Prozacs Basic Theme 3 - GAME OVER

[StrangerCoug]

mykonian's post, with this playerlist, makes me ask the following questions about meta, to all of the players.

1. How often do you feel you use meta as an argument in Mafia?

2. Do you prefer proactive (using as a reason to investigate a player's actions) or reactive (using to backup/contradict what a player did) meta?

3. How often are you to research meta on a player whose meta you don't know in the game?

4. Do you prefer to use meta to defend a player as being town, or attack them for being scum?

Meta is overrated. A good player will play about the same way as town and scum.

Vote: No lynch

Voting No Lynch on Day 1? The hell?

VOTE: Ellibereth

[StrangerCoug]

I dunno.
I have no clue who anything is.

Then get a clue. It's called scumhunting.

[StrangerCoug]

Ellibereth, if you're trying to use scare tactics, they're not working. You are asking several people for claims in lieu of proper scumhunting, which is scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

Ellibereth, if you're trying to use scare tactics, they're not working. You are asking several people for claims in lieu of proper scumhunting, which is scummy.

The bad thing is Stranger has sucked this much as town.

Read brotherhood of wolf.

I don't give a damn about The Brotherhood of the Wolf. Let's worry about right now. Right now Ellibereth is implying people are scummy without actually giving us evidence that they are.

Why does he want Bunnylover to claim?
Why does he want me to claim?
Why did he want Nocmen to claim?
Why does he want Katsuki to claim?
Why does he want Bogre to claim?

None of those are clear from his posts. I am aware of a Nocmen wagon, but he seems to have merely nudged it, which actually worsens it as opportunistic.

More importantly, if he thinks we are scummy, which is implied by all this "Claim! Claim! Claim!" stuff, why is his vote sitting idle?

[StrangerCoug]

Because you're all fucking scummy as hell.

You don't see it because you're SCUM, or-like I said-you're just a BAD PLAYER.

He can't make people claim just by switching his vote around, the threat will be lost.

The threat of his FUCKING GUN.

So, are you gonna claim, or are you going to be the first that just fucking dies without claiming?

Neither. I'm taking a third option—calling you his scumbuddy. You should know by now that Mafia does not work by taking other people's word for it. This is not the Salem witch trials. You must demonstrate how your suspects are scummy.

The only two things I've done prior to my being called scummy are deny that meta is useful and attack Ellibereth for voting No Lynch on Day 1. If anybody cares to tell me how either is scummy, then I'd like to hear it.

[StrangerCoug]

well I'm patiently waiting for an explanation as to why I'm scum here

Welcome aboard the boat.

Stranger, I think it was fairly obvious that Ellie's no lynch option was just a joke. The fact that you are trying to make it in something so much more is scummy.

I actually have something to defend against now. Thank you.

I have a poor sense of humor and a lot of things have to be spelled out for me. If the no lynch vote is a joke, then that part of the case is dismissed, but why Ellibereth went and asked claims from about a quarter of the game with no apparent justification is still in question.

#1 sounds like a lot of interesting flavor for just a townie; #2 sounds like an alternate wincon.

This I agree with. It reminds me a lot of SoS mafia and Zoraster's third party claim.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nocman

Your reason is flavor and meta and not his actual scumminess?

*peer*

Good point.

UNVOTE: Ellibereth
VOTE: xvart

[StrangerCoug]

Just my thoughts.

Possibly because Stranger is his scum partner.

Suspect 1: Reck
Suspect 2: Bogre
Suspect 3: Ehhhh, maybe xvart. I'm afarid to base it off the scum 3x in a row thing cuz that's not likely to be done on purpose, I don't think, unless xvart requested it.

So SC is my scumpartner, but he doesn't make it to the list of your suspects? ?

Yupyup. Counter-bussing right here. I'd be happy with a lynch on either Blackberry or Bogre.

Bogre's not that high on my scumlist since he's doing a good job of scumhunting as far as I am concerned, but the more I think about Bogre's vote on Ellibereth and how much it reminds me of policy lynching, which I'm against, the more plausible it sounds. I highly doubt Ellibereth, Blackberry, and Bogre are all scum but the first two are pretty solid.

[StrangerCoug]

xRECKONERx's recent actions stand out to me as town right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Buh-bye scummers.

I don't understand this post. What's going on?

[StrangerCoug]

Buh-bye scummers.

I don't understand this post. What's going on?

I attempted to blow-up the forum.

Bombing-attempt thwarted.

Now I must continue playing these 'mafia' game.

GRRRRRRRRRR!

Joke or no joke, this is clearly an attempt to create a distraction from scumhunting.

Myko, do you like bread?

Stop asking pointless questions.

UNVOTE: xvart
VOTE: Blackberry

[StrangerCoug]

I was going to ask what's up with the sudden mykonian wagon, but he is responding poorly to it. Just because there was no wagon on you on Day 1 doesn't mean you won't get a wagon on Day 2, and if you're scummy enough to warrant it you need a defense prepared. I don't see one. In addition, his votes on xRECKONERx and me are laughable.

While I suspect some of the people early in the mykonian wagon are bussing, I feel my vote justified on flailing scum.

VOTE: mykonian

[StrangerCoug]

I have. What I gathered is in my post.

Is anything else important on which you want my opinion?

[StrangerCoug]

Oh. Thanks.

UNVOTE: mykonian

Looks like I'm going to have to look closer at things...

[StrangerCoug]

I'm actually feeling Fate's call for a Katsuki wagon right now. #475 is god-awful.

VOTE: Katsuki

[StrangerCoug]

If we have a vigilante, would that person shoot Bunnylover in the head please?

[StrangerCoug]

Why does scooby make me want to kill myself?

[StrangerCoug]

Lol who ever said I thought you were SCUM Katsuki?

I just wanted your claim outed so you could HOPEFULLY draw a scum NK, but now you can draw a VIG kill instead HEHAEHAHEHAEHAH

Unvote:
Vote: XVART

K LETS LYNCH REAL SCUM NOW

I'm confused by this post. Did you think Katsuki is scum or not when you voted him? If you didn't, then why did you make an active attempt to out his role? This is the same problem I had with Ellibereth.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, I'm done here. scooby is clearly making no effort to scumhunt.

UNVOTE: Katsuki
VOTE: scooby

xvart is plausible as scum. I understand the case, but I have bigger suspects.

[StrangerCoug]

OMGUS =/= scumhunting. Point me to a case of yours where the case doesn't boil down to "wah, wah, wah, you voted me."

[StrangerCoug]

OK, scooby, your stronger case is on mykonian. Now that that lynch option is out due to the mason claim, that leaves dramonic, which is kind of iffy. You ask him how you can be scum and help scum at the same time when the logic behind it is simple: everyone is trying to help their own side. You also try to paint him as a bit naive.

[StrangerCoug]

I read them.

[StrangerCoug]

I call hammer vote.

[StrangerCoug]

I already claimed hammer, CSL, but if you're available before 3:00 PM MDT, go ahead.

[StrangerCoug]

I think this is overkill, but I want to make damn sure he's dead.

UNVOTE: scooby
VOTE: xvart

[StrangerCoug]

I will look at the game tomorrow afternoon. Right now I have errands to run.

[StrangerCoug]

scooby still looks terrible, but something I caught from mykonian may actually save him:

How THE FUCK am I xvart's buddy?

Nocmen, you better start making sense because I'm not liking anything recent from you.

Dramonic OTOH just become CONFIRMED SCUM.

dramonic, why did you kill him?

Lol at scum thinking trekker had information regarding dramonic.

VOTE: DRAMONIC

the one that the mafia killed. i'm implying he's mafia.

Now then, once we've established there is a logical fail in that little shit attempt of Scooby, can we get back to lynching him.

So dram is seriously defending himself by claiming

"no that one wasn't the mafias kill"

?

Don't care how you did it, Trekkers dead is odd, and scooby found out why.

vote dram

Can we lynch this scum, fate? Please?

VOTE: dramonic

Still trying to sort out Bunnylover, but I'm not oblivious to the recent attack on him.

[StrangerCoug]

Dead is dead based on available information.

[StrangerCoug]

To make a feeble attempt at looking like a vigilante.

[StrangerCoug]

You asked why you'd kill someone you knew was lying, didn't you?

Any two ways about it, WIFOM is not helping you.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Am I correct in understanding you that the methods are consistent with the same killing role/faction but are otherwise arbitrary (i.e. you're using shot/stabbed because you feel like it and could easily use suffocation/drowning if you wanted?)

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug:

As I understood Porochaz's answer from before, he said that while the flavour might change, the method (or weapon type, if you prefer) remains consistent by faction.

For instance, an SK might chop you into bits, eviscerate you, slice your wrists, or cut your throat. But he'd always be using a knife. A scum hit might be a tiny little red hole barely visible on her wine red dress, or a splattered mess from a shotgun, or a neat hole right between the eyes, but it would always be a gun. So you can tell the difference between the faction hits and identify them as belonging to one or the other even though they might vary a lot in flavour.

I'm sure Porochaz will let us know if this is wrong, but that's how I understood what he said.

Mod: Am I correct in understanding you that the methods are consistent with the same killing role/faction but are otherwise arbitrary (i.e. you're using shot/stabbed because you feel like it and could easily use suffocation/drowning if you wanted?)

yes

OK. He does the kill flavor like I do then.

[StrangerCoug]

dramonic still needs to go, and scooby's last post is making my read on him tilt back towards scum.

[StrangerCoug]

dramonic still needs to go, and scooby's last post is making my read on him tilt back towards scum.

Did you read the game Bunnylover linked?

No, and I only care about this game.

[StrangerCoug]

I can make sense out of Banshee thinking that Oman got a guilty on Bunnylover. Given that Oman did not flip an even-night cop specifically, that puts a lot of doubt on the latter's claim.

VOTE: Bunnylover

[StrangerCoug]

As much as it pains me since I spent most of the day thinking he was scum, Fate is town =/.
By this result, Myokian is town. I won't have another investigation power till the next night.

My vote isn't moving. Sorry, but there were better investigation targets.

Nope. I made a mistake replacing into this game; as I said, I had no meta on Fate and I really really dislike his playstyle. I find it almost impossible to play with someone who is screeching and yelling and has no logical point to anything he does. I can't even tell if he's town or scum and I HATE that claiming scum thing. The person who claimed scum in the game I mentioned (link available on request, I think one person in this game actually was in that game with me) was supposedly blacklisted by about half the game, and I feel the same way about Fate.

So no, I would welcome being lynched. I take my commitment to the game seriously and I think my contribution level up til now has borne that out, but I would welcome having an out from the game that wouldn't involve asking for another replacement. I think Porochaz has had to put up with enough in that regard already.

So nope. please do lynch me. I have no patience for this pretend-VI stuff and my lynch might serve to prove that it's not helpful to town and actually prevent it from continuing as a meme on this site, because I'm very sick of it now.

Thanks!

Asking to be lynched, no matter what you are, helps the people aligned against you. Either do what you can with what you're able to get, even if Fate is unreadable to you, or replace out and allow someone more capable of handling the game to play.

[StrangerCoug]

I gave no alternate choices because I didn't have time to, and you claim to already have a result on the first person that comes to my mind anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

I am against a massclaim right now. While I'm most in favor of Bunnylover dead, I wonder what Fate's up to.

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug:

Do you see the pointlessness of trying to make a coherent argument/case in this particular thread? Have you, yourself, attempted it?

Do you think a better, more competent player who actually wanted to post content and analysis would do better in it?

It's more difficult, but it's not pointless. Fate is Fate. He doesn't seem to care about perpetually having a screw loose. If you're not going to try, I'm going to support the wagon on you.

Better idea.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bunny

If it's anything but an odd-night cop flip, Masons are shite, lynch them.

The hell!? You're going to condemn the masons if Bunnylover is not an odd-night cop? For this to make remotely any sense requires Bunnylover, Fate, and mykonian to all be scum, which I don't think is true.

UNVOTE: BunnyLover
VOTE: David Xanatos

I don't want them turning to mislynch someone else.

I had never played with Fate before and basically I don't see a point to my existence in this game. Town is following Fate fairly blindly in my view, any attempt to question this is met with an OMGUS attack times two, and there's no real sense of logic or argument. I'm pretty sure town will either win or lose more efficiently without my help on this, and my playstyle in no way is compatible with this shrieking cursing attack that follows anything Fate doesn't like.

In short, I'm not the sort of player who enjoys this kind of constant abuse and I prefer to just be lynched in preference to whatever power-role townie Fate decides is the scum du jour next.

I am not blindly following Fate; I've mostly been going off on my own tangent. Fate did a complete 180 on Bunnylover while I'm still questioning her claim. Yeah, I believe the masons are town, but the investigation was wasted on someone who was widely considered such.

[StrangerCoug]

The complete turnaround on Bunnylover is making me scratch my head, but it's not serious enough to doubt that you two are masons.

[StrangerCoug]

David Xanatos is our best option here. I'm pretty sure he and Bunnylover are of opposing alignments and the way he's dealing with the claimed living cop and the masons points toward him being scum.

[StrangerCoug]

I agree that Bunnylover should investigate mykonian tonight. Right now Fate flipping non-mason has a wrench thrown in everything right now.

[StrangerCoug]

There are 2 scum left

, so Bunny lying is a possibility.
You having picked Fate and Myko to kill as SK is WIFOM.
Fate was a townread in addition to having an innocent on him. You are a scumread and have an innocent. The innocent does not make you conftown.

Ok, I'm living on 2.5 hours of sleep which are already too long gone, but eh, where did we get that setup information?

Good point.

VOTE: TheJakalope

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: V/LA, suspected flu.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Out of V/LA.

Personally, I think Mastermind of Sin is winning his argument against Banshee, but I still hold to my The Jakalope vote and I can see dramonic-scum too.

[StrangerCoug]

Lol @ anyone thinking I'm scum. Especially with Dram. wat.

My vote on Dram stays though.

Give me a reason I shouldn't think you're scum

I'm not scum.

Bunny, investigate me tonight.

inb4 godfather/SK

*whistles, pretending not to take notice of this post*

[StrangerCoug]

I like StrangerCoug for scum. I didn't even know he was in the game until I checked the playerlist just now. A quick look at his ISO reveals that he's on the Jakwagon which is bad, and he tried to set up a one-two mislynch on DavidX and Bunny yesterday with this post:

David Xanatos is our best option here. I'm pretty sure he and Bunnylover are of opposing alignments and the way he's dealing with the claimed living cop and the masons points toward him being scum.

I'm also suspecting a possible SC/Bunny scumteam, because he made the comment above and then didn't even bother following it up the next day after David came up town. He just used it to build momentum on the DavidX lynch and then dropped it.

Playing with multiple theories is fine, but I cannot be both Bunnylover's scumbuddy and trying to mislynch her. Which do you think is more likely?

StrangerCoug and Dramonic are both V/LA due to illness as far as I am aware.

I announced that I was out of V/LA and therefore feeling better the RL night after I declared it.

Dude, it's D5. Absolutely nothing that I could say hasn't been said. I'm not going to "satisfy" you by any means, only solidify my reads in one direction or the other.

Reiterating your case is sometimes necessary. The answer may be "look at post X", but the answer is never "screw you" or anything to that effect.

FoS: chkflip

[StrangerCoug]

StrangerCoug, it's a fallacy for you to try to tie your own alignment to Bunny's like that. It's completely illogical to try to isolate Bunny's own alignment based on your actions, since yours are scummy regardless of Bunny's.

I did not say or imply that Bunnylover and I necessarily are the same alignment—she's not confirmed to me, I'm not confirmed to her, and for me to suggest anything indicating otherwise is absurd. You presented us with two conflicting theories. Since this provides you with a backup if you're wrong, it's fine, but I was trying to get at what alignment you think Bunnylover is. Assuming I am scum, then if Bunnylover is town, then I tried to get her mislynched according to you, and if she is scum then you think she is by buddy. (She could also be a third party, but your posts don't say anything about you thinking that, so I'm ignoring it for the purposes of this argument.)

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not suggesting we kill Bunny to find out your alignment.

Post where I was suggesting this either. All I wanted was your stance on Bunnylover. I understood that you think I am scum either way, so that's why I've been treating that as a constant.

[StrangerCoug]

...Yeah. I'm not liking how chkflip is reacting to Nocmen right now, especially with the flippant #1362.

VOTE: chkflip

[StrangerCoug]

About ready to fall sleep right now, but to answer Mastermind of Sin's questions, avoiding wagons, be that xvart's or anyone else's, was not really a conscious thought. The wagons weren't on people that stood out that much to me.

[StrangerCoug]

I still think lynching chkflip is the answer, but Mastermind of Sin might be doable as well, especially since he doesn't have the best of cases on me and admitted that I'm "easy".

[StrangerCoug]

I still think lynching chkflip is the answer, but Mastermind of Sin might be doable as well, especially since he doesn't have the best of cases on me and admitted that I'm "easy".

Why aren't you easy? Your main scumhunting has come from the stuff with DX, and your vote jumping, espeically early with regards to elli and xvart, seems like distancing.

I mean "easy" as a disparaging term. Scum would rather not lynch their own and if there is a way for them to get out of it, they will. They will only put in as much effort as we make them. If it doesn't take much work to tie a rope around my neck yet I flip town, it will reflect poorly on the people who pushed my lynch, hence why I consider Mastermind of Sin calling me an easy lynch scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

Additionally, there's no way in hell I would have killed Banshee, he was actually a decent lynch target. If I was scum I would have killed Bunnylover or myko.

Can you say WIFOM?

UNVOTE: chkflip
VOTE: Mastermind of Sin

I personally think Bunnylover is still on the scummy side, but beside my point.

[StrangerCoug]

You seem to miss that the key point is that you do such a large analysis right at the start of the day. Town can do it at any point. Scum do it at the start of the day to get targets for a mislynch.

When else was I supposed to do it? Why the hell would I delay it to post it in the middle of the day? That doesn't even make sense.

The fact that you have problems with me thinking chkflip is odd to me. There wouldn't be any sane scum who would try to lynch me yesterday. It's just going to make you look bad. However, I did my share of leading and poking, and I can totally see a town be paranoid about that, since it's quite out of his control. Chkflip voting me doesn't at all make that I have to think chkflip scum.

Wait, so you think chkflip is town because he was paranoid about you, but you completely ignore the fact that he just parked his vote on you until he could hop onto the Jakobvtownwagon without any reasoning? He even TOLD us that he thought Jak was town and voted to lynch him ANYWAY! And you don't find that suspicious AT ALL!?

Additionally, there's no way in hell I would have killed Banshee, he was actually a decent lynch target. If I was scum I would have killed Bunnylover or myko.

Can you say WIFOM?

UNVOTE: chkflip
VOTE: Mastermind of Sin

I personally think Bunnylover is still on the scummy side, but beside my point.

1) Can you say OMGUS?

No, because that does not apply here. You're trying to stave off accusations that you killed Banshee by saying you'd go after Bunnylover or mykonian. You cannot defend yourself doing X by saying you would do Y instead (although, in this case, X is simply an unproven theory). Unless you can prove my case on you as illegitimate, I am not guilty of OMGUS.

2) Everything in this game is WIFOM. That's the whole point of mafia. You can't just call "WIFOM" and use that as your vote reasoning. That shit is so 2005. Present us with a legitimate argument as to why I would have killed Banshee specifically, otherwise GTFO.

I cannot present such an argument as that would require me to read your mind. For all I know, it's arbitrary. I can tell you why scum might not want to kill the obvious target, though: Doctors. Watchers. Scum feels like throwing a red herring. All of those, and probably a few more that aren't coming to my mind right now, are plausible reasons why you could have killed Banshee in lieu of Bunnylover or mykonian, but the operative phrase is "in lieu of".

[StrangerCoug]

I only meant to quote the part of MoS where he addresses me, but oh well.

[StrangerCoug]

So basically you can't come up with any particular reason why *I* (as opposed to anyone else who might be scum) would have killed Banshee, but because I claimed that I didn't kill Banshee, you conclude I must have? That totally makes sense.

It's entirely possible that you didn't; there were two kills on Night 4, the person lynched Day 5 flipped non-vigilante town, and only one person was killed on Night 5. I can make heads and tails out of Banshee being vigged and we agree that you did not send a vig kill on her. However, your justification for not killing Banshee—that you would instead have killed other specific players if you were scum—doesn't sit all that well with me. To deny killing someone tells us little more than to deny being scum—the former says only that you did not vig that player that night, which does very little to narrow down the possibilities. To claim that you would've killed someone else as scum isn't of much use either: if we knew someone was going to get nightkilled, we'd take that into account. I lost The Sims 3 Mafia because a player was watching my SK target, a claimed cop.

I may have interpreted your request as an explanation of why you would kill Banshee as opposed to you killing someone else and not as opposed to someone else killing you, but I am still unable to answer without reading your mind. Stop being unreasonable.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't see how massclaim can hurt.

[StrangerCoug]

I am Josh Stevens, a high roller. I won a nice chunk of change here the other day, so I've gotten into the high rollers club. Personally, I think everybody here is a snob, but I'm bored and I need something to do.

Katsuki, you're next.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry. Awhile back, so I forgot it.

Who's left?

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry.
N1 Dram - Innocent.
N2 Fate -

blocked, but faked claim Town on him.

N3 Myokian - blocked, not confident enough to say a read.

I can buy an accidental misnumbering, but the red is plenty for me to go on. You do not lie as town.

UNVOTE: Mastermind of Sin
VOTE: Bunnylover

Also,

mod: You and the other players may have noticed this, and I'm still not going to declare a V/LA, but during the workweek it's easiest for me to post in the evenings MDT right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Pardon if this is in the blue team's QT (busy checking other stuff right now), but who killed me?

[StrangerCoug]

Go nth my nomination for Mastermind of Sin.