Newbie 1136: DarthYoshi's Dystopia of Death (Fin--who won?!)

[Nexus]

Stels has been prodded.

[Stels]

Huh, oh sorry. I flew in yesterday, was tired as hell, and first day of school today soooo. I'm real sorry.

[Stels]

One thing I can comment on is the case Anxiety made. It's complete BS as far as I can tell.

Spoiler:

Here is my case for the johhog/stels scumteam:

I'm a fucking idiot and I think that I basically told scum that Morthas was the doc. More content later, I'm a football (the real, European version :p) referee and have a game soon.

Commenting on the NK is a scumtell(according to the wiki). CS already covered this earlier.

And I see CS is browsing the forums (wouldn't he get back tomorrow?) so my

gambit

would've failed even if Theam was scum, I'll assume he had the opportunity to be on-line some time during these days. Wonderful.

I assume that the term gambit is most likely used by scum, correct me if i am wrong.

What's this gambit you

(referring to cs, after rereading he doesn't look as eager as johhog.

and Johog are so eager to talk about?

Look, if we had lynched earlier AND Theam would've been scum, if CS would've been the alone scum member, he couldn't have submitted the night kill. If he was town, scum would either have to:

A) Kill him.
B) No kill.
C) Kill someone else, but CS would be confirmed town because he couldn't submit a night kill.

Well, it didn't work, but that was the

plan

.

this was a red flag for me. it looks like he is uncomfortable with using the word gambit again.

Okay this explaination of the gambit/plan (poor choice of words?) makes more sense than the first one provided.

um why am I scum?

And who is my scumbuddy, it wasn't very clear.

You're mainly scum because of your predecessors play, but also because I find it hard to believe that both CS and Stels is scum.

I would say that Stels is the other one, but I'm not sure.

-ignores my first question, decides to only answer the other two.

FUCK CASES. This ain't the first time I'm considered scummy because of a case, and still people wants them!
---
So something you wanna ask me, or what? 4nxi3ty didn't even answer to my failcase, so now I'm completely sure it's him. The other one - well, it's Stels or CS. Probably Stels, but hard to say considering that he haven't posted much lately. Please, I beg of you, look past my case and at my other actions instead. If you find them scummy too - well, not much I can do then, can I?

Why do want only me to answer your case and no one else?

After reading CS's case, Stels has become my other suspect.
He hammered on the first PR day one and on D2 his vote was placed on the other PR. Than when morthas hammered theam he switched his vote before the final votecount.

I'm a little busy right now, but I plan to reread the game this weekend with both 4nxi3ty and Stels as main targets to find out who is Johhog's scumbuddy.

With the timing of AeRyung's vote it is almost impossible for Johhog and Stels to be scumbuddies.

I disagree. It would be a pretty high risk to have the quickhammer happen then already.

your probably right about that tho i would've risked it xD.

1) Wiki is wrong. The wiki is so outdated, that it's not even funny to go according to it.
2) Gambit's aren't always done by scum.
3) Nitpicking words.
4) He did answer both questions.
5) His case is based upon you, why would anyone else answer it?
6) My vote on PR's is a null-tell WIFOM. D1 I have no way of investigating PR's even if I was mafia rolecop. Morthas is my policy lynch.

[Stels]

One thing I can comment on is the case Anxiety made. It's complete BS as far as I can tell.

Spoiler:

Here is my case for the johhog/stels scumteam:

I'm a fucking idiot and I think that I basically told scum that Morthas was the doc. More content later, I'm a football (the real, European version :p) referee and have a game soon.

Commenting on the NK is a scumtell(according to the wiki). CS already covered this earlier.

And I see CS is browsing the forums (wouldn't he get back tomorrow?) so my

gambit

would've failed even if Theam was scum, I'll assume he had the opportunity to be on-line some time during these days. Wonderful.

I assume that the term gambit is most likely used by scum, correct me if i am wrong.

What's this gambit you

(referring to cs, after rereading he doesn't look as eager as johhog.

and Johog are so eager to talk about?

Look, if we had lynched earlier AND Theam would've been scum, if CS would've been the alone scum member, he couldn't have submitted the night kill. If he was town, scum would either have to:

A) Kill him.
B) No kill.
C) Kill someone else, but CS would be confirmed town because he couldn't submit a night kill.

Well, it didn't work, but that was the

plan

.

this was a red flag for me. it looks like he is uncomfortable with using the word gambit again.

Okay this explaination of the gambit/plan (poor choice of words?) makes more sense than the first one provided.

um why am I scum?

And who is my scumbuddy, it wasn't very clear.

You're mainly scum because of your predecessors play, but also because I find it hard to believe that both CS and Stels is scum.

I would say that Stels is the other one, but I'm not sure.

-ignores my first question, decides to only answer the other two.

FUCK CASES. This ain't the first time I'm considered scummy because of a case, and still people wants them!
---
So something you wanna ask me, or what? 4nxi3ty didn't even answer to my failcase, so now I'm completely sure it's him. The other one - well, it's Stels or CS. Probably Stels, but hard to say considering that he haven't posted much lately. Please, I beg of you, look past my case and at my other actions instead. If you find them scummy too - well, not much I can do then, can I?

Why do want only me to answer your case and no one else?

After reading CS's case, Stels has become my other suspect.
He hammered on the first PR day one and on D2 his vote was placed on the other PR. Than when morthas hammered theam he switched his vote before the final votecount.

I'm a little busy right now, but I plan to reread the game this weekend with both 4nxi3ty and Stels as main targets to find out who is Johhog's scumbuddy.

With the timing of AeRyung's vote it is almost impossible for Johhog and Stels to be scumbuddies.

I disagree. It would be a pretty high risk to have the quickhammer happen then already.

your probably right about that tho i would've risked it xD.

1) Wiki is wrong. The wiki is so outdated, that it's not even funny to go according to it.
2) Gambit's aren't always done by scum.
3) Nitpicking words.
4) He did answer both questions.
5) His case is based upon you, why would anyone else answer it?
6) My vote on PR's is a null-tell WIFOM. D1 I have no way of investigating PR's even if I was mafia rolecop. Morthas is my policy lynch.

[4nxi3ty]

One thing I can comment on is the case Anxiety made. It's complete BS as far as I can tell.

Spoiler:

1) Wiki is wrong. The wiki is so outdated, that it's not even funny to go according to it.
2) Gambit's aren't always done by scum.
3) Nitpicking words.
4) He did answer both questions.
5) His case is based upon you, why would anyone else answer it?
6) My vote on PR's is a null-tell WIFOM. D1 I have no way of investigating PR's even if I was mafia rolecop. Morthas is my policy lynch.

1. I agree that blindly following the wiki is a bad idea,however the info is there for a reason. You are wrong to assume that the info there would never be helpful.
2. I still think gambits are more often used by scum and i haven't found anything to convince me otherwise.
3. Mafia is all about understanding the words people write, how is this wrong?
4. Yup he answer both not all three(maybe thats my fault for poor phrasing).
5.My case is mainly based on johhog, why are you answering that part?
6.Ghostlin claimed - there was no need to investigate. A policy lynch D2 is very scummy.

[DarthYoshi]

Hey y'all, I am back in action. A huge thank you to Nexus for holding down the fort the last couple of days.

No votes are currently out, and the deadline to lynch remains unchanged.

[Stels]

1. The wiki is so outdated, that most of it is WIFOM. For example: Last person that hammers is usually scum. It changed to being the first/middle person. Now it's anyone on the wagon can be scum regardless of what vote position they are in. People adapt. Wiki doesn't.
2. I have done a gambit in the past as town, so I don't find the usage of the word to be a scum-tell.
3. You can nitpick anything then. That's just overdoing it, reading too much in between the lines that it usually backfires. Yes, mafia is usually the usage of words and persuasion. Trust me, nitpicking is the last thing you want to do, but do what you want. I'm just stating my belief and past experience in this field.
4. I do not see the third question that you posed to Johhog. If it's the one before where you ask him to explain the gambit, it's already in the thread before TM's lynch and his recent post when you asking him about it, so I really don't see what you were talking about there.
5. True, I am not forced to answer, but because of your case, you are reading more as scum to me, because you are trying to grasp at straws now. Thus I answer it and point your flaws in logic out and prove that you really are trying to come up with reasons to get the wagon on Johhog going that don't really make sense.
6. Did anyone else believe his claim? Did anyone else unvote Ghostlin after his claim? No. Policy lynching Morthas is the next best thing after lynching TM. What I mean here is that Morthas is an eye sore to me in mafia games and vice versa. As you can observe in the first post that I made or when he greeted me, we have a tendency to cast each other into our scum-list.

[DarthYoshi]

Prodding AeRyung.

[AeRyung]

Sorry, been busy with school. I only had time to take glances at the forums -_- I'm overloaded with hw. I will read over everything by tomorrow, hopefully. Talk to you guys then!

[ConSpiracy]

First time I'm doing this, but I am solely posting to avoid a prod.
There is not really much to comment on in the thread (most things Stels say about 4nx's case are right)
I am actually waiting to find some spare time so I can make a case on Johhog myself.

This however caught my eye:

Policy lynching Morthas is the next best thing after lynching TM. What I mean here is that Morthas is an eye sore to me in mafia games and vice versa. As you can observe in the first post that I made or when he greeted me, we have a tendency to cast each other into our scum-list.

2 reasons why you voted Morthas, yet one contradicts the other.

[Stels]

Sorry, you probably don't understand what I meant there. I always get scum-vibes from Morthas regardless of how he performs and I have played with him in multiple games. He is my IRL friend and a lot of the times it's either me or him or someone else of my IRL that is scum, so it's natural for me to suspect them, especially with past games where either me or them was scum. Policy lynching for me is like a ritual per se, or a tradition. I have a tradition of naturally suspecting my IRL friends no matter how pro-town they get, it's just how it works.
Treat that as an excuse, but both of those reasons, the fact that my gut was working on Morthas D2 and that Policy lynching him were both genuine.

[Morthas]

BAH........ (SUPER LATE)

[Johhog]

I don't really know what else to say right now and here is way too quiet... anyone with any questions?

[AeRyung]

I wish I had time to go through this mafia game but my political science + math classes are killing me... If you guys have the time, I would like to hear your opinions on who you think is scum with valid reasons for them. As for me, I'm suspecting Johhog because of his prompt response to his mistake for the last lynch. Comparing everyone's written intellect, I feel that CS is the only one who's witty enough execute the night kills that have occured thus far.

[ConSpiracy]

I wish I had time to go through this mafia game but my political science + math classes are killing me... If you guys have the time, I would like to hear your opinions on who you think is scum with valid reasons for them. As for me, I'm suspecting Johhog because of his prompt response to his mistake for the last lynch. Comparing everyone's written intellect, I feel that CS is the only one who's witty enough execute the night kills that have occured thus far.

I need more than just witty for the accusation that I chose the night-kills.

Torromow I have some spare time and I will start working on a Johhog case.

[4nxi3ty]

Just waiting on CS before making any decisions.

[Stels]

4nxi3ty has been creeping up the scummy-list with his recent posts.
AeRyung still town
CS and Johhog are somewhere on the edge of my reads, one of them has to be scum. Can't tell who. Johhog seems town and CS can't decide who to follow up. Well, didn't know who until now.

[Johhog]

Prod-dodge. Yeah, I'm not writing more than that because there's absolutely NOTHING to comment on. I'm 4nxious to end this day.

[ConSpiracy]

Ok, I fail hard.
I thought I had enough time to make a case, but due to me stalling a bit (and being busy with other games) I have left 30 minutes to make it. I will start with it, but I won't be able to end it today. The first day that I will be able to do something will most likely be thursday, but that is a bit close to the deadline.
I will just speed up the case a bit and hope I can finish it soon enough.

[4nxi3ty]

Prod-dodge. Yeah, I'm not writing more than that because there's absolutely NOTHING to comment on. I'm 4nxious to end this day.

INTENTIONAL PUN! BIGGEST SCUMTELL IN MAFIA!!!LYNCH HIM BEFORE HE CAN THINK OF ANOTHER!

@ stels, you don't need to say aeryung is town it has been the general consensus for some time now.

[ConSpiracy]

I FUCKING HATE THIS!!!
I WAS HALFWAY WITH THE CASE ON JOHHOG WHEN I ACCIDENTALLY CLOSED THE WRONG TAB!!!!!!!!
@#$^@#%&@%#^

At least I still know most of it, so I should be able to make it faster. Possibly I can make it tomorrow.

[ConSpiracy]

Why Johhog is scum. Every time I had some spare time today, I worked on it. Every thing from yesterday I recall being in it, but if I remember something else I will post it.
And I had some spare time, so everyone is lucky with links to posts. I didn't check them though, so there may be some mistakes in them.

Paradox

Before Johhog came in, we had another player, Paradox. Paradox had planned a good short term strategy to avoid being lynched and was replaced at exactly the right time to have it pass unnoticed. He was lurky and the posts that he had he tried to avoid discussions as much as possible and tried to please everyone. His posts are an example of it:
In post 78, he posts that he thinks nobody is suspicious, which pleases every one (no pressure, etc)
In post 96, he posts, after being called out for having no suspicions, that he thinks BKWM is slightly suspicious, who had three votes on him already. (Avoiding, etc)
post 99, he posts why he thinks BKWM is suspicious, after being called out for it again. He gives a very basic answer, again to avoid discussion.
In post 119, his last post, he hardly needed any persuasion to keep him on his stance of the above posts. He tried to stop the discussion as soon as possible and pleased Morthas by saying he was right.
So basicly all he did was avoiding discussion and pleasing others, which is very scummy.

*side-note*

This post of BKWM is a wonderful scum-buddy post to paradox:

@Morthas¶dox: thoughts? even if you have no suspicions, you're opinions can only help us find the scum. when you get the time, paradox, no pressure. Enjoy your family time.

"Hey scumbuddy, please do a bit more! However, do not see this as backstabbing."

Johhog's going with majority.

There are a couple of examples were Johhog just does what everyone thinks. The first example is right after he caught up:
In post 210, he says his four scumreads were Ghostlin, Theam, AeRyung and Soulblade. However he only continues his reads on Ghostlin and Theam. Both were the biggest wagons at that time.
A second example is here:
In post 475, he posts that the night-kill might be done to frame Theam. He did this after both Theam himself (In post 466) and Morthas (In post 469) said this. And after being called out for it, he suddenly changes his opinion to "that's not the reason" (In post 483).
a third example can be found in these posts:
In post 650, he says for the first time that he thinks aobut a CS-Theam scum-team, directly after 4nx said that.
In post 662, he posts that the CS-Theam scum-team looks a lot more possible to him.
And in post 665, I am Theam's scumbuddy. Before 4nx said anything like that he didn't even think of the idea and he switched from "maybe" to "it is" in 15 posts.

Johhog on Ghostlin's claim

When Ghostlin had four votes on him and hiplop asks for a claim, he reacts quite odd. His first reaction (In post 255) he said that Ghostlin claiming VT would mean town should lynch him. That way he gives himself a good reason to place the hammer, as he apparently thought that Ghostlin would claim VT. However, after Ghostlin claimed Jailkeeper, his reaction changes a lot. His first reaction (In post 290) he says he doesn't believe the claim at all, with a reason that Ghostlin was just trying to survive as scum. This is odd, because it wouldn't have mattered what Ghostlin claimed: VT means autolynch, PR means scum trying to survive. That is not everything, though. A few posts later (post 296, post 298 and post 305) Scum always fakes PR to avoid being lynched and the claim shouldn't matter at all to the reads. Johhog bent his "rules" about claiming to his scummy liking, so he has a reason to support the wagon.

Johhog's agreeing with AeRyung

At the end of day 1, AeRyung posted her thoughts about a CS-hiplop scumteam. Johhog agrees (In post 389) with the case she made and apparently thought a CS-hiplop would be a scumteam that made sense. However, 2 posts later (In post 407) he says that hiplop is his best scumread (if Ghostlin flipped town) and I was his best town read. That completely contradicts with his agreement of AeRyung's case. I said something about it back then and he gave some half answer (In post 421) that he only agrees with me possible buddying to hiplop. If that was right, he would have said something about that earlier, but he agreed with everything in AeRyung's case.

Johhog's self-discrediting

A minor, yet addable reason that has to be mentioned, as well. In post 506, he mentions his own gut to be "paranoid" and says his gut feeling for Stels is "not so strong" and "partially OMGUS". It is a common scum tell for new scum to discredit their own reads. They do that, because it is easy to come off as not very confident and this way that's easy to accomplish.

Johhog's nervous reaction

I could make a long story, but first read this post:

If theam self - vote Johog =scum.

If he self-votes as town or scum? What do you mean?

When day 2 was halfway done, Johhog treats Theam as obvious scum. Then 4nx says this, and he suddenly wants to know if 4nx means town or scum. He suddenly isn't sure of his scum read whereas in his other posts the only thing he posts is obv. scum remarks. He is nervous as to what 4nx means, as he doesn't want to have suspcions and therefore totally forgot that he had suspicions on Theam. That's nervous scum.

Johhog's knowing Morthas's role

Last but not least, this post:

I'm a fucking idiot and I think that I basically told scum that Morthas was the doc. More content later, I'm a football (the real, European version :p) referee and have a game soon.

How did he know that Morthas was the doc? How did he know he was the one that told scum that Morthas was the doc? This is a major scum-slip. and his reasoning why is craptastic.

So Johhog is scum. Stels is his scumbuddy, but he will come day 4.

@mod

, when is the deadline?

[AeRyung]

where you iz JOHHOG?!

[Johhog]

If you mean to ask where I am I'm here. I'm preparing a response to the case but I will likely not have enough time to finish it until tomorrow evening.

[DarthYoshi]

@mod

, when is the deadline?

8:00 am, Pacific Daylight Time, Thursday, September 22.