Mafia 48: Himalayan Mafia - Game over!

[HezLucky]

Can we lynch tidus now and MoS tomorrow?

please?

[Mastermind of Sin]

spring break ends a week from yesterday. also, see my previous post.

So wait, are you saying that during spring break you can post MORE, or post LESS?

Sorry, I am coming back to do more analysis, but work is kicking my ass right now - boss has been out of the office for a week.

I can post

LESS

when I'm on spring break, because I don't have as much access to a computer.

[LoudmouthLee]

So, you sign up for a game when you're going to be absent for the first 2 weeks?

[Mastermind of Sin]

MOS: If you're not going to lurk, could you perhaps comment on some things that have happened so far in this game and actually help us find scum?

So far, we've:

Had a discussion on who might be most likely to be recruited night one

Had a mid-sized bandwagon on DG that died down

Had a bandwagon on tidus

And a few other people were voted for different reasons.

Could you perhaps comment on at least some of those things, let us know what you think about the tidus and/or DG, or tell us who you think looks scummy, or disagree with someone, or something? I mean, you are posting more now, but you still haven't done anything that looks even remotly like an attempt to figure out who the scum might or might not be.

First of all, I already stated that I think speculating on recruits is pointless. While it may have been a good way to start conversation, that conversation wasn't going anywhere and we needed to move on.

Secondly, due to my limited time available for posting, which has to be spread across all my games, I have barely had time to defend myself, much less analyze the thread and post about suspicions. However, I have a bit of time now, so I will address your concerns.

As for DG, his choice of Hez seemed a little odd, but I don't think it deserved such a fast bandwagon, so I'm more inclined to look at some of the people who jumped on it without much to say as scum rather than DG himself (i.e. creampuffeater, who jumped on an already growing bandwagon with a supposedly random vote. Since DG already had like 4-5 votes at the time (if I counted correctly), this makes me a little suspicious).

Tidus, on the otherhand, has raised my suspicions. When he FOSed DG, it gave me the impression of scum who wanted to further a bandwagon without actually committing a vote to it yet. In addition, he uses the same post to voice suspicion against TheCessPit, then unvotes. Only after he is called on it does he put an FOS back on TheCessPit. If he had actually been thinking it was worth an FOS, he would've done it in the first place, i think. I also believe that, while I don't necessarily agree with all the reasons for voting me, I find anyone who votes me for saying "*under the radar*" to be highly suspect, since it was quite obviously designed for a purpose. It's not like I

accidentally

said I was under the radar and forgot to say anything else... When Tidus voted LmL, he quoted a post that talked about the DG bandwagon dying and wanting people to vote me. However, Tidus responds to the quoted post by talking about his vote on TheCessPit, which doesn't seem relevant to the quoted material. Tidus, would you care to explain why you quoted that material yet not really ever addressing it? The only point where you came close was saying that you didn't want to join my bandwagon yet, which once again gives them impression of wanting to further a bandwagon without committing a vote yet. Further on, Tidus votes for me on the premise that I have not defended myself yet. However, when I do find the time to defend myself, he still says that I have not been contributing, even though I have responded directly to the issues against me. In addition, he attempts to fabricate a reason why I have not posted much lately, even though I already notified everyone that I cannot post much because I am on spring break. While several of these actions are only mildly scummy at best, and several people have done the same thing, it is the grand combination of scummy actions by Tidus that lead me to

vote: Tidus

[creampuffeater]

I am feeling better, and can now think about mafia. That was sortof fast recovery. I really have to agree with Hez here and say Tidus today and then look at MoS tomarrow. Tidus has just had a lot of bad logic. Even though most of you want to kill MoS, I just think that you are just mad he is on spring break and cant post much, and is a little scummy but not all that much.

Vote: Tidus

[DrippingGoofball]

Whoa, MOS, when you put it this way...

...but I hate to be playing into Hezlucky's hand, oh, does it ever irk me!

But MOS's argument about Tidus are just too convincing. Good job. My overall impression is that of a "nervous scum."

He's nervous scum. I can smell it. Not easy to put into words but...

...the orgy of FOS's raises alarm bells!

vote: tidus

[Yosarian2]

Thank you, MoS.

Yeah...I had kind of a bad feeling about Tidus's last post, as well. Most of it was just kind a wierd summery of the whole game, but this part was especally odd:

LoudMouthLee stated a new bandwagon to pressure MastermindofSin. Many people jump on rapidly. MastermindofSin contributes nothing to the conversation other than saying he was acting scummy to raise conversation.

My scum List: MastermindofSin, LoudMouthLee, HezLucky

Right now I think MastermindofSin isn't saying anything because he knows he's been caught and is trying to wait the town out. The alternative is he is town and isn't contributing in any useful way and got called on it.

I'll stay voting MastermindofSin for right now until someone convinces me otherwise.

The comment about "MOS knows he's been caught and is trying to wait the town out" is rather odd, but the thing that bugs me the most is the "scum list".

Tidus, why are you saying that you think MOS is scum, AND you think LML is scum for starting a bandwagon on MOS? And why did you put "HezLucky" on your "scum list" without giving any kind of reason at all?

[neongrey]

I admittedly have been skimming over a lot of Tidus' posts, but looking at them now...

I really don't like setting up a complete 'scum list', especially on day one. I'm gonna do a more thorough re-read, then figure out what I'm gonna do later.

[Norinel]

kirbyphreak replaces logicticus.

Vote Count:

Mastermind Of Sin- 6 (LoudMouthLee, JamesSparrow, Twomz, Fritzler, tidus_of_zanarkand, Mr. Flay)
tidus_of_zanarkand- 3 (HezLucky, Mastermind of Sin, creampuffeater)
TheCesspit- 2 (TSAGod, Dead Rikimaru)
DrippingGoofball- 1 (Fuldu)
RandomActs- 1 (Thoth)
Fuldu- 1 (broomhead)
HezLucky- 1 (DrippingGoofball)

Not voting (

3

6): kirbyphreak, Mini Neo, neongrey, RandomActs, TheCesspit, Yosarian2

11 to lynch.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Let me explain carefully so you understand:

Okay, the arguement is that a lurker-vote does not make you pro-town?

No.
The problem is not what you did. (in this case, voting)
The problem is the reason you gave: "Im going to do this to look pro-town".

You said:

and because I need to give some sort of show of Pro-town behaviour:

That's the reason of TSAGod's vote on you.(but not the reason of my vote)

You said you wanted to look pro-town.

That part is what made him vote you. Not who you voted and if he was a lurker or not.

So, why am I voting you?
I'm voting you because everytime you defended you omitted the real reason he voted you.

What were you defending from?
He said:

I will now make up for my lack of posts so far with some sort of sho of Pro-town behaviour:

It was obviously not

the reason

of his vote. It was a humorous comment added to his post.

Later commenting his post you said:

So your voting for me for the same reason as I'm voting for MasterOfSin?

Odd.

It makes no sense. He's been lurking, and then votes for me as a lurker,

Okay, the arguement is that a lurker-vote does not make you pro-town?

You see?
Although he mentioned that your vote was only a lurker vote, the scummy statement he found was:

and because I need to give some sort of show of Pro-town behaviour:

And for never assuming this ws the reason of the vote (while everyone else seemed to understand what he was meaning) that's why I voted you.
Did you really fail to understand what he meant?
Did you understand and are pretending you didn't so you can avoid explaining?
That's what I wanted to know by voting you.
Because pretending to be ignorant of what he meant in order to avoid giving an explanation is even much more scummy than saying "I'm doing this because I need to look pro-town"

Understood now the reason of his vote?
Understood now the reason of my vote?

Other point:

That wasn't my comment. I just feel it's odd that two people who've contributed very little have voted for me

No.
First of all postcount is different from contribution.
You can make 100 posts of nonsense and random accusations and switching from bandwagon to bandwagon and you will not be contributing to town.
You can also do all of that without reading, just see who has more votes and vote him too. Which is what many people do, and since those people have a bigger number of posts you probably consider they post more "content".
One can say there is more content in my few posts than all of yours together, Mr. "I'm voting him to look pro-town".
How is this posting content?

with little else to add apart from commentary on my actions. No-one elses.

I'm paying attention to everything that is going on.
I'm not going to vote someone just because he is being accused by many, I'm paying attention to all opinions posted, but I am also aware that some of them may be from scum trying to lynch innocents, so I'm very careful whith what I say and who I accuse.
I don't need to have a certain number of posts to vote you. Or to question your doings. And is very suspicious that instead of adressing them directly you keep questioning who can or can't question you.
The number of arguments from a person does not influence the validity of each argument, and it's a really suspicious that your defense is based on quantity.

Reading lots and commenting little looks the same as reading little and commenting little.

No.
Reading lots mean you know lots
Reading little means you know little.
Reading little and commenting lots means you post nonsense
Reading lots and posting lots means either that you have lots to say or that you speak lots of useless things "to look protown"
Reading lots and posting little means you have less time than you would like to but is aware of whats going on and that everytime you post it will actually be content.

[Twomz]

I'm getting banned from my compy til further notice, so my postings will be far and inbetween (probably not til monday or tuesday... if then). Sorry for the inconvience.

[Mastermind of Sin]

So, you sign up for a game when you're going to be absent for the first 2 weeks?

i hadn't planned to be inactive last week, but a lot of stuff came up at school last minute. It was lame, but I had to do it. As for this week, I was hoping for a little more activity, but I have college stuff to do this week, so I've been really busy.

[tidus_of_zanarkand]

Well I'm gonna start out with a

unvote: Mastermind of Sin

and

UnFoS: everyone

until I can reevaluate all the posts.

Welcome back Mastermind of Sin. Since you have posted more and gotten actual content into your posts, I consider you to be SIGNIFIGANTLY less scummy for now. I don't completely buy your *under the radar* plan but it seems to have worked combined with you posting more often satisfies me for now.

Next thank you for pointing out the flaws in my potential scum list. I had different reasons for suspecting Mastermind of Sin and LoudMouthLee but didn't realize the unlikelyhood of them being scum together with the later voting the formrt. My new scum lists will be in the order they are most likely to be scum.

Now the only arguement I have been able to see against me was stated in post 100 since the next post made a note to self to examine that it when one of the people I suspected or myself was lynched. That I'm fine with. Later someone brings up a theory that if I am scum then one of the people I have listed is scum. Its true that if I was scum then that would be a scum ploy. But then out of nowhere it goes from me being a suspect to HezLucky stating his theory only works if I am lynched. He doesn't back up his thoery with evidence. So far all I have seen is nothing other than a thoery or idea used to suspect me.

If there is any actual evidence against me please step forward now.

[Mastermind of Sin]

my vote DEFINITELY stays after this post. You unvote me because I'm contributing now, yet you OBVIOUSLY did NOT read my post, since about 50% of the post was evidence AGAINST you, which you said you had not seen any of except for one OTHER post.

[Yosarian2]

Tidus: I asked you

why

you were suspicious of LML and espeally of HezLucky. You still have not answered my question.

[kirbyphreak]

I will be re-reading for a while. Just letting you know I'm here.

[TheCesspit]

Let me explain carefully so you understand:

Thanks.

Okay, the arguement is that a lurker-vote does not make you pro-town?

No.
The problem is not what you did. (in this case, voting)
The problem is the reason you gave: "Im going to do this to look pro-town".

You said:

and because I need to give some sort of show of Pro-town behaviour:

That's the reason of TSAGod's vote on you.(but not the reason of my vote)

You said you wanted to look pro-town.

That part is what made him vote you. Not who you voted and if he was a lurker or not.

So, why am I voting you?
I'm voting you because everytime you defended you omitted the real reason he voted you.

Okay, I'm snipping the rest because I finally get it. The pro-town was a throwaway comment. However, it's landed me in acres of trouble. I am being slow, as I really didn't understand that was it. Realy really didn't.

Now, this is where I get jumped on. Stupid votes coming in. I just explained my reason for coming straight onto the idea of voting MasterOfSin badly.

Reading lots and commenting little looks the same as reading little and commenting little.

No.
Reading lots mean you know lots
Reading little means you know little.
Reading little and commenting lots means you post nonsense
Reading lots and posting lots means either that you have lots to say or that you speak lots of useless things "to look protown"
Reading lots and posting little means you have less time than you would like to but is aware of whats going on and that everytime you post it will actually be content.

No. In this case I think you miss my point. If someone makes a few comments, regardless of their quality, it does not tell us if they've read a lot or a little. It merely tells us that they've read enough to make a good comment. It is impossible to tell from the amount someone posts if they are reading a lot or a little. Thats it. You do have to judge the content of the post.

UnFos: Dead Rikimaru

Just one angry townie. In fact, I'm almost certain he's Town, as a Scummer would try and use my idiocy for their own ends.

[Mr. Flay]

Alright, let's finally try this:

neongrey - first post, susp. of Mini Neo. Largely silent soon after that.
DG: Fecking weird, but her misunderstanding of the way recruitment works is a point in favor of her not being one of the original 3 mafioso. Targets HezLucky out of the gate, and continues to do so up til now. I honestly don't get this idea that she somehow tried to "clear" fritzler, though.
Fritzler, on the other hand, knows how the recruitment works. Possible point against. Also as other players have pointed out, his playstyle is fairly difficult to get a read on.
TheCesspit pops in and says he's watching.
broomhead likewise doesn't understand how recruitment works. Ditto JamesSparrow, although at this point it's becoming something people can just parrot to feign ignorance.
HezLucky shows up and says that he'd pick LML as the most likely recruit. No comment on DG, which is interesting.
Twomz comments that Fritzler is likely to die before the end of the game, so he can be tested later. This is an interesting point, in that with no power/protective roles, it's unlikely many of the "good" players will live very long. Mafia can pick them off one at a time over the nights, if they don't get them during the day. Lee has the same idea later, and says the recruit may in fact be a relative newbie. Any of the "top tier" players who live to endgame are going to be naturally suspicious.
Thoth pops in and votes RA for voting the non-playing CoolBot. Not sure what to think about this idea...
The bandwagon on DG gets to 6 or 7 before people start slowing down, and CessPit, Lee, & DG make the comment "there's mafia on that wagon!" Hardly earthshattering, but a point of common logic. Common logic may equal common allegiance, once we start to know what side people are on.
Cesspit then amends to say that DG could be one of the "at least one mafia" on the wagon. This just strikes me as weird.
neongrey seems to be largely flying under the radar at this point, as is broomhead and TSAGod. Of course, MoS is explicitly in "visible stealth" mode...
tidus, then, simultaneously accuses Cesspit of "playing it safe" and unvotes him. What the heck?
Cesspit makes a good point about noengrey's "pressure votes", when there's nothing to give up to a bandwagon. No role name, no power roles to be lost. All a bandwagon gets you here is psychological reaction. Unfortunately a good player is going to be largely immune to this, and a bad one will give up "scum tells" whether they're actually scum or not. Not sure where I'm going with this, but the whole game is different than most...
I don't think Cesspit's "some show of pro-town behavior" is really that scummy. It's sort of an odd statement to make, but it's too obvious to be a real slipup (granted, I may be biased since I'm playing worth crap in Clue right now, and being suspected for it). I'm actually more suspicious of TSAGod for mocking it in placing his vote on Cesspit; humor/relaxation is easy for scum, especially lurkers who come back to vote.
DG's defense of tidus is very interesting, however. I'm liking my early vote more and more now...
Fritzler inexplicably jumps on the stalled MoS bandwagon, ignoring tidus completely.
MoS finally shows up.
A tidus wagon develops like a steamroller. While there's plenty of reason for it, it seems similarly suspicious to the one that landed on DG earlier in the Day. Looking at the counts, it's interesting that exactly zero people voted for both players (Fritzler, Fuldu, myself, Twomz, LoudmouthLee, creampuffeater voted for DG initially, and HezLucky, Mastermind of Sin, DG voted for tidus so far). Scum spreading out their votes? Too early to tell.

At this point I'd support a lynch on DG, MoS, tidus, or TSAGod. Since my existing vote is on the game leader, no reason to change it now, but those are my FoSes. Sorry it took me so long to get to them...

[JamesSparrow]

because MoS has returned and made a lot of good points in his post (especially those against tidus) i will

unvote MoS

and i'm going to reserve my vote until i reread everything taking into account the points MoS just made about Tidus.

[Fritzler]

Fritzler, on the other hand, knows how the recruitment works. Possible point against. Also as other players have pointed out, his playstyle is fairly difficult to get a read on.

Yea, reading is pretty damn scummy.

[kirbyphreak]

I really agree that tidus and MoS are looking a little scummy. I would wait with tidus to see if he has a voting restriction or something, but since this game is different.... I'll

Vote: Tidus

.

[TheCesspit]

Cesspit then amends to say that DG could be one of the "at least one mafia" on the wagon. This just strikes me as weird.

I said that there was at least one person in that list (DG and the wagon) who was Scum. It was followed up by a comment that it could be that everyone on the wagon was an astute Townie and DG was scum. I was said that I had considered this in my original comment, but possibly didn't make it clear.

Hopefully that wasn't that weird. Other people also gave other theories on the matter, which ranged from 'it's all scum' to 'it's all town and the scum love it'.

So not really the most useful of topics. I still think one of those people is Scum. I have no idea which!

[neongrey]

I dunno, I really don't think too much of the wanting-to-appear-pro-town line, but as it is, it's pretty useless, as -everyone- wants to appear pro-town. Scum wants to look pro-town so they can win, and town wants to look pro-town, so they don't get lynched. Because god knows it's possbile for town to look like scum.

So I don't chalk up too much to it.

[Fritzler]

<is pro town

[Norinel]

(bumping count to next page)