Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Magister Ludi]

bvoigt

Day 1

@Ludi: Why would you prefer speculation over typical scumhunting?

WIFOM? I don't really know, but I'm going to trust scumhunting over setup speculation. And Cobbler has lied about his role, IMO.

Day Four:

P. Edit: I feel like spring was more likely as a vig kill. What do you think?

According to Albert, he recruited Katsuki because Kats saw his QT during Goofbash.

As far as I know, everyone started out with a town role PM except the two cult recruiters, so there's no need for any fakeclaim flavor. And I don't even see how having govern flavor out in the open helps scum fakeclaim anyway, since like you said, there wouldn't be two governors in the same game.

He goes from strongly against setup speculation, to doing some himself.

~~

But if he claims, it gives the cult more information about what they're up against, and about whether or not they'd want to recruit him.

Day Two: He implies he doesn't want town claiming, because it lets cult know 'what they are up against'. So then this clashes directly with day one, when he wants as much information as possible:

Also, what are you talking about when you mention "the fourth faction"?

Also, is there a special flavor name for your unrecruitableness?

it is important to me that you claim it.

@Battousai: I would also like to know flavor, please. Also, will the mod tell us that xvart is unable to be lynched?

Day Four

I would be in favor of Battousai claiming where he was last night.

I think Darox should fullclaim.

~~~

VOTE: Darox, I suppose.

Crappy vote here, contrasting completely with his early persona of badgering people to help lynch Cobblerfone for a variety of different reasons. Also, where did the cobble suspicion disappear to? This is a vast difference in game play from early to late game. Its not like cobble is dead on confirmed town to you now, et your suspicion is gone, as is your lynch energy

~~~

Is this claiming a guilty?

A very tepid way to responding to something most of us assumed was a guilty. This reads like he is read to give up and self vote, I would expect town, upon seeing the same thing he did, to come straight out as very confrontational about a 'guilty' they knew would be false, or claim something that made it plausable. He knew he couldn't call Herod cult, though, so he didn't have many options, and the one he choose doesn't show town mindset

just ISO'ed Tanarin, and his play has been scummier than I expected

Blows off the 'guilty' immdeiatly as if it doesn't exist, for some WIFOM stew right here on another player, Tanarin.

Well, even if he did claim a guilty on me, I wouldn't be convinced he's scum.

However, when Herod does say it wasn't a guilty, he makes sure to say what he would or would not have done. Several posts later he gets around to it, with some other speculation.

[Mr. Flay]

Fourth Vote Count of Day Four:

Darox - 7 (populartajo, bvoigt, Yosarian2, Seraphim, Cobblerfone, Battousai, ConSpiracy)
bvoigt - 3 (Magister Ludi, xvart, Zdenek)
populartajo - 3 (DrippingGoofball, Darox, Nobody Special)
DrippingGoofball - 2 (ooba, Lady Lambdadelta)
Zdenek - 1 (Flameaxe)

Not Voting: Bunnylover, Herodotus

With 18 voters present, it will take 10 votes to lynch.

[Bunnylover]

I believe Darox's claim.

Doesn't mean he's not culted, but I believe the claim.

If Kinetic tried to recruit me and failed Night 1 (I believe there was a N0), thus thinking I was an ABR recruit, then he didn't recruit Tanarin/Darox on that particular night.

I agree with this. With Darox claim, it makes much more sense why Kinetic was crazy about you.
For this to be true (which its looking likely), that means if Darox is culted, he isn't the night zero cult.

Blah not paying attention. It wasn't a anti-recruitment doctor that Darox is. But this is wifom, but its possible, if the cult have an ability to kill maybe it can only kill players that are town. Therefore since Darox protected DGB, he assumed that DGB was culted.
Although that just a bunch of wifom =/.

@Tajo: =/. Really a fake claim? Now I know im not the player to point this out, but are you paying attention? Unless your assuming that Darox is the night zero recruit, every player started out with a town role. Therefore Darox probably isn't fake claiming, the question is rather or not Darox is culted or not.

[Bunnylover]

Forgot

VOte: Tajo

[bvoigt]

Yos: See this post

bvoigt: Probably because a claimed protective role protecting the claimed cop two nights in a row is a pretty pro-town move. Just a guess.

when you link to the third iteration of the explanation of your claim, then there is something really wrong with it

hint: its a FAKECLAIM.

COME ON, EVERYBODY.

NS: why the vote?

Why would he fakeclaim when he presumably started with an actual town role?

@Ludi: At the beginning of Day 1, you were doing almost nothing but speculation about who would be recruited. My recent "speculation" was a result of ooba's claim and Darox's claim. Another difference is that yours was entirely WIFOM; mine was not.

There is a huge difference between claiming your role and claiming flavor. Once Cobbler and Battousai claimed a power (and Darox softclaimed), there was no reason to leave the rest of their role--the flavor--hidden. Also, the reason I thought Cobbler was fakeclaiming on Day 1, but no longer believe that anyone would fakeclaim: the claim increased his chances of surviving Day 1, but overall decreased his chances of avoiding a lynch. There's no longer a reason for scum to do that.

I've given up on Cobbler because, the fact is, he had no chance of being recruited after that Day 1.

How does making a case on Tanarin (which you cut out of that second-to-last quote) not show a town mindset? If I'm going to be lynched, I want to make a case on my suspects. Why do you call that case "WIFOM stew"? What don't you like about it?

[DrippingGoofball]

i just need that darox flip, that now im 100% is going to be scum, to get people to believe me DGB is indeed scum with him. ALL MAKES SENSE, the soft bussing, the transition to "lol tanarin is scum" to I BELIEVE THE CLAIM, lets LYNCH TAJO DERP.

So you want Darox to die in order to "prove" that I'm scum with Darox?

Why aren't you voting me, then? Why the particular order?

Do you know that Darox is culted with you, so that you can set up my mislynch the next day?

[Zdenek]

Though it's probably just a vig and an even-night vig.

I'm guessing Andrius was a scum kill.

Yes, I thought he made a good case against Cobbler, the player whom I thought was most likely to be scum on Day 1. What, in your opinion, is incorrect or scummy about that?

It's not that it's scummy; it's a bad reason to think that someone is town.

It's true that Katsuki lurked, but IIRC, he wasn't recruited until later in the game.

How do you know this?

I believe that Darox is the role he is claiming. I would have thought that as scum and lying about his day one protect, he'd have come up with a better lie than that. On the other hand, I don't think this helps his case that he's town.

I don't like Tajo's reaction to Darox's claim - I find the fact that he didn't include the quotes from Tanarin until asked odd.

. . . Tanarin likes to live dangerously.

What is this nonsense?

I'll be back later.

[populartajo]

i just need that darox flip, that now im 100% is going to be scum, to get people to believe me DGB is indeed scum with him. ALL MAKES SENSE, the soft bussing, the transition to "lol tanarin is scum" to I BELIEVE THE CLAIM, lets LYNCH TAJO DERP.

So you want Darox to die in order to "prove" that I'm scum with Darox?

Why aren't you voting me, then? Why the particular order?

Do you know that Darox is culted with you, so that you can set up my mislynch the next day?

HEY MANIPULATE LYING SCUMBAG

I POSTED THE REASON IN THE SAME VERY QUOTE YOU JUST POSTED:

however many noobs believe that "lol selfvote, and lol scumputer" are town moves despite "i have a master plan but lol i forgot to do it n1", "lynch me day 3, i wont fight".

[populartajo]

I don't like Tajo's reaction to Darox's claim - I find the fact that he didn't include the quotes from Tanarin until asked odd.

. . . Tanarin likes to live dangerously.

What is this nonsense?
I'll be back later.

Why didnt you like my reaction? It was pretty clear to me, and at least to people paying attention, that Tanarin suspected DGB day 1. Just posted those quotes because ML asked for them and I assume he didnt remember that from day 1.

Also I agree: I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND HOW "lives to live dangerously" is A VALID REASON TO THROW AWAY YOUR DISTRUST ON A PLAYER AND EVEN PROTECT THAT PLAYER THAT SAME VERY NIGHT.

[DrippingGoofball]

If I'm so culted, then vote me, tajo.

What's this weirdass lynch- DGB-by-proxy through lynching Darox

first

?

[populartajo]

IVE BEEN VOTING YOU SINCE FCKING DAY 2

WHAT DID I GET?

NOTHING

MY VOTE IS ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING TODAY IM VOTING THE LYING SCUMBAG CALLED DAROX THAT ALSO HAPPENS TO BE YOUR SCUMPARTNER

A QUESTION TO YOU, DGB, YOU KNOW CLAIMS DONT MEAN NOTHING IN THIS GAME, WHY YOU WENT TO TANARIN IS SCUM TO TANARIN IS TOWN IN 2 SECONDS?

[Cobblerfone]

Unless your assuming that Darox is the night zero recruit, every player started out with a town role.

You know this to be certain?

[Darox]

I should have taken up the Tajo strategy of just yelling meaningless words loudly to make people tune me out and assume I'm town rather than trying to be honest. That would be so much easier.

So, what are the points against me again? We've got the obvious fake claim, the fact that Tanarin flaked, and the fact that he changed his mind twice regarding DGB.

The last one is my favorite by the way. Tannin gets recruited N1 (Remember the flaking) so this changes his opinion on DGB to be more favorable (Because DGB is clearly Kinetic's N0 recruit), and then, on N3, he suddenly is against DGB again and is voting her, because..? I forget how the story ends. If anyone remembers please share.

[DrippingGoofball]

Tajo,

IF YOU'RE NOT CULTED,

Can you PAY ATTENTION???

I believe Darox's claim.

Doesn't mean he's not culted, but I believe the claim.

[bvoigt]

It's true that Katsuki lurked, but IIRC, he wasn't recruited until later in the game.

How do you know this?

Albert said he recruited Katsuki because Kats saw his QT during Goofbash.

@Tajo:

Why would he fakeclaim when he presumably started with an actual town role?

[DrippingGoofball]

I should have taken up the Tajo strategy of just yelling meaningless words loudly to make people tune me out and assume I'm town rather than trying to be honest. That would be so much easier.

It's not working all that well.

Half of me thinks tajo has developed a case of DGB-perma-tunnel.

But then he's totally not paying attention and saying things that make no sense. Tajo is a smart guy, I don't think he'd be so dumb if he was actually hunting. He usually gets his facts straight as town.

Ooba is tajo's buddy, he's pursuing the same strategy of spouting completely wrong IIoA. There's another buddy out there, probably.

[populartajo]

It's true that Katsuki lurked, but IIRC, he wasn't recruited until later in the game.

How do you know this?

Albert said he recruited Katsuki because Kats saw his QT during Goofbash.

@Tajo:

Why would he fakeclaim when he presumably started with an actual town role?

many options, most likely darox starting with a vanilla role and trying to avoid his lynch with an unprovable convenient doc fakeclaim that doesnt even make sense regarding interaction with the "protections" and needed three iterations to become fully explained.

darox can still be part of a third faction, a simple goon, i dont know why starting with an actual town role imposibilates someone from fakeclaiming, shrug.

[Zdenek]

I don't feel great about the Darox wagon - call it gut. I thought Tanarin was scummy, but as I read the game, I find it harder to believe that he was recruited.

Of the other wagons, I'd be willing to vote for Tajo.

[Herodotus]

I believe Darox's claim.

Doesn't mean he's not culted, but I believe the claim.

I also believe it. But I suspect that he's town.

Actually, additional note, my role specifies violence done in the name of evil.

So, there's that.

So you don't prevent town-vig kills? Have you asked for mod clarification?
There may be a way to use this to our advantage (ie. confirm that the vig is protown).

@ Herodotus

Can you confirm or deny seeing anything of Darox the past two nights?

I was not aware of his targeting me.
I have not been roleblocked.

if someone could confirm that [Darox] targeted Hero the last two nights, then I would be willing to unvote Darox.

Particularly on Night 2. The kinetic mafia wouldn't know whether Albert had the ability to kill me, but they would know on night 3 whether they were going to kill me and could have him target me just in case I was watched.

VOTE: Populartajo
I don't have much to say about him, but DGb has said plenty.

[populartajo]

I don't feel great about the Darox wagon - call it gut. I thought Tanarin was scummy, but as I read the game, I find it harder to believe that he was recruited.

why?

Hero, what exact part of DGB do you agree with?

[Bunnylover]

Unless your assuming that Darox is the night zero recruit, every player started out with a town role.

You know this to be certain?

Not certain.
I am assuming. But I am fairly positive thats it true.
Lets say our Vigilante is town. He's recruited night 2, and gets his cult pm or whatever. Well he still has his vigilante pm, therefore why lie about his role?
The only plausible explanation for why a person would lie about his role is because he/she was a night zero recruit and therefore never received a town pm. But even then, their is still a possibility that our mod gave everyone a town pm, then sent out the night zero recruit pms.

[Yosarian2]

Blah not paying attention. It wasn't a anti-recruitment doctor that Darox is. But this is wifom, but its possible, if the cult have an ability to kill maybe it can only kill players that are town.

That doesn't really make sense, from a setup standpoint. With a few exceptions (unrecruitable townies mostly) each cult is going to want to recruit townies and/or kill members of the other cult; cults don't especally want to kill townies. (Sure, if a cult recruited a vig or something, they wouldn't mind killing a few townies, but it's not really a priority). Again, in succession I, cults were able to give up their recruit to attempt to kill, but really the only reason for them to do that was in order to go after the other cult.

[populartajo]

The only plausible explanation for why a person would lie about his role is because he/she was a night zero recruit and therefore never received a town pm. But even then, their is still a possibility that our mod gave everyone a town pm, then sent out the night zero recruit pms.

what about someone that got a vanilla town PM and then got recruited?

[Nobody Special]

Though it's probably just a vig and an even-night vig.

I'm guessing Andrius was a scum kill.

You shouldn't guess about these things.

[Magister Ludi]

I've given up on Cobbler because, the fact is, he had no chance of being recruited after that Day 1.

But your whole premise of voting him day one was that you thought he got RECRUITED night zero, thus, if you thought he was cult then, it makes no sense why you don't think he is cult anymore.

~~~~

Yeah, there is no reason for a cult to kill over recruit. A kill drops the town numbers the same as a recruit does, the major difference is that the cults numbers increase with a recruitement.