Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[DarkClaymore]

I see no conclusive evidence that whilst is scum, and you flipping town won't change that.

Good luck finding a conclusive evidence for someone being scum. I'd really like to see you doing it. Maybe it'll change my way of thinking.

[Honest Abel]

Maybe "conclusive" and "evidence" are strong words, but any information we can glean from your lynchbait tactic will be useless. It will not be as good as the information that good ol' scumhunting reveals.

[DarkClaymore]

Maybe "conclusive" and "evidence" are strong words, but any information we can glean from your lynchbait tactic will be useless. It will not be as good as the information that good ol' scumhunting reveals.

I disagree. But maybe it's because I'm a poor scumhunter.
Well, I hope I'll be proven wrong. Until then, I'll keep considering lynchbait analysis by superior to "reads". Because that's the only thing that ever worked for me.

[Bricktoes]

whilst

whilst has been playing the people pleaser. Despite the criticism BBmolla and I exchanged about our questions, whilst continually agreed with both of us about everything until post #50, in which he disagreed with both of us.

whilst

All I can say is that you did and you are still doing it. Pleasing both sides. Here you do it again by calling my theory "plausible". Maybe you really think so, and maybe you are scum. Since I have no better ideas atm - I'm willing to go with the latter.

why is whilst more scummy than me?

He did something that appeared like indirectly defending me while arguing with Abel.

[DarkClaymore]

whilst

whilst has been playing the people pleaser. Despite the criticism BBmolla and I exchanged about our questions, whilst continually agreed with both of us about everything until post #50, in which he disagreed with both of us.

whilst

All I can say is that you did and you are still doing it. Pleasing both sides. Here you do it again by calling my theory "plausible". Maybe you really think so, and maybe you are scum. Since I have no better ideas atm - I'm willing to go with the latter.

why is whilst more scummy than me?

He did something that appeared like indirectly defending me while arguing with Abel.

So you say it was all to please both you and me?
That's just going too far.
He can't just come and say he really suspects me and then, when I really become suspicious to ALL of you, he suddenly says "nah, I have nothing on you". Where did the previous reasons go to? What about the fact I created many new ones?

You just call that pleasing? I think that's going beyond it. Far beyond.

[Bricktoes]

Appearing scummy will most likely not make me a night kill target, thus keeping me alive longer in case I manage to avoid lynch. Of course, you can claim that in a way it harms the town as I become a suspect and possibly draw attention away from the real scum, but I find it very interesting to see the reactions of people when it comes to lynching a player who plays like this. Scum tend to slip in such situations.

Scum tend to slip away like this a lot. Playing the "somewhat suspected" role which can be used as a reason to explain why the player wasn't night killed, while in the same time not being suspected enough to get lynched. A very simple and efficient scum strategy.

re: surviving

[Honest Abel]

lol @ #405. That's great.

I do not understand the point of #403, sadly.

[Bricktoes]

I don't feel too confident as town or even I would have been mafia.

Well, obviously I'd say that Abel working so hard to make me look like scum is heading in the wrong direction since I'm town.

Of course, you can claim that in a way it harms the town as I become a suspect and possibly draw attention away from the real scum

*

You can lynch me if you want. ... it'll still be a townie lynch

*

How I hate when people say this... Well YEAH? I'm also town. What do you have to say about this? Huh? HUH?

[Honest Abel]

All things considered, I'm keeping my vote on DC. It will be up to the people who haven't talked as much to take the next step here. I'm am growing weary. IAI and NS need a turn.

[Honest Abel]

I'm am made a typo.

[Bricktoes]

So you say it was all to please both you and me?
That's just going too far.
He can't just come and say he really suspects me and then, when I really become suspicious to ALL of you, he suddenly says "nah, I have nothing on you". Where did the previous reasons go to? What about the fact I created many new ones?

You just call that pleasing? I think that's going beyond it. Far beyond.

Not even my words, dude. Point is, his playstyle is noted. And we already saw what he's pulling on you when his reasons for calling me scum were "lol i can't think ahead."

[Nobody Special]

Stream-of-consciousness posting GO:

Nobody Special

Abel, who do you want to see lynched at the conclusion of Day 2?

Assume that Nothing Special isn't going to post anytime soon.

Oh, and please: My name is

Nobody

Special.

I'm rather finicky about that.

My bad, sorry dude. Thanks for catching up with the game! In another post you stated you had reached page 10. Do you have anything to add about N1's victim?

The fact that Scumhunter was an SE leads me to believe that both scum are newbies (i.e., not me, not IAI). I'm not putting a LOT of stock in that, because IAI is acting a bit non-town, but it's just an impression. Although, (hello, WIFOM!) IAI may have decided that Wickedest was just scummy enough to leave alive, and gotten rid of the other SE. (Note to self: Look at HA's history. Why not an SE?)

I completely disagree that NS is being overly protown. He's hardly done anything yet. Still chilling in my null box.

The thing that struck me over and over again about D2 DC is that he admitted he was being lynchbait early on and then just kept being scummy. He didn't do anything active until #380 that I remember. He's just been sitting back and defending himself for being purposely scummy.

I still have to think about it, but maybe I can't picture town doing that at all.

Can you picture it or can you not picture it? Will you let us know when your Potential Picturing has determined? That said, I can see NewbTown doing that. (Especially New-to-MS!Town.)

These two posts raise my eyebrows. Potentially nervous newbscum trying to keep the game together? Hmm.

Just some thinking-out-loud here:

If scum=IAI/whilst, then DC is really and truly cluelessly being lynchbait. However, if scum=IAI/DC, then whilst is being (unnecessarily, IMO) overprotective of the game and also not very aggressive.

Now, taking IAI out and looking at scum=DC/whilst, then they could be trying to play off of each other and hoping we look elsewhere.

BUT. Why take IAI out? Here he admits to preferring to be town, as mafia is "less challenging." This bears out in his low activity.

i have a couple questions. townies, what's your strategy? mafiosos, what is yours?

My strategy is to make people take stances. I'll be pushing people to identify who they suspect and what not. That and analyzing vote histories are two of the bigger parts of my scumhunting game.

Has he done that? Not (much) in my opinion.

Here he buddies up to whilst. While distancing. Simultaneously. Marvelous.

Here, IAI's top two are cavjj & DC -- perhaps clearing DC and yet he

just

said he was concerned about whilst. (A few posts later, he adds in HA for a Top Three.)

Looking through whilst's iso, there's very little interaction with IAI.

One sees what one wants to see, and I'm kinda-sorta wanting to see a IAI-whilst team right now. DC, this doesn't mean you're entirely off the hook; but for the moment, I'd rather lynch someone else. Forthwith:

Vote: whilst

[Honest Abel]

NS, I like it. But If you think the team is IAI/whilst, I'd rather go for IAI. I've played a couple/few games with whilst and have gone after him for pretty much the same reasons he's displaying here, and he's always been town. So I'm giving him the shadow of a doubt here. What do you think about that? I am willing to link to the offsite, completed games in question if you are curious.

Whether I can picture DC doing something as town or not would probably require a reread even though you make it sound like it should come intuitively, but I am dreading having to read all of that nonsense again. Lots of headache-inducing circular logic and repetition in his ISO.

If you're wondering why I'm not an SE, it's because I've only completed one game here on mafiascum.

[cavjj]

DC - Would you do anything different if someone put you to L-1?
Abel - How certain are you of DC being scum and how likely would you say that he's just a really really bad townie?

[Nobody Special]

HA, I voted whilst due to there already being a vote there. We can go with IAI if you want; I have pretty much equal reads on each.

[Honest Abel]

There's a lot of evidence stacked against DC. I'm sure we could make dozens of posts like #405. He's definitely scummy. He could also just be terribly slow and think that his strategy is a good one. His strategy isn't going to help us at all. A fraction of my desire to lynch DC comes from the idea that we're not going to be losing anything by lynching him if he's town, and we're going to have a cleaner game to play once he's gone.

Right at this moment, my personal feelings are that DC is 60% scum, 40% town. I'm actually pretty uneasy about lynching him. And frustrated at his poor play and belligerence.

[cavjj]

I appreciate that IAI is still about 16 hours away from a prod but he hasn't announced himself v/la to my knowledge and some contribution really wouldn't go a miss. His posting does seem to reveal him as the type that would sit back and watch as much as he could.

Abel the only reason why I asked that, is that in a strange sort of way I'm starting to see where he's coming from. I think he's gone about it totally the wrong way and I personally wouldn't play that way, but I think he has pretty much survived a night kill with his D2 play if he survives the lynch.

[Honest Abel]

NS, the only problem is that I don't think anyone else would join the IAI wagon. But let's see.

UNVOTE: DarkClaymore
VOTE: I Am Innocent

[cavjj]

EBWOP - second post was referring to DC. Not sure I made that obvious.

[Honest Abel]

Abel the only reason why I asked that, is that in a strange sort of way I'm starting to see where he's coming from. I think he's gone about it totally the wrong way and I personally wouldn't play that way, but I think he has pretty much survived a night kill with his D2 play if he survives the lynch.

Too bad surviving nightkills isn't the point of the game. Nightkills is gonna happen no matter what. That is a terrible excuse to use in this game unless he's a Fool or some kind of role that just needs to stay alive (e.g., Mafia). There are no Fools in newbie games.

[cavjj]

EBWOP again - paragraph* not post. Jeez.

I wouldn't. Not yet. I've not voted D2 because there are too many suspects. And I learned my lesson from D1 to be more careful with my vote...

[cavjj]

I disagree, surviving nightkills is essential if he holds a PR.

[Honest Abel]

If we end up lynching someone other than DarkClaymore, I need to know that he's not going to pull the same hijinks on D3. DC, please do not keep doing the same thing the whole game. We've provided a ton of reasons why it's not a good strategy. It's just not. Move on.

[Honest Abel]

If DC can actually convince me through good play or ATTEMPTED good play, that would be a good way to determine he's actually town. As it is, his whole "strategy" just seems like a convenient way to say "Ha! You can't ever call me scummy, because of course I'm scummy! I'm doing it on purpose!" It's a strategy that is impervious to actual reads, including town reads. That is the opposite of helpful to everyone. Actually, I guess it's helpful to the mafia.

[cavjj]

If we end up lynching someone other than DarkClaymore, I need to know that he's not going to pull the same hijinks on D3. DC, please do not keep doing the same thing the whole game. We've provided a ton of reasons why it's not a good strategy. It's just not. Move on.

+1.

DC is still my top suspect, but I'm willing him to give me a town tell and I will back off. More willing than two or three pages ago anyway. Whilst would probably be next on my list, but with IAI being so inactive, I would rather push for an IAI lynch over whilst for the time being.