Prozacs Basic Theme 3 - GAME OVER

[Porochaz]

Day 5 Votecount 2

Katsuki - 1 - Bunnylover
TheJackalope - 2 - Nocmen, StrangerCoug
dramonic - 2 - TheJackalope, Banshee
mykonian - 1 - chkflip
Mastermind of Sin - 1 - mykonian

Not Voting - 3 - dram, katsuki, MoS

Deadline is in 15 days.

chkflp has been prodded.

[mykonian]

I'm going to float a theory, and those with more experience with Fate can tell me how likely they think it is.

We know now that Fate was a governor. That means he did not have to claim mason buddies with Mykonian in order to save Myko's life. He could have simply overruled the lynch if he felt it was a bad lynch, which in fact he did for Bunnylover. He had two options (three, if you count ignoring the lynch and just letting it happen). In one case, he chose claiming mason buddies; in the other, he chose governor.

Well, obviously he couldn't claim mason buddies with Bunnylover, so that's one explanation of sorts. But I'm wondering if Fate had another plan in mind.

If Fate thought Mykonian was scum, then he might have claimed mason with Mykonian knowing that Mykonian knew his meta and, even as town, would not reject this claim. It would be a safe move for Fate and might keep him alive longer, since scum would be reluctant to kill him and thus open up Mykonian to question about the mason claim.

SO, if Fate tried to claim mason with Myko because he thought Myko was scum in lieu of using the governor pardon on him, then I don't think Myko would have allowed him to be killed and to confirm that. Fate had shown no signs of backing down from his mason claim or of attacking Myko. So why would Myko-scum allow his security to be killed?

My answer is, he wouldn't. So, if Mykonian is scum, you have to believe that Fate was more dangerous to him alive than dead. That means that Fate was zeroing in on something. If this is the theory being floated by those on the Myko-is-scum lynching committee, I want some evidence of what Fate was on to that made Mykonian so nervous he was willing to kill his alibi. Without that, there's no smoking gun to lynch Myko.

Mykonian is not confirmed town. There are no confirmed townies, not me, not Bunnylover, not Myko, no one. But Myko is not the most likely scum and he's surely not the lynch for today.

Corrections on my logic are requested and welcome.

This makes absolutely no sense. If Fate thought Mykonian was scum, why put out a random mason claim gambit that saved Myk from being lynched? If Fate thought Myk was scum, the best option was to let the lynch go through. It is obvious that Fate thought Myk was town, that's not even something that should be under debate.

Fate wouldn't want to waste his governor ability when he felt he could gambit to keep Myk alive.

Uhh...have you ever played with a governor before, Banshee? The ability to stop a lynch EVERY day is ridiculously broken and puts the entire game in the hands of a single player. This isn't Kingmaker or Consulmaker, this is a basic theme game. At best he might have had two shots, but I'm guessing the ability could only be used once.

Tell me, between which lines did I have to read or is this just filler?

[Mastermind of Sin]

You're kidding me, right?

[Banshee]

@Mastermind of Sin:

Why do you have no interest in the Jakalope wagon? Do you think he's town? What do you think of the case on him (not the lurker case, but the complete turnaround in his reads on me depending on whether or not he thought I was likely to be lynched or not)?

Do you think Bunnylover is likely to be scum? If she is lynched/nightkilled and flips scum, does that make you more suspicious of Dramonic, or does he remain at the same level?

My apologies if you've answered this, but who is your top scum suspect at the moment, and why aren't you voting him or her?

@Mykonian:
I think MoS was mostly answering me and discussing my reads in those posts; therefore if you think they're pointless I think I'm mostly to blame there.

[mykonian]

If Fate thought Myko was 100% town, MoS, why wouldn't he have just used his governor power on him?

Why go through the mason claim if he didn't have to? I think it's about 50/50 that Fate was trying to avoid being killed right away (does that happen a lot?) or that he thought Myko was town. I don't think it's beyond the pale that Fate would try to link himself to a scum in order to stay in the game longer. He's willing to gambit claim mason with people who may not even be town; why is my theory so much stranger than that anyway?

I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying that I thought about it as a possibility but then had to discard it as irrelevant when I realised that scum-Myko would never have killed town-Fate this early given the circumstances. So it honestly doesn't matter what Fate thought in any case and I'm sure he'll tell us after the game. It only matters that Myko is probably not scum because scum-Myko would have kept town-Fate alive longer imo.

This gives opinions. A train of thought. Then MoS tells you how strong the governer is. That's theory, this is scumhunting.

If the above isn't understandable, I'm sorry. It's early, or late, depending on how you look at the clock.

[chkflip]

You're kidding me, right?

[Mastermind of Sin]

@myk: Banshee was basing a lot of his "opinion" and "train of thought" on the assumption that Governor could be used every day. It was important to break him of that notion. (For the record, governor by definition is generally a one-shot role, and I don't think I've ever seen it labeled as one-shot upon death.)

@Mastermind of Sin:

Why do you have no interest in the Jakalope wagon? Do you think he's town? What do you think of the case on him (not the lurker case, but the complete turnaround in his reads on me depending on whether or not he thought I was likely to be lynched or not)?

Do you think Bunnylover is likely to be scum? If she is lynched/nightkilled and flips scum, does that make you more suspicious of Dramonic, or does he remain at the same level?

My apologies if you've answered this, but who is your top scum suspect at the moment, and why aren't you voting him or her?

@Mykonian:
I think MoS was mostly answering me and discussing my reads in those posts; therefore if you think they're pointless I think I'm mostly to blame there.

I read Jakalope as inexperienced town. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm 50/50 on Bunny being scum, and I don't think I can draw conclusions about dram's connection to bunny at this time. There isn't nearly enough evidence.

I don't have a top scum suspect. I'm waiting for something worthwhile to occur.

[dramonic]

vla sick

[chkflip]

I just participated in lynching Jak in [REDACTED] where he was playing almost exactly like this. Town.

myko's MoS vote is garbage. Scum.

Not moving my vote; however, I'd be more than willing to vote dram if it came down to it.

Kind of taking this read slow because there's a looooooottttt of back and forth. Not everything reads TvT. xRECKx v myko, for example.

[TheJakalope]

Banshee. Were you not paying attention in TV Mafia?

I'm like MoS, don't really have any top scum reads. Might reread Banshee. chk could go either way, because either he's town and thinks I'm town, or because he's scum and thinks it's likely I'll get lynched, so it will look good on a VCA.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I hate that chkflip is agreeing with me, if only because his vote on myk is so terrible right now.

I like StrangerCoug for scum. I didn't even know he was in the game until I checked the playerlist just now. A quick look at his ISO reveals that he's on the Jakwagon which is bad, and he tried to set up a one-two mislynch on DavidX and Bunny yesterday with this post:

David Xanatos is our best option here. I'm pretty sure he and Bunnylover are of opposing alignments and the way he's dealing with the claimed living cop and the masons points toward him being scum.

I'm also suspecting a possible SC/Bunny scumteam, because he made the comment above and then didn't even bother following it up the next day after David came up town. He just used it to build momentum on the DavidX lynch and then dropped it.

Either way, though, SC's actions regarding David/Bunny are scummy, regardless of Bunny's alignment. He also conveniently had an early vote on xvart coming out of RVS, only to back off and wagon Blackberry, myk, Katsuki, and myself until "calling" the hammer vote on xvart without ever addressing suspicion for him since his earlier vote (which had tenuous reasoning to begin with). Looks like someone who wanted to create distance early and then tried to get town cred for a hammer when it was clear his buddy was going to get lynched.

This is a good lynch.

[Banshee]

Banshee. Were you not paying attention in TV Mafia?

You are aware that lurking consistently throughout the game and popping in just to add a vote or a one-line comment is not considered good town play, yeah?

I was scum in TV Mafia and as such didn't care at all that you were lurking, so I didn't call you out on it until I needed/wanted to lynch you. If you are town, you are being useless and playing scummily.

I completely disagree with Mastermind of Sin on the "inexperienced town" bit. Inexperienced town tends to try far too hard. I see no evidence you're trying at all.

[mykonian]

I hate that chkflip is agreeing with me, if only because his vote on myk is so terrible right now.

Check the post stamps. If we take 48-72 hours from the post as the maximum 72 hours, Chkflip was two hours from prod range. That was a proddodge telling us it's all very difficult to read and "oh yeah myko is still scum".

Lets not do that again chk, otherwise you earn my vote. The fact that you haven't passed D2 yet and have no conclusions from those days is not a sign that you are actually trying to reread.


And to throw another tell into this: it's page 53. There is lots of information and lots of possible wagons. And there are three people voting no-one: dram, katsuki, MoS.

I wouldn't mind a kat lynch either.

vote Kat

. Bunny, we have a wagon.

[Banshee]

@Mastermind of Sin:

Have you read the game completely once through? Do you think you did so with attention to detail and a careful eye, or was it more a quick run-through to get up to the current page? (Not judging, just asking.)

[Mastermind of Sin]

Whoops, meant to tack a vote onto my last post, obviously.

Vote: StrangerCoug

No, I haven't read anything from before I replaced in (except for StrangerCoug's ISO last night).

[chkflip]

chkflp has been prodded.

Wanna try that again, myko?

[Banshee]

Whoops, meant to tack a vote onto my last post, obviously.

Vote: StrangerCoug

No, I haven't read anything from before I replaced in (except for StrangerCoug's ISO last night).

All right. Would you do me the favour of reading Jakalope in ISO, please? It's a short read and it may actually clarify for you why I think he's scum and not inexperienced town.

StrangerCoug and Dramonic are both V/LA due to illness as far as I am aware.

[mykonian]

chkflp has been prodded.

Wanna try that again, myko?

Only makes you a little less clever. You didn't dodge the prod, but just made a post to satisfy the mod.

I'd like you to satisfy me, and don't post that stuff in d2 is so terribly hard to read and that you have no conclusions from d1 either.

[chkflip]

Dude, it's D5. Absolutely nothing that I could say hasn't been said. I'm not going to "satisfy" you by any means, only solidify my reads in one direction or the other.

Sorry to disappoint.

[/sarcasm]

[mykonian]

Dude, it's D5. Absolutely nothing that I could say hasn't been said. I'm not going to "satisfy" you by any means, only solidify my reads in one direction or the other.

Say stuff of your own. And you need reads to solidify one way or another. Please share them when you get them.

[Bunnylover]

Dude, it's D5. Absolutely nothing that I could say hasn't been said. I'm not going to "satisfy" you by any means, only solidify my reads in one direction or the other.

Sorry to disappoint.

[/sarcasm]

How can you solidify your reads if you don't say nothing?

[StrangerCoug]

I like StrangerCoug for scum. I didn't even know he was in the game until I checked the playerlist just now. A quick look at his ISO reveals that he's on the Jakwagon which is bad, and he tried to set up a one-two mislynch on DavidX and Bunny yesterday with this post:

David Xanatos is our best option here. I'm pretty sure he and Bunnylover are of opposing alignments and the way he's dealing with the claimed living cop and the masons points toward him being scum.

I'm also suspecting a possible SC/Bunny scumteam, because he made the comment above and then didn't even bother following it up the next day after David came up town. He just used it to build momentum on the DavidX lynch and then dropped it.

Playing with multiple theories is fine, but I cannot be both Bunnylover's scumbuddy and trying to mislynch her. Which do you think is more likely?

StrangerCoug and Dramonic are both V/LA due to illness as far as I am aware.

I announced that I was out of V/LA and therefore feeling better the RL night after I declared it.

Dude, it's D5. Absolutely nothing that I could say hasn't been said. I'm not going to "satisfy" you by any means, only solidify my reads in one direction or the other.

Reiterating your case is sometimes necessary. The answer may be "look at post X", but the answer is never "screw you" or anything to that effect.

FoS: chkflip

[mykonian]

Dude, it's D5. Absolutely nothing that I could say hasn't been said. I'm not going to "satisfy" you by any means, only solidify my reads in one direction or the other.

Reiterating your case is sometimes necessary. The answer may be "look at post X", but the answer is never "screw you" or anything to that effect.

FoS: chkflip

reiterating what case

There are 5 playernames in those posts. He states he wants to lynch dram, god knows why. He says he hopes ludi is alright, the guy who he replaced, and he calls two votes of me terrible, being on thejak and MoS, both people he says nothing else about. Which leaves me, who got pretty much all chkflips attention.

Now who believes flippo has actually reread?

(SC, you were aware that he has just been here for today, right?)

[Mastermind of Sin]

StrangerCoug, it's a fallacy for you to try to tie your own alignment to Bunny's like that. It's completely illogical to try to isolate Bunny's own alignment based on your actions, since yours are scummy regardless of Bunny's.

[Porochaz]

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