TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[David Xanatos]

Also..

"hm...well Chevre and Vollkan are verbose enough to not ignore me calling them scummy, so I shouldn't bother there."

There are two ways I can see this being meant.. care to point me to which way you meant it? Once again it's a nitpick but it's something that did flag up to me..

[ZeL1nK]

@Zel1nk: If you vig Zinger, I will replace out.

Wait...

Are you saying I should do it? Or I shouldn't do it?

I can't tell, because it came off sounding somewhat like a threat, but you're giving me incentive to do it.

[Zinger2099]

@ZeL1nK, if I somehow survive the Day 1 lynch, do you still intend to Vig me tonight?

[ZeL1nK]

No, we cool, dawg. I have better things to do than call you town all day then vig you. If I wanted you dead, I'd lynch you.

I can't say yes, anyway... you'll roleblock me.

[Leonshade]

@Leon (Post #820) - Don't you find it a little.. ironic that you're calling a Hydra out on being semi-inactive?

No, why would I? Both heads of the ThreeIsFrench hydra tend to be active in other games, yet they rarely post in this one. TIF's posts don't tend to have much content, either, and their latest posts have alternated between making a quick comment and explaining said comment when asked.

[Meransiel]

Also..

"hm...well Chevre and Vollkan are verbose enough to not ignore me calling them scummy, so I shouldn't bother there."

There are two ways I can see this being meant.. care to point me to which way you meant it? Once again it's a nitpick but it's something that did flag up to me..

Chevre, at least, has a nice time ducking up at me (sorry if this expression does not exist in the English language, it is a direct translation). So they would argue the reasons with which I call them scummy even if I don't vote them, which works for investigation.

@Zel1nk: Let me reformulate. If you vig Zinger I will replace out AND blacklist you.

[David Xanatos]

Fair enough. I think I grasp the expression, but I'll leave it there.. thanks for clearing that up. I was semi-suspicious of you but after clarifying, I'm much less so.

You believe Zel1nk's Vig claim then?

[jasonT1981]

Day 1 Vote count 8

Zinger 10 - Vezo,Leonshade, Junpei, 3isFrench, Izak, Pappum,Cherve, KillerJester, DavidX, Vollkan(L-4)
Silverdrummer 5 - Slate, Oversoul, Nero, MOI,Mera
DavidX 4 - CHKBallin,PeregrineV,Roidon, THAdmiral
Izak 3 - ZeL1nk, Pinky, Zinger
Pine 1 - Silver,
Chkballin 1 - Andrew


With 27 alive it takes 14 to lynch with a deadline of 12th August 12pm EST

[Zinger2099]

@MOD, I believe I am voting Izak.

Fixed, sorry I missed that one. Lack of caffeine!

[ThreeIsFrench]

@Leon (Post #820) - Don't you find it a little.. ironic that you're calling a Hydra out on being semi-inactive?

No, why would I? Both heads of the ThreeIsFrench hydra tend to be active in other games, yet they rarely post in this one. TIF's posts don't tend to have much content, either, and their latest posts have alternated between making a quick comment and explaining said comment when asked.

sorry leon, my other head literally hasnt said ANYTHING in the QT, nor on MSN or anything. And i keep forgetting to refresh this game, ill do a POWER READ tonight, hopefully ill find scum

~hip

[ThreeIsFrench]

@Junpei- You are correct, 12 of 14 as of last VC. Either way, I'm not for lynching claimed town PRs day1. If they live, they have to explain themselves each and every day. And every time they flip town, we can trust the results, and if they flip scum, we can probably backtrack to see who they're protecting.

@Nero- Is he getting heat for his Pine vote? I actually saw more people voting Pine.

not liking this post at all, not only is it forshadowing, its supporting WIFOM.

That said, zinger is still better; see any of junpeis post for confirmation on that, hes not town. He may be scum, and he may be telling the truth; but either way hes anti-town

[ThreeIsFrench]

Rodion, Junpei, Meransial, MoI all are obv town atm.

[jasonT1981]

Marco has been prodded

[ThreeIsFrench]

thadmiral and david xanastos are also both town. Maybe zel1nk1 too, not as sure on that though.

[ThreeIsFrench]

all those were hip btw, DONJOSH forgot about the game apparently and is catching up now.

[Meransiel]

@David: I do believe the vig, yes. I'm like, not suspecting him at all until lylo.

@TIF: Glad you're down to business. Please state why you think ThAd is town.

[Meransiel]

And to any nitpickers that may exist, yes, I know I should also ask about Rodion, given my stance on him. But I like taking things one at a time.

[ThreeIsFrench]

ThAd for the most part has just had townie intentions, really. There are some not so great things, but looking at the overall spectrum, i just dont see any scum motive for the things hes doing. What would be the biggest reason you disagree mer?

[Meransiel]

Well I don't really see townie intentions in not having ANY intentions and mostly empty posts, myself. Appearing to contribute to be regarded as town is a scum motive. Or at least that's how I see it, not that he's my top suspect (or top 3 for that matter) or anything.

[ThreeIsFrench]

really? i don't find him to be trying to look town; hes done a few risky posts which i cant see coming from scum..

[Meransiel]

really? i don't find him to be trying to look town; hes done a few risky posts which i cant see coming from scum..

Specifically?

[ThreeIsFrench]

hm, i just ISO'd him looking for the specific posts; i couldnt find what i was looking for. I think i see your point, actually. Most of his posts have been :safeposts; with the slight exception of 558.

Not sure what i was thinking

[MagnaofIllusion]

We still prefer a Zinger lynch at this point though. His retraction of his third party claim makes it more likely that he is scum. Retracting such a claim is a survival -minded move. He should never have claimed third party as town, whilst it makes some sense for a third party player who is survival oriented to say WHATEVER THE HELL IT TAKES to stay alive, and we *might* see him doing a third party claim as scum, hoping to buy time. We don't think the 'permanently roleblocked' thing is the sort of thing a town gambiter would come up with off the top of his head. The most likely thing is he is actually third party, with an outside chance of being scum. Also, if the town is NOT going to lynch him, then it needs to commit to NEVER lynching him (barring investigation) and hoping for a vigging. This is important - any later day, we will have more info than today, so lynching Zinger will have a higher opportunity cost.

Hey, weren’t you the slot banging on me for pressuring Vifam as it was violating your “Newbie escalator” theory earlier? Yeah, you totally were.

Yet you are hammering Zinger (who should obv qualify for said Newb status IMO) for flailing around just like your theory explicitily states Newb Town would do. If you were being consistent about your ‘theory’ you should recognize that. But nope … you don’t and instead push using nice flowery language like “opportunity cost”

Hey look, Cognitive Dissonance from Pappums. Have this bright, shiny

FOS – Pappums

I don’t give those out usually. You should be honored to receive one. It’s a mark of my respect for the Leather Jacket half of your Hydra.

--

you see, at L1 people claim.
if we are not lynching people who claim a pr, then who are we gonna lynch
scum can claim pr as well you know

And then said fake-claiming player would be locked into making a believable claim, subject to potential testing via Cops / Trackers / Watchers / etc or counter-claims. Day 1 is not the Day to lynch a claimed Town PR.

--

My point is that the role he claimed first up was an anti-town role. He gets pressured and, after a number of contortions, claims town JK, under the pretext of a gambit. If he'd claimed mafia or SK and then backflipped with a "lol, sorry - gambit", he'd have been lynched five pages ago. Every action he is taken since his initial claim is referable to a survival motive. Thus, we have an anti-town motivation and the absence of any town motivation.

Survival mode isn’t more likely to come from only scum. Sorry, a Town PR is just as likely to enter survival mode after a grandly stupid move because lynching them is very damaging to Town. You’ve been around to have seen this and that you still are pushing it as a scum-tell based on your own personal standard troubles me.

What do you think of Pappum’s “Newbie Escalator” theory?

--

That was in relation to the vifam slot... why make the switch all of a sudden.

Um, whut? Junpei’s Tracker claim makes my suspicions null and void for the moment. I’ve clearly explained that. How you are trying to say that I ‘all of the sudden’ did that I don’t quite understand.

--

@pop quiz: I don't. Night will tell me. Night has not come

See, than I don’t see the point of you prematurely assessing whether it is a Town role or not given you are saying yourself you will have to wait for Night to be somewhat sure …


--

And I note that MoI still hasn't responded to my reply, and now ThAdmiral is using his post to justify a vote on me.. once again, skimming or an actual attempt at misrepresentation

Hey look … an assertion that I’m dodging responding when I had not personally posted since his first response (which by the way is terrible, see below).

Scumtastic move David.

MoI, I'm not sure if you're just skimming or if you're actively trying to misrepresent me, but you'll note that TWO POSTS after I posted that, I also posted, this,

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3265912

And the first words of that post.. "Hit post too early, meant to hit Preview so I could get onto the more detailed posting screen.."

Hell, two posts after THAT I even expanded on it further.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p3266033

So please, stop trying to make out as though my sole reasoning was "lulz revealed role".

I read posts chronologically when I am doing my responses.

Either you screwed up your linking or I am not seeing what your point is.

At ISO 43 (post 694) you ask the question that both Meran found scummy.

Two of your own posts later is ISO 45 (post 697) where you said the following –

Can someone give me a quick overview of what a Neighbourizer is by the way? I can take a rough guess, but I don't see it on the wiki..

No mention of the phrase “hit post too early” in that entire post.

Two posts after that is ISO 47 (post 47) where you say the following …

What flavour/mechanics did they give you for it? Even if you don't name them, the differences might hint towards the non-town, assuming they aren't both Town..

All I see in that post is you expanding on reasons it would be good for me to out one of my contacts in thread.

Your first link goes to post 744 which is well after the post that Meran specifically said he found suspicous (694). The second one reflects on post 746. Could you try to explain how those are relevant to my and Meran’s observations that you were role-fishing in 694?

[David Xanatos]

You quoted post 742 in post 803, completely ignoring the fact I admitted in post 744 that I had hit "submit" instead of "preview". Post 744 and, by extension, 746, were direct responses to Zel1nk. How exactly you can quote post 742 in relation to post 694 is beyond me, given that in 741, Zel1nk says, and I quote, "If you're going to vote for Zinger, tell me which part of this line of thinking you disagree with and why." That is what 742 and 744 were in regards to. 746 was in regards to Zel1nk's response, post 745.

In addition, my first response was at 7:45PM on Thursday, you posted twice in another topic at 2:01am and 4:09am, in addition to 4 further posts elsewhere over the course of the afternoon. If that's you "not personally posting", I suggest you contact Mith about your account being compromised.

And to respond to the point you're now bringing up, more or less out of the blue, (See below as to why this is out of the blue), at that point, and frankly, even now, I still believe the chance of two town neighbourizers is slim. Therefore, if we have TWO people who have done it, it follows one of them is likely to be NON TOWN. It therefore follows we should analyse them to determine WHICH is the more viable lynch/vig candidate, and go for them. (Indeed, you even expressed your reasoning for telling Town you were approached by two of them in #808, "2. I think the chances that both are Town is VERY, VERY limited. Thus why I specifically outed the information before my expected, standard N1 demise."

Now.. to address "my and Meran's observations", this is what you had to say on the matter at the time:

"2. Not at this stage. On the off chance that one of them isn't Mafia scum (aka Third Party or the unlikely possibility both are Town) then I'm not directly handing over either identity."

At which point, I took a step back, and said the following - "What flavour/mechanics did they give you for it? Even if you don't name them, the differences might hint towards the non-town, assuming they aren't both Town.."

Now.. try to keep up here. I asked you for an IMPERSONAL description of what each said the role did and the limits thereof. In other words, "Person A said this, Person B said this.". From that, we'd have a basic grounding, without names, to say "Well, X, Y and Z in Person B's post look out of place.." (Psst, I said this in post #711 by the way)

And in addition, looking through both your and Meran's ISOs, at no point did you ask me to defend or expand upon my questions in 694.

[jasonT1981]

EasJo(2) Oversoul (2) have been prodded