Open 315 - Quack Mafia (Game Over)

[glowball]

I protected jilynne1991, figured they were newb and if I was a quack it wouldn't hurt the game too much.


Question to all who randomly chose who to protect: Sathoris, IceGuy,DonJosh, were you at all worried about possibly being a "quack"?

[glowball]

Glowball, why did you not include me in that? As I said, I protected Sathoris.

Of course I was a little worried, but it's just a 1/3 chance of being a quack, and even I am a quack there's a chance a doc would stop me. Protection was the best move.

Did anyone else protect Sathoris?

I protected Sathoris.

He's not an obvious choice for protection, but he's not a newbie either. And I like the username.

I didn't see your protection as "random" you explained above....

[glowball]

This thread is lurking.

FoS: Open 315

I would have thought the question was relevant whether it was a random choice or not...

Question to all who randomly chose who to protect

: Sathoris, IceGuy,DonJosh, were you at all worried about possibly being a "quack"?

The question is based on the fact that the picks were random-- so the question that I asked is only relevant to those who chose random protection...

[glowball]

Most of the people that picked for a reason explained their reasoning...and if they didn't the question was directed at them also...

[glowball]

"Question to all who

randomly

chose who to protect"

I don't think people who chose with a reason would feel this question was directed at them. Aside from that the question is pretty pointless, what were you hoping to achieve from it?

It wasn't directed at people who chose with reason. If you have a reason and you stated why then I don't care right now.

I wanted to know why those who chose "randomly" chose, because there is no RVS for scum and they don't get protection power...so my form of questioning would be to deduce some sort of response that might allow them to slip up---however, taking the time to explain all of my questioning practices has made the question null and invalid.

however, I would still like you to answer why you chose who you chose instead of arguing the point down and around it-- it's a simple request and I hope you oblige.

[glowball]

"Question to all who

randomly

chose who to protect"

I don't think people who chose with a reason would feel this question was directed at them. Aside from that the question is pretty pointless, what were you hoping to achieve from it?

It wasn't directed at people who chose with reason. If you have a reason and you stated why then I don't care right now.

I wanted to know why those who chose "randomly" chose, because there is no RVS for scum and they don't get protection power...so my form of questioning would be to deduce some sort of response that might allow them to slip up---however, taking the time to explain all of my questioning practices has made the question null and invalid.

however, I would still like you to answer why you chose who you chose instead of arguing the point down and around it-- it's a simple request and I hope you oblige.

I chose Izak because his name was above mine on the player list. Already mentioned this. Only your question was if the people who chose randomly were worried about being a quack. Not why they chose randomly. Also you said you protected jilynne after someone else already said he'd protected jilynne. Safe choice for scum to pick. And you completely changed your mind about the question after I bring it up.

The question is based on the fact that the picks were random-- so the question that I asked is

only

relevant to those who chose

random

protection...

Most of the people that picked for a reason explained their reasoning...and if they didn't the question was directed at them

also

...

And back again.

I wanted to know why those who chose "randomly" chose

Why do you flip flop between your intentiones?

VOTE: Glowball

K...either I am not being clear or you are intentionally misrepping me....

I asked, if those who chose to RANDOMLY protect were at all worried about being quacks and why they picked who they picked- 2 separate questions, why is that hard for you? I didn't change my mind after talking to you, I made an addition... NO flip-flop. I just don't care about those who didn't choose randomly because right now that isn't important to me. I wanted to know why someone would pick to protect randomly knowing that theier pick could be killed and I feel like it's easy for scum to throw out a name for no reason-- townies should be worried about who they picked because it could have changed the game drastically if they picked someone and they died. It's important to think through all of your decisions in this set up...we aren't just townies-- what we do at night has an effect.

I chose Izak because his name was above mine on the player list.

Already mentioned this.

Only your question was if the people who chose randomly were worried about being a quack. Not why they chose randomly. Also you said you protected jilynne after someone else already said he'd protected jilynne. Safe choice for scum to pick. And you completely changed your mind about the question after I bring it up.

You still have yet to answer if you were at all worried about being a quack when choosing....As far as protection claims go- your "read" is null. If I had gotten to the thread first then I would have been the first person to say that I protected jilynne1991 and someone else would be second "scum". It is in no way a tell of my alignment because I protected the same person as someone else and the fact that you are grasping is a tad bit unsettling.

You are twisting my words
Misrepping
Evading questions
Grasping at null scumtells

You could ask for clarification but attacking my protection choice? It's definitely not a "safe" choice to pick someone who's already been picked- it draws attention to yourself,and town may sacrifice you because you are still a possible quack. However thinking purely numbers wise it is stupid to relate my protection with scumtell because chances are...this happened with someone too because

only 2 people died out of a possible 4

meaning that either someone didn't use their protection and they are a quack or they used it as a quack but protected someone that a non-quack protected also...That being said the only thing I got from your issues with me was the fact that I wasn't clear and I realize how unnerving that can be and right now I honestly think your intentions are good.

VOTE: Izakthegoomba

Sheep sheep sheep-- attaching yourself to Sathoris? and an OMGUS vote on his behalf? I've never seen the defense of another player in this light...I mean we are 3 pages into day 1 and you seem to be standing very secure behind Sathoris, possibly because you know he's town.

[glowball]

And it's not an "OMGUS vote on his behalf" - I believe that Empking is the scummiest player here.

Do you deny that his reasoning behind the vote is total crap?

Total crap to you is not total crap to someone else....players use votes and questions to gauge other players- it may only be to read the player that their vote is on, or the other players in the game, but guess what???? Emp sure got a reaction out of you...and I bet it's helping him in his reads.

Now on to my original point- protecting RANDOMLY could be scummy or just newb. Like Pops said, we all should have had more of a method and that is where we failed as a group HOWEVER even he had a method to who he would choose to protect. Scum would have no consequences because they cannot protect at all- so they are just lying. Everyone SHOULD have thought it through to a certain extent and only scum or newbies would have "protected" randomly with no thought of the consequences.

[glowball]

oh..and NO I am not saying everyone with RANDOM protection is scum.

I am saying that to protect randomly

WITH NO THOUGHT OF THE CONSEQUENCES

is a pretty big scumtell in my book.

I said this in my post above, but I didn't bold it on caps on anything and I know that SOME people like to skim read and misrep, also every now and again I am not as clear as I should be- so there. DEAL.

[glowball]

I posted it to see if you would nitpick about it and avoid my real points, which you did. Give me a response to the posts before the "fluff"

Oshit, missed that.

No. Not buying that. Emp, I still read you as scum, but I agree that Don is trying to find a reason after doing it.

UNVOTE: Empking

For now.

Missed it? You had posted several times since then- it is really in scum's character to overlook things... THEN Sathoris points it out and you sheep on board and unvote even though you still think Emp is scum and finish it with "for now". You've been making my scummysenses tingle all game-I don't think you missed anything and you need to go.

[glowball]

Please quote where you directly said that you don't think Emp is scum and that is just who he is. Wait! Don't waste your time- because you never said that. You ASKED questions in regards to his playstyle and you said you would go check his meta but no where did you state that Emp was no longer scum in your eyes and that the things he said weren't to be taken seriously.

@jilynne: you say you honestly forgot because you've been a doctor before? Let's just pretend that I buy this excuse...we cannot afford that kind of attention span. This is quack mafia...it's the title of the thread. Your protection/adverse effect or lack thereof is the core of this game and helping town, so I just cannot believe that you signed up for the game got your role PM and didn't think twice about the possibility of being a quack... for goodness sake it's written in the body of the role PM!

[glowball]

Sorry...? I'll be a lot more careful from now on. (Mainly I was so excited to be in such a interesting game and I was kind getting into the, "OMG, I'm a PR, I should find someone to protect wisely!" idea.

Every role in this game is a PR, so what did you expect exactly? I mean you are either a doc or scum...and both have night abilities.

[glowball]

3 Goons

3

2 Quacks

left

6

4 Doctors

left

Confirmed Docs
zMuffinMan
Little Grey

Confirmed Quacks
Forest_air

Seemingly..

No one protected
IceGuy
Glowball(me!)
Don Josh
forest_air

Protected
Jilynne1991
Popsofctown
Empking
Sathoris
izakthegoomba
UnclePain

Variables we cannot account for are that we do not know who zMuffinMan and LittleGrey protected Night 0- because as far as I know those protections are still valid.

Jilynne1991: IceGuy & Glowball
Popsofctown: DonJosh & Empking
Empking: Popsofctown & Uncle Pain
Sathoris: izakthegoomba
izakthegoomba:Sathoris
Uncle Pain: jilynne1991
forest air....

Now for double protections, they could be doc/doc...quack/doc...or quack/quack protecting scum. The only thing we know for sure is that in at least one of those pairings there is a quack or scum.
Now izakthegoomba, sathoris, and jilynne1991 could be quacks, docs, or scum as well. izakthegoomba and sathoris could both be scum with fake claims on protecting each other(safe), or one could be a quack/doc protecting scum. So all in all I don't think we can conclude much from day 1 claims, but we can try to coordinate our night actions to weed out more quacks and ultimately find scum.

Whenever forest_air comes in we have him protect the scummiest person during the night and if the target lives we've found scum, also as an extra measure we can have one of the single protectors like jily,sathoris, or izakthegoomba protect forest_air that way he will make it to day 2 and if he doesn't that means we've found scum out of whoever we assigned to protect him.

I am I being clear? It's kind of confusing me- but I'd love to hear your thoughts on trying to weed out the liars/scum and quacks.

[glowball]

I mean, it's possible that we are both quacks or I'm quack and he's scum, if Muffin and LittleGrey protected each of us, right?

Oh yeah that's possible too.

Forgot what I said. Too much speculation isn't helping us right now actually. We just need a lynch and see how the Jyl protect works out.

the fact that you've jumped up to protect forest without thinking that he has a possibility of dying seems like a slip to me. You know you have the power to make sure he's here tomorrow as long as you don't night kill him, right? Also you seem anxious to lynch anyone really- and then make sure forest protects jily because you know she's likely to die?

I would expect you to want forest to protect the people you find the most scummy- like me or donjosh, so why would you want to "test" jily's alignment...if she is town she is going to die and if she's scum we lynch her- which is true of anyone, so why are you singling out jily?

[glowball]

Because Jyli's been acting like scum. Forest protecting either you or Iceguy works too.

And If I "jumped up to protect forest without thinking that he has a possibility of dying" is only more of tell of a doc then scum, cause scum would know his protect doesn't do anything. Nice try.

If you are scum- which is starting to become increasingly apparent- then you could ensure that forest won't die because you would just tell the other goons not to night kill him....

I would like you to give your reads on all of the players in this game/why or why not you think they are scum/town accompanied by whether or not you think it would be okay to let forest protect them....

[glowball]

Jylinne's isn't actually contributing, just rehashing what's already been said. just what Glowball did.

---

1. IceGuy - Likely scum
2. jilynne1991 - Likely scum
4. glowball - Likely scum
5. DonJosh - unsure, will have to see how the lynches flip to determine where scum's left.
6. izakthegoomba - unsure, will have to see how the lynches flip to determine where scum's left.
7. Sathoris - doctor
8. Uncle Pain - doctor/quack
9. PopsofCtown doctor/quack
10. Empking - doctor/quack depending on DonJ's flip.
11. forest_air - Quack.

If DonJ flips scum, Empking is a doctor and the two remaining quacks are in Iceguy/Glowball and Uncle_Pain/Pops. Which means the other two scum must be Jylinne and Izak.

If DonJ flips quack then Empking is a doctor and seeing as I have a townread on Uncle and Pops the remaining scum must be Jylinne/Iceguy/Glowball or Jylinne and a combination of Izak and glowball or iceguy.

If DonJ flips doctor it's a little bit more complicated. Empking could be a quack or he could be scum. I don't think he could be a doctor because that would mean both Uncle/Pops and Iceguy/Glowball consist of a quack and a doctor.

And the remaining three scum must me Jylinne/Izak/Sathoris. I know I'm not scum so that doesn't work.

I have a town read on Empking so that means he's a quack and remaining scum are the same as if DonJ flips quack. But with less certainty.

DonJ's lynch tells us the most. We shouldn't lynch Jylinne because won't sort out the quack identity problem that way. We could lynch one of Iceguy and glowball and apply mostly the same logic as above but that always leaves doubt over DonJ's alignement. It's too early to determine pro's and cons right, might do it later.

---

Of course this goes of the assumption that Muffin and Little grey both didn't protect me or Izak.

All of this seemingly based on reason is based on YOUR scum and town reads. There is no substantial information in here once you remove your opinions and....the part I bolded is just such a scum tactic. By your own process of elimination you identified yourself as scum, but then cancelled it out because you know you aren't. Well the rest of us do not know that you aren't scum. At first I thought you were contributing- but you've been very much so in confirmation bias and it's day one! You are pushing an agenda and looking no further than that- if you are town you aren't an asset because those who tunnel and are stuck in bias ultimately lose games because they refuse to think of certain people as scum.

Not to mention this is the SECOND time you've dodged a question I asked. I am not amused...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sathoris

[glowball]

[quote[="glowball"]I would like you to give your reads on all of the players in this game

/why or why not you think they are scum/town accompanied by whether or not you think it would be okay to let forest protect them....

[/quote]

you didn't answer that part- and all I am trying to make you realize is that if all of us come out and say

"well that theory doesn't work because I know I'm not scum"

we won't get anywhere...no one is going to say that they are scum, but scum will try desperately to force people to accept their "townie" status. Usually I don't mind people saying things like "us, as town" or "we townies", but you aren't helping town by doing so, in fact your statement was to basically dismiss the possibility of you as scum- and that is still a very real possibility.

[glowball]

you are funny: first you say that your opinions change with every contribution-now you want me to look at older reads. I asked for your reads to get an up to date view of where you stand ALSO why- I have yet to hear why you think certain people are scum/town, like what exactly they did/contributed. All I know is your question dodging is a scumtactic, through and through- you deflect to me constantly.Scum don't like to answer questions for fear that they might contradict themselves or actually have to do work.

[glowball]

To All:

How would you feel about forest_air protecting either Sathoris or Izakthegoomba?

[glowball]

Your reactions are not such of town, and that is why I was asking- but if you'd been paying attention Izak and you are my top scum reads...I have nothing on jily besides VI at this point- she could be scum, but I don't even see her as a scum threat because she is obvnewb and if she is scum she'll slip up again. Are you truly afraid that we won't be able to get her out of here...honestly we could just lynch her today if it bothers you that much.

[glowball]

Yeah you want to lynch DonJosh even though you think me/iceguy/jily are scum with a possible izak somewhere in there. It makes perfect sense. The only thing I will agree is that izak and jily are possible scum- moreso leaning izak and you. Although I have a proposition....

[glowball]

DonJosh flips scum or quack:
IceGuy
jilynne1991
glowball
izakthegoomba
Sathoris
Uncle Pain
PopsofCtown
Empking
forest_air


forest protects jilynne.
Jilynne protects glowball.
Sathoris protects forest_air.
Itszak protects forest_air
popsofctown protects empking
Uncle Pain protects empking
glowball protects popsofctown
Iceguy protects popsofctown
Empking protects Unclepain

results:
forest_air: conf townie, survives most of the time, dies something around a quarter of the time but yields good information whenever he does die. (Sathoris and zak contains 1 scum)
Jilynne: Either dies, or becomes confirmed scum
glowball: If Jilynne is a quack, glowball also either dies, or becomes confirmed scum. Since we are guaranteed instant feedback on whether jilynne is good at medicine or not, this the exact same principle as using forest_air
Sathoris: Is forced to be a major NK cantidate. This is good because if Sathoris flips quack, he has already investigated itszak with decent accuracy.
Itszak: is forced to be a major NK cantidate. This is good because if Itszak flips quack, he has already investigated Sathoris with decent accuracy.

popsofctown: safely protected by the joint efforts of glowball and iceguy. If he dies, something stinks, and it can be sniffed out.

Uncle Pain: safely protected by Empking's confirmed doctorness.
glowball: possibly investigated, a bad nightkill target all around
Iceguy: oops
Empking: double protected.

finish tis lader

I like this, however we are not accounting for the protection of zmuffinman and little grey-see bolded. You say that you should be alive with the joint protection of myself and Ice Guy unless both of us are the other quacks and zmuffinman protected jily last night too. Also, Empking is confirmed doctor in this scenario is relying on DonJosh being scum and quack- if he isn't then we need to work out a plan B on the possibility that Emp could be a quack just so we have options. Besides that I see no reason why this shouldn't work out.

[glowball]

Ouch.

[glowball]

btw...switch me because there is no way I am protecting Sathoris. I think he's scum and just because you guys think he isn't doesn't change my mind... grrr playing with the over arrogant experienced types makes me want to pull my hair out- you think you know everything!

@Uncle Pain...I will make a case as to why I find Sathoris scummy.

[glowball]

See the thing about the plan is-- it's basically hinging on the hope that your reads are correct. I mean there are only 3 players not being protected and so you are allowing scum to kill them because you they are worth the sacrifice- if one of the less assumed players in scum your plan doesn't do much except for allow them to pick us off and fly under the radar.

[glowball]

oh and I have company and then I am hitting the gym, but I'll try to post my case on Sathoris late late tonight or tomorrow.

[glowball]

See the thing about the plan is-- it's basically hinging on the hope that your reads are correct. I mean there are only 3 players not being protected and so you are allowing scum to kill them because you they are worth the sacrifice- if one of the less assumed players in scum your plan doesn't do much except for allow them to pick us off and fly under the radar.

2 out of those 3 are pretty much confirmed scum. Getting desperate cause your NK target is being chosen by us?

this is just terrible.

[glowball]

Gosh! Life...love=me being super busy.

I promise to have an actual post up today- but now...now is breakfast

I will say that just glancing over things- Sathoris obviously didn't care about his L-1 vote, he's too anxious. My "proposition" was dropped when popsofctown came through with his plan and tbh it was much better and more well thought out. I do not have a gift of numbers and coordinating things like that.

[glowball]

Thank you for your assumed patience. Firstly, I think that the plans being proposed rely on the fact that popsofctown's reads are correct and thus sacrificing potential townies for slaughter because he feels that they aren't needed or don't contribute much. THAT BEING SAID- I don't have any thing better that I think will provide as much information and since everyone seems okay with this I'll go with it. I just hate when people act like experience=townie in these kinds of games.

Anyway these are my reads

IceGuy

--almost every time he posts there is content or attempted scumhunting;; town

jilynne1991

-- I don't want to be rude, but I will say that if she is town she's made some big mistakes and she is somewhat of a liability. I am a little stuck as to whether or not any of the "tells" are alignment tells or simply newbtells;; null

DonJosh

-- I have absolutely no idea why DonJosh is getting so much heat, or why he is the suggested lynch for the day. His "trap" logic could just be the way that he best finds scum, but I don't even think he got a fair chance at that before everyone starting sheeping onto his lynch;; null

izakthegoomba

-- I think he is doing the bare minimum to skate by in this game, and started sheeping to Sathoris early on in the game wasn't until recently that he made some breaks from him;; scum

Sathoris

-- Evades questions, deflects, "feeler/planter", anxious for lynch;;scum

Uncle Pain

-- ISO'd only has 7 posts, but he comes with the content. I don't see scum that post a lot in walls like that because they are too worried about contradicting themselves later on;;town

Elfen

PopsofCtown

-- A lot of posts and a lot of content, so the same logic as UP applies to Pops. However, something about him doesn't feel right but I am hoping he's town because he is the creator of this plan;; leaning town.

Empking

-- He keeps it brief, but I have seen him do this as town and as scum...his meta is hard to break; null

forest_air

Apokalyptika

-- by default of the night 0 protect obvtown; obvquack.

Also, if anyone cares...

Spoiler: Case on Sathoris

I started the game with a simply question and Sathoris immediately chose to argue the point over what I saw as opinions of what HE would rather I ask and semantics as to what I asked.
*Notice the "I"s bolded and italicized.

I'd

say that question is directed at the wrong people

. Choosing a random target coincides with the "fear" of being a quack. The reason being it's random to be a quack to your protect target should be random. The people who chose a specific target with reason did so knowing they'd deliberatly picked someone who could've died.

I

would rather want to hear their motives.

*Notice the "I"s bolded and italicized.

"Question to all who randomly chose who to protect"

I

don't think people who chose with a reason would feel this question was directed at them. Aside from that the question is pretty pointless, what were you hoping to achieve from it?

Same argument- his opinion on my line of questioning...no content, no point- just disagreeing and then asking what I wanted to achieve.

You're not answering my question DonJ. I ask again, why didn't you said it was a trap in your first post? Cause I think you just made that up.

Hypocrite...upset at DonJosh for not answering questions???? Are you serious, I basically had to drag an answer out of him for my questions and he still left my first question not fully answered and there are still other questions that were posed to him by me that he won't answer.

It may seem like glowball's post looks very well thought of but it's mostly Uncle_Pain's post rehashed. Nice way to appear as if you're contributing with good ideas.

So here he goes out of his way to try to discredit anything I do and paint me as scum. Once again, forcing his opinions out under the guise of actual content.

Fair enough. I know I'm town and I'll protect Forest so he'll live anyway.

Terrible force assumption of innocence.

Nobody else protected Izak so I can't be a quack. The other two quacks are in the paired groups

Obviously he's not thinking things through...THEN

I mean, it's possible that we are both quacks or I'm quack and he's scum, if Muffin and LittleGrey protected each of us, right?

Oh yeah that's possible too

. Forgot what I said. Too much speculation isn't helping us right now actually.

We just need a lynch and see how the Jyl protect works out.

OH YEAH? Oh no. He is overly confident in his ability to protect in QUACK mafia- the only way you can guarantee (single handedly) that someone would be alive tomorrow is if you are scum and decide not to kill them. Last bolded, is just his anxiousness- I mean there is no rush IMO.

If DonJ flips doctor it's a little bit more complicated. Empking could be a quack or he could be scum.

I don't think he could be a doctor because that would mean both Uncle/Pops and Iceguy/Glowball consist of a quack and a doctor. And the remaining three scum must me Jylinne/Izak/Sathoris.

I know I'm not scum so that doesn't work.

Here he disregards a theory because of his own outward forced assumption of innocence. Of course, now I point this out to him and afterwards.....

*Forest dies and we have two new quacks and a confirmed scum. (

I know I'm town, but just looking at this scenario it's also possible I'm the scum and Izak got protected. Just to cover all bases.)

He's "covering" all bases-- yet still feels the need to justify himself and again force his innocence.

You're more likely to be tunneling on me..

Deflection...

Those reads are all over the game. Just read me in iso to find those out. Don't be lazy.

Earlier he said his reads change with all of the input that players give, yet when I ask for his reads again he refuses and calls me lazy...generally evasive and uncooperative behavior. I mean what reason would you have as town to be this difficult? I would think it was just ME, but he was being difficult towards me since the very beginning of this game before I even did anything. I mean confirmation bias that early is just agenda pushing.

To All:

How would you feel about forest_air protecting either Sathoris or Izakthegoomba?

Oh now you're just trying to save your buddy Jylinne.

If you'd just suggest me it could still come from a townie tunneling on me, but adding Izak? Jylinne has contributed nothing. Made several references to not knowing the town PM. And in the unlikely case she's a townie. Isn't any loss to the town. Yet she gets a free pass now, why?

Besides you scramble my words. I said my reads are all over this thread. Which they are. I started by suspecting you, it eased off a bit once DonJ made his 'trap' post. I've had faith in Pops and Uncle through the thread. Empking is still a bit up in the air but DonJ's lynch should be revealing. I've had my thoughts on a Jyl/Iceguy/Glowball scumteam through the game. With only Izak as interchangable depending on flips.

Now my logic, has changed throughout the game. I'm a guy who likes to make up scenario's. Fair enough the ones I've posted so far where relativly quick drafts because any night action can change things so I'm not putting all my effort into trying to determine every outcome as the variables can change too much. Right now though I'm just fine tuning it with every page this thread comes up with.

Now I don't deflect either.

I have answered your questions with an answer that mattered the most.

I don't think Forest should protect anyone else simply because Jylinne is the best suspect to try it on.

I'm fairly sure it's a Jylinne, Glowball and Iceguy or Izak scumteam.

First bolded- again trying to paint me as scum for anything.. Second bolded he claims he answered my questions with "what mattered most" and all that says to me is that he will only answers how he sees fit generally unhelpful and still dodging- I could ask him if the sky is blue and he'd probably say "well it is the sky"...point is- his answers do no adequately address the questions. Last bolded, Day one you've found the scum team? I wouldn't be surprised if Jily or Izak are scum because that way Sathoris can earn his town points by bussing his partners. All I know is that he is super defensive for someone who MOST people see as town. I mean I am the only person giving him any sort of grief yet he still feels the need to go hard on the defensive to knock down everything I say, as if he's afraid that I might convince someone.

Updated reads:

Sathoris: Leaning scum, although I wouldn't read too much into the "scumslip".
DonJosh: Leaning scum, still top suspect.
glowball: Leaning town.
Uncle Pain: Town.
Apokalyptika: Neutral.
PopsofCtown: Leaning town.
jilynne1991: Leaning town due to meta (sorry, I can't be more specific because of the "ongoing games" rule).
Empking: Leaning town.
izakthegoomba: Neutral.

Aaand this post reinforces me with a iceguy/glowball/jylinne scum setup.

Jylinne leaning town. Give me a break! That's scum suicide you just commited there. And leaning scum on me and leaning town on Glowball.

I'm voting for one of those two no matter what come day two!

So IceGuy apparently has commited scumsuicide because he thinks I am town. NEWS FLASH: THIS IS NOT A SCUMTELL.... townies defend townies and townies mistakenly defend scum. Scum defend scum to keep their numbers; scum buss each other to seem more town...so NULL

In other news- scumslip... he's voting for myself or IceGuy because he knows he'll be here and he knows we'll be here by his hand. Not to mention that he said that NO MATTER WHAT-- which is ridiculous confirmation bias because we could gain tons of information tonight especially since we have forest_air's replacement testing jily... so if jily doesn't die, she's CONFIRMED scum, but he'll still vote me or IceGuy.Awesome.

[glowball]

Well glow, that whole case against Sathoris exaggerates all the little pieces throughout,

giving us the impression you want us to have.

A scummy trait in general, trying to mislead us. I don't deny Sath has done some bad stuff, but it's not as bad as you would have us believe.

And Sathoris has done the same....yet you bash me for it? hypocrisy=scum...selective scumhunting.

And I'm not sure I quite understand your scumread on me? Essentially, I'm scum for not coming out with a wallpost about the setup? I'll remind you that this

is

my first analysis-centered game.

You are scum because your content is minimal and you sheep'd to Sathoris very early on. I am convinced that there is scum between the pair of you- if not both. You are either obvscum buddies or scum clinging to a townie for cred.

[glowball]

soooooooo....

I guess we've chosen awkward pause. I would have gone with touch my glittery ball, or even the mouth organ but this is cool too.

[glowball]

Ok, he posts nothing, I see nothing, there's no content, and he's overly defensive/OMGUSing.

All my logic points towards the fact that he's scum...but the way he acts is kind of nonchalant enought that makes you think, "Hmmm, wouldn't scum try harder?" Is anyone getting that vibe besides me, or am I just crazy?

'

who are you referring to?

[glowball]

"a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".--Tarhalindur's Standard Tells: Chainsaw Defense

I think Apok was referring to the fact that I go after Sathoris- you go back at me. Although, I do find you scummy-that isn't why and that chainsaw defense is weak IMO....unless she's talking about something else that I am completely missing.

[glowball]

If jilynne is town, she will top the list of players-I-really-don't-want-to-be-teamed-with.

@glow/Apok:

...the Chainsaw Defense is only trustworthy once the player defended has been revealed to be group scum (once the player defended is proved to be Mafia, any player that used Chainsaw Defense on the dead scum should be scrutinized). Otherwise, it is a null tell.

Sath (obviously) isn't confirmed scum, making this supposed chainsaw defense even weaker.

I agree. Although, it does depend on how Apok sees "chainsaw" and their interpretation...that's just Tarhalindur's opinion that

I

quoted for you as a reference...

[glowball]

soooooooo....

I guess we've chosen awkward pause. I would have gone with touch my glittery ball, or even the mouth organ but this is cool too.

This sounds like some perverted metaphor I'm not old enough to understand.

HAHAHAHAHAHA...it's from the t.v show Late Late Night with Craig Ferguson
Glittery Ball=disco ball
Mouth Organ= Harmonica

[glowball]

We're wasting time here. I've got nothing new to add. DonJ has nothing to add that will change anything. Hammer the poor guy please.

It's not like this game has roll over- no time is being wasted, stop being so anxious.

[glowball]

You are waiting for someone who wants to hammer??? It won't be me, because I never saw the point in the first place....I'd hammer Jily, Sathoris, Izak, hell even IceGuy at this point--but DonJosh I have to hear a response first.

[glowball]

DonJosh's lynch is the most informative one.

We

established that ages ago.

That we doesn't include ME and I don't go along sheeping to others will, WHY?! Because scum are out there too and they could be behind this plan. Frankly, I am surprised how many people stand in line and do what they are told. Scumleaders or Scaredscum...ugh

I want to hear from DonJosh if you expect ME to hammer.

[glowball]

glowball, if you have a plan that will give us more information than pops' one, I'm more than willing to hear it.

I don't have one as well though out, I've already said. I am not good with numbers- plus I'd rather not waste my breathe on people who've decided DonJosh is the best lynch. I mean if we are going to lynch I'd rather lynch jily and have forest protect DonJosh at least then we don't waste tomorrow lynching jily since she's obvscum(I did a re-read)

[glowball]

someone copy and past the plan please

[glowball]

onlyifDonJosh-scum or DonJosh-quack, 4.0
Empking protects forest_air
Forest air protects jill
Jill protects glowball.
Sathoris protects Uncle pain
Izak protects Iceguy
popsofctown protects Empking
IceGuy protects popsofctown
glowball protects Empking
Uncle Pain protects popsofctown

DonJosh is Doc:

forest->jill
jill-> goomba
empking->Sathoris
Sathoris->popsofctown
goomba->uncle pain
popsofctown->forest
uncle pain-> goomba
glowball->forest
iceguy->Sathoris

VOTE: jilynne1991
IGMEOY: Sathoris&IceGuy

[glowball]

Yep, obvscum just got... um... obvscummier?

VOTE: jilynne1991

Apok > jill
jill > goomba
empking > Sathoris
Sathoris > popsofctown
goomba > uncle pain
popsofctown > Apok
uncle pain > goomba
glowball > Apok
iceguy > Sathoris

Assuming everyone went by this:

Well, the fact that jilynne survived a quacking means she's pretty much confirmed scum.

Uncle Pain survived, so I'm pretty sure that makes me a doc.

I also survived, Uncle's doc too, unless he's scum.

IceGuy can't be a quack, otherwise Sath would have died from Emp's protection.

Sathoris also can't be a quack.

EITHER at least one of glowball and pops is a doc, OR they are both scum. So basically, if one of them flips scum, the other one is doc or scum. One flipping doc means nothing, apart from narrowing down the options. One flipping quack confirms the other as a doc.

I guess Emp must have been the NK then.

Or somebody ditched the plan, and all of what I said is invalid.

I think that covers it. That's just analysis of N1 though, we'll need to look at it with regard to N0.

As I said in a PM to the mod, I will be V/LA until next Thursday or Friday.

Check the bolded: It seems like you hinted at the plan possibly not going as planned. Nothing shows that things didn't go as planned, so what makes you think that?

FoS:Izak

[glowball]

Quick post here due to limited access.

Glow, WTF? I have no clue why you think that's scummy.

jilynne, you are confirmed scum. STFU. Nobody believes a word you say.

And pops, why should I have been the NK?

Check the bolded: It seems like you hinted at the plan possibly not going as planned. Nothing shows that things didn't go as planned, so what makes you think that?

FoS:Izak

I didn't say it was scummy- why are you freaking? I just asked what makes you think that someone didn't follow the plan?

[glowball]

I have been looking this over and I have to take back my first statement about IceGuy. If Sathoris is town, there is NO WAY IceGuy is scum. If IceGuy was scum or quack then Sathoris(as town) would have died last night. IceGuy is most likely a doctor unless Sathoris is scum. Although they could both be scum.

So,given that every possible scenario has to have IceGuy as Doc if you have Sathoris as town. If you have sathoris as scum then IceGuy can be Quack or Doc. IceGuy CANNOT be scum without Sathoris also being scum...think about it and tell me if that makes sense to you...

[glowball]

I have been looking this over and I have to take back my first statement about IceGuy. If Sathoris is town, there is NO WAY IceGuy is scum. If IceGuy was scum or quack then Sathoris(as town) would have died last night. IceGuy is most likely a doctor unless Sathoris is scum. Although they could both be scum.

So,given that every possible scenario has to have IceGuy as Doc if you have Sathoris as town. If you have sathoris as scum then IceGuy can be Quack or Doc. IceGuy CANNOT be scum without Sathoris also being scum...think about it and tell me if that makes sense to you...

btw the point of this was to propose we test Sathoris' alignment and we would come out of that with either confirmed town(IceGuy) or confirmed scum for lynching the next day (Sathoris)

[glowball]

glowball's protect is a bit of a wild card, and doesn't need to be on me. You're right, a single protect line on me is probably a better idea. Glowball can protect you. Is that suitable?

No- he's scum.

[glowball]

...you could read the rules

[glowball]

Currently, I like pops' plan best, but I propose a slightly modified version:

Uncle Pain -> goomba
IceGuy -> popsofctown
Apocalyptica -> glowball
popsofctown -> Apocalyptica
Sathoris -> Apocalyptica
goomba -> IceGuy
glowball -> popsofctown

It doesn't make sense to waste Apocalyptica on a double protect (he is a confirmed quack, so he can test glowball, who is currently the scummiest player and also never single protected). Also, he should be protected by two people which are likely doctors.

Neutral conclusions:
- If I die, goomba is quack or scum, and likely scum, since both Uncle Pain and Sathoris must be scum for goomba to be a quack. We lynch goomba and if he flips town, we have two confirmed scum. -> WIN.
- If glowball dies, she was town. If she flips quack, popsofctown is a doctor.
- If goomba dies, Uncle Pain is not a doctor, so popsofctown is a doctor, and Sathoris is scum, so I'm the quack. If goomba flips town, Uncle Pain is a non-quack.

- If Sathoris dies and flips doctor or quack, goomba is a non-quack, and I'm a doctor. If he flips quack, popsofctown and goomba are scum.

- If Uncle Pain dies and flips doctor or quack, goomba is a non-quack. If he flips quack, popsofctown is a doctor, and goomba is scum.
- If popsofctown dies, and glowball is the quack, I'm either quack or scum. If he's scum, I'm the quack. When popsofctown flips town, Sathoris is a doctor or scum; if I'm the quack, Sathoris is scum.
- If Apokalyptica dies, popsofctown and Sathoris are non-doctors, and Uncle Pain and glowball are doctors, which makes goomba a non-quack.

Survival conclusions are pretty straightforward (protector is either quack or scum or target is scum), with the exception of glowball (if she survives, she is scum).

Nothing in your plan suggests that Sathoris will die, so can you explain? Besides that the plan sounds good although all of these plans are tilted to personal reads. While I've continuously seen certain players get free passes to not be in the loop and I just think town is cheating themselves in this aspect.

[glowball]

Nothing in your plan suggests that Sathoris will die, so can you explain?

Scum NK.

Besides that the plan sounds good although all of these plans are tilted to personal reads.

Of course they are. Scumhunting still plays a role, although a lesser one as usual.

OKay I think pops is tied to his plan and I'd rather incorporate testing Sathoris alignment by Apok into the test. Although I see all sides, so whatever plan we come up with is cool...I guess there isn't much work to be done once we all agree on a plan.

[glowball]

K...why don't we just vote for which plan is best. I liked Uncle Pain's plan initially but I am for whatever but all this is just getting boring...where does everyone else stand?

[glowball]

have you proposed a plan, did I miss it?

[glowball]

Oh I meant like a plan involving everyone...like the one UnclePain made

[glowball]

In Pops and IceGuy's plan I just see people getting overlooked and nothing about that sits well with me, I mean Uncle Pain's plan has everyone involved without the double protects people will be outed- it provides a reasonable amount of information.

In reality, I'd prefer Pops' plan if Uncle's is out of the question.

[glowball]

IceGuy’s plan from #383 sounds well thought-out but I still dislike the double protections. They sacrifice an increase of information for the protection of players. IMHO the information is definitely more important to town than the protection of non-confirmed players and still arguably more important than the (safer) protection of confirmed players.

Not any more. We'll be down to 5-2 after this lynch, and will be down to at least 4-2. A confirmed townie such as Apo is very important in this situation.

Also, my plan only has one double protect that does hamper information collecting (on Apo), the me/glowball double protect will gather information about me, since glowball will flip.

I want uncle pain-> pops, iceguy->glowball, and pops->Iceguy. The other ones I really don't care about and don't see a strong case for. Could we accommodate those ones and do whatever you wish with the rest?
Uncle pain ->pops confirms UP's sanity to himself, which I like.
iceguy->glowball has explosive info as a side effect of the iceguy-glowball scum pairing being impossible.
As dramatic as it is, the long spiel I typed out works, so me protecting Iceguy will either rescue him, important when he might become conftown, or it wins the game instantly for the town.

I have popsofctown -> IceGuy in my plan. IceGuy -> glowball is worthless (I can be doctor or quack, and she can be town or scum), and I want her alignment confirmed by quack since she is the scummiest player by far. And I don't see any merit in the Uncle Pain -> popsofctown protect, it doesn't give anybody extra information.

Alright, so since when am I the scummiest player by far? By your own reads- or the reads of others? Not to mention, this was exactly what I was talking about- these slanted plans. We could just as well test Sathoris' alignment and if he's town we know IceGuy is town- but if Sathoris is scum we'll know IceGuy can be quack or scum.

I just find it hard to trust a probable partner to Sathoris in this particular plan. Sathoris is already AtE with making sure it's known that he will die in UnclePain's plan, which isn't a fact...if he is scum, he'll live.

[glowball]

Okay, what’s with this?

Code: Select all

IceGuy        → Apokalyptika
glowball      → Sathoris
izakthegoomba → glowball
Sathoris      → Uncle Pain
Uncle Pain    → popsofctown
popsofctown   → IceGuy
Apokalyptika  → izakthegoomba

This fulfils the wishes of popsofctown and Sathoris and also satisfies me. IceGuy is (from my PoV) a likely doctor and as such a good choice to protect Apokalyptika. izakthegoomba has the noose around his neck as in my original plan.

Cross-post update after reading glowball: glowball won’t like the plan. :/

No...it's fine. I mean if everyone agrees I'll do what I am told but I REALLY don't want to protect Sathoris and I make no guarantees in that area. Plus I think his aligment should be tested. Why don't we switch izak and Sathoris? I mean I have a scum read on both of them, but at least this way I am not stuck protecting the scummier of the two.

[glowball]

Sathoris whines whenever someone suggests a plan that gathers increased info about him. It's extremely scummy.

THANK.
YOU.

[glowball]

Everytime a good plan is posted people start changing things and they turn out crappier.

I mean look at this:

glowball → izakthegoomba
izakthegoomba → glowball

Scum protecting scum,

Apokalyptika → Sathoris
Uncle Pain → popsofctown

Two quacks killing town. Scum won't NK because two kills is already enough. No fucking info about anyone else but people dying.

Shiiiiiit

Okay so here we go again with you pushing your own reads in order to not agree with the plan...

How about you think about this. SCUM WILL NOT NK BECAUSE THEY CANNOT without outing themselves. Everyone is being protected by someone and we already have 2 quacks outed and very surely another one if we go through with this plan.

[glowball]

that works for me.

[glowball]

I vote for the plan in post 404

it won't happen because I won't protect Sathoris...

[glowball]

I think he's scum. I posted my case.

[glowball]

I don't HAVE to do anything. We are playing a game and at this point 4 people have proposed plans...one if not both scum are probably proposing plans...I will not follow something that is scum motivated or even beneficial to one of my scum reads unless I am sure that scum can be caught as a result. Example: Normally I wouldn't have agreed with Sathoris' plan(because I think he is scum) but I see those outcomes as identifying scum

[glowball]

Glowball isn't a quack. How often have I mentioned that if I die from Glowball's protect she's scum. If she's a doctor she would've mentioned the possibility of me dieing because she's a quack. The fact that she didn't means she never thought of the possibility.

Well let's just use some common sense- there is only one quack left. There is a higher probability of me being a doc from my POV. I've done some process of elimination and I am only a quack if Pops is Scum/IceGuy is Doc. Now that is a huge possibility except for the fact that I don't have a scum read on Pops. I think it is much more likely that UnclePain/Pops is quack given that if UnclePain is quack then izak is defscum.

I was for going with whatever plan we vote on, however it doesn't seem like all of us agree anyhow. It we come to a firm decision that most agree on I may just decide that it is what is best for town.

[glowball]

glow, I don't know what you're on that makes you think you're a doctor. If I'm scum you're a doctor or scum with me, so I can't even follow your reasoning.

You protected scum N0. N1, you protected town with me. Since I protected town N0 and that town didn't die, I'm somewhat more likely to be a doctor than you are. So you are a pretty likely quack. (although everyone's odds are less than 50% of course)

My conclusions are based on my reads 2 that are fairly strong: Izak is scum, and/or Sathoris is scum.

Give Izak being scum...wait. *facepalm* I am reading my own notes and getting confused. I mean that UnclePain is probably a quack since I believe that Izak is scum...although I guess you are right, I told you guys I'm no good with this analyzing numbers thing.

Cool whatever, plan 404 since that is what you guys want....let's roll with it.

[glowball]

Alright, plan of attack anyone?
We have no results because of nullified actions...I sent in my protect which leads me to believe that I am a quack, but scums aimed for Sathoris just in case I backed out?

Because of the retroactive kill, I am leaning towards Pops being scum...Night one we both protected Apokalyptika and I think the mod error could mean she should have died but did not, meaning one of us is quack and the other is scum. Just speculation though, I don't really know how to handle this situation.

This is lylo, we cannot no lynch- we've got to lynch scum today.

[glowball]

Because of the retroactive kill, I am leaning towards Pops being scum...Night one we both protected Apokalyptika and I think the mod error could mean she should have died but did not, meaning one of us is quack and the other is scum. Just speculation though, I don't really know how to handle this situation.

Exactly. And since I'm confirmed town and pops targeted me N2, he can't be the quack.

VOTE: glowball

More analysis coming soon.

Although I agree, the MOD said all of the Quack actions for N2 were nullified- so it doesn't matter who the quack targeted...the only possible kills for the night were the scum kill and the mod kill.

But you are most definitely confirmed town....

3 Quacks
6 Doctors
3 Goons

Quacks-
Empking
Apokalyptika

Docs-
zMuffinMan
LittleGrey
DonJosh
Sathoris
IceGuy(alive/confirmed)


So we are looking for 1 Doc, 1 Quack, and 2 Goons

UnclePain-
Protected Empking with Pops Night 0 (inconclusive, since we don't know who LittleGrey and zMuffinMan protected)
Protected Izak with Jily (scum) Night 1

Quack Theories: For Uncle Pain to be a quack, Izak would have to be scum. Pops could be Doc or Scum given that we are unsure if Muff or LittleGrey also targeted Empking.

Izak-
Protected Sathoris Night 0(inconclusive, since we don't know who LittleGrey and zMuffinMan protected)
Protected UnclePain Night 1

Quack Theories: For Izak to be quack, UnclePain would have to be scum. Obviously Sathoris is town, so that means that either Izak is Doc/Scum or LittleGrey amd/or zMuffinMan targeted Sathoris as well Night 0.

Pops-
Protected Empking with Uncle Night 0 (inconclusive, since we don't know who LittleGrey and zMuffinMan protected)
Protected Apokalyptika with Glowball(Me) Night 1 (Somewhat inconclusive given the recent retroactive kill)

Quack Theories: For Pops to be Quack, reasonably that would make me a doctor since Apokalyptika lived HOWEVER given the modkill I heavily suspect that one of us is Quack and the other is scum.

Glowball-
Protected Jily(scum) with IceGuy Night 0 (Ice Guy is doctor, if I am a quack it wouldn't have killed EVEN IF jily was town- which she wasn't SO INCONCLUSIVE)
Protected Apokalyptika Night 1 (Somewhat inconclusive given the recent retroactive kill)

Quack Theories: I have never properly been tested, although there is a reasonable chance that I am scum in my modkill speculation. Both myself and Pops protected Apok and she lived only to be later modkilled, sounds like she should have died Night 1. Meaning there is a Quack/Scum pairing in myself and Pops.


SCUM PAIRINGS

Uncle Pain	Sathoris	izakthegoomba	popsofctown	glowball	IceGuy
doctor	doctor	scum	scum	quack	doctor
scum	doctor	doctor	scum	quack	doctor
doctor	doctor	scum	quack	scum	doctor
scum	doctor	doctor	quack	scum	doctor

***This table is based on my modkill theory


I would recommed that IceGuy UNVOTES we have two scum, meaning a 1-2 hammer is fairly possible. I also think that since it seems likely at least IMO that there is scum/quack within myself and Pops that we cross vote each other to hinder our ability to quick hammer. That way the decision is in your hands. I will wait for IceGuy to UNVOTE so that I don't put Pops at L-1 before we've had enough discussion.

[glowball]

this doesn't work for me. I can't play. A dethy open with a mod error that isn't fully and clearly
described.

The resolution doesn't appear just, either at a glance.

If apok was just supposed to die N1, just give us a chance to replay planning for N1 and N1. Jillyne would still be lynched, no one would argue otherwise. Blocking quacks tonight and killing apok just gave scum a bonus Nk, if the error was a missed apok kill/quacking. If it wasn't, I need more info to play this game, it's an open.

I agree that this sucks, no matter what end you are on this game just got a whole lot more ridiculous and slanted. Problem with replaying Night 1, the ramifications. If Apok was supposed to die then she would have never have been able to tell us that jily was scum, GRANTED that was the plan but you are asking the mod to assume that Apok would have followed that plan... Then Emp's death. Now Sathoris' flip and all that has transpired makes this game horrible for scum. We might as well take the win for town or have the mod close out the game. Blocking the night actions is all the mod could do because Apok was basically a confirmed quack and any information gained from that player slot is contaminated. Try to think about it from the mod's POV...we definitely cannot go back now roles are outed and that would just give a chance for scum to replan how to kill and I don't think anyone would be able to forget or leave their troubles behind. Possibly a new game? New roles. Just close this out...I'd like the easy town win but you know.

[glowball]

I'm not sure why it wasn't obvious that the modkill on apok was because he should have died N1. Posted the logic that should have been used in the dead qt.

uM...i SAID THAT!

I am pretty disappointed Izak and myself didn't get to go crazy with our lylo plan...whatevs.

Muffin was killed Night 0 because we figured that the players with the most experience time wise would have been protected and that Muffin was least likely to be protected and therefore be a successful kill.

As far the game play, I think you guys were great. No offense to jily but I would have loved a more dedicated scumteam. I mean we got her to L-1 immediately and she didn't come in to self-hammer. All of that planning time that they had really crippled us. I will say that planning wise, you guys are lucky that the scumteam was basically newbies because it seems like all the plans were slanted towards our sacrifice for the team whether we were scum or town no one really cared about whether or not we died.

[glowball]

Also, I think it would be hard for people to rid themselves of their preconceived notions about this game. It gives everyone an upfront advantage to planning...