Secret Society Mafia - Game Over

[zMuffinMan]

I'm getting to the rest of this later.

[Ghostlin]

The fact that DX had suspicion on MoI is null. While scum don't kill their suspects, MoI has a reputation as a strong town player, and was obvtown. Therefore, null.

As for IceGuy's lynching, isn't there a role whose vote decreases the amount of votes required to lynch the target it's voting on? Either that or a double-secret doublevoter.

Hang on, you actually have a point about the nature of a double-scumteam game. I suppose MoI could plausibly have been killed for that reason.

This post is seriously setting off my scumdar. Look through each paragraph carefully.

First one is hypothesizing about the NK (which on D2 is, at best, an art), and Wraith comes to no real conclusion about DX about it.

Second one is speculation about the setup, which is useless for two reasons: 1) IceGuy flipped VT, not VT-Who-Gets-Lynched-At-L-1.

2) Nobody has claimed a double vote or vote stealer ability yet. As I said before, the lack of the claim makes me think this is in fact a scum PR

. (1)

Third one is a supposition about the NK motivation all over again, but with no action based on that belief afterwards. A complete lack of initiative.

All three paragraphs are incredibly scummy. Given Wraith's wraith-like (har har har) presence in the background on D1, and this post alone, I want a wagon on him NOW.

Unvote. Vote: Wraith.

PS: Jakalope is still scum, though. The Fonz I am less sure about now. He's def playing more townish than his predecessor, so I need to go back and re-read that slot.

1) Fonz, #592. Gonna have to refute you here. DV's been accounted for in a slot that was not a huge town slot and is still, well, he's better, but is null and improving.

2) The speculation point makes more sense, due to #536--I did kinda go 'what' at the time, because I didn't know what the point was of asking me why there wasn't a kill I wasn't involved in was blocked (regardless of alignment, the question made no sense). Although there are a few people in town, myself included who did this (well, I didn't speculate, because I figured MoI dying was pretty obvious).

[Ghostlin]

QUICK QUESTION

MY SHIFT KEY SUDDENLY STARTED FUNCTIONING AS CTRL THIS MORNING FOR SOME DAMN REASON AND NOW I CAN'T USE PUNCTUATION, AND AM TOO LAZY TO SHIFT CAPS ON AND OFF OVER AND OVER

ANYONE KNOW HOW TO FIX THIS

Wraith: I'd try unplugging your keyboard, popping your out and giving your keyboard a shake to see if that improves it. You can wash a keyboard, but be careful how you do it, you don't want anything that's too soluble.

Otherwise, spend a bit and get a new one?

[Magua]

Baby Spice has been prodded.

Vote Count 2.3

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

TheJakalope (3): Global Warming, Ghostlin, StefanB
Dry-Fit (3): BBmolla, The Fonz, Yosarian2
David Xanatos (2): Maxous, PeregrineV
Alabaska J (1): zMuffinMan
BBmolla (1): Wraith
Otolia (1): sorgster
sorgster (1): Oversoul
Wraith (1): DarthYoshi

Not voting (9): Baby Spice, whispersilk, Otolia, TheJakalope, Dry-fit, Bogre, Alabaska J, ToastyToast, David Xanatos

Deadline is October 25th, at 11:00am EST.
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-10-25 11:00:00)

[David Xanatos]

Uuh, Ghostlin, who claimed DV? I don't see it..

[Wraith]

So now the space and caps lock key on my desktop keyboard are malfunctioning too so I'm guessing it's completely fucked.

Anyways DY is probably town. Scum likely would have pushed a wagon on me solely for the "LOL WRAITH LURKED DAY 1" but DY seems like he's actually put some thought into why I am scum.

[zMuffinMan]

Are you... are you retarded? Do you not think it's possible that he's scum hunting for... other scum?

[DarthYoshi]

Uuh, Ghostlin, who claimed DV? I don't see it..

Ghosty's right, I just didn't see it in my initial read-through. The Fonz claims the double vote in his #592, after his reply to me about meta.

Are you... are you retarded? Do you not think it's possible that he's scum hunting for... other scum?

Every time you hint that I am scum, why are you not hearing the jingle "the cheese stands alone" ringing in your ears?

PS: If you think Wraith's reason for a townread on me is weak (which it kinda is), shouldn't that be indicative of his scumminess as well? He offers scumhunting as a towntell but is doing none himself.

[Ghostlin]

12. Ghostlin: Claimed vig. No problem with this claim; I kind of thought Ghost looked town-ish on day 1 anyway. Interesting that there were only two kills last night, but there are multiple plausible explanations for that. I don’t really get *why* he claimed when he did, though, when under no pressure, or why he felt he had to make clear right away that he was a “1-shot vig”. That being said, probably town.

There were a few unspoken questions here. Let me answer them.

1) I only had one Vig shot. I executed it on EC. I wanted to debunk the WIFOM on 'why would anyone kill EC?' now--I killed him because his blind wagonning was a scumtell, he was unlikely to see a noose the way he was lurking Day 1, and well, honestly, I chose a non-contributing possible scum to shoot now instead of having them kinda just be there until Lylo.
2) If more than two kills get executed, while I may be suspected, I want it to be painfully clear I cannot Vig NK past this point. (It's also a check and balance to see if I'm lying.)
3) There is another reason why claiming the NK now works to the purposes of myself and town.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: No, sadly, Yos, you don't get full disclosure on 3.

[StefanB]

TheFonz: Yes I assume that he knew that we have to scumteams, because that was a big topic at the begining of day 1. Sorry to miss it would be posible for someone who just replaced in, not for someone playing the game.

For 2 scumteams meaning that people can be scum without beeing it together with another player, that is so obvious that I can't believe that someone missed that. Sorry I don't wan't to assume that anyone in this game is that stupid.

For the slip to work TheJakolopesthinking would have been like this. He sees 2 people he believes are scummy. He knows who is in scumteam 1. He knows that both players are not in his scumteam. (Both were town) He believes that they can't be scum together. So they can't be scum together for him. That's what he posted.

Sorry no knowing that anyone is town required. I do think that is the most logical explanation of his post.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin : sorgster is maybe WIFOMing the hell out of me, but you sure smoke too much happy weed.

Otolia, that was easily one of the weakest cases I've seen, followed by one of the most... overtly paranoidly interesting defensives I've ever seen, I could EASILY see it as a distancing bus on behalf of one of you and sorg, I could easily see you both together as partners.

Hell, replace the word 'bus' in the 'You're trying to frame me' sentence, and you don't lose that much in the translation.

[ToastyToast]

16-20

This is exactly the way scum would discredit his own voters. Calling them out when also calling someone out that is not on the wagon to have a buffer for when people say it is omgus.

Except all 3 people he called out all did have terribad votes.

@Otoila: You can't just excuse all your statements as "sarcastic" or (earlier) "passive scum-hunting." Either way, they're still bad posts.

I basically proposed an agreement to MoI. It showed willingness to participate - what I was accused of not doing - but was not acceptable because I wanted him to unvote me (as you nicely pointed out).

except you did it after being called out for not doing any thing. And yes, I would consider a "I'll do this if you unvote me" deal as very anti-town.

Also, I'm pretty sure MoI would be unafraid to get into a rhetorical fight. Logic is kind of his game.

It could indicate that he doesn't want to draw too much attention towards himself as town (possibly a PR)

So, basically, if you are scum you think MoI has a high chance of being a power role. So, you NK him. The rest of the argument (if town) just shows how you can't win an argument without insult. Also, (if town), you just pointed scum to a PR.

Whispersilk suddenly becoming more active after being called out on her odd "its ok if I lurk" thing gets +scumpoints. If you know your meta you can manipulate it.

I really don't think Otolia should be
the lynch.

And what have you done that makes your though oh so important in this game?

Prove it. don't say it

yeah THIS POST stands out to me a lot. i agree; this looks like scum jumping off a scum lynch the first chance he gets

....but you did the exact same thing.....

@DarthYoshi: I see the problems with sage, but I also think other people here are much scummier.

Whispersilk's defense against MoI redeems her a bit, and shows that she's ready to be active. MoI owns Otolia again tho.
Oversoul your post is too long. Skimming it gives me a leaning town read tho.
Jackalope lookin' bad with his latest prod dodge
Ghostlin....how is DX your strongest read? I would rank at least cookie higher. I think I'm having the most trouble getting a read on you, similar to how I stuggled getting a read on yosarian in Amrun's Death of ReaperCharlie.
Otoilia's bitchin' about Oversoul's post...of course someone reading through the game is going to sound a little disconnected. WHy? Because they haven't caught up yet and therefore their comments are going to be on older material.
Peregrine hops onto the sage wagon, admits he's sheeping, but hasn't read the case on sage. Wthe?
BBmolla is being way too passive.
Ice's last effort to save himself in summary: defends Otolia and BS (saying the cases on them are based on a single post), calls Muffin and sage scum. Agree that Baby is probtown, disagree on Otolia. Muffin could be a teams "active leader," but that is something I can only determine based on other scumflips.
Sage admits her scumminess. Could be scum or town, sorta null. I just don't like the whole "yeah, I should be lynched for that" attitude (defeatist).

Scum reads after page 20: Otolia, GlobalWarming, EtheralCookie, Maxous, AlabaskaJ, and sage/BBmolla/Jackalope (they are all pretty much even in my book, and all have similar reasons for being scum. sage is the most active, but none of them are giving information about their reads)

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Last sentence should read 'frame' for 'bus' in the 'You're trying to frame me' sentence. It'll make sense if you make the substitution.

[BBmolla]

Toasty you've conveniently completely ignored Dry-Fit.

What's your read on him?

People on the lame Jakolope wagon too, what's your read on Dry?

[Ghostlin]

Toasty you've conveniently completely ignored Dry-Fit.

What's your read on him?

People on the lame Jakolope wagon too, what's your read on Dry?

Null. He's been scumhunting just enough for me not to want to hang him over the number of lovely candidates at our disposal, but I'm not protesting the existance of his wagon today. #76 and #129 I agree with, it's many of the same problems I have with Jak; he calls out Sorg in #329 (pretty much for not scumhunting), and Sage in #377 for #315.

However

...we don't know exactly what he agreed with on the Otalia wagon, #558 isn't really anything too new from the things he's dug up, and he's not present with any town reads. However he is trying besides doing: one of X, Y, and Z are scum. And he takes time to pay attention somewhat and play the game.

Not really much else to skim here. #404 is meh (it doesn't read as if it was posted by town or scum). #599 is a defense of play based on meta, which depending on who you are, has more or less value. I find it null-y, meta can be changed somewhat over time as the player learns to play and gets comfortable in a role (town, third party, or scum).

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: What's your acutal --case-- on Dry-Fit? He called you out in #126, and you kinda went 'that's over aggressive' in #213. If that's the entire point of your 'read' on him, sorry, some people scumhunt by being aggressive and pushy. (Exhibit: any Fate game that's finished. Or GI, when you really get him riled.)

[whispersilk]

Whispersilk also surprised me with her post, considering we did a lot of fighting about her wanting to lurk Day 1.

Sorry, which post are you referring to here?

Doing a catch up atm.

[David Xanatos]

I wouldn't call Fate aggressive. That's like calling fried butter on a stick "slightly unhealthy".

[Global Warming]

16. Global Warming (a hydra of RayFrost + ConSpiracy) - Both competent, I tend to disagree with RayFrost a lot in general

Thanks, I needed this. I am feeling fairly incompetent in the last few days.

To end p4

StefanB and MOI have the 'willing to start an argument about nothing' towntell. SB not wolf.

Elaborate on the StephanB not wolf please.

Okay, this time I didn't fall into the not loking right trap. The Fonz posting * behind the names of BabySpice and Alabaska just meaned proded.

So...?

At the Moment,

Vote: Alabaska

, him beeing still on BabySpice during the lynch made less sense.

What a crap reason to vote.

Believe Ghostlins vigclaim. There is a question about it in my mind, but I am not quite sure if it is helpful, so will not ask.

What is the use of this?

Wraith: I vote for Alabaska for besides lurking beeing on a dead wagon and fosing but not voting. He was besides you (and you were VLA) the only one still on BabySpice the time of the lynching. It feels strange.
Why do you feel the need to point that out now and exspecially about Alabaska when he isn't the first lurker voted today? (not even the first one to get 2 votes)
Why do you feel the need to defend him and not others?
On your lynchlist are lurkers!!
The role your are searching for is called hated townie, and I am quite sure, if that were in his rolePM IceGuy would have claimed.?

I am getting the feeling that the only thing you want to do is target lurkers.

StephanB is looking more and more scum.
Maxous is giving us an off feeling.
Our vote might be changing.

- CS

[DarthYoshi]

People on the lame Jakolope wagon too, what's your read on Dry?

I keep forgetting that he is even in this game. Which is a bad sign.

Why is the Jak wagon lame again?

Sidebar: Gut instinct about CS's last post as GW is bad. I modded a game with him as scum recently (Newbie 1136), and he would post exactly like this--some line-by-line, but over mostly irrelevant stuff and being very uncommittal about his vote. And I'm still not sure I believe the miller claim, so

FoS GW.

[whispersilk]

@whisper: why did you feel the need to explain your entire meta? All it means is that you know it well enough to manipulate it.

God, it was just meant to be a funny way to introduce myself after barely posting in the game up till that point. If I had known it would cause such a fuss, I would have simply said nothing and just got on with the game.

[Yosarian2]

That's like the list of obvious people to suspect.

I've voiced suspicion of all of them before

Fine fine, those were the two people BS was attacking, but it’s an odd question, almost manipulative-feeling. Even odder is the way he then never follows up, or even mentions BS ever again.

This is the way I play. Semioldguy described mine as an "ask questions but not follow up playstyle" here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p2154973 and I think that's a fair assessment.

I might not get through this reread tonight as today was busier than expected but I'll get started. Also I will be V/LA this weekend and probably won't be able to post.

I would describe your playstyle this game as "isn't really looking for scum himself, trying to post just enough to avoid getting called out as a lurker, quietly follow onto mediocre bandwagons other people start."

Are you going to claim that's your town meta as well? Because it looks a lot like textbook scum-flying-under-the-radar play to me.

[Otolia]

@Ghostlin : sorgster is maybe WIFOMing the hell out of me, but you sure smoke too much happy weed.

Otolia, that was easily one of the weakest cases I've seen, followed by one of the most... overtly paranoidly interesting defensives I've ever seen, I could EASILY see it as a distancing bus on behalf of one of you and sorg, I could easily see you both together as partners.

Hell, replace the word 'bus' in the 'You're trying to frame me' sentence, and you don't lose that much in the translation.

I don't really see in which occasion would sorgster (who isn't the most fluent mafia player in this game) would bus me to gain towncred. It doesn't make sense because he is in a weak position and the towncred he would gain wouldn't certainly stay until the end particularly given the big unknown part in the setup. The only case you could argue we are both scummy is that we are on opposed scumteams. I am not really paranoid on this particular attack, it's just I feel strange he would put up something like this. Either he knows something I don't and I want to know that as well, or he is mistaken. But let that aside until he replies.

I have the biggest difficulties getting into the game, and I have to say that ToastyToast outdated reads are really not helping.

I wanted to put advance on my BabySpice case but she has gone missing site-wide. Maxous and Dry-Fit are in maximum lurking mode so it makes allthemore difficult to get reads.

And since I saw I wasn't voting, I'm going to hoping to focus on the following player.

VOTE: TheJakalope

[Ghostlin]

Whispersilk also surprised me with her post, considering we did a lot of fighting about her wanting to lurk Day 1.

Sorry, which post are you referring to here?

Doing a catch up atm.

Whisper: #538. We could use some more analysis like #538 devoted to the current situtation.

DX: Yes, but I didn't want to post, "You're calling some people

too aggressive

? There are some raging maniacs out there," in respect to those players, because they're not bad at what they do when you see them in action. I've gotten lynched almost entirely due to GI once. Those kinda players can radiate a kinda of aura that makes you paying attention to who they're attacking, or as scum, radiate a lot of noise. A LOT of noise. Their play style is kinda like plugging in a toaster and throwing in into a full bathtub.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm reading a few people in this town and get instantly struck by a 'that's a overtly sensitive' kind of AtE I don't trust from players that seem to have been around a bit.