Mini 1193: Hacker's Panic mafia. (Game Over)

[don_johnson]

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

no. you don't get me right at all. your argument conveniently leaves out the fact that there was another flip involved here. when i made my argument about parama possibly being scum independent of bob's actions, zodiark had not flipped. with zodiark flipping scum

and

bobsnox flipping town, parama moves into the more likely town category. you see, you missed an entire 50% of my reasoning.

So that means that you lied.

spin city my brother. no lie here.

If your case on Parama was totally based off of individual tells, then why did it change all of a sudden when bobsnox flipped town? And why is it that the

only

reason you give for Parama being town is totally based off of that fact?

again. 50% of my reasoning is ignored. zod wasn't confirmed scum at the time.

Oh, and you were defending scum, whether he was flipped or not at that time is irrelavent because you knew who he was regardless.

-Bub

untruth. i was defending zod because i thought he was not so eloquent town getting a raw deal. in my neck of the woods(where scum players are good) they don't get taken down by things like blatant contradictions. i see that type of behavior way more often from poorly posting town. same with lies, etc. but whatever.

But...

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for creating a crap case on now-confirmed town to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Seriously, why hasn't this slot been lynch yet?

hows about you build one of those "cases" you are always asking for. you know, with quotes and such. imaginality and des deserve a look too. did you notice deselby acting like a white knight yesterday when there was no real danger?

[don_johnson]

ignore the "why don't you make a case" comment. now that i reread your post i see that you actually did make a little case there. good job. still, i'd like more input from other slots today. even if we hit scum today, there is most likely a third running around and they could be very well hidden at this point.

[xvart]

Don, let me tell you this. I could refute every single argument that you have made. I could point to your "case" on bob and show how you never quoted him, and how you never brought. However, I do not have the time to do so. Tomorrow I will.

Bub has told me that he has some thoughts. Specifically about having deflecting or something along those lines.

And this is a super scummy post by virtue of trying to get out from under suspicion before it builds any steam.

can you explain this one a bit more? i'm not really following what you're saying.

Basically it boils down to the question "why post believe you me that I can tear apart your case and show you how faulty it is but I don't have time to do so right now, so you'll have to wait until tomorrow. But just believe me that it is terrible." There is no town motivation to saying anything like that (and if there is I can't think of it) so the only thing is trying to squash it before it goes anywhere with the subtlety I can do this and I will (later).

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for

creating a crap case on now-confirmed town

to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Referring to my bolded emphasis I assume you are talking about me since fitz is voting me, but how am I confirmed town now?

[Humble Poirot]

Those in danger of being exposed #18:

don_johnson (2)

- Parama, CooLskins,

xvart (1)

- havingfitz,

CooLskins (1)

- xvart,

Not Voting (3)

- imaginality, deselby, don_johnson,

With 7 Alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Edit

: fixed don_johnson's vote (from vote deselby to unvote)

[deselby]

Parama – your scum hunting hasn’t had a good enough strike rate in this game for you not to bother putting forth a case on any target

To address dons suspicion of me- As I said, my vote post was a bit clumsy, but all I wanted to do was to state how I believed zod was heaps scummier than anyone else. He was always my top scumspect yesterday, and I was happy to put him at L-1. As everyone had voted at that stage except for imag I thought a quick hammer was pretty improbable. Obviously I was wrong about that.
Anyway, don, as it stands now, I am not sure of the scum motivation you assign to my vote since bobs flipped town and you think parama is probably town? If I were a “white knight” that means in your view (as it stands today) is that I saved 2 townies from a lynch in order to lynch a scum. Am I missing something?
I not sure I really agree with don’s statistical thoughts of parama. If bobs happened to track 2 out of 3 scum, then there is a 44% chance (2/3*2/3) that neither scum killed on that night. And now that we know he did track one scum, racking 2 scum is not that unlikely either. I think I can see your point, but I don’t think it is as significant as you seem to think. Having said all that, if anyone knows more about statistics than me (not hard) fell free to shout me down.
As for dons “we shouldn’t lynch neighbours” policy, your whole reasoning assumes you are town. I do not like this argument. You give no reason why the neighbourhood is scum free other than “xvart is town and I am town”. Lynching a neighbiour is a rather good idea IF there is scum in the hood.

[deselby]

Ok i have only concentrated on don here, from tomorrow i will have more time to reread everyone else.

[havingfitz]

@don...what was the mistake in your pm you referring to in post 512?

xvart is town based on his level headed posting.

Scum can't be level headed? Is there any other reason he is town?

if xvart was scum it would not be in his best interest to have me flip town.

Has xvart been pushing your lynch? From his lack of votes on you throughout the entire game I would say his actions support your hypothesis on how he would act as scum.

lynchpool should be fitz, imag, deselby in no particular order yet. i believe both scum(assuming statistic regularity) are in that pool of three.

Is this POE? Why is Coolskins not an option?

---

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

So that means that you lied.

Coolskins...can you provide a quote where don made the statements you are attributing to him above?

But...

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for creating a crap case on now-confirmed town to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Seriously, why hasn't this slot been lynch yet?

So I should be lynched today but you're voting don. "Scummy pie?" Why is my crap case and how the he|| is xvart confirmed town? And what scumbud am I protecting by voting xvart? don? You're just making shit up as you type...aren't you? Speaking of making shit up, I never said this, "didn't really notice Zodiark." Are you that _____ to completely fabricate a quote in order to substantiate suspicions on someone? Your comments re: bob are ridiculous...I noticed him because he was the scummiest player IMO until I reconsidered his claim. And why is someone who made 5 posts early in the game the basis for thinking I am worth a vote? What did kondi do that was so scummy and did antihero do anything to add to those suspicions?

[CooLskins]

I'm going to get to this first, before I get to don.

Basically all zodiark has done is vote for the person that hammered yesterday. And built up a small case on bob for swingy on and off of wagons. He hasn't generated that much content, but he has said anything that is overtly scummy.

I totally disagree with CooLDoG.

unvote; vote: zodiark

@xvart, Its not a flip flop. Its bub's view on zodiark. I personally have a null read on him atm.

I think CooLskins is scum. His opinion of Zodiark was soft/vague enough to allow to vote him if it came to it, and when pressure/speculation was put on them about that post, the other head comes back "woah I totally disagree he's obvscum". This flip flop is highly indicative of a scum relationship with their buddy. And the excuse "ooohh we are hydra, it's cool bro" doesn't cut it.

That's a misrepresentation of our stance on zodiark. I personally had zodiark as a null read. Bub on the other hand thought that zodiark was scummy. He made it very clear (to me at least) that our vote should be on zodiark. I trusted his judgment and that was it. If you think that's scummy then go ahead and vote me.

Don, let me tell you this. I could refute every single argument that you have made. I could point to your "case" on bob and show how you never quoted him, and how you never brought. However, I do not have the time to do so. Tomorrow I will.

Bub has told me that he has some thoughts. Specifically about having deflecting or something along those lines.

And this is a super scummy post by virtue of trying to get out from under suspicion before it builds any steam.

VOTE: CooLskins

I'm going to try to respond kindly to this next part see as it is completely full of shit and made up. A lesser man would vote your ass for even thinking about pulling this card. So I'm scum because I didn't have enough time to refute don's posts even though I explicitly stated that I would. And I'm non committal even though I have been avidly trying to get don lynched for over 2 days now? This is the definition of bullshit reasons. Stop chainsaw defing your neighbor that you yourself don't know his alignment.

Now lets get on to don's shit posting:

Now lets catch-up in the correct account.

Skins/parama/bob would not surprise me.

gain: parama stated bob was clear very early in game. Why? According to bob, parama has no night action, so he could not have investigated him. So why was parama confirming bob?

unvote, vote bobsnox

This isnt fitting together at all. I could see bob/parama bussing zodiark possibly, buy xvart makes good points. Bob has not been protown.

Okay yeah, you are scum. Never made a case on bob, never really contributed to the game.

no, i didn't make a case on bob. i don't always make a case. nothing scummy about that. i clearly explain here that i am confused by bob's and parama's actions. i am also agreeing with posting by xvart. please see 474, 480, 491.

So you were/are still an avid pusher of bob=scum even though you never bothered to make a case on him? And you being confused (apparently independent of his scumminess) by his play apparently warrants a vote. Sounds nice.

So right now we have all the smart people voting Zod, Zod trying to get bobsnox lynched, one of his scumbuddies in the neighbors assisting him, and the other neighbor being stupid. And havingfitz is making a fail and wasting his vote.
When Zodiark flips scum, I'm going to find out which of the neighbors is his buddy. Should be easy enough. Seeing the wagon now,

no way in hell both neighbors are town

.

Perfect assessment of the situation.

bolded is the start of "one neighbor

must

be scum fallacy." zod was not doing much of anything. xvart had the lead in the case against bob. given the odd relationship between parama and bob, i didn't see zod's position as scummy.

What case on bob? Link me I really want to see this. I was more refering to the part above where he was wifom setup speculating. Also, read zod's posts. He wasn't doing nothing.

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start.

the bob parama connection is odd to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier. absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob. bob didn't mind, i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, why isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop? excuse me tracker. so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill. of course, scum didn't know town had a tracker, right? this reads to me more like scum running fake claim than town being honest. details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious. bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?" well, if parama is your scum buddy and you are mafia tracker, then you have every incentive to. if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming, but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you." but he doesn't. he just keeps going along with it. i don't know. something about this situation just stinks and bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

anyhoo, i'm willing to start with parama to test the theory, in case bob is town. also, parama could be scum buddying town, so his lynch is a much better bet.

Bullshit "case" with nice vailed soft omgus you are catching on sorta thing. Also, not italics.

ok. so earlier you say "you didn't even post a case". now, you call it "bullshit"? how is it bullshit" what about this post is "bullshit"? imo, this post is a very coherent post which explains my suspicions in a clear and concise manner. i'm calling bob/parama out on their sketchy play and pointing out that bob's "we prolly don't have a cop" statement is seriously anti-town. so yeah. just quoting something and saying "bullshit" is poor posting. explain yourself. parama was not voting me and his suspicion of me has nothing to do with this post. "omgus" is you flinging shit against me hoping it will stick. i have already stated i think parama is town and i'll explain why a bit later. hint: its not because of his shit ass posting.

Keep in mind that when I compile these catch-up posts I read from the last place that I posted and then work forward. So yeah I did make a contradiction, but top earlier then bottom... Now to more meaty stuff in this section of your post... [/quote]
Your case is bullshit because it never quotes any of the two (parama and bob) you are talking about. Without a quote we have no reference to what we are talking about, you could (and in some cases probably are) misrepresenting them at some point. We can't even be sure that they said the things that you say they are saying. It also doesn't help that the whole top paragraph is speculative/wifom which contributes little to nothing to your apparent bob suspicion (ohh, you mean the guy who flipped town tracker? Oh yeah him.).

The bottom part is still speculation, and not really that logial at all. As a tracker you track your scummiest read to see if they kill. However, if that player is in fact scum and know that he is taking a lot of heat then one of his buddies will take the kill instead. In ine of my last scum games we knew that there was a tracker/watcher combo, we debated to the end of the night deadline who would submit the kill. Odly enough the tracker actually tracked one of my scum buddies. While bob is speculating about scum actions he is a tracker. Its almost his job to make an educated guess at who will submit the kill so that he can track that person to it.

[goodposting="parama"]

Bwahahaha, dj's definitely the scum neighbor. "I think bobsnox is scum, and I think Parama is scum by association, so let me lynch the player who I feel is scum by association instead of the one who I feel is scum for actual reasons."
At least the Zodiark wagon's the leading wagon again

[/goodposting]
This is exactly what I'm thinking by reading his posts. He thinks he can get you lynch

over

bob right now, so he is going to push that.

uh no. try reading:

parama, i don't think you're reading correctly. i thought i clearly stated that your actions were scummy independent of bobs alignment, not the other way around. the fact that you claim to have picked up his softclaim(no way in hell you interpreted him as "tracker", so you had to think he was most likely cop), and when he claimed a much less reliable role, you haven't questioned it one bit. thats odd to me.

in fact(snipped for brevity)you even say:

I would sorta agree with this, if you actually quoted one of parama's posts in your case.

what kind of things do you want me to quote? sorry, but giant quote walls are not something i try to do on a regular basis. if there is something you would like me to find and show you, tell me what that is and i will do it.

Where people are making scummy posts? I mean its only the most basic thing you could ever do? Also you are retroactively changing your opinion of something in the second (?) post that you quoted. And what you say is not always what you actually think. I can say that Parama is playing the best town game ever. Its what I said I think, but is it true? Hell no. That's kinda the point at looking at your posts to find your true intention/motivation/stance. And not quoting people leads to misrepresentation, in factual statements, and it shows a profound laziness (which shows you not caring about who gets lynched, unless that person happens to be zodiark or one of your other scum buds).

[qutoe]

That's it. No more. So not only do you think that an obv townie (bob) is scum. But you also think that someone "associated with him" is scum over that townie. You absolutly never outlined why, and now we defend a flipped scum. Okay.

zod hadn't flipped yet. ands again, you seem to be misinterpreting my suspicions. i clearly stated why i felt parama was scummy over bob. i also clearly stated why i thought bob was scummy(even if i simply agreed with xvarts posting and didn't post my own thoughts as eloquently.)[/quote]
Misunderstands point. Should I explain it to you? Lets.
It just so happens that your most powerful scum read (bob) was considered by the rest of the town to be very townie. He just happened to flip town. Your second most powerful scum read is totally based off of bob being scum (you will say otherwise, but it is). Then apparently one of your most powerful town read happened to get lynched (read: a majority of people thought he was scum). And you defended him. Understand now?

bob: not trying to "misrep" you. i just disagree with whats going on in general right now. i clearly explained the scum motivation for your actions.

if

parama is your

scumbuddy

then

your actions make perfect sense.

the fact that parama hasn't questioned you AT ALL reads like he may be scum trying to coast off your good graces, or you guys could be scumbuddies outed early and using a "hey, if things get tight i'll just claim towntracker" type gambit. i did a similar gambit as scumwatcher and bussed my entire scumteam to a victory. so yeah.

parama:

[wifom="OMG WIFOM"] i'm not scum[/wifom]

, so if there is a scum neighbor(which you keep implying) then it is xvart. seeing that i don't think xvart is scum, i have to say "i don't think there is a scum neighbor." it has nothing to do with what you think of xvart. the fact that xvart doesn't have the same mistake in his pm that i have in mine is a little odd and i hope for it to be explained in endgame, but imo, it is better to scumhunt in games as opposed to outside of them.

skins: thanks for the repost,

the case isn't terrible and i'm willing to hammer him.

the fact is,

if i am wrong about parama/bob, then zod could very well be scum

, my gut just says hes town whose not good at writing. but whatever. i think we're better off letting imaginality in here before we end the day. i still don't like des putting zod to L-1. parama and bob are in no real danger of being lynched today, so his excuse reads like, well, an excuse. of all the votes on zod, thats the one that looks lilke a bus to me. but whatever.

bob: please expand on your answer. what is it about parama that has you leaning town besides your night result?

I'm not going to say anything about this post. I'm just not going to. Look at the bolded stuffs. My eyes bleed.

first bolded part. yes, bob's actions make perfect sense if parama is his scumbuddy. you don't agree with that? scumtracker clearing his buddy? the two of them acting like they can clear each other pre-claim? sprry, but it read to me like they were both clearing each other and leaving the "role claim" up in the air. once bob claimed tracker, parama doesn't bat an eye. no "well that doesn't completely clear me, then", which is what a townie should admit. no, "oh, i thought you were cop." nothing.

Nope. You see if you happened to be in the majority of people that think bob was town (revelation: he was!!!!!!) then you don't go wifom speculating about who is the scum tracker and the like. And I just love how you outline exactly why his actions are scummy and associate him .

second bolded, no wifom, that was in response to parama accusing me of putting words in his mouth. i was explaining why i used the wording i did. you see, anyone can bold portions of a post and then say, "just read the bolded portions," and make a case. what you need to do, and what good townies do, is read the entire post. what you are doing is taking my statements out of context. if you read the rest of that paragraph you see exactly why i make the statement "i am not scum." that statement is only wifom when used in the context of "hey i made a case against you, defend yourself." and then you say "i'm not scum." thats wifom. using my knowledge of my alignment to explain why i said something, or why i think someone is misinterpreting something is not wifom.

ohhh gudy. I didn't think you go to the second bolded stuff. What response? I don't see no response? Mind showing us what that response was?
Ohh right you were the guy who didn't "do quote thingys". At part two of part two... It only takes a little bit of interpretation to see why "the case isn't terrible and i'm willing to hammer him." Fits with your previous posts saying that you think zodiark is not the best lynch, and this, "if i am wrong about parama/bob, then zod could very well be scum" go together.

Try this: Defend every single post you have made about bob, zodiark, and parama.

Also defend the bolded contridiction saying that you are now willing to hammer after nothing changed.

And then get lynched.

and that brings me to the third bolded part. for that i bolded a portion of your post. you claim "nothing changed. except:

1) you reposted your case, which i read and stated was not bad.

2)

. zodiark seems to be getting the noose and doing very little to stop his own hanging, so lets get some imaginality and then proceed."

zodiark was not defending himself.

so yeah, nothing changed.[/sarcasm]

Ohh, so your rock hard null read and your rock hard scum read go out the window and then you start contemplating hammering. Even though multiple times you have said zodiark=town/null/notscum and bob&parama are 100% fucking percent = scum.

Doesn't cut it. More don votes.

[/quote]

[CooLskins]

Due to catching up, not reading all the way through I found this quote (call it buddying if you want, but I really don't care):

It's not that I think there's one cum in the neighborhood due to that fallacy.
it's that I think there' one scum in the neighborhood because I have a strong scumread in the neighborhood <.<
Though neither neighbor being on the Zod wagon yesterday helps my theory anyways :/

This explains perfectly my opinion of the neighbor situation. I personally don't think xvart is scum, and I think don is scum. Thus there is one scum in the neighborhood.

@don 541, why the unvote. explain.

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

So that means that you lied.

If your case on Parama was totally based off of individual tells, then why did it change all of a sudden when bobsnox flipped town? And why is it that the

only

reason you give for Parama being town is totally based off of that fact?

Oh, and you were defending scum, whether he was flipped or not at that time is irrelavent because you knew who he was regardless.

-Bub

High five hydra buddy! I think you articulated what I was trying to say about don (especially in the bolded part)

well

.

But...

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for creating a crap case on now-confirmed town to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Seriously, why hasn't this slot been lynch yet?

You were doing so well until... Actually this is a good time for me to tell you guys that I agree with bub on the above. I just think that don is much more scummy and should be lynched. Fitz is my #2.

Don, let me tell you this. I could refute every single argument that you have made. I could point to your "case" on bob and show how you never quoted him, and how you never brought. However, I do not have the time to do so. Tomorrow I will.

Bub has told me that he has some thoughts. Specifically about having deflecting or something along those lines.

And this is a super scummy post by virtue of trying to get out from under suspicion before it builds any steam.

can you explain this one a bit more? i'm not really following what you're saying.

Basically it boils down to the question "why post believe you me that I can tear apart your case and show you how faulty it is but I don't have time to do so right now, so you'll have to wait until tomorrow. But just believe me that it is terrible." There is no town motivation to saying anything like that (and if there is I can't think of it) so the only thing is trying to squash it before it goes anywhere with the subtlety I can do this and I will (later).

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for

creating a crap case on now-confirmed town

to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Referring to my bolded emphasis I assume you are talking about me since fitz is voting me, but how am I confirmed town now?

Try reading where I said maybe tomorrow. And below you should be good enough to satisfy you.

Also my left mouse button has gone out. I have to press both left and right buttons at the same time to click. Its rather humorous...

[xvart]

That's a misrepresentation of our stance on zodiark. I personally had zodiark as a null read. Bub on the other hand thought that zodiark was scummy. He made it very clear (to me at least) that our vote should be on zodiark. I trusted his judgment and that was it. If you think that's scummy then go ahead and vote me.

It's not a misrepresentation at all. It's a accurate account of what actually happened. I absolutely cannot stand it when hydra heads post contradictory reads in game because doing so under any circumstances is scummy; however, I did understand that it is an unfortunate byproduct of being a schizophrenic hydra. The point that I am making is your contradictory reads is uniquely scum motivated, especially now that Zodiark has flipped scum.

One head came in and said "Basically all zodiark has done is vote for the person that hammered yesterday. And built up a small case on bob for swingy on and off of wagons. He hasn't generated that much content, but he has said anything that is overtly scummy", which is a pretty middle of the road thing to say, leaving the door open for saying "well I suppose those things I said earlier could be scummy so I'll go ahead and vote my buddy now." At the time of this post Zodiark had 2 votes.

Then, in the very next post, bobnox calls your slot scum for that post, and two posts later the other head comes in and says "woah I totally disagree and Zodiark is obvscum." That head unilaterally changes your stance on Zodiark without even suggesting that "I am in disagreement, I need to talk about this with my other head because he's not seeing what I see" like I would think a town hydra would. The 180 turn around is inherently scum motivated and the lack of interest in convincing the other head looks like a cover up for such a soft read on a buddy.

If you think that's scummy then go ahead and vote me.

Thanks for your permission but I am already voting you.

I'm going to try to respond kindly to this next part see as it is completely full of shit and made up. A lesser man would vote your ass for even thinking about pulling this card.

1

So I'm scum because I didn't have enough time to refute don's posts even though I explicitly stated that I would.

2

And I'm non committal even though I have been avidly trying to get don lynched for over 2 days now?

³

This is the definition of bullshit reasons. Stop chainsaw defing your neighbor that you yourself don't know his alignment.

⁴

Not only are you missing my point but you are inaccurately assigning motives to my commentary.

1

This sentence is extremely strange. If anyone else would have voted me because of what I said does that make what I said :

• Scummy;
  
• Not scummy but people might inadvertently think it is scummy; or,
  
• Something else?

Really, though, why aren't you voting me if everyone else would be because saying you're a bigger person because you aren't voting for me doesn't really say much about you being town.

2

Your refutation of don's points came almost 36 hours after you lambasted don. What was the point of coming in to the thread and

only

saying "your case is terrible and I'll destroy every part of it later. I'm just too busy now"? I can see town saying "I'll respond to those points when I have more time" or anything else, but the level of emotion in your post indicates that there is some other motivation.

3

This is debatable, but is entirely beside the point. While you are pretty adamant about getting don lynched you do waffle enough when you posted about the pm error stuff. Again, I don't see the relevance of your relationship with don to your scummy behavior.

4

Explain to me the "chainsaw defense" of my neighbor and how me not knowing his alignment has anything to do with your comment. I'm not defending don and the person you made your comment to has no bearing on my commentary on your posting. My concerns were unique to what you said and not to whom you said it.

Finally, I don't really want this to be misconstrued as the crux of the argument in favor of you being scum. It is really only a sidepoint and

the basis of you being scum is your connection/contradiction/backpedaling under pressure with regard to flipped scum Zodiark.

Plus, I still want to know how I am confirmed town.

[Humble Poirot]

* I fixed a votecount #18 mistake that had don_johnson voting deselby when he had already unvoted. - HP

[CooLskins]

I will be getting to xvarts post shortly.

[havingfitz]

I will be getting to xvarts post shortly.

Feel free to address my recent comments to you as well.

[CooLskins]

That's a misrepresentation of our stance on zodiark. I personally had zodiark as a null read. Bub on the other hand thought that zodiark was scummy. He made it very clear (to me at least) that our vote should be on zodiark. I trusted his judgment and that was it. If you think that's scummy then go ahead and vote me.

It's not a misrepresentation at all. It's a accurate account of what actually happened. I absolutely cannot stand it when hydra heads post contradictory reads in game because doing so under any circumstances is scummy; however, I did understand that it is an unfortunate byproduct of being a schizophrenic hydra. The point that I am making is your contradictory reads is uniquely scum motivated, especially now that Zodiark has flipped scum.

One head came in and said "Basically all zodiark has done is vote for the person that hammered yesterday. And built up a small case on bob for swingy on and off of wagons. He hasn't generated that much content, but he has said anything that is overtly scummy", which is a pretty middle of the road thing to say, leaving the door open for saying "well I suppose those things I said earlier could be scummy so I'll go ahead and vote my buddy now." At the time of this post Zodiark had 2 votes.

Again, you seem to not understand English here. I personally (CooLDoG) did not find zodiark scummy. Bub on the other hand (meaning that he differs in opinion fyi) thought that zodiark was scummy and was worth a lynch. Sense I didn't have a strong town read on him I went along with it.
Read next fucking time.

Then, in the very next post, bobnox calls your slot scum for that post, and two posts later the other head comes in and says "woah I totally disagree and Zodiark is obvscum." That head unilaterally changes your stance on Zodiark without even suggesting that "I am in disagreement, I need to talk about this with my other head because he's not seeing what I see" like I would think a town hydra would. The 180 turn around is inherently scum motivated and the lack of interest in convincing the other head looks like a cover up for such a soft read on a buddy.

We did talk about it. I still had a null read on him. Yet bub was very strongly opinionated about zodiark being scum for the contradiction that he made before. I trusted his opinion and went ahead with the vote. You should really wait for bub to repond to this.

If you think that's scummy then go ahead and vote me.

Thanks for your permission but I am already voting you.

Your welcome

I'm going to try to respond kindly to this next part see as it is completely full of shit and made up. A lesser man would vote your ass for even thinking about pulling this card.

1

So I'm scum because I didn't have enough time to refute don's posts even though I explicitly stated that I would.

2

And I'm non committal even though I have been avidly trying to get don lynched for over 2 days now?

³

This is the definition of bullshit reasons. Stop chainsaw defing your neighbor that you yourself don't know his alignment.

⁴

Not only are you missing my point but you are inaccurately assigning motives to my commentary.

1

This sentence is extremely strange. If anyone else would have voted me because of what I said does that make what I said :

• Scummy;
  
• Not scummy but people might inadvertently think it is scummy; or,
  
• Something else?

Really, though, why aren't you voting me if everyone else would be because saying you're a bigger person because you aren't voting for me doesn't really say much about you being town.

2

Your refutation of don's points came almost 36 hours after you lambasted don. What was the point of coming in to the thread and

only

saying "your case is terrible and I'll destroy every part of it later. I'm just too busy now"? I can see town saying "I'll respond to those points when I have more time" or anything else, but the level of emotion in your post indicates that there is some other motivation.

3

This is debatable, but is entirely beside the point. While you are pretty adamant about getting don lynched you do waffle enough when you posted about the pm error stuff. Again, I don't see the relevance of your relationship with don to your scummy behavior.

4

Explain to me the "chainsaw defense" of my neighbor and how me not knowing his alignment has anything to do with your comment. I'm not defending don and the person you made your comment to has no bearing on my commentary on your posting. My concerns were unique to what you said and not to whom you said it.


Finally, I don't really want this to be misconstrued as the crux of the argument in favor of you being scum. It is really only a sidepoint and

the basis of you being scum is your connection/contradiction/backpedaling under pressure with regard to flipped scum Zodiark.

Plus, I still want to know how I am confirmed town.

1)Hyperbole do you speak it? It was really just a rage joke. I swear officer I was not smoking that pot while driving, I swear.
2) So because I have a life, and because I do not have infinte amount of time, I must be scum. Perfect lets lynch don for not posting all of d1 and d2. Ohh wait, you are defending him... So we can't
3)I do not comprehend this pm stuff. I personally don't like to speculate if someone is telling to truth in pm communication while scum unting. I personally think that don is not telling the truth, but that does not belong in my assessment of don. But I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, Could you re-word it?
4)Attacking someones attacker out of the blue. Also you are defending don's actions... However, I think you are town. Fitz/don are the last two scum. Don dies today period.

final:
Ask bub this question. All that I can say was that at the time of zodiark's lynch I had a null to slightly scummy (as some of his posts under pressure made me lean towards scum). I do know that bub had a very very strong read on zodiark. That is why I went along with the vote.

Plus: You are not confirmed town. Its just hat I personally think that you are a townie. I think you have a scum neighbor though...

@fitz, I think most of that is directed at bub, but I'll get to it.

[CooLskins]

Fitz, all of that is directed to bub. I will let him take it. He will be able to answer to you better.

~CooLDoG

[don_johnson]

Now lets get on to don's shit posting:

ad hom

.

So you were/are still an avid pusher of bob=scum even though you never bothered to make a case on him? And you being confused (apparently independent of his scumminess) by his play apparently warrants a vote. Sounds nice.

not sure what you mean here. i already explained my thoughts. i never made a case on bob other than agreeing with points xvart made,

and

pointing out that i found the parama/bob interaction wierd. when was i an "avid" pusher of bobscum? thats

misrep

.

What case on bob? Link me I really want to see this. I was more refering to the part above where he was wifom setup speculating. Also, read zod's posts. He wasn't doing nothing.

zod was ineffectively defending himself, and towards the end he just seemed to be lurking. i already referenced several posts xvart made. its funny how you quote my posts, but don't seem to be reading them. maybe you would prefer i make a quote wall out of posts 474, 480, 491? i thought if i gave you the post numbers then you could go and read the posts instead of flooding the thread with giant walls of repetitive text.

omission

.

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start.

the bob parama connection is odd to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier. absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob. bob didn't mind, i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, why isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop? excuse me tracker. so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill. of course, scum didn't know town had a tracker, right? this reads to me more like scum running fake claim than town being honest. details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious. bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?" well, if parama is your scum buddy and you are mafia tracker, then you have every incentive to. if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming, but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you." but he doesn't. he just keeps going along with it. i don't know. something about this situation just stinks and bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

anyhoo, i'm willing to start with parama to test the theory, in case bob is town. also, parama could be scum buddying town, so his lynch is a much better bet.

Bullshit "case" with nice vailed soft omgus you are catching on sorta thing. Also, not italics.

ok. so earlier you say "you didn't even post a case". now, you call it "bullshit"? how is it bullshit" what about this post is "bullshit"? imo, this post is a very coherent post which explains my suspicions in a clear and concise manner. i'm calling bob/parama out on their sketchy play and pointing out that bob's "we prolly don't have a cop" statement is seriously anti-town. so yeah. just quoting something and saying "bullshit" is poor posting. explain yourself. parama was not voting me and his suspicion of me has nothing to do with this post. "omgus" is you flinging shit against me hoping it will stick. i have already stated i think parama is town and i'll explain why a bit later. hint: its not because of his shit ass posting.

Keep in mind that when I compile these catch-up posts I read from the last place that I posted and then work forward. So yeah I did make a contradiction, but top earlier then bottom... Now to more meaty stuff in this section of your post...
Your case is bullshit because it never quotes any of the two (parama and bob) you are talking about. Without a quote we have no reference to what we are talking about, you could (and in some cases probably are) misrepresenting them at some point. We can't even be sure that they said the things that you say they are saying. It also doesn't help that the whole top paragraph is speculative/wifom which contributes little to nothing to your apparent bob suspicion (ohh, you mean the guy who flipped town tracker? Oh yeah him.).

oh. i see. you want me to quote the thread to point out the bob/parama connection? well. ok. i thought it was obvious, but since you can't wrasp your head around it, here are the posts:

Parama - I think Coolskins and deselby are buddies. Do you see why? I'll explain but I want tonsee if it jumps out to anyome else like it did to me.

Parama's hrezs vote threw me off but I don't think he's scum.

He's not today's lynch

.

Again,

Parama is not today's lynch

.

There is a reason I seem like a buddy with Parama, btw. He is not today's lynch and neither am I.

SHHHH! I told you, I warned you about stares man! They're staring at us! Why did you let them in on our scumbuddy secret?

don if I gave you any more hints it'd be anti-town posting. just accept that bob is town and move on with your life.

so yeah. i thought everyone noticed this. apparently not.

Where people are making scummy posts? I mean its only the most basic thing you could ever do? Also you are retroactively changing your opinion of something in the second (?) post that you quoted. And what you say is not always what you actually think. I can say that Parama is playing the best town game ever. Its what I said I think, but is it true? Hell no. That's kinda the point at looking at your posts to find your true intention/motivation/stance. And not quoting people leads to misrepresentation, in factual statements, and it shows a profound laziness (which shows you not caring about who gets lynched, unless that person happens to be zodiark or one of your other scum buds).

i don't get what you are saying here. i have been pointing out what i have found scummy. sometimes posts aren't scummy. sometimesd its the players voting pattern. sometimes its one simple move they make that seems like it has scum motivation. again: if you want quotes, you will need to be specific. then i can get you quotes. if you don't know what you're looking for, i can't help you.

That's it. No more. So not only do you think that an obv townie (bob) is scum. But you also think that someone "associated with him" is scum over that townie. You absolutly never outlined why, and now we defend a flipped scum. Okay.

zod hadn't flipped yet. ands again, you seem to be misinterpreting my suspicions. i clearly stated why i felt parama was scummy over bob. i also clearly stated why i thought bob was scummy(even if i simply agreed with xvarts posting and didn't post my own thoughts as eloquently.)

Misunderstands point. Should I explain it to you? Lets.
It just so happens that your most powerful scum read (bob) was considered by the rest of the town to be very townie. He just happened to flip town. Your second most powerful scum read is totally based off of bob being scum (you will say otherwise, but it is). Then apparently one of your most powerful town read happened to get lynched (read: a majority of people thought he was scum). And you defended him. Understand now?[/quote]

bob was not "my most powerful scum read".

misrep

. my other scum read(parama) was not based off of bob being scum.

misrep

. zodiark was never "one of my most powerful town reads."

misrep

. see what you did there? you completely ignored the post you quoted and then made up shit to fit your case. please quote a post that explains the bob/parama connection where my parama scum read is based off of bobscum. hint: you can't find it. i speculated on the idea of them being a scumpair, but you are misrepping the suspicion.

Ohh, so your rock hard null read and your rock hard scum read go out the window and then you start contemplating hammering. Even though multiple times you have said zodiark=town/null/notscum and bob&parama are 100% fucking percent = scum.

Doesn't cut it. More don votes.

never had bob/parama at 100%. if you find a quote where i used the term 100%, then i will self vote.

misrep

. reads didn't go "out the window." they moved along a perfectly logical line of thought. going from thinking "zod might be town" to "zod is not standing up for himself

at all

and so might be scum," actually makes sense.

@don 541, why the unvote. explain.

the vote isn't doing anything. i have much more i want to discuss. i still have to respond to des' latest posting i think.

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

So that means that you lied.

If your case on Parama was totally based off of individual tells, then why did it change all of a sudden when bobsnox flipped town? And why is it that the only reason you give for Parama being town is totally based off of that fact?

Oh, and you were defending scum, whether he was flipped or not at that time is irrelavent because you knew who he was regardless.

-Bub

High five hydra buddy! I think you articulated what I was trying to say about don (especially in the bolded part) well.

not only is this not articulated well, but it is an entire misrep of my position, packed with the ommission of the effects of the zodiark flip. well done.

vote: coolskins

[xvart]

Again, you seem to not understand English here. I personally (CooLDoG) did not find zodiark scummy. Bub on the other hand (meaning that he differs in opinion fyi) thought that zodiark was scummy and was worth a lynch. Sense I didn't have a strong town read on him I went along with it.
Read next fucking time.

Oh no. I understand perfectly what you are saying: that your player slot made a scummy post fence sitting on scum Zodiark's alignment when it only had two votes. Then, your player slot blatantly contradicted itself after receiving pressure because of that scummy post. And frankly, I don't care what head thinks what. You are a single player slot and the convenience and timing of the contradiction in light of Zodiark's scum flip is damning to say the least.

I know it is hard for scum to think about things in an objective and unbiased light (especially when they are the focal point), but honestly, if one player said "oh I think Player X is town/null despite the case presented", then Player Y comes in and says "that is a scummy post", then the player comes back and says "oh yeah, vote: Player X" you don't find that the least bit scummy? I understand schizophrenic hydras having contradictory reads but the way to parse out whether or not they are scum or just a poor playing town hydra is motive and intent. The timing of your contradiction is incredibly scummy, and I'm not exactly going to trust your word on Bub having a scum read on Zodiark since

there had been no posts by your player slot regarding Zodiark being scummy prior to the contradiction

to substantiate this claim.

We did talk about it. I still had a null read on him. Yet bub was very strongly opinionated about zodiark being scum for the contradiction that he made before. I trusted his opinion and went ahead with the vote. You should really wait for bub to repond to this.

When did you discuss it amongst your heads? Before your post or after your post and before Bubs' post?

I'm just going to rescind the thing about your posting about don, because it isn't going to get us anywhere just arguing semantics, intention, and motive behind someone not having time to post and the message they conveyed. Like I said, you aren't scum because of that post, it was, in my opinion, a scummy post coming from scum and isn't needed to lynch you.

Plus: You are not confirmed town.

If I am not confirmed town then what is the basis for your attack on Fitz making a case on me?

[imaginality]

You're getting the short and sweet version of my reads here. Too much wall-to-wall going on.

Here are my reads:

Towniest

xvart - is genuinely scum-hunting, and extra points because at least one neighbour must be town and she's more likely
deselby - consistently making sense to me, one of those players I 'get'
--
don_johnson - some concerns here, but iso50 is a good-ish reason for thinking him not scum: if he did express his thoughts of Parama+bob in the QT N2, them surviving the night does point to him (and xvart) being town. Maybe smart scum, but more likely town.
CooLskins - xvart is maybe making a bit much of the read-switching, but something nags at me with them
--
Parama - he seemed to overplay his tracker-clearedness, the pattern of leading D1 and slacking later days is scummy, and seems to get jumpy in response to pressure on him
havingfitz - Kondi's L-1 vote on Beck, Antihero's vote switch from Hrezs to Celeboki (iso1-iso4) seems like scum switching in response to town pressure, 367 seems like he knows Hrezs will flip town, generally less sense of actually scumhunting. And I think if havingfitz really is town scum would have tried to push a mislynch on him by now.

Scummiest

Vote: havingfitz

[Humble Poirot]

Those in danger of being exposed #19:

don_johnson (2)

- Parama, CooLskins,

xvart (1)

- havingfitz,

havingfitz (1)

- imaginality,

CooLskins (2)

- xvart, don_johnson,

Not Voting (1)

- deselby,

With 7 Alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[havingfitz]

Here are my reads:

Towniest

xvart - is genuinely scum-hunting, and extra points because at least one neighbour must be town and she's more likely
<sip>
havingfitz - Kondi's L-1 vote on Beck, Antihero's vote switch from Hrezs to Celeboki (iso1-iso4) seems like scum switching in response to town pressure, 367 seems like he knows Hrezs will flip town, generally less sense of actually scumhunting. And I think if havingfitz really is town scum would have tried to push a mislynch on him by now.

Scummiest

Vote: havingfitz

imag...what part of xvart's "genuine" scum-hunting do you like? Considering he has been on both mislynches and was off the popular Zodiark wagon (ie. he's got it wrong [or right if I am correct] all three votes).

Re: kondi's L-1 vote...is it more suspect than whoever placed the L-1 vote on Hrez or whoever placed the D1 or D2 hammers? Why is kondi's L-1 suspect?

As for Antihero....his switch off Hrez IMO appears to be based on uncertainty of Hrez' alignment...which Anti would have had not idea of. Did you happen to look at Anti's interactions with Zodiark? It could just as easily be called bussing (minus the vote) but I do not see them being the same alignment (helped of course by the fact I know they aren't).

tl:dr;

Your reads are pretty crappy unless you are scum.

[don_johnson]

des: in short, i'm saying your vote post reads as though you are "white knighting" bob and parama. they were the "wagons building elsehwere" that you used as justification to put zod to L-1. what i am saying is that bob/parama were in no real danger of being lynched. you just made it seem that way with the way you chose your words. both wagons hads some support, but the support was not interchangeable, meaning that neither wagon had enough support to carry a lynch. the zod wagon, however, was seeming inevitable at that point imo. so yeah, a perfect time to bus, and if parama is town, it was a great chance for you to "save" two townies and lynch scum. but whatever, you need to post a bit more and i need to reread a bit more. let me know if i'm not making sense.

[deselby]

@ don – Ok, I can see your bussing point being at least plausible. You say that I used other wagons to justify my vote, so to bring attention to my “bussing” I think? Well, I probably didn’t think the zod lynch was as inevitable as you did, and I should say that not everyone thought parama was town anyway. Also, the other wagons were more of a “prompt” rather than justification, the latter being zod’s scummy posting, though I can certainly see how my post could lead you to question it.

@don, I am concerned about your “let’s not lynch neighbours” proposal. As I said earlier, it only makes any sense if you are town, kind of a pointless in this game. It seems that you were just trying to frighten town into not lynching a neighbour (which would probably be you). For me it is the scummiest post of D4 so far.

As for the coolskins/don thing, the megaposts made my feeble mind ache and I had to have a lie down. But I think don’s theory was messy, 2 theories kind of mashed together. And today don thinks that his statistical improbability is enough to not only cancel his vote and theory of D3, but to actually think parama is town. Bit weird.

RE coolskins/xvart to-and-fro, "it's not scummy posting, it sucks, but because we are a hydra!!" Could be either imo.
@cooldog - not sure what you are getting at here:

Before I fully catch up I wanted to say that the scum killing bob was a big mistake. Whoever the scum were they really misjudged that kill. They had two to three people saying that for some reason bob was scum, when it was obvious that he was town. I'm going to look back and see who pushed the bob wagon.

Re: kondi's L-1 vote...is it more suspect than whoever placed the L-1 vote on Hrez or whoever placed the D1 or D2 hammers? Why is kondi's L-1 suspect?

Yes, as it was done without even an attempt at reasoning.
@fitz- are there any reasons, besides voting, why you believe xvart to be scum?

[deselby]

So my current reads are:

towniest - xvart

wary of - coolskins
parama - struggled the whole game to get a read. some good posting and some rubbish, I guess this is his style (possibly to make it difficult to read him??). Nothing overtly scummy at this stage imo, but, well, wary.
imag- both HC and imag's posting has been ok, but there has not been much of either.

lynchables atm - fitz and don. My vote, as things stand, will be on one of these, i will do another read before voting, maybe later today.

Also fizt, what don't you like about imag's reads (apart from the obvious)? What are yours?

[CooLskins]

@dese;by. I think the scum could have gotten bobsnox lynched. I think too m any stupid townies would have followed onto the bobsnox wagon. So now I have two mega posts to do? Getting to the first one...

[CooLskins]

Now lets get on to don's shit posting:

ad hom

.

And your point is?

So you were/are still an avid pusher of bob=scum even though you never bothered to make a case on him? And you being confused (apparently independent of his scumminess) by his play apparently warrants a vote. Sounds nice.

not sure what you mean here. i already explained my thoughts. i never made a case on bob other than agreeing with points xvart made,

and

pointing out that i found the parama/bob interaction wierd. when was i an "avid" pusher of bobscum? thats

misrep

.

^ohh yeah you were after bob in d2/d3 for a long time. Your really thought you could have got him lynched. I wonder why you killed him at night though. And You said that your vote on bob was because it
[quote="donjohnson #493]This isnt fitting together at all.[/quote]
And just to say. In your big bob case thing. You unvoted bob and then voted for parama. This isn't fitting together. Don could be voting for town people on purpose.

[qutoe="don"]

What case on bob? Link me I really want to see this. I was more refering to the part above where he was wifom setup speculating. Also, read zod's posts. He wasn't doing nothing.

zod was ineffectively defending himself, and towards the end he just seemed to be lurking. i already referenced several posts xvart made. its funny how you quote my posts, but don't seem to be reading them. maybe you would prefer i make a quote wall out of posts 474, 480, 491? i thought if i gave you the post numbers then you could go and read the posts instead of flooding the thread with giant walls of repetitive text.

omission

.[/quote]
^So lets try another one of your flip flops. Post numbers 493, and 499. What changed in bob that you unvoted him there?
On point, So even though in post number 483,

Skins/parama/bob would not surprise me.

gain: parama stated bob was clear very early in game. Why? According to bob, parama has no night action, so he could not have investigated him. So why was parama confirming bob?

After this the only post that zodiark makes is the post to hammer himself. What changed? What cahnged between that half page that made you think zodiark was scum over your top two scum reads.

Also this:

also, regarding zod's "contradiction", i don't find anything wrong with changing one's mind. it happens all the time. if the posts were within a couple hours of each other with no posting in between(were they?) then it may be construed as scum backtrack, but i came out of the gate thinking blok was scum for his hammer but after rethinking it i changed my mind. so whatever. i think the zodiark case is a mountain out of a mole hill.

parama: i don't think there is a scum neighbor. xvart is posting pretty protown.

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start.

the bob parama connection is odd to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier. absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob. bob didn't mind, i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, why isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop? excuse me tracker. so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed. parama is going along with it without question. odd.

now bob claims to have trakced his biggest scumread last night whom he has also stated would not be the player on the scum team to be sent to perform the kill. of course, scum didn't know town had a tracker, right? this reads to me more like scum running fake claim than town being honest. details have not come out clean. thats the thing about fake claims, its hard to get everything to fit. the fact that this seems so jumbled it what makes me suspicious. bobs defense is, "well why would i protect parama?" well, if parama is your scum buddy and you are mafia tracker, then you have every incentive to. if parama is town, he should at least have been suspicious of you at some point. but he wasn't. in fact, he accepted your soft claim without question. maybe he even claims to have known which power role you were claiming, but common sense says, "you clear parama, parama has to assume you are cop, you claim tracker, parama should at least question you." but he doesn't. he just keeps going along with it. i don't know. something about this situation just stinks and bob is now saying "well keep me alive for a couple days, we probably don't have a cop." baiting out town power is not good form my friend.

anyhoo, i'm willing to start with parama to test the theory, in case bob is town. also, parama could be scum buddying town, so his lynch is a much better bet.

Bullshit "case" with nice vailed soft omgus you are catching on sorta thing. Also, not italics.

ok. so earlier you say "you didn't even post a case". now, you call it "bullshit"? how is it bullshit" what about this post is "bullshit"? imo, this post is a very coherent post which explains my suspicions in a clear and concise manner. i'm calling bob/parama out on their sketchy play and pointing out that bob's "we prolly don't have a cop" statement is seriously anti-town. so yeah. just quoting something and saying "bullshit" is poor posting. explain yourself. parama was not voting me and his suspicion of me has nothing to do with this post. "omgus" is you flinging shit against me hoping it will stick. i have already stated i think parama is town and i'll explain why a bit later. hint: its not because of his shit ass posting.

Keep in mind that when I compile these catch-up posts I read from the last place that I posted and then work forward. So yeah I did make a contradiction, but top earlier then bottom... Now to more meaty stuff in this section of your post...
Your case is bullshit because it never quotes any of the two (parama and bob) you are talking about. Without a quote we have no reference to what we are talking about, you could (and in some cases probably are) misrepresenting them at some point. We can't even be sure that they said the things that you say they are saying. It also doesn't help that the whole top paragraph is speculative/wifom which contributes little to nothing to your apparent bob suspicion (ohh, you mean the guy who flipped town tracker? Oh yeah him.).

oh. i see. you want me to quote the thread to point out the bob/parama connection? well. ok. i thought it was obvious, but since you can't wrasp your head around it, here are the posts:

YES! SHOW US WHERE PEOPLE SAID THAT! Now I can actually wiegh your reads of of mine. We can now put the whole you not building a case off of bob thing to rest and concentrate on you defending known scum pretty hard. As well you rapidly turning around when said scum was about to get lynched.

Parama - I think Coolskins and deselby are buddies. Do you see why? I'll explain but I want tonsee if it jumps out to anyome else like it did to me.

Parama's hrezs vote threw me off but I don't think he's scum.

He's not today's lynch

.

Again,

Parama is not today's lynch

.

There is a reason I seem like a buddy with Parama, btw. He is not today's lynch and neither am I.

SHHHH! I told you, I warned you about stares man! They're staring at us! Why did you let them in on our scumbuddy secret?

don if I gave you any more hints it'd be anti-town posting. just accept that bob is town and move on with your life.

so yeah. i thought everyone noticed this. apparently not.

You could see a connection here. However, I don't think it is as bad as you think. But hay, it could have been worth a vote in d2.

[quote"don"]

Where people are making scummy posts? I mean its only the most basic thing you could ever do? Also you are retroactively changing your opinion of something in the second (?) post that you quoted. And what you say is not always what you actually think. I can say that Parama is playing the best town game ever. Its what I said I think, but is it true? Hell no. That's kinda the point at looking at your posts to find your true intention/motivation/stance. And not quoting people leads to misrepresentation, in factual statements, and it shows a profound laziness (which shows you not caring about who gets lynched, unless that person happens to be zodiark or one of your other scum buds).

i don't get what you are saying here. i have been pointing out what i have found scummy. sometimes posts aren't scummy. sometimesd its the players voting pattern. sometimes its one simple move they make that seems like it has scum motivation. again: if you want quotes, you will need to be specific. then i can get you quotes. if you don't know what you're looking for, i can't help you. [/quote]
just more harping about how you can misrep people by not quoting posts. Again, this has been solved by the above post by you.

[qutoe="don"]

That's it. No more. So not only do you think that an obv townie (bob) is scum. But you also think that someone "associated with him" is scum over that townie. You absolutly never outlined why, and now we defend a flipped scum. Okay.

zod hadn't flipped yet. ands again, you seem to be misinterpreting my suspicions. i clearly stated why i felt parama was scummy over bob. i also clearly stated why i thought bob was scummy(even if i simply agreed with xvarts posting and didn't post my own thoughts as eloquently.)

Misunderstands point. Should I explain it to you? Lets.
It just so happens that your most powerful scum read (bob) was considered by the rest of the town to be very townie. He just happened to flip town. Your second most powerful scum read is totally based off of bob being scum (you will say otherwise, but it is). Then apparently one of your most powerful town read happened to get lynched (read: a majority of people thought he was scum). And you defended him. Understand now?[/quote]

bob was not "my most powerful scum read".

misrep

. my other scum read(parama) was not based off of bob being scum.

misrep

. zodiark was never "one of my most powerful town reads."

misrep

. see what you did there? you completely ignored the post you quoted and then made up shit to fit your case. please quote a post that explains the bob/parama connection where my parama scum read is based off of bobscum. hint: you can't find it. i speculated on the idea of them being a scumpair, but you are misrepping the suspicion.[/quote]
I think that other people will be able to judge from this post that you made.

Skins/parama/bob would not surprise me.

gain: parama stated bob was clear very early in game. Why? According to bob, parama has no night action, so he could not have investigated him. So why was parama confirming bob?

And your very next post:

unvote, vote bobsnox

This isnt fitting together at all. I could see bob/parama bussing zodiark possibly, buy xvart makes good points. Bob has not been protown.

And you dfenitly thought that parama and bob were buddies. Yout htought that parama was scum by association with bobsnox. Just read some of the stuff above that you quoted, and this:

unvote, vote parama

this seems like a safer way to start. the

bob parama connection is odd

to say the least. imo, tracker is a role given to scum as often as it is a role given to town. the fact that parama seems to be going along with the claim is scummier than bob's play

. parama claims to have picked up on the claim earlier.

[edit: in reference to bob] absolutely noone else did(except me, however, to me it read as though parama was claiming power and clearing bob.

bob didn't mind,

i even tossed this idea around in the neighbor qt and xvart was like "whatcu talkin bout?" it was very subtle. so if bob was clearing parama, w

hy isn't parama the least bit suspicious now when bob is claiming watcher instead of cop?

excuse me tracker.

so we all know that tracker doesn't "clear" someone of scum alignment, yet bob is acting like his clear of parama is guaranteed.

parama is going along with it without question.

odd.

Actually I think Bob is mentioned in that post more then parama, but what ever. And Now are you still willing to lynch parma?

Ohh, so your rock hard null read and your rock hard scum read go out the window and then you start contemplating hammering. Even though multiple times you have said zodiark=town/null/notscum and bob&parama are 100% fucking percent = scum.

Doesn't cut it. More don votes.

never had bob/parama at 100%. if you find a quote where i used the term 100%, then i will self vote.

misrep

. reads didn't go "out the window." they moved along a perfectly logical line of thought. going from thinking "zod might be town" to "zod is not standing up for himself

at all

and so might be scum," actually makes sense.

Come on. It is obvious that your two biggest scum reads were bob/parama. DO I have to quote ever post that you made about them? You were willing to lynch both of them weren't you. Almost every single one of your d3 posts are about bob and parama being scum together. Just look at your own iso. Don't tell me that you weren't convinced of them being

town

scum.

@don 541, why the unvote. explain.

the vote isn't doing anything. i have much more i want to discuss. i still have to respond to des' latest posting i think.

'fraid of a quick lynch?

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

So that means that you lied.

If your case on Parama was totally based off of individual tells, then why did it change all of a sudden when bobsnox flipped town? And why is it that the only reason you give for Parama being town is totally based off of that fact?

Oh, and you were defending scum, whether he was flipped or not at that time is irrelavent because you knew who he was regardless.

-Bub

High five hydra buddy! I think you articulated what I was trying to say about don (especially in the bolded part) well.

not only is this not articulated well, but it is an entire misrep of my position, packed with the ommission of the effects of the zodiark flip. well done.

vote: coolskins

[/quote]
I'll post about this too even though it is directed at bubers.

Actually it isn't. Why aren't you voting for parama now? He was clearly your second scum read. Don't tell me he wasn't. Also omgus for what its worth .