~~Mini 1216: S.M.H. (A.S.N.P.T.) Mafia GAME OVER!!! WOOO~~

[Hellhound1]

Hey
Random.org said go for benmage soooo..
VOTE: Benmage

[Hellhound1]

@mod: Captain Hoala is counted voting twice, should only be on me i believe.

The issue against the vote during RVS

May i ask that this vote not be counted as a vote for me? as his reason for voting off grimmjow was that he doesnt like bleach. my name does not relate to bleach in any way

seems quite, well, full of paranoia, to steal someone else's line.

meh, UNVOTE:

VOTE: killerX029

This.

Sleuth, this appears to be your first game on here. And your 3rd comment. What other experience of mafia do you have? Obviously non onsite, but could you link to a few finished games offsite, id be interested to see their use of random.org.

[Hellhound1]

Woops, meant to explain my reasoning behind killer vote.

Killer, you have no onsite experience, could you too give us an example of a game you've been in?
Anyway, asking to be unvoted stinks of newbscum to me, its what i wouldve done in my first game, and yes the nervousness behind behind it shows that you dont like a vote on you. I feel that a town player would just shrug off a vote, because they'll know it'll move soon.

[Hellhound1]

Haoala, im not bothered about you voting me for using random.org, it was sleuth voting me.

He sheeped you, and if he has no experience playing mafia, then he knows nothing about using random.org in mafiascum, in which case he's only buddying you, which IMO is scummy.

[Hellhound1]

I want to know what you know.

Eh? Game wise, the same as any other town player.

Random.org wise, well i could be saying im using random.org but im not? Scum obviously know who is and isnt town. Theres hundreds of possibilites as to why YOU think its scummy. Im not a mindreader and dont plan to become one anytime soon, so err.. Ill stick to using a genuinely random vote during a random voting stage.

[Hellhound1]

I see someone isnt into random numbers.

[Hellhound1]

Naturally, random numbers are the most scummiest of numbers. I mean, if i were to use, for example, www.psychicscience.org/random.aspx, that wouldnt be scummy at all. After all, you're implying visiting the site and using the generator is scummy.

Still, care to link to other games where the use of random.org has been proven to be scummy?

[Hellhound1]

Sorry long time no post, i had a busy weekend and, although i read the game every day, i had no time to post.

Anyway,

51 kind of seals it. hellhound and killer are opposite alignments imo. townkiller = scum hound. scumkiller = VIhound.

Well to start off with, 51 was about sleuth not killer. If killer flips town, im tunneling after sleuth for his blantant sheeping and his STILL failure to answer any of my questions. Or any real questions.

If killer flips scum, then ill take a closer look at the more shouty players, no doubt his buddy at some point has either tried to save him, or tried to bus him as much as possible.

[Hellhound1]

@Hell: please give me your read of Lurco.

his only content filled post was very null. Leaning town imo.

Id like to see if sleuth will follow up with what he said.
He was very sheepy and didnt really answer any questions, at least not to a level that equals a valid answer. i know the random.org thing was yesterday, but its more to do with how he said it, rather than what he said.

So VOTE: Sleuth

[Hellhound1]

Hey everyone still here.

Anyway from my perspective if BenMage is scum then Hellhound is as well. I realize this is a gut read but with his RNG vote being Ben that is an easy way to try and distance himself from his partner earlier. He also didn't weigh in on benmage or gaylord which are pretty much what the last two pages have been about.

Ill split that into 2 points

1)

I realize this is a gut read

Theres my first problem.

RNG vote being Ben that is an easy way to try and distance himself from his partner earlier.

Are you pushing the RNG = scummy thing too? I thought i explained it was an actual random vote... -.-

Anyway, gut reads and sheeping other peoples ideas from D1 do not make a valid argument imo.

2)

He also didn't weigh in on benmage or gaylord which are pretty much what the last two pages have been about.

Yeah RL sort of got in the way of mafia, what with A level results, work etc all of a sudden piling stuff on me. But thats out the way (hopefully)



Anyway onto the scum hunting..

until he weighs in on the Benmage situation

i fail to see much of a situation, in fact id much rather look at the Gaylord hammer, especially with not telling us who the heads are.
Yeah ben over reacted, but then i feel i do too when i play town, so over reactions are not a scum tell for me. Rather, someone who avoids the attention until it falls onto someone else is scummier.
Id also like to take a look at don_johnson, his points against ben seem to be weak.

Anyway, sleuth still hasnt said anything so m vote stays. And ill try to post more.

[Hellhound1]

but I don't like hell's last post. There is something subtly scummy in the psychology of it, especially in the way he argumentates in the first half of it. When someone says:

your logic is invalid

, instead of saying:

bullshit, I am town

, a bell rings in my head. It's ringing now.

Ooh sorry for defending myself, ill be sure to not do that again. Oh and if someone says to me "Thats bullshit im town" and leave it that, then that in itself is scummy. Either way, id have to defend myself. Just because i do it more subtly and dont over react and get pissy, that doesnt make me scum.
Oh and isnt bells ringing in your head the first sign of insanity

would have liked to trying meta'ing them, but their refusal to out themselves should not be regarded as a certain scumtell.

Of course it isnt, its just really unhelpful.

what bothers me in Gaylord's activity is the shortness of his posts... if he wants to vote ben, he should provide us with a case.

I played with someone else who had short, one line posts. Turned out they were a brilliant player, and almost caught me out.
So i kind of disagree, but its a good idea to keep an eye out.

sleuth managed to do very little, so I appreciate the idea of pressuring him.

Id

really

like some answers from him. Or just something from him..

Strongest town read?
Umm.. thats really quite hard. Id happily hammer most of you, but id have to go for you, lew, for actually looking at meta, a good town tell imo.

[Hellhound1]

I'm quite happy with a teamsleep lynch.
If he flips scum then vote gaylord.

VOTE: Teamsleep

[Hellhound1]

I played with someone else who had short, one line posts. Turned out they were a brilliant player, and almost caught me out.
So i kind of disagree, but its a good idea to keep an eye out.

Who was this?

I've seen plenty of shitty one-line players
[/quote]

hiplop

[Hellhound1]

BAH =.=

[Hellhound1]

Hurry up and claim Mr Focker. Im quite happy to switch my vote over to you, and see what happens.

[Hellhound1]

Personally, im still happy with a teamsleep lynch..

I mean, in the one or two posts, its mainly about the slip.
That, ofc, could be a red herring planted by scum, but its 20 to 1 in the morning and i dont want to overthink things.

[Hellhound1]

I mean, in the one or two posts, its mainly about the slip.

In mafiafixed's one or two posts*

Woops.

[Hellhound1]

My reason had nothing to do with gaylord.
Therefore my theory still stands.
Although i haven't voted him yet, i asked opinions on the theory.
Someone is eager to lynch.

[Hellhound1]

Sorry guys, i've been dedicating alot more time to the other games due to the perilous position going AWOL for 4 days has put me in.
However i felt (as theres no deadline) this was the one with the weakest case against me, and so yeah, i gave the other ones much more of my time. Im still reading this one though.

Oh and to answer the slip question, mafia's posts were about the slip, and he was killed. As it was 2am, i pieced the logic together in a half zombie like state and posted.
On reflection, i regret it.

Anyway, UNVOTE:
Ill reread this a few times and throw a decent vote out.

[Hellhound1]

Empking

how would you define your scum game?

Getting by and trying to get to endgame as quick as possible.

Vote: HH

Lulz. Anyway, i still dont see the benmage case, to me it seems like he got angry, not necessarily a scum tell but oh well.

Im leaning scum on lewarcher (despite what i said earlier) from just the way he's playing. Must go meta him before i commit to that.

Also Captain Hoala, i dont know what it is, mostly gut. I tend to trust my gut in all manner of things.

Don_johnson i think is leaning town, based off of meta from a game just finished. He feels the same >.>

And empking, im watching you. That thing above + you asked for a massclaim. That = rolefishing to me, which = scummy.

Lets massclaim quickly before it breaks the flow.

[Hellhound1]

Ok maybe you were.. erm.. rolesteamrolling?

[Hellhound1]

Yeah theres better ways to do it, i dont agree with mass claims. We still have 10 days until this day is over, no need to rush..

Also, if someone is run up to L1 and claims PR, theres a chance of someone CCing. Mass claiming would destroy that, its like the only trick town has up its sleeve from the start.

[Hellhound1]

Also, mass claim

quickly

? Why? At that point we didnt have a time limit.

[Hellhound1]

Hell what do you think of lucronis?

Urm, he's wrong, mostly.

Seems

to be legit scumhunting though, even if its all about me. Id like to see him scumhunt someone else, so i could compare the two. (Around current issues, not you, ben, i feel that failed.)

I cant figure out if hes tunneling because he wants a lynch or because he's trying to scumhunt.
We'll see.

[Hellhound1]

Also, mass claim

quickly

? Why? At that point we didnt have a time limit.

Nobody likes stalled games. Plus we still have the ability to CC it'll just happen during the massclaim.

Yeah, less effectively. Especially if scum CC last. They already see whos claimed what. Also, they could claim VT and look like every other player so i dont see any advantage for town, only scum.

Hell what do you think of lucronis?

Urm, he's wrong, mostly.

Seems

to be legit scumhunting though, even if its all about me. Id like to see him scumhunt someone else, so i could compare the two. (Around current issues, not you, ben, i feel that failed.)

I cant figure out if hes tunneling because he wants a lynch or because he's trying to scumhunt.
We'll see.

meaning null tell btw.

[Hellhound1]

Spoiler: lewarcher

This town is terribly fail. Since the scum to town ratio is 3:6 in the happiest scenario, if you decide to celebrate fail by making a wagon, please ask me to claim before you put me too close to L. Thanks.

Also: combining the following reads, these are my results.

empking: prob-town for the way he suggested to massclaim. Too big risk for scum to take.

CC: prob-town because of the google-doc-sheet.

Myself: obvtown despite of the terrible town-fellas.

This leaves prolly 3 scum among: DJ, Hell, Christine, Lurco, Jam, Ben.

Having to pick one strong scumread, I'd say Hell. because he is trying to say he is fos'ing me. He didn't as long as I was one of the most active players and no one fos'ed me. But as soon as he sees that CH is fosing me, he prepares to sheep.

@CH: gaylord didn't react like a newbie, and his little activity gave me the feeling of a player who is not new to the site. I cannot be more precise than this and will not. Because it is a creepingly silly point and I hope you will realise it before you doom us all with it. Again: what I accused teamsleep of was KNOWING the heads, not thinking that they are experienced. And if you really don't see the difference, I overestimated this website.

@Hell: go on and make a case on me. And make sure you put something original in it.

P-EDIT: thanks for clarifying that it is a nulltell on lurco. You certainly wanna make sure you are not committing, huh?

Dude chillax O.o
Firstly, im making it clear where my reads are. If its null, its null. Deal with it.
I dont like this reaction though.

[Hellhound1]

Also, mass claim

quickly

? Why? At that point we didnt have a time limit.

Nobody likes stalled games. Plus we still have the ability to CC it'll just happen during the massclaim.

Yeah, less effectively. Especially if scum CC last. They already see whos claimed what. Also, they could claim VT and look like every other player so i dont see any advantage for town, only scum.

If they all claim VT then we'll have three confirmed town and scum in a position where they can't claim something to avoid the lynch.

Urm.. they'll know who the PRs are, and they could claim VT and we'd learn nothing because we dont know who else is town, except for the PRs. Who'd be killed btw.
Ive seen hammers fail when scum claims VT. Hell, i did it in my first game. I have to disagree. Unless im misunderstanding some mechanic.

[Hellhound1]

That won't work if they claim it in massclaim.

Unvote

Ok say theres 6 people, named person 1 to person 6.

2 of these people are PRs. 2 are scum, being persons 5 and 6.

So person 1 claims PR.
Person 2 claims VT
Person 3 claims VT.

Scum dont know how many PRs there are, but im assuming its safe to assume theres more than 1?
So they know there can only be one more PR. So they dont claim it.

So person 5 claims VT.
person 4 claims PR
person 6 claims VT.

So now scum know who the PRs are and town are non the wiser?
Am i missing something? Its been a long day,

i do apologize if i am.

[Hellhound1]

I kind of see your point. I still think its too risky, and a possible scum move from you. We'll see.

[Hellhound1]

HH - why on earth were you gone for so long? And why have you become active all of a sudden? I hope you have good explanations for these. My name is haoala.

I was gone and i came back? And my explanations are private, "RL issues" will have to do.

Part of the Captain Haoala team gets onto Hellhound for the random.org voting, but a question is brought up about why Sleuth was waggoning, which I am wondering too.

Am i the only person who saw sleuth's buddying as scummy?

Anyway, @ CH, why are you so against people jumping off of my bandwagon? Maybe you think im scum, but i know im not and so when people recognize me for actually being town then they have all right to jump off, no?

Also @ lewarcher, im still not sure what to make, i probably wouldve dropped it but that little fit you threw, even though i only said im reading meta, was a warning sign to me.
Im not really sure if it was frustrated town, or pissed off scum.

[Hellhound1]

Hai. I am here and ive been reading so meh.

Also, I'm a VT.
If you decide to lynch me anyway, you might wanna look at lewarcher/lurc.
Just a thought.

[Hellhound1]

Woops. You empking. Your mass claim idea is going ahead anyway i see. I'm against it but you'll do it anyway

[Hellhound1]

Ill get on that vote.
VOTE: Don
Might as well join in.

[Hellhound1]

HH was fooled(?) by empking

Not at all. I even said i could see the MC coming. Whats the point in me refusing to do it anyway?
I was close to being hammered, i claimed, empking asked me to pick someone to choose to claim next, i saw it was a mc.
I argued against it originally, nobody seemed to care so theres no point me smacking my head against a brick wall.

[Hellhound1]

empking asked me to choose the next person to claim.
im pretty sure thats how it started.