Newbie 1138 - Game Over! Town Win!

[Nobody Special]

I see what you're saying, really I do.

But here's the reality: Neither IAI not whilst is likely to be NKed at this point, simply because of either A) they're scum (individually or together) or B) the suspicions raised (also, note to a hypothetical non-IAI/whilst scumteam: stop laughing

right now.

Just stop).

So, if we lynch DC today, then we'll have to wait until the end of D3 to get a flip from either IAI or whilst. And that's just too long to wait.

I can guarantee you that if either whilst or IAI flips town, DC will have a LOT to answer for.

tl;dr:

I'm not moving off of whilst or IAI at this point.

[Honest Abel]

Who's getting killed tonight anyway? Me or NS, probably. dicknose as a wildcard. Everybody else is scummy. I'm not very optimistic about winning this one.

Or, it would be great irony if one of the scummy people is a doctor or cop, the mafia know this, and plan to kill him tonight. That actually might even be helpful.

Here's what I'm saying, though, that your last post doesn't address: DC isn't likely to be NK'd either. Less likely. Not only is he scummy, he's done the most to pollute the thread and confuse the game. He's the first person I would leave alive if I were mafia. If we lynch whilst or IAI today, we'll have to wait until the end of D3 to get a flip from DC. And

that's

just too long to wait.

Are you saying that if whilst or IAI flips town, DC will have more to answer for than whichever of IAI/whist stays alive? That's the only circumstance under which I would admit a IAI/whilst lynch would be more beneficial, but I'm not seeing it. Care to explain?

[Honest Abel]

Also, I don't see an IAI lynch being very revealing about anyone else. He's been pretty good at sheltering his buddy if he's scum. IAI flips scum and his most probable teammates are... DC, cavjj, whilst.

[Bricktoes]

I think we have a decent chance of getting mmore information tomorrow regardless of who's lynched. I suppose it's anyone's game now, bbutI'm also confident.

[Nobody Special]

Also, I don't see an IAI lynch being very revealing about anyone else. He's been pretty good at sheltering his buddy if he's scum. IAI flips scum and his most probable teammates are... DC, cavjj, whilst.

Which is precisely why I want to lynch whilst first.

As for your other question,

Are you saying that if whilst or IAI flips town, DC will have more to answer for than whichever of IAI/whist stays alive? That's the only circumstance under which I would admit a IAI/whilst lynch would be more beneficial, but I'm not seeing it. Care to explain?

Yes. If one of {IAI|whilst} flips town, then DC (who looks inno-newb-town to me now) will have to be looked at much more closely than I'm looking now. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being Evilest Scum, IAI is about 7.5, whilst is a solid 9, DC is about a 5.75.

I'm willing to admit that I'm starting to tunnel on the whilst/IAI thing.

I should probably give this thread a rest for the rest of today.

P-Edit: dicknose, why'd you have to go and do that?

[whilst]

My initial thinking was that I expected more from IAI than from whilst in the way of defense.

Could you explain this in more detail?

Because of your previous activity and tendency to not so much actually explain yourself but seemingly tell people what they wanted to hear, I figured I'd get more benefit from whatever IAI had to say (if anything) than from what you might say.

Where have I just told people what they wanted to hear? If you're referring to the accusations made by DarkClaymore and Abel of me "pleasing everyone", I have already answered them. I suggest you go back and read our argument if you still have any doubts.

[whilst]

Yes. If one of {IAI|whilst} flips town, then DC (who looks inno-newb-town to me now) will have to be looked at much more closely than I'm looking now. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being Evilest Scum, IAI is about 7.5, whilst is a solid 9, DC is about a 5.75.

I'm willing to admit that I'm starting to tunnel on the whilst/IAI thing.

I should probably give this thread a rest for the rest of today.

P-Edit: dicknose, why'd you have to go and do that?

I guess it's just hard for me to hold myself back, because I know I'm a townie -- but, if you're gunning for this strategy, it's going to get you nowhere. I also can't see your argument against me, so I'm going to ask you again: What are your reasons for my suspicion?

Also, what would you gain out of a cavjj flip?

[Nobody Special]

I suspect you almost entirely based on IAIs actions. Go ahead, ask me a third time. I'll tell you the same damned thing.

I would gain the same from a cavjj flip as I would from any other flip: information. Said information would be used to reassess interactions, voting patterns, etc. IOW, taking the info and reanalyzing everyone.

[whilst]

I suspect you almost entirely based on IAIs actions. Go ahead, ask me a third time. I'll tell you the same damned thing.

I would gain the same from a cavjj flip as I would from any other flip: information. Said information would be used to reassess interactions, voting patterns, etc. IOW, taking the info and reanalyzing everyone.

Ha all right, I will. Point out (or you can link me to a post) IAI's posts that make me so scummy.

I'm sorry my cavjj flip question spat out such a generic response. Let me re-ask that too: What do you gain from my flip over a cavjj flip?

I know it may seem like I'm wasting your time, but I'm really not. I just want to make sure people look at this during D3 and wonder what you really meant.

[Nobody Special]

I apologize if I'm getting impatient, really. I guess I just see what I see and, because it looks so obvious to me, it's hard for me to grasp that not everyone sees it as I do.

A snippet from my post here:

Here he [IAI] buddies up to whilst. While distancing. Simultaneously. Marvelous.

Here, IAI's top two are cavjj & DC -- perhaps clearing DC and yet he

just

said he was concerned about whilst. (A few posts later, he adds in HA for a Top Three.)

Looking through whilst's iso, there's very little interaction with IAI.

One sees what one wants to see, and I'm kinda-sorta wanting to see a IAI-whilst team right now. DC, this doesn't mean you're entirely off the hook; but for the moment, I'd rather lynch someone else.

And, if I got your flip, it would give me (personally) more info as to whether or not to pursue IAI. A cavjj flip would lead almost nowhere, directly, in terms of connections. I'd have to start all over looking for interactions. Also, I would be wrong, and I hate being wrong.

I admit, in hindsight, it's not the most humongous case. I admit (again) that I just might be tunneling a bit on you/IAI.

And, dammit, the fact that you're pushing me for these explanations is just making you more town to me.

[DarkClaymore]

Because only scum wouldn't follow the newbie guide, right? Not convincing.

No. Not only scum. But a player who insists on pushing so hard many things which are known as "pointless" just for the sake of posting more and appearing protown - definitely feels scummy. Won't you agree?
Also, I'll say it again. Posting too much:
1) Does good to no one aside of you who appears protown and most likely won't be lynched.
2) Steals the ability of others to contribute.
3) Encourages inactivity, especially when playing with newbies who play it on the net for the first time, due to others having problems following or simply having no patience to read all the posts.
4) Due to #1,#2 and #3 it's a great scum strategy.

[whilst]

A snippet from my post here:

Here he [IAI] buddies up to whilst. While distancing. Simultaneously. Marvelous.

Here, IAI's top two are cavjj & DC -- perhaps clearing DC and yet he

just

said he was concerned about whilst. (A few posts later, he adds in HA for a Top Three.)

Looking through whilst's iso, there's very little interaction with IAI.

One sees what one wants to see, and I'm kinda-sorta wanting to see a IAI-whilst team right now. DC, this doesn't mean you're entirely off the hook; but for the moment, I'd rather lynch someone else.

Ok, I've read this over. Am I correct in saying that you think me more scummy than everyone else just because of two of IAI's posts? I'm not trying to misconstrue your words, I would just like a yes or no, if possible. Naturally if the answer is 'no', do explain.

[Honest Abel]

I agree with whilst's caution/questions. Seems like he's asking NS questions for the same reasons I am, although I started asking first. NS is being a bit more confident than he's explaining why. I can understand NS's impatience, though, because I've been feeling impatient since I've first wanted to lynch DC on D2.

DC, your statements against me are arguments against yourself. You're actually convincing me that you're scum more and more. You're unarguably the #1 person who's use prolific posting to look like you're concerned about town, whereas very little of the content is protown. You never give up discussions. You keep them going past the point of usefulness. I'm concise and know when to stop. You're also the #1 reason this game is so long and confusing. All of your activity today is verbose, headache-inducing, painful to read, and talking in circles. It makes rereading and analysis a bitch.

[singersigner]

Vote Count 2.8

cavjj (0):
DarkClaymore (1): whilst
Honest Abel (0):
whilst (1): DarkClaymore
dicknose (0):
I Am Innocent (2): dicknose, cavjj
Nobody Special (0):

Not Voting (3): Honest Abel, I Am Innocent, Nobody Special

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Mod Notes:

• Deadline is August 22nd, 2011 12am PST
  
• Keep up the great activity, guys! I LOVE not knowing if my votecount is accurate or not because of all the pages I have to sift through. (on that note, please let me know if there are any discrepancies!)

[Nobody Special]

A snippet from my post here:

Here he [IAI] buddies up to whilst. While distancing. Simultaneously. Marvelous.

Here, IAI's top two are cavjj & DC -- perhaps clearing DC and yet he

just

said he was concerned about whilst. (A few posts later, he adds in HA for a Top Three.)

Looking through whilst's iso, there's very little interaction with IAI.

One sees what one wants to see, and I'm kinda-sorta wanting to see a IAI-whilst team right now. DC, this doesn't mean you're entirely off the hook; but for the moment, I'd rather lynch someone else.

Ok, I've read this over. Am I correct in saying that you think me more scummy than everyone else just because of two of IAI's posts? I'm not trying to misconstrue your words, I would just like a yes or no, if possible. Naturally if the answer is 'no', do explain.

Actually, yes, that's what I was saying (along with the fact that you had very little interaction with IAI). I am seeing now that that's not a particularly sane or healthy thing.

Okay. Going to go re-read cavjj and DC, with a bit of dicknose too. (I *should* be looking at HA, but he's very Town right now.)

However, it won't happen until tonight (~12 hours from now).

[DarkClaymore]

DC, your statements against me are arguments against yourself. You're actually convincing me that you're scum more and more. You're unarguably the #1 person who's use prolific posting to look like you're concerned about town, whereas very little of the content is protown.

Apparently if I don't post enough, you and others will start pointing fingers at me. Just like you did with IAI a while ago. And just a reminder - the one who started extreme posting was you and not me. I'm now forced to post a lot because of you. People started calling me inactive because you posted a lot and replied to everyone's comments as soon as you could.

And I don't see how reasons 2 and 3,and hence 4, apply on me. If anything, I'm doing the opposite of what encouraging inactivity as I post stuff people want to respond to due suspicion. And this is how I can get more reads. You just post what others might want to and miss many reads. While I can't say I'm 100% sure you missed others' reads with that, you definitely missed many of my reads as I couldn't find what to contribute and hence hardly responded at first.

You never give up discussions. You keep them going past the point of usefulness. I'm concise and know when to stop.

This can be debated. What if

I

find the discussion useful? The same way that you find all these things you do useful while the wiki states otherwise?
Besides, the more you discuss - the higher the chance the one you are talking with will slip.

You're also the #1 reason this game is so long and confusing. All of your activity today is verbose, headache-inducing, painful to read, and talking in circles. It makes rereading and analysis a bitch.

You can get your "normal" reads whenever you want. However, you won't get the chance to have reads from situations with extreme lynchbait as often. Look at this situation for example. Is there only one main suspect? No. There are many of them. I believe I provided a one-time opportunity. If you didn't find it helpful, so be it. Because I did. Now things are back to how you like it, as much as possible, and you can keep getting your reads.

[Honest Abel]

You made the very first unnecessarily long post in this game. Remember when I asked who you would have killed N0? You're also padding your arguments with fluff. Please, from now on, just try to get to the point and say nothing else. Thank you in advance.

[Honest Abel]

Hey, I'm looking at dicknose's and cavjj's reasons for voting IAI and they don't look too good. It would probably be stronger to say they don't look good after IAI flips town, but since we still have some more time today, it might be worth everyone looking them over. Here they are:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3322748
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3322481

cavjj's reasons just either don't make any sense or don't add up to wanting to lynch someone. Also note that IAI has been consistently saying cavjj has been acting scummy. dicknose sort of rests on the laurels of the general consensus of IAI, which I think may be slowly shifting townward.

[DarkClaymore]

(I *should* be looking at HA, but he's very Town right now.)
.

And this is EXACTLY why you MUST look at him. Whoever appears extremely protown is dangerous by default as it's hard to lynch him in case he is scum.

You made the very first unnecessarily long post in this game. Remember when I asked who you would have killed N0? You're also padding your arguments with fluff. Please, from now on, just try to get to the point and say nothing else. Thank you in advance.

Would you have been happier if I just said "kill the IC"?
Yes, that what I was about to answer. Before reading everyone's answers.
Then I realized this answer is actually BS and is very poorly constructed. True, I could still answer it as I knew me being an exception will cause trouble for me. But I still chose to say it.

Why? Because I thought that perhaps some people here have never tried to think in this direction. If I recall correctly, someone actually did say that latter. So my goal was achieved. And that post wasn't that long. True, perhaps longer than others' answers, but only because it required a deeper explanation in order to appear reasonable.

You're also padding your arguments with fluff. Please, from now on, just try to get to the point and say nothing else. Thank you in advance.

This might be true. Would you mind showing me a few examples? I think there might be something wrong with the way I present my arguments but I can't find it myself.




And I'd like to ask people. Who do you think will be killed at night?
No. Wait.
After I finished writing the answer I realized it might not be so helpful to the town to discuss this before the said night happened. Though, maybe I'm just overthinking this? I'd like to know what others think.

[Honest Abel]

Here's an example for you:

Why? Because I thought that perhaps some...

Nobody asked why.

[Honest Abel]

That whole section about asking me if I'd prefer you saying "kill the IC" is not necessary. It's not going to change anything about how we perceive your long answer to my simple question. Just accept that some people make points about things and just try to make your own instead of trying to explain everything to death.

[Honest Abel]

VOTE: DarkClaymore

This is just what I believe.

[I Am Innocent]

And what are they saying to you?

D1: poor voting judgment, quickhammer. Newbtownishness or newbscummyness? Up to gut, open for further discussion.

D2: Almost all defense. Nothing much in the way of protown action. Sticking around but not doing much. My stabilizing defense of him seemed to make him think he can just sit back and watch what happens. Definitely have to ISO him at some point. Not looking too good.

By itself, it is up for further discussion, but considering what you list under D2 which I happen to agree with, it is newbscummyness imo.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure of both my reads.

Two town flips means game over. One town flip puts us in trouble.

So instead of admitting your mistake, you counter with "I'm pretty sure of both my reads"?

Yep, there's something wrong about that. Doesn't sound like he meant flip via nightkill, either. I think it's highly unlikely whilst or IAI would be nightkilled, obviously. It's not a scumslip, though, is it?

I don't know if it is a scumslip or not, it just felt off.

**************

Side note - don't think I ever answered this, eastern time here.

[Honest Abel]

About cavjj:

D2: Almost all defense. Nothing much in the way of protown action. Sticking around but not doing much. My stabilizing defense of him seemed to make him think he can just sit back and watch what happens. Definitely have to ISO him at some point. Not looking too good.

By itself, it is up for further discussion, but considering what you list under D2 which I happen to agree with, it is newbscummyness imo.[/quote]Fair enough. Anyone else feel that cavjj's D2 actions are newbcum?

[Honest Abel]

EBWOP:

About cavjj:

D2: Almost all defense. Nothing much in the way of protown action. Sticking around but not doing much. My stabilizing defense of him seemed to make him think he can just sit back and watch what happens. Definitely have to ISO him at some point. Not looking too good.

By itself, it is up for further discussion, but considering what you list under D2 which I happen to agree with, it is newbscummyness imo.

Fair enough. Anyone else feel that cavjj's D2 actions are newbscum?