The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[VitaminR]

Faraday, if you can read me, GIVE ME EXTRA SPECIAL POWERS.

[VitaminR]

I agree with MoI on Feysal. He has only a limited incentive to work with us. Also, I was kinda right with my Kats read.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, I was kinda right with my Kats read.

This reminds me - to those who said "Kats replace-out is a town tell" - I have one thing to say

[Magister Ludi]

How does Plum use flavor on nightkills in general?

This is important.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is important.

Setting aside question about why you think it is important ... no way to know for certain what Plum is doing this game.

In the previous LOTR large theme she ran (with Andy) each character with a kill had their own unique kill flavor. Not sure what else she has done.

In the end it is Mod Meta you are relying on and not necessarily dependable.

[Andrius]

Ok .. that was probably a little too snarky. Let me elaborate.

Leashed Serial Killers are never a good idea. Why? They have no long term motivation to actually help Town. Their goal is to survive long enough to achieve their wincondition which does not mesh with Town. So unlike a Town vig they do not have pure motivations. The question becomes … how do you ‘leash’ them. Town’s only threat is basically the promise of a lynch if they do not shoot ‘approved targets’. Since the targets are public the Mafia have full disclosure and can choose to interfere or not (via roleblock / redirect / whatever they have at their disposal). Thus you are certain of having dead Townies when Town directs poorly but no guarantee of dead Mafia when they choose wisely. This situation doesn’t aid Town.

Look at Battle for Olympus as a perfect example. When Gemini was outed as a Serial Killer they promised to shoot as Town directed. What happened instead? We lynched her and halved the number of Non-Town kills. This extended the game allowing Town more time to sort through the jumble of poorly playing Townies (Chesskid / Nacho) and have time to lynch the Hated Townie pre-LYLO.

Without killing Gemini town probably didn’t have time to survive that many mislynches.

The only time you don’t lynch an outed Serial Killer is when you have a guaranteed scum lynch that same day or it is LYLO and lynching a Serial Killer gives scum the win (in which case Town is screwed anyway).

--

I hope Feysal is town
his claim was shitty, though

Ok, I know I am going to kick myself for asking but – WTF? You’ve already said that you KNEW he wasn’t a Town Vig. And then he directly claimed 3rd party. And you say this?

--

Ok … if there is any other information out there that would indicate a better target (aka Mafia) for lynch it needs to come out soon. Otherwise I really don’t see letting Feysal live with his claim as it is.

This man speaks the truth. Also why I pushed for killing nopoint and tans in BNM- cutting down on the nightkills against the town. :/
But yes if he's a SK then he needs to go because the OC of keeping him around is detrimental to the town especially with mafia potentially screwing with kills. :/

Also, I was kinda right with my Kats read.

This reminds me - to those who said "Kats replace-out is a town tell" - I have one thing to say

<3

How does Plum use flavor on nightkills in general?

This is important.

How do you mean? Read LOTR Mafia, the large. The last game she ran with killflavor. Each mafioso had their own killflavor but I don't see how it applies. :/

[gandalf5166]

That's my point. Feysal looks like he's cooperating with town. We direct him, if he doesn't cooperate then we lynch him. And had you left Gemini alive, she could have killed Nacho for you, lowering the number of days you needed to do the same thing. And yeah, they're likely to only end up killing town, but they're killing town that you were going to lynch anyways.

If we had left Gemini alive we probably would have lynched Town anyway so you were trading a SK life for a Town life. That accelerates the speed by which endgame would be reached. Granted there are MANY variables that make forecasting difficult.

I don't leave claimed Serial Killers alive unless you have a guarenteed scum lynch in their place. If you can provide me with one Gandalf I'm happy to listen. Otherwise we are probably done in this round and round.

BTW - Why did you only remember that little detail after both Seraphs said they didn't activate you?

I didn't forget about it, it just wasn't worth mentioning, and I hadn't considered that the two might be connected.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok so Amrun is posting all over the site like it is going out of style.

Meanwhile we get nothing from S&M.

S&M are also lurker scum. Adjust your lynch lists accordingly.

[Andrius]

Ok so Amrun is posting all over the site like it is going out of style.

Meanwhile we get nothing from S&M.

S&M are also lurker scum. Adjust your lynch lists accordingly.

*snickers* S&M, eh? Yeah they're lurker scum too.
But Feysal lynch first?
Do bastard games usually have an unusual number of 3rd parties?

[MagnaofIllusion]

But Feysal lynch first?

Once we see that there are no more "Hey, Player Y is scum" posts and Mina / Faraday check in with their thoughts (timing might be an issue .. remember they operate on a 36 flipped cycle) I think we can assemble the block and make Feysal all dead.

[Herodotus]

Just finished Day 1. I don't have much to say about the Pere wagon. There must have been some scum on it, but it already includes some of my top suspects. None of the vote posts stood out as especially scummy on my first read. I may go back and reexamine them later, but I'm more concerned with catching up first.

Dekes and Wraith look like townies based on their posting prior to the Pere wagon.

Magna could have easily withheld that information. Instead he chose to post very helpful information that could lead to an explanation on your role (and by proxy, Gandalf's role) and give town a large amount of information. That is why we are confident in Magna town.

I think Seraph1 would have worked against him or reported the incident to the next neighborized player if he had withheld it.
Magna acting as messenger is null. It's a pro-town action, but if he didn't do it, he would have been discovered, so he'd do it as town or anti-town. (I do think he's telling the truth about the neighborhood.)

But what I'm absolutely sure about is that there's scum in the skating by-pool (Pere, SaM, Wraith, WoW...is Chrono V/LA of any sorts? Because that ISO is just disgusting).

Assuming this is a complete lurker list, I now think Sun and Moon is likely scum.

Furcolow and MoS are probably not buddies in light of furcolow post 639. Scum probably wouldn't say "[buddy] complimented me"

it's not what you know, it's what you can convince everyone else
MoI has just confirmed there are probably roles like that unless he made up the seraph's contacting him

Did you mean roles like the ones gandalf and andrius claimed?
MoI, did you confirm that? I missed it.

Willowisp's quote in post 778 is notable for cutting out a significant line. But I think he was mostly just answering Dekes's question, so it's probably not scum-motivated misquoting.

[Andrius]

But Feysal lynch first?

Once we see that there are no more "Hey, Player Y is scum" posts and Mina / Faraday check in with their thoughts (timing might be an issue .. remember they operate on a 36 flipped cycle) I think we can assemble the block and make Feysal all dead.

I'll be here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Dekes and Wraith look like townies based on their posting prior to the Pere wagon.

Please elaborate ... especially in regards to Dekes.

[SpyreX]

Well I just got out of a warm bath and there was this scroll sitting here from my chamberlain. Instead of trying to read all the hard words I figured I'd just go ahead and show it to you all:

Dear Townsfolk,

What in the hell are you guys on?

Lynching Feysal under the guise of "SK's can't be leashed" actually hurt me so bad the doctors had to come and administer the leeches. While a true statement on paper,

look at this gamestate

. His only method of actually having any chance at winning is not going off the rails and, call this a hunch, him telling the truth means it isn't actually a real SK.

Further, when you've got "players" like Sun & Moon that need to be evaporated and no one ELSE is stepping up to the plate why not use the rabid dog UNTIL it has to be put down - before a massclaim occurs which would be far, far too much to handle.

Do I need more evidence? MoI, look who toed the line super quick: VitaminR, aka I'm just useless enough that I'm not going to be lynched even though I really need to be dead, and Andrius, aka I dont even have a role guyz and that whole business about flavor and gandalf has been put into the rubbish bin and I didn't even pretend to blink an eye at it.

This doesn't even INCLUDE business that will have to happen like Dekes, Chronos, Elli, or Will of the Wisp or even KKB (who is still a bad idea but I digress).

See that list of people I want dead? 7. You're lookin at the difference between Day 9 and Day 5.

Put together a list of like 4-5 names, let him go to town on making them no longer be here.

And lynch Dekes in the meantime.

Look, now I need the leeches again,

Sir Reginald Wirebottom, Esq.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Spyrex

- Your Quillsman is going to have to work harder to convince me to not lynch Feysal who has claimed a kill-list of likely Town on the off chance he isn't a Full Fledged Serial Killer who tried to grab "Town Vig" cred killing Furc and had it backfire when Furc outed he wasn't Town.

Game-state or no game-state. Sorry ... I'm hardwired to lynch claimed SK roles on site. 4+ years of Mafia gameplay has taught me this.

[gandalf5166]

WHAT SPY SAID

[MagnaofIllusion]

I need to dig up the "Slap a Lannister" jpg from Battle of Olympus and put it to work on Gandalf.

[Gut]

Agree with Spy. I see no reason to say no to an extra de facto town controlled kill. Added pluses here are that 1) Feysal's one of those players to whom helping the town comes naturally and 2) I see no reason why his win condition need be mutually exclusive with ours - odds are he'll win simply by surviving long enough.

As for scum messing with his kill, we'll cross that bridge when it comes to it. It's not like we won't know it when it happens.

Now can we lynch VitRscum?

P.S. you're right, Faraday, won't happen again.

[gandalf5166]

I do suggest that we direct Feysal's kills. We don't want to get specific, but giving him a pool of three to choose from every night would be a good idea.

[Herodotus]

I'll try to get a couple of posts in until then, but no promises.

But this Pere wagon makes me feel good inside. Need to take a look at the voters, but for now I'll join anyway.

Unvote; Vote: PeregrineV

Ok Dekes is scum? Why you ask? Because HE WAS ALREADY VOTING PERE WHEN HE POSTED THIS.

Hard to believe he suddenly was convinced Pere was scum by the Feysal case when he supposedly already had a scum read on Pere and was voting him.

Scumtastic.

I disagree. It looks like he just forgot where his vote was, which isn't scummy.

Minor FoS: Spyrex for agreeing. Furcolow and Magna don't get FoS's, but they burned some credibility.

Also, Feysal, I can't believe you targetted me
talk about wraithfulness
you're not a town vig either

D1: "Could a vig please try to kill me?"
D2: "Fey targeted me. OMG WHYYYY?!?!?!?"

[SpyreX]

Luckily my chamberlain is prescient and left this under my bed.

Dear Townspeople,

Here is what I propose.

1.) Make a list of approximately 5 names of people that need to die (this shouldn't be hard)
2.) Feysal then kills people from that list.
3.) NO ONE, under punishment of death, targets any of the aformentioned names with anything. You track someone to someone on the dead list? Dead. You get made neighbors with someone? Dead. Dead. Dead.

Then, we let natural selection do the rest.

A full fledged SK that bides for vig-cred and has it backfire N1 is both on drugs and fine to have around. Seriously, if we mow down a few scum then its something we can look at more but if it was possible to work WITH a modified lyncher (because thats closer to what this is) I'll do it every time and high-five right to a bloody, bloody win.

At the minimum I say revisit this when a few of the biggest malcontents are dead. Maybe the Seraphs will have some light to shed on this.

I am officially on the record saying this is a bad, bad lynch today.

Back to the leeches,

Sir Reginald Wirebottom, Esq.

(P.S. I liked Herod a lot but this preview post made me throw up a little bit. Thats like 2 more hours at the leeches and I am not amused)

[VitaminR]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3481500]Do I need more evidence? MoI, look who toed the line super quick: VitaminR, aka I'm just useless enough that I'm not going to be lynched even though I really need to be dead, and Andrius, aka I dont even have a role guyz and that whole business about flavor and gandalf has been put into the rubbish bin and I didn't even pretend to blink an eye at it.[/quote]
Screw you, chamberlain.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I disagree. It looks like he just forgot where his vote was, which isn't scummy.

Minor FoS: Spyrex for agreeing. Furcolow and Magna don't get FoS's, but they burned some credibility.

Well I think this may fall in the 'Reasonable men may disagree' category altough I have my doubts about you.

Why would you say I 'burned some crediblity'? You just recently epicly fence-sat on me saying, in effect, "MoI is scum right? Or maybe not. Can't tell". How would I have any significant credibility in your eyes if you had suspicions I was scum.

Does Not Compute.

[VitaminR]

Agree with Spy. I see no reason to say no to an extra de facto town controlled kill. Added pluses here are that 1) Feysal's one of those players to whom helping the town comes naturally and 2) I see no reason why his win condition need be mutually exclusive with ours - odds are he'll win simply by surviving long enough.

I guess he's not as bad as an actual SK but we need to really dictate his kill every night (and this makes his kill much more vulnerable to outside messing with). If we give him a list, he'll just kill those that are also on his list and we have no idea of whether his list is town- or scum-sided or balanced. PLUS, he's claimed non-town-aligned and could EASILY be lying about important details of his claim, e.g. whether he needs to survive, what kind of killing/recruiting abilities he has, etc.

[Andrius]

I need to dig up the "Slap a Lannister" jpg from Battle of Olympus and put it to work on Gandalf.