Post Apocalyptic Mafia - Mini 1226: Over!

[Fate]

AV if you don't move your fucking vote to Xvart in yoru next post after agreeing with my case I will be very fuckin pissed. If you agree with my case, then my reads don't suck and my READS are that we aren't kynching ZAJNET OR WRATIH today, so move your fucking vote.

[Wraith]

My gut is seriously pushing me towards my Gaoth/Regfan/Nico scumteam every time I see one of them post. While I'm seeing a more chainsaw-y/opportunist gist to the Goath/Regfan connection, the thing that makes me gut-read on Nicoscum is the fact that both of them seem to be subtly distancing themselves from him. Gaoth calls him scum-but-not-too-scum and Regfan pretty much ignores him.

[Fate]

Your gut fucking sucks.

Read my case and vote or refute it

You're either with me or with XVART

[Gaoth]

Okay. Finally checking in after getting a grasp on new school year.

My big question: Where is Nico? Why hasn't he checked in since Sunday night when he said he would be back? Reg, do you think this looks more like Lurker-Town-Nico? Because his lack of activity in the recent days has me reconsidering.

Fate, your case on xvart certainly has merit, but I can't overlook your impression of Daffy Duck (SHOOT ME!). Currently reevalutating my read on xvart since the town-read I had on him was based on 1 of 3 posts.

Wraith continues to dig a hole, so much so that his scumminess and the doubt I have about Nico at this point allow me to

Vote: Wraith

[Slaxx]

Votecount 1.07

Wraith(5)

: Regfan, Aurorusvox, Zajnet, Diddin, Gaoth

Nicodemus(2)

: Hinduragi, CSL

CSL(1)

: Nicodemus

AurorusVox(1)

: Palisade

Gaoth(1)

: Wraith

xvart(1)

: Fate

palisade(1)

: xvart

Regfan(0)

:

Timeater(0)

:

diddin(0)

:

Zajnet(0)

:

Hinduragi(0)

:

Fate(0)

:

Not Voting:

Timeater

7 is a majority.
Deadline is in (expired on 2011-09-07 20:00:00).

Nicodemus has like a day left before being replaced.
CSL is on LA indefinitely.

[xvart]

All right, time to break out an actual case.

Now that it has been determined that this town is going to blindly do whatever you determine to do?

NOW, the way TOWN can approach this game is that EVERYONE is more likely town than scum, and we need to SORT THROUGH THEM to get to the scum.

I actually approach the game the exact opposite. Everyone is likely scum in my opinion and I evaluate the behaviors and motivations of the people and decide to lynch the one most likely to be scum. I post town reads very rarely and only in very unique circumstances.

Why? From my experience Fate scum/Fate town on page one and two is pretty difficult to differentiate.

"Why is Fate town???"

There's so many scum this game it makes me sick. I think I'm most confident about

WHOAWHOA WUT. LIke Regfan said there are just players DRIPPING with mislynch this game, it makes him "sick" with joy at how easy he;ll have it.

This is a total misrepresentation of what I said, and it should be obvious. I said "There's so many scum this game it makes me sick" meaning there are a lot of people exhibiting scummy behavior and you somehow think I, as scum, was laughing publicly about how easy it will be to get mislynches? Really? I'll remind you just because you want to see something doesn't mean it is there.

I think if CSL ever flips town then Nico, Zjanet, and Diddin all score major scum points for trying to push an easy-ish mislynch.

Wow THREE people get to be scumreads for the sacrifice of only ONE mislynch!?!!? IT CANT GET BETTER THAN THAT TRADE.

You truncated my post to make your point. If you had left the post in it's entirety your point becomes invalid. The part you snipped out was "

Overall, I think this analysis has merit, but not for the reasons you put forward. For instance,

I think if CSL ever flips town..." The context of the conversation was discussing AV's analysis and how I think there was benefit of the wagon (or lack of wagon) analysis. Nowhere have I suggested lynching CSL so your sensationalize analysis is further invalidated.

How is he so town it hurts? His observation is totally inaccurate unless you think the following behaviors are town behaviors (hint: they are not):
Faking a post restriction that eliminates all ability to effectively communicate;
Faking a post restriction that eliminates all ability to convey messages; and,
Claiming cop on D1 in an attempt to draw a NK and risking outting a real cop.

"STOP READING PEOPLE AS TOWN FUCKING HELL"

Paliside is scum. AV is likely scum.

For all the PARAGRAPHS he gives on how people ARENT town, he sure as fuck doesn't explain his bullshit read on AUROUSVOX.

I've explained my scum read on AV in sufficient detail. It isn't contained in one post if that is what you mean but rather over the course of my conversation with him.

What towntells has regfan dropped?

"WUT MORE TOWNREADS???"

If only it were this easy or clear cut. Someone not dropping town tells does not mean he/she is scum.

"You cant lynch scum that arent scumslipping hardcore... you need to lynch... THE CLAIMED COP INSTEAD! FUFUFUUFUFUF"

Misrepresentation again. I didn't say you can't lynch someone on the basis of not scumslipping; but you were pushing the angle of someone not dropping town tells should be lynched. And furthermore, I have no problem lynching a claimed cop when the claimed cop is obviously a lying scumbag. Obviously you agree with me on Palisade since you think they are scum with me; although you don't care about lynching Palisade today. You want to wait until tomorrow. So how can you attack me for wanting to lynch a claimed cop when you have also said the claimed cop is scum? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm totally up for a Palisade lynch. Several people have Palisade as "scum lynch tomorrow." I don't think I ever got a legitimate reason for why we should be waiting to lynch Palisade?

In fact, screw it. This is the lynch today and I will entertain no other lynch suggestions unless someone seriously scumslips.

^Lol this entire post. Pallisade now has a more than decent chance of being town with our Xvart scumflip.

You will be sorely disappointed because me flipping scum will never happen in this game.

"Be that as it may" - doesn't that mean "Sure, even if that's true"?

1

And since Hindu has said he reads me as town 100%...

2

If what he says is true...

3

That would make me town.
And yet you'd still be interested in lynching me?

4

1

I was using the phrase as "regardless of someone else saying they think they can read you 100% of the time" and not "I agree that he can read you 100% of the time and agree that he must be correct in his read this time"

2

Pardon me if I am not going to just fall in line if someone claims to be able to read another player 100% of the time. The fact remains is that, as scum, your goal is to appear town. If you know someone is in the game that can read you as town more often than not you will try even harder to emulate that behavior.

3

The operative word being IF, and only in the context of IF he is correct this game.

4

Yes.

xvart says there are good reasons for me to be voting Zajnet but never votes him himself...especially interesting since he suggests I should have stayed on Zajnet instead of Wraith. Zajnet is obv. not getting lynched today, whereas Wraith is a potentially successful wagon, he'd rather move me onto the wagon that has no support to get me off the other one? Whilst taking credit if Zajnet ever does flip scum ("Oh look, I pushed him over Wraith to AV") and making my vote stick in limbo rather than on his other buddy...

You're taking what I said out of context. I was implicitly talking about your vote hop from Zajnet to Wraith and how you had stated a legitimate and justified reason for voting Zajnet when you jumped to Wraith on the basis of wanting to see if any of these scummy people would come and vote with you. You had a justified vote on someone and then you moved it to a very weak and logically inconsistent vote. And at the time of your vote switch you can't legitimately say that Zajnet was obv not getting lynched because the lynch leaders were Nico at 3, Wraith at 2, and Zajnet at 2. You are now justifying your vote with things that transpired after your vote. And even if it were true, why are you just now saying that you jumped off of Zajnet because it wasn't going anywhere?

The whole point, which is illustrated in your post 155, is that you are advocating the lynch of someone based on

other people's

scummy behavior.

He uses my analysis of WraithScum to turn it into three "scumpoints" as Fate outlines, in an attempt to deflect attention off of Wraith...possibly in an attempt to discredit the wagon. Early RVS bus with the first vote?

I thought his hop off was pro-town, but if we look for scum motivation in the move we do find it

(obv. get off his buddy at the earliest opportunity).

lol @ the "I need to make xvart look like scum which is difficult because I've called him town on a half dozen occasions, so if I look more closely at what I originally thought was a town motivated behavior it is actually scum motivated."

Also it felt like he was trying to discredit my idea that Wraith and Zajnet are scum together, when afaict he thought I had a legit reason for voting Zajnet and even thought that the cases for WraithScum "had some merit". Now conveniently both of them are outside of his lynch pool for today.

Again, the context of the quote in question was directly referencing your vote hop. You had a stated legitimate and justified reason for voting Zajnet and then you bailed for some crazy plan to see if scummy people would follow you onto Wraith. Scum can vote with legitimate reasons. So the problem is what?

AV if you don't move your fucking vote to Xvart in yoru next post after agreeing with my case I will be very fuckin pissed. If you agree with my case, then my reads don't suck and my READS are that we aren't kynching ZAJNET OR WRATIH today, so move your fucking vote.

AV isn't going to move his vote to me without undermining himself. He's called me town on several occasions and I suspect that he really doesn't want me to flip because it will give more credibility to what I've been saying.

[AurorusVox]

Unvote;
Vote: xvart

I'll make a proper post tomorrow responding to yours, but "AV won't vote me" was the wrong thing to say.

[Fate]

HEHEAEHHAHAHHWHAHAAAAA

DAMN RIGHT IT WAS

"AV WONT VOTE ME /SUBTLE MANIPULATION/"

BURN XVART WALL BURN.

LIKE I EVEN NEED TO READ IT OR RESPOND TO IT, ALL I SEE IS STRIPES OF YOU WHINING AND FLAILING AND DEFENDING YOURSELF WITH NO OFFENSE INVOLVED

[Palisade]

UNVOTE: Gaoth
VOTE: Nicodemus
UNVOTE: Wraith
VOTE: AurorusVox
UNVOTE: Regfan
VOTE: Zajnet

Unvote, Vote: Xvart,

UNVOTE: Xvart


UNVOTE: Xvart

Vote: Nicodemu

,
UNVOTE: Magi-SxienceUNVOTE: ,

Vote: ArorusVox

,
UNVOTE: Regfan

Vote: Nicodenus

,
UNVOTE: Wrauth.

Vote: Zajmet

,
UNVOTE: Gaith,

Vote: Jajney

.

Unvote, Vote: Nicodemu

,
UNVOTE: Magi-SxienceUNVOTE: ,

Vote: ArorusVox

,
UNVOTE: Regfan

Vote: Nicodenus

.

[Timeater]

Xvart isnt a D1 lynch

Vote: Wraith

[Fate]

Wraith isn't a d1 lynch while I'M STILL ALIVE.

Time to play on the next LEVEL timescum

[Timeater]

get on my level

I dont care what Hindu says, you are probscum.

[Fate]

LOL

[Hinduragi]

Sigh. Nico, if you're going to pick up that prod today and post, you better damn well be active. This shit isn't going to cut it, college or not.

[Nicodemus]

Sorry guys, I've been pretty busy recently and that combined with low enthusiasm for this game has made me really not interested in posting. I have about an hour before my next class though, so I'll try to get some content up asap.

[xvart]

I'll make a proper post tomorrow responding to yours, but "AV won't vote me" was the wrong thing to say.

So you admit to voting me just because I goaded you into it? What changed since your last post and why didn't you vote me then? Do you think my rebuttal of Fate's selective, out of context, and trucated quoting was scummy and is that why you voted me now? Or were you just setting the stage for a slow transition to voting me?

LIKE I EVEN NEED TO READ IT OR RESPOND TO IT, ALL I SEE IS STRIPES OF YOU WHINING AND FLAILING AND DEFENDING YOURSELF WITH NO OFFENSE INVOLVED

So you expected me to turn around and vote you just because you threw together a piece meal selection of quotes to fit what you want it to fit? Nah. If you're not going to read my responses at least respond to this one part:

I think if CSL ever flips town then Nico, Zjanet, and Diddin all score major scum points for trying to push an easy-ish mislynch.

Wow THREE people get to be scumreads for the sacrifice of only ONE mislynch!?!!? IT CANT GET BETTER THAN THAT TRADE.

You truncated my post to make your point. If you had left the post in it's entirety your point becomes invalid. The part you snipped out was "

Overall, I think this analysis has merit, but not for the reasons you put forward. For instance,

I think if CSL ever flips town..." The context of the conversation was discussing AV's analysis and how I think there was benefit of the wagon (or lack of wagon) analysis. Nowhere have I suggested lynching CSL so your sensationalize analysis is further invalidated.

[AurorusVox]

xvart, I voted you because you were using scum tactics to try to protect yourself from me voting you.
I was going to tell Fate that I probably wouldn't be voting you as per my priority list outlined already. But your "lol AV you'd best not vote me wink wink" is incredibly scummy.

Why do you think I find your response to Fate scummy?
I made it pretty clear that it was what you said about me not voting you that pushed me into placing the vote.

[xvart]

Why do you think I find your response to Fate scummy?
I made it pretty clear that it was what you said about me not voting you that pushed me into placing the vote.

Because my previous post to Fate (and a little to you) was the only thing I posted since your previous post. And you didn't indicate anything to suggest my challenge to you was actually scummy; just that it was the "wrong thing to say", hence the goading you into voting me.

[Nicodemus]

It looks like CSL is going to be able to lurk out of his lynch today, which makes me sad. I'm just going to leave this here for future days, so that people can go back and see just how scummy he is. Literally the worst case of OMGUS I've ever seen, but only posted after a wagon had sprung up on me so that he knew that he wouldn't be called out for it.

Palisade lives today, if for no other reason than to test his claim.

Fate is making some good points on xvart, but he is definitely reaching on a couple, particularly here:

I think if CSL ever flips town then Nico, Zjanet, and Diddin all score major scum points for trying to push an easy-ish mislynch.

Wow THREE people get to be scumreads for the sacrifice of only ONE mislynch!?!!? IT CANT GET BETTER THAN THAT TRADE.

You truncated my post to make your point. If you had left the post in it's entirety your point becomes invalid. The part you snipped out was "

Overall, I think this analysis has merit, but not for the reasons you put forward. For instance,

I think if CSL ever flips town..." The context of the conversation was discussing AV's analysis and how I think there was benefit of the wagon (or lack of wagon) analysis. Nowhere have I suggested lynching CSL so your sensationalize analysis is further invalidated.

I'm not really sure if I'm ready to commit to this lynch yet.

I'm leaning towards either Wraith or Timeater for the moment but I'm out of time and I don't want to lock a vote in right now. I'm going to be posting regularly from now on though, so I'll make a decision soon.

[Regfan]

Back from V/LA and holy mother of god the walls have started. I've read through the Xvart case briefly and a shit load of it is legitimate. The clincher though is Xvarts continuous avoidance from even attempting to question or converse with Palisade. Xvarts essentially voting a claimed cop and saying "Well you suspect the cop too so how is it scummy for me to be voting someone we both suspect!" when it's incredibly obvious that there's minimal reasoning for scum to claim cop so openly on D1 AND we can learn a lot more about their legitimacy via letting them investigate tonight. The Timeater suspicion needs to die, he's town, sure useless as fuck town but still town. Wraith is still scum but nowhere near as obvious as Xvart at this point and I'm feeling much better on AV as a whole.

@ Palisade

- I got SCCUM ITZ SCCUM from your last post which means nothing. If you really want to continue your fake post restriction at least attempt to make it legible and understandable. Vote/Unvote town-reads, have a gap then unvote/vote scum-reads, then have a gap and vote your largest suspect.

@ Diddin -

I've never *played* with Gaoth-scum but I've read through an entire game of Gaoth-scum (90's Band Mafia).

@ Gaoth

- Yeah, that's what I was thinking, this is reading as bored/lazy Nico-Town.

@ Nico -

Just because one point of the case is "Stretching" how does that make you not want to vote Xvart?

Unvote, Vote; Xvart

[xvart]

Fate doesn't make good points at all. For those who need a concise version of why his "case" is not valid:

1. First, it isn't a scumtell that I question people's town reads, especially ones that are either contrary to my own or not obvious, so you can scratch the parts of his case about me questioning CSLs page 2 town read on Fate, me questioning Goath's unexplained town read based on a faulty read of
2. Palisade, and my questioning diddin's out of the blue town read on Regfan;
   
3. You can also take out Fate's interpretation of me saying there were so many scum the first few pages as I am scum, I love the fact that there are so many possible mislynches, and I am in fact so giddy about this that I just have to post about it since it is a totally unsubstantiated and complete stretch;
   
4. You can also remove the "three scumreads for the sacrifice of one mislynch since he truncated the quote to fit his needs and I never suggested that we lynch CSL, which was the basis of his point;
   
5. He says I haven't given an explanation of my scum read on AV when I actually have; and,
   
6. The now town read on Palisade when we were previously paired together is also a stretch.

That's his case in a nutshell and why it is a piece meal of stretching, fabricating, misrepresenting, and convienent trucation of quotes.

Palisade's recent fake coded message says:
scum in ozt scum... Thanks for that townie goodness.

The clincher though is Xvarts continuous avoidance from even attempting to question or converse with Palisade. Xvarts essentially voting a claimed cop and saying "Well you suspect the cop too so how is it scummy for me to be voting someone we both suspect!" when it's incredibly obvious that there's minimal reasoning for scum to claim cop so openly on D1 AND we can learn a lot more about their legitimacy via letting them investigate tonight.

Cool. It is obvious why scum would claim cop under little actual pressure other than discussion about how the restriction is obviously faked where there is even less motivation as town to claim cop under little actual pressure. The clincher is that we have collectively established that the post restriction is fake and he still hangs on to it despite us knowing it is fake. What benefit is it to town to keep up the charade of not being able to effectively communicate and lurk around and NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO COMMUNICATE. As town, he should drop the facade since the cat is already out of the bag and... you know... be town and help us find scum.

Oh, and the clincher you mention about my "continuous avoidance from even attempting to question or converse with Palisade is quite laughable" as how do you suggest I go about talking to someone who has demonstrated they are only going to prod dodge and communicate like this?

Also, Regan, you haven't answered my question since you got back:

Slaxx hates post restrictions and think they detract from the game meaning the post restrction is 100% fake. There hasn't been any point stating so until now because him posting like that means I don't have to hear his illogical and non-sensical reasoning behind his reads (I asked to /Out if Mastin /Inned but caved last minute due to the player list being amazing and me being a pussy). I've seen Mastin act and fake things like this previously as town and I'm failing to see him claim cop this early on as mafia as a counter-claim (Which is likely for a role as common as cop) would lead towards his lynch.

Okay, that's good enough for me to consider the post restriction fake; but I would feel a whole lot better if this was public knowledge somewhere or was it a private conversation? Furthermore, as you pointed out, Mastin has apparently site flaked so I think mastin's motivations for doing this is irrelevant as it would actually be TwistedSpoon doing it. If TwistedSpoon felt he was under pressure due to the restriction he created it seems like a plausible claim to either snuff the suspicion and hope for no cop or no counter claim; or at the least get a claim out for his buddies to capitalize on. Why do you think the fake post restriction is mastin's master plan when you said he had site flaked and therefore not around to actually scheme?

Since my message is getting lost I'll post some bullets later on my suspects and why their behavior is scum motivated.

[Fate]

Of course XVART is going to say the case against him sucks.

Look past the lies, look at the entire game, wholistically, he is DEFINITE scum.

If I weren't so short on time I could elaborate why, but trust me this fuck is scum.

[Timeater]

I dont like skewed summaries.

[CSL]

xvart, how do you know I'm a mislynch?

Nicodemus is town. Regfan is town too.

Unvote; Vote: xvart

[Regfan]

@ Xvart -

I don't disagree, Palisade

should

be stopping this obvious fake posting restriction right about now or at least attempt to communicate understandably with it but him not doing so doesn't make him scum, just a terrible player and pushing them on that is opportunistic as fuck. I don't see how there's "Obvious scum motivation to claim cop under little pressure" at all, especially a role as common as cop whereas I do see him doing it as town to create some sort of authority or leadership over the day. There is also a difference between them being difficult to communicate with and not even attempting to communicate with them, you haven't once directed anything towards them in hope of furthering your read yet you were content enough stating that your vote wouldn't move of them.

Okay, that's good enough for me to consider the post restriction fake; but I would feel a whole lot better if this was public knowledge somewhere or was it a private conversation? Furthermore, as you pointed out, Mastin has apparently site flaked so I think mastin's motivations for doing this is irrelevant as it would actually be TwistedSpoon doing it. If TwistedSpoon felt he was under pressure due to the restriction he created it seems like a plausible claim to either snuff the suspicion and hope for no cop or no counter claim; or at the least get a claim out for his buddies to capitalize on. Why do you think the fake post restriction is mastin's master plan when you said he had site flaked and therefore not around to actually scheme?

Most of Slaxxs thoughts on it is in private though there may be some publicly posted, I'll look for it later if needed. I

thought

that Mastin had site flaked, he hadn't. He was just not posting in his other game but posting in his scum QT instead, it's very possible heck even probable that he started this posting restriction but that's moot considering TS has done similar things in the past such as playing on Groundsel. Again it's been said 100 times, faking a posting restriction in their case =/= them having to be scum and pushing them for it when they've claimed cop D1 when there is multiple other 'scummy' players and as you say 'suspects' reads purely as attempting to push a ML and nothing else.