Execution Mafia: Days of the Cold War GAMEOVER

[Quilford]

VOTE: vezokpiraka

^ town

[Quilford]

You're kidding, right Quil?

1. He's completely unopen to discussion. Anti-town.

Exaggeration.

2. He's vezok. Do you want vezok to have the kill?

Prejudice.

And you're calling him anti-town. Nuh-uh.

[Quilford]

By adjoining text I mean post 27. While you've already said it in a roundabout way, post 27 is a straight out contradiction of the MoI vote which I don't like, so I'm getting stronger scummy vibes/VI vibes from vezok. As of which between scum/idiot, IMO it's too early to tell.

Kill this guy when we elect you, vezok.

[Quilford]

That's not scummy.

[Quilford]

@ Quil, I don't see vezok elected the way it's going.

And as for you,

1. You're against any discussion outside of "Go vezok Go!"₁
2. You're clearly defending a person with scum reads from SK and I.²

Open your eyes.

¹ Where has there been any other discussion that doesn't regard vesok; how have I been against it?
² How have I been defending vezok? Why are you speaking for SK?

[Quilford]

Quil, it's a blatant contradiction.

Scumminess is not innate to contradictions.

[Quilford]

Codfish's recent posts and the one of yours that I quoted a while back.

[Quilford]

I think those 3D glasses have done something to your brain, SK.

Codfish. Explain how I am being pro-vezok (outside of my vote for him).

[Quilford]

vote Moi

I'm not going to support anyone else executioner unless it's me.

1. Because you aren't open to discussion. Scummy.
2. You're a VI.

Why am I not open to discussion? I will vote someone if I feel they are giving strong town tells or are merely good at finding scum.

So the 'case' on vezok seems to be that these two posts are a contradiction. They are, sure, but I don't see how this contradiction makes him scummy. I regard the former post as a bit of hyperbole, in the way you would say 'Obama is the only suitable candidate for the Presidential Election', or something like that.

[Quilford]

EBWOP: And since the first post seems to me as hyperbole and therefore a statement not meant to be taken seriously, I don't see how it's a scummy contradiction.

[Quilford]

I'll ad hom all I want.

I don't really see how explaining how you two are wrong about vezok is buddying him.

You can take a stab at my question since Codfish seems to have brushed it aside in favour of making sweeping statements.

I think I've noticed a pattern emerging in his posting, actually. More on that soon.

[Quilford]

One thing I've noticed about Codfish's posting is that he seems to attack me confidently with you, but the moment you reprimand him (#38), he falls immediately back in line... and the cycle restarts. Take a look at #50, #45, #36 and #31 for his posts midway through the cycle.

PEdit: HE IS NOT ACTING SCUMMY. YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON HIM APART FROM 'OH LOL HE MADE A CONTRADICTION' WITHOUT EXPLAINING WHY THE CONTRADICTION WAS A SCUMMY ONE. AT WORST HE IS ACTING LIKE VEZOK, FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN OF HIS META.

[Quilford]

SK, my straight out opinion of vezok was that he's a leaning VI townie until I read the MoI vote and adjoining text.
That's just a weird and obvious contradiction. FoS.

This is being buddy-buddy.

I didn't attack you, merely question you. I flipped since vezok contradicted which is a much clearer thing to be looking at.

This is being 'whoooops I made a boo-boo can we still be friends'?

[Quilford]

SK, you actually haven't addressed my points; you've just kept repeating this mantra of 'vezok's scummy because he made a contradiction' and 'he's scummy because he's scum'.

If we're going on contradictions as a basis for scum, perhaps you should reread Codfish's posts after you've dunked your head in cold water.

PEdit:

He's a buddy for agreeing with my case?

I'm vezok's buddy for disagreeing with yours?

Also codfish is really sucking up in those two quotes, particularly the latter.

[Quilford]

Having read 55 while typing, erroneous cyclical reasoning comes out about my posting habits since you've picked a false premise to begin with and gone back to it.

What's the false premise? One sentence will do, thank you.

[Quilford]

Corporal. In your own words, how do vezok's posts contradict each other?

[Quilford]

As of which between scum/idiot, IMO it's too early to tell.

You're clearly defending a person with scum reads from [...] I.

What I was going to say was you're trying to garner favour with vezok here,

Why would vezok act like that if he's town? I'm for vezok kill and Quil later.

What I was going to say was you're trying to garner favour with vezok here, but SK got in while I was posting, so I'd be repeating him.

you yourself stated that it was "a chance" that Quil is garnering favour. A removal of incompetence is more secure.

[Quilford]

He's not blatantly anti-town. You're blowing one statement he made WAY out of proportion.

[Quilford]

A cyclical mantra... sounds familiar...

Where have you made any point for vezok being scum apart from 'he's anti-town' and 'he contradicted himself', of which the former stems from the latter?

[Quilford]

I haven't, and I don't need to.
The quotes on Cod are nice. Defence, Cod?
Also, is Cod scum Quil?

You need to explain why the contradiction is scummy.

He's scum and opportunistic scum at that.

[Quilford]

@Quil, your false premise is that I flipped _with_ SK and therefore I'm budding him. Your entire argument is based on this.

How does that 'false premise' have anything to do with Post #55, in which I don't even mention buddying?

Now that we're on cyclical reasoning, explain to me how "vezok is town" ==> "I'm town and I agree" ==>

"You're scum because you don't"

==> ":. Vezok is town" is NOT the most cyclical crap we can see?

I actually fail to see how that makes any sense at all, or how I have implied the bolded at all.

1/2 don't contradict since enough time passed between them; you've disregarded the fact that vezok slipped in between those posts.

7 minutes and 0 vezok posts were between quotes 1 and 2.

The rest are you trying to pull straws. I made a statement and gave the other side of the coin. 3/4 5/6 are the same thing; I made a statement of two options and went for that which is most secure.

In 3 you imply that I'm trying to gain favour with vezok because I'm scum and he's town, in 4 you imply that you think we're both scum.

In 5 you state that you'd be repeating SK when he says there's "a chance" I'm trying to gain favour with vezok, in 6 you say "A removal of incompetence is more secure."

[Quilford]

So vezok's contradiction is fine but Cod is scum? burnitwithfiardiequildie

FOR FUCK'S SAKE

WOULD YOU KINDLY GO BURN TO DEATH IN A FUCKING FIRE

I POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES THAT I THOUGHT VEZOK'S CONTRADICTION WAS NOT AS SCUMMY AS YOU MADE IT OUT TO BE. I THEN POINTED OUT THREE CONTRADICTIONS THAT CODFISH MADE. YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY SAYING THAT ALL CONTRADICTIONS ARE THE SAME TO YOU

YOU'RE NOT EVEN FUCKING READING MY POSTS

FUCK

YOU

Define opportunistic scum.

opportunistic scum

n.

Codfish

IE READ MY FUCKING POSTS AS TO WHY I PERCEIVE YOU AS OPPORTUNISTIC

^ Sigh, should start every post with this.

^ Sigh, should start every post with this.

^ Sigh, should start every post with this.

^ Sigh, should start every post with this.

^ Sigh, should start every post with this.

^ Sigh, should start every post with this.

^ Sigh, should start every post with this.

THIS IS FUCKING BUDDYING RIGHT HERE

vote Moi

I'm not going to support anyone else executioner unless it's me.

1. Because you aren't open to discussion. Scummy.
2. You're a VI.

Why am I not open to discussion? I will vote someone if I feel they are giving strong town tells or are merely good at finding scum.

So the 'case' on vezok seems to be that these two posts are a contradiction. They are, sure, but I don't see how this contradiction makes him scummy. I regard the former post as a bit of hyperbole, in the way you would say 'Obama is the only suitable candidate for the Presidential Election', or something like that.

vote Moi

I'm not going to support anyone else executioner unless it's me.

1. Because you aren't open to discussion. Scummy.
2. You're a VI.

Why am I not open to discussion? I will vote someone if I feel they are giving strong town tells or are merely good at finding scum.

So the 'case' on vezok seems to be that these two posts are a contradiction. They are, sure, but I don't see how this contradiction makes him scummy. I regard the former post as a bit of hyperbole, in the way you would say 'Obama is the only suitable candidate for the Presidential Election', or something like that.

vote Moi

I'm not going to support anyone else executioner unless it's me.

1. Because you aren't open to discussion. Scummy.
2. You're a VI.

Why am I not open to discussion? I will vote someone if I feel they are giving strong town tells or are merely good at finding scum.

So the 'case' on vezok seems to be that these two posts are a contradiction. They are, sure, but I don't see how this contradiction makes him scummy. I regard the former post as a bit of hyperbole, in the way you would say 'Obama is the only suitable candidate for the Presidential Election', or something like that.

vote Moi

I'm not going to support anyone else executioner unless it's me.

1. Because you aren't open to discussion. Scummy.
2. You're a VI.

Why am I not open to discussion? I will vote someone if I feel they are giving strong town tells or are merely good at finding scum.

So the 'case' on vezok seems to be that these two posts are a contradiction. They are, sure, but I don't see how this contradiction makes him scummy. I regard the former post as a bit of hyperbole, in the way you would say 'Obama is the only suitable candidate for the Presidential Election', or something like that.

vote Moi

I'm not going to support anyone else executioner unless it's me.

1. Because you aren't open to discussion. Scummy.
2. You're a VI.

Why am I not open to discussion? I will vote someone if I feel they are giving strong town tells or are merely good at finding scum.

So the 'case' on vezok seems to be that these two posts are a contradiction. They are, sure, but I don't see how this contradiction makes him scummy. I regard the former post as a bit of hyperbole, in the way you would say 'Obama is the only suitable candidate for the Presidential Election', or something like that.

THIS IS WHY VEZOK'S CONTRADICTION DOES NOT COME FROM SCUM

[Quilford]

So vezok's contradiction is fine but Cod is scum? burnitwithfiardiequildie

Hey Quil.

HEY FUCK YOU TOO

[Quilford]

I'm outta here for now. You two go book a hotel room and take your shit there.

[Quilford]

1/2 don't contradict since enough time passed between them; you've disregarded the fact that vezok slipped in between those posts.

7 minutes and 0 vezok posts were between quotes 1 and 2.

I MADE IT LARGER SO YOU CAN READ IT

[Quilford]

You're only allowed to capsrage if you're right.
*Entering 'ignore Quilford until he actually does something' mode*
Completed.

AND AGAIN YOU DON'T ACTUALLY BOTHER TO READ MY POSTS

[Quilford]

1/2 don't contradict since enough time passed between them; you've disregarded the fact that vezok slipped in between those posts.

7 minutes and 0 vezok posts were between quotes 1 and 2.

I MADE IT LARGER SO YOU CAN READ IT

THIS IS A LIE

THIS IS A FUCKING LIE FROM CODFISH

VOTE ME SO I CAN KILL HIM

PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER VEZOK IS TOWN OR NOT

I DO KNOW THAT YOUR REASONING FOR THINKING HE IS SCUM IS

FUCKING SHITTY

[Quilford]

Can we selfvote? If no, Vezok is the only person out of everyone who's posted so far where I think my vote will do best. Hence why it's there

[Quilford]

VOTE: Quilford in case we can selfvote

[Quilford]

EBWOP: In #79, 'YOU' in line 2 should've been italicised.

[Quilford]

Why are

you

turning a blind eye to Codfish?

[Quilford]

I don't know he's town, but with scum like Codfish attacking him this early on he must be.

However Quilford, calm down please and loose the attitude/swearing/caps.

Deal with it. If you don't like it you can replace out.

Quilford seems to be wanting it just to kill one person, that is not town. Begging for the role just so you can kill someone?

I'm sorry, what the fuck are you on? Do you know what lynching is? This is like lynching, except instead of piling our votes on the person we want to kill, we pile our votes on the person we want to kill someone. We won't vote that person if we think the person isn't going to kill the right person.

However the executioner/king should always be listening to the town and making decissions based on that. Quilford is seemingly not wanting to do that.

How have I not wanted to listen to the town.

Quilford, if you don't know if Vezo is town, then why are you voting him for executioner? does not make sense.

I don't know he's town. Do you know that who you want to vote is town?


You're also not commenting on anyone else who has posted so far. You are not commenting on why my points are wrong; you're not commenting on why SK's or Codfish's points are right. You're not giving your thoughts on Codfish blatantly lying; you're focusing on me because of an attitude you perceive me to have.

You can go in my scum list, too.

[Quilford]

PEDIT: Quil dies today.
Quil, in your first post, you call vezok town. Explain.

I did not call vezok town.

I said that this

And why not? Is he your scumbuddy?

Yep. That's right. You caught us oh mighty SK.

was a town post.

Are you really going to lynch me for lying when Codfish said that his read on vezok changed
1) because vezok had posted between the updated and prior read WHEN HE HADN'T
2) because he had had sufficient time to think about it WHEN THERE WAS 7 MINUTES BETWEEN THE TWO POSTS, WHICH ARE DIRECTLY AFTER EACH OTHER IN ISOLATION


I'm waiting for some sense to be dragged into this game.

[Quilford]

@Quilford: WTF? You vote me. You say I am twn (IN YOUR FIRST POST) and now you unvote me say I'm not town and vote yourself?

Seriously what is wrong in this game?

I did not say you were town in your first post.


PEDIT: HOW DID I ADMIT TO LYING YOU FUCKING PRICK

[Quilford]

THAT'S NOT ADMITTING TO LYING

I EXPLAINED HOW IT WASN'T A LIE

[Quilford]

VOTE: vezokpiraka

^ town

This is some super semi sarcastic comment that means that I am neutral.

The arrow was meant to be pointing to the post above mine, not the vote itself.

[Quilford]

Can you tell Quilford to stop with the insults? It's derailing the game...

How are the insults derailing the game?

[Quilford]

Why didn't you clarify this sooner?

Because nobody had raised it as a problem UNTIL JUST THEN

[Quilford]

Quil is defending vezok...
Cod's case is the same as mine...

^ Sigh, should start every post with this.

buddy buddy
can't you feel it ah-ha
buddy buddy

I'll stop with the insults but it's the only way to drill it through your thick skull that you might be wrong.

Whoops.

[Quilford]

PEDIT: So you'd elect vezok for one town post when he's null to you?

It's the only town post I've seen from a player this game.

Except for mine of course. Excuse me while I admire my reflection in the mirror.

[Quilford]

No, my ego's bigger.

it clearly is if you're think I'm scum because I disagree with you on my read of one player

and you don't even bother to explain why apart from 'HURR DURR HE'S BUDDYING VEZOK'

[Quilford]

Being the bigger man can be fun.
You should try it sometime.

mmmm

What do you think of codfish lying about why quotes 1 and 2 aren't a contradiction and then promptly disappearing from the site despite the fact we live in the same timezone?

[Quilford]

Whatever.

[Quilford]

Holy freaking spam ...

It's not spam, it's me being right while everyone else continues to be wrong.

[Quilford]

Anyone who has ever played in any of my modded games will understand why.

Considering I haven't, perhaps you could enlighten me?

I want to say that my main issue with Quif is his attitude, it is horrible.

I was going to write something witty and acerbic but you can't argue with people who put others in their scum lists for their

attitude

.

your wanting to kill is based on rage posting as I see it.

This makes no sense. I want to kill because I am rage posting? Are you suggesting that because I ragepost the points within are any less valid? Did you

read

my posts or did you just see the CAPS and swearing and everything just turned red and the report button beckoned with its shiny exclamation mark AND OH GOD OH GOD THE MONITOR WAS SPEAKING TO YOU IN A LOW, PERSUASIVE VOICE

How have I not wanted to listen to the town.

I did not say that, blatent misrep.

However

the executioner/king should always be listening to the town

and making decissions based on that.

Quilford is seemingly not wanting to do that.

Do you know where you can take your 'blatant misrep'?

Switzerland.

Quilford, if you don't know if Vezo is town, then why are you voting him for executioner?

I didn't. But you know it wasn't looking likely that he'd be elected any time soon, and he was the towniest at the time.

Don't like how Cod comes in attacking SK. SK has made a valid point towards Quiford.

It was

not

a valid point.

I don't know he's town. Do you know that who you want to vote is town?

then why vote him? why not hold off until you can get a read?

What is the RVS?

Could you show me Cod blatently lying please?

Could you read my posts please?

[Quilford]

I can't be bothered to explain myself to Zang and repeat myself for the nth time, it's pretty clear he just skimmed everything

[Quilford]

I'm fine with letting him kill whoever.

But that would be

anti-town

, wouldn't it now?

[Quilford]

Actually, vezok, I'd like you to answer the question posed in fatlikepig's post:

1) Why are my cases on SK and Codfish wrong (you stated they were)?
2) If they are wrong, why did you say SK was null and Codfish was leaning scum?

[Quilford]

Actually, vezok, I'd like you to answer the question posed in fatlikepig's post:

1) Why are my cases on SK and Codfish wrong (you stated they were)?
2) If they are wrong, why did you say SK was null and Codfish was leaning scum?

I see SK as misguided town that could be scum( neutral). That's why I don't agree with your case.

As for codfish he is pretty scummy and I agree with you.

As for the wrong comment it was when you started capsraging and doing stuff I didn't agree with.

Ignoring the capsraging, which should have no effect on the validity of my arguments anyway, what else did I do that you didn't agree with.

[Quilford]

@Quilford

– I have a question for you. Do you support Town directed Executions if you are going to be the Executioner?

no magna my caps raging clearly points to the fact that i am an unstable young man and am incapable of following directives

when i am executioner i shall execute annnnnnnnyone i please 38D muahaha


Why do you ask?

[Quilford]

@Quilford

– I have a question for you. Do you support Town directed Executions if you are going to be the Executioner?

no magna my caps raging clearly points to the fact that i am an unstable young man and am incapable of following directives

when i am executioner i shall execute annnnnnnnyone i please 38D muahaha


Why do you ask?

This is what we call sarcasm.

[Quilford]

@Quilford

– I have a question for you. Do you support Town directed Executions if you are going to be the Executioner?

no magna my caps raging clearly points to the fact that i am an unstable young man and am incapable of following directives

when i am executioner i shall execute annnnnnnnyone i please 38D muahaha


Why do you ask?

This is what we call sarcasm.

Sarcasm? You could have made it more obvious.

I think it was pretty obvious, actually.

SleepyKrew, I can agree to that.

[Quilford]

I JUST WANT TO KILL SOMEONE SO BAD OH GOD

~~

SleepyKrew, why the sudden change of mind on me? And who do you think we should kill via me?

[Quilford]

SleepyKrew, aside from me, who is your biggest scumread?

[Quilford]

cool so here are everyone's top scum reads as far as I can tell:

CC - Vezok / Cod
Chaos - Cod / Vezok
Cod - ??? (me?)
fatlikepig - Cod / Vezok
havingfitz - ???
implosion - SK
jasonT1981 - Cod
MoI - SK
me :DD - Cod / SK
SK - implosion
vezok - Chaos / Cod
Zang - Cod

That's pretty decisive actually. If you elect me, I'm going to be killing Cod.

[Quilford]

Unless anyone has a really compelling reason why I shouldn't.

[Quilford]

Should we get a nightexecutioner VC happening?

[Quilford]

I'm in support of anyone being the Night Executioner, as long as it isn't SK or Jason. MoI sounds good.

[Quilford]

I don't care who gets elected so long as they kill Cod.

VOTE: vezokpiraka

[Quilford]

That puts vezok at E-1, I think.

[Quilford]

1 - Cod
2 - SK

[Quilford]

Everyone should post top two scum reads

1.Quilford
2.Chaos
3.Cod

Ignoring you listing me as your top scum read which is based on reasoning I don't think you even understand yourself (so kindly just sum up your case on me in bullet points or something), I don't get why you've put Chaos at 2 over Cod considering the only thing you bring up against Chaos in your ISO is that he needs to post more, iirc and you said my case on Codfish was "especially good" or something

so I get the feeling that you're trying to appease Vezok by putting Chaos at 2 and I can definitely see you being Cod's buddy

[Quilford]

Ignoring you listing me as your top scum read which is based on reasoning I don't think you even understand yourself (so kindly just sum up your case on me in bullet points or something), I don't get why you've put Chaos at 2 over Cod considering the only thing you bring up against Chaos in your ISO is that he needs to post more, iirc and you said my case on Codfish was "especially good" or something

so I get the feeling that you're trying to appease Vezok by putting Chaos at 2 and I can definitely see you being Cod's buddy

I've already posted my reasons for why I think your scummy.

You can post them again.

[Quilford]

moi is as good as any I guess

[Quilford]

Also, this shit is getting ridiculous. MoI, kill CC pweez :3

aaaaaaah you are so scum

[Quilford]

Was the quoted post a joke?

[Quilford]

oh shit guys I just read the last few pages and realised I have shit to answer
No hammering till then kthx vezok

Zang set out your case on me and your other scum reads please, either I'm not seeing it or I don't consider it coherant enough atm

[Quilford]

aaah fuckit

[Quilford]

@MoI re CCs exp.: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
#0 and #6

also that's a game where I didn't rage until endgame

those...

those are pretty rare?

[Quilford]

Quil, why did you feel the need to answer MOIs question to CC yourself?

because it would make no difference either way
I was online
I have played with CC before and remember him stating it

[Quilford]

zang if you have time to write quote walls you have time to make a reads list and put a few bullet points in there

[Quilford]

Scum:
- Codfish
- SK
- havingfitz

Null-scum:
- jasonT1981
- havingfitz

Null:
- Tragedy
- Captain Corporal

Null-town:
- fatlikepig
- IceGuy
- implosion

Town:
- vezokpiraka
- MagnaofIllusion

[Quilford]

Scum:
- Codfish
- SK

Null-scum:
- jasonT1981
- havingfitz

Null:
- Zang
- Tragedy
- Captain Corporal

Null-town:
- fatlikepig
- IceGuy
- implosion

Town:
- vezokpiraka
- MagnaofIllusion

EBWOQ

[Quilford]

Quilly

ISO #0 : No, I don't like this post. Especially when it says he's town right in the first thing. Just no.
ISO #2 : I don't even understand. He says to kill Codfish because he offended Vezok of some sort. Egads.
ISO #8 : It still sounds like Quil is trying to defend Vezok, but in a minor way.
ISO #27 : Believes that Vezok is the best executioner without telling us why. WHY?

ISO #31 : "I DON'T KNOW, HE'S TOWN" (Vezok's Town?) = IMPLYING A BREADCRUMB OR A SCUMSLIP ON QUILFORD'S BEHALF.

Then he goes "OH LOOK, YOU'RE SCUM FOR TRYING TO FOCUS ON ME INSTEAD OF SOMETHING ELSE!" at Jason.
ISO #63 : MOI IS GOOD AS NIGHT EXECUTIONER... Without an explanation.
ISO #72 : Jason turns into Null-Scum. I don't even understand how Fitz got into Null-Scum in his list. I don't even...

Quilford, is using ATE jsut to make it sound like he's town (Capslock).
But I feel like he made a scumslip, and yet, he's acting pretty anti-town to me.
Quilford looks like scum.

I don't have time to respond to the rest of this, but

ISO #31 : "I DON'T KNOW, HE'S TOWN" (Vezok's Town?) = IMPLYING A BREADCRUMB OR A SCUMSLIP ON QUILFORD'S BEHALF.

I literally never said this. You've put in a comma and it's completely changed the meaning of the phrase.

ISO #27 : Believes that Vezok is the best executioner without telling us why. WHY?

I'm pretty sure I stated that he was the towniest out of anyone who had posted at that point...

Quilford, is using ATE jsut to make it sound like he's town (Capslock).

How is capslock AtE.

[Quilford]

1. I don't know (if) he's town. Aduh.
2. I placed the first vote on him and I point out that he was the towniest of anyone through that whole exchange several times in ISO.
3. Swearing is not AtE?

[Quilford]

It's supposed to mean, 'I don't know if he's town'.

Frustration =/= AtE?

[Quilford]

Each day he would receive a vote split from the previous night.

This is ambiguous, can you clarify?

[Quilford]

B. I didn't like (And just realized) That someone killed someone without even asking for claims. Ashat.

Codfish hadn't posted in

days

. It was pretty obvious he wasn't going to be online to claim?

[Quilford]

?

[Quilford]

Ah okay. So he would receive what is effectively a Vote Count.

[Quilford]

Yes.

[Quilford]

After MoI says his bit we need to decide who we're electing today.

Personally

, I don't think it matters until we think we're in MYLO/LYLO, as we can just NK anyone who submits a kill we haven't agreed on. So my vote goes to Vezok again.

[Quilford]

I also voted MoI.

[Quilford]

VOTE: Quilford

It's a secret.

[Quilford]

Oh me.

[Quilford]

Something about Tragedy's posting is reading as disingenuous.

This is exactly what I wanted to say.

[Quilford]

So this is today's plan.

Elect me. I kill Jason.

Upon scum flip elect ??? to kill ???.
Upon town flip elect ??? to kill ???.

Fill in the blanks, please.

I'm thinking elect me to kill Zang for the scum flip.

[Quilford]

We still need to hear from Scumhunter, too, though. >_<

[Quilford]

You can't kill both me and Jason.

We can with the night execution.

I'm thinking elect me to kill Zang for the scum flip.

What makes you say that?

Zang's been a general scum read for me and his recent interactions with Cosca (interpreting events on jason's behalf) read oddly to me, especially re: the caps rage thing, what is and isn't sarcasm, what jason was and wasn't responding to, etc.


There's also something off about Tragedy's reads. I'll pick them apart sometime.

[Quilford]

Nobody's electing anyone twice in a row.

And your reasoning for this is forthcoming, I would hope?

[Quilford]

If the day executioner is scum and he's elected again to be the night executioner then we would be giving two kills to the scum. We have enough players that we can most likely go throughout the game without repeating anyone.

So what? If (s)he kills someone the town doesn't like we kill them.

[Quilford]

Bluh.

[Quilford]

Is there a read here everyone agrees on?

Can everyone post a reads list asap?

[Quilford]

Scum:

- 2x jason (Cosca, Tragedy)
- 2x SK (implosion, Quilford)
- Tragedy (vezok)

Leaning scum:

- 2x vezok (Cosca, Tragedy)
- 3x Tragedy (Cosca, implosion, Quilford)
- jason (Quilford)
- CC (Tragedy)
- Quilford (Tragedy)

Neutral (Null? / Mixed?):

- MoI (Cosca)
- Cosca/IceGuy (implosion, Tragedy)
- jason (implosion)
- Scumhunter/fatlikepig (implosion)
- Zang (Quilford)
- SK (Tragedy)

Leaning town:

- 3x CC (Cosca, implosion, Quilford)
- SK (Cosca)
- Scumhunter/fatlikepig (Quilford)

Town:

- 3x Zang (Cosca, implosion, Tragedy)
- 2x Quilford (Cosca, implosion)
- 4x implosion (Cosca, Tragedy, Quilford, Zang)
- 2x MoI (implosion, Quilford)
- 2x vezok (implosion, Quilford)

Need reads list from:

- jason
- MoI
- SK
- vezok
- Zang
- Scumhunter
- CC's replacement


UNVOTE:
VOTE: implosion

[Quilford]

Scum:

- 3x jason (Cosca, Tragedy, Scumhunter)
- 2x SK (implosion, Quilford)
- 2x Tragedy (vezok, SK)
- Zang (Scumhunter)
- 2x Cosca (MoI, SK)
- Quilford (Zang)
- CC (vezok)
- Scumhunter (vezok)
- implosion (SK)

Leaning scum:

- 3x vezok (Cosca, Tragedy, SK)
- 4x Tragedy (Cosca, implosion, Quilford, MoI)
- 2x jason (Quilford, MoI)
- CC (Tragedy)
- 2x Quilford (Tragedy, SK)
- 2x Scumhunter (Zang, SK)
- Cosca (Zang)
- Zang (SK)

Neutral (Null? / Mixed?):

- 2x MoI (Cosca, Scumhunter)
- 3x Cosca/IceGuy (implosion, Tragedy, vezok)
- 3x jason (implosion, Zang, vezok)
- 2x Scumhunter/fatlikepig (implosion, vezok)
- Zang (Quilford)
- 3x SK (Tragedy, Scumhunter, Zang)
- CC (Zang)
- Tragedy (Zang)

Leaning town:

- 5x CC (Cosca, implosion, Quilford, Scumhunter, SK)
- SK (Cosca)
- Scumhunter/fatlikepig (Quilford)
- 2x Cosca (Scumhunter, Quilford)
- Tragedy (Scumhunter)
- 2x vezok (Scumhunter, Zang)

Town:

- 5x Zang (Cosca, implosion, Tragedy, MoI, vezok)
- 4x Quilford (Cosca, implosion, Scumhunter, vezok)
- 7x implosion (Cosca, Tragedy, Quilford, Zang, Scumhunter, MoI, vezok)
- 5x MoI (implosion, Quilford, Zang, vezok, SK)
- 3x vezok (implosion, Quilford, MoI)
- SK (vezok)
- jason (SK)

Need reads list from:

- jason
- MoI (based off of most recent post w/ Executioners / Executionees list)
- CC's replacement



okay so I did something weird and assigned everyone a score: +2 for a town read, +1 for a leaning town read, -1 for a leaning scum read and -2 for a scum read

Disclaimer: this should only serve as a potentially slightly inaccurate tl;dr - most points (towniest) to least (scummiest)

implosion: 12 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement
MagnaofIllusion: 10 (7 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement, Tragedy
Zang: 7 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement
Vezokpiraka: 5 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement
Quilford: 4 (7 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement, MoI
Captain Corporal: 2 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement
SleepyKrew: -1 (7 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement, MoI
Scumhunter: -3 (6 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement, MoI, Tragedy
Cosca: -4 (7 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement
jasonT1981: -6 (9 reads) - missing CC's replacement
Tragedy: -7 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement

[Quilford]

TOWN
MagnaofIllusion
jasonT1981
Captain Corporal
------------------Willing to Execute anyone below this line.
vezokpiraka
Scumhunter
Zang
Quilford
implosion
Cosca
Tragedy
SCUM

Holy shit my reads are terrible this game. I have 0 townreads and a ton of scumreads.

Also wtf are these terrible reads. Tragedy is like the only one I agree with.

[Quilford]

EBWOP:

Town:

<snip>

- 6x MoI (implosion, Quilford, Zang, vezok, SK, Tragedy)

MagnaofIllusion: 12 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement

, Tragedy

PEdit: Bluh. I'll update that when I can be bothered.

[Quilford]

I read you in ISO and I got a thoroughly nullish vibe.

[Quilford]

That sounds really weak. I'll find some better reasoning for it soonish

[Quilford]

> IMPLOSION/QUILFORD AGREES THAT I'M BEING UNCLEAR ABOUT MY READS.

This isn't the reason I'm suspicious of you. I'm suspicious of you because your scumhunting, for some reason, does not feel genuine.

Oh right...
But this is about Quilford too.

Something about Tragedy's posting is reading as disingenuous.

This is exactly what I wanted to say.

[Quilford]

For those people who do not want to read pages of back-and-forth between who I consider to be two distracted townies.

Who do you think should be elected as Night Executioner?
Would you prefer vezok or implosion as Day Executioner?
Who should be executed today (PLEASE do not waffle about how you're indecisive. ONE PERSON ONLY)?
Who should be executed at night (see above)?

For me it's implosion, no preference as long as they execute who they're told, SK (recent posts of his are looking more and more scummy), Tragedy.

[Quilford]

Can we do Cosca first?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: vezok
MoI for NightExec again hooah.

This is just... wut. Opportunistic scum claim.

K so, I'd like one of these three to be killed today (no particular order):
Cosca
Tragedy
Scumhunter

What a coincidence that he happens to pick the three people who are considered scummiest and/or are generating most debate.

TOWN
MagnaofIllusion
jasonT1981
Captain Corporal
------------------Willing to Execute anyone below this line.
vezokpiraka
Scumhunter
Zang
Quilford
implosion
Cosca
Tragedy
SCUM

Holy shit my reads are terrible this game. I have 0 townreads and a ton of scumreads.

These reads give him a pass to go with the flow considering that all potential execution candidates (excepting Jason) are listed under his execution line. And then he pre-emptively admits that they're poor reads.


I most want to see SKrew executed today, followed by Tragedy and then Scumhunter or jason.

[Quilford]

I am a miller. I have other abilities that are helpful to the town.

I don't think a full claim is necessary right now.

[Quilford]

Because I saw a thread here somewhere talking about when millers should and shouldn't claim, and I'd much prefer to play as townie as possible to make it not an issue than to draw a whole heap of attention on Day 1, when I have additional abilities. I was in a semi-Open recently where the real miller claimed on Day 1 and it lead to a whole heap of negative focus.

I'll dig up the thread and the game.

[Quilford]

The thread about millers: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15940

The game: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=17365

[Quilford]

Too bad.

It's not my fault you happened to be the one with both a cop ability and a guilty result on me. I'm sure that anyone with a town read on me right now who was suddenly told that I was guilty would not disbelieve me so easily.

[Quilford]

I rather strongly doubt that there are two cops in this game.

[Quilford]

But Mr. Miller, your own claimed role suggests mechanics that would undermine the utility of cop reports.

Doesn't mean there would be two sane cops.

I think one of you is paranoid or insane.

[Quilford]

I think MoI is scum, not just based on the report though.

I don't think it would be one of those fucked up 4-cop setups. I feel there would be more flavor hints towards that if that were the case. If there are any other cop claims, I think they should claim now though.

Given this information, who do you want to lynch Quilford?

You.

There's no way this game contains more than one cop, and Zang seems pretty legit to me.

[Quilford]

Quilford, you just contradicted yourself by the way. One post you just said "I think one of you is paranoid or insane". And the very next post you said you want me to hang. Either you believe there are 2 cops or you don't. My spidey senses are telling me this was a slip and you know we are both real.

I don't. I meant to say I think one of you would have to be paranoid or insane.

[Quilford]

Scumhunter is scum. Cool.

[Quilford]

I'm not revealing anything about my other powers until I'm forced to.

[Quilford]

I'm not dying.

[Quilford]

It was not a slip, for fuck's sake. I was typing under the hypothetical that you were both actually cops.

@SK: When you say 'papers', are you referring to 'important U.S. documents'?

[Quilford]

Quilford's miller claim is bs. Even noobs know to claim miller d1 in a game like this. I've seen Quilford ICing newbie games. He aint no noob

I have

never

IC'd a Newbie game.

[Quilford]

The thread about millers: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15940

The game: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=17365

This is why I did not claim miller.

I *really* do not think it could be more obvious that Scumhunter is scum.

[Quilford]

Tragedy, I'm town. Please believe me. I wouldn't lie to you. Maybe to these asshats, but not to you

I'm serious! I know you can't believe me now just on that but -_______-

Are you kidding me?!

[Quilford]

Scumhunter needs death asap

[Quilford]

Scumhunter needs death asap

Thanks brah, if you scumlords win you owe me a cookie at least.

You had a townread on me and a scumread on Zang.

When Zang claimed guilty on me you

instantly

flipped.

Instantly.

You didn't even take into account any possible reasoning why your scumread could have a guilty on your townread.

Town don't do that. They just don't.

[Quilford]

Quil, you're giving me your paper, right?

Do you think scum can have papers?

Can you tell if you receive a paper? Because if not, I'd prefer to give it to one of my...

stronger

townreads.

[Quilford]

When I say 'have', I mean: do you think they can start out with them?

[Quilford]

Scumhunter can you do a tl;dr as to why you claimed cop?

[Quilford]

Quilford, Zang would have no reason to counterclaim me, when I'm being VI-ish and faking a guilty on MoI. He wouldn't do that as scum to save a scum MoI partner and he certainly wouldn't do it as scum if me on MoI was town on town.

He thought you and MoI was scum on town respectively, as is evidenced by his reads list. But you exclude that possibility for no good reason.

He would do that as town to save a town MoI.

That being changing one's mind on reads. Anyone with half a brain can see how retarded that sounds.

Anyone with half a brain can see how much of an

understatement

that is.

[Quilford]

Yes Quilford, he would do that as town, aka the town cop, aka having a real report, aka a guilty on you, the

scum

miller. That just proves my point as to why I should have immediately believed him don't you think?

How does it do that at all?

[Quilford]

I strongly recommend I am at least executed tonight so I can pass these papers on.

I have no problem with that whatsoever, even if I'm not sure why claiming Miller in response to a cop investigation is bad when I have produced evidence as to why I did it and yet regardless,

regardless

people are still demanding my execution.

If the cop were anyone who didn't have a scum read on me - which was the majority of the players - then this would never happen and I could live out my Miller claim without mass uproar.

[Quilford]

I don't think it matters who is the day executioner, but Zang should be the night executioner.

[Quilford]

EXECUTE THE FUCK OUT OF QUILFORD

LET ME PASS MY PAPERS ON FIRST YOU DUMBASS

[Quilford]

honestly id have given up by now if i was scum since i hate being scum. no joke.

hehe

you remember that newbie we were in?

[Quilford]

You can execute me tonight, once I've passed on my papers.

The newbie is conclusive proof that I am shit as scum.

[Quilford]

Find it yourself. I was really embarrassed about my play there.

[Quilford]

woop woop
terrible play incoming

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17472

[Quilford]

Cmon now, I immediately called my cc real as soon as he claimed.

Is this sarcasm?

[Quilford]

Cmon now, I immediately called my cc real as soon as he claimed.

Is this sarcasm?

Scumhunter I actually want an answer

[Quilford]

But seriously I am town. Cmon now, I immediately called my cc real as soon as he claimed.

There is a gaping hole in your logic here.

[Quilford]

Zang, regardless of whether or not you think my miller claim is crap, I need to pass my papers on tonight.

You execute Scumhunter today and then we elect you again and you can execute me tonight.

Do you have any problem with that?

[Quilford]

...

Can you elaborate

at all

?

[Quilford]

Zang kills SH now.
Zang kill Quil tonight.
Tragedy, Jason recently checked in. Try pretending to be useful by calling out someone else.

This is what should happen.

[Quilford]

The fact of the matter is, we have a cop that has a guilty on Quil, no matter what, nothing will change that, and that means there is absolutely no other means for checking Quil's status in this game. I see no reason why it makes sense to let Quil live to night. Quil saying that SH should die first honestly likely further proves SH's innocence without any investigation at all.

I have papers that I need to pass on before I die. I have stated this several times.

[Quilford]

Why would scum have papers. They would never pass them on.

Also how would SK know whether papers pass to the killer when they die.

[Quilford]

I'll pass my paper onto Zang tonight, but SH needs to be executed today just in case your paper isn't passed onto your Executioner.

[Quilford]

I don't understand most of that post.

I'm pretty sure something important happens when someone gathers all the papers.

Why should I die today and not tonight? I'll be dead either way, but if I die tonight I'll at least have passed my papers on.

[Quilford]

What do you mean, 50/50 chance?

And why do you think I am scum again?

[Quilford]

loooooooool


If your executioner gets your papers then I'm fine with dying today.

[Quilford]

What do you mean, 50/50 chance?

And why do you think I am scum again?

Because there is a guilty on you, and we have no way to prove that you are not lying about being a miller, other than to kill you. You are either a miller, or scum. And if you are a miller, it is easier to assume that there is a 3 person scum team, have you been reading anything I've said here?

This post is so wrong on so many levels and doesn't explain why I must die today instead of tonight.

[Quilford]

I'm scum because there's a guilty on me and not because I've done scummy things. Riiiiiiight.

[Quilford]

Well to be fair Quil, thinking you are scum for having a scum guilty on you (regardless of Miller claim) is a good enough reason to think you are scum. Doesn't matter how scummy you have been... a cop guilty is a cop guilty and worthy of believing you are scum.

I claimed Miller. And ML didn't list any other reasons why I was scummy.

[Quilford]

So what if the last Execution Mafia had a role that allowed scumbuddies to save each other? Doesn't mean this one will. And I need to be executed tonight so I can pass my papers on.

[Quilford]

Are you setting me up for a mislynch tomorrow?

[Quilford]

Your comments about me-scum not being killed tonight make me feel very strongly that if I survive through the night you are scum and you are setting up my mislynch for tomorrow.

Regardless, I need to pass my papers on and Scumhunter is far scummier.

[Quilford]

So, how would I be setting you up for a mislynch if there is a cop guilty on you already? /fail. please try again.

Because I show up as guilty to cop investigations?

[Quilford]

yes, because I think you are scum and lying about the Miller claim. Its just too convenient for my liking. You have a role that would show up as guilty to a cop, but didn't actually say anything until there was a cop guilty... umm yea, no!

I explained this several times to general ignorance... because if you don't claim Miller when you're supposed to, there's no way you can be town, right?

[Quilford]

yeah yeah but you've had a (vague and terrible) scum read on me all game

people who thought I was town and are now jumping on me because of my late claim are probably scum

[Quilford]

I'm not LlamaFluff and I provided reasons as to why I didn't claim earlier.

[Quilford]

It doesn't matter what the general consensus is - that's a scum mindset. The following quotes were what swayed me not to claim miller:

People seem to underestimate the value of a miller in catching out a fake cop claimant,. Basically, the claim d1 thing seems to be based on the notion that, of all the very many things that can happen with a miller, one of them is disastrous, and therefore has to be prevented at all costs. The thing is, although bad, it isn't really very

likely

.

Millers should be--like any other player--be judged on their play. If they're scummy, lynch 'em, if they're town, let 'em be NK'd. (I am against policy-lynching millers. If a player claims miller, yet scum hunts well, why lynch 'em?) This--to me--also applies to the Miller in question. If the miller thinks their play is sub-optimal overall and that they'll catch flak, an immediate claim will be less scummy than a later claim. If the miller thinks they're going to be playing a fairly good game, there's no need to claim. Now, I've always been of the opinion millers should claim, but reading this thread has made me reconsider that position, due to the reasons mentioned.

Basically, it is a case-by-case thing, and it is up to the player. As mentioned, always claiming immediately might not be the most beneficial thing to do. However, not claiming early can be equally devastating. So, the player in question must ask themselves if they think they'll be investigated, or if they'll be fine. If the former, claim. If the latter, don't.

I know KK pulled it off famously

This was also in part due to the fact that both mafia factions were targeting him heavily. The claim itself wasn't that important; his attackers (for legitimately scummy things he did, not for the claim itself) were more important, in my opinion, than the claim itself. ZazieR (his partner) and I (of the Ceruleans) both pushed hard for his lynch. After that (surely, if both mafia factions attacked him hard, he couldn't be a member of either!), he was "pretty much confirmed town". >_< This game didn't change my opinion on miller claims, though. (Actually, it's the only game I've been in with a miller claim, so that might have something to do with it... :P) If they claim, it's no different than any other player: scummy-->strung up, town-->left alone. And their decision on whether they should claim should be influenced by what they think others will think of their claim.

Alright, so I might still be a bit bitter about that game. =P

(Having recently read my posts there in ISO, though, I realize it was my fault, in many ways, so I'm most angry at myself for failing so epically.)

So, I was going through an old thread and I found a post by myself, chastising someone for claiming miller on Day 1.

Now I realize that it's widely accepted that claiming miller on Day 1 is the best play, but I disagree. Here's why:

One might also say that how you've played your 'miller' role is regardless far less than pro-town, even if not the MOST anti-town:

1. townies only want to lynch scum. if you're not scum, you should give them every possible reason to think you're not scum.
2. investigators only want to target scum. if you're not scum, you should give them every possible reason to think you're not scum.
3. vigilantes only want to target scum. if you're not scum, you should give them every possible reason to think you're not scum.
4. scum don't know a miller is a miller. if you were exceptionally pro-town in the daytime, you could have hoped to draw a nightkill.

now those are the BEST ways to play miller. what you did do, however, was claim. and this just opens up all sorts of WIFOMbuckets™.

1. townies might want to lynch you solely based on the fact that you might just be scum WIFOMing it up.
2. investigators might investigate you anyways. dumb, but i wouldn't put it past some scummers i've met. believe it.
3. and if that's not enough, asking a vig to take you out is an out-and-out WASTE of a vig kill. seriously. ugh. see #4 above.

if you are in fact a pro-town role, you should have just shut up about your miller claim and eaten a lynch gracefully if someone DID investigate you. plus, you could have hoped to catch scum wagoning onto you for poor reasons, or any other possible useful thing you could have done until the endgame. in conclusion, you are pretty much a waste of a townie, if in fact you are a townie. you have helped the scum twice as much as the town, and i'm thoroughly displeased with you either way.

Discuss.

and in that game so much time was spent on the miller claim and we nearly mislynched because of it

[Quilford]

The majority of the players had town reads on me, and since I am town I decided not to shoot them by claiming. Figures that Zang, then, should be a cop.

[Quilford]

So what? Their ideas are perfectly valid.

[Quilford]

Jason you're really making it hard for me to not insult you

[Quilford]

I'm lobbying to live through the goddamn day, Scumhunter, because it's a given that I'll be executed and I need to pass these papers on first.

[Quilford]

I have an important US document. I know that if a player gets hold of all of them, something will happen. I can pass it on to another person at night if I want to.

- loosely paraphrased from role pm

[Quilford]

You got this document from someone else or from your role PM?

From my role PM.

What is the name of your document?

It doesn't have a name.

Do you know what happens if someone gets a hold of all of them?

Something important, apparently.

---

so you are willing to trust the word of the uncc'd cop's guilty

1) We don't actually know if he's a cop
2) I'm a miller


You're completely dead set on me being scum and it's just because the cop has a guilty on me. I don't get it.

[Quilford]

so you are willing to trust the word of the uncc'd cop's guilty

1)

We don't actually know if he's a cop

2) I'm a miller


You're completely dead set on me being scum and it's just because the cop has a guilty on me. I don't get it.

Bolded is 110% a slip.

Your role PM says you are a miller and you don't think we have a cop in the setup?
Also, your answers to my questions were very very helpful. /sarcasm

Bolded is 110% you being desperate scum. SK is right. I didn't say there isn't a cop. And just because I'm a miller doesn't mean there's a cop in the setup: this game was advertised as "slightly bastard", after all, and I've seen at least one setup before that had a miller but no cop (and it garnered a lot of attention).

[Quilford]

You better hope papers get passed onto the Executioner, then.

And don't forget to organise your nightkill.

[Quilford]

so you are willing to trust the word of the uncc'd cop's guilty

1) We don't actually know if he's a cop
2) I'm a miller


You're completely dead set on me being scum and it's just because the cop has a guilty on me. I don't get it.

So feel free to disbelieve me, but 1) was brought up as more of a theoretical point than anything. I'm not that desperate and we've had the "I'm a miller" conversation many times before.

[Quilford]

scumhunter dearest why would I claim miller as scum

why
why
why

[Quilford]

implosion claiming miller as scum would ensure my death

as we can see quite clearly

I would've pushed the theory that Zang was scum or an insane cop. I'm not dumb enough to claim miller as scum, especially not after a cop guilty on me.

[Quilford]

implosion claiming miller as scum would ensure my death

as we can see quite clearly

I would've pushed the theory that Zang was scum or an insane cop. I'm not dumb enough to claim miller as scum, especially not after a cop guilty on me.

LlamaFluff did the same thing and he is a better player than you.

What on earth are you talking about

[Quilford]

so you are willing to trust the word of the uncc'd cop's guilty

1) We don't actually know if he's a cop
2) I'm a miller


You're completely dead set on me being scum and it's just because the cop has a guilty on me. I don't get it.

So feel free to disbelieve me, but 1) was brought up as more of a theoretical point than anything. I'm not that desperate and we've had the "I'm a miller" conversation many times before.

[Quilford]

If there were papers in scum's hands, they would be useless because they'd

never

pass them on. And if one of them came under suspicion they'd just pass it to the towniest member of their team!

[Quilford]

That reminds me. Who should I be passing the papers onto?

[Quilford]

If there were papers in scum's hands, they would be useless because they'd

never

pass them on. And if one of them came under suspicion they'd just pass it to the towniest member of their team!

Then why do you demand to be executed at night over day when it is obvious under that premise that papers are passed on through death?

I assumed scum is accounting for the possibility.

I really think that if papers were passed onto the killer, I would be told in my role PM.

I'll pass the papers onto Zang, then?

[Quilford]

If there were papers in scum's hands, they would be useless because they'd

never

pass them on. And if one of them came under suspicion they'd just pass it to the towniest member of their team!

Then why do you demand to be executed at night over day when it is obvious under that premise that papers are passed on through death?

I assumed scum is accounting for the possibility.

I really think that if papers were passed onto the killer, I would be told in my role PM.

I'll pass the papers onto Zang, then?

So you think that a slightly bastard game would tell you that the papers were passed on death? I doubt they would in a regular game but this is Junpei talking and I'm not too sure what is normal and what isn't. Do you think the mod then would tell you what would happen if the papers were gathered?¹ I feel like we can only assume that the papers transfer on death, as if they do not then scum can not have papers at gamestart.² This would create a situation where everyone with papers claims early on and gives it to a town.³ Isn't it also possible that the papers trigger a

bad

event for the person/faction?⁴

¹ I'll ask.
² Scum can lack papers at gamestart without them transferring on death.
³ What if scum have a recruitment mechanism? A roleblocker? What if the townie they elect to pass the papers to is actually scum? This would never happen in the first place because people with papers wouldn't think to claim - I certainly didn't.
⁴ They're U.S. papers. Does any claimed power role have any mention of their nationality in their Role P.M.?

[Quilford]

If we give them to scum, probably.

[Quilford]

The town is U.S. aligned, according to mallow. Since the papers are U.S. documents I think there would be a benefit in collecting them.

Unfortunately my paper questions weren't answered ("Are papers transferred to the killer on death? And what happens when someone gathers all the papers?")

[Quilford]

Now, for those who question why scum would have papers:

If only town had papers, then what would stop them from organizing as soon as possible, (like we are trying now) to put all the papers in one place? Everyone with papers could just claim that, and decide a person to give them to. It makes sense that someone of a different alliance would have them, to prevent that from happening. This also makes me heavily believe that papers will be passed to the person that kills someone with them, because if both sides have papers, then like quil says himself, why would scum give them up? I believe likewise could be said about town... that they would only give papers to someone is confirmed town, so how else would any scum be able to obtain them?

It seems to me, that if we assume both that only town has papers to begin with, and that the papers are NOT passed with death, it states that only town can actually use the papers.

I do not believe is the case. This is another reason why I think it is best to kill quil in the day. There is no argument as to whether he is dying or not, but we get more value out of the information when he dies with a paper. Otherwise, if he is indeed scum with a paper, then we are risking him passing it to a partner, which as I said, I would rather lose the papers, than risk them getting to scum.

This is just setup WIFOM! It actually is! I am a townie and I will die with my papers when we could execute SH, scum without papers, during the day and have me executed at night where I can pass them on. And there is this small group of conspiracy theorists who are pushing the most remote possibilities - existence of a scum roleblocker, doctor, etc. in order to have me executed during the day. These people are scum who want to completely avert the possibility of town gathering all the papers.

There would be literally no point to the papers if scum could start of with them for two reasons.
1) Scum have probably already passed their papers onto their towniest members in the possibility that they are passed onto the Executioner. This essentially means that town will never get hold of these papers until the game has already finished!
2) And if scum haven't done this already (which I

strongly

doubt considering there's already been a night), then if the papers aren't passed onto the Executioner they die with the papers, meaning essentially that it is BAD TO KILL SCUM. That defeats the purpose.

[Quilford]

...

Okay. Scum got hold of the nightkill, apparently. I voted for implosion. Claim who you voted for in your next post, obviously.

Vezokpiraka:

MagnaofIllusion:

jasonT1981:

Quilford:

implosion

Scumhunter:

SleepyKrew:

Cosca:

implosion:

Tragedy:

I also completed a reread of the thread; here's an updated reads list with cases for my scumreads coming soon.

Town:

implosion
Scumhunter

Leaning Town:

SleepyKrew
Cosca

Leaning Scum:

MagnaofIllusion

Scum:

Vezokpiraka
jasonT1981
Tragedy

[Quilford]

Mod, where in your rules does it say the executioner is killed when we get to deadline?

[Quilford]

So Tragedy, who's scum?

[Quilford]

meta - both on his previous slot and on him now

plus I think I've been unfairly suspecting him more since he started suspecting me

[Quilford]

Hey vezok can you show me where you provided content at any point during the game?

[Quilford]

Vezokpiraka:

MoI

MagnaofIllusion:

jasonT1981:

Quilford:

implosion

Scumhunter:

SleepyKrew:

implosion

Cosca:

implosion

implosion:

Tragedy:

implosion

[Quilford]

vezok's done nothing all game except call for my lynch and discuss theory - occasionally there'll be a reads list posted with no thought processes behind it described
his day two posts are a perfect model

jason's been scum since forever

Tragedy's reads are weak and she's lurking

[Quilford]

vezok's done nothing all game except call for my lynch and discuss theory - occasionally there'll be a reads list posted with no thought processes behind it described
his day two posts are a perfect model

jason's been scum since forever

Tragedy's reads are weak and she's lurking

You are scum.
I don't need to post content when everyone knows you are scum. You need to die right now.

oh jeez vezok I wonder where I've heard that before?

I voted MoI.

Also quilford you eat rope today. Confirmed cop with guilty on you means you are guilty.

You die today.

Zang kill quilford faster.

If there were papers in scum's hands, they would be useless because they'd

never

pass them on. And if one of them came under suspicion they'd just pass it to the towniest member of their team!

You can't pass them if we execute you now.

Also the papers could also be useful to scum. Like in Candy Zoo mafia.

How dumb do you have to be to not lynch a cop guilty? OMFG.

implosion claiming miller as scum would ensure my death

as we can see quite clearly

I would've pushed the theory that Zang was scum or an insane cop. I'm not dumb enough to claim miller as scum, especially not after a cop guilty on me.

LlamaFluff did the same thing and he is a better player than you.

What on earth are you talking about

You claimed miller in response to cop. Like LLamafluff. You are using WIFOM now.

You are scum.

implosion claiming miller as scum would ensure my death

as we can see quite clearly

I would've pushed the theory that Zang was scum or an insane cop. I'm not dumb enough to claim miller as scum, especially not after a cop guilty on me.

LlamaFluff did the same thing and he is a better player than you.

Shut up and die scum.

Also if Zang doesn't execute Quilford today he's scum.

I want Quilford dead though,

I'll vote Zang for night.

WOW for SK being the right one and having to fight like that:)

Everyone shut up.

Zang execute quilford and lets finish this.

The above posts were total shit. My brain hurts after reading them.

We kill quilford. THE SCUM.

Then we focus on Scumhunter. The probable scum.

We killed the one confirmed scum Quilford.

Then at night someone kills the other semi confirmed scum Scumhunter.

Please tell me why this sin;t the best plan?

Right now quilford goes down.

YOU ALWAYS lynch claimed millers in response to cop. There is no way you don't do that. After that someone should NK Scumhunter.

[Quilford]

vezok this is some good content you got going here; these reads are rich in detail and not brief and vague at all

Right now Cosca is scummier than MoI.

MoI is making very good points while Cosca is just defeating some arguments. That's the way I see it.

I wish scumhunter dead today, but if the people want Cosca more I'll happily agree if I'm executioner again.

Hey.

Scumhunter is even worse than Chaos_Omega. Guess who shot up my list of suspects?

Town
MoI
SK
Quilford
Zang
implosion

null
Cosca
scumhunter
jason

scum
captain corporal
tragedy

Probably the ones who replaced fatlikeapig and chaos omega should be in the scum group but I don;t remember who they were.

Hey, I just requested a replacement. Ever since I went V/LA D1, I haven't really been as up to speed as I would've liked.
Sorry

Dumb. Please stop playing games here. You are going to replace out of every single one.

I'm somehow back. Tomorrow I'll be in full control of internet and stuff like that will comment on most of the things.

Right now Tragedy seems to be playing her own game. It feels like she isn't playing the same game right now.

She is my top scum read right now.

As for other people. I don't find anything interesting. Cosca was pretty weird when he attacked SK.

Ok.

Cod should be it I see.

fatlikeabig get my third scum read. Good job.

Why don't you have a second scum read? You questioned me before. You don't consider me scum anymore?

Everyone should post top two scum reads.

Vezok 1-cod 2-chaos omega

Actually, vezok, I'd like you to answer the question posed in fatlikepig's post:

1) Why are my cases on SK and Codfish wrong (you stated they were)?
2) If they are wrong, why did you say SK was null and Codfish was leaning scum?

I see SK as misguided town that could be scum( neutral). That's why I don't agree with your case.

As for codfish he is pretty scummy and I agree with you.

As for the wrong comment it was when you started capsraging and doing stuff I didn't agree with.

vote: Quilford

Any reason you haven't voted yet, Codfish?

WTF?

You plant a vote on quillford and then you say nothing about me SK and codfish?

Great job.

As I see MoI doesn't want to be executioner.

unvote
vote MoI

As for NK: Don't choose the same executioner as the day one. It's one of the worst tactics.


Right now MoI is head of the town list.

Chaosomega seems incredibly off and pretty scummy. Last game 2 scums lurked their way to victory and never got caught in discussion or something like that.

So Cod and jason are town?

I'm not sure.

Right now Cod fish is leaning scum and jason is neutral.

[Quilford]

vezok this isn't five days' worth of no content, over and over again, is it? surely not

execute codfish

MoI is the night vote everyone.

Hammer.

In one minute.

1 hour before execution. Talk now or hold your voice forever.

I'm hammering today.

Are you sure you don't have anymore to say?

Tomorrow at 8 o'clock GMT probably I'll hammer.

I'm not hammering until everything is set up.

The ultimatum was for you to get up because I see people that don't do anything until deadline hits and I thought it will bring more discussion.

I'm executing Codfish in 48 hours or less.

If anyone wants to say anything say it now or don't.

Goddamit I meant power role. SK disease is contagious.

I see a lot of nothing.

Do we need anything or can I execute cod and go through night and vote MoI?

[Quilford]

oh btw all of these are in reverse chronological order

[Quilford]

isn't it interesting that all of that is one month's worth of content from vezok?

how about I go ISO a town player and point out the difference

[Quilford]

I voted for MedicatedLain for night executioner, aka the obvious town that none of you were listening to yesterday.

Also, how the hell did Zang die.

And Quilford...um...what? You were pushing so hard on me and all of a sudden you think im town?

Amazing, right?

I changed my mind. crazyyyyyyyyyy

Quilford, can you explain what meta you have on me that makes you think I'm town? Also you are still the cop's guilty...so...

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17472

Remember that game?

Also I am still a miller...so...

hmmm, I wonder why no one has asked this yet.

Quilford, did you pass your papers last night?

Nope; good thing too considering after Zang's death I was going to pass them to ML.

[Quilford]

vezok being an idiot is null.
Quil, did you forget all the AtEs and the FAKE COP?

How is there any trace of idiocy in those posts.

AtE is Scumhunter's meta, apparently. And I no longer think that scum would have done such a thing. I was just tunnelling on him ^___^

[Quilford]

Hey Cosca who do you think are jason's buddies?

[Quilford]

Vezokpiraka:

MoI

MagnaofIllusion:

jasonT1981:

implosion

Quilford:

implosion

Scumhunter:

Medicated Lain

SleepyKrew:

implosion

Cosca:

implosion

implosion:

Tragedy:

implosion[/quote]

[Quilford]

hmmm, I wonder why no one has asked this yet.

Quilford, did you pass your papers last night?

Nope; good thing too considering after Zang's death I was going to pass them to ML.

Oh? You were assuming and depending so much on scum getting the NK, knowing that ML would be dead first thing in the Night?

Very

interesting.

Um, no?

I was going to pass them to ML, but I decided against it because people had explicitly told me to pass them to Zang yesterday?

[Quilford]

Quilford, so you are saying aTe = me being town. In my only scum game on here I did massive amounts of aTe as well...

Link?

[Quilford]

Also you should probably go check fatlikepig's meta.

[Quilford]

wooooo I'm flipflopping so hard here

things that I am certain of:
Vezok is scum
implosion is town
SKrew is town

Scumhunter can go back down to delicious null after implosion's recent series of posts

[Quilford]

You know you could just not post and nothing would change

[Quilford]

You know you could just not post and nothing would change

[Quilford]

wooooo I'm flipflopping so hard here

things that I am certain of:
Vezok is scum
implosion is town
SKrew is town

Woooo, people who thinks you're town is town to you.
Holy crap Quilford, can this get anymore scummier?

lol

If you like I can go into detail; it's just a coincidence.

vote Cosca

[Quilford]

D:

[Quilford]

MoI - jason - vezok (don't think there's a fourth)

lol at MoI making himself obvious

[Quilford]

Vezok full reads list with reasoning, I believe I've asked you this before