MrTrow wrote:Someone is assuming RB-will fail: why, do you know we don`t have one?
Yes, obviously Trow's intent is to point out that he thinks DeltaWave has scumslipped. What I'm saying is that he may also have scumslipped in the process. Read the first part. "Someone is assuming RB will fail". This implies that he knows there IS one. A townie would have said 'Someone is assuming we don't have a roleblocker", not "someone is assuming the roleblocker will miss". The latter suggests the existence of a roleblocker, and when he said it yesterday, it could also have been a roleblocker-slip, which is sort of what thunder is saying- but now we know he isn't, so it's suspicious.
It's like this.
@Amrun: you're worrying me D: I need to really ISO you
It's not, though. First of all, I didn't mean it the way you think I did, but I can see you not believing that. The other thing is, though, Trow isn't 100% getting lynched today. So even if we were both scum, that statement would not be a slip, even the way you interpreted it, which is wrong. So again, I'm not sure what the problem is.
saulres wrote:Oh boy. Everyone I try to ISO, to figure out what's going on, they just keep coming back to talking about glowball. I'm not seeing how this is helping town at all. I'm thinking of voting to lynch her because getting rid of her might help us focus tomorrow and I'm going to guess the scum, if she's not among them, want to keep her around for exactly that reason. And if she is scum we get rid of one of them, so lynching her seems like a win-win.
But okay, I'll play along and act like she's town and ask her something I don't think anyone's asked before, and see if she answers:
glowball wrote:these reactions have helped me scumhunt immensely
I'm glad to hear that! So far, you have Maruchan and me as scum from well before the reactions were made, and you didn't change your opinion at all after all the reactions, so you still must be convinced. Therefore, if the reactions
did
help you as much as you claim, you must know who the third scum is! Please let us know in case we lynch you today and lose access to that valuable information. Thanks.
Yeah, I've got a third read, but it's not as strong as you or Maruchan and I am still unsure if you two are scumz together one flip will make all things clear. I mean the reactions have helped me scum hunt, I never said the reactions told me EXACTLY who the scum are. When I know, which I suspect by tomorrow if we lynch correctly, I will let you know unless we lynch you which as I said before is still just as suitable as Maruchan.
Okay, up until this point, I had a townread on glowball.
This post is really scummy.
There is ZERO TOWN MOTIVATION to deny giving the third scum read.
I disagree with glowball's reasoning for not giving townreads, but not giving SCUMREADS is an entirely different matter.
Saulres makes an excellent point: if this argument over you has helped your reads along, HOW and WHERE?
This is absolutely starting to sound like scum not wanting to take hard stances on anything before a round of flips so as not to incriminate themselves. (In xReckonerx NY135, MrZepher-scum used this strategy.)
glowball begging to be lynched is also reminding me of her play as hydra chkballin (scum) in Wraith's Planet of Hats large normal.
I have played with glowball as town, and she can be just as belligerent and stubborn as town. That is NOT a scumtell for her. However, even through that, I have been able to see glimmers of pro-town intent. I see none here.
VOTE: glowball
lane is still scum, fyi.
I read this and I'm like oh my godddd amrun is scum
zero town motivation =/= 100% scum motivation
in fact it doesn't imply scum motivation at all
and denying reads is always always always going to come from town, not scum
Well I mean it makes his lynch seem pretty likely. But unless he had literally already been lynched, nothing is ever certain. It's a moot point as far as I'm concerned because I know what I meant, and I can see there's no point trying to convince you I didn't have inside knowledge, even though there is just as good an interpretation of my sentence that wouldn't have led to this conversation.
Wow, your reads suck. I don't know how you can criticize the glowball lynch, she was absurdly scummy. And denying the read could have been scum motivated if, say, she had given up on not being lynched (which she obviously had) and didn't want to give out any info.
In post 1128, Cephrir wrote:And denying the read could have been scum motivated if, say, she had given up on not being lynched (which she obviously had) and didn't want to give out any info.
Why would scum even mention the existence of the third read, then?
Maybe they were planning on revealing it later to distance, but changed their mind? Maybe so people would ask exactly that question? Anyway, it sounds like you're arguing that glowball appeared to be a rational player. She obviously wasn't.
More importantly, and less based on stupid hypothetical situations that are probably my fault they came up, what Amrun said.
First off, I'd like to say Drunk posting is drunk. Sorry about this. I was bonding with my work peeps.
Second, I'd like to say, Quilford, your argument against Cephrir is similar to Lane's argument about Supreme Overlord (your slot). It wasn't confirmed either way, until Mothrax was dead first (and then we realized that Supreme and Mothrax weren't partnerS).
Thirdly, I shouldn't even be making this post, but I really like this game, and I want to win it. So I have to post so the Mafia doesn't win. Anyway, I think Trow is still our lynch today. Just because of the probabilities. And because his slot was so "not in the game" that it would make the perfect "scum murderer". Yeah.
Hoppster, there's something I disagree with in your statements, probably you saying I'm bringing things too far. I don't really rmemeber. Oh dear. I should stop. I'll get back to it tomorrow. I'm sure I have a rebuttal. You seem to be defending Mr. Trow pretty hard right now. That's all I have to say, I guess.
Oh, one more thing, I don't think Cephrir should take all the blame for voting. I DID say that I would be okay with it. And, actually, there's a point to be made here. I think Hoppster's reaction to it was fairly townish, but there's also reactions to be mined, like, who reacts in what way, and are they telling Cephrir to remove his vote just for townie points? Or for real, in order to keep discussion onwards?
I don't know. And I'm going to stop writing now, because I might be trailing on uselessness. Anyway, more from me tomorrow I think.
Nice to see a flurry of activity, though. Quilford, keep that going.
Oh yeah, the question I meant to ask with the previous points--Why is Cephrir higher on your scummyness list than Trow, if the points of his scuminess rely on Trow being lynched and turning up scum? Aren't YOU kind of assuming that Trow is scum right now?
I think that's a good point, though, about Cephrir and Trow relationship. I need to think more about bussing, and who could be doing it.
Oh God. I'm so sorry about that last post. You can disregard most of it. Well, actually, not really, just the rambly, wordy parts.
tl;dr (I'll break it down into better wording)
I still agree with my second point--we're condemning Cephrir for stuff to do with Trow's flip when we haven't seen Trow's flip (although he's so likely to be scum). But right now, at this current moment in time, it is circumstantial.
However, the fact that Hoppster's defending Mr. Trow like it's his job, and Cephrir could be bussing Mr.Trow like it's his job, I think we'll have at least some good reads tomorrow--providing we make it.
Re-reading, I don't like Cephrir's wording on his vote post. I don't mind that he voted--I don't think that there's a problem with the voting, but the wording could seem off.
HOWEVER, there's such a thing as reaction fishing--which I was trying to go for way back when I said everyone give me your reads on Mr. Trow (then I was going to vote for him and see who reacted in a negative light)--this is a technique I picked up in my first game here from Chkflip. I should have listened to him, because he found one of our scums, but, alas, newness prevailed.
Anyway, my point is, I think Hoppster throwing his suspicions on Cephrir right after him voting for a person that most are considering pretty scummy, might be telling, and he could be trying to get the heat off of his Mr. Trow scumbuddy. I don't know. I can't analyze it. The only thing I can take out of it, is that if Mr. Trow is scum, either Hoppster or Cephrir must be scum, but I don't think both--and then I'm still sticking with my tragedy scum.
Basically, what I'm saying, is I find Amrun incredibly town and will probably be listening to her as well as Quilford (gotta start whiddling the suspects down somewhere).
Quilford, why do you have Tragedy on almost the TOP of your town list? I don't understand that.
Oh, shit, I just looked above and saw that I wrote that last night. Ah.. well, I'll leave it in this one, since this is my sober catch-up post.
Finally, I really don't see an other option for the lynch today other than Mr. Trow, since everybody seems to be bringing forth evidence that has to do with his scumflip. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but a whole bunch of the arguments over the last page or two have gone with the assumption that Trow is scum.
Sorry, in response to Hoppster's big post on the last page, I would respond, but I agree with Cephrir's responses. Quilford wasn't even on the radar--that's why I figured he was town. If someone like Tragedy had popped up and said "hey guys, I'm totally the roleblocker" it would be more suspicious. But there was no chance of a Quilford lynch, not today anyway, so it doesn't make any sense for Quilford to be Mafia, in this scenario.
Trow, did you answer why you were using the language you used in 1051 (Cephrir's quoted it for me). Why did you keep going on about "how do you know I'm not the roleblocker--give me information prior to 1027" Was it just because you thought I should have given time for a counter claim? (Which I did, by the way, but that shouldn't stop me from giving out other reads, which would change if new information came up, but, yup, nothing did) Did you not believe Quilford's claim? Then why shouldn't I believe it? I feel your posts were still trying to discredit any case being re-brought up against you.
Fack, nobody's ever posting when I'm posting. I'm getting tired of it. But that's why I'm always posting in a row.
All I really wanted to say is let's keep this game moving. We have three scum to lynch, and I don't feel like waiting the obligatory 72 hours every time, plus a week for us to hash out the same stuff over again.
Basically, I'm agreeing with Amrun's 1124.
Tragedy, what are your thoughts about what's happening. I hate that I turn the limelight on Tragedy, then she stops posting and Trow starts. And now the limelight is on Trow, and Tragedy has stopped posting. I'm sensing a pattern here.
Heheehahah. Thunder, why you so confident on Amrun town?
Would you like to point out EVERYTHING about her, through an ISO? I see no doubt of Amrun-town right there.
I still have to keep complaining every game now; Lame role is fucking lame.
But yeah, I have to somewhat possibly agree with Trow-scum a bit, but not more than Amrun-scum- He's posting more lazily and different from the last time I've played with him.
I blame you for this.
For I have been awaiting for another heart pounding segment of
Dokidoki Precure!
[10/15/2013 - 00:13] -
Tragedy
~
I wish for Kami-nii-sama to have better naming skills.
We show it 'cos we know it and we know it always
It's better to the letter now everyday
We can shake it in the springtime, shake it in the snow
It's ti-ti-ti-ti-time to go-go
You can call it what you wanna, we call it freestyle
It's uh-uh-uh-all over the dial
There's nothing to do so we'll go right now
It's not about the knowledge, it's getting the know-how
Ok done rereading.
Keeping my suspicion (and hypothetical vote) on Cephrir
Hoppster pretty clear town
Thunder quite likely scum (+ can be linked to cephrir)
Tragedy / Amrun not clear yet (haven`t read their links, mainly have minor things on both)
uhm lets see what someone you do listen to has to say about this
In post 1083, thunderwielder wrote:Post 867 MR TROW: This is the first time he deviates from Maruchan. ISO #21. Just thought I'd note it.
Who did you replace again?
Need me to restate the maru-cases?
While i`m at it should i add the detail(yes i do consider this a relatively minor thing) saul`s amrun/maru/glowball- prediction could only be completely shattered by a glow-town-slip and maru hammered glowball
In post 1003, MrTrow wrote:Someone is assuming RB-will fail: why, do you know we don`t have one?
Please read the entire line and tell me, where is the slip?
Still no one has found an actual answer to this yet.
In case i need to rephrase to avoid bogus 'yes i did'-responses:
What in that question (DO NOT DISREGARD THE QUESTION) indicates i my slot to have picked-the-poison?
Can ANYONE give a good reason why delta`s flip is in any way relevant to the question above?
Or to be 'more hands on':
In post 1115, Cephrir wrote:"Someone is assuming RB will fail". This implies that he knows there IS one.
This is absolute BS, there is no way i can imply that i know that
Yes, he freaking was, from day 1, and that never changed.
The only thing i could find was that you and him(them) were likeminded therefore of prob-same allignment.
Although by itsself just fine, it is no reason to call
In post 263, Maruchan wrote:-sigh- Wait to blacklist him until post-game please? People play to win, and sometimes that means attacking the integrity of other players.
Here maru jumps in and calls 'discrediting other players' a possible (and acceptable) reason for his posts.
I cannot read this any other way than 'he`s not a bad guy, he`s just being good-scum'
- thunder knew i was not the roleblocker in #1027 (where he acknoledges the possibility of a counterclaim), while i hadn`t posted yet since the claim (had no chance to counterclaim yet)
- i am to be considered to have scumslipped by pointing to what i considered to be a possible slip, which other townies (right?) have also considered a possible slip just because it turned out to be wrong.
1) I knew that there was no reason for a scum to claim roleblocker, certainly not off the top. Unless they were to No Kill and then pre-emptively claim roleblocker in order to force a quick lynch before the real roleblocker could state the case--but that's the only situation where it seems like it could be beneficial. (Really, what's the scenario here? Does a Quilford scum really need to make a false claim, only to draw a counter claim from the real roleblocker and out himself? I don't think so.)
IE, yes, me calling for someone to counter claim was me hoping that there was a scum out there silly enough to do so, so we could catch one easily.
2) I am only now considering the comment as a slip, since the other slip turned out to be wrong and
Ok look above to see why this is bogus (obviously last 3 explanations didn`t work), also the below is in no way relevant to this point.
more importantly
there's a 50% chance that you are scum (just based upon night actions alone), so I'm following up every lead I can and trying to see if there's scum motivation. I am not completely disregarding the fact that we were wrong about the other slip, but looking in to see if there's any value to the other side of the story. The defensiveness that is starting to present itself is making me think that there is value to the other side of the story.
Self-preservation in lylo is a scumtell?
If i had to vote now: probably cephrir but wouldn`t be surprised if post reread it would be thunder (most of my notes on him were written when i had him as town)
Oh my goodness, I don't know how much more OMGUS I can handle.
I've now started attacking you and trying to trap you, and now I'm magically on your suspicions list. For what reasons, pray? Hopefully for reasons other than I am your largest attacker right now... yeah, I can't see any other reasons either.
And what do we have here?
Ow yeah:
- a player with (quite) some town-cred build up
- building a case mainly based on a point which he must know to be completely bogus
- in lylo
Yes, you betting your build-up towncred to get you past that last mislynch using a case you can`t possibly believe yourself was indeed sufficient ground to deem you likely-scum.
Also what trap were you talking about?
me calling for someone to counter claim was me hoping that there was a scum out there silly enough to do so, so we could catch one easily.
