Mini 1246 - Bizarro Mafia: ...Mate! Who won?

Pads · Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:49 am

Heya all, good luck to everyone.

It's a little tricky to do a RVS without the ability to vote during the day. I suppose we'll have to invent our own lingo. Probably not a bad idea so we can keep track of people's suspicions. Pending Vote: Darox, perhaps?

pVote: Darox

...for beating me to the punch with an animated animal avatar.

And I really don't think of this as night. I think of the game rules as more taking the town out of our comfort zones and removing some of the benefits normally associated with the town. We won't be able to watch trains form until after the person is dead and the lynch majority requirement, which really is almost like a safety net there to protect us (especially in lynch or lose) is gone.

In return, we get a second power role over what might be considered normal, a PR-less mafia, and a tracker whose value is slightly higher than normal thanks to the open setup.

Should be an interesting game.

Pads · Post Post #113 (isolation #1) » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:49 am

I am currently in between two 14 hours shifts at work, but this post will be a summary of where my thinking is at, with more in depth reasoning to come.

If VisceraEyes is scum, he's doing a good enough job of fooling me.

Other than his taking the random questions seriously, I like the cut of TehBrawlGuy's jib enough.

Leaning slightly town on Junpei.

I'm not leaning one way or the other on Mozamis or Otolia yet.

I've got nothing and more nothing on Hiplop.

Ace's belief that someone is scum but shouldn't be lynched is a little oddly phrased. I mean, is there something else you're waiting for, Ace, other than your belief someone is scum to champion their lynch? Proof that he's scum? A little unrealistic, no? I guess wanting to see the wagon first is fine, but it seems a little limp-wristed to be coming from a townie to me.

Darox and Whiskers are easily at the top of my scum list. Both have approached the answering of the questions, not as a way to start conversation, but as a way to participate in a conversation to placate the suspicions of the town. Whiskers, in particular, has a couple of instances where he seems to be interested in making sure the town is satisfied with his participation and any suspicions of him placated, a scum trait in my book all day long.

I'm willing to accept different approaches to playing mafia, but not wanting to discuss his suspicions is straight up anti-town. Whiskers, are you really planning on denying us your insights until the last seventy two hours of each day, so as to 'not aim the scumkill'? Pssstt... the scum know who the town are. They know which townie is the most correct in their scumhunting far better than you do if you're town. That you would even be trying to PR hunt is a further indication that you are not town, though, and you have my pending vote.

Unfortunatley, I'm out of time. I will expound upon the above thoughts and talk more about Darox when I have the opportunity.

Pads · Post Post #134 (isolation #2) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:15 pm

Otolia, Ace, TehBrawlGuy, Junpei, VisceraEyes, and Mozamis all get a pass from me today. They're active, they're posting content, and if I'm going to lose to scum, I'd rather lose to scum like that rather than scum that don't work for it at all. Also, if they're scum, it'll be easier to discover late game than with the people who aren't doing anything of value.

Speaking of doing nothing of value, Wasabi and Hiplop, despite wasting internet space, have each shown a few glimmers of behavioral patterns I associate with townies, so they'll get a pass from me today as well. Specifically, Wasabi acknowledges his uselessness, speaks of it as though it's something to correct, and has an overall tone of genuine frustration at the lack of knowledge gained thus far. In Hiplop's case, he's almost daring someone to call him a scum and lynch him, as if he knows he'll get the last laugh ("I told you I wasn't scum"). Not the strongest reads, I'll grant, but good enough for me for now.

Darox shares some of that same tone in his posts (unless I misinterpreted it, his last post insulted everyone's proficiency at Mafia), but he has a few other moments that keep him on my scum list. First he called the random questions useless, and then, at the first whiff of pressure, he happily caves and treats those questions seriously. Here's the quotes:

Darox wrote:
Those questions are useless.

Junpei wrote:
They help me scumhunt, Darox. Do you still refuse to answer them?

Darox wrote:
Sure, I'll answer them.

Uh.. what? I don't know about you guys, but if I felt the questions were worthless (and I do) and someone asked me if I refused to answer them, I would say yes. Even if I did decide to answer them at that point, it would include a statement such as "If I must...". Except, of course, if I was scum. If I was scum, I wouldn't want to fight about it. I would want to slink away from attention so as to reduce my chances of being lynched. I would just answer the questions and be done with it. And that's exactly what happened here. Darox mocked the questions when he didn't have the focus of another player, and took them seriously when he did. He quickly made sure to subdue Junpei's in him so that he could resume flying under the radar.

It wasn't the only occurence, either. The act of placation happened again.

Darox wrote:
Can we get a fake hammer in here?

TehBrawlGuy wrote:
....do you people have some confusion with what content is?

Darox wrote:
I fake don't even fake know what the fake votecount is up to, but fake you should be fake voting him so that he's one fake step closer to fake lynch.

Translation: 'I don't even know what's going on right now so I can't possibly be held responsible for anything scummy I might have done. Also, everything I'm doing right now is fake and means nothing, so no one need to pay attention to me.'

And, no, the sarcasm is not lost on me. But use of the word 'fake' rather than, say, 'pending' is an indication that he finds the wagon not just less potent than a normal game's wagon, but altogether useless. He's entitled to his opinion, but he's

again

spending time on things he believes are worthless

. Plainsight lurking in its clearest form.

I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over his Night 1 lynch, but he's not my first choice.

Internet Stranger has posted very little, but that's not why he's high on my scumlist.

Internet Stranger wrote:
If I had to pick a scum, it would probably be Mozamis.

You DO have to pick scum, assuming you're a town playing towards their win condition. That would be enough to gain my suspicion, and likely a vote, but the post that came before this one is even worse in my opinion.

Internet Stranger wrote:
Mozamis looks like he is trying too hard at something, but I havent quite figured out what yet.

"I haven't quite figured it out..." is a line that comes out from time to time in mafia games and is a red flag in my book. Used in this context, I believe it to be a scum slip that can be translated into "I haven't made up the reason yet". He's not going to analyze, probe, test a wagon or ask questions like a townie would. Instead, he's going to fabricate a reason for his invented suspicion.

No problem putting a vote here tonight, but still not my first choice at the moment.

ThirdKoopa is my first choice.

He has two posts, both of which are terribly scummy within the context of having no other posts. The first post does nothing more than answer the random questions. Worthless, but might meet the lowest standards of acceptable for a RVS phase, except that he doesn't post again until after he's challenged by the town. Curiously, it was very soon after.

In his second post he was clearly highly concerned with placating the town, even more so than the first.

ThirdKoopa wrote:
I'm here anyways. What questions have I missed? I need to take a re-read here.

Oh and I haven't voted yet.

"Lurking? That's scummy, heck no I'm not doing that, I am here and ever-present, for I am town! Look at how I make sure I'm not missing any questions sure to answer all questions like a good townie does!

Suspicions, thoughts, and reads? Oh, I have them, you betcha, but I'm not going to say a peep about them, because I want to read the entire thread a second time, so that no nefarious scum slips through my ever vigilant net of justice. For I am town and catching scum is what I do, and I want to make extra sure of my highly polished and researched suspicions before I post them in thread, for I do not want to mistakenly lynch one of my precious, innocent co-townmates!"

Yeah, this post is not only nothing, but it's an indication of a game-long commitment to nothing. Nothing we can hold him to, the nothing that he's going to attempt to uncover for himself, and the nothing he would be worth in lynch or lose.

Nothing in this post suggests that he has any interest in helping find scum (because he already knows the setup, perchance?). Instead, it appears that he only has an interest in removing attention from himself. "What questions have I missed?" Uh, go read the thread. "I need to go re-read." Oh, so you already read the thread but you weren't interested in answering any questions then. It's only now that you've earned the attention of the town that you care about answering them? Scum, scum, scum. And let's not forget the utter lack of anything that could even try to pretend to be content.

unvote, PendingVote:ThirdKoopa

Pads · Post Post #135 (isolation #3) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:19 pm

Btw, Ace, I have a feeling that Whiskers is not going to deliver on his intention to vote for VisceraEyes tonight.

Pads · Post Post #138 (isolation #4) » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:47 pm

No, your tone in that post was not lost on me. As I said, you share some of the same tonal qualities that have me leaning town on Hiplop.

But you've spent so little time on anything I'm left to come to the conclusion that those questions were important to you to some degree because you spent time on them.

Insulting other people is clearly important to you, too. If only scum hunting were important to you. Perhaps it's not important to you because you already know who the scum are. Guess it's better to stay silent. Don't want to risk directing the scum's Day 2,3,4 kills, no?

Pads · Post Post #143 (isolation #5) » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:42 am

Tut, tut. Only Darox gets points for being cheeky with me.

That you would mock, and therefore discourage, people to look for clues (a la sherlock holmes and son) is certainly a bold thematic choice for your first non-setup related post longer than one sentence.

Also curious is that you decided to

defend against

parry

sidestep

comment in reference to

my

case against you, since I'm not even the one voting for you at the moment. Nervous much?

The sad reality is that the town isn't going to have enough time to challenge all of the lurkers, do-nothings, and vote switchers (people who don't vote the way they say they're going to). But I, for one, will always take a moment of joy every time I hear the "I WILL DO STUFF LATER!!" defense.

Pads · Post Post #196 (isolation #6) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:42 pm

Hiplop wrote:
Drips case is BAD.

Did you just call me Drips?

Hiplop wrote:
ACE is scum, and its pretty obvious too. His posts are actually complete fluff and/or repeated knowledge. Its EXACTLY what he did in a previous game with him. (ACE SCUM in game)

You keep talking about meta, hiplop, but just so you know I have no use for it, and here's one of the reasons why. Ask yourself why you needed the third sentence.

Internet Stranger wrote:
I prefer to keep the votes undeclared, at least day 1. Youre going to get more information from possible scum voting blocks from the reveal tomorrow than these big public executions. Scum know this. Scum are TERRIFIED of this. If scum dont know how townies are going to vote, who would they vote for? Do they jump in two together on someone? Do they spread the votes out? So much information is going to be present tomorrow, but its all going down the toilet if we let the scum manipulate our votes during the day.

A bold intiative, not without merit, that contains a number of potential benefits and pitfalls. My problem with it, though, is that it comes at the end of the day when it should have been your very first post if you felt this way.

Darox can talk about Vuvuzelas all he wants, but if either one of you is a townie that thought eight other townies were going to read your minds AND agree on this being the correct strategy AND be willing to execute it, then I'd say you were over-optimistic to a fault.

My point is that, coming now, after the minimal activity of the day, this stinks of being an excuse for it, rather than the cause of it.

I read a game on this site once where the entire game was played without content. Players were only allowed to post votes. The town lost, but they came very close, one misvote in lynch or lose. So, I do believe that it's possible to track scum using only voting records. But that game had something we do not, the ability to watch wagons build, fall apart, and eventually result in a lynch. Could we overcome such a disadvantage with a minimalist approach? Perhaps. However, the last 48 hours of Day 1 was not the time to weigh this strategy's merits.

On a similar note, does anyone else find a curious disparity between these two quotes?

Darox wrote:
Let's talk about not having a RVS by virtue of it being 'night'.

Darox wrote:
Everyone who is talking is harming the town.

While I admit the first quote does not necessarily state an opinion on whether or not Darox believes we should have a RVS, it is worded in such a way to imply that he feels we could skip it.

Maybe I'm the only one, but when I see that someone wants to skip the RVS phase, I think it's because they want to get the game rolling and not waste time on fluff. And now a week later Darox says posting fluff is a pro-town strat. What? See what I mean about it looking like it's just an after-the-fact excuse?

Internet Stranger's Post 145 reads like a Wiki page of ScumTells. We got blanket rejections, fearmongering, chainsaw defenses of the lurkers, ad hominems, and appeals to emotion. Where do I start? Nowhere, excpet to say that a vote on him is starting to look like something great.

"Zomg Pads, what about ThirdKoopa"

ThirdKoopa doesn't need my vote. ThirdKoopa needs to be replaced. And this day needs to end.

Pads · Post Post #198 (isolation #7) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:03 pm

I think it means that someone who has proven good at finding scum in past games is often expected to find scum in the current game, and if they don't it must be because they're scum. It's a logical fallacy, obviously, but I took your use of it to mean that the burden of proficiency would be on yourself (and no one else, because we're all bad) and your lack of scum hunting and finding at the time was certain or likely to cause the town to be suspect of you.

Pads · Post Post #199 (isolation #8) » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:04 pm

Also, "Everyone who is talking is harming the town" is arguably different than "Let's not throw around votes like pillocks."

Pads · Post Post #226 (isolation #9) » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:33 pm

Page 6 is so good.

Ace wrote:
Vote: InternetStranger

That's the most important thing on the page. Let's see what happens afterwards.

Darox wrote:
Lol Burden of Proficiency.

I honestly never figured out on Day 1 out what caused him to say this (it just seemed kinda random), but it was in response to Otolia's suspicion of InternetStranger.

Otolia wrote:
Internet Stranger has mentionned mozamis twice for 'trying too hard' which is far-fetched. He is supposed to know better.

Darox is mocking Otolia's reasoning. Without saying InternetStranger's name, he's defending him by attacking his attacker. Textbook chainsawing.

Speaking of attacking the attacker...

Hiplop wrote:
ACE is scum, btw

Hiplop wrote:
ACE is scum, and its pretty obvious too. His posts are actually complete fluff and/or repeated knowledge.

While Ace's case at the time of his vote was perhaps not the most thorough in the history of mafia, it's no worse than anything Hiplop himself has generated. Let's also not forget that Hiplop followed suit in suspecting mozamis after InternetStranger, who himself was following Ace's early suspicions.

"Zomg Pads, but you voted for Mozamis"

Indeed, I did. What can I say? The behavioral analysis on InternetStranger showed scum, the content analysis on InternetStranger showed scum. But, I just didn't like the wagon. Entirely too many people were ready to lynch him too easily. Looked like scum piling on a mislynch.

Mozamis' iso was awful and I don't regret my choice at the time. That said, at this point, regardless of past content, he's almost certainly town, and Ace gets plenty of town points as well. TehBrawlGuy less so, as he came in at about the right time for a bussing scumbuddy.

Am I going to take heat today for my choice? Don't I know it. However, I have hope that cooler minds prevail. If you really think InternetStranger used his last four or five posts to loudly discredit his scumbuddy (seriously read Post 210 and tell me you think he's talking to his scum buddy) and if you think I would allow myself to be seen holding hands with my scumbuddy who stood a very high chance of being lynched, then, yeah, vote me up.

Either way, I hope we all take away from this that definitively announcing your intentions and following through with them is the right way for the town to play.

Speaking of not being seen holding hands with their scumbuddy, Darox sure made an effort to not contribute towards a lynch. Couldn't vote Ace, or look bad when his scumbuddy got lynched. Couldn't vote Mozamis, or look bad hand holding. Didn't want to help his scumbuddy get lynched, so he voted for... basically no one.

Ace wrote:I'd like you (Darox) to post a comprehensive VCA right now please, and also before anyone else posts one. If everyone else could refrain from doing this before Darox posts again it would be much appreciated.

I'd like to hear his VCA, too, but we both know it's not happening. With one scum down, we have a little breathing room, and can spend some time on a policy lynch, especially one that has a healthy chance of finding scum. Darox and Hiplop both fit this bill.

pvote: Darox.

Pads · Post Post #229 (isolation #10) » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:19 pm

Also, not going to spend a lot of time making a case on what is almost certainly a townie.

Pads · Post Post #248 (isolation #11) » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:02 pm

For the record, I believe this to be a waste of the town's time and a distraction from what we need to be concentrating on today. But since two people asked, here it is.

Spoiler: Mozamis Case

Ace wrote:
Only posts on mozamis were saying "not sure one way or another" followed by "I'm giving mozamis a pass today for posting content". His suspects were ThirdKoopa and Darox. Huh?

I'll concede the mistake from a strategy standpoint. I started this game championing keeping our thought processes open, and I should have stayed with it. I knew, by the time of Post 196 that I was almost certainly going to stay away from IS' wagon.

"But, Pads, in that post you said:"

Pads wrote:
Internet Stranger's Post 145 reads like a Wiki page of ScumTells. We got blanket rejections, fearmongering, chainsaw defenses of the lurkers, ad hominems, and appeals to emotion. Where do I start? Nowhere, excpet to say that a vote on him is starting to look like something great.

Though, I never actually call him scum, nor do I express an interest in voting him.

"WTF Pads, yes you do."

No, I don't. However, I am misleading about it. But that's the point, I'm trying to mislead. I think that scum are ramping up on a mislynch at this point. I know I'm a townie, and I know my appearance of support will encourage them to jump on and we can pick 'em apart the next day.

"Pads, you're making this all up after the fact."

That's what you have to decide. But, there's one last thing to tell you. Certainly we can agree that the last sentence is a little awkwardly phrased. "A vote on him is starting to look like something great?" Who the hell talks like that? It's because the unwritten end of that sentence, which I intended to finish first thing Day 2 after townInternetStranger's mislynch, was "...a great place to find scum!" Ah, it's funny how things tend to turn out.

"Pads, I don't believe you."

Imagine my shock. But, I think the town is reasonable in wanting to know my thought process, so there it is. Again, I concede the mistake of trying to be tricksy, and I don't dare to dream that I'm going to make it to Night 3. However, for as long as I'm here, the town will know my thoughts and intetions going forward.

Oh, and as far as the 'giving Mozamis a pass today' thing: upon seeing new information, I changed my mind. If you want to try to sell that as a scum tell, good luck.

Junpei wrote:
I really find his mozami vote out of place,

Perfectly reasonable.

Junpei wrote:
and the fact that it is with Internet Stranger, a confirmed mafia

Less reasonable. InternetStranger expressed several targets he 'found scummy' and a townie would have no idea which one he would vote for.

A scum buddy, on the other hand, would know exactly how he was voting.

A townie could have been reasonably swayed by InternetStranger's case against Mozamis.

A scum buddy would have seen that InternetStranger's lynch and subesequent scumflip was highly likely and would have certainly been feeling like he (Internet Stranger) was toxic. Imagine the moderately plausible scenario in which Ace, Junpei, TehBrawlGuy, Mozamis, and myself are all town (or the other four of them, if you think I'm scum), and you, the reader, (or me) are InternetStranger's scumbuddy. It must have felt like the world was coming down on him. Wouldn't you have stayed the hell away from him?

"But, Pads, knowing all of that his scum buddies could still vote with their buddy InternetStranger and just say 'InternetStranger's scumbuddy would never vote with him' the next day, thus hiding in the WIFOM!"

Except that given the option of hiding in the WIFOM, who would choose being seen hand holding over the strictly superior bussing of a doomed buddy?

*crickets*

There is no way a scumbuddy voted with InternetStranger. Not for a mislynch, and not even for WIFOM.

Similarly, InternetStranger is clearly not talking to or about his scumbuddy in his last post, unless you've put your WIFOM glasses on.

VisceraEyes wrote:
Pads should probably take a break from fake-scumhunting to defend himself.

Take out the word 'fake' from this sentence, and, at this point, this is the polar opposite of what I should do. The town has a legitimate suspicion of me for my late day choice and they're right to add pressure. But, I've already explained my thought process at the time. I didn't like the speed of the wagon and I stayed away. If that's not good enough for folks, there's not much I can do about it, because that's all there is.

On the other hand, what I

can

do is continue to play to my win condition, which involves finding scum. My words, at least to a point, were valid yesterday. Today, they are not, which I understand. The moment I die, they become valid again, so you can bet the bank I'm going to keep putting out my opinions and observations. To butcher a phrase, 'I got 99 problems, but a lynch ain't one.'

That said, I think I've wall-o-text'ed enough for the moment (and even if I haven't, three and a half hours of typing is quite enough, thank you). I'll finish up the other half of this post tomorrow night, which of course will be said scumhunting. Including a few more responses and my thoughts on each of the people piling on my wagon.

Also, a brief thought: I haven't looked too deeply in Otolia's death, but I think it makes Darox look better, actually. Should my wagon fall through, Darox is quite likely the next on the chopping block. Killing one of townDarox's attackers is a great way to frame him and set up such a mislynch. ScumDarox, on the other hand, would more likely kill one of my attackers to make me look worse.

Pads · Post Post #251 (isolation #12) » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:57 am

A topic I was planning on explorer further with my post later tonight.

Ace's attacks on me are reasonable.
I find TehBrawlGuy's suspicion of me to have just the right tone of rational caution for a townie.
Viscera Eyes' attack is fairly lazy, but I don't find it scummy.

Junpei's attacks looked less reasonable on the first read through, one of which I've already elaborated on.

Oh, and while I'm here, Hiplop, concerning your last post, I can actually sympathize with that, as I used to do that all the time (not really stopping and reading the last half page or so of posts).

I'll be back tonight.

Pads · Post Post #252 (isolation #13) » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:57 am

Exploring*

Pads · Post Post #258 (isolation #14) » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:28 am

Ace5993 wrote:

Junpei wrote:and the fact that [Pad's vote] is with Internet Stranger, a confirmed mafia

This is the "less reasonable" quote from Junpei

Ace5993 wrote:
Rather he votes with IS-scum (as a possible IS counterwagon attempt?).

While this is part of my reasonable attack.

I know there has to be that one guy on your wagon who's case isn't as solid, but I'm surprised you picked Junpei. I probably would have gone for TehBrawlGuy myself.

Ya got me. The flow of logic that says that because I voted with InternetStranger I must be his buddy is nonsense regardless of from whom it stems, be it said earnestly from you, parroted mechanically by Junpei, or regurgitated thoughtlessly by VisceraEyes.

What I was more consciously referring to, however, was the issue of my vote on Mozamis, which both of you stated. Both of you attacked me for it. One of those attacks I found reasonable, the other not. The difference? The speaker.

As I said, I'm willing to accept different ways of playing mafia, and differing opinions about techniques, what is scummy and what is not, etc... So when I see an attack like this:

Ace5993 wrote:Pads - INCONSISTENCY. Only posts on mozamis were saying "not sure one way or another" followed by "I'm giving mozamis a pass today for posting content". His suspects were ThirdKoopa and Darox. Huh? Rather he votes with IS-scum (as a possible IS counterwagon attempt?). Heavily leaning scum.

... I say to myself, 'Hey, there's a guy who truly thinks that inconsistency is a sign of scumminess. I was surely inconsistent on Day 1, and this guy spent all day saying that we need to announce our intentions and follow through. I didn't do that, so he finds me scummy. I heartily disagree with the reasoning, but I can see someone believing this, and I find his suspicion genuinely in line with what he's preaching.'

Also, you ask for information, even if you announce that you don't feel it will likely change your mind. It shows that there's at least some part of you that's trying to figure things out.

So, I found this attack reasonable.

Then I see TehBrawlGuy come in and say....

TehBrawlGuy wrote:
@Pads: It's relevant. If you can show how he (Mozamis) was scummy before IS's flip, it gives a reason for you to have not been on IS wagon. My unwillingness to vote you is based on faith that you can do that. If you can't, I very well might vote you today.

... And I say to myself, 'Hey, here's a guy who, while against announcing vote intentions, spoke in support of vocalizing suspicions on Day 1. My vote was on a guy who I did not list susipicions on, so this guy is suspicious of my actions. Perfectly reasonable.

And again, seeking additional information to try to understand what he does not understand. All good signs in my book.

But then we come to Junpei.

Junpei wrote:
I really find his mozami vote out of place

Uh.. what? This is from the same guy who said...

Junpei wrote:
My plan:

Stop announcing votes, that's bad to do.

... and from the guy who was highly suspicious of InternetStranger AND from the guy who's last recorded intention to vote was for InternetStranger yet voted for Hiplop, completely avoiding any possible chance of participating in a lynch? Is he really attacking me for changing my mind?

More importantly,

I did the thing that he felt was a good idea and now he's attacking me for it

? Maybe he feels I'm lying about finding Mozamis scummy. Wait, no, he said....

Junpei wrote:
I admit, Mozami is quite scummy.

So, my Mozamis vote is reasonable because Mozami is quite scummy. So, what the hell is the problem? Could it be.... that the attacker isn't trying to figure anything out, that he's simply parroting the attacks without a real care or comprehension of what's going on? Tunneling so hard that he doesn't change his mind when one of his two attack points is shown to be not so bad after all? I find this to be an alarming distance from a townie mindset.

All that's left of his case then is my vote with InternetStranger. Player A is scum. Player A does a thing. Player B does the same thing, thus Player B is also scum. Does this even need refuting? Is this that 'solid' part of your case that you're implying exists Ace? Let's explore...

InternetStranger is scum. InternetStranger discouraged making voting intentions public. Junpei discouraged making voting intentions public. Junpei is also scum.

InternetStranger is scum. InternetStranger supported an early wagon on Mozamis. Ace supported an early wagon on Mozamis. Ace is also scum.

InternetStranger is scum. InternetStranger believes he was making valid, pro-town cases. Otolia believes InternetStranger was making valid, pro-town cases. Otolia is also scum.

Isn't this fun? I've already shown why strategically it makes no sense for a scumbuddy to vote with IS, even if he didn't end up lynched (or at least I think I have, since everyone has continued their attacks with "I don't believe you, Pads" rather than discussing the issues point for point.). And now I hope we all see the logic behind it is flawed, as is Junpei's suspicion of me.

On a side note, I also have yet to hear anyone say "Yes, Pads, I firmly believe InternetStranger was railing against his scumbuddy's scum hunting and insulting them for the last three pages of Day 1." I would have really liked to see that on record.

My wagon was constructive but it went on too long for bad reasons. I recommend contemplating another target.

I'll be back after some sleep.

Pads · Post Post #272 (isolation #15) » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:48 pm

That misrep by TehBrawlGuy is atrocious.

Ya know, I was going to type something a little more organized tonight, but I'm so very, very tired. So I'm just going to slap this together.

Junpei and TehBrawlGuy have raised my eyebrow here on good ol' Day 2. But here's the thing. TehBrawlGuy is right, we're up at the moment. And I can think we can and should put some pressure on the, shall we call them... minimalists? We can't afford to wait until lynch or lose to do so, and my friends of the town, I'm afraid that my error in judgement and the sloth of today have ensured that I'm not going to be there to help you do it.

The time for pressuring the inactive, thus, must be now. The white knights can fight amongst themselves Day 4+.

Wasabi's seemingly strained grasp of the game mechanics certainly leans him towards town, but his utter lack of anything about anything does not exactly label him as an asset. Anyone with a town PM looking forward to trying to convince Wasabi to help lynch their scum choice in Lynch or Lose?

Hiplop, VisceraEyes, and Mozamis have kept a pretty low profile today. Of the three, Hiplop is the only one not set to cruise control in Ace's wake, which is a point in his favor.

Darox has become a source of amusement for me, and he wouldn't be my first choice for a scum or policy lynch at this point. I might feel better about him if his game setup insights weren't more prolific than his scumfinding insights, and it's quite likely that my initial thoughts on the Otolia kill were a result of thinking too hard about it ("Otolia attacks Darox, Darox scumkills Otolia" is not an unreasonable line of thought).

Also of note, I'm the doc, and I've been trying to tell you guys that.

Pads wrote:
I don't dare to dream that I'm going to make it to Night 3

As opposed to Day 3. A little odd for someone who's supposed to die Night 2, no?

Pads wrote:
'I got 99 problems, but a lynch ain't one.'

Hrm, who in my position would possibly not be worried about being lynched. The only power role left, perchance?

Pads wrote:
I recommend contemplating another target.

...because you're going to need it sooner than you think.

Ah, well. I probably wouldn't have picked up on it, either.

So here we are, a little more than 24 hours out. We've got four days of "Yeah, what Ace said!" and "I don't believe you, Pads!" but somehow we need to piece together a pro-town lynch and maybe we'll get some scum while we're at it.

If I had to choose at this moment, I would choose ThirdKoopa. Honestly, that character slot needs to be modkilled,and I don't think replacement is acceptable anymore. Was not the tagline of this particular game something about good old fashioned scum hunting? No townie can be reasonably asked to read him. And if the mod doesn't want to get rid of him, we need to.

Pads · Post Post #282 (isolation #16) » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:35 pm

Town's To-Do List Tomorrow:

1. Take away Ace's license to lead the town.

2. Take a hard look at VisceraEyes

3. Re-examine Mozamis and InternetStranger's interactions

4. If Darox is lynched and

(a) ...flips town: Seriously, though, VisceraEyes.

(b) ...flips scum: Start purging the inactive, since, ya know, there's like five of them.

Pads · Post Post #284 (isolation #17) » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:47 pm

I never cease to be amused when people tell me I haven't posted enough content.

And I'm pretty sure I've already done #1.

Pads · Post Post #286 (isolation #18) » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:58 pm

Everyone needs to do their part in order for #1 to happen.

And, no, I haven't scratched the surface of #2 and #3, and I'll likely use some of my time on Day 3 to do that. Why not now? Because neither Mozamis or VisceraEyes are a potential lynch target for tonight, and that's the topic at hand.

Also, I've done my part today, perhaps to a fault, as there's been very little conversation other than my scumminess and now Darox's.

What about you? No interest in policy lynching the substance-less?

Pads · Post Post #289 (isolation #19) » Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:24 pm

Junpei wrote:
That's a ridiculous question Pads, my vote last night on hiplop should show clearly how I feel about policy lynching the useless early on.

No, it's not, and I find your implication that it is to be scummy.

You have not said a peep today about lynching hiplop.

You have not said a peep today about lynching inactives.

What does your Day 1 vote have to do with whether or not you are in favor of policy lynching inactives on Day 2? Townies change their mind, and it's not ridiculous for me to ask if you have changed yours, either due to different circumstances or some different strategy for Day 2. Townies reconsider, reanalyze, and rethink. Sticking to your beliefs is fine, but expecting me to forever staple a stated opinion to you is bizarre to say the least.

Junpei wrote:
You aren't out of the gallows, don't plan to be around day 3, do what you wish now.

Make sure you speak clearly into the mic when advocating the lynching of an uncounter-claimed doc. I want the whole town to hear it, so they can burn you at the stake the following day. That said, if the mafia don't snipe me tomorrow for WIFOM-lulz or whatever, then, yes, I should probably be the lynch Night 3.

Ace wrote:
Pads you are on the Darox wagon which I started.

Am I? I just said I don't consider him the best choice for finding a scum or policy lynching. Ah, I forgot I still had that pvote from earlier. A fair enough misunderstanding.

Ace wrote:
Your case stems directly from mine.

Does it now? I realize I'm one of the few people in the game not parroting you, so you might be confused, but I've come up with my own points against him, most recently the Otolia kill and the soft defense of InternetStranger on Day 1.

Ace wrote:
Are you going to continue being on the good wagon or switch your vote?

"...at which point me and posse will lynch you.", is that how that sentence ends? Sadly, I'm already a dead man walking so you don't have anything to threaten me with.

All that said, while I do think there are other lynches out there that would present us with a "win-win" scenario, Darox is not the worst lynch choice either. He's definitely got some scummy moments and his reaction to the late day surge is not the most townie-like I've ever seen. More attacking the attackers than trying to help the town out in what are probably his final moments. So, yeah, without a late surge of interest in a policy lynch (again, I suggest ThirdKoopa), I will be voting for Darox.

Pads · Post Post #301 (isolation #20) » Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:58 pm

A couple of initial thoughts.

ThirdKoopa is probably the conservative lynch choice today. I still hold by what I said on Day 1 about what little content he did put forth being scummy.

VisceraEyes is a less conservative choice, but still a fair chance of finding scum, especially considering he specifically mentioned a scum QT on Day 2. I realize that such things are common on this site, but I'm having a hard time seeing a townie commenting on it as though he definitely knew it existed.

Pads · Post Post #304 (isolation #21) » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:49 pm

Is there some set of circumstances that will result in you giving massive reads, Junpei?

And you can attempt to mock it all you want, VisceraEyes, but I'm having a hard time seeing a townie say:

VisceraEyes wrote:
Is anyone clear as to the QT mechanic?

I could see maybe a townie asking if the scum could still talk during the day, but to specifically mention a Quickthread as though it definitely existed so as to ask how it worked? Seems rather out of place to me.

Also, you've jumped on every wagon that's come through the station, scum and townie alike, and your vote last night was ridiculous.

Pads · Post Post #312 (isolation #22) » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:23 am

Ace

Tone: Town
Content: Town
Voting: InternetStranger and Darox. Lead the wagons on both.
Conclusion: With half the game not even playing, we get what we deserve if he's scum. He can have his licence.

Hiplop

Tone: Town
Content: Scummy
Voting Record: Ace and Pads. At least he had reasons stated in thread for both votes.
Conclusion: Lurky but probably town. One of scumJunpei's mislynch targets.

Junpei:

Tone: Town
Content: Scummy
Voting Record: Hiplop and Darox. Possible bus, but it's all speculation until the game ends. Nothing particularly suspicious.
Conclusion: Opinion of Hiplop as scum hasn't wavered in three days. Kinda odd for a townie. My second choice for scum, but after some thought, I would not approve of his lynch as of this moment. Let's purge some inactives first. And besides, once I'm gone, he'll have to find something to do other than tunnel me, which will help us regardless of his alignment.

Mozamis

Tone: Scummy
Content: Scummy
Voting Record: InternetStranger and Darox. If they were bussed by their 3rd, this is the busser.
Conclusion: Lurking and Sheeping, and he only stops lurking to come out and acknowledge how much he's sheeping. Content to ride his townie points from InternetStranger's vote, this is a fine policy lynch sitting here. There's better targets today, but I don't see the obvTown arguments.

TehBrawlGuy

Tone: Town
Content: Town
Voting Record: InternetStranger and Darox. Bus both your allies? Maybe from hide-in-the-shadow-of-uberTownAce Mozamis, but not really seeing it from TehBrawlGuy.
Conclusion: Pushing Darox before I claimed but wouldn't have been hard to see the writing on the wall. Still, likely Town.

ThirdKoopa

Tone: Scummy
Content: Scummy
Voting Record: None
Conclusion: Whatever. This slot, clearly not a part of this game, needs to be mod-killed.

VisceraEyes

Tone: Scummy
Content: Town Day 1, Scummy Day 2
Voting Record: Otolia and Ace. The first vote was reasonable, as it was explained in thread. The second vote was explained horrendously. OMGUS, really? What townie cares this little about their vote?
Conclusion: My choice for today's lynch if we're after scum. His activity has waned as the scum team got picked apart. Exactly what I expect from the lone remaining scum. His last four posts have been defending himself, with not a read to be seen for miles. His last post on Day 2 implied that he was switching his vote for content based reason and not my claim. Huh? Looks like scum over-explaining to me. Also, mentioned a scum QT. If townVisceraEyes thinks such a thing is not a big deal then, in all likelihood, so does scumVisceraEyes, and wouldn't have thought twice about doing it. Maybe nothing. Maybe a big scum slip.

Wasabi

Tone: Town
Content: Null
Voting Record: Unexplained. Pads and Junpei. Neither vote was accompanied by reasoning.
Conclusion: Not exactly being bowled over by his townieness but there's scummier targets out there.

Ta ta, and good luck town.

Pads · Post Post #473 (isolation #23) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:29 am

Ah, well done, Ace.

The setup proved interesting. As always, I'm completely worthless with a power role's ability. Whoever I protect one night, I should just auto-vote that person the next day. Maybe it's because I don't value power roles at all, and instead I rely on scumhunting, which is what attracted me to this game.

Not having a 'hammer' that was instant was a little odd, and I think it might skew very slightly in favor of scum (as in, the person gets off with being slightly less suspicious for hammering), especially since, technically, all the votes happen at the same time (at night).

Not needing a majority to get a lynch was certainly interesting, but I think this aspect would normally favor the town a little, since they can see if a certain group of people are always controlling the lynches. In our case, with 2 scum lynched in the first two days, that wasn't an issue.

And, of course, I was highly in favor of the modkill, for reasons I stated in thread and reasons Jedo just expounded upon.

What is there to say? Ace, you eliminated the pro-town players one by one, took your sheeps to LyLo for the win, and managed to look mostly town the entire time. I can't recall another mafia victory in which I could say that about any of the victors, so hat's off to you.

As for the town, we had our problems, but our biggest one, obviously, is letting one person dictate the lynch the entire game. There's no good reason to allow that to happen, especially once the doctor is dead and unable to proctect the person that 'found 2 scum', yet that person lives on. Burden of Proficiency, indeed.

Some of us, myself included, probably gave Ace too much credit for 'double bussing'. The writing was on the wall for Darox. I don't recall exactly how the IS lynch went down, but I seem to recall Ace's contribution looking pretty genuine at the time.

Also, the inactivity and lurking. I spent the majority of this game wondering why some of you even sign up to play Mafia. And even worse, the

tolerance

of inactivity and lurking. VisceraEyes voted Mozamis in lynch or lose, and I know I certainly would have voted for Mozamis in lynch or lose, and I'm betting more people would have, too. Which is why the town can't let lurking sheep get to lynch or lose.

Anyhoos, gg. Thanks for the modding, Jedo.