Double Vote Mafia -Mini 1239- Over

[Voidedmafia]

nintendoaddict is scum for having a legitimate reason to vote killerjester pre-confirmation and then dropping it to RVS.

Obv. either killerjester is scum and this was done as light bussing before the votes counted: or killerjester was mislynch material and nintendoaddict forgot to follow through.

Remind me, what reasons again?

Also, I think you borked your tags on this post. I think.

Despite the fact I dislike Hiraki stating his intent to lurk, I actually feel the scenario with kjscum is more likely, esp. given hiphop's points against him.

Still, I'd be wary of him. Even if it would seem like stupid play to just wantonly say "Hey, I'm lurking, 'kay?" doesn't mean he can't still try to be scum slipping under the radar.

Kj: Yes, and people just HAVE to vote when they suspect someone, right, right. You just sit alone in that opinion corner of yours, 'kay?

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: wait, nvm, you didn't. Silly me.

[Voidedmafia]

EBW

[Voidedmafia]

Fuck this stupid laptop.

EBWOQP: Also, please look at the first bolded line in my sig and keep that in mind when you 're asking for replies from me. (the C in "PMC" stands for Central).

[Voidedmafia]

I'm not really seeing this pair-up of KJ/Hip, Christine. Right now, it just seems too contrived to really be anything worth pursuing at the moment.

Gonna go back through in a bit as I work through my slow-ass computer (which I need to get a check-up going on it sometime -_-) to recheck my reads. I pegged JK as scummy early on, and I'm starting to get scumvibes from Christine, but I'd rather not be too hasty about it.

Hip: Yes, we do seem to be in the same game quite often. Maybe we'll actually win this time, eh? ^_^ (And I won't get lynched D1 <_<). BUt what's with that smiley?

[Voidedmafia]

KJ, I can see.

Nintendo, I kinda see, but there are other reasons why he didn't follow up.

Whiskers action...I'd have to see. I don't quite see the scum motivation behind that, either, so I'd put him/her at null for now.

Nice to see that you're so sure, though, Vox. Townpoints for having somewhat managable reasons behind why you think they're scum, even if I'm not going to actually go through with your plan just yet.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: There could be other reasons why he didn't follow up.

[Voidedmafia]

"using a shitty tell he himself didn't believe in" most likely covers that...

also, is "In addition to being scummy" directed at me, or Whiskers?

[Voidedmafia]

I didn't say you were using it as scumhunting. I think the point is that you used a tell you yourself didn't necessarily believe in for whatever you had in mind.

[Voidedmafia]

Hip: Yes, we do seem to be in the same game quite often. Maybe we'll actually win this time, eh? ^_^ (And I won't get lynched D1 <_<).

Way to buddy.

Yes, indeed commenting about previous meetings in games is a sure sign of us buddying together. Bravo.

NS: I think you've made your point. Whiskers didn't realize that protoplasm flaked, and Voided was the replacement. In addition to being scummy, I don't think it's likely that Voided is Whiskers's scumpartner. Do you agree?

Never occurred to me; I don't teamhunt on Day One, as it's useless to so do without flips. however, I have not yet ruled out the possibility that Whiskers is scum. Avoiding questions is very, very bad. As is selective reading.

Also, I don't answer stupid questions. For more info, see, "What timezone are you in?"

That's not a stupid question...

[Voidedmafia]

Voidedmafia's awaited catchup - Page 3

Now, I'm going to start from after ThAd starts the game, so unless anyone can give me a good reason to look over pages 1 and 2, or I find one, I'm ignoring them.

First off, we get a large string of RVS (56/57-61), but the first interesting tidbit is KJ's question about ad hom in 60. Looking back over Nin's posts before then, I didn't particularly see an argument about ad hom, just that he was complaining that there was ad hom already (if he was supposed to have that directed at someone, I didn't get that feel).

Next is Hiraki asking if he can lurking, a sentiment he's held over the entire game so far. Now, I'm not that harsh on lurkers, but considering that he goes on to do so nearly every post (including commenting that there's nothing to comment on), it's strayed into active lurking, and thus I will

Vote: Hiraki

for my first vote.

Highly agree with Whisker's 70 about Hiraki. In regards to KJ, I presume she's talking about KJ intending to vote Protoplasm (and actually do it) even though Proto never picked up his PM.

In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p3433556]71[/i], I don't really like how Vox is jumping straight to "KJ's scum" just because he didn't follow through on an intent to vote. Is that bad play? Yes. Is it necessarily scummy? No, not really.

Current reads as of Page 3:

Vox: Null. I don't mind that he's being, well, cocksure about his reads, but that doesn't mean I don't like it. Still, it rings town to me, so he's nulltown.
Proto: Flaking is bad, in any stage of the game. BAD PROTO, BAD!
me: Town to myself, obv. That, and I need to get moving on this catchup.
Nintendo: Were you really serious about the ad hom stuff, even if you're not going to pursue that line of reasoning anymore? Regardless, you're null.
Christine: Not much of her. Actually, she doesn't have a single post this page, so I can't put her anywhere but null.
Malp: ...where is he?
KJ: Nothing from you yet. Kinda interesting that you'd ask about Nin's ad hom argument, but then I'd be a hypocrite for calling you out because I've done it before.
Friend: Nothing but RVS, so null.
Hiraki: BAD LURKING! BAD BAD!
Alnara: No posts this page, I think.
Whiskers: Nulltown. I'm rather cool to your only content-full post this page, but I do agree with some of the points you made in it, and I'm getting a general town vibe from it.
HipHop: Derp about the rules, man. Your vote on KJ isn't the for best of reasons, but I guess it's the best you've got at this point, so I'll give you the benefit. Still just null.
Nobody:No posts this page, too.

Vote: Nobody Special

. This is ONLY to fufill the stipulation that I must vote two people or none at all since I voted for Hiraki earlier on in this post. This vote will change as I go along in this readthrough.

[Voidedmafia]

Voidedmafia's (maybe) awaited catchup - Page 4

In regards to KJ's post 77, it does seem rather jarring, now that I look back at it. Not quite sure what Vox meant to do there.

#78: First off, uh, no he's not. Those are the only in-game posts he's made so far.
Second, I don't know why he's scummy. That quick unvote and revote is jarring enough to keep him from really being town, yes, but he hasn't really done anything scummy yet.

83: Aurorus, it makes no sense as scum, either. Though I'm still not sure where the ad hom-ing was.

86: In regards to the 2nd part (your reply to 71), I can see where you could find it oppurtunistic. You sure it couldn't just be the timing rather than any sense of "hey, look, he's an easy wagon again!"?

98: Okay, now the insistence of Nin being scum is starting to get rediculous. KJ's post right after gives plenty of explanations as to why he didn't follow up, and it makes you look rather silly, to be frank.

KJ, looking back through this, I got the wrong impression from 92, so sorry about that. I see what you mean by it, so townpoints there!

And then this page finishes out with my laptop being derpy and Hiraki again saying he's lurking.

...Why the hell are you playing if you're just going to lurk through the whole damn game?

Reads as of Page 4:

Vox: Starting to lean scummy now. While it is possible to explain that unvote/revote with just the fact of the timing, I still don't really like it.
Nin: No posts this page. Read remains the same.
Christine: Only two posts, first one "whining" (and I say that in quotes because it may well look like whining, no offense), and correcting who said post was for. Still null.
Malp: Again, where is he?
KJ: Sorry about misrepping you on this page. Understanding what that post means now puts up to leaning town.
Friend: Silence on this page.
Hiraki: Dammit, stop lurking.
Alnara: Again, no posts.
Whiskers: Really, NS isn't vote-hopping, so that's a bad vote. Putting you back down to null.
Hip: No posts.
NS: Just RVS.

Unvote: NS, Vote: Aurorus

as you're the scummiest read I've got so far, excluding Hiraki as he's going to have my other vote permanently until he's dead, replaced, or actually starts participating.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided goes from agreeing with all my posts to having me as scummiest excluding SuperLurker Hiraki despite most other players in the game lurking too

Whee~

Are you scum or a blind townie?

Look at his page 3 reads list. When he even gives a read, they are all null. Oh, wait, except when he calls himself town. But it's the way he said it that I don't like. "Town to myself." wtf.

Reading those last posts by Voided has given me a headache from the constant scumdar pinging.

Unvote hiphop, Vote Voidedmafia

You disagree with how I said "I'm town, obviously"?

url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3434215]86[/url]: In regards to the 2nd part (your reply to 71), I can see where you could find it oppurtunistic. You sure it couldn't just be the timing rather than any sense of "hey, look, he's an easy wagon again!"?

98: Okay, now the insistence of Nin being scum is starting to get rediculous. KJ's post right after gives plenty of explanations as to why he didn't follow up, and it makes you look rather silly, to be frank.

So you've gone from the point of view that nintendo is scum in the first one, to "NinScum is ridiculous" in the second?
Err?

Damn too many scummy players in this game.

KJ, maybe I was wrong about you. Maybe its Whiskers-Nintendo-Voided. When I read these posts I realise I must have been wrong about

someone

anyway >_>"

Um, if you'd actually refer to the post I linked, I'm saying YOU look scummy for potentially placing an oppurtune vote, and that your constant claim of Ninscum is ridiculous.

good try trying to mix up who I'm referring to, though.

Voided goes from agreeing with all my posts to having me as scummiest excluding SuperLurker Hiraki despite most other players in the game lurking too

Whee~

Are you scum or a blind townie?

A.) It's called rereading.

B.) Hiraki is active lurking. Everyone else is simply lurking.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: You disagree with how I basically said, "To me, since I know my role, I'm town"?

[Voidedmafia]

So, in the first you're defending me by saying it could just be timing rather than opportunistic...then in the second you say I'm being ridiculous?
That's even worse.

So I can't continue to deride you for being like Internet Stranger and pushing someone as scum without any real basis for it?

NS: The "he" and stuff in the 2nd part is me replying to Whiskers about Vox.

And yeah, that should be "Votes" not "posts".

I don't like the so called case that hiphop supposedly has. His logic in his back and forth with Christine on the last page was weaksauce.

And it's active lurking posts like these:

All I read is blaaaaaaaaargh.

Nothing new.

That make me want to hurl a brick at my laptop.

In other words, I like where my votes are atm.

At least I'm not hypocritical.

Not seeing NSscum.

Who's being hypocritical?

[Voidedmafia]

FJDIGFHDSIUGFS

I have provided reasons for all of my votes.
Just because you're too stubborn to admit I've caught your buddies is NOT MY PROBLEM.

Never said you didn't give reasons. I'm saying that they're ridiculous reasons without much to indicate that he's scum, and thus your vote is without basis.

[Voidedmafia]

4 have anything useful, and 7 are fluff or essentially fluff.

My point is, he has shown an intense willingness to not participate and not try to do anything this game. 'Course, if you woud just let me get through my catchup...

[Voidedmafia]

@Voided, why do you need to catch up already?
Is it just an excuse to stay behind current happenings and comment on everything AFTER everyone else?

No, I was apparantly wrong in how I thought certain posts felt, and I'm going to make sure I'm not wrong again.

And who said I was gonna stay behind them?

KILLER I THINK YOU MIGHT BE TOWN GIVEN THE TRAGEDY THAT IS VOIDEDMAFIA
NGDHGFD
LET ME THINK ON THIS SOME MORE

Please point to one good reason why you're right, Vox. No, I don't care if you just said it, point to it.

Hiraki: And your reasoning is...?

[Voidedmafia]

fuuu-

Fix my quote tags, plz, ThAd?

done, sorta

NOw then, let's go through these

Quote 1: First off, that's according to PAGE 4. NOT Page 8.

And again, I do not neccesarily respond to simple lurking (though I'm annoyed by it), but I do object to active lurking, which Hiraki was arguably doing during the first 4 pages.

Quote 2: Misrep of what my post was saying. I explained why you were wrong, and I'll get to linking that post when I get back around to it.

Quote 3: Explained why I'm doing it in the post you're replying to.

Anything else?

[Voidedmafia]

You're being a bit too hypocritical for my salty tastes.

And I'm hypocritical...why?

[Voidedmafia]

Voidedmafia's catchup - Page 5

100: Sorry, that post should've been directed at Vox, not you.

102: Yay, more lurking and no help from Hiraki!

103: Or, yknow, he just didn't feel like going that route, like he said? Town should lynch who they think is scummy, yes, but they aso shouldn't lynch who they're not sure about being scummy, and that is another vibe I'm starting to get from that little bit of Nin not voting post-start.

Also, where was support for Nin's vote, anyways?

107: Why is it a scumslip, KJ?

111: Okay, I like this and 112, largely because KJ just made a stupid leap of logic.

114: Sorry, NS, but I don't really get why you're asking Whiskers this.

115: Like the first half, don't quite understand what I'm supposed to glean from "that changes the shape of the table a little bit, doesn't it?"

116: Off-topic question, but who IS that?

118: I wouldn't use ad hom as a scumtell, personally. Both town and scum can do it with equal frequency, so it doesn't really amount to anything useful.

121: Interesting part here is the 3rd and 4th paragraphs. I'll have to go back and look over their little interaction again, apparantly.

Reads as of Page 5:

Vox: No change. 103 does kinda feel like he's trying to misconstrue something, to be honest, but it's not a definite feeling.
Nin: Only post this page is telling Vox that his thing about ad hom was just a statement. Still null.
Christine: Onlly one post asking about EBWOP. Starting to not like the lack of any content, especially since she should've commented about something already.
Malp: Again, where is he?
KJ: tsk, tsk. You pretty much failed to apply a scumtell here, if that's really anything near a scumtell. Not good, Kj. Back down to null with you.
Friend: Apprantly forgot he had more posts. Nothing here, to be frank.
Hiraki: Okay, I like you more now. Good townpoints for those three posts. Now if you can just stop trying to lurk and say you're lurking, we'd get somehwere better. Leaning town.
Alnara: INteresting info in 121. I'll have to look over Hip/KJ on the first two pages later, so he stays null until I can get through that.
Whiskers: small townpoints for sort of calling KJ out for the bad scumtell application, but that's about it. Slightly nulltown.
Hip: No posts. <_<
NS: Not sure why he asking Whiskers that question.

[Voidedmafia]

Hmph. Still should

Unvote: Hiraki

, though.

Vote: Christine

. Get in here. Start commeting. Do something other than ask for definitions.

[Voidedmafia]

I post on everything that I deem interesting or worth commenting on. Or when I see something that I want to ask about, like Alnara's ava.

Whisker: Sure, buddy!

[Voidedmafia]

And Whiskers, please just answer it. NS isn't going to really do shit until you answer it at this rate.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm a guy, btw, Whiskers. Yes, I know Reimu and Sanae can be rather misleading. ^_^

Christine: Glad to see you're starting to try. Anything else you can comment on?

Whiskers: Huh. I guess I've just taken angry responses in stride for now, so I never really considered using it as a scumtell (largely because I've had angry responses to these things, too). But looking it over, it does look like a rather unnecessary blow-up.

But pease, just answer his question. No matter how unrelated to the game it is (even though he's right about why knowing English is important for playing this game well), he's going to be shit, and I don't want that.

NS: I'm not really understanding where she's selectively reading.

Vote: Aurorus

Vote: NS

PLACEHOLDER!

[Voidedmafia]

Vox is still scummy, NS I think is still acting ridicululous, and I can't read Nin. -_-

[Voidedmafia]

@Voided, what do you think of Whiskers?

She's not bad. I haven't really seen much that makes her scummy, just things that I don't like (for instance, her refusing to answer that question isn't scummy, but it's annoying and bringing down NS's play). However, timezones, while small details, can be important when we're wondering why you aren't posting when you can't because, on your side of the world, you're asleep, or something similar.

Hiraki: Did you answer my question about why I'm hypocritical?

Christine: It's not that he was JUST lurking. Please learn to differentiate lurking and active lurking, and how Hiraki's posts prior to 111 were mainly fluff.

^What does that mean? Who was it directed at?

you. At least, if you're talking about the bottom part.

[Voidedmafia]

Malp was VLA, dunno about Friend.

[Voidedmafia]

Besides, it's only been nearly a day since Friend's posted. No need to make too big a deal out of it yet.

[Voidedmafia]

See: Vox's explosions over my change of read on him.

[Voidedmafia]

Liking vox less and less.

NS, that was rather...underwhelming. Surely you can play better than that?

[Voidedmafia]

Vox, can you at least admit you're not doing a great job this game (though better than NS so far, of course)?

Yes, we get it, you want us to be your scumteam this game. Yet you don't have much of anything to back yourself up.

Let me see if I can find your cases:

Whiskers - First part is most likely where she leaves that "AV is scummy" question hanging. And because she's not voting you despite saying you're scum. And because her trying to correct Nin and is railing against the double lynch (with a completely justified reason; I wouldn't want to waste the double-lynch this early, either).

Nin - Um...Not following up on voting KJ post-game-start, which you pretty much did the same thing I did (TOWN DOESN'T GO FOR THEIR NON-SCUMMY PEOPLE, HE'S TOWN. OWAIT, THERE'S NO PRO-TOWN MOTIVE, HE'S SCUM!). Minus the re-reading part, of course.

Oh, and because he mixed up two words. One good thing for you on that last one is that you're not blowing up over this like Nobody is right now. Props. (OMG I'M COMPLIMENTING YOU WHILE I'M CALLING YOU SCUM! WAFFLING!)

me - Changing my view of your after going through two pages worth of a re-read (lolwut?), claiming I'm waffling on you (when I'm not), and...what else?

Nin: Well, at lease you admitted you were wrong.

For Whiskers, you've got maybe 1 good point. For nin, you don't have any, and for me you don't have any.

*slow clap*

NS: Jeez, man, lighten up, will you? Since when did you become Mr. English Nazi?

[Voidedmafia]

Oops. Put the comment toward Nin next to NS.

[Voidedmafia]

...or something?

what's that something?

[Voidedmafia]

Give me your case.
Come At Me, Bro.

'Cause baby tonight, Aurorus's gonna kill your soul again!
'Cause baby tonight, grab your rope, gun and bolt again!

...*ahem* sorry, randomly remembered that Minecraft parody song.

Still, don't really feel like going to see if this really is different play of yours, but I'm not really too trusting. If you are, sucks for you cuz you're just making yourself look scummier; if not, nice try fooling us.

Also, you fail to address my previous post.

[Voidedmafia]

Also, NS, even if I really feel like your case is very underwhelming after all that hounding on Whiskers, that doesn't explain why you had to disregard positng about ANYTHING ELSE.

Sure, you've got posts not about WHiskers here and there, and sure, some of your posts with Whiskers in them aren't all about whiskers. 9 or 10 posts out of your 21 (nearly HALF your posts) detail either asking Whiskers to answer the question or commenting about how she's not, and of those, 4 (5 if you count your case post) (which is also nearly half of those posts) are directly asking Whiskers if English is her native language. And even the posts that aren't all Whiskers don't really do much to promote anything in regards to content (ISO 6 is defining EBWOP for Christine, 8 is fluff, 10 is just about the best post you made up till your case*, 11 really only contains corrections to what I said and isn't helpful at all, 12 is fluff again, 14 (imo) really sounds like a bad justification for this tunneling; only ISO 16-19 actually get anywhere in regards to content).

NS, you've been basically tunneling for some rather lame reasonings, and not really helping the town scumhunt on other people. If your case had been a little bit better, I'd be more wavering on whether or not I'd unvote you, but it isn't, so I'm keeping my votes on NS and Vox.

* Note that I'm not calling your case good, I'm just saying that out of your 21 posts, it's the best one you've made this game.

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: And even then, 16-19 are all about WHiskers and not anyone else.

10, 20, and 21 are practically the only posts you've made that have anything worth mentioning in regards to any of us that aren't Whiskers.

[Voidedmafia]

No, I don't expect you to self-meta, but I'm surprised you're ignoring my post where I basicaly shoot down your reasons for calling Whiskers, Nin, and myself scummy. I mean, I did essentially lay out all three cases, right?

[Voidedmafia]

I'm pretty sure ad hom is attacking the user directly as a argument (you are black/gay/*insert slur* therefore your argument is invalid).

I think the main problem is that that question is too open-ended to determine whether or not she/he (w/e your sex is) was really trying to call you scum or not. I'll give you that it sure looks like she's trying to paint three people scummy while only have 2 votes to paint with, mind, but I do feel that it's not as straightforward as you are probably thinking.

[Voidedmafia]

Friend, do you honestly find no one else besides AVox to be even slightly scummy?

This.

Surely at least one other person jumps out at you?

[Voidedmafia]

In regards to the double-lynch, I'm mainly against using it D1. Much prefer having flips before using it, though we should use it by D3.

Still, I don't see Whiskerscum. While I could agree that, looking it over some, you case is at least plausible enough for me to be convinced Nin might be scum (even if I still kinda think it's a little ridiculous), I'm not as convinced with Whiskers.

P-edit: Well, if we are going to go through with it, I'll just say that I won't support Whiskers being the 2nd lynch. So, between him/her and nin:

Unvote: NS
Vote: Nintendoaddict

[Voidedmafia]

I do agree scum would try to push for a 1 for 1 if he was already going down. But I do not see AVox as scum-going-down at the moment. Most of his suspicions have been pretty warranted, and I only saw a little bit of opportunistic stuff early game. I also think AVox is more likely to be town from how Voided tried to get him lynched in a scummier-than-ever way. On top of that, Voided's recent posts have been, "Yup, gonna agree with what killer says!" There's a good chance he's scum, and scum don't try the kind of stuff Voided tried if AVox is a scum-partner.

Shoo fly, don't buddy me.

UNVOTE: Whiskers
VOTE: Voided

So...if scum don't do the stuff I did, doesn't that make me not scum? *scratches head* or is that supposed to be for Vox and not me?

btw, why exactly was what I was doing scummier-than-ever? I don't think you've explained that.

I'm here. I have my suspects, my votes are staying for now.

I don't like the AV wagon. At all.

Because...? (that's for Hiraki, too).

I really kind of want to wait for a vote count before I vote, but, I don't mind hammering at the same time. Or putting at L1 or L2.

Unvote, Unvote.

Vote: AurorusVox
Vote: Voided

And your reasoning is what?

its more how he said it. and while we might not have one. the odds of us having one is way higher. i mean have you ever played a game without one in it, or a way to compensate for not having one? i bet even if you have they tend to be very far spaced apart.

Meh, non-cop games can be rather common. Granted, they are more the exception, but they're not as rare as you're making them out to be.

I've already made my cases. Try reading.

I read one (Whiskers). It's crap.

Try harder, man. You can do better -_-.

[Voidedmafia]

I think she's stuck with what happens after the lynches, Vox. I think.

[Voidedmafia]

Yeah...

Besides, either the debacle between vox and me has been settled, or one of us missed a post somewhere.

And I still really haven't seen why I'm a suspect. (that's to anyone who voted me after KJ did without reasoning; KJ has his own question of mine to answer)

[Voidedmafia]

@Void, in #165 you talk about how it's possible AVox fell victim to bad timing, rather than truly voting me out of opportunism. You're providing rationale for an implied town perspective. In the same post you accuse AVox of being scummy and vote him.

You're scummier-than-ever for the contraction in agenda within a single post. I believe AVox to be town simply because he was the target of your attack - I think scum would be less wishy washy when bussing their own partner.

I supplied a possible reason, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I believe what happened--and with Vox's further posts after that, I didn't.

Furthermore, it is entirely possible to turn your whole read around after reading two posts after each other, is it not? While I didn't really do a whole 180 (more like a 90), the same message is being applied here in regards to 86 and 98.

I have not been wishy-washy, or at least I've tried not to be. My switch to Nin was based on the fact that, while I was mainly against the double-lynch today, signs pointed toward it happening anyways, and I wished to then vote for both since I found one to be scum (Vox) and one that, between the two choices presented, was the scummiest of the two (Nin). Note that I have never wavered from believing Vox is scummy since I made that vote (which, btw, while made from past actions, solidified in the present, in case Vox tries that angle again).

[Voidedmafia]

Why are we still talking scumteams without flips?

[Voidedmafia]

So can I get some clarity here?
Voided, you think me and Nin are cross-bussing; and Friend Marisil, you think me and Whiskers are cross-bussing?#

You? Maybe. You've got the skills for it.

nin?...eh...I suppose...I just see you being more likely to bus than I see Nin.

Still, if you two are cross-bussing, Nin kinda feels more...authentic, kinda. Like he didn't expect you to start bussing him, or something like that.

[Voidedmafia]

I mean, his defense sounds more like he wasn't expecting a bus, and thus is more genuine.

And yeah, I derped trying to make a distinction.

[Voidedmafia]

We meet again, RD.

Also, my top pick is Vox, and it hasn't really moved since I put it

As for the massclaim, I can kinda see how it'd mess up scum, since its so jarring and they'll probably have to start scrambling to get themselves prepared to fakeclaim. You always start out strong, don't you, RD?

[Voidedmafia]

...okay.

Just a VT, pony.

Now I want dat popcorn on Vox.

[Voidedmafia]

RD, is that why you believe AV isn't scum? Or is there more to it?

Even if what you say here is true, that doesn't make Vox any less scummy in my eyes.

Alnara: Yes, thank you for basing your "complete read-change" on something that's 15 pages ago. Also, RD's case on Nin solidifies my vote on Nin even more, though Vox is still my prime suspect.

[Voidedmafia]

I will note that it is bad form to answer a question that was specifically directed at someone else.

I wanted their answer. Now I can't get it.

Thanks.

The parallels to the whole mass claim are blindingly obvious.

unvote Hiraki
Vote Alana

Will you respond to my responses now or are you just going to try and sneak in the AV wagon while backing down?

Extra reasoning would be beneficial. Especially since your last post seemed to have Vox labeled as town and me labeled as scummy.

[Voidedmafia]

Extra reasoning would be beneficial. Especially since your last post seemed to have Vox labeled as town and me labeled as scummy.

Explain what?

My Alana read, you read or AV read?

Oh, sorry. THat was an addon for Alnara, not for you. Sorry for not making that clearer.

Also can you give me a case on AV here?

Well, robotnik summed up one point with the votehopping.

As for the others, refer to 165 (ISO 11) (btw, the "98" should be "89". Don't know how I made the same mistake again), 247 (ISO 29), 278 (ISO 31).

Also, where's your "real" votecount, RD?

Lol@robotnick using NS's own tactic against him. Speaking of, you didn't answer his first question, NS.

[Voidedmafia]

Given RD's last "real" VC, that'd be Nin, which I'd be fine with.

[Voidedmafia]

psst, it's "Alnara", not "Alana".

[Voidedmafia]

Erm, Whiskers? What question? 521?

[Voidedmafia]

Oh, you're just adding emphasis for him. I thought you were referring to a different question. My bad.

[Voidedmafia]

RD, it's ALNARA -_-. Are you trying to misspell it on purpose or something?

Robotnik (can I please leave out the c?): The logic behind RD's "real" VC is to hold us accountable for our primary vote, so we can't go "oh, he was just my secondary pick" after the lynch. RD could explain it better, but I think that's the gist of it.

Nin, I hope to god you're scum.

[Voidedmafia]

What? It's shorter and easier to write than the two alternatives.

[Voidedmafia]

I'd be glad to sheep Friend, but not Robot. I like Robot and think he's town and whatnot.

I still find NS scummy (unless someone can convince me otherwise), and I suppose I'll have to accept Vox as being town for now.

Vote: NS

Vote: Friend

[Voidedmafia]

Voidedmafia cuz of his defense of dash in twilight (it wasnt necessary),

That word. It is not used how you should be using it.

A.) I was answering a question as to why RD had a separate votecount.
B.) Said answer did not (or should not have) defended RD in any way, though if I remember the post in question, I might've added in my own two cents about why I agree with her.

and cuz of how quickly he jumped on my wagon.

It's a wagon I like, I like sheeping RD, and the case against you was explained enough in my eyes that I didn't think I could add anything to it. Simple.

So, can we get that awesome robot wagon?

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnope.

Pleaseee?

No.

Or at least somepony trying to explain why NS is scum here, or even why robot is town?

Robot is town cuz of his opening post as well as his posts today. Yes, the part about saying Nin's scumhunting is rather...eh, disappointing, for lack of a better word, but that alone isn't enough to make me consider him as scum.

NS is scum cuz of his Mega-Whiskers-tunneling. Even got a post outlining how much he was tunneling, if you want me to link it.

Also, why lynch me if robot scumflips?

[Voidedmafia]

I'm terrible at making cases

- Gave a town perspective for one of AVox's early game actions in his catch-up posts, only to turn around and push the notion of AVox-scum

Because i can't do a complete 180 on a read in the span of a post?

- Shamelessly buddies me in #308/#309 and again in #331/#332[/spoiler]
308: How is that buddying, exactly? I was just as incredulous as you sounded then about Friend not trying to give any clear view one way or the other, you just beat me to it and I quoted you to show that I was of the same mind.

332: Again, if it was going to come down to a double-lynch, and people were actually gonna be serious about it, I was going to vote for AVox, who I felt was scummiest at the time, and Nin, who I felt was scummiest between Whiskers and Nin (and I still don't see Whiskers as scum, btw).

RD: One sec, lemme find the posts and link 'em.

[Voidedmafia]

@VM - What is your NS case?

Really just 286, but that's really all that needs to be said. Oh, and pushing for your lynch just because he thinks your gambit was stupid and thus makes you scum.

Really like Robotnick after that Friend case. As for Hiraki, that's rather...shitty meta, to be honest. Friend would be my pick for the lynch (if we're gonna single-lynch again), but I wouldn't mind a Hiraki lynch now.

[Voidedmafia]

If there's one scum of Whiskers-NS, it's NS.

And you ALWAYS have reservations about me <_< (well, in regards to the only game we've completed together and this one, anyways)

I still honestly want to get NS roped with Friend, and thus my vote will stay with him, but I can move my vote over to Hiraki for a hammer or L-1 or something similar.

[Voidedmafia]

@VM - What is your NS case?

Really just 286, but that's really all that needs to be said. Oh, and pushing for your lynch just because he thinks your gambit was stupid and thus makes you scum.

So your case is 400 posts old?

Yet still relevant enoug to be pushed.

I really dont see his push on me as a scumtell, more a derpy tell.

derptell or not, it's not a good push at all, and with NS's rather bad push on Whiskers (which my 400-post-old post helps describe), it doesn't make NS look good at all.

Plus I think he wouldn't have killed Alana, I can see that kill coming from only a small group of ponies.

Who do you think might've killed Alnara, then?

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount plz, ThAd?

Really want to take my NS vote off and put it on Hiraki, but I'd rather wait for an official votecount to be sure that I'm not hammering.

Hiraki, you're right, you're not trolling in the /b/ sense (acting a certain way to get us riled up), but you are. NOT. HELPING. At ALL. Yes, I probably sound like I'm sheeping Vox here, but he's practically hit the nail on the head and shoved it home--no point in me denting the wood.

[Voidedmafia]

Thank ya

Unvote NS, vote: Hiraki

[Voidedmafia]

Imposing...huh?

Why/How are we imposing views when what Vox and others has outlined is a near-objective truth about your play so far?

[Voidedmafia]

Wait, Whiskers. Explain again why I'm scummy again?

There would be little point in trying to set up this plan that Christine "unintentinally" hammers because getting one lynch today instead of two (and thus intentionally getting a HELL of a lot of suspicion on me for (admittedly) making that happen) would be rather counter-productive. If I was scum, the double-lynch would still be important as I'd either A.) get two townies at the same time offed, or B.) be able to get a town offed with their partner.

Of course, B would be less desirable than A, obviously, but both are far more worthy plans for scum to consider than only getting one today.

I plead ignorance for forgetting about Christine in all this, and I suppose I'll just have to accept blame for putting Hiraki ahead of FM (Hindsight's always 20/20 <_<), but for crying out loud, Whiskers, I wouldn't be this stupid as scum to heap all this doubt and these accusations against me for practically nothing gained. It makes no sense.

Christine: That still doesn't absolve you of not noticing the votecount, yknow. Am I at fault for not leaving Hiraki and FM at the same number of votes in my eagerness to get my vote on Hiraki and forgetting said mandate? yes. But don't start blaming NS or myself for not voting or for adding votes that YOU missed.

[Voidedmafia]

Besides, RD doesn't believe the "innocent hammer", and no one should <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

Simple day, no?

Vote: Friend

Vote: Christine

[Voidedmafia]

He said it's just a placeholder...

But I can double-unvote if necessary.

[Voidedmafia]

I am a little confused about Robotnick...

His vote unbalanced the votes for Friend and you. By unvoting, the counts are now balanced.

DOes that answer your concern, or am I missing something?

[Voidedmafia]

Christine, I think I know why you want Robot dead, but just to be sure, why exactly are you labeling him as scum?

I like Whisker's 747. She's keeping her options open and being ready to roll with the flips should they not end the game or not flip scum (which I hope at least FM does). Hard slight to RD, though. Ouch.

[Voidedmafia]

RD still has somewhat of a point about the hammer, though.

As I stated before D2 ended, any scum would be absolutely stupid if they just went and hammered like that, especially if they were actually going to get two townies lynched at the same time (assuming Friend is going to flip town, which is unlikely). The play itself was unimaginably stupid, and definitely good grounds for a vote the next day, but after thinking on it, I can't quite be as quick to call it scummy as I was earlier in D3.

unvote: Christine, vote Nobody Special

. Should the need to unvote Friend (or revote Christine, should she drop back to being scummy enough to vote) arise, I will do so.

[Voidedmafia]

NOPONYSPECIAL VOTERS:

WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR NOPONY SPECIAL?

Need reads or reason, VM. This isn't fucking RVS.

You REALLY want me to dig up an argument I've presented twice already? (and is still relevant enough to make NS scummy)

I've explained why NS is scummy, along with extras added here or there.

[Voidedmafia]

It wasn't until Day 2 that you said confidently he was scum. You

did

mention him offhandedly in several of your Day o1 posts, you

did

vote him with out explanation several times, or just as a "placeholder vote," You

did

unvote him a couple of times with out any good reason listed.

I'll go back and read on from Day 2, but it looks more like weak bussing to me.

Hmm. I seem to remember unvoting (or not voting) due to other players acting scummier than him.

D1 I didn't vote because Vox (and later nin) were acting scummier.
D2 I did vote him, but then Friend and Hiraki became our top suspects, Hiraki moreso than Friend thanks to his interaction with Vox.
And I just voted him now in D3 because I'm not as confident in Christine being our second in the double-lynch.

[Voidedmafia]

The other thing that is odd, is that your case for Nopony Special for being scummy is that he was stubborn about me answering the question, and then his bad case on me afterwards, but now it's just because, "I'm not confident in the Christine lynch."

The case still applies. But with Christine dropping out as a suspect, he comes right back up to the forefront.

From what I can recall of his posts as of late (late D2-now), he hasn't really done a whole lot, either in this game or to change my mind.

Whiskers, I understand if you find my wording strange, as that's probably not the best way to put it. But I had to shift him down to a lesser scumread in light of what went on near the end of D2, and with one of the two pepople that were the prime suspects going into D3 out of that spotlight, he comes right back up.

(...I feel like I was overly redundant in this post...)

[Voidedmafia]

I still want Christine Lynched

. I can handle a Nopony Special lynch. My mind is full of fuck and I can make a couple of scumteams, but I am stuck on Rainbowdash being scum.

Given that you just said a couple posts ago you're not confident in Christine's lynch, is this supposed to say "I still want FRIEND lynched"?

[Voidedmafia]

No, you said that. I said that I wasn't confident in her lynch-- meaning that I'm not confident she will be lynched. Read what I said.

"I'm no longer confident in her being out double lynch either, although I'm still confident that she

should

be."

Ah. My apologies, then.

[Voidedmafia]

I wish I knew, Kj.

ThAd: I'm voting NS now, not Christine. Friend vote is correct, though.

fixed

[Voidedmafia]

I would appreciate it if there was no speculating about the replacement

Too late, man. <_<

If its something you can discuss post-game, I can wait, but if not, we'll have to wait for RD to explain this when she's ready. And that doesn't include confrontations, Whiskers. -_-

[Voidedmafia]

So, like, do we need the threat of the deadline to get people to start working again, or...?

[Voidedmafia]

Friend is being lynched today, no questions.

The REAL question is whether people will back either a Christine lynch, an NS lynch, or some other lynch to go with Friend, and that's really what everyone needs to ask themselves.

I've said that I'm more wanting to lynch NS now than Christine, but I can always re-even out the VC with a Christine revote or Friend unvote if necessary.

[Voidedmafia]

Whiskers, could you please either unvote Friend or vote NS to keep the votes even?

[Voidedmafia]

Christine and VM, same question I gave to Whiskers. Do you see FM/NS as a scumteam or just one of them being scum for sure but you don't know which?

I find them scummy, yes. As a scumteam? We'll see.

[Voidedmafia]

Apparantly not. <_<

Cmon, let's not abandon THIS game, too. -_-

Also, to elaborate a little bit on what I said, I see FM and NS as scummy, but not necessarily scummy together. Therefore, I'm not quite positive as to my views on what their scumflips do to implicate the other. I'd lean more towards FMscum implicating NS than NScum implicating FM right now.

[Voidedmafia]

I kinda feel like it should be used by today, but that's just me, I think.

So long as FM is one of the lynches today, I'll be satisfied.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm down with that.

Now we just need everyone else to get in here -_-

[Voidedmafia]

Is that, "Yes, I mind evening the votes" or "Yes, I'll go ahead and even them up"?

[Voidedmafia]

Considering we have 1-2 days left (assuming ThAd is using a 3-week deadline), I'd hope we could get to decision time soon.

[Voidedmafia]

Ah. Too used to having set deadlines.

[Voidedmafia]

Christine and FM are both L-2

Yeah, but the votes on them aren't square--that is, it's set up so that someone off of BOTH wagons has to be the double-hammer, and likewise for L-1, most likely, because one vote on each wagon (yours for Christine and mine for FM) are not matched on the opposite wagon. Bv may or may not put them up to L-1 (at which point I might suggest that I unvote FM and request KJ to unvote Christine just to be safe), and then someone completely off the wagon will have to do the rest (might be myself, if I'm convinced to get back on the Christine wagon). Even if bv doesn't doublevote them, I still think it'd be prudent for KJ and I to unvote Christine and FM, respectively, to keep the votes "even". Thoughts?

Also, KJ, why Christine/me? Christine, why FM/me? Am I (using myself since I'm the common denominator for both teams) scummy independent of who I'm paired with, or is there some sort of interaction that's pegged us?

[Voidedmafia]

Robotnick, NS, bv, or Whiskers are gonna have to put on the last two votes, then.

KJ: why am I, again? I know you suspected me earlier, but I'd think you'd have something more to show for it now.

[Voidedmafia]

Robotnick2's here, just got nothing to say. I realise I'm not being exceptionally helpful, but I really don't have anything to say.

This tells me enough to make me question myself about you.

FM is either a saddle-sore noob townie or a caught scum. She won't be contributing anything useful anytime soon. Or ever, for that matter.

I wouldn't say "ever" just yet. Unless she starts making posts that sound a whole lot like "Whatever, I don't care, just get it over with" (and IIRC her latest posts didn't have that feel).

[Voidedmafia]

No, sorry, I meant "ever" this game.

On the other hand, there is hardly any resistance (open resistance, anyway, hmmm....) to her wagon.

My statement still stands, then.

And that's very true.

NS: You're not helping.

[Voidedmafia]

Figure of speech. I really should re-read and try to do the right thing in this game. But the motivation, it is not to be found....

I think this is the reason why nearly everyone is at varying degrees of inactiveness. Lack of a deadline lessens the incentive to get anything done, and coupled with no wagons going anywhere means the game is as dead as a doornail, almost.

I know I need to re-read robotnick, though.

[Voidedmafia]

Figure of speech. I really should re-read and try to do the right thing in this game. But the motivation, it is not to be found....

I think this is the reason why nearly everyone is at varying degrees of inactiveness. Lack of a

deadline

lessens the incentive to get anything done, and coupled with no wagons going anywhere means the game is as

dead as a doornail,

almost.

I know I need to re-read robotnick, though.

I'm...not sure what you're trying to say here, Whiskers. Are you bolding what is true about this game?

It's been chock full of AtE's and "Let's lynch FM" posts

I had noticed that as the day dragged on, though I didn't pay it much attention. I could agree it might be scum desperate for a mislynch, though it could be annoyed town desperate for a lynch, however unlikely.

im here and im caught up, and im not that bad of a noob. i mean come on i made it to day 3 hahahaha

And posts like this are one of the many reasons why I, at least, want you lynched.

If you're caught up, like you say, why not enlighten us as to what you think, instead of complaining about being called a noob.

(note: making it to D3=/=you're not a bad noob)

[Voidedmafia]

(Bit of an unofficial VC so I know where we stand)

Voidedmafia - 1 (killerjester)
Christine - 4 (killerjester, Friend Mairsil, bvoigt, Nobody Special)
Robotnick2 - 4 (bvoigt, Christine, Whiskers, Nobody Special)
Friend Mairsil - 2 (Voidedmafia, Christine)
Whiskers - 1 (Friend Mairsil)
bvoigt - 1 (Whiskers)
Nobody Special - 1 (Voidedmafia)

Actually, it looks more like I'm the double-hammer, since KJ already has his vote on Christine. And while I'm not particularly keen on a CHristine lynch, I can still do it if no one objects.

And just to make sure that I won't mess up anything,

Unvote all

Christine: I would prefer a friend lynch over you, of course, but KJ's refusal to lynch Friend got in the way of that.

[Voidedmafia]

I'm assuming VM is smart enough not to botch the double hammer here, although scum could probably risk it-- the sacrifice would be worth it, I suspect. That said, if one of you flips scum, the gut towncred I'd be willing to give out for a successful 2hammer disintegrates.

Don't worry, I have little to no intention of botching this one.

Also, just so I'm not confused, is the last line (the one about gut towncred) directed at whoever does the doublehammer (presumably me at this point)?

[Voidedmafia]

You. If you do it, and one of them is scum, you---

You know, I don't know what the hell I was saying.
I

believe

I was saying that if they are both town, you get towncred for hammering them, but if one flips scum, you don't.
I have no fucking idea. Just ignore me, I'm clearly not in my right mind.

Er...okay.

Anyways, I can hammer before I got to bed (which will probably be in 3-4 hours), or I can hammer when I wake up tomorrow. I would like both Robo and Christine to get their suspects and such out (and for Robo to claim, since I think Christine's already claimed VT) before I do hammer.

[Voidedmafia]

Christine - 3 (killerjester, Friend Mairsil, bvoigt)
Robotnick2 - 3 (bvoigt, Christine, killerjester)
Friend Mairsil - 1 (Christine)
Whiskers - 1 (Friend Mairsil)

Can we get a more official VC sometime soon, please, ThAd?[/i]

Whiskers: uh, what's fascinating? I've been rooting for the FM lynch for some time.

[Voidedmafia]

Are we still trying for a double lynch today?

Kinda have to, so yeah.

Why does the 2nd option have to keep changing?

[Voidedmafia]

I guess it could be you, VM. We could just stick it there.

It changes because players have become active again and can advocate for themselves.

Heh, true.

Well, everyone except Friend, at least. <_< And Christine.

[Voidedmafia]

Would be voting Friend and either Christine or Robot, but since Friend is at L-1, I don't want to screw this up again.

[Voidedmafia]

Looking over Whisker's ISO, it's quite obvious (to me, at least).

She was one of, if not the most vocal supporter of your lynch, and you wanted to get her out of the way and probably hope something else would pop up to save your ass. Not comin' this time.

Vote: Christine

Vote: Nobody Special

(quasi-placeholder?)

[Voidedmafia]

How did I want to get her out of the way? At no point did I try to vote off Whiskers.

Vote Voided and Nobodyspecial

because neither of them seem to want to make any sense. Look at those two if y'all decide to lynch me.

Well, of course you wouldn't try to get her lynched, cuz pretty much nobody sane would've followed you. Hence, you went with the NK instead.

[Voidedmafia]

Once again I am made confident of bvoigt's townieness. Glad to see that someone else is thinking some reason. I agree that I see no likelihood of voided being scum.

So you don't think I'm scum, just insane?

Christine makes sense as scum due to the NK (no matter how you say otherwise, Whiskers's death benefits you the most as scum), while Robotnick is starting to look scummy from recent play (and in part by bviogt's case on Robo).

[Voidedmafia]

So, you gonna ignore my previous posts where I've already stated why?

Also, you COULD off bviogt, but there's still Whiskers to contend with. It's exactly BECAUSE she was vocal that is the greatest threat to you because she could swing people who were already thinking about you as suspicious to want you dead, and probably getting the other remaining person to think of you as suspicious.

Considering that most/all of us are considering either you or Robotnik to be the remaining scum (at least from what I've seen), your best bet on living is to get Robotnick dead and have somone replace you as the most suspicious, and killing Whiskers offers you a better chance at doing that.

[Voidedmafia]

I really don't get how me lynching whiskers would have been my best move if I was mafia.

ayayayaya...

Whiskers has been the most vocal in wanting your lynch, yes?
The rest of us have been see-sawing on whether or not to lynch you, yes?
You and Robotnick were the two choices for lynching today, yes? (though people can correct me if I'm wrong about this)

You can agree at least two of these are true, I hope?

[Voidedmafia]

Not exactly.

Remember that I said that pretty much only Whiskers was wanting you dead (and has generally wanted you dead most of the game)? Killing her might very well put a target on your back, that's true. However, you could just pull "I'm being framed!" and get away with it more or less so long as you don't slip up. Or, if you stepped up, you could convince us otherwise.

And again, by getting the most vocal person out of the way, it leaves you with more room to work with.