Open 326: Pick Your Poison (Ende des Speils!)
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Auckmid Goon
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thunderwielder Goon
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Glowball wrote:Um, the other question was yours and I don't remember what is was- if you wanted answered you need to ask it again, I'm not going through searching and quoting a question, I'm lazy.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this one of the big reasons you got in a tizzy over Maruchan?ShowW:3L:1
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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I think not all of your case is playstyle, but a lot of it is just something I associate with glowball, having played with her a couple of times now. The first time I played with her, I keyed in on it too. I haven't seen too many things that concerned me except a couple of things I noted. One was her weak FoS on you. It was bad and it continues to be bad - but I can see an emotional town glowball doing this, too.
Also, it's totally unfair for you to ask glowball to do anything else pertaining to a Maruchan case. She made a huge one, whether or not you agree with it.
I would like to see a Saulres case as well, though.-
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thunderwielder Goon
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Amrun wrote:Because scumreads are only half of the game. Even if some people think your reads are useless - and I can name only one or two that do, namely thunderwielder - if you flip town, voila! Reads no longer useless.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. I would like ALL of your reads, Glow.
Amrun wrote:Also, it's totally unfair for you to ask glowball to do anything else pertaining to a Maruchan case. She made a huge one, whether or not you agree with it.
Ok, fair enough. But I was seeing if there was anything else that she had, since she seems to be quite passionate about it and I don't really understand why. That's why my last question wasn't rhetorical, but in earnest.
The other reason was to ask for a Saul case from her, which I don't think I've ever seen, but she's held on to since the first page. Then she's said, no Maruchan is scummier (which is valid because she's at least given reasons, regardless of whether or not I'm able to get on the same page), but she's still held onto that Saulres scum read--which I thought she had said previously she didn't find that scummy (which is where my initial argument with her stemmed from).ShowW:3L:1
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Supreme Overlord Goon
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Interesting that you didn't mention this back on page 8/9 when I was talking to RoboThor and Amrun about their town reads. Plus, the original question wasn't about town reads, it was about reads on specific players (Nobody Special and myself). It's not only the reads that are important, it's your reasoning behind how you arrived at those reads. If it's just 'rubbish, rubbish, rubbish; he's scum', that's giving us insight into your alignment.glowball wrote:Town reads only matter to scum.
glowball wrote:I have scum reads MARUCHAN and SAULRES. Why do you need the town reads? Why aren't the scum reads good enough?
Not only this, but so far you've only given reads on two players. Disregarding your own alignment, that's only one quarter of the players in the game.Amrun wrote:Because scumreads are only half of the game.
I would not. However, I would say that I'm able to be swayed by reasonable arguments. I found thunderweilder's arguments sensible, and with that added to glowball's lack of defence and refusal to provide reads, it sums up to a logical place to put my vote.Auckmid wrote:I'm reading through the thread now, but I find it interesting that Overlord has joined the Glowball wagon even though this is the first accusation about her all game.
@Supreme Overlord: Would you concider yourself a Sheep?
In #240 I mentioned 'uneasy feelings' about glowball; obviously not strong, but my vote hasn't come out of nowhere. That was also the first post where I asked her about refusing to give out reads.
Just a note on glowball's 'sensitivity'; I'm not planning to be swayed one way or another by emotion. Clear arguments are what I like to see and use.Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid doing entirely.-
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saulres Mafia Scum
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thunderwielder wrote:@Saulres, could you convince me why Maruchan is a better lynch today than Glowball?
Probably not. Since I think they're both mafia, the main reason I'd rather see Maruchan go first is because of his posting style -- I think one of the reasons it's so hard to find active replacements for this game, or for the majority of current players to get caught up, is his endlessly long posts. Combine their length with their quantity and difficulty to follow due to the quote ladders (that's not the right term but I think you know what I mean) and I think Day 2 will go easier with him gone than with glowball.
My hesitation on moving my vote to glowball is because my play style is such that once I make up my mind, I want the game to progress. Since there were 5 votes on Maruchan and just the one on glowball, I felt (and still feel) it's more likely for him to be lynched today than her, so I don't want to delay that by bouncing my votes around. But if the pendulum swings the other way, my vote will swing with it."SAULRES you are THE man! Fav mod eva, no contest!" - Bert; "Saulres is a fantastic mod, if he is running a game everyone needs to join it." - FuDuzn
Nominated for Paperback Writer Scummie 2013 and 2014!
On permanentV/LAFriday afternoons through Saturday nights.-
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thunderwielder Goon
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One more thing before I turn in for the night
Amrun wrote:I think not all of your case is playstyle, but a lot of it is just something I associate with glowball, having played with her a couple of times now. The first time I played with her, I keyed in on it too. I haven't seen too many things that concerned me except a couple of things I noted. One was her weak FoS on you. It was bad and it continues to be bad - but I can see an emotional town glowball doing this, too.
While I see the merit of this point, I would caution you from it. In my other game thatliterallyjust finished (one that I subbed into), one of the players made a similar point about Deity Kabuto, and him usually getting lynched the first day because of his playstyle and how it seemed scummy. Wejustlynched him, and it turns out hewasscummy. But I also took this player's analysis at face value and trusted it until there was no other option BUT to lynch Deity, which we found out was the right option all along. So while I understand these feelings, I don't think I can give them too much weight. If you disagree that there hasn't been scummy behaviour going on, that's perfectly valid. And I also understand gut feelings and reads from previous games. But scummy behaviour needs to be treated as such, and not given a free pass because of previous scummy behaviour.
Also, unrelated (yet related), the beginning of Overlord's post interests me quite. I had forgotten the initial debate was not about town reads, it was just about giving reads on specific players--which has evolved into a situation where we're all starting to pity Glowball for not feeling secure enough to post her reads, or that they won't matter. I'm not sure how that got turned around on its head, but the proof is in the pudding.ShowW:3L:1
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glowball Mafia Scum
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I haven't answered thunder's case because I see nothing to answer for, he's interpreted my behavior as scummy and I cannot disagree with his playstyle or frame of mind. He's wrong and his case is garbage IMO, but I realize why he's come to those conclusion and that has to do with playstyle- he's obviously not a successful scumhunter because I find it very hard to see him as scum at this point.
I am not giving my reads on other players because they aren't necessary. The only people I am willing to lynch today are Saulres and Maruchan. That's it and deduce from that what you will.-
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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glowball wrote:I haven't answered thunder's case because I see nothing to answer for, he's interpreted my behavior as scummy and I cannot disagree with his playstyle or frame of mind. He's wrong and his case is garbage IMO, but I realize why he's come to those conclusion and that has to do with playstyle-he's obviously not a successful scumhunter because I find it very hard to see him as scum at this point.
I am not giving my reads on other players because they aren't necessary. The only people I am willing to lynch today are Saulres and Maruchan. That's it and deduce from that what you will.
That doesn't make sense.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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Nobody Special Survivor
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I'm really sorry; still on more-or-less V/LA; reading thread but can't really get into it much.
When y'all stop arguing emotions and start working with facts, I'll be back. (Yes, I know there's been some facts. Few and far between, but they're there. Somewhere. )-
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Xalxe He/himIt's pronounced "Xalxe"He/him
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Xalxe He/himIt's pronounced "Xalxe"He/him
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saulres Mafia Scum
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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So before deciding replacing in I speed-skimmed the thread, and I've got to say, one of the main factors in me replacing in was this post:
glowball wrote:Alright, this is a wall hidden by spoilers for bullet points on why Maruchan is scummy...
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
SPOILERS: DOING IT WRONG
You need to know that.
I'll post actual stuff later today.Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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thunderwielder Goon
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glowball wrote:I guess that does read a little backwards. I find it hard to see Thunder as scum, so he's obviously just bad at scumhunting. Which is what townies do and scum don't do that. Hopefully that's clearer. So there you go, another "read" just got to look closely
While I appreciate you now finding me as town, why is it that I'm no longer under a Finger of Suspicion from you? Where did that big change come from?Or is it that you're hoping I'll back off if you stop suspecting me?
You still haven't quoted from before where I misrepresented you, which was your initial cause for suspicion against me.
You still haven't given us your case on Saulres.
You still haven't answered my previous question about Maruchan (or are you just purposefully avoiding that one too).
You still haven't responded to anything in my case about you (other than--it's weak, and just leaving it at that)
You still haven't given your reads on Nobody Special and Supreme Overlord (why do you automatically assume that they are town?--I'm getting this from your "I don't feel the need to give out town reads" statement).
I would like that you maybe address three of the above five points. Is that too much to ask for? You don't even have to answer all of them, justdo something.
Also, welcome Hoppster and MrTrow. I look forward to your input on all that's happened thus far. Thanks for subbing in, guys!ShowW:3L:1
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Amrun Killed the Radio Star
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Oh, thank God, Hoppster and Trow. This makes me happy.-
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thunderwielder Goon
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You still haven't responded to anything in my case about you (other than--it's weak, and just leaving it at that)
I'll retract this partially, because you have responded, agreed that you can see where I'm coming from, but that it all falls down to playstyle. I'll change my question here to having you maybe elaborate and defend why my case is all playstyle, and none of it therefore has any value.ShowW:3L:1
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nobody Special
^^^ good vote isgood.
>>> No content (admittedly a lack of content could be attributed to V/LA but not acomplete absenceof content)
Nobody Special wrote:Okay, here's the deal: RoboThor is incredibly town, even though their read on me is completely wrong.
NihilisticNinja is probscum. Shouldn't be avoiding the thread. I assume he found out how hard it is toappeartown and gave up.
SupremeOverlord is rather town.
Maruchan, howver.......
A question for Maruchan: Let's go back to your iso#29. Why is thunderweilder so very town? Do you not agree that scum could say the very same thing?
Amrun, as much as I hate to say it, is most likely town, also.
>>> RoboThor as a town-read... wait, who is he voting again?Xalxe wrote:
>>> Only one scum-readgiven- and it's a flimsy reason that basically allows him to ignore everything that's been said in-thread - also no vote
>>> COMPLETELY AVOIDS giving a read on Maruchan (arguably it's implied, but why not just say it then?) - and by following up with a question, he can then use the answer to that question to justify Maruchan-town or Maruchan-scum later on without contradicting himself earlier
glowball:At what point did you decide (in your head) that Maruchan was more worthy of a vote than Saulres?
Maruchan:Scum-reads please (ordered if possible).
saulres wrote:Yay! Welcome replacements!thunderwielder wrote:Also, welcome Hoppster and MrTrow. I look forward to your input on all that's happened thus far. Thanks for subbing in, guys!Amrun wrote:Oh, thank God, Hoppster and Trow. This makes me happy.
:')Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Nobody Special Survivor
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Oh, yeah.
Forgot to un-random-vote.
unvote-
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Nobody Special Survivor
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Hoppster Mafia Scum
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Nobody Special [emphasis mine] wrote:Okay, here's the deal: RoboThor is incredibly town, even though their read on me is completely wrong.
NihilisticNinja is probscum.Shouldn't be avoiding the thread. I assume he found out how hard it is toappeartown and gave up.
SupremeOverlord is rather town.
Maruchan, howver.......
A question for Maruchan: Let's go back to your iso#29. Why is thunderweilder so very town? Do you not agree that scum could say the very same thing?
Amrun, as much as I hate to say it, is most likely town, also.Xalxe [emphasis mine] wrote:Benmage: First, for the sake of irony. I'm going to illustrate how completely idiotic and hypocritical scumhunter is.-
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Nobody Special Survivor
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Yeah, that. A lot has happened since then, still trying to wrap my head around this game.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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thunderwielder wrote:glowball wrote:I guess that does read a little backwards. I find it hard to see Thunder as scum, so he's obviously just bad at scumhunting. Which is what townies do and scum don't do that. Hopefully that's clearer. So there you go, another "read" just got to look closely
While I appreciate you now finding me as town, why is it that I'm no longer under a Finger of Suspicion from you? Where did that big change come from?Or is it that you're hoping I'll back off if you stop suspecting me?
You still haven't quoted from before where I misrepresented you, which was your initial cause for suspicion against me.
You still haven't given us your case on Saulres.
You still haven't answered my previous question about Maruchan (or are you just purposefully avoiding that one too).
You still haven't responded to anything in my case about you (other than--it's weak, and just leaving it at that)
You still haven't given your reads on Nobody Special and Supreme Overlord (why do you automatically assume that they are town?--I'm getting this from your "I don't feel the need to give out town reads" statement).
I would like that you maybe address three of the above five points. Is that too much to ask for? You don't even have to answer all of them, justdo something.
Also, welcome Hoppster and MrTrow. I look forward to your input on all that's happened thus far. Thanks for subbing in, guys!
As for your points, some of them have been addressed AND I never promised a case on Saulres I actually recall saying I don't think he deserved a formal case because his scumminess was obvious. The point is that I have addressed the case you made, maybe not to your liking but it's been addressed YOU OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT READING MY POSTS.
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