Mini 1238 - One After the Other - Over!

[whispersilk]

VOTE: Friend

Because he is opportunistic.

This vote is subject to change once I understand what just happened while I was trying to post.

[whispersilk]

Empking, what did you mean by your original comment with your vote change, and monk, what exactly was your trap and what was it supposed to prove? I don't get it.

[whispersilk]

VOTE: Friend

Because he is opportunistic.

This vote is subject to change once I understand what just happened while I was trying to post.

Empking ninja'd me. I was literally typing the same thing he was saying but I decided to post it anyways because it makes sense.

Why do you consider wagoning opportunistic?

Because I don't understand yet what the trap was or how it proves anything. All I know is you jumped at the opportunity to vote empking too. Like I said, this might change once I understand what just happened.

[whispersilk]

Ok, monk changed his vote during RVS pretty quickly, and Empking jumped on it and called it scummy. monk claims to have set a trap to see who pointed it out, and it turned out to be Empking. Friend also then jumped on monk.

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with changing your vote during RVS, because it elicits reactions from people as it did in this case. monk has no reason to claim it was a trap, other than it really was a trap. Empking reacted and used it as a reason to vote for monk. I don't like that. Friend used it as a reason to vote for monk too. I don't like that either.

People usually end up calling me whisper, which I think is going to be a little confusing in this game.

[whispersilk]

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with changing your vote during RVS, because it elicits reactions from people as it did in this case. monk has no reason to claim it was a trap, other than it really was a trap. Empking reacted and used it as a reason to vote for monk. I don't like that. Friend used it as a reason to vote for monk too. I don't like that either.

I don't think there is either. You're misunderstanding my position. I think it's scummy that instead of saying "there's nothing wrong with changing your vote in RVS, it's not a big deal, calm down" he said "LOL it was a trap Empking I've caught you as scum." It makes no sense unless he's nervous about his play, which I find scummy. Town have no reason to be nervous.

That's my entire point. I don't see monk changing his vote as scummy, but Empking jumped on it as an excuse to vote for monk. It was only

afterwards

that monk claimed it was a plan.

Seeing as we both agree that there is nothing wrong with changing your vote during RVS, who made the scummier action first? Empking for using monks vote change as a reason to vote him and call it scummy, or monk for claiming it was a plan?

[whispersilk]

@ I find that strange considering your own stance on the matter.

[whispersilk]

^@Friend

[whispersilk]

@ I find that strange considering your own stance on the matter.

Why?

Because personally you don't see an RVS vote change as scummy, right? Pretty much how I feel about it too.

However, someone else used that as an excuse to vote for monk, and instead of standing by your own beliefs and saying to Empking "hey bro, I don't really think a vote change in RVS is scummy", you blatantly sheeped him and voted for monk too.

Let me ask you another question, and I guess this should have been the one I asked in my previous post:

Seeing as we both agree that there is nothing wrong with changing your vote during RVS, and answering based upon your personal theory of the game, who made the scummier action first? monk for changing his vote, or Empking for using monks vote change as a reason to vote him and call him scummy?

[whispersilk]

Silk: If there's nothing wrong with having two random votes then how does it lead one out of RVS?

Sorry, never been called that before and didn't notice it till now.

I don't understand what you are asking me here.

[whispersilk]

@Empking: Because catching someone calling it scummy and using it as a reason to vote is a good way to catch opportunistic scum.

I noticed all the pink nested quote boxes and the bottom of page two while I was re-reading a comment made by friend.

[whispersilk]

Whisper, did you even read my post 36?

Yes, I did, and I'll explain why I don't like it.

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with changing your vote during RVS, because it elicits reactions from people as it did in this case. monk has no reason to claim it was a trap, other than it really was a trap. Empking reacted and used it as a reason to vote for monk. I don't like that. Friend used it as a reason to vote for monk too. I don't like that either.

I don't think there is either. You're misunderstanding my position. I think it's scummy that instead of saying "there's nothing wrong with changing your vote in RVS, it's not a big deal, calm down" he said

"LOL it was a trap Empking I've caught you as scum."

It makes no sense unless he's nervous about his play, which I find scummy. Town have no reason to be nervous.

But monk didn't say that at all, so why are you putting your own spin on what he really did say?

This is what he

actually

said:

Unvote. Vote: Monk

- Two random votes, the first a second vote.

I set a trap, I didn't think you'd be the one to set it off, disappointing empking VOTE: Empking

I'm sorry, but I see nothing displaying nervousness in that post. He didn't say "LOL" or even mention the words "scum" or "scummy" like you claimed in your post #36. He just stated his plan claim pretty seriously and expressed disappointment in Emkping. You took what his statement and changed the words and tone in an attempt to make it appear a nervous one.

I'm sorry, but I don't like it.

If he actually

had

said it the way you made out, then yes, I think I would agree with your claim that it appears nervous and perhaps like he is covering some kind of error, but, he didn't and I don't.

Anything else?

[whispersilk]

Stop ignoring me whispers...

Yeah, you can stop that right now. Just because I don't reply to you instantly doesn't mean I'm ignoring you, so don't try to paint it that way because it's hella scummy.

[whispersilk]

@Empking: Because catching someone calling it scummy and using it as a reason to vote is a good way to catch opportunistic scum.

Why would scum call it scummy? So they could ride it to a lynch? Because I doubt that would happen. To spark discussion? No scum wouldn't do that, that's pro-town. What was the scum motive for calling monk out?

Why wouldn't scum use it to start a wagon? I've seen scum start wagons for petty reasons, wait for silly townies to sheep them, then jump off before the lynch. Hell I've even seem scum do it twice in a row and get away with it.

[whispersilk]

I was working and replying to Empking because I'd already missed his question to me and he was getting antsy. Then I was copy pasting quotes from the previous 2 pages to reply to your question.

Seriously, you're going to sit there and try to make out I was ignoring you just because it took me 20 minutes to reply to Empking and you. Do you have any concept of real life, and the fact that people have them?

I'm pretty happy with where my vote is right now.

[whispersilk]

@Empking: Because catching someone calling it scummy and using it as a reason to vote is a good way to catch opportunistic scum.

Why would scum call it scummy? So they could ride it to a lynch? Because I doubt that would happen. To spark discussion? No scum wouldn't do that, that's pro-town. What was the scum motive for calling monk out?

Why wouldn't scum use it to start a wagon? I've seen scum start wagons for petty reasons, wait for silly townies to sheep them, then jump off before the lynch. Hell I've even seem scum do it twice in a row and get away with it.

OK, so you think I thought it would get monk lynched. Oookay.

It's possible, but unlikely.

However, my concern is not with monk or Empking, it's with Friend, and his reaction and twisting of monks statement.

Don't you think there is anything suspicious about someone changing the words and tone of a post to suit their claims?

[whispersilk]

Yeah, you could have easily said "I'll get to you, Friend."

I don't find it scummy, just irritating.

Well prepared to get more irritated, because I've had to wait 2 days to get a response from some people while playing this game. People have jobs and real lives, and can't always reply instantly. I'm not here to cater to your impatience.

[whispersilk]

This is incredibly nervous, sorry. I was simply paraphrasing. He doesn't go into the nature of his trap or why it's even a trap in the first place. I don't think he intended to set a trap at all from the looks of this post - I just don't think monk is a good enough player to think that far ahead. I've played with him before.

No, that

wasn't

nervous, imo. What

you

changed it to could be construed as having a nervous tone, yes. But he didn't say what you said he did, did he?

And no, what you did was not paraphrasing. You outright changed the tone and wording of what he said.

Again, I'm not the least bit interested in monk or Empking right now. I don't like the way took what monk said and made it into something it's not. Hell, if monk's claim of having a plan came across as being so nervous and scummy, then why isn't everyone else voting him? Why is it only you?

[whispersilk]

Whispers: When you're online, you should be able to at least say something to me. If you weren't online and replying to other people I wouldn't be irritated.

Dude, what part of "I have a job and I can't reply to everyone all at the same time" don't you understand? Why are you demanding that I not only reply to you ASAP, but I should also let you know when I can't. Honestly, you're really beginning to irritate me with your pettiness.

Also, I didn't twist monk's statement at all. Do you feel like monk's "It was a trap" post was completely calm and collected?

Uhm, yes you did; it's all there in black and white for everyone to see, and as I've already stated: I saw no signs of nervousness in monks post.

[whispersilk]

I saw it as very nervous, so I construed it that way. You're nitpicking at this point and this argument is getting stale. I'm tired of wasting my time on you.

And Empking's voting monk, too. Maybe monk's buddies don't want to hop on the wagon. What kind of a question is that, anyways.

I'm nitpicking? Seriously? This coming from the guy that nitpicks over me taking 20 minutes to reply to his question is laughable.

Yes, we know Empking voted monk, because you sheeped him

And no, no one is jumping on monks wagon because what he said was not a scum tell

[whispersilk]

Don't you think there is anything suspicious about someone changing the words and tone of a post to suit their claims?

I have to say that I agree with Friend.

I don't care if you agree with him. We call know you think monk slipped up. That is not what I asked you.

I asked you if you find someone changing the words and tone of a post to suit their claims as being suspicious?

[whispersilk]

I'm going to let some other people weigh in. Nice talking to you.

Aww, you don't want to talk any more or address anything I've said.

Why am I not surprised.

[whispersilk]

Don't you think there is anything suspicious about someone changing the words and tone of a post to suit their claims?

I have to say that I agree with Friend.

I don't care if you agree with him. We call know you think monk slipped up. That is not what I asked you.

I asked you if you find someone changing the words and tone of a post to suit their claims as being suspicious?

I don't think he changed the tone.

wow. Just wow.

[whispersilk]

@mute: I'm on GMT.

[whispersilk]

Pacific.

Aww, whispers, I'm not talking to you because you're really kind of an asshole and talking to you is going to get us nowhere but me saying "I'm right" and you saying "you're wrong."

I think talking to you has revealed quite a lot. Thanks for participating.

[whispersilk]

You'd clearly buy anything.

Picking up on little things and seeing where they take you does not = flustered. Friend blatantly changed the entire tone of monk's post. Hell if I know if monk is scum. What I do know is that Friend voted for monk using the reasoning that monk's tone was a nervous one when he claimed it was all a plan. It wasn't. Friend changed the tone and wording of monk's post to support his reasoning. End of story.

Oh wait, Empking still hasn't answered my question.

Kudo's to the scum who have been bold enough to jump on my wagon thus far.

[whispersilk]

Guys, even though whisper is being annoyingly misguided I think she's town.

Yeah, I think you're town too. Mainly because you didn't vote for me after a couple of other people did. It would have been a great opportunity for scum to jump on the wagon. Sorry if I came on a bit strong. I can be pretty aggressive when town.

[whispersilk]

UNVOTE: Friend

[whispersilk]

Yeah, same here. Work will keep me busy over the weekend, but I will try to get on at some point and catch up too.

[whispersilk]

Oooops, I got a little caught up reading an 80 page game. Every so sorry. I promise to catch up tonight and post something tomorrow.

[whispersilk]

Well, if I was alive tomorrow, I'd probably want to lynch KJ, Ps, or Whispersilk. Their activity while there's a wagon on town reeks of scum. Basically they are sitting back and lurking while town lynches town and not getting their hands dirty.

I'm not so much lurking, as I am too busy too post in this game right now. I'm way behind in another game, so I've been catching up there. I didn't realise there was someone at L-2.

I don't plan on voting for you, but if you reckon the people off your wagon are mostly scum, then that must mean the people on your wagon are mostly town? That would lead me to believe that whatever cases they have on you must be pretty legit, and not just scum slinging shit. If you are town like you say, and their cases are based on mis-reads and misinterpretation, then I suggest you do your best to counter their accusations and change their opinions of you.

Will do my best to catch up here tomorrow.

[whispersilk]

/scurred

You know what I want to do? I want to lynch the towniest looking player.

[whispersilk]

I've not been playing this game long, but I've noticed that D1 ends in a mislynch almost every single game. Why? Because naturally we all end up lynching the scummiest looking player. But what kind of scum comes off as scummy on day 1? None. Because they are all either taking a back seat, or doing their very best to act as towny as possible. Therefore, imo, it makes sense to do a complete 180 and lynch the player that appears the most town.

Basically, I'm not too keen on lynching seemingly scummy players on day 1 and day 2, because I think scum are out there acting town and doing their best to make town players look like scum, especially those that have that scummy vibe anyway.

[whispersilk]

You know.

That's really odd.

Not sure if you're trying to be creative or trying to avoid scumlynch.

Not trying to avoid anything. I have reason to think the way I do. In my last open game (and Empking can attest to this because he was a mime), I was a vig, and tbh, I was AWOL from the game the entire first day, I think I just made my confirm post and one RVS post, and then I didn't come back until night 1. I spent a long time reading the game, and ISO'ing everyone, and I came to the conclusion that I was going to kill someone, but not the people that everyone said I should, or even the scummy looking players. I shot someone that no one expected, and I ended up hitting a mime (which took the other one out of the game). Night 2, I shot the player that appeared most town and most helpful and most logical and most everything a towny should be. He was a goon. I lynched the other goon the next day.

I think it's just not as simple as lynching the scummy players. We have to be smart about this.

[whispersilk]

Then why do town end up being mislynched in almost every single mafia game?

[whispersilk]

And my experience is not just limited to that game. It's every game I'm in. Town have come off as scum, while the scum appear town, and the first two days end in a mislynch.

Anyway, enough game theory. Sorry.

[whispersilk]

It's not a case of a flawless victory. I'm talking about day 1 and day 2 lynches, and how they are usually mislynches. This seems to be the case regardless of which side ultimately wins the game.

[whispersilk]

Yes, I did. But no one listens to me.

And of course there are scum who are being pretty vocal in the game.

[whispersilk]

heh, I didn't defend monk. I stated quite clearly that I didn't know if monk was scum or not; that I was much more interested in Friend's reaction to the whole page 1 monk thing.

[whispersilk]

Why do you feel like I'm town?

[whispersilk]

I think ITT means "in this thread".

I'm completely out of touch with this game because it's moving so slowly. I'm going to make a real effort to change that.

[whispersilk]

I'm sheeping whiskers.

VOTE: chkflip

[whispersilk]

My whole "yeah, I think you're town too, Friend" was all a ruse to throw him off. I thought he was scummy then, and I think chkflip is scummy now. I don't think monk is scum, and I haven't been playing enough attention to the game to have any decent reads on anyone else. I could vote empking, but that would just be because he says so little and he makes me want to reach into my screen, grab him and give him a good shake. Ashblade would be someone else I'd vote for, just because of the way Friend tunnelled him on day 1 for little reason.

[whispersilk]

lol, I just ISO'd killjoy.

VOTE: killjoy

Will follow this up with a detailed post why.

[whispersilk]

[...]
Gonna look over the game and replacements,

but not liking Chkflip for no inexplicable reason other than gut.

[...]I Cannot fathom how people think that "LOL Empking caught you" is in anyway scummy.

It was clearly a Newbie action and Empking's (Chkflip too to a degree) insistence that monk is scum is odd. Monk is not scum.

In the same post...

Chkflip is probably town

Vote count at the point you voted for monk:

Monk - Empking, chkflip, Hiraki, NS (4)
NS - Killjoy
Killjoy - Ashblade (1)
Ashblade - Killjoy (1)
chkflip - Whiskers, Whispersilk (2)
Not voting - like 1 people

I only voted Monk because of deadline. Plus someone asked me to vote him and despite my own feelings I voted him.

Your play is crap, your posts are crap, you are scum.

Possible scumbuddies are probably Whiskers or Chk.

Despite your constant claims that he is obv town, you put monk at L-1.

Killjoy, if you don't think I'm scum then don't vote me

Lamesauce. You thought empking was scum. You thought NS was scummy enough to vote for him. Your read on chkflip is strange to say the least. First you didn't like him due to your gut, then you called his reaction to monk's gambit "odd", but then in the same post you say he is probably town. Today, you are calling him scum again. Either way, he was also on monk's wagon. You had an opportunity to vote for chkflip (a scum read) over voting for your town read, a town read that told you not to vote for him. Your vote on chkflip would have taken him to L-3, just one less that monk. After reading monk in ISO, I am confident he would have voted for chkflip instead of hammering himself, making chkflip equal in votes. You had a choice other than voting for your town read, but you didn't take it, and now you're shirking responsibility for your actions.

[whispersilk]

If town people like Whisper would like to play instead of sheeping scum and voting an easy mislynch, things would be different.

omg, the irony.

Also, despite never having played with you before, and the fact I've contributed virtually nothing to this game, you seem so sure I am town. I don't like it. If you were someone who knew my meta, then yeah, I would understand, but you know nothing about how I play.

Whisper I really don't care if you think I am scum since you have almost completely ignored Chk's play despite having many problems with his predecessor.

Have you actually been keeping track of what I do? I

voted

for chkflip yesterday, instead of sheeping everyone else and voting for monk, who I didn't believe was scum either. What the hell did you do? You voted for him, even after he asked you not to.

Also, way to ignore my comments about your reads on chkflip. Explain please, why your read went from suspicious-even more suspicious-town...all in the space of two posts? Explain why chkflip is now suddenly scum? Explain what makes chkflip any more likely to be scum, than say NS, who was also on the monk wagon and was someone you also voted for briefly yesterday.

Also, by claiming that Empking is scum, and that whiskers and chkflip are his buddies, you are saying that only one scum was on monks wagon?

[whispersilk]

Is that post meant to be taken seriously after you've ignored both my posts and questions to you?

Seriously.

[whispersilk]

Yeah, it was more than your bold tags that needed fixing. I fixed it because it was an unholy mess.

This is killjoy's post #675

If town people like Whisper would like to play instead of sheeping scum and voting an easy mislynch, things would be different.

omg, the irony.

Also, despite never having played with you before, and the fact I've contributed virtually nothing to this game, you seem so sure I am town. I don't like it. If you were someone who knew my meta, then yeah, I would understand, but you know nothing about how I play.

What? You are the epitome of paranoia lol. I think you are town because of your play. I see it is so strange that you are not okay with me calling you town and being sure of it, but you were okay with Empking being so "sure" that Monk was scum.

I have already explained why I voted Monk. To prove Empking wrong and expose him as scum. Had I note voted, town would still be suck debating Monk's alignment.

NS, I want you to answer my questions and anyone who doesn't let those people answer those questions (Aka quick lynching me) is scum.

Whisper I really don't care if you think I am scum since you have almost completely ignored Chk's play despite having many problems with his predecessor.

Have you actually been keeping track of what I do? I

voted

for chkflip yesterday, instead of sheeping everyone else and voting for monk, who I didn't believe was scum either. What the hell did you do? You voted for him, even after he asked you not to.

Also, way to ignore my comments about your reads on chkflip. Explain please, why your read went from suspicious-even more suspicious-town...all in the space of two posts? Explain why chkflip is now suddenly scum? Explain what makes chkflip any more likely to be scum, than say NS, who was also on the monk wagon and was someone you also voted for briefly yesterday.

Also, by claiming that Empking is scum, and that whiskers and chkflip are his buddies, you are saying that only one scum was on monks wagon?

I didn't mean to ignore them. I have a migraine and honestly just breezed past them because Nobody's vote was horrible. Chk is more likely scum because of his interaction with Empkin, who I am fairly certain is scum. I flip flopped because I am not a good player. I get nervous about people and act on impulse. I know my voting history is bad, but that doesn't excuse the play of other people.

I don't understand? Chk was on Monk's wagon... So that would be two with Whiskers being the third and not on the wagon for distancing.

[whispersilk]

Can you be a little more specific as to why he is not scum?

[whispersilk]

Oh, but he did. And he did so under the guise of being drunk. He then unvoted shortly afterwards whne monk told him not to vote for him if he thought he was town. Then NS put monk at L-2. Then killjoy obviously like blanked monk's plea out of his mind and re-voted him again.

Is that your sole reason for declaring him town?

[whispersilk]

UNVOTE: killjoy

[whispersilk]

I don't want him hammered before he claims or defend harder.

[whispersilk]

Also, why aren't you voting for him Whiskers?

[whispersilk]

I gotta admit that I'm having second thoughts.

[whispersilk]

No.

[whispersilk]

Do town get rolecops too? Why do I think only scum have rolecops?

[whispersilk]

He's at L-2, so you'd need two people, NS.

[whispersilk]

I'd appreciate everyones read on Hiraki.

[whispersilk]

You know you remind me of someone.

DeityKabuto.

I lol'ed.

[whispersilk]

He knows killjoy is town because he's scum.

And now he's calling me potential scum because I've asked everyone for a read on him. Shweet.

VOTE: hiraki

[whispersilk]

UNVOTE:

[whispersilk]

I didn't like the way Emp jumped on there with no explanation. I know that is a little hypocritical of me, but I feel that it's slightly different when voting for someone.

Hey Whiskers, would you vote Emp?

[whispersilk]

I have no case. It's all gut.

[whispersilk]

Doctor - Friend Chk

What?

[whispersilk]

What did that post mean?

[whispersilk]

What do you have to say about that Empking?

[whispersilk]

VOTE: Empking

I think this could be L-1.

mod: vote count plz

[whispersilk]

Roger that.

I'm glad we didn't lynch you.

[whispersilk]

VOTE: chkflip

Why didn't they kill the doc?

Who did you choose to protect last night kill?

[whispersilk]

He already said he doctored monk both nights.

Don't you read?

[whispersilk]

UNVOTE:

Maybe a ton of WIFOM, but what you're saying makes sense. Empking isn't dumb.

[whispersilk]

Blocks:

N1 killerjester
N2 Empking
N3 chkflip


Will be here tonight or tomorrow with more words.

killerjester?

What game you playing?

[whispersilk]

I'd like to hear what Nobody has to say before we lynch.

[whispersilk]

I'd lol my pants if Whiskers is scum.

[whispersilk]

If NS flips town, then Whiskers is sooooo scum.

[whispersilk]

It's sexual.

[whispersilk]

Oh hi.

[whispersilk]

Yeah, Papa rocks.

But, do we really think that NS is scum, and that only one of the replacements is scum?

What are we thinking here?

[whispersilk]

Junpei, are you kidding me? I read every single post in that game.

Funny how you now claim that I didn't reread the game in question, yet DURING the game in question, you never mentioned anything of the sort.

Also, whoa fancy colours.

Also, if NS is such a great lynch, why not just vote him and concentrate all yer scumhunting efforts on Whiskers tomorrow?

[whispersilk]

He's not at L-1.

[whispersilk]

I think 3 scum sound right for the amount of players. I have to say that I assumed there were 3 scum as well.

[whispersilk]

Junpei is trying waaaay too hard, and I think he bit off more than he can chew.

[whispersilk]

Quit calling me suspect if NS flips town. I'm not scum.

[whispersilk]

Whatever, Junpei.

[whispersilk]

VOTE: Junpei

[whispersilk]

I knew you'd like it.

[whispersilk]

I'm a VT. How do we know there is a cop?

I'm pretty damn sure Junpei is scum, just not certain who his bud is.

[whispersilk]

And hey, if I'm wrong, scum will just quick lynch him and win, right?

[whispersilk]

lol