and he's already claimed he knows what he's doing and is not a noob with a list of wiki shit.

Your vote would be a LOT more productive on this scumbag.

Was rereading Mafia 92 - most informative game that, Stevie got recruited there. Also, I missed this post while I was RAEGing about Kast.

Bringing up cults is most definitely a scum tell, it is an attempt to derail the D1 discussion. And, even though it was "justified" as a mention of another game, that still was a (fairly successful) attempt to keep us talking about unimportant things. For that reason, I will

Vote: Amrun

. Also, pretty much all of Amrun's posts have been defending himself about this issue, besides one post where he calls the Kast wagon bad - again this is a large post count that really isn't contributing anything pro-town.

I'm not getting a really scummy read of Kast, but I don't think the wagon is completely unfounded, however I wouldn't like it to see it get out of hand.

What is a RNG? never heard that term before or maybe i am rusty.

FoS: GreyIce

for not answering legitimate questions. If you do not get on that it will turn into a vote. I have some questions for you myself:
Why did you choose to claim D1 being completely unprompted? Not that this is necessarily a scum tell I simply don't get your motivation.
Why did you claim your role power without claiming what character you were?


On a completely unrelated note, I will be going to the beach this thursday and friday so I will not post on either of those days.

Steve

That's what I get for skimming over that post. Look at that wishy-washy reaction to Kast. You're right, he's scum, let's run him up.

Unvote, Vote: StevieT92

---

Short form of my current thoughts on Kast: Playstyle is 180 degrees off of the rest of the game (and he's the kind of player who will attack for not following preferred playstyle - I know, I know, that's pot meet kettle coming from me). His reads are also very, very wrong. However, he's actually scumhunting and probably town.

---

Ludi, where are you? My eyes are starting to glaze over here, I want some fresh insight.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

SpyreX - I got nothing. Which is worrisome.

--

Vote Count: Looks like our mod didn't notice that Stevie screwed up his quote tags. Which means somebody else needs to vote Stevie so we can ask him to supplement his bad defense with a claim.

---

FoS: Candlejack

for jumping onto LobsterCatapult and then jumping onto me. Not an OMGUS: i hadn't posted in between your voting, so if you had intended to vote me then why didn't you just do that?

Because GreyICE made a good point and I had time to look back over Mafia 92 in the meantime.

---

Starbuck's posts last page are worrying me to no end. Not sure why.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Hey tajo!

Where the hell did Stevie go? I want to see him respond to a 9-vote wagon. I also have no intention of derailing that wagon (barring SpyreX stuff) until he's either convinced me he's town with responses to wagon/a case against a player who actually has a decent chance of flipping scum (hint: that means not Nocmen). I could go after ace, I suppose, but I'd rather not unless/until Stevie starts posting again. So, I really don't have much to say right now.

Kast: Here's my problem. I'd rather not turn D1 into another Mafia 87 D1, and you've convinced me you're probably town even if your playstyle is 180 degrees off from the dominant town playstyle in this game (SpyreX/GreyICE/self). So I'm a bit loathe to post my wall of text rebutting your playstyle when I don't want to turn today into Tar vs. Kast. As for the playstyle shift... that has a lot more to do with a combination of decreased time and a different shift in game events.

Also, here's an assignment for you, Kise: Look at Medieval Mafia, Mafia 75, Mini Theme 778 (Inventor), Webcomic Wars. I play endgame just fine, thank you very much. (With the occasional exception, ala Mafia 104).

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Alrighty time to get back in the saddle after the crazy day.

First things first:

Enough people have posted that I've got no problem outing the whole deal:

Right before that VC, I got a PM saying something was intruding into my mind. Combine that with the paranoia of the VC error AND being tired and you get farther fetched ideas roaming around like it being a placement swap.

As it sits, I'm thinking that was a scum rolecop or something of that nature. I'd be flabbergasted if it was a town action.

I want this wagon to go through. Like I said I've claimed hammertime and dont think I'm gonna him and haw or wait for a claim for it.

----

On the other side and I'll quantify (or try where applicable) some of these reads but on the short list: ace, zel1nk, LC.

On the more awesome list: CJ, GI, Amrun, Kast, Tajo

I can think of about three Evangelion characters that might fit that flavor. Every last one is an Angel. Yeah, I'd say that's a scum ability. If I had to guess, I'd say it's Arael - that PM fits Arael (who raped Asuka's mind in series) better than Leliel (mind-examining void) or Bardiel (Eva hijacker), and that scene is iconic enough that I'd expect Arael in the game in some fashion.

----

Okay, this Nocmen lunacy needs to be nipped in the bud.

Why the hell would you think this? That's absolutely, completely 100% against everything I posted. Your posts show you are capable of giving good town play, but despite being capable of it you are NOT giving it (ie. you are probably not town).

At risk of answering for another player, there are two kinds of players that tend to play below capacity. One of those categories is Mafia. Given something I spotted earlier in the thread, however, I'm pretty sure that Nocmen instead fits firmly into the second category, especially since that second possibility is also a very good explanation for another thing that Nocmen has done this game (and a bit of mod meta negates the most obvious objection to that possible explanation) - and that second category is very, very firmly town.

Get the hell off Nocmen, folks - and don't even think about vigging him. I'll reconsider this stance if and only if it becomes clear that what I'm seeing is invalid.

Elaborating would be anti-town at this time. I'll explain if and when elaborating would no longer be anti-town.

Also, Kast: That @Kise earlier was a typo, it was meant for you.

[Candle Jack]

ITT I have a gay boyfriend <3

Interested in hearing what Stevie has to say, but stop with the Stevie votes. Nocmen votes are sooo much sexier.

Two giant, gaping problems with this post.

1) "Interested in hearing" but "stop Stevie votes". Yeah no, that's scum trying to stop the wagon/positioning for the bus if I ever saw it. (Ironically, she's not 100% wrong about stopping Stevie votes

2) More importantly, Amrun just made it abundantly clear that she doesn't actually care about Nocmen's alignment - she just wants him lynched. That's not town behavior.

If it wasn't for the fact I don't want the Stevie wagon to die without further Stevie posts (preferably including a claim), I would be voting Amrun right now. As it is,

HoS with extreme prejudice: Amrun

---

In other news, nobody else vote for Stevie until he's posted at least once more (or lurked to the point of needing replacement).

Stevie: There are more than 10 players alive. You are at L-2 There is a player who has promised to hammer should you reach L-1. Claim or else.

---

Where the hell are ani and malthusis?

Mod: Prods for animorpherv1 and malthusis, please.

[Candle Jack]

I'm not going to claim until the 8 or so players who haven't really posted or just got subbed into the game post their thoughts.

Reason being?

Reason being that there are a lot of them. I want to see what the have to say before i claim.

@spyrex please show me some respect and don't lynch me before i claim. I will claim.

Sounds an awful lot like "Hey, maybe the lurkers can be a distraction! Even if they don't distract people from my wagon, they'll still buy me time to make up my falseclaim..." to me. And that's not even mentioning the possibility of fishing for information to make a better falseclaim with... and the fact that I suspect scum have daytalk...

More to the point, you were told to claim or else and refused to claim. That means it's time for the "or else". Since I don't really want to lynch you without a claim, I'll give you a second chance to rectify your error. However, if you do not claim by Tuesday morning, I will support a hammer without a claim.

Confirm Vote: StevieT92

[Candle Jack]

Hello all! I'm Magister Ludi (the silent half!) and I finally have time to post.

~~~~~~

He also seems to ignore defending himself, which makes more sense for a townie player then a scum player.

I also have good gut feeling that this is probably a mislynch, but unless Stevie has one hell of a claim (and now, don't do any retarded stalling!) I won't mind him being lynched at all.

This is simply a terrible post, and not one I actually expect to come from someone with a town aligned win condition. Saying someone might be a mislynch obviously implies that you think he is town, yet you push for lynching him anyway, even though you hope and suspect he might have some hell of a claim! This line of thinking is incredibly scummy.

As town, you want to get as many town (hopefully mutual) reads as possible, not vote any of them, and collaborate and hunt down the scum that way.

~~~~~~

Lobstercatapult is also my suspicion. In general, the play has seemed too forced, netural and attempted analytical. (and among other things, Its a feeling one gets from an entire subset of posts of not being protown)

1.

I think you being on Stevie's wagon is trying to get you townie points if stevie flips town, if not (unlikely) you can always refer to your post that you ISOed him for, and be like. seriously, he was looking this scummy, this is how i got my vote. i

in fact, the only thing that i can think of that would weaken you being scum in my mind is amrun looking so scummy.

(This was aimed at nocmen) This is an example of too many conditionals (you aren't scum because X is way scummier!), weak and vieled threats based on possible flips (if stevie flips town then you were trying to get townie points!).

It is not consice and ordered. I have found direct statements usually come from town, wishy washy accusations from scum.

2.

Another quote

"im not against quicklynching, but when a wagon does materlize this quickly on d1, i will definitely suspect there is some distancing/bussing/crap votes on it. like yours, and ill have to look into others."

This is far too blanket a statement to make, leaving room to make accusations at anyone on this wagon, or actually off it. The threat of a vote is leveled against people who may be bussing, (without actually describing really in detail what led him to this to convince anyone of his convictions), and those who aren't on the wagon but are distancing! Plus we have thinly vieled threats against amrun and 'others'.

3.

"why is stevie a mislynch?"

This reply (to kast), one of the only one really detailed with the stevie wagon despite stevie being so close to lynch, seems to imply subtly that lobster thinks stevie might be scum (I paraphrase it as, "why are you saying stevie is town, he seems scum to me").

Lobsters play today has been almost textbook scum, vote away from the large wagon, fail to mention it, Fos strongly someone not your vote, and try and slip through the day.

~~~~~

[Candle Jack]

(Gathering thoughts on other players as well. Should be slower than usual, considering Tar has already detailed some and I'm in agreement 99% of the time)

Yeah, he has mentioned the Stevie wagon, but in a weak manner and earlier in his bracket of posting here today, the only direct mention of him from ~his last 10 posts is a one sentence bullet point saying he thinks Nocmen is scummier than all else (which seems wrong as I get the impression he suspects amrun heavily)

All other mentions are in relation to how other people are interacting with stevie, and thats a very convenient way to avoid saying much. I'd expect a pointed reasoning along the lines of, Stevie is not scum because of A,B,C (if thats what he actually believes), Nocmen is scum because of G,D,E, and these suspicions clearly show why stevie is a bad lynch. An attempt to convince town.

Mostly, his vote is a langushing vote on Nocmen.

[Candle Jack]

FUCK WRONG ACCOUNT.

Unvote

[Candle Jack]

Sorry about the outburst above, REALLY need to think about likelihood of Rei being a safeclaim.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

And yeah, Rei's one of the 3 main characters, and an extremely popular one.

It's conceivable, if a longshot, that she could be scum, since she's a vessel for an Angel. She could also be a fakeclaim for someone like Kaworu, since they're both vessels for Angels, but he's a 3rd party one and she's pretty much town, albeit with blue and orange morality.

Also, nameclaim of a major character + refusal to fullclaim suggests a safeclaim.Though, Tar seems to think there is a good reason to unvote, so Stevie should NOT be hammered until Tar has elaborated.

Note: Not a reason to believe so much as I've been reading through past Kdub games lately and tend to be very good at setup analysis.

I do, however, have my doubts that Rei would be used as a safeclaim.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Doesn't even need to be a safeclaim, Tar.

The flavor means nothing in this game, and in the mod rule set, it directly states that nothing can be speculated about the setup from the role flavor.

Kdub's Star Wars and Square Enix: the Outsiders, at least, had the same clauses, and the thought process I'm using would have worked quite well in the former (possible exception: Chewbacca in Star Wars... but only a possible exception) and doesn't apply to the latter.

Besides, Stevie has added on a power softclaim, and past experience suggests that IS town reasoning for not claiming (should have dropped it earlier, Stevie).

Let me recalibrate my scumdar.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Yeah lynching a Rei claim day 1 is dumb. I don't think you need to go into intense setup speculation to figure out that lynching a claim of the most popular character in the source material right at the start of the game is stupid. He shouldn't claim his ability right now if scum knowing the ability lessens it's effect.

Looks like a gratuitous newbscum barn of strong town players to me.

Vote: ace5993

[Candle Jack]

Popular, I detailed my (our) suspicion of Lobster a few posts ago. I think he is likely scum, as is malthusis.

[Candle Jack]

candlejack, volkan, spyrex, ladylambadelta and iec

thoughts of lobster in following post pretty plz

There's a reason I briefly pushed for a Lobster wagon before shifting to the Stevie wagon. I'm not as sure about it as I once was, however (some posts in the last couple of pages have me second-guessing).

Let me take a second look, I've been a bit lazy on iso reading lately.

Siiighh. That phraseology oozes a specific role that kind of makes sense with the claim.

I'm willing to give it a tiny bit but I guarantee I know this will end inevitably with a rope.

My gut (and its JUST gut) says one of the main 3 characters are going to be a fakeclaim but we'll see.

@tajo:

On the other side and I'll quantify (or try where applicable) some of these reads but on the short list: ace, zel1nk, LC.

Nocmen wouldn't be a bad vig at this point.

I'd prefer ace to LC buttttt I was thinking ace far more as a defender of scum-stewie the mechapowerrole. It could be just running shield for town-stewie though.

SpyreX: Why aren't you reading the thread? There's two things here that make no sense if you've been reading the thread.

---

*notes "mechapowerrole* for personal reference*

Lemme check our notes. There's about 5-6 players who are pinging scumdar and I have no idea which to go after (especially since Ludi reads Ace 418 as VI rather than scum).

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

SpyreX: Why aren't you reading the thread? There's two things here that make no sense if you've been reading the thread.

---

*notes "mechapowerrole* for personal reference*

Lemme check our notes. There's about 5-6 players who are pinging scumdar and I have no idea which to go after (especially since Ludi reads Ace 418 as VI rather than scum).

- Tar

Admittedly I skimmed from being gone quite a bit but I don't think I missed anything that huge?

I saw stewies claim and the way he claimed it AND the name he claimed makes me think of a very specific role.

What parts are the issue in case I DID miss something or worded something poorly, which could very well be.

Ace-Stevie was supposed to be, but that's because I was mixing up Amrun and Ace for some reason. Doh. (Note to self: If mechs are roles - and that's an if there - then does Stevie know something about this?)

Other involves your poor choice in vigging targets.

---

Also, since Ludi thinks our Ace vote is poorly placed:

Unvote, Vote: LobsterCatapult

It's a tossup between Amrun and LC, so I'll park the vote here while I look at both.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

There's just something about Stevie's playstyle that seems to really clash with playstyle scum should have. Normally scum either stay in the weeds and try to appear inconspicious, or try to appear really pro-town to help manipulate lynches. Stevie seems to have tried to be helpful to the town by trying to making a case on someone, but seemed to trip on his own feet somewhere in saying it. If he was scum, why wouldn't have he just backed away as soon as he started messing up instead of just making more mistakes? He also seems to ignore defending himself, which makes more sense for a townie player then a scum player.

I also have good gut feeling that this is probably a mislynch, but unless Stevie has one hell of a claim (and now, don't do any retarded stalling!) I won't mind him being lynched at all.

Oh right I nearly forgot about this post. And malthusis being in this game in general, which is a bad thing.

Fellow 'Scummers, I played with malthusis-town. I modded malthusis-town. I know malthusis-town. malthusis, you're not malthusis-town.

And that, of course, means that you are scum. Especially given that last sentence (gut town read but wouldn't mind seeing player lynched my foot).

Unvote, Vote: malthusis

[Candle Jack]

Hmmm ok I feel better about you no vigs would be good.

Here's the thing though:

The last post? It only makes sense for scum-ace in the two scenarios I talked about before - scum-stewie the PR needing to live or white knighting the hell out of a mislynch for cred.

I can't see white knighting this early in a large.

Why not? Maybe site meta changed during a year's break, but last I checked "don't end the day" tended to be a scum argument. Had a lot to do with extra discussion after a lynch was decided being unproductive and confusing town.

[Candle Jack]

Protown block is a good idea. I have town reads on all these players.

I think it would be best served used to destroy scum suspect number one Malthusis or two Lobster. If you think there is a better option I could consider that as well.

[Candle Jack]

Malth:

Also votes for Grey like I did following the mason claim.


Calls out Stevie for stalling.


However, the main piece of suspicion (besides the lack of posts) is the fact that he calls Stevie "probably a mislynch", but wouldnt care if he got lynched. Not liking that.

I want to hear a lot more regarding his opinions on others this game.

Uh-oh. Is that post saying what I think it is? It might explain lurky malthusis...

Maybe not, given that third sentence (though note the "not liking" wording), but I'm not taking chances.

Unvote

for now. Let me look for a second target.

---

In other news, voting block is good. Though we should definitely consider adding Nocmen.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Vote: LobsterC

[Candle Jack]

Locked and loaded boys.

[Candle Jack]

Okay, I hate to piss on everyone's party, because I love this alliance, but I'm smelling town off LC. Not to toot my own horn, but I've seen scum LC before, called him midway through day 1 in SHR and this just ain't it.

My number one problem with LC was that his vote was sitting orphened on Malthusis (who had given me no reason to think he was town so it wasn't a terribad vote) until Mathusis started to build noise then he moved it over to Amrun. However, if we assume Malthusis is town, there's no scum motivation behind that move, and suddenly LC gets a whole lot less scummy for me. Besides which I think the reasoning in ISO #4,5, and 16 feels somewhat town.

I'd rather see a wagon on Amrun, or failing that do another reread with new info.

And why do you think Malth is town?

Wait, WHAT?!

Nocmen: What is your opinion on a malthusis lynch?

HoS: malthusis

, may shift to vote depending on response.

[Candle Jack]

You are misinterpreting him, I think, CJ.

Possibly so. I still want clarification.

[Candle Jack]

Let's hear you claim, Lobster.

I really hate it when scummy-as-shit townies have really good claims (especially when there's more than one running around). I hate it more when they don't improve after pressure.

I'm still leaning towards dealing with him tomorrow if necessary (though vigging the hell out of him tonight would be just fine by me). That said, I'll throw him back into the pool of "players I'm willing to lynch today", though only grudgingly so.

---

Something is amiss.

LobsterCatapult, how much experience do you have with Evangelion? Serious question here.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

As wrong as I think Surye's reads are, bad reads does not necessarily mean scum (if it did, Kast would have been hanged ten pages ago) and that reads post has one thing in it that makes me think Surye is probably town.

Besides, this doesn't look like the Suryescum I remember (granted, that was a few years back, but still).

Still want LC to answer my question on his level of Evangelion knowledge.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

LC, I have asked you about your level of knowledge of Evangelion. Respond or else.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

LC, I have asked you about your level of knowledge of Evangelion. Respond or else.

- Tar

sorry must have missed that

i watched the anime (or most episodes) a long time ago. i remember rei, shinji and asuka were the main characters/eva users and worked for nerv the like, preventers of the attacks on neo-tokyo. i remember other angels coming down and attacking tokyo and they fought them. i remember it was really confusing, shinji has serious daddy issues, and the ending was weird monlogues then like a party or something. i remember i liked the major girl with the long dark hair who got drunk a bunch. kisuragi? rei was pretty unemotional, shinji whined all the time, and asuka was aggro. remember asuka was randomly in a bathtub in a destroyed house.

so i dont remember too much other than random details and the really main characters, and the begining plot.

I see. Followup question:

Yeah lynching

a Rei claim

day 1 is dumb. I don't think you need to go into intense setup speculation to figure out that lynching a claim of the most popular character in the source material right at the start of the game is stupid. He shouldn't claim his ability right now if scum knowing the ability lessens it's effect.

and i think him being so vehement on not lynching "

a rei

" d1 could be determental

Note the difference in the bolded parts of the above posts. Lobster: Is this difference intentional?

(Yes, this is going somewhere.)

[Candle Jack]

LC, I have asked you about your level of knowledge of Evangelion. Respond or else.

- Tar

sorry must have missed that

i watched the anime (or most episodes) a long time ago. i remember rei, shinji and asuka were the main characters/eva users and worked for nerv the like, preventers of the attacks on neo-tokyo. i remember other angels coming down and attacking tokyo and they fought them. i remember it was really confusing, shinji has serious daddy issues, and the ending was weird monlogues then like a party or something. i remember i liked the major girl with the long dark hair who got drunk a bunch. kisuragi? rei was pretty unemotional, shinji whined all the time, and asuka was aggro. remember asuka was randomly in a bathtub in a destroyed house.

so i dont remember too much other than random details and the really main characters, and the begining plot.

I see. Followup question:

Yeah lynching

a Rei claim

day 1 is dumb. I don't think you need to go into intense setup speculation to figure out that lynching a claim of the most popular character in the source material right at the start of the game is stupid. He shouldn't claim his ability right now if scum knowing the ability lessens it's effect.

and i think him being so vehement on not lynching "

a rei

" d1 could be determental

Note the difference in the bolded parts of the above posts. Lobster: Is this difference intentional?

(Yes, this is going somewhere.)

well, to me, stevie could have claimed either one of the most popular characters, like asuka, shinji or rei, and i still would have questioned it since i think even the most popular roles that are town aligned could be a safeclaim. i think automatically ruling them out of a safeclaim could be deterimental to town because we need to think about his pots, his case, how he claimed, in conjunction to the claim itself to really critically think. to rule out that rei could be a safeclaim would be not thinking about all the angles.

um, after writing this, i realized i prolly misread what you were asking. it wasn't intentional, i dont remember why i left out the word claim. it was either because stevie wasn't/isn't confirmed to be rei, or i was lazy. probably both.

Okay, good to know.

I'd rather not explain exactly what sparked this exchange just yet. Let me mull.

On the other hand, LC's defense of his wagon is looking increasingly newbtown to me.

And since I think the hydra should be moving off LC anyways, let's throw a vote out there that I think will be the most productive one we can throw down. Amrun wagon needs to happen. (Not 100% on Amrun being scum, but 100% on being informative.)

Unvote, Vote: Amrun

[Candle Jack]

Post 663 blows my town read on Kast to hell and back.

Once I get more time (hopefully later tonight) I need to go back over him with a fine-tooth comb.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

@Spyrex-
I'd guess scum exist within the bloc in the same ratio that they exist in any randomly selected sample of players. I don't have any particular scum reads on individual members of your/LLD's proclaimed town bloc; most of you have been playing in a pretty neutral/null range.

I specifically named LLD because she is blatantly exemplifying all the negative aspects of any self-declared townie-voting-bloc and is one of the ardent attack dogs of anyone who even hints at disagreement. I'm specifically addressing LLD more in depth than others because she posted a blatantly untrue and clearly unthought through WTF?!?! dismissal of my catch up post. Then instead of being honest and admitting her mistake, she tried pushing BS misrepresentations and anti-town stalling/distractions.

Does that mean she is scum? Not necessarily. She certainly hasn't been as scummy as ace, LC, Noc, or Malthusis. What I've pointed out is more secondary tells; identification of what could potentially be scummy behavior but does not in and of itself indicate that LLD is particularly likely to be scum. I also want to be clear that LLD is NOT the sole participant in such behavior. Part of my focus on LLD is simply a penchant for engaging people who try to engage with BS.

That reminds me to post/update my lynch preference ordering (entries within each heading do not indicate ordinal preference)

Preferred Lynch:

Nocmen
ace5993
LobsterCatapult
malthusis

Acceptable Lynch:

Candle Jack
Lady Lambdadelta
drewoftherushes

Ambivalent:

GreyICE
Antifinity
populartajo
Kawaii
Surye
Celebloki
ZeL1nK
Pomegranate
GhostWriter

Beats No Lynch:

vollkan
SpyreX
Iecerint
Starbuck
Amrun
StevieT92

Loses to No Lynch:

If you have anyone in this category other than yourself or perhaps a mason buddy, then you're failing at mafia

Kast

P-Edit: @LC-
You are assigning a lot of motive to my posts that just isn't there and just isn't supported by what I've actually posted.
I'll try to take some time tomorrow to re-outline my reasons for suspecting you. At the moment, it's pretty similar to the thoughts I originally listed for why I listed you as probable scum. If you have an objection with me listing you as scum, please address the reasons I provided.

This post was not made by a townie.

Sadly, I'm low on time at the moment, so the full case on Kast will have to wait. Some of the points: the continued attempts to discredit ANY alternative playstyle, particularly when his playstyle is clearly in the minority and most of the players he's attacking for alternative playstyle are obvtown, is scummy as all hell. That kind of list posted above looks like a scum list of reads to me (flashes of Medieval Mafia). And Kast's continued push on Nocmen has reached the point where I'm convinced that he doesn't actually care about Nocmen's alignment. And that's not even a complete list.

Voting block, it's dogpiling time.

Unvote, Vote: Kast

[Candle Jack]

- Tar

(I keep forgetting this is the hydra account, I've had no reason to log in with main for a few days.)

[Candle Jack]

@Noc-
I looked back at my list this morning and couldn't recall why drew was in that category in the first place. I moved him to reflect that.

@GreyICE-

that anyone who vocally disagrees with you and criticizes your reads or play is suffering from a 'bruised ego' / 'is a bad player' / 'is arrogant' / 'doesn't like being taken down a peg.' This is from our first disagreement on page 1.

If by anyone, you mean GreyICE and Candlejack, then you are correct that I have criticized this many times. It stands as true now as it did when I first posted it. If you are extending this to multiple other players, then please back up your claim.

CJ has been the primary player using the crap-logic tack that anyone disagreeing with him is scum (I was his sole exception that he tried milking for credit, until now).

Uh, really now? ANYONE who disagrees? Nocmen case maybe, but that's because I'm pretty confident on that Nocmen tell and the downside is large enough that it goes through over my dead body*. Other than that, I don't see it. Examples, please.

@CJ-
-Disagreeing with someone's playstyle is not a scumtell. If you dislike my criticism of your playstyle, how about addressing my criticisms instead of just saying "anyone who questions me is scum".

Strawman. The core problems I have with you are very, very simple: You are attempting to discredit obvtown players and distracting the town from actual scumhunting by focusing attention on the voting bloc (which I'm pretty sure has fewer scum than you'd get by random distribution of the block). Both are scum behavior. Hell, even on the "criticism of players" front I find your interactions with GreyICE much, much worse than your interactions with me - note that I had a town read on you until the point that you started attacking the voting block the way you did.

-Clarify what you dislike about my list of reads (aside from your irrational devotion to Noc). How does it look like a scum list? Content, format, timing, consistency...?

Hard to clarify a gut read, though I'm pretty sure the list of players in the "ambivalent" category has a lot to do with it.

-Calling me scummy for

disagreeing

with your townread that you've claimed is based on spotting a tell/crumb/softclaim is ridiculous. If you think any of the points on Noc are bad, then address those. As yet, you've gone from saying you saw something that shows Noc is town, to just saying Noc is obv-town, to saying anyone who even suspects Noc is scummy for suspecting him.

I'm not going to address your points, because your points are currently IRRELEVANT.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Its good to have SpyreX alive in a game!

~~~

Kawaii, vollkan, Starbuck, drew, malth, lobster: Your votes are best served elsewhere (or somewhere)

I'm behind the Kast wagon as well. I'll give some original shinning thoughts on the matter, but I agree with most of what has been said. The only thing that might be worrisome is the fact the wagon is growing like a bacteria colony, five votes on this page while other wagons were much slower off the ground.

~~~

The walls are coming. Less walls people.

[Candle Jack]

Kast is at L-2.

Hold the F up.

Unvote

[Candle Jack]

I unvote for a second, and this wagon churns to a screeching halt.

Vote: Kast

SpyreX, I think its ok to hop on.

[Candle Jack]

I still shake my head about this but whatever it takes.

Unvote, Vote: Kast

By my count, Kast is still at L-1. Comments on that given your early breadcrumbs, SpyreX?

Unvote

(Goes back to writing other post.)

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Why in the hell is this thread so dead?

Because I'm still getting my thoughts together.

Also, I keep forgetting to talk in thread after posting in the hydra QT. >.<

---

See this guys?

THIS exemplifies what I expected to happen. Look at whats going on here.

I fail to see how this reaction is a bad thing - the possibility of such a reaction was the secondary reason behind my vote.

One thing I AM quite confident on now - Kast KNOWS that he's not a member of the only Mafia faction (this explains both his defensiveness and his scumhunting, which still reads fairly genuine to me). Whether this is due to being town (unlikely), neutral (entirely possible, Kast's play fits SK very very well), or a multiscum setup* (entirely possible) is an open question - I'm pretty sure it's one of the latter two possibilities given his play.

What's more, most of the Mafia faction Kast isn't in is on the wagon (mostly if not entirely late).

I would still rather lynch Kast than any of the players on the wagon - he's scummy as hell, and I'd be SORELY tempted to policy lynch to ensure no further damage to the town from him even if I had a town read on him.

* - Multiscum speculation really should be in the same category as [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] speculation - don't do it unless there's reason to suspect it - but I've seen too many townies do so to actually go after it. Of course, in this case it doesn't matter, because I know that there's this number 3 running around and I suspect it's a hint to the number of factions - especially given Kdub mod meta in Large Themes. I will not elaborate prior to massclaim.

I, at least, would like to see a claim from Kast prior to lynching him.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

By my count, Kast is still at L-1. Comments on that given your early breadcrumbs, SpyreX?

Breadcrumbs?

Lack of early voting, calling the SpyreX hammer, plus the following (usually I'd call it a joke but given that I remember you being vote-happier than you are here I figured there was something to it):

Maybe I have a condition where the combination of v o e t in the correct order causes me physical pain.
Maybe I'm an odd day treestump even day doublevig divisible by 10 jester.
Maybe I'm afraid to voet anyone because it will inevitably lead to the downfall of western civilization.

On a realer note.

Maybe its nice to see some town on page 1 and that makes me happy.

I fail to see how this reaction is a bad thing - the possibility of such a reaction was the secondary reason behind my vote.

Which is all well and good but:

Kast (9) - Lady Lambdadelta, GreyICE, Antifinity, Iecerint, GhostWriter,

StevieT92

, LobsterCatapult, populartajo,

ace5993

See those, together? That's the teaparty. They play slappywags but when the chips are down look which way it goes.

Nonono - what I'm saying is that my secondary motivation for the Kast wagon was because I WANTED to see whether a couple of players (LC, Stevie, ace, etc.) jumped on the wagon.

It's really interesting seeing which players immediately took to the fence on Kast (vollkan, Celebloki, malthusis) and which ones piled on late (LC, Stevie, ace). REALLY interesting that. Especially in light of my last comment. I should probably get around to tabulating who has which reaction.

---

In other news, CJ heads would like to make sure that this day doesn't end before Tar/Ludi can come to a consensus about certain matters unrelated to the list.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

EBWOP: Herp derp quote tag fail.

- Tar

Fixed

[Candle Jack]

Oh damn, wrong account.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Unvote

As far as I'm concerned, Kast is now confirmed town. GreyICE: Unvote him in your next post or die.

Claim: Magi supercomputer

There are in fact three Magi supercomputers in the game (remember that mysterious number 3 I mentioned earlier?). We were already confirmed town, but thanks for reinforcing us. Our ability class should be fairly obvious.

At this point, D1 massclaim is an option that should be considered (Tar + confirmed town + alive at massclaim is generally extremely good for town).

[Candle Jack]

EBWOP: - Tar

>.<

[Candle Jack]

No, Stevie is still not the lynch for today. Though him and Kast have both been playing in what I would describe as an anti-town manner, their abilities are potentially exceedingly useful, and town needs them for that.

I'm interested in seeing how this Kast wagon disperses.

Its going to disperse when each person takes their vote off as soon as possible. Not doing so is basically claiming scum in thread.

Vote: Malthusis

[Candle Jack]

I am Misato Katsuragi, Action-Immune One-Shot Vigilante.

My abilities are:
Airstrike (Kill) - As the commander of tactical operations, you can call in an airstrike to bombard enemy targets. During night phases, you may attempt to kill another player. You may only use this ability once during the game.

Lost (Action Immunity) - You do not possess a very good sense of direction, and get lost easily in the corridors of Nerv HQ. Though you maintain radio contact with other personnel, nobody can seem to locate you when needed. Any active abilities that target you, either directly or indirectly, will be unsuccessful. This is a passive ability.

DIE DIE DIE MR. SCUMCLAIM WHOSE CLAIMED ROLENAME IS THE MOST LIKELY SAFECLAIM IN THE ENTIRE GAME IMO.

Seriously, untargetable + vig + Misato = no mercy.

Confirm Vote

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Wait, there is optimal play for dealing with claimed vig so I now have a better plan for dealing with Scumthusis. (Unless my gut is right and malthusis just earned himself a modkill.)

We let Malthusis live for one day. He targets Stevie tonight (if Stevie's ability is anything like what I think it is, this should be for the best). THEN we lynch malthusis unless something more important comes up (and if somebody other than Stevie is mysteriously dead then nothing more important will come up).

In the meantime, we find the actual target for the day. Ace or LC, I think.

Unvote, HoS: malthusis

for now.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Still loathe to kill Rei, and I think I know what he's claiming, but a double check won't go amiss so here's a compromise position:

Stevie, please identify your role class (manipulative, protective, investigative, killing, or special action; manipulative modifies one or more target players' actions, protective modifies actions targeting one or more players, special actions). This should still prevent scum from knowing what your role does.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Still loathe to kill Rei, and I think I know what he's claiming, but a double check won't go amiss so here's a compromise position:

Stevie, please identify your role class (manipulative, protective, investigative, killing, or special action; manipulative modifies one or more target players' actions, protective modifies actions targeting one or more players, special actions). This should still prevent scum from knowing what your role does.

- Tar

Hey Tar, new flavor of the week is 'lets not let the town learn anything from roles, trololol.' Like, scum with a dayvig ability, scum with tracking, scum with all sorts of random shit.

That's not news to me - I'm one of the mods who STARTED that trend (*COUGHMINDSCREWCOUGH*). You can still ma

We've had three fucking claims that make everyone go "no lets unvote."|

I do not for one millisecond believe that all three players who claimed are town. One. Millisecond. The odds that all three claims are town who just happen to have really confirmable roles and are ALSO playing similar to scum are 0. ZERO.

This is downright role fishing with wagons at this point. Kast has some complex ability that

can't

go to scum, obv obv obv, so he's not scum despite playing just like it. Stevie has a nifty fakeclaim that he didn't even claim so he must be town, trololol. Malthusis claimed FUCKING BULLETPROOF VIGILANTE. And lets unvote, trololol.

Yeah this ain't three townies. I wouldn't be surprised if it ain't ONE townie.

Agree.

Protip: malthusis's claim is 99% lie. I made that clear early on (though I forgot to note that the ability doesn't fit flavor even setting aside issues of Misato being the single most likely safeclaim in the game by my reckoning). However, stock play with 1-shot vigs with shots remaining is to leave them be for a day and ask them to fire, THEN lynch them. Besides, it would give us an opportunity to test the ability I'm 99% sure Stevie is claiming.

The other two have, respectively, claims that make much more flavor sense (assuming I know what StevieRei is claiming*), and a confirmable ability paired with rolebased that I KNOW is correct.

* - If I saw that ability being hinted from ANY other character I would lynch it, but it makes WAY too much sense on Rei.

Come on now his is the "easiest" to confirm.

We give him a nice little list and those die.

If more than than die later we know.

If those don't die we know.

And scum claiming vig? Wooooo nelly.

Untargetable (bulletproof) vig doesn't ring ANY bells SpyreX?

Hell, 1-shot bulletproof vig is easy enough for a Mafioso to fake. (The other consideration on leaving malthusis be - the off chance that we could trick the Mafia into wasting a night's kill.)

Actually, now that I think about it... why the HELL am I considering SpyreX town, especially after I went and looked at recent stuff and he has hydra antipathy that he's shown no sign of here?

FoS: SpyreX

(Current thoughts on voting block: I'm confirmed town, LLD is town, GreyICE is town, SpyreX is most likely scum in the block, Tajo needs a closer look.)

DIE DIE DIE MR. SCUMCLAIM WHOSE CLAIMED ROLENAME IS THE MOST LIKELY SAFECLAIM IN THE ENTIRE GAME IMO.

Seriously, untargetable + vig + Misato = no mercy.

What's the reasoning behind the Misato point?

Simple thought process: If I was making an Evangelion game where characters need safeclaims, what would be the first safeclaim I hand out? A: Misato. Not foolproof, but tends to work well.

woops i posted on page 33 and missed his claim. eek. umm yeah my role is protective. I am very, very, against a massclaim in this game. Firstly, it's not fun to me, to be honest. Secondly, from what I've seen from the powers that the town will have for the next couple days the scum also have some powerful abilities as well so outing all the power roles with a massclaim might not even be in our favor. Us power roles have already been given enough people to target tonight we cannot possibly deal with the guessing game that would happen if the scum know everyone's role.

also, did malthusis just get confirmed by the mod? lolwut.

Thirdly, DO NOT DO CANDLEJACK'S PLAN. that is all.

Two of these reactions are expected (with one little exception in the wording). The third reads honest.

We'll leave Stevie be for now, IMO.

Untargetable (bulletproof) vig doesn't ring ANY bells SpyreX?

I'm tired help me out here.

Seriously though what scum goes SUP I AM VIG unless there's waaacky mechanics at play?

Usually SK, but Mafiosos might try to get away with faking a 1-shot vig.

(Especially since scumthusis actually having a bonus kill isn't out of the question - I've used them on Mafiosos before.)

Also, this tone is really odd for SpyreX. Feels like I'm reading DGB.

I have issues with that claim. You may call in an Airstrike to bombard enemy targets. Keyword: "targets". But you're a one-shot? Also, I don't see how being completely untargetable could possibly be a town ability. Immunity to every investigative ability, every killing ability, every ability full-stop? That sounds more like some sort of godfather/serial killer ability. If you don't die today, you need to die somewhere down the line.

The "targets" point is weaker (though, the flavour point about airstriking not being something that fits with the show is correct, from as little as I remember about the show) and a reasonable error, but legitimate. The immunity ability itself point is, the more I think about it, not a "town" role.

Gut is REALLY not liking vollkan right now, and posts like this are part of the reason why.

---

Docs should DEFINITELY consider protecting me tonight.

---

Yeah, let's lynch the definite scumbag today. No pussyfooting around with trying to give him a day to kill, there's no way he's town.

Unvote, Vote: malthusis

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

vollkan, who is scum here?

[Candle Jack]

The problem is vollkan, your last 'plus' came over ten of your posts ago, and those posts have been filled with very logical and well reasoned arguments and theory, but what they haven't been filled with is a general spearheaded strike to demolish someone you think is scum. You aren't even pushing on anyone, really, at this stage in the game, your vote isn't on, and more.

Its almost a guarantee you aren't being lynched today, but I'd like to see something more than the middle of the road path you've embarked on recently if you're are town.

[Candle Jack]

[Candle Jack]

We should get a flip realitively soon, Kdub was her about fifty minutes ago.

If we die in the night, speedlynch on Kast gogogogo.

[Candle Jack]

here*

[Candle Jack]

Prepare for more Ludi tomorrow as well. Scum may want to start weeping in the streets.

[Candle Jack]

I can confirm I got my ability from Kast.

As said Stevie needs to claim.

Reading a bit.

~~~

Tar will be here sooner or later with the flavor and role shenenigans.

[Candle Jack]

huh?

Do you know something we don't, because malthusis flipped as a serial killer.

[Candle Jack]

Stevie at this point may or may not be fakeclaiming, as me and Tar highly doubt his claimed abilities (one shot nightkill and lynch revive, what?) and he seems to conviniently forget he said he could 'target' things.

Nevertheless, I investigated SpyreX because of his message and my own misgivings, and got a result that SpyreX is 'sided with the Angels'.

Vote: SpyreX

~~

There is also no way Kast is scum, giving scum knowledge of a three man secret masonry seems to negate the purpose of them, and no way would scum also give the masons on day one a one shot cop ability to hunt down the other scum.

[Candle Jack]

I don't like that Nocmen. You're trying to keep as many possible options open, then?

Do you think we should also lynch Stevie along with myself and Kast? You really think three (2 1/2?) competent people would line themselves up like this if they were scum?

[Candle Jack]

Tajo, no way does scum enable, with a cop investigate, a member of a three person masonry. If he was scum, he would never give the ability to me (especially a town masonry that he somehow knew about as scum which negates the purpose of it), instead claiming it failed, roleblocked, some other weak excuse.

[Candle Jack]

CJ says I'm an angel.

Wrong. My result said you were aligned 'with angels', which didn't mean explicitly you were 'an angel'. Still, its nice to know that you have basically claimed to 'be' an angel, and what it looks like to me are attempting to let as many buddies as possible jump on this wagon.

~~~
Nocmen, well, you can start by explaining how you DO think the stevie claim fits in with this, if you are accusing all three of us of being scum.

[Candle Jack]

CJ says I'm an angel.

Wrong. My result said you were aligned 'with angels', which didn't mean explicitly you were 'an angel'. Still, its nice to know that you have basically claimed to 'be' an angel, and what it looks like to me are attempting to let as many buddies as possible jump on this wagon.

~~~
Nocmen, well, you can start by explaining how you DO think the stevie claim fits in with this, if you are accusing all three of us of being scum.

Read the result PM again, Magister - result says SpyreX is Angel.

- returns to being V/LA -

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Stevie, does your revive work on both lynchings and killings?

[Candle Jack]

but perhaps not fabricated by stevie, but the scum team used their ability on him.

What ability are you talking about here like it is a fact?

only thing that i think is weird is the one shot unlynchable....hmm...last time i played a game with a governor it ended up pretty wonky. idk ill have to think about all this.

Can you explain what is 'weird' and what happened that made the game 'wonky'? Keep in mind, this isn't a governor role, rather a one shot self reviver with no alignment flip until the second death (!)

~~~

Iecerint

, why aren't you voting SpyreX/(anyone)?

~~~

The problem with lynching anyone else is, for one, that we have gotten a result saying SpyreX is an angel, and besides (lolframing!) which actually may be possible, SpyreX has defended himself by saying, 'kill me now as town, before I become scum!!!' which is a horrible defense because he is saying not to kill him because he isn't scum,... YET.

'defense'

I could be infected and that could be what spawned all this.

However, AS OF RIGHT NOW, I am town

[Candle Jack]

I could get behind a stevie lynch

. He claimed a scum ability.

The only issue I have with that is that this Spyrex/Kast/CJ issue needs to be resolved one way or the other at some point, and delaying that with double stevie lynches seems pointless

Not Voting (11)

- Amrun, Kawaii, Antifinity, Iecerint, Surye, Celebloki, Starbuck, ace5993,

ZeL1nK,

GhostWriter, Kast

????

(Also, I don't understand your stevie position, if you think he is scum, you're going to have to do just that to kill him, so no sense weeping over it)

[Candle Jack]

After thinking it over... I'm going to partially out the remaining masons.

One of them is bloody obvious (seriously, he should have been known as soon as I claimed Magi), and the other is in the (shards of the) town alliance.

This is necessary because I suspect that the game event? that we just received word of (NOT the game event thing earlier today) is going to cascade to the other former Masons (we're Melchior, first Magi).

[Candle Jack]

Yep mason is scum. Other one needs to claim right now.

Uh, Nocmen claimed on page 5. It's just that nobody noticed.

---

So, we have guaranteed scum in Vollkan (knew we should have sent the daycop his way instead of at SpySpy) and in Nocmen (recruited, Iruel, daycop + bulletproof?). Which one to lynch today?

Vote: Vollkan

for now, could go for either.

[Candle Jack]

EBWOP: - Tar

[Candle Jack]

CandleJack, you got a fucking GUILTY on motherfucking TOWN.

Awesome, that should tell you that something is at play here besides our investigation. We're not sure what, but it is something. We're not stupid enough to throw down a guilty on someone somebody else already claimed a guilty on, in a kamikaze effort to get a lynch off.

This isn't even the usualy so-so logic I expect from people, Its an anti-town way of thinking. And the fact everybody is ready to chain six hundred lynches off on either one of 4 players is anti-town as well.

[Candle Jack]

heh, who did Pom hide behind night one?

[Candle Jack]

What was 'weird' and 'weirder'.

Unvote

For a second. No scum quickhammers. Day is only a few minutes old.

[Candle Jack]

What was 'weird' and 'weirder'.

Unvote

For a second. No scum quickhammers. Day is only a few minutes old.

Excuse me while I smack some sense into Ludi.

Vote: vollkan

Seriously now, this isn't even a question.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Huh? You need to stop with the caps and fake rage and insults and whatnot.

~~~~

I am willing to lynch either vollkan or nocmen. Um, ok? I am voting vollkan, and it is a higher than not chance at this point that Nocmen may be scum, but I'm not as convinced as Tar. I'm not sure what you're implying here.

Anyways, I didn't 'claim a guilty on town', I submitted my daycopping on SpyreX and got 'angel', and then revealed that.

You've still yet to produce a valid reason why someone (us) would do this.

[Candle Jack]

CandleJack, you got a fucking GUILTY on motherfucking TOWN.

Awesome, that should tell you that something is at play here besides our investigation. We're not sure what, but it is something. We're not stupid enough to throw down a guilty on someone somebody else already claimed a guilty on, in a kamikaze effort to get a lynch off.

This isn't even the usualy so-so logic I expect from people, Its an anti-town way of thinking. And the fact everybody is ready to chain six hundred lynches off on either one of 4 players is anti-town as well.

Oh shut up, scumbag.

You were willing to lynch either Nocmen OR Vollkan... i.e. either a person who used to be your mason buddy or the PERSON THE TOWN HIDER DIED FROM HIDING BEHIND?!?

This ain't the careful, thoughtful CandleJack we had on day 1, and I ain't afraid to say so.

I'll string you up ages before Nocmen, so shut the fuck up about how it's anti-town to suspect the person WHO CLAIMED A GUILTY ON TOWN and start scumhunting.

There's exactly one reason why you should consider lynching Nocmen over us, and considering that we're going to die tomorrow anyways I don't really see a reason to hide it at this point.

Claim: Non-Angel (GEHIRN) Cult Recruit

Since an Angel recruit is hiding somewhere in the Magi and we're non-Angel scum and LLD is now dead... Nocmen is the Angel in the Magi by process of elimination.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Claim: Non-Angel (GEHIRN) Cult Recruit

Tar,

~~~

[Candle Jack]

heh, It sucks beind outed because of that huh?

Don't want to vote buddy vollkan down?

[Candle Jack]

It depends who they trust more. Me, or the person who already had one bad cop result, and who just claimed being in a cult.

Gehirn isn't mentioned in the first 2 Rebuild movies, AFAIK. I watched them both in the past week, but I was partially distracted for the second.

CJ, what was the source of the info where there is an angel recruit in the magi? Curious to see where this BS is coming from.

GEHIRN... it's in the original, and let's just say that it appears that Yui Ikari has her own agenda this game. (Don't worry, EVA-01 already knows not to claim.)

1) D2 opening flavor
2) Us trying to recruit you last night and failing miserably, and the flavor PM that we got with that failure. (Otherwise I would have assumed that we failed because we misidentified you as Balthasar - our flavor mirrors the usual "Angels attack Melchior, then Balthasar, then Casper" pattern.)

heh, It sucks beind outed because of that huh?

Don't want to vote buddy vollkan down?

Oh come on ML, Tar sees the problem.

With only one town-sided kill, this game can hit the cult treadmill.

i.e.

"12 town, 3 cult" - Cult lynched
"11 town, 3 cult" - Cult lynched
"10 town, 3 cult"...

No competent designer includes ZERO town aligned kills outside of a single lynch in a game with a cult. No reviewer lets it past them.

If you flip the way you say you will, maybe I'll give a shit, but that was a scumclaim lol

We've been trying to figure out why the vig hasn't fired/has been blocked both nights, actually. We have rolebased that there is a Vig in the game.

OTOH an ability that counteracts a pro-town masonry with potentially other abilities by hardcore punishing them for claiming makes perfect sense.

Heh, next time discuss these things with arguably the most knowledgeable designer on MafiaScum before claiming ML

Funny story. Kdub's responses to our inquiries into the D2 "no longer confirmed" flavor indicate to us that Iruel recruiting a Mason was a triggered event, not a scum ability. (Which is admittedly weird, since I'd been mulling the possibility of scum-Iruel with a 1-shot Magi recruit D1 - it seemed logical given flavor.*)

Also, I was the one who made the claim.

* - This plus Magister Ludi requests are the only reason I didn't bow out of the game immediately D2.

I see that I am at L-1. Don't have time to read up immediately, but:

Claim: Asuka Langley Soryu

I have a 2-shot passive PGO ability called "Aggressive Tendencies"

Huh, apparently Kdub gave one of the big three to scum as a safeclaim after all. (Considering that Rebuild flavor is involved, maybe I shouldn't be surprised - while I haven't watched the movies, I'm of the understanding that Asuka plays a much smaller role in Rebuild.)

[Candle Jack]

EBWOP: - Tar

Meh, not like it will matter tomorrow anyways.

[Candle Jack]

WELP that explains why the Vig wasn't firing. Though "Vig who dies when GEHIRN recruited instead of being recruited" seems a bit odd - why not unrecruitable vig instead? Meh, we'll figure it out at endgame. (Also, where the hell did the Mafia kill go this time?)

So, your choice, players who still have the town (or Angel) win conditions: Lynch Tar-cult or Nocmen-Iruel today? (Or I guess you *could* go cult-leader-hunting, but...)

As for us, current thought is that it's PARTAY time for us. Adding a little cross-cultural festivity to this game's events, as it were. With a nice dash of WIFOM on the side, since we have nothing left to lose.

*sips latte*

[Candle Jack]

Also, why the hell are Yui Ikari AND Eva-01 in the game? I am confuzzled.

[Candle Jack]

Vote: Nocmen

I'll save the self-vote for later, might as well try to get the recruited traitor lynched first since our recruit last night failed.

But PARTAY still takes first priority

[Candle Jack]

Oh right, we don't NEED votes when we can just use our handy new N2 warhead instead.

Nuke: Nocmen

I'll let you guys figure out how long it takes to detonate.

[Candle Jack]

I'll save the self-vote for later,

might as well try to get the recruited traitor lynched first

since our recruit last night failed.

?

We're recruited Cult (GEHIRN), Nocmen is Mafia (Angel).

[Candle Jack]

Also, I think you said yesterday that Eva-01 knew not to claim IIRC. The current flip doesn't make sense with that.

Hence my confuzzlement that Eva-01 (which has Yui Ikari's soul) AND Yui Ikari (hmm, I wonder I wonder what role she could be) are both in the game.

I'll save the self-vote for later,

might as well try to get the recruited traitor lynched first

since our recruit last night failed.

?

We're recruited Cult (GEHIRN), Nocmen is Mafia (Angel).

I understand that, but I still don't understand what you're going on about. How is Nocmen (the "first" one you want to get lynched) a recruited traitor? O.o

You implied that you attempted to cult Kawaii last night and inferred that your recruit attempt killed him.

Okay, so here's the situation:

N1: GEHIRN recruits me.
N2: GEHIRN attempts to recruit Nocmen, fails, gets a flavor PM that basically boils down to "you try to recruit Nocmen but an Angel got to him first".
N3: GEHIRN attempts to recruit Kawaii (lurker not likely to be lynched, eh?), who dies instead.

Yeah. Pathetic record, I know. Hence my PARTAY TIME, cause I'm not going to win this game (damn you abilities that strip my shiny town win condition!). Might as well see if I can get another Angel lynched while I still can.

[Candle Jack]

Where in that entire process did you get information that SpyreX was scum?

A daycop that we *claimed* to send in on SpyreX while actually looking elsewhere (came back town, so we're not telling you who we sent it on).

We'd have claimed an innocent on SpyreX if not for the flavor scene at the beginning of D2 making it very clear that a Magi had been recruited (and thus ensuring our eventual demise) - we foolishly assumed that this had to be referring to us, so we figured if we were going down anyways we might as well take out the strongest Town player in the bargain.

[Candle Jack]

Hi!

[Candle Jack]

OK, first things first, vollkan was ARAEL, scum DAY ROLE COP

^^^

Anyone remember SpyreX D1? His mind was 'intruded'. Arael is the Angel that intruded Asuka's mind (side note: ironic fake-claim). Put two and two together, and it points to Spyrex being day copped D1. Another side note, re:#1166, this means their day cop is dead so not really a problem anymore. The question is, who was daycopped D2 and D3? Kawaii was obviously one of them, but so far no one has mentioned their mind was intruded apart from Spyrex. Although Stevie is claiming he's received 'similar' PMs?

I need to make sense of this. CJ claimed cult recruit who was made bulletproof and given an angel day cop ability by Kast... And now he has a nuke and he's using it on Nocmen? Also, apparently Kast has given

another

daycop ability to Nocmen. I'm not putting any faith into any investigation result he gives, with what happened with the first one. Something is up and it's highly likely both Nocmen and CJ have been recruited by Kast now.

I agree with tajo. CJ is trying to get lynched here. He's protecting someone, and chances are it's Kast. CJ isn't the recruiter, and he doesn't need to die immediately - he's conf-scum, anyway.

VOTE: Kast

So yeah. I'd recommend that Nocmen use his daycop here if not for the fact that he's Zelink's scumbuddy and thus would give us a false innocent.

Seriously, just LOOK at this post. IIoA out the wazoo. No WAY is Zelink town.

HoS: ZeL1nK

, would vote if not for existence of Nocmen.

---

In other news, people actually believed me when I faked a nuclear daykill?

Oh right, LLD's out of the game.

Oh well. PARTAY TIME! Just need to deal with the Socialist paperwork and get one of those fancy new hats. Would go nicely with that new order of rope.

[Candle Jack]

Eh, our work here is done.

Claim: Current host of Ireul. I'll leave it to you to figure out the operative word.

Unvote, Vote: Candle Jack

PARTAY

HAMMER TIME.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

He softclaimed that Iruel can jump to Nocmen next.

I don't particularly believe him because killing LLD didn't make much sense if Iruel could hop in upon death.

Not MY fault that the rest of the team consists of idiots (I MISS MY TOWN WIN CONDITION). And that the process that recruits us DOESN'T let us communicate with the rest of the Angels (we'll flip Mafia Traitor).

Oh well, the actual Angels will be dead within a few days anyways so what the hell do I care. PARTAY TIME. (And time to look for a game that guarantees no recruits, since I ALWAYS get recruited RIGHT AFTER I piece together the entire scumteam. Lucky me that I did so outside the thread/Mason QT this time, so I still have a *chance* to win.)

[Candle Jack]

Is the magi QT posted?