TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[jasonT1981]

Jil hasn't been replaced yet, right?

MOD: no, I have been having problems with finding replacements in games lately.

[izakthegoomba]

Try sigging it. Might help.

[killerjester]

I'm pretty much waiting for Vifam to make his case. My vote on him was actually kind of an OMGUS vote. He was unnecessarily asking me why I hadn't voted yet so I voted him. During that conversation, he was misreping me which actually made me confident in the vote. One of his posts that really stood out to me was where he posted his reads. Kind of seemed forced.

I'm still suspicious of him but less so because the wagon on him sort of just built up.

Thanks. I do recall you stating you originally voted him for shallows reasons and gradually grew into feeling stronger about your vote. I was simply curious why you've turned around to feel less confident about your place on the wagon, and I feel you've explained yourself well. I think we're all waiting for Vifam's response.. just a bit

@ killerjester: from your language it seems like you think there is no chance that vifam is scum. Is this correct?

No, sorry if it came off that way. I was actually quite conflicted about Vifam's alignment back around my #177 post. It was enough uncertainty, in my opinion, to withdraw my vote.

how am I meant to explain why I'm not voting for someone other than to say I don't feel anyone is sticking out as scum. This is because all of the posting thus far has come off to me like townies bickering and typical early game sheeping. The start of most games comes off like that to me. When I feel it is time I will lay down a vote, but I will not be pressured into it.

I'm of the belief that I should only lay down a vote when I feel someone is deserving of it. Because it shows that you genuinly believe a person to be dodgy as fuck, when you always have a vote on someone especially if you shift it round alot it comes off wishy washy (and potentially sheepish or WIFOM)

Apologies ahead of time for cropping your post, I trimmed it down to two parts - one was directed at me and the other I have a question about.

Don't feel pressured into voting for a

particular

person. However, I do want to see a vote come from you onto whomever you genuinely believe to be scummy or at least worth following-up on. I find it very hard to believe you don't find anyone in this game slightly more scummy than the next guy, are you even trying to scumhunt?

And on your opinion of vote hopping, well... I've been vote hopping. To a count, I've voted for

6 different people already

. Do you find those traits you associate with vote hopping (being wishy washy, sheeping, or WIFOM) apply to me? I'll be honest with you, I don't like the way you're playing. You're not helping the town very much and it seems more to be self-sufficient behavior, out only to see that you survive. The only reason my vote isn't on you right now is the following...

I don't think Vifam joining the Jil wagon early on is anything special, it was a viable wagon at a time when not much else was going on. As for Jil, me staying on that bandwagon was more because I felt that there were already a lot of people pressuring Vifam so I figured I could do more by pressuring and questioning another player. But since it looks like it might take a while to replace Jilynne, I don't see much reason to stay on that bandwagon.

We cannot bandwagon more than one target at a time. That's simply not how the game works. Yes, other scum

do

exist, but your vote is your entire statement to the town. Either you feel Vifam is the most scummy and your vote belongs there, or you have doubts and you keep your vote on Jil and you tell us why you have doubts on the bandwagon. My question about Vifam joining the Jil wagon was more-so asking to detail, since you think both are pretty scummy, why Vifam would have voted for Jil? If you saw nothing out of the ordinary then why are you so convinced that Vifam is scum? Switching your vote to Vifam at this point seems only to appease the town, because I pointed out what was off about you. All your reasoning seems to be just repeating what everyone else has said. You're looking scummier and scummier to me, and I'm

very confident

my vote is placed where it ought to be.

I think I've found *the* one. Anyone else down for lynching Leon? Or should I *gasp* propose, first?

[Pine]

Guh. This has been hell week at work (I should have declared V/LA) PLUS I forgot to bookmark this.

Apologies to all, I'll start catching up.

[Zinger2099]

Jil hasn't been replaced yet, right?

MOD: no, I have been having problems with finding replacements in games lately.

*gasp* JT! YOU'RE ALLIVE?!







*snicker*

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

After re-reading the game, I have to admit that despite the RVS thing, MoI does look town to me, he is asking good questions and I can see him scumhunting. I also have townreads on Pinky and the Brain, vezok, Zelink, and killerjester. On the other hand, I have scumreads on Zinger, PeregrineV, and Leonshade. Zinger is not putting forth any sort of content whatsoever, despite doing some pretty decent scumhunting in Super Hero Mafia. PeregrineV and Leonshade both look like they are active lurking, not putting much content out, and not really committing to any reads.

[vezokpiraka]

Jil hasn't been replaced yet, right?

MOD: no, I have been having problems with finding replacements in games lately.

*gasp* JT! YOU'RE ALLIVE?!







*snicker*

Do you have some kind of post restriction? Or are you some kind of troll that didn't get a vig and now is trolling by posting?

[PeregrineV]

@Pappums- You caught me, this is only my third day in a row posting (oops, it's Saturday now so I guess I skipped Friday ).

My vote is on chkballin for fake promising reads, but not liking the posts of DavidX. I think MoI is town, but probably because I like the posting style.

Leaning town on Killer, want Marco to throw out some reads while waiting.

[chkballin]

Our apologies for taking

way too long

on this. Had to confer with one another and schedule a time to get together as Ballin was behind and CHK didn't want to play this game by himself.

chkballin's DX case

- He jokes, jokes, jokes, jokes... and FINALLY gets his serious face on when town starts to turn their eyes in his general direction. Are jokes scummy? Not in and of themselves, no, but when you're not scum hunting? It's fluff at best. An attempt to say "Hey guys, I'm here. Like me!" without giving anything credible or worthwhile information to the game as a whole.

- Never in my days have I seen an RVS vote hop onto ANOTHER RVS vote. Something just doesn't feel right with me here. I don't see any town motivation for it.

- Interacts with Magna semi-defensively. We all understand that questions end in question marks; what's the point in saying that? Obviously the point Magna made was worth responding to, otherwise MoI wouldn't have wanted David to respond. All that just to say that he holds his ground with the mass name claiming debacle? It just feels like he's making an excuse for not responding to Magna by way of continuing the nonsense joking with 3isFrench.

- this post has already been addressed for how scummy it is. "I mean, I want to give my scum partner some time to post an accurate defense. Y'know, so it's not

completely obvious

that I'm bussing you." That's exactly how that posts reads to me. Scum not wanting to look like obvscum, afraid his vote on Vifam won't be taken as genuine. "Waiting for a defense" is his exact wording... then why does he contradict himself here by saying that Vifam's defense is shotty? He tries to justify himself and I find it to be completely full of garbage. Tries it again before going V/LA. Why is he so concerned with this? Why not just say "I've answered this" and be done with it? Doesn't read as town motivated to me.

- WAY TOO DEFENSIVE about a single vote. What's he worried about?

- asks for something that's basically already been given. This tells me that he's not paying attention to the thread as much as he should. He CERTAINLY watches out for his own name, but head-claiming? That seems less important until he feels the need to fluff his ISO with something he may think is pro-town.

~

CHK

Reads

Meransiel - Obv hasn't posted much for any sort of read...
vezokpiraka - Town
MagnaofIllusion - Genuine scumhunting, seems to follow through with most lines of questioning; town
PeregrineV - Generally speaking low on content;
Pappums Leather Jacket - Active scumhunting, adequate content; town
Zinger2099 - No real content, besides not wanting to be vigged;
marco1610 - The back and forth with Vifam didn't sit well with me, but just on Vifam's part. Marco just seemed like high-strung town.
Pvt Slate - That post calling out people on Vifam's wagon seemed to be more of an intimidation tactic, I want to see what comes of this; null/leaning scum pending certain flips.
Nero Cain - Had a little moment similar to the "look, they are doing it too" theory, but nothing that really worries me right now; null/leaning town
David Xanatos - See case above; scum
easjo682 - Not a fan of playstyle;
jilynne1991 - This wagon was ridiculous nothing led me to assume that she was scum, I just got a newb vibe; probtown
Pinky and the Brain - Called jily out for a lack of content when at that time their own player slot hadn't brought much more, if anything, to the table besides indifference to mass claiming; null/leaning scum.
ZeL1nK - Claimed vig...No real thoughts on this unless we see another day
andrew94 - Skimmy McSkimPants. Actively lurking; leaning scum
izakthegoomba -Lack of content.
Pine - Is Pine even playing??? I kid. I kid.
Chevre - No content.
ThAdmiral - Helpful and scumhunting; town
Vifam - Sheeping, deflecting; however it is the feeling of this hydra that he could just be newb STRONGLY leaning scum
Rodion - Little suspicious of the player slot, but we do not feel that David and Rodion are of the same alignment...
Leonshade - Doesn't seem to want to rock the boat much, tries to appease town; leaning scum
ThreeIsFrench -

OH I WILL GET TO THIS!

killerjester - Doesn't seem too concerned with anyone else's thoughts, active; town
Oversoul - No content
silverdrummer - Still has an active RVS vote, which came off as OMGUS, hard to believe they haven't found anyone worthy of voting...

PROBLEMS WITH 3isFrench:

Lame reason for voting Vifam - Calls Vifam out for naming 5 people as scum when it is perfectly reasonable in a 27 player game to have that many suspects. Saw this vote as weak...

Double votes Vifam and when questioned has this reasoning:

oh the irony.

nero why would you assume that? not a good thing to assume.

VOTE: vifan

TIF:

a) You were already voting Vifam. Who did you think you were voting?
b) (Ignoring the fact that you were already voting Vifam,) what prompted you to vote Vifam here?

The VC didnt have my name on it; thought maybe i forgot to vote. Same reasons, as previously but with the added evidence, i just voted due to thinking i was off the wagon

Well after looking through all of the vote counts and noticing that ThreeisFrench was represented accurately in all of them, with NO notations of editing, I can only take that excuse for double vote as a lie. feel free to check Mod's ISO here

ThreeisFrench is obviously lying, and why would you lie about something that could be attributed to a little mistake. Strongly leaning scum.

~

BALLIN

[Leonshade]

I don't think Vifam joining the Jil wagon early on is anything special, it was a viable wagon at a time when not much else was going on. As for Jil, me staying on that bandwagon was more because I felt that there were already a lot of people pressuring Vifam so I figured I could do more by pressuring and questioning another player. But since it looks like it might take a while to replace Jilynne, I don't see much reason to stay on that bandwagon.

We cannot bandwagon more than one target at a time. That's simply not how the game works. Yes, other scum

do

exist, but your vote is your entire statement to the town. Either you feel Vifam is the most scummy and your vote belongs there, or you have doubts and you keep your vote on Jil and you tell us why you have doubts on the bandwagon. My question about Vifam joining the Jil wagon was more-so asking to detail, since you think both are pretty scummy, why Vifam would have voted for Jil? If you saw nothing out of the ordinary then why are you so convinced that Vifam is scum? Switching your vote to Vifam at this point seems only to appease the town, because I pointed out what was off about you. All your reasoning seems to be just repeating what everyone else has said. You're looking scummier and scummier to me, and I'm

very confident

my vote is placed where it ought to be.

I rarely have strong enough reads early on in D1 to consider one player scummier than another, so I consider my D1 vote to be a tool with which to pressure people. I now consider Vifam scummy enough for a vote, but at the time of my initial post suspecting him, I wanted to stay on Jil because I felt that there might be more to her/her player slot. A voice can easily drown out in a large crowd, so I was hoping to bring the town's attention to another possible scum instead of being just another vote on a bandwagon. Now I feel Vifam is scummy enough to merit a vote above everyone else, however.

Why would Vifam have voted for Jil? Early bussing is possible, as are multiple scum teams. I don't like to speculate on that this early on, though, which is why I don't consider it all that interesting at the moment. When I said I was nothing out of the ordinary, I was specifically referring to Vifam's vote on Jil, not on his other behavior.

There's nothing I can say to your comments about appeasing town, I can only hope that my actions will show that you're wrong.

Jil hasn't been replaced yet, right?

MOD: no, I have been having problems with finding replacements in games lately.

*gasp* JT! YOU'RE ALLIVE?!
*snicker*

You aren't voting for anyone and most of your posts have been either fluff or one-word answers to questions. Are you actually going to do anything in this game, other than answering "yes" to this question?

[silverdrummer]

Hehe, sorry for the not posting. I keep going to, then get turned away by the whole switching accounts thing.

I have had my vote on andrew since RVS, yes, so...
UNVOTE: andrew94

Vifam is... I don't know what to think. See, I do believe that Vifam's behaviour is newbish, but... The fact that he's made an Alt account kind of nulls that. If he thinks he's not all that new, then we can't let him off for being new.
For this, I'm going to VOTE: Vifam, for now.


Also: What's with all the claiming already? I thought that the consensus was that we wouldn't claim, but we've already had an Earl (

My Name is Earl

) and a Vigilante claim.


Finally: ZeL1nK?
They aren't really helping in any way. Seemingly joking the whole time, avoiding Hydra head claiming with no reason (as far as I can see)... I don't really know what to think, really. This post really doesn't help either.

The views in this post are solely the views of the cjdrum side of the Hydra.
silverbullet999 may or may not agree with any or all of this post, but in his absence cjdrum still has to post his own thoughts opinions.

~ cjdrum

[ZeL1nK]

Am I the only one that read easjo's #269 and saw "I am scum" repeated about 50 times?

They aren't really helping in any way. Seemingly joking the whole time, avoiding Hydra head claiming with no reason (as far as I can see)...

Helping what?

Joking about what?

As for not claiming heads, why do you care?

Zinger is not putting forth any sort of content whatsoever, despite doing some pretty decent scumhunting in Super Hero Mafia. PeregrineV and Leonshade both look like they are active lurking, not putting much content out, and not really committing to any reads.

My thoughts on Zinger are pretty much the same, and while I'm not sure about Leon, I'm pretty sure Pere's 'active lurking' isn't an indication of alignment.

[silverdrummer]

They aren't really helping in any way. Seemingly joking the whole time, avoiding Hydra head claiming with no reason (as far as I can see)...

Helping what?

With the game...

Joking about what?

All kinds of things. See your ISO.

As for not claiming heads, why do you care?

It means you have something to hide, which can't be good.

~ cjdrum

[ZeL1nK]

I have plenty to hide. What of it?

Also, I don't tell jokes. I am always serious.

As for 'helping', what exactly are you expecting from me?

[Pinky and the Brain]

Yeah, Vifam, are you trying to get yourself lynched or something?

Has Jason gone and stuck a bloody jester in this game?

I don't like this post. It feels like a "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M UNINFORMED MAJORITY LOOK AT ME ASK ABOUT JESTERS"-post.


Leonshade's move onto the Vifam wagon is bad.

Spoiler: #236, emphasis mine

I don't like Vifam trying to deflect the suspicion on him onto someone else, but

(A) I'm going to keep my vote on the Jilynne slot for now. Vifam has enough votes on him at the moment

, and I want to keep a close eye on whoever will replace Jil.

So, as has been articulated, this post is kinda

supporting the wagon yet not really supporting it and also distancing from it but also leaving himself room to actually support the wagon at a later point

.

The given reason for this? (A): Vifam has enough votes.

Spoiler: #270, emphasis mine

God damm it.


I'll defend myself later.

This is starting to become ridiculous.

Unvote
Vote: Vifam

(B) Vifam seems to be avoiding questioning, and

that combined with

him trying to deflect suspicion is making him look like scum to me.

Vifam joined the Jil wagon early on, what are your feelings on this? And why do you think Jil is scummier than Vifam?

I don't think Vifam joining the Jil wagon early on is anything special, it was a viable wagon at a time when not much else was going on.

(C) As for Jil, me staying on that bandwagon was more because I felt that there were already a lot of people pressuring Vifam so I figured I could do more by pressuring and questioning another player. But since it looks like it might take a while to replace Jilynne, I don't see much reason to stay on that bandwagon.

Here, Leonshade moves onto the wagon, even though there has actually been a net movement of MORE votes onto the Vifam wagon.

(B) suggests that previously,

by itself

, Vifam's deflection of suspicion was not enough to convince Leonshade that Vifam was scum.

However, surely then, Leonshade's reason for not voting Vifam earlier would have been that (by itself) the deflection of suspicion was not enough to earn his vote. As we've seen [see (A)] that was NOT his reason for not voting Vifam, and herein lies the contradiction.


(C): When he tries to reconcile his earlier stance of not voting Vifam with his vote now, he uses the excuse that jily's slot is taking a while to get replaced. Which a reasonable justification for unvoting jily.

However, it is NOT a reasonable justification for voting Vifam, who has more votes than he did when Leonshade avoided voting Vifam before [see (A)]. Because that reason should still be valid for not voting Vifam.

Leonshade is trying to make it look like he had to choose between voting jily and Vifam, which of course is NOT the case. There are plenty of great people to vote (Pappums' list is good).


UNVOTE: Vifam
VOTE: Leonshade

(Haven't conferred with diddin, but I like my case.)

Pinky and the Brain - Called jily out for a lack of content when at that time their own player slot hadn't brought much more, if anything, to the table besides indifference to mass claiming; null/leaning scum.

With all due respect, this is stupid. We hadn't posted yet (obviously I'm excluding /confirms) and thus hadn't had an opportunity to comment on anything but jily had posted and had the opportunity to comment and she didn't (or DIDDIN'T! HA! Yeah, I stole that pun off somebody).

Vifam is... I don't know what to think. See, I do believe that Vifam's behaviour is newbish, but... The fact that he's made an Alt account kind of nulls that. If he thinks he's not all that new, then we can't let him off for being new.
For this, I'm going to VOTE: Vifam, for now.

Whatttt is this crap.

If a midget doesn't think he's a midget, is he no longer a midget? Should he then be allowed onto, say, Theme Park rides with a minimum height restriction (which he does not meet)?

Your reason for ruling out Vifam as newb(-town) is stupid and based on something completely arbitrary to the game. Try again, please.

Am I the only one that read easjo's #269 and saw "I am scum" repeated about 50 times?

Spoiler: easjo #269, font colour alterations mine

reading through, easjo682 first post is very sus. if you look at it. you will know it is wrong.

Is this refering to the fact that I don't think character reveal will help and therefore just get in they way?

@easjo682, you've yet to vote. Do you feel there is someone in 6 pages of talk scummy enough to deserve your vote? If not, why?

how am I meant to explain why I'm not voting for someone other than to say I don't feel anyone is sticking out as scum. This is because all of the posting thus far has come off to me like townies bickering and typical early game sheeping. The start of most games comes off like that to me. When I feel it is time I will lay down a vote, but I will not be pressured into it.

You guys...I am sooo sorry, but I really need to start cutting the crap out of my life, because I'm going to a math camp soon and then I'm trying to get into a boarding school, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to leave mafiascum, sorry. I really wish I didn't have to leave everyone like this, but I really don't want to waste my summer. I know I should have thought of this earlier, and I'm sorry for the inconvenience it caused you guys.

okay this post comes off as weird as hell, mostly cause I don't like people replacing out as soon as they come under a tiny bit of pressure. Not going to use this against the new person, I'll wait to see how they act.

I am of the philosophy that you should ALWAYS have your vote on someone.

Why?
I'm of the belief that I should only lay down a vote when I feel someone is deserving of it. Because it shows that you genuinly believe a person to be dodgy as fuck, when you always have a vote on someone especially if you shift it round alot it comes off wishy washy (and potentially sheepish or WIFOM)

@people in general:
can we not discuss roles when it's pure speculation, save it for discussing a claim and how likely the claim is true.

But.. surely a game based on identifying tells and using them to determine who is "Scum" is undermined by a "person" who has the posting habits of multiple people, especially if those people are completely anonymous? :/

meta is dangerous, people can easliy intentionally or unintentionally change it. I find you can't grab valid tells from meta

.

Blue: Null - wrong, but null.
Red: Scummy - trying to appear helpful.
Green: Slight-town/null - not backing down on personal views.

So you're exaggerating slightly.

It begs the question though: why are you not voting easjo?

~ Hoppster

[Meransiel]

Game awesome so far. Tell me when you're tunneling hard so I have a reason to catchup wall.

[Pappums Leather Jacket]

@Mod: Please prod chevre and oversoul

Also, this mass flake is exactly why everyone told jilynne she wasn't going to be allowed to be in 8 games at once. 'No, I can handle it, I've got tons of free time' she said.

[jasonT1981]

vollkan replaces Jilnne, thank you. Both have been prodded.

[vollkan]

Hello all. I will read up as soon as possible/

[vollkan]

First off, to get my standard "How I Play" PSA out of the way: I rank my suspects from 0 (absolutely town) - 100 (absolutely scum). Everybody starts at 50. Because I

don't

believe in towntells and am skeptical about most scumtells, it is common for people to stay at 50. 50 does not mean "no opinion" - it means "I don't see scumtells" from this person. Absent claims, need for deadline compromises, etc. I will always vote the person with the highest score.

16:

Vezok+5

for supporting a mass name-claim. Vezok is notorious Village Idiot, so Iam comfortable ascribing his support of a MC to opportunism rather than any thought-out strategy
17:

Vifam+5

for same reason, though this time it is the passive nature of the support ("no reason not too, but I'd hold up on it")
66:

Rodion+7

for trying to escalate the obv-early Vezok wagon to a fullclaim
96: Expand that with a further

Rodion+3

for a very weak defence of his original position (because he presents the fullclaim as if it is a point for consideration before a lynch, rather than an escalation of the situation)
114:

Pinky+5

for a weak boilerplate attack on my precedessor. Presenting as "fencesitting" the fact that my predecessor had a conflicting meta view on vezok not only has no bearing on this game, but is a misrep of her initiial statement
115:

Vifam+3

for sheeping 114
141:

Leon+7

for voting my predecessor based on a "defence" of vezok, when all she'd offered was a meta position. You can't "defend" somebody who isn't under attack - so this just screams of being a weak effort to join an existing wagon.

[vollkan]

*to be continued, obviously

[izakthegoomba]

I'm not sure I agree with that method of scumhunting, but whatever.

[jasonT1981]

Day 1 Vote count 3

Vifam 11- Marco, 3isFrench,Vezo, ZeL1nk, DavidX, THAdmiral, Nero, Izak, Rodion, Leonshade,Silver(L-3)
Leonshade 2- KillerJester, Pinky
vollkan 1 Vifam,
DavidX 1 - CHKBallin
ThAdmiral 1 - Chevre
Silver 1 - Andrew
Pine 1 - Oversoul
Chevre 1 - Pappum
Silverdrummer 1 - Slate
CHKBallin 1 - PeregrineV


V/LA: David Xantos, MOI
Prods: Oversoul (1) Cherve (1)

With 27 alive it takes 14 to lynch with a deadline of 12th August 12pm EST

[ThAdmiral]

@ killerjester: from your language it seems like you think there is no chance that vifam is scum. Is this correct?

No, sorry if it came off that way. I was actually quite conflicted about Vifam's alignment back around my #177 post. It was enough uncertainty, in my opinion, to withdraw my vote.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

We cannot bandwagon more than one target at a time. That's simply not how the game works.

I disagree. In fact I believe competing wagons is the ideal situation for town. Admittedly this normally happens towards the end of a day and not so much at the start.

@ chkballin: good case on dx. He's definitely shot up my scum reads list after that.
I don't really see the 3isFrench one though. By the same token why would scum lie if they could reasonably get away with "oops, my bad"?

@ leonshade: can I haz links to some of your other games pls?

Am I the only one that read easjo's #269 and saw "I am scum" repeated about 50 times?

Pretty sure it doesn't say that, bro.
Also getting pretty defensive about silverbullets comments, aren't we?

It begs the question though: why are you not voting easjo?

Well said.

[Oversoul]

Page 12 and I already got a damn prod. I am sorry guys, I completely forgot about this game. I am signed up for so many and I did this on a whim at 12 A.M.

I will post content when I get back to a computer, but for now I have a pretty big town read on Rodion and MagnaofIllusion.

About Vifam, I can't really say much as I haven't really looked into his posts, but I did see some sheeping.