Post Apocalyptic Mafia - Mini 1226: Over!

[Timeater]

cuz I agree with hind 100%

wraith or nico, doesnt matter. im just trying to be efficient

[Hinduragi]

If both Wraith and Nico are scummy, then someone's wrong and one of them isn't scum because my link isn't a bus. I don't think it's Wraith.

[Hinduragi]

Why you jumpin' ship on Wraith, bro?

Why are you ignoring me?

[Hinduragi]

Ah, xvart is town. Good to know.

[Hinduragi]

Wraith
Nicodemus
Zajnet
palisade (TwistedSpoon+Mastin2)
CSL
diddin

I'm going to go ahead and estimate that the scumteam is in here.

[AurorusVox]

Hindu, you're correct.
Wraith is one of them. Zajnet is another.

Third could be ???

Wraith I'm sure on: just look at how many people ON THAT VERY LIST are saying "oh, Wraith is scummy but I won't vote him, I'll vote SOMEONE ELSE"

Nico has him as third scummiest. He votes CSL.
Zajnet calls him scum. He votes CSL.
Diddin "could" vote Wraith. He votes CSL.
CSL doesn't mention Wraith yet (>_>) and Pallisade is just lol.

Add Timeaster changing off Wraith to get on Nico
Fate voting him then loldropping it with Wraith's excuse post
Gaoth saying Wraith is scum but voting Nico

xvart gets off Wraith too (agree xvart is town, his hop off is the most protown one so far)
And now you're teasing me and saying he's scum but not voting for him...


Guarantee Wraith is scum since almost all of those interactions stink and he's at the centre of it all.

[Timeater]

why isnt it a bus

[Fate]

Wraith MIGHT be scum, idc, there are better day one lynches while I'm alive.

[Hinduragi]

Just because some people think he's scum doesn't mean it's a bus when it could just as easily be scum doing that to a townie. Plus I said that before realizing Wraith unvoted Nico in his next post, which ruins it.

[Timeater]

vc, cowhumper

why did you change that godtier avatar

MORE NICO VOTES
EASY WIN INCOMING

[Wraith]

Oh snap, hotel has free wireless.

It's funny how all these people shout "WRAITH IS OBVSCUM" but instead of actually doing something about those suspicions, they go "K CAUGHT SCUM LET'S FIND HIS BUDDIES"

So either some people are scum trying to avoid being stuck with the blame for lynching a townie, or they're townies who doubt my scuminess and are afraid to go too far with their sheeping.

[AurorusVox]

Or they're your scumbuddies not wanting to bus their buddy to a lynch D1...

[Slaxx]

Votecount 1.04

Nicodemus(3)

: Gaoth, Hinduragi, Timeater

CSL(3)

: Nicodemus, Diddin, Zajnet

Wraith(2)

: Regfan, Aurorusvox

Timeater(1)

: CSL

diddin(1)

: xvart

Gaoth(1)

: Wraith

Regfan(1)

: Fate

AurorusVox(1)

: Palisade

Zajnet(0)

:

palisade(0)

:

Hinduragi(0)

:

xvart(0)

:

Fate(0)

:

Not Voting:

7 is a majority.
Deadline is in (expired on 2011-09-07 20:00:00).

[Timeater]

vox what do think about pali/pr

[Wraith]

Or they're your scumbuddies not wanting to bus their buddy to a lynch D1...

So by this logic...about 8 people in this game are my scumbuddies? Or we could use Occam's Razor to cut through the WIFOM and deduce that there is no vast conspiracy surrounding my so-called scumbuddies, but that I am in fact being set up for a mislynch. I mean, scum and so-called scumhunters alike are using cheap tactics to make it look like I'm guilty.

[xvart]

Seriously though, does anyone know of Slaxx having post restrictions before and whether or not he would likely include a debilitating post restriction in a game he designed?

I went through every game Slaxx has moderated and couldn't find a single post restricted role (my methodology included Slaxx's ISO in every game searching for role pm's at the end of the game and then Firefox searching by "restri". This obviously doesn't mean that he would never include one so has anyone more familiar with Slaxx (I've never even played with Slaxx before) know if he would likely include a post restriction (or rather be very unlikely to include one)? For example, I was confident that hascow's restriction in SoS mafia was fake because I remembered having a conversation with Faraday about randomized or arbitrary role mechanics and he said he was opposed to using things like 50% chance of success, actions that were not standardized, unstandardized punishments, etc.).

Palisade

thinks he's clever, but a claim this early is simply bullshit. Nothing says, "Kill me now to spare a real PR" like claiming cop day one. When he doesn't wind up dead, it would basically be confscum. Palisade is townie.

I don't understand this at all, especially your foregone conclusion about his death tonight which hasn't happened proving he is town.

@ Xvart -

CSL having a lack of reasoning behind his reads doesn't mean anything. In any band he had different reads on me and Gaoth after we claimed mason.

What's your point? Having no reasoning meaning nothing means it is worthless to even ask? I fail to see how not asking for explanations is town motivated because asking for an explanation will either reveal one of three things:

1. He had no explanation to begin with and it was a false read for buddying purposes;
   
2. He had no explanation and made something up that contradicted his posted mentalilty; or,
   
3. He had a coherent reason for the vote.

In any case I want to know what his thinking was so what's the problem?

I completely agree with Wraith on Goath's "double speak" but I am a little wary of his extrapolation of the scum team with the conclusions he has drawn in 146. It seems a little like only seeing what he wants to see.

Regfan is town too. Nico, Wraith, and diddin are the scumteam. Let's wrap this up, lynch Nico first, and then nab his buddies.

Can you explain to me the connections and how these three players are tied together?

Wraith I'm sure on: just look at how many people ON THAT VERY LIST are saying "oh, Wraith is scummy but I won't vote him, I'll vote SOMEONE ELSE"

Nico has him as third scummiest. He votes CSL.
Zajnet calls him scum. He votes CSL.
Diddin "could" vote Wraith. He votes CSL.
CSL doesn't mention Wraith yet (>_>) and Pallisade is just lol.

Add Timeaster changing off Wraith to get on Nico
Fate voting him then loldropping it with Wraith's excuse post
Gaoth saying Wraith is scum but voting Nico

xvart gets off Wraith too (agree xvart is town, his hop off is the most protown one so far)
And now you're teasing me and saying he's scum but not voting for him...


Guarantee Wraith is scum since almost all of those interactions stink and he's at the centre of it all.

The problem is you've identified seven people who I agree have marginally suspicious reasons for not voting Wraith; but if there are three scum then five or four of them are town (depending on Wraith's alignment) so the suspiciousness is muddled because a majority of them are town. And furthermore, I don't think the suspicious behavior of the people not voting Wraith condemns Wraith as scum because it could be scum members egging on a town mislynch while staying off of it. Overall, I think this analysis has merit, but not for the reasons you put forward. For instance, I think if CSL ever flips town then Nico, Zjanet, and Diddin all score major scum points for trying to push an easy-ish mislynch. Those three could be pushing a counter wagon while feigning support for scumWraith, but I think the rest on your list is pushing the limit a little.

So either some people are scum trying to avoid being stuck with the blame for lynching a townie, or they're townies who doubt my scuminess and are afraid to go too far with their sheeping.

Care to share who you think falls into which category as you've outlined?

[Regfan]

So, despite other players (Regfan) capitalizing on my other posts and playing into their DIDID scenario, my LURKING and V/LA is what Gaoth jumps on? And immediately declares me as definitive scum? Lol, I think someone hasn't actually read the thread beyond his scumbuddies' posts and is trying to pass it off as if he has.

1. If you think I'm 'capitalizing' on your posts why aren't you currently voting me?
2. Gaoth is also stating that Diddin and Nico are scum, both of those are two of your strong scum-reads so I'm failing to see how you even potentially suspect him.
3. You haven't been "Lurking" recently as I said, you're one of the most active players but active and posting fluff only.

I went through every game Slaxx has moderated and couldn't find a single post restricted role.

Slaxx hates post restrictions and think they detract from the game meaning the post restrction is 100% fake. There hasn't been any point stating so until now because him posting like that means I don't have to hear his illogical and non-sensical reasoning behind his reads (I asked to /Out if Mastin /Inned but caved last minute due to the player list being amazing and me being a pussy). I've seen Mastin act and fake things like this previously as town and I'm failing to see him claim cop this early on as mafia as a counter-claim (Which is likely for a role as common as cop) would lead towards his lynch.

What's your point? Having no reasoning meaning nothing means it is worthless to even ask? I fail to see how not asking for explanations is town motivated.

Don't get me wrong, I know where you're coming from the (More information is always better) angle but it's not the reasoning behind CSLs read that means anything it's his actual read, his reasoning is going to be piss poor or 'gut' regardless of his alignment thus asking him is fluff. Speaking of which I need to get to reading Nico later but I have to leave for cricket soon.

[Wraith]

@Regfan: I'm not voting you because I like Gaoth's play less. Simple enough? And yet despite being one of the most active players, the entire case against stems from my so-called "lurking." Some damn me for lurking, some (like yourself) damn me for posting "only because I was pressured to"

@xvart: I have expanded. I think the scum are Gaoth, Regfan, and Nico. Everyone else is in the other camp except for the people who really don't care for the bullshit the scum and stupid are trying to push on me.

[CSL]

Vote: Nicodemus

Bullshit reason to vote me.

[Gaoth]

Palisade thinks he's clever, but a claim this early is simply bullshit. Nothing says, "Kill me now to spare a real PR" like claiming cop day one. When he doesn't wind up dead, it would basically be confscum. Palisade is townie.

Nice doublespeak, but you're sending conflicting messages, in discrediting both Palisade's claim and credibility while calling him town. Riddle me this: why would Palisade go to all the effort of faking a post restriction, then creating a code for said post restriction to convey a claim, instead of just saying "Yo guys I'm a cop dawgs don't kill me bro"? Lend an air of plausibility, you say? Well obviously it hasn't convinced anyone but me, and he hasn't dropped the "fake" restriction yet, so why keep it up if no one buys it?

Lets see if i can spell this out for you, since you seem focused on saving not yourself, but nico, by trying to push a lynch onto me. (i will get back to this).

Palisade "claimed" cop. If there is the slightest chance that he is indeed cop, scum would be retarded not to kill him tonight. So, by his claim, he should die tonight. To me, this is textbook distraction claiming. A real PR wouldnt want to out this early, a scum gambitting would not pick such a common role. Palisade is trying to draw the nightkill so that a real PR doesn't take the bullet. This is town move.

I will amend by assertion that a living palisade is a scum palisade. He could live for a variety of reasons, which include lots of WIFOMing.

@Wraith. I can tell you exactly why I'm not voting you. It's because only one player can be voted on at a time. I find Nicodemus more scummy than you, and voted accordingly, just as you find reg scummy but voted me because you think I'm scummier. I think this goes for several players.

[diddin]

Vote: Nicodemus

Bullshit reason to vote me.

CSL continues to be scum.

Nico is town, idk what you guys are talking about.

[xvart]

Slaxx hates post restrictions and think they detract from the game meaning the post restrction is 100% fake. There hasn't been any point stating so until now because him posting like that means I don't have to hear his illogical and non-sensical reasoning behind his reads (I asked to /Out if Mastin /Inned but caved last minute due to the player list being amazing and me being a pussy). I've seen Mastin act and fake things like this previously as town and I'm failing to see him claim cop this early on as mafia as a counter-claim (Which is likely for a role as common as cop) would lead towards his lynch.

Okay, that's good enough for me to consider the post restriction fake; but I would feel a whole lot better if this was public knowledge somewhere or was it a private conversation? Furthermore, as you pointed out, Mastin has apparently site flaked so I think mastin's motivations for doing this is irrelevant as it would actually be TwistedSpoon doing it. If TwistedSpoon felt he was under pressure due to the restriction he created it seems like a plausible claim to either snuff the suspicion and hope for no cop or no counter claim; or at the least get a claim out for his buddies to capitalize on. Why do you think the fake post restriction is mastin's master plan when you said he had site flaked and therefore not around to actually scheme?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: palisade

Don't get me wrong, I know where you're coming from the (More information is always better) angle but it's not the reasoning behind CSLs read that means anything it's his actual read, his reasoning is going to be piss poor or 'gut' regardless of his alignment thus asking him is fluff. Speaking of which I need to get to reading Nico later but I have to leave for cricket soon.

I think you are improperly assigning motive to my intentions. If CSL had come back and said "oh no guys, I didn't mean it" or "reaction fishing" or "lol stuff" that would be something worth digesting and possibly lynching over it. I'm never going to assume what someone else is going to say and therefore not bother to ask it because of that.

@xvart: I have expanded. I think the scum are Gaoth, Regfan, and Nico. Everyone else is in the other camp except for the people who really don't care for the bullshit the scum and stupid are trying to push on me.

Yes, sorry. I was reading your post in isolation and not in context of your previous post. Do you really believe that all of the scum would so heavily push the exact same agenda and the exact same methodology? Isn't that a little risky, especially if you were to flip town? I think the assumption that you are scum isn't a foregone conclusion but neither do I think it is without any merit at all; which brings me to you saying these three people are scum for trying to lynch me by exhibiting the exact same behavior when no scum team in their right mind would push through a lynch like that on Day 1.

Palisade "claimed" cop. If there is the slightest chance that he is indeed cop, scum would be retarded not to kill him tonight. So, by his claim, he should die tonight. To me, this is textbook distraction claiming. A real PR wouldnt want to out this early, a scum gambitting would not pick such a common role. Palisade is trying to draw the nightkill so that a real PR doesn't take the bullet. This is town move.

So you are saying that instead of actually scum hunting and playing the game they decided to fake a post restriction and then gambit for a NK while potentially outting a real cop? This is a town move how? And how is it a town move if it is apparently so obvious what he is doing and now everyone apparently knows that he isn't fake. If they are town they just screwed the town over by fabricating a debilitating and distracting restriction that they can't get out of now because if they do they are appear to be lying scum; plus they aren't going to get night killed now that everyone thinks they are LOL NK BAIT. Regardless, and I'm surprised I even have to say this, but there are plenty of reasons why a scum team would not target a claimed cop for a kill N1, so that line of thinking is invalid.

[Regfan]

I'll have highly limited activity for the next two days (Frends 21st/Family Events) but I'll try and make sure to get through Nicos ISO properly and read the posts above this properly as soon as possible. See you all in two days though!

[AurorusVox]

vox what do think about pali/pr

Already said I don't really buy the PR, but he's not for lynching today imo.

---

Or they're your scumbuddies not wanting to bus their buddy to a lynch D1...

So by this logic...about 8 people in this game are my scumbuddies? Or we could use Occam's Razor to cut through the WIFOM and deduce that there is no vast conspiracy surrounding my so-called scumbuddies, but that I am in fact being set up for a mislynch. I mean, scum and so-called scumhunters alike are using cheap tactics to make it look like I'm guilty.

Obv not all of them can be your buddies, but given that some of the players doing it would HAVE to be scum if you're town - since they could

easily

place what looks like a pro-town vote on you, but are NOT doing it, I have to wonder why.
If you are town then a vote on you is a good vote for a scum to make since almost everyone considers you scummy.
So why are there so few people willing to go through with it? Some of them are town with stronger scumspects elsewhere, but some must be scum, and this is what leads me to conclude that they're wary of bussing their buddy to a lynch on D1.

---

@xvart - the rest were included to show that even if the scummy people are scummy townies, there are plenty of others who could fit the bill. Yes I know this lessens the impact when looking to people OTHER THAN Wraith, but I think it's a legitimate concern when considering Wraith himself.

[Timeater]

Or they're your scumbuddies not wanting to bus their buddy to a lynch D1...

So by this logic...about 8 people in this game are my scumbuddies? Or we could use Occam's Razor to cut through the WIFOM and deduce that there is no vast conspiracy surrounding my so-called scumbuddies, but that I am in fact being set up for a mislynch. I mean, scum and so-called scumhunters alike are using cheap tactics to make it look like I'm guilty.

Why are you still crying? The lynch has obviously changed to Nico.

You sound a little more genuine I'll give you that.

What are these cheap tactics you speak of?

CSL continues to be scum.

Nico is town, idk what you guys are talking about.

Replace scum with useless.

Already said I don't really buy the PR, but he's not for lynching today imo.

I dont care if you buy it or not. Do you think it belongs in this game? Would Slaxx make a dumb PR role like that? Do you think his restriction could be a consequence of another player or do you think its innate? Is Reg's hypothesis correct?