The Aftermath - Victors Announced

[Kublai Khan]

confirm

[Kublai Khan]

Reck, I've been away a little while. Wanna fill me in?

I'm not Reck, but I'm pretty certain it refers to the fact that they are a sort of clan...

...that screams at you....

.....Until you die.....

...



VOTE: SpyreX because he needs to spend less time on mafia and more time with his family. C'mon everyone. Let's help him break his mafia habit.

[Kublai Khan]

Statement: at least one of the SDC is scum.

What are you figuring the odds to be?

[Kublai Khan]

Pine is town too. What an easy game.

Pine's still on my watchlist. Today's lynch should be one of the following:

Majority of scum lies within the following

(will continue to narrow down as day progresses)
chunkykev
Fate
Grimmjow
kuribo
Lowell
malthusis
My Milked Eek
Pine
Rhinox
Shattered Viewpoint
xRECKONERx
Zdenek

UNVOTE: SpyreX (No longer on watchlist)
VOTE: kuribo (currently most scummy)

[Kublai Khan]

I love well thought out cases.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

[Kublai Khan]

I love well thought out cases.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

But often the most telling. I notice you dodging the implicit question...so I'll make it explicitly stated. Why is kuribo the most scummy? I almost jumped on kuribo for fluffy posting, too, but fluffy posting is only an actual problem if it is in lieu of content or distracting other players. Kuribo is posting in volume, and meets neither of the aforementioned requirements to be considered bad fluff.

So again, what's your case on kuribo?

It's Day 1. I'm taking people off my lynch list if they post or do something even remotely pro-town. kuribo has the most posts with the least pro-town feel. Therefore scummiest.

His fluff has been bad fluff, and he's aggresively sarcastic for no reason.

You have a better case?

bro, there ain't a fire hot enough to kill me

Except my hair. (Look out! KK might wag his finger disapprovingly at me for having fun at the same time as I take the game seriously!)

Oh! Ha-HA! You're making jokes! That'll get us somewhere! Let's just fuck around until deadline! Weeee! Gingers! Ha-ha-ha.

[Kublai Khan]

NO NO, YOU SEE, I AM NEEDLESSLY SARCASTIC AND HOSTILE AND THAT MAKES ME SCUM BECAUSE

It's a psychological ploy. If you want people to ignore you, then you act really annoying and sarcastic.

mehhh KK might be town but he sure is as hell is wrong about Kuribo.

Pff. 4 pages to work with? Even I'd be surprised if I had a slam-dunk case. Still, my gut is happy with where my vote is.

[Kublai Khan]

It's a psychological ploy. If you want people to ignore you, then you act really annoying and sarcastic.

THIS IS THE DUMBEST FUCKING THING I'VE EVER READ THAT DIDN'T INVOLVE SPARKLY VAMPIRES

Then why are you posting like a cheap Fate knock-off? This isn't your usual playstyle. You're trying to blend in with the loud crowd.

[Kublai Khan]

It's a psychological ploy. If you want people to ignore you, then you act really annoying and sarcastic.

THIS IS THE DUMBEST FUCKING THING I'VE EVER READ THAT DIDN'T INVOLVE SPARKLY VAMPIRES

Then why are you posting like a cheap Fate knock-off? This isn't your usual playstyle. You're trying to blend in with the loud crowd.

BITCH, I WAS FATE BEFORE FATE WAS FATE

YOU DON'T KNOW A GOD DAMN THING ABOUT ME OR MY PLAY STYLE

Actually, I was reading up on your game-history. Turns out we're newb-buddies (though I posted under a different name then). Small world.

[Kublai Khan]

RAAAAAAHHHH! FAKE RAGE!

I'm getting bored with you.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm getting bored with you.

that's funny, because your pathetic attempts to build a retarded case against me are getting me turned on

I'm calling you scummiest after 4 pages, and you're expecting a non-retarded case?

You're spending all your energy railing against me and not bothering to make a case against anyone. Why the fuck should my attitude towards you change?

[Kublai Khan]

I'm calling you scummiest after 4 pages, and you're expecting a non-retarded case?

so you're saying that your "case" against me is bullshit

Yeah, I said that back on page 5. Maybe you missed it when you were frottaging your monitor.

[Kublai Khan]

SO DO YOU ROUTINELY MAKE RETARDED CASES AGAINST PEOPLE?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

[Kublai Khan]

SO DO YOU ROUTINELY MAKE RETARDED CASES AGAINST PEOPLE?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

DON'T EVEN TRY AND PRETEND THAT WAS A LOADED QUESTION

It is a loaded question, but I'll answer it anyways.

Yeah, I sometimes make retarded cases against people. Sometimes it's because I'm an idiot and am way off base. Sometimes it's because I want to see reactions (both from the target of the case and from who bandwagons).

In your case, describing the case as bullshit/retarded is an exaggeration. It's a weak case. But in my defense it's an extremely early game gut case. And you're reacting to it badly.

[Kublai Khan]

Cognitive dissonance? KK didn't post at all between "Vote: KK" and "KK might be Town".

Pro-tip: Fate is the ultimate stream-of-consciousness player. He doesn't let anything stop him from posting his thoughts as he has them. Not even the fact that he's responding to old stuff and newer stuff exists that he hasn't read yet.

Also, after sleeping on it, I'm not digging the case on kuribo anymore. xRECKONERx has been bugging me. His posts have no townie soul to them.

UNVOTE: kuribo
VOTE: xRECKONERx

Sleepless Assassin is back on my watch list. Fate, Pine, & Zdenek are no longer on it.

[Kublai Khan]

you wanna talk about forcedrage and no townie soul to posts?

check out dis post above me

That post above yours (193) was terribad. But your posts have been terribad too.

But I don't think you two are scum together.

[Kublai Khan]

why are my posts terribad

every one is just a reiteration of me trying to get kuribo lynched or progress the game

You answered your own question. Just repeating that kuribo is scum without offering new evidence is a waste of time and doesn't convince anyone.

No question.

Seriously? You've been here over a year, you should know these things already.

In other words, why didn't you vote Fate for saying that's he's bussing someone?

You weren't really scummy at all until then. You started using them more or less around the time your wagon took off. None of it has the rage I know and embrace. You used caps because you felt like it. So, if you weren't angry, ???

He's scared. Anger=/=Fear

To be fair, fear leads to anger.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to suffering

nah, you know damn well this question is bullshit, especially with this game having so few active posters

Oh shit, a "Hey! Let's stop talking about me and let's talk about lurkers!" deflection? When is that not scummy?

I like my Town to talk more and blather less. You're doing entirely too much of the latter.

Coaching.

Any reason for not "digging the case" anymore or have we to guess what you were dreaming about?

Two reasons.
1) Re-evaluate the case. kuribo's CAPS, insults, and

edgy

talk about his erect nipples exist as an attempt to throw-off people's objectivity towards him. I wanted to take a little time off of tunneling him because I wanted to make sure I'm not falling in the trap of lynching an annoying townie.
2) To check for both his reaction and xRECKONERx's reaction to the vote change.. It's notable that I'm not worth a mention to kuribo now that I'm not voting him.

you said somewhere in this thread that you were looking into kuribo's past games. links please? It feels like kuribo caught you in a lie about his playstyle and you made up this excuse really quickly to cover yourself.

You can find his game links by clicking on the wiki button. I know it's a new feature to mafiascum, so I'll excuse your busy-posting this one time.

so you're someone that played in modern family mafia and you're too chickenshit to say who you are

Was Nobody Special in Modern Family Mafia?

Because I have strong reason to suspect that Nobody Special is Shattered Viewpoint.

[Kublai Khan]

You can find his game links by clicking on the wiki button. I know it's a new feature to mafiascum, so I'll excuse your busy-posting this one time.

I was more intersted in hearing what games you specifically looked at that led you to your conclusion that kuribo isn't playing how he usually plays.

Umm.. Any of them? Click on a game, display posts by user "kuribo", note the overall lack of all caps RAGING/anatomical references/etc. I noted that it's a change in posting style and mostly likely was done to match up to the players specifically in this game.

He did have a point about the gap of time between the wiki games and today, so I let the topic drop.

PREVIEW EDIT:

and I don't recall suggesting we go after lurkers, you disingenuous tool, I said I can't claim to have a read on people based on one or two posts. Big fucking difference, there, captain literacy.

Then why mention the lurkers? Who specifically has been lurking so much that you can't get a read?

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: you seriously can't tell who hasn't been posting? And you're too dumb to realize that I said that several pages ago, and that several people have come around to post since then?

Would you drop the dumb and angry act for a goddamn second?

Lurking is a fucking subjective thing. So let me ask again with emphasis on the fact that I want

YOU

to list who

YOU

think is still lurking so much

at this point in the game

that you can't get a read on them yet.

Out of curiosity I went to kuribo's wiki clicked the first game on the list, mini 712 from 2008. There is some occasional use of caps scattered throughout his iso, here is an example I came across after no more than 30seconds of looking. Granted its not used as generously as kuribo is using in this game but the groundwork is there.

Yeah, I could find the occasional CAPS post, but not a strategy of using them.

If he's embellishing a bit more to be like the cool kids in this game how does that make him scum?

It's an attempt at manipulation (aka Psychological ploy).

The issue with the gap of time between games for me was that when you first accused kuribo of not playing how he usually plays it came across as you having first hand knowledge about how he usually plays and then after kuribo pointed out the gap you were like ACTUALLY I was looking into your past games and by the way we were newbies together - just seemed like how scum like to talk their way out of things.

I didn't mean to ever imply that I had first hand knowledge of his play style. I just knew that he wasn't in the SDC group of posters and initial meta-gaming researched showed that it wasn't his particular style.

After about twenty/thirty minutes of reading/skimming his history, I realized that his first game was my first game. Then I read his posts about how years-long time gap should allow for changes in playstyle and I figured that he had a point. So I dropped it.

[Kublai Khan]

Seriously? You've been here over a year, you should know these things already.

In other words, why didn't you vote Fate for saying that's he's bussing someone?

I've found it to be the opposite. People who are annoying and sarcastic are abrasive and usually paid attention to more than people who are generally polite. So I think you are wrong.

Second, I don't see how I said that Fate is bussing someone.

Wait, were you actually asking me why I didn't vote Fate because Fate said that he's bussing someone? Because that's really fucking stupid.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Fate is regularly annoying and sarcastic and abrasive. Yet you pay him less attention.

He (and anyone who just RAGES POINTLESSLY IN CAPSLOCK) is/are the hipster(s) of mafiascum. It's much easy on the mind to pretend they don't exist until you have to acknowledge their presence by necessity.

[Kublai Khan]

Pine, if you see a self aligned tell, as town, do you seriously just ignore it? I didn't vote the guy for a reason. I'd rather lynch mafia than self-aligned scum.

Good lord that's a dumb comment.

Every Role PM will end with either:

Alignment: You are pro-town, you win when all anti-town players have been killed or nothing can prevent the same.

Note: there are only two factions.

OR

Alignment: You are anti-town, you win when all pro-town players have been killed or nothing can prevent the same.

Note: there are only two factions.

[Kublai Khan]

Was about to contradict the Survivor speculation, but then I remembered we were in the Theme Park (I mostly play large Normals). Good to remember, we could be dealing with all kinds of crazy shit roles.

PE: Spyrex, care to actually express an opinion? Do you agree or disagree with SA's alleged self-aligned tell, do you agree with my calling him out for fabricating it, and do you find such preoccupation with third parties on D1 to be as scummy as I do? Note that all three of these questions are mutually exclusive, though related.

Pine can't read the rules either. The sad part is that there's only 5 rules.

[Kublai Khan]

Also, chunkykev really should quit fucking around and put a vote down somewhere.

My Milked Eek needs to post and put a vote down.

Nobody should ever be "Not Voting" at any time on Day 1.

[Kublai Khan]

really, I take one night off and I have to reread 4 pages?

no, not happening, I'm not doing mini-catchups every time I go to bed early or some shit

What the shit is this.
This is so completely out of character, and off the wall, that this phrase right here is worth a few lynches alone.

I told you something was off about his posts. That's just more evidence.

Also, town-xRECKONERx probably wouldn't have cared what he posted when he was drunk. But he never drunk-posted in this game.

chunkykev gets scummier for vote-avoiding.

[Kublai Khan]

I will not be voting just because someone says I should be or not voting throughout day 1 looks scummy (which is nonsense). I will vote when I have a reason to as I mentioned earlier.

It doesn't look scummy. It is scummy. Your only vote in this game is your "joke-vote" which you immediately retracted.

Your play in this game has been composed of nothing be challenging other people's votes and reads, yet your reads and votes are very scarse. Anyone who calls anyone else town is particularly distasteful to you. Anytime you have expressed any suspicion, you've not backed it up with any kind of vote. To wit:

While I agree that Kuribo is looking scummiest just now

Sleepless has moved up my scum list as the post seems inconsistent with his own actions and nothing more than buddying up to me.

These are the only two players you've called suspicious, and both of them have had the biggest wagons on them. By not voting, you're soft-backing those wagons with a "I'm for them, but I'm not going to put myself on record as supporting them". You're playing exactly like a mafioso who is extremely tentative about joining a wagon unless he knows it's going to be a lynching wagon.

UNVOTE: xRECKONERx
VOTE: chunkykev

Sleepless Assassin's reads don't interest me in the slightest. He's at L-1. He needs to claim.

[Kublai Khan]

DGB isn't even pretending to try anymore

Have you not played with the aspect of DrippingGoofball's personality that makes lists? When she's town, those lists tend to be holy gospel of where scum are.

Though I recall she usually includes little cutesy reasonings.

[Kublai Khan]

blah blah blah votes are srs bsn

Yeah, that's a bunch of bullshit. Your vote isn't more IMPACTFUL because you vote less. By refusing to vote you're just muddying the water to see who's going to take a drink.

To wit:

It has not gone unnoticed that your (Khan’s) attack on me heated up soon after I brought up a possible link between you and SA (You mentioned I should put a vote down in post #420. I questioned SA about a possible link to you in post #473 and then you call me scummy for the first time in post #477). Could be coincidence, but I’ve learned to keep a close eye on any “coincidences” you notice in a mafia game.

What the fuck is this double-talk? You say it might be a "coincidence" (note sinister quotation marks), but you acknowledge that my reason for calling you scummy is for reasons stated prior to the basis of your "coincidence".

And you don't back up your suspicions with a vote, you just want other people to think of me as scummy so you can jump on the wagon later on. Pussy.

Khan, the only reason to claim is if you are definitely going to be lynched otherwise. I AM NOT CLAIMING UNLESS IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. Also, at the time of your post, I was at L-3, not L-1. Less players claiming is better, so why claim if a lynch isn't 95% guaranteed yet?

At the time, I thought you were at L-1 with chunkykev threatening to hammer.

Preview Edit: Noticed kuribo's post, answering it next.

[Kublai Khan]

* Claims to know my style. Then admits that he based this on wiki pages that he skimmed. DID imply that he had first-hand knowledge by saying that we played in a newbie game together. Too chickenshit to say who he was back then.

1) By your "style" I meant your ALL-CAPS posting. I know that Fate, SpyreX, SocioPath, and xRECKONERx will RAGE post because I played with them. Ellibereth, I assumed would post because of the SDC association. You are not in that select group. Skimming your wiki reveals that you don't usually post in all-caps. Hence my comment that you aren't playing to the same style.
2) You didn't ask. I posted as Unright.

* When it was pointed out that, yes, I've been hostile toward others for years, (as shown by the VERY FUCKING WIKI HE SKIMMED) he poo-pooed it with "Oh, well, the groundwork was there." The game that was linked to him was the game were I called Sun_Tzu a "FLAMING ASSMASTER." I'm a douche. I know it. I'm fine with it, and it's been a part of how I play Mafia for a long time. To try and paint it otherwise is disingenuous as fuck. Claims that it's all a "psychological ploy" and that I'm trying to avoid attention. Anyone who's ever met me for five seconds knows that I FUCKING LOVE ATTENTION. Too god damn smug for his own good.

Just because you don't understand the argument, it doesn't make it disingenuous.

* Tries to make it look like I'm going after lurkers. What? There's no god damn way anyone with an ounce of self-respect could have read what I said that way.

You were asked: "When are you going to have reads?"
You answered: "[...] this question is bullshit, especially with this game having so few active posters"
I interpreted that you were blaming lurkers for your lack of reads. I asked you who was lurking so much that you couldn't read them, you dodged the question. You're still dodging the question by insisting that it's obvious.

* He pushes for Assassin to claim. That must mean he thought Assassin was scum, right? WRONG. He has NEVER ONCE voted for Assassin, and even when SA was caught trying to hunt third parties, his only reply was "Good lord, that's dumb." You're god damn right it's dumb, and dumber still that you handwaved it so you could...

Like I said, I misread. chunkykev's threat to hammer made me think that Silent Assassin was at L-1. I don't particularly think that Silent Assassin is scum, but if over half the game wants to lynch him then they needs to claim, not go "hold on people! I have reads! Oh shit, this'll take awhile, give me a few days!"

* Make assumptions about Reck's drunk posting. Hahaha, what the fuck is this? I don't even know how to start with the stupid that Khan vomited all over the thread with this shit.

Fucking hell it was a mistake to answer this damn post point by point. Are you too retarded to notice the absolute mind-blowing irony of you thinking a posted observation is shitty? Have you iso'd yourself lately?

* What was the point of asking me who I thought was lurking? I THINK IT'S PRETTY FUCKING OBVIOUS WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE. Who among you can get a read on Maltusius who's posted like, three times? Or MME who by now should have someone go to his house and see if he's still alive? Why did Khan take a question asked of me by EK back on page, like what? 7? And push it on page god-knows-what as if I were still dodging it somehow?

Didn't I answer this? Are you so short of material that you have to repeat stuff to give your case more substance? (I really fought the urge to put sarcastic quotes around the word case)

* Accuses chunky of providing little to no substance with his complaints about peoples' playstyle... and yet makes excuses for DGB's explanationless lists? Says she "usually includes little cutesy reasonings," and then... disappears?

You know what? I know where DrippingGoofball stands on every poster in this game, including who she can't get a read on because they haven't posted enough. I don't know where chunkykev stands and I don't know where you stand. Guess why I'm going to vote DrippingGoofball today?

* Accuses chunky of only finding the two biggest suspects supsicious, but what? Who have been Khan's suspects? Me. (Biggest wagon first ten pages) Reck. He wants SA to claim at what he thinks is L-1 but is unwilling to have ever thrown his vote on there or even to question SA further.

WTF? Are you re-writing history? I voted xRECKONERx to bring his wagon up to two. My vote is on chunkykev which brings his total up to two. I was the third person on your fucking wagon. If my wagons become big it's because I point out shit that awfully suspicious to me. I put my vote where my mouth is and I speak my mind. I don't back down from people questioning me and trying to paint my scum-hunting as suspicious.

Give me your fucking analysis of chunkykev.

What we see here is a pattern of Khan being real fucking selective about who he wants to be seen putting the screws to.

Good fucking job Sherlock. That's the pattern of my whole fucking game history on mafiascum. I've hidden your award inside your wrists, so keep slicing until you find it.

[Kublai Khan]

That's just off the top of my fucking head! NOTICE MY FUCKING ALIGNMENT IN THOSE GAMES, YOU IDIOT. I get annoyed and frustrated when people act like they don't have the brains that god (supposedly) put in their goddamn heads.

Let me guess this straight. You're still having an aneurysm because I voted for you in the 78th post of this game and didn't have a very good reason. Am I understanding you right?

I'm not even voting you. You're not even near the top of my scum-list. You brought a shitty case against me. I refuted it, and you respond with "FUCKING LYNCH ME BITCH!"?

I can't even understand your thought process at this point.

[Kublai Khan]

But you have no idea if the reads are based on scum knowing people's alignment, random gut feelings, meta or something that's happened in the thread. That's why Goofball's lists are totally useless without more information to accompany them.

This is a criticism of DrippingGoofball and anyone else that has posted reads or placed votes with no reasoning accompanying it.

It's day 1 with no information. If she's town then it's obviously some level of gut. If she's scum, then reasonable assumptions can be made about who she's bussing/covering for.

Also, don't assume that I think that DrippingGoofball has posted enough substance. She could and should post reasonings (and usually has in the past).

How don't you? Have you not been reading the threads? I've given opinions on several people and questioned others. If I haven't given an indication of where I am about somebody then it is because I don't have a strong feeling either way about them. I'm not going to do a list of everyone like Goofball just so you know who I don't have a read on and who I find suspicious, when my views have already been made. If you were a good townie, surely you would have this information in your notes? But for the record, I don't have anyone as "likely town"

I've never keep notes while playing mafia. The ability to isolate a user's posts and read their history is all I need. Which is why I put a premium on people putting their votes where their mouth is. If they don't, then any hard questioning can be later rationalized as "it was just questions".

khan, you don't have to be fucking voting for me to be lobbing half ass potshots and soft attacks.

and yeah, I fucking admit, that psychological ploy bullshit pissed me the fuck off. Because you and I both know it was bullshit and you were just begging to be called out on it.

I lob potshots and soft attacks for the same reason that you taunt. It upsets people and might cause them to reveal something accidentally while they are flying off the handle.

I've been reading your responses and while you seemed a little disingenuous as first, you've been sliding down the scum list to near town.

The psychological ploy thing is valid. People tend to naturally dismiss brash and annoying people as not worth arguing with. Do you stop to refute raving street preachers everytime you pass one by?

[Kublai Khan]

malth to full scum and not eek through ISO instead of activity records trolololol.

This.

@DrippingGoofball: Why?

[Kublai Khan]

How is DrippingGoofball like America?

She's the land of opportunity...istic scum..

(was that too much of a stretch? Well, fuck it, I'm rolling)

The wagon on DrippingGoofball is shite. There's no real subtance to it. Anyone who is scum can just say to themselves "A Fate GOGOGOGOGO wagon? I'm in!" then post some vague non-meta reasoning "town wouldn't play that way" and vote. DrippingGoofball is even offering herself up to be lynched a la Metropolis: Revisited which makes her a strong town read for me.

I'd much rather see a Day 1 lynch of one of the following. Because I'm positive that scum lies within.

chunkykev

- I made a case against him and he responded and I was going to let it go, but then he completely and totally capitulates and votes. And it's a bad vote at that. If you want to save up your votes and make them precious, then that's your philosophy. But your "Enough's enough. Khan is going to get his wish..." post is straight up appeasement and blame shifting. I checked your iso, you've never asked DrippingGoofball any direct questions about any specific reads, you've just asked vague-y "Are you going to contribute?" questions which are insulting to answer for anybody.
tl;dr Unfocused scum-hunting + opportunistic vote = scum

Shattered Viewpoint

- Absolutely weak lurky play. I hate going after lurkers because unfortunately some townies think it's perfectly ok to lurk. But compare Shattered Viewpoint's iso to Lowell's (another notorious lurker). Lowell is giving out minimal information, but he is providing reads and votes. Since Day 1 is usually a crapshoot, I'm not against taking out someone that's going to lurk conspiciously and will continually give us doubt throughout the game.

xRECKONERx
- Like I said before: no townie soul. First thing that bugged me was the "one of the SDC is scum" comment. I've seen large games fantastically well when a voting bloc emerges of people that can get a quick town read on each other. xRECKONERx's comment served to de-rail the SDC from the get-go and get them paranoid with the use of dubious math. Then he backs it up with a dumb challenge to Fate. Then he defends grimmjow when grimmjow needs no defending. You say boyfriend, I see buddying. You stop as soon as he calls you on it.

I know kuribo called me out on the drunk-posting comment. I'll admit that it's a minor thing that may mean nothing, but it nags at me. Just feels like damage control.

Plus there's the opportunistic vote on DrippingGoofball.

tl;dr xRECKONERx isn't scum-hunting. He's fucking around and jumping on wagons. Scum-tell.

[Kublai Khan]

I had to be THAT that guy, but DGB haas faked the woe as me just lynch me then as scum. On my phone can't link it, but it was Mafia Invictus. Look ths is gonna be hard to dance around and scumbuddies like Spy are gonna beall "don't lynch her that's mean" but we NEED to lynch scum to win.

(Added link for you)
She's also done the "fuck this game, just lynch me and get me out of it" as town (Metropolis:Revisited). Which is what her play in this game reminds me of.

[Kublai Khan]

are you willing to stake your life on that?

because I'll go 1v1 with you in a fucking heartbeat if it gets me out of this game faster

Also I just don't want to put up with this game anymore...we're 28 fucking pages in and have gotten NOWHERE.

It's shit like this that make me not see you as town, xRECKONERx. DrippingGoofball just got town-love for pulling the same stunt. Any copycat behavior is automatically going to be scummy as the likelyhood of sincerity diminishes.

Regarding my 1v1 with KK: I always have trouble reading him properly. He's an enigma for me, and I always tend to read him as scummy... but I'm biased, because I caught him as scum here.

Well, you definitely screwed over my scum-team in that game because RisingPhoenix shit his pants. But individually, I'd say that mastin2's tunnelling and self-sacrifice got me lynched in that game (to my annoyance).

@kuribo and elvis_knits - Can we leave picture posting for the "ITT we post pictures" thread? Neither of you are likely scum so neither of you are getting lynched today. There's no point in you two going after each other.

@everyone: Who is against lynching chunkykev at this point? Shattered Viewpoint? xRECKONERx?

[Kublai Khan]

oh what the hell did I just wake up to... this kev wagon isn't great guys

Oh, fucking hell. You were cheering his dayvig but now you don't want him lynched?

Though I'm okay with everyone on the chunkykev wagon switching their votes to the guy you're voting.

[Kublai Khan]

I wasn't cheering his dayvig... I just wanted PROGRESS.

Bullshit.

Someone who wants PROGRESS would be trying to push a better wagon. Not sitting there with an emo self-vote.

You're protecting a scum-partner.

[Kublai Khan]

@Fate and Ellibereth:

Choose to vote for either chunkykev or xRECKONERx. Let's make a break for Day 2.

[Kublai Khan]

"Yes, choose to vote for a big wagon or a wagon that really only I support."

Dude, look at your iso.

You're either scum or this is your worst, most apathetic town performance. Either way, it's a net gain to town if you are lynched.

Your scramble flip-flop on chunkykev makes NO sense for town-xRECKONERx. You wanted him dead, but you don't want blood on your hands? That's fucking bullshit, xRECKONERx.

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai Khan, do you think you're reading too much into things, Kublai Khan?

xRECKONERx wanted D1 over a long time ago, Kublai Khan. D1 is still going on and we've basically gotten nowhere. Kublai Khan, don't you think a flip of some sort would be good and help us move the game along? xRECKONERx does, and that's why he wanted that dayvig to be real.

I agree. We need someone to flip to get some info. I'm actively campaigning to get players who I think are scummy to flip.

You are arguing against wagons, defending people, self-voting, and challenging people to 1v1s.

"Yay chunkykev is dead" = bussing

[Kublai Khan]

@DrippingGoofball:
♫ We don't need another hero...
We don't need a brand new wa-gon ♫

Pre-flip wagon scum-hunting is about a valid a science as preformationism. If you think that chunkykev is being bussed, then let's examine that theory more in depth on Day 2.

Zdenek, Sleepless Assassin, and Rhinox need to move their useless votes elsewhere.

Malthusis

and My Milked Eek need to be replaced and their replacements need to read-up and come to quick conclusions.

The fuck is this shit? BOTH town.

Look I was sucked into the same black hole you were, Scarlet Monastery Reck was scummy and useless as fuck AND HE WAS SOMEHOW TOWN

Apparently its a nulltell for him, but w/e, so I go by other people now.

Hindu scum is HARD defending Reck, he would NOT do that to a scumbuddy.

Ugh.. I've got the opposite problem. I'm not reading Hinduragi very well and I'd like to see the people he's interacting with flip.

[Kublai Khan]

Quick hits:

* I'd get behind a SpyreX lynch more if xRECKONERx wasn't pushing it so hard.

* Pine's vote for SocioPath was horrible and opportunistic.

* Conversely, SocioPath is being stupid and useless.

* Chunkykev continues to be the classic "I can talk my way out of anything"-newbscum.

* Grimmjow is scummy per his iso.

* If xRECKONERx is town, I really really really hate the fact that he's using this game to bolster his shitty-town meta.

[Kublai Khan]

* Pine's vote for SocioPath was horrible and opportunistic.

* Conversely, SocioPath is being stupid and useless.

These points do not work together. Either Socio is being stupid and useless, and is therefore reasonable to suspect, or my vote was

horrible and opportunistic

No. I demand you explain what is opportunistic about voting for someone that no one has expressed significant suspicion of, and what is horrible about voting for someone who has done something that I find to be scummy (and is in accordance with an opinion I have given in many games, both as Town and as scum. Jumping on replacements is scummy. Period.)

You've been borderline all game, KK. You can't just make statements like that and expect them to hold any weight unless you back them up.

Your vote on SocioPath is horrible and opportunistic because if the best case you have on SocioPath after 30+ pages of content is a quick gotcha-vote, then you're just skimming and looking for ground-floor opportunity. If you honestly thought that he was scummy, then you'd show your work by explaining how he's been manipulating town this whole time. Your thought process of "Ah-HA! He has a different Mafia Discussion theory than I do regarding replacements and scum's attitude towards them, therefore scum!" is beneath you if you were town.

SocioPath is being stupid and useless because his vote on Seraphim is stupid and useless. Seraphim isn't likely to be scum just because he replaced in. However, if his vote was an attempt to lure scum into voting him, then I stand corrected.

[Kublai Khan]

Chunkykev can talk his way out of anything because his answers are honest townie answers. Easy to explain anything when you are honest town.

Yeah, I used to have that "Come at me with your case! Let's wall and I'll prove you wrong!" attitude as scum. It's so painfully transparent now.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: It's not "after 34 pages". Sociopath has made 33 posts, most of which were one-liners. I've been having a hard time reading him, and this is the first thing I can recall that's really given me a strong impression in either direction. I honestly

don't

think he's been manipulating Town "this whole time" I think he's done his best to lay low and not really be noticed. Successfully, I might add.

And when he does post content, it's good townie content. And I don't think that SocioPath could go unnoticed if he tried.

Hush now, the adults are talking.

*snerk* Goddamn. I'm glad I wasn't eating or drinking anything when I read that.

I wasn't cheering his dayvig... I just wanted PROGRESS.

Someone who wants PROGRESS would be trying to push a better wagon. Not sitting there with an emo self-vote.

LOL? Not THIS bullshit again. Kev is ANNOYING. I would've cheered ANYONE's daykill on him, real or not, scum-incited or not.

You don't see the disconnect of xRECKONERx claiming he wanted PROGRESS while self-voting?

haha, I just saw where Sera replaced in, so I was going to look back over the last 32 pages to see what it must be like for that poor bastard and I noticed that Max said that scum can talk for one week from the date of the game starting.

32 fucking pages and it's only been a week. holy shit, they've been talking about us

this whole fucking time

of course some of you already realized this

kuribo is town.

Ugh.

Look, I'm of the opinion that kuribo is town. And I got that opinion because I've read his posts and interacted with him.

Declaring him town for noticing that day-talk ended is bullshit lazy-possibly scummy-play. How do you know that Max didn't end day-talking in the QT and kuribo isn't looking for brownie-townie points for mentioning it in-thread under the guise of "I just noticed"?

If you want to declare kuribo town, then do it because he reads town to you. Not because of a random observation.

That goes for anyone else who declared kuribo town for post 800 only.

I have null on chev. I think the person making the best point about the chev wagon is rhinox, beside that it's a lame wagon.I'm willing to policy lynch kuribo next time time he steps out of line. Shattered Viewpoint is in my definitive town list.

What the hell? Rhinox's main points against chunkykev have been to agree with me & Hinduragi. How is the wagon lame if you agree with the guy who agrees with the majority of the wagon?

And please explain in detail how Shattered Viewpoint is

definitively

town.

[Kublai Khan]

Give me a case.

1) Reck, please quit defending me. I can defend myself and I am wary of your buddying.

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: I'll defend who I damn well please, thanks.

Plus if Grimmjow was here and actually posting maybe he could actually defend himself.

UNUSUAL RULES

1. Any Player may prod Any Player. I consider a prod to be very vague, obviously don't say "COME AND HAMMER LOL" but "You haven't posted in a while, please do so " is acceptable. I think it's mostly common sense, if you're uncertain, give me a shout. *DON'T* tell them how to play, *DO* tell them to come and play.

This game has been going in circles for so long, I'm going to see how long I can just re-quote it back on itself.

[Kublai Khan]

Elvis and KK are still the scummiest to me.

Wait, WTF? Who are you? When did you join this game? Goddamn, you're so quiet you could sneak up on a meth addict.

So let get this straight. You think I'm scummy for something I said previous to post #109 and you've held your tongue for 35 pages before finally voting on it?

If you honestly thought that he was scummy, then you'd show your work by explaining how he's been manipulating town this whole time.

Watch as KK holds everyone to this standard when they vote.

Nice job taking my words out of context and twisting their meaning.

Here's the post for proper context. Summary:Pine went "Scumslip! Vote!". It was a shitty vote because it wasn't anything close to a scumslip.

[Kublai Khan]

Also, are we finally getting around to lynching xRECKONERx? I'm on board!

UNVOTE: chunkykev
VOTE: xRECKONERx

[Kublai Khan]

I do not support this product and/or service, as Reck is Town.

Lynch Spyrex instead, and when he flips scum we can have you all apologize to Reck.

Except DGB, she can flail a bit more before we lynch her next. It seems like the scummier quadrant of this thread are rallying to any wagon that isn't on them or one of their buddies. See the Grimmjow wagon, then the Reck wagon. Counterwagons ahoooooooy!

(PE: I'm not sold on KK being in the aforementioned scummier quadrant, I think he's just having an off-game, as I disagree with like 90% of his reads so far despite his thought processes looking Townie.)

Do me a favor then. Explain your xRECKONERx town-read.

Because both SpyreX and xRECKONERx have both been pretty useless. Neither seem to be playing to a town win con even if they actually have one. But of the two, xRECKONERx's actions (self-voting twice, actively de-railing Grimmjow voters, hypocrisy, etc..) have been scummier. SpyreX is just.. bleah.

So if SpyreX is the better lynch, then convince me.

[Kublai Khan]

Shattered Viewpoint is def town for the way he reacted to kuribo.

They've been interacting the whole game. Which specific reaction?

[Kublai Khan]

chunkykev has asked about a week long V/LA from the first, I am considering the appropriate action. Considering the day does not seem to be approaching end I think my first choice will be to replace. If anyone has an objection to this, let me know

@chunkykev - If you do get replaced you should publish your game notes.

[Kublai Khan]

Can't you see what I'm referring to? Really.
I mean the whole quotetag affair.

Now, do you think SV is scummy?

Huh. I read the whole quotetag affair as nullish at best, possibly scummy at worst. Plus there's the whole active lurking thing he's doing.

Shit, maybe Pine is right. maybe some of my reads are off. I want to re-read, but it feel premature and possibly time-wasting if I have to do it again after a few flips.

[Kublai Khan]

fos kublai

for tunnelling on other people's townread justifications. Boring.

We've got more people de-railing wagons then joining them. This is why we've been deadlocked as town.

This is such horse shit, you cheeky scumfuck nitpicking all sorts of NONSENSE. its fucking day one of a LARGE THEME show me if I've EVER gambited D1 in ANY game ANYWHERE assclown. Sure I've faked day guilities on obvscum in open setups with no day cops, but closed?

Hmm.. I've got a nagging feeling that this could be false. I'll check it out and report back later.

[Kublai Khan]

He is not unjustly targeted. He's been lurking in a way consistent with his scum meta.

and with his town meta

I really wish we could get some sincere pressure on some useless lurkers without people getting up in arms with "How dare you! That's his town-meta! You're unjustly targeting him/her!" responses.

[Kublai Khan]

My vote was elsewhere, but this is not the first time I've commented on you.

Yes, yeah. I got that. I already linked to post 109 which is the first (and only) time you mention that you think I'm scum before your recent vote.

Good job completely misrepping yourself.

I've look a handful of KK's past games and as town he's rational and fairly careful, and doesn't seem to make the same sort of crazy statements that he's making here.

Would you fucking spit out what the hell you're talking about? What crazy statements?

How am I misrepping myself by pointing out that you took my comments out of context and tried to make them look scummy?

[Kublai Khan]

majority of the scumteam is probably split between these three wagons

Can we lynch xRECKONERx now? How many more times does he have to prove he's not really scumhunting?

[Kublai Khan]

NY 132 for a game with KK as scum. Not sure if you have that to look at in your meta, or if it's relevant.

Give Mini 773 a read. Whether I'm a dick or not has zero to do with my role PM and everything to do with who I'm playing against.

[Kublai Khan]

I don't think SA is scum. It doesn't look like intentional lurking.

Gah. 5 pages to catch up on and just under an hour before work. Looks like I won't be finishing that reads post until Monday. That's a guaranteed "I'm working on this Monday. If I don't, feel free to hammer" Monday, not a "I'm gonna say Monday so come Tuesday maybe people will forget and I can say Thursday" Monday. Seriously, hold me to it.

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

[Kublai Khan]

Not scummy, but crazy. Couple that with the fact that you are clearly a rational and thoughtful player, you get scummy because there is no chance that you really believe the things you are saying.

So.. you don't know me. You've never met me. You've never play with/against me. You've not interacted with me anywhere that I can recall. You're also holding me to a meta you've gained from reading some number of select games.

But you know what a "really believe" more than I do?

For instance:

It's a psychological ploy. If you want people to ignore you, then you act really annoying and sarcastic.
...
If you honestly thought that he was scummy, then you'd show your work by explaining how he's been manipulating town this whole time.

There's also the use of the "unfocused scum-hunting" scum tell on CK.

I fully believe all those things. The onus is on you to disprove that. And not via some vague nonsense like "I've read your meta and you seem different from what I think you should be like".

I can almost guarantee you DGB meant intentional lurking as in lurking for scum-intentions.

Why are you voting him now? Because he didn't finish his reads post?

Lurking for scum-intentions? What does that even mean?

Yes. And my vote's staying on for now because he's been asked some really valid questions and I'm interested in the answers.

[Kublai Khan]

(sidenote: when the fuck did we get this smiley? )

Yesterday. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3545295

[Kublai Khan]

why haven't you asked anyone who has called someone else scum to explain how that person has been manipulating town the whole time?

Again, nice spin. Are you going to provide an example of me doing this as scum? Because meta seems to be the basis of your case.

I brought that up with Pine because Pine was engaging in "Gotcha!" scum-hunting. Which is bullshit scum-hunting. Especially when it's way past the RVS stage.

I'll ask for a detailed explanation on someone's voting reasons when I either have no clue or if I'm checking if they have townie logic. Now, I've asked you twice to explain why you think I'm scum, but you've dodged twice. You want to make it a trifecta?

how many times has the unfocused scum hunting scum tell worked for you in the past?

By itself, none. In conjunction with other tells, I don't know... 17? 18? Do you care about the answer, or are you just deflecting?

[Kublai Khan]

Vote: xRECKONERx

Going out for Hallowe'en. Try not to spam too much everyone.

[Kublai Khan]

two lynches?
WUT!?!??!

It's perfect considering so many people were shouting "1v1" yesterday. In fact, one person was shouting it more than any other.

[Kublai Khan]

My role has no name, but it does list my previous occupation. Our Leader is described as Courageous.

I'm a little torn on Pine. On one hand, scum-Pine wouldn't say something as stupid as this:

I think that's a big scumslip there. He's calling the cult leader "Great Leader" instead of "our Misled Leader". By flavor, he's still in the cult. BOOM, headshot.

On the other hand, town-Pine wouldn't lie:

I'm the Town manager. I have two one-shot abilities and am bulletproof until I use them. My flavor suggests that the Misled Leader was mismanaging the cult until I stepped in and fixed it. I can motivate once, and something else once. I'd rather not say what that is exactly, as it has significant pros and cons that I haven't fully evaluated yet.

Aha! I just figured out how to use my abilities correctly.

So... uh, yeah. Hoppster's #1224 is dead on. "I'm bulletproof until I sacrifice myself, so let's sacrifice me at LYLO" sounds like a horrible plan if the even that you are lying. Since we're going to have two flips after today, I think we would benefit more from a GLOBAL ROLEBLOCKED night so we can continue scum-hunting on Day 3. So I'm going to

STRONGLY ENCOURAGE

that Pine sacrifices himself today.

Everytime xRECKONERx starts to make a little sense (1171), he dips back into retardery (1235). chunkykev had the first game post of Day 2. There's no way that I'm going to accept that he "didn't realize" SocioPath was dead. It's a gambit for townie reads.

Hinduragi's #1236 looks like gibberish. And not just because of the lack of readable formatting. He needs to re-write that.

Someone explain the Rhinox case to me. I hope it's a lot better than his "I don't think Sleepless Assassin is scum but here's my vote" move.

UNVOTE: xRECKONERx
VOTE: chunkykev

Gonna read over Day 1 tomorrow and I'll generate some new reads on peoples.

[Kublai Khan]

UNVOTE: xRECKONERxVOTE: chunkykev

You know I'm not going to be here to defend myself as I'm going on holiday for a week today, yet you feel the need to put a vote on me. Why would you attack someone that can't defend themselves? You should know I am on holiday from today, and you had no way of knowing if I would be posting again. I just don't know if it's scummy or silly, but I do have major worries about you, Khan.

My vote will generally sit on whomever I find the most scummy unless we're anywhere near MYLO or LYLO.

You're scum because you are saying disingenuous things that I don't think you believe.

I don't need to go through and find examples of you doing that in other games to know that you are doing it here. It's scummy independently of your meta.

Ok, so you've decided to move the goalposts. First meta matters, now meta is irrelevant.

WTF is your deal? Are you an alt of someone I've played with and are coyishly trying to hide that fact?

Also, you still haven't ansewered about why you thought me scum prior to post 109. There's no third party, so you're not a lyncher. Why won't you answer my questions?

So "Gotcha" scum hunting is only acceptable in the RVS? You don't believe in scum slips?

Scum slips are a lot rarer than people given them credit for. The strong majority of people I've seen lynched for "scum slips" were town fuckups.

I'm a little torn on Pine. On one hand, scum-Pine wouldn't say something as stupid as this:

I think that's a big scumslip there. He's calling the cult leader "Great Leader" instead of "our Misled Leader". By flavor, he's still in the cult. BOOM, headshot.

Wait, how is that post by Pine not gotcha scum hunting? 'Cause it sure looks like it,

Because it's in the negative. "wouldn't" is a contraction of "would not". As in, "Scum-Pine would not say something as stupid as this" which implies that I do not believe it's a scum slip. Do I have to break everything down into monosyllabic words for you?

So I'm going to STRONGLY ENCOURAGE that Pine sacrifices himself today.

Why no vote?

Because he gets lynched if he's still alive on Day 3.

I'm really wary of you, Zdenek. This is the fourth time you've avoided my questions and you constantly try to steer the conversation away from every stupid accusation you've made that doesn't pan out. You quote me out of context to scummify me and overall you're cagey as all hell. Also, you lurked most of yesterday.

UNVOTE: chunkykev
VOTE: Zdenek

Call it OMGUS if you've got nothing else to accuse me with, but you're at the top of the charts right now.

[Kublai Khan]

UNVOTE: xRECKONERxVOTE: chunkykev

You know I'm not going to be here to defend myself as I'm going on holiday for a week today, yet you feel the need to put a vote on me. Why would you attack someone that can't defend themselves? You should know I am on holiday from today, and you had no way of knowing if I would be posting again. I just don't know if it's scummy or silly, but I do have major worries about you, Khan.

My vote will generally sit on whomever I find the most scummy unless we're anywhere near MYLO or LYLO.

You're scum because you are saying disingenuous things that I don't think you believe.

I don't need to go through and find examples of you doing that in other games to know that you are doing it here. It's scummy independently of your meta.

Ok, so you've decided to move the goalposts. First meta matters, now meta is irrelevant.

WTF is your deal? Are you an alt of someone I've played with and are coyishly trying to hide that fact?

Also, you still haven't ansewered about why you thought me scum prior to post 109. There's no third party, so you're not a lyncher. Why won't you answer my questions?

So "Gotcha" scum hunting is only acceptable in the RVS? You don't believe in scum slips?

Scum slips are a lot rarer than people given them credit for. The strong majority of people I've seen lynched for "scum slips" were town fuckups.

I'm a little torn on Pine. On one hand, scum-Pine wouldn't say something as stupid as this:

I think that's a big scumslip there. He's calling the cult leader "Great Leader" instead of "our Misled Leader". By flavor, he's still in the cult. BOOM, headshot.

Wait, how is that post by Pine not gotcha scum hunting? 'Cause it sure looks like it,

Because it's in the negative. "wouldn't" is a contraction of "would not". As in, "Scum-Pine would not say something as stupid as this" which implies that I do not believe it's a scum slip. Do I have to break everything down into monosyllabic words for you?

So I'm going to STRONGLY ENCOURAGE that Pine sacrifices himself today.

Why no vote?

Because he gets lynched if he's still alive on Day 3.

I'm really wary of you, Zdenek. This is the fourth time you've avoided my questions and you constantly try to steer the conversation away from every stupid accusation you've made that doesn't pan out. You quote me out of context to scummify me and overall you're cagey as all hell. Also, you lurked most of yesterday.

UNVOTE: chunkykev
VOTE: Zdenek

Call it OMGUS if you've got nothing else to accuse me with, but you're at the top of the charts right now.

[Kublai Khan]

@Rhinox : Are you willing to take Ellibereth's place?

[Kublai Khan]

Meta is relevant in the sense that these things coming from other people would be more forgivable. I've been around the site long enough to have read some of your posts, in MD for instance, and my impression is that you're a fairly rational person. The ideas that you're expressing in those posts doesn't agree with that impression.

I'm not an alt and I don't think we've played together before.

Okay. So first it was meta based on select previous games and now it's meta based on posts I've made in MD. Goalposts keep on movin'...

But I think I might see where you're coming from though. It reminds me why I created this poll a while back. Look at the responses. Most people I consider to be great logical people listed themselves as incredibly overrated at mafia. That's because Mafia isn't really a game of logic, not entirely. To me mafia is most similar to the game of poker. I do my best to be unreadable no matter what role PM I get. So I'm sorry I'm not living up to your expectations but making logical sense is not a town-tell for me.

I've explained the "psychological ploy" thing here (at the bottom). I can give you a more in depth explanation if you want.

My point was this: earlier you accuse Pine of being scum for engaging in "gotcha" scum hunting. Now, you write off a second instance of "gotcha" scum hunting, with scum pine would be dumb enough to say something like that.

No. You're (still) reading it wrong. I'm talking about the people pointing out that Pine said "Our Misled Leader" instead of "Our (positive attribute) Leader". That's not the sort of comment that scum-Pine would make.

[Kublai Khan]

UNVOTE: Zdenek
VOTE: xRECKONERx

[Kublai Khan]

I'm on board for a springlullaby wagon.

UNVOTE: xRECKONERx
VOTE: springlullaby

@xRECKONERx - Is Fate scum?

[Kublai Khan]

Possibly.

That's the best read you've got?

[Kublai Khan]

@DrippingGoofball - What caused Rhinox to jump from Scum to Not Leaning to Town?

[Kublai Khan]

@Pine: don't answer questions for other players.

[Kublai Khan]

Also, someone really needs to make a list of all claims that have occured thus far this game.

SpyreX claim:

I don't have a role name just a bunch of flavor. Odd nights I can cause someone's organs to fail with my drugs. Even nights I can give a player my drugs - I have no idea what they do.

Additionally I was motivated last night so I can give two sets of drugs out tonight.

I don't have any quotes or funny business. My "Ability" is Chemist.

@Spyrex - is there any town benefit to your claimed ability? Must you use your abilities each night? Would it not be much safer for town if you were dead so I think you sacrificing yourself to save Eli is something that should be seriously considered?

Is there any town benefit to killing people?

NOPE NO SIR.

As for the drugs considering I don't know what they do my answer is: shoehorns.

Note: to understand the "organs fall out" read the Day 2 opening flavor.

Pine:

I'm the Town manager. I have two one-shot abilities and am bulletproof until I use them. My flavor suggests that the Misled Leader was mismanaging the cult until I stepped in and fixed it. I can motivate once, and something else once. I'd rather not say what that is exactly, as it has significant pros and cons that I haven't fully evaluated yet.

Aha! I just figured out how to use my abilities correctly. Maybe game-breaking, too.

I have a passive ability (BP), a minor one-shot (motivate), and a major one-shot (sacrifice).

-Bulletproof keeps me alive until near-endgame
-Motivate was wasted, but I think it was mostly for role flavor
-Sacrifice. Hoo boy. As a

day action

, I can sacrifice myself. This DOES NOT END THE DAY, as it says can be taken back up until the hammer. My sacrifice would be a party that lasts until dawn...completely skipping the night phase. No scum kills, but no Town night actions either. Hence the major drawbacks I wasn't sure about.

HOWEVER, near endgame (when there's maybe six or seven people left), I can use my ability. Most of the time, there's damn few Town PRs by that time, because they've all been hunted down for small PR-slips. It would have much more impact against scum at that point.

The flavor is that as a former Baroness and the former manager of the cult, I know a few things about keeping people happy, and also a few things about throwing a party. My sacrifice would be a party that lasts until dawn. Can't elaborate more than that at peril of quoting it directly.

@Mod: I am choosing to sacrifice myself. Is this something you would be noting in Vote Counts or some other public way?

Oh hey, just noticed something else. The flavor also suggests that my former gardener was recruited into the original cult on the same day I was. They probably don't want to confirm that at risk of exposing themselves, but they'll know that that part of my story is true.

The manager part is that I was managing an estate in southern England when recruited to the original cult, and quickly became the Misled Leader's right hand and manager. The role name is "Town Manager".

Max got back to me and said that he wouldn't be acknowledging the sacrifice in public, as it would confirm me in a way that was not intended in the design.

Sacrifice retracted

Except I'm Bulletproof, which is what emboldened me to state my full claim and plan.

Why would you ask that question?

If I answer in the negative, scum go ahead with the green light to kill me. If I answer in the affirmative, scum don't have to contemplate that question in choosing whether or not to shoot at me, potentially causing me to fail to absorb a NK.

Then again, maybe I added the part about being bulletproof to screw with the scum.

Actually, this line of questioning is producing a level of ambiguity regarding my bulletproof status that I quite like. It might just result in scum trying and failing to roll a Will save to disbelieve, and us getting a free no-kill out of it.

Other happenings:

IN OTHER NEWS UNLESS YOU CLAIM SUPER SECRET MESSENGER IN YOUR NEXT POST IMMA ASSUME SCUM ARE FUCKING WITH ME

[Kublai Khan]

@Hinduragi - Where does "Fate was targetted with a scum ability (message)" fit in your SDC is being targeted theory?

@xRECKONERx - Where are you on your "One of the SDC is scum. Discuss." theory?

@Seraphim - WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU?

[Kublai Khan]

And how is it known its a scum ability?

Everyone has posted. Nobody claimed it.

[Kublai Khan]

@DrippingGoofball - What caused Rhinox to jump from Scum to Not Leaning to Town?

Confusion. I mistakenly recalled him as a town read. But in fact. Rhinox is scummy as stagnant water.

So what caused him to go from Scummy to Not Leaning to back the Scummy?

[Kublai Khan]

@Rhinox: I dunno.. Ellibereth has been unreadable (generally actively lurking and fluff-posting) and I think you're townier than he is.

Since we've got to come to a quick decision. I think everyone should weigh in on Rhinox v. Ellibereth then Rhinox should go with the masses' decision.

-----
Rhinox - 0
Ellibereth - 1 (Kublai Khan)

[Kublai Khan]

Someone tell me what Rhinox's role is, no time to look right now.

Read the effin' game, Katsuki. You too, Pine.

what with my VT claim and all,

I find it hilarious that people are still analysing a throwaway comment by reckk...almost fifteen hundred posts later

The comment bugged me since he said it. Is scum-xRECKONERx the type who would say "One of the SDC is scum" knowing that he was that scum-member? My gut says it's strongly possible.
----
Rhinox - 1 (kuribo)
Ellibereth - 3 (Kublai Khan, Pine, Hinduragi)

[Kublai Khan]

and how about you"read the effin game" and tell me how you got that I want rhinox's organs harvested when I explicitly said otherwise? Explain that, hooked on phonics

Oops. My bad.

Rhinox - 0 ()
Ellibereth - 5 (Kublai Khan, Pine, Hinduragi, kuribo, DrippingGoofball)

I'm seriously not even keeping up with this game FYI

If you're town, replace out.

[Kublai Khan]

Someone tell me what Rhinox's role is, no time to look right now.

Read the effin' game, Katsuki. You too, Pine.

Not gonna happen, more useful to explain to me what this "SWAPPING BIZNESS" is, since I couldn't find it first time round either.

Rhinox claimed after you joined the game, Katsuki. I can somewhat excuse not reading the parts of the game that happened before you joined, but you should be reading anything posted after you showed up.

Also, at the beginning of Day 2:

Hey, isn’t it interesting the town doesn’t have a hospital but an operating theatre in the town square?
Ah, I probably should have explained that earlier. Basically as a part of the creepy ritual that these guys have going on they require some organs, but they need to fail in a particular way (It isn’t a ritual if it isn’t really precise). So, they drug people and they usually die.
You could of course offer an alternative player to donate their organs. Even without medical equipment the years of weird religion has taught you guys that you can transplant organs easily. In theory…
Basically, if you don’t want

Ellibereth

to go dying because of the organ failure a player has to post “

I offer myself to the gods above

” then you swap organs and you’ll die at the end of the day instead of

Ellibereth

. Don’t ask how the medical side of this makes sense. Because I sure as hell don’t know!

Well, Ellibereth has definitely been drugged and his organs are going to fail very soon indeed. In game terms, before midday. From the observer's point of view...

(expired on 2011-11-07 14:29:43)

If someone sacrifices themselves to replace Ellibereth they will die from the post that quotes the above section (it must be bolded, the wording need not be exact)

[Kublai Khan]

I think it's a really nice compliment to Ellibereth the number of people who are willing to sacrifice themselves in his stead. The fact that nobody is following through must be incredibly confusing.

Ugh, this game is losing steam for me. Are we just waiting for the organ thing to happen before we lynch springlullaby for being scum? What happens if we just lynch springlullaby first? Does that cancel the organ thing?

[Kublai Khan]

Why has noone(or at least most of you) wagon'd Lowell, Grimmjow, Fate, Mal/Seraphim, Zdenek but is now on the Spring lynch?

Grimmjow's been replaced by Katsuki. And I wouldn't support a wagon on him right now.

Pretty sure Zdenek is town. Seraphim's has avoided saying anything controversial and I'm leaning scum. I don't think Lowell's been as useless as everyone says he is.

I'd have no problem jumping on a Fate bandwagon, but springlullaby is pinging harder for me right now.

[Kublai Khan]

WTF SpyreX? Drugs to scum-xRECKONERx? Are you effing crazy?

Your role is confirmed, but your judgement is crap.

[Kublai Khan]

And Pine? Pine is supposed to be dead. WTF is Pine still doing alive?

[Kublai Khan]

Hmm.. I forgot you didn't know what they did.

Do you dispense drugs every night? Do you what what tomorrow's drugs will bring?

Why does that sound like a Velvet Underground lyric?

[Kublai Khan]

Okay..

So Pine's motivation ability is confirmed as well as SpyreX's drug peddling.

@ Fate: I got a message, too. What does yours say?

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Hoppster

[Kublai Khan]

unvote

I wanna hear DrippingGoofball, Fate, & kuribo hash this out.

[Kublai Khan]

Claimed guilty and no claim = VT claim...

It's not like flavour is going to make the difference between town listening to me or Fate.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: Katuski

Your fake-dimwit act is wearing thin.

[Kublai Khan]

DrippingGoofball..

I really can't let me make a habit of self-voting and appealing to emotion to get out of lynches.

[Kublai Khan]

DrippingGoofball..

I really can't let

me

you

make a habit of self-voting and appealing to emotion to get out of lynches.

Fixed that for me. I just woke up..

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

[Kublai Khan]

OK them just lynch me.

I've breadcrumbed my results. Find them after I'm dead.

It's stuff like this, DrippingGoofball. You're near lynch so quit being vague and melodramatic.

P.Edit: what Pine said.

[Kublai Khan]

Do lynch Pine as the first opportunity after I'm gone.

Pine blindly motivated SpyreX.

Are they scum together?

[Kublai Khan]

80% of me actually believes Fate.

^ This is why you got my vote. Just stop being cryptic and roleclaim with results.

UNVOTE: DrippingGoodball
VOTE: xRECKONERx

The Zdenek vote is horrible. Plus, he's been scummy all game.

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

Your behavior is ridiculous. I'm not playing your games.

You're playing against a town win condition at this point.

[Kublai Khan]

Well we now know that Kublai Khan knows I am town, and is voting for me. He is playing against a town wincon.

No, I don't know if you're town. I suspect it, but all you're doing right now is jestering so it's a fucking null situation.

If Fate is scum, and I strongly suspect he is, then losing both of you two on this day is a gain for town no matter what.

[Kublai Khan]

Has DGB claimed anything not vague and reading-between linish

Nope. It's taking her

an eternity

.

Some analysis later tonight. Bank on it.

[Kublai Khan]

Kublai's lack of reaction and reck nonchalance is interesting

Kublai's lack of reaction is due to Kublai washing dishes after Mrs. Khan cooked some wonderful pasta.

DrippingGoofball should volunteer her organs if she truly believes Ellibereth to be town. But she won't. Because she's scum.

I've seen her do the martyrdom thing before and I've already linked to it twice (here & here) after she did it on Day 1. But then on Day 2, this game suddenly has a "sacrifice yourself" mechanic on Day 2 and DrippingGoofball is totally satisfied with her life and play in this game.

Day 3: DRUGS FROM SPYREX! DOUBLE VOTERS! No "hate this game" talk from DrippingGoofball. Risky.

Day 4: obv-scum Fate is being sacrificed. Knowing that she won't be asked to replace Fate as the victim, suddenly DrippingGoofball hates her life in the game again. She's relying on players like me & elvis_knits (& whoever else) to read it as a town ploy and defend her. It's bullshit.

She's scum. If she refuses to claim fully (with results), then she should sacrifice herself for Ellibereth. Right now her "I'm not telling dumb-town" is just an attempt to survive as an unconfirmable power role.

[Kublai Khan]

No, we're not lynching elvis_knits. She's town.

[Kublai Khan]

14 Alive, 8 to Lynch

Note: After Elli's next post it will be 13 alive, 7 to lynch

Oh and this, already a smaller number of players needed for today's mislynch.

In fact, if the scum hammers me now, they'll win the game outright.

Hey look. DrippingGoofball knows that Ellibereth is town.

Quelle surprise

...

[Kublai Khan]

Seriously SpyreX? You think DrippingGoofball's flailing shenanigans are sincere? You don't notice that the timing is disingenuous as fuck?

[Kublai Khan]

Yeah, but elvis_knits is not going to be the lynch today. Fate is the lynch because I strongly doubt he's going to return Ellibereth's favor. Ellibereth and Fate are unlikely to be scum partners so that means that Ellibereth is likely town. Since DrippingGoofball was the one who "80% believes Fate", then that means that DrippingGoofball needs to take Ellibereth's place. If she refuses, then she is as scummy as Fate.

It's that frigging simple.

[Kublai Khan]

Pay attention, SpyreX. DrippingGoofball confirmed Ellibereth as town.

P.EDIT - elvis_knits hasn't been on the site in 2 days. Quit pushing your weak-lurker case on her.
P.EDIT2 - Take Ellibereth's place then.

[Kublai Khan]

P.EDIT2 - Take Ellibereth's place then.

YOU do it.

But seriously, if you want to follow scum-Fate to a spectacular loss, I want to leave the planet. I'm not signing up to bang my head against a wall of idiocy. I certainly don't want to waste precious life-time arguing with Fate and Katsuki.

Just lynch me. And do it fast, don't waste my time.

Make it happen before I return from my shirt in 8 hours.

[Kublai Khan]

I'm apparently missing something key because if DGB flat out said her results for mysterious prizes and that MEANS ellibereth is town well we're in a conundrum writ large.

It's in her fear-mongering. She says there still will be 5-6 scum after Ellibereth is sacrificed. She's been calling him scum, but totally listed him town. She fucked up.

[Kublai Khan]

Fourteen players.

Elli makes minus 1.

Thirteen players.

We have 5-6 scum.

One mislynch, one town NK, we're only 11 players including as much as 5-6 scum... we'll be outscummed tomorrow if we keep playing like numbskulls.

NO PLAYER SHOULD SACRIFICE THEMSELVES FOR ANYONE - otherwise we'll just lose the numbers game.

^ This is where DrippingGoofball admits she got a Mafia Role PM.

[Kublai Khan]

DrippingGoofball is refusing to cooperate.

We can lynch Fate or her today. Either will be a scum lynch.

[Kublai Khan]

After Elli posts, I'll self-hammer to prove you wrong.

How does that help in the slightest? *If* you were town, you'd know that would cause the death of two townies. Instead, take Ellibereth's place so we can lynch Fate.

@SpyreX - I agree with your logic about why Ellibereth is prob-town, but DrippingGoofball didn't show that logic path. Her post was steam-of-conciousness. I wish I hadn't called her out on it right away because she would have gone right back to calling Ellibereth scum.

[Kublai Khan]

Skimming the last few pages I see that my name is coming up...

Why?

Can someone tell me what is going on because I don't have the brain cells left to read right now.

DrippingGoofball is pushing for your lynch because you apparently didn't react townie-ly enough to her antics.

The past few pages are really important so take the time to read them. There's no walls of text so it shouldn't take too much time.

[Kublai Khan]

UNVOTE: DrippingGoofball

Well, that changed things. Need to re-read and re-think.

@Mod: Why do I have an underscore in my name?

[Kublai Khan]

VOTE: xRECKONERx
He's still trying to hard to only save his own hide.

@DrippingGoofball - I accept that you're confirmed town despite all evidence that suggested otherwise, but you're changing your mind every two frigging posts. Stop freaking spamming the game.

@Zdenek - Stop rolefishing.

[Kublai Khan]

We're not lynching elvis_knits today. Or any day.

I thought it was damn obvious the way she breadcrumbed Day 1, but I'll just go ahead and state it for the "brilliant" townies in this game making lynch-lists without bothering to read the game.

elvis_knits & I are masons.

[Kublai Khan]

Hmmmm. Do we buy the mason claim when it's this late in the game and likely not to get tested? Can you point back to some of the breadcrumbs?

Well, not breadcrumbs per say. elvis_knits was dropping massive hints on Day 1 until I convinced her to keep a lower profile. I figured if we both stayed in the middle of the pack until later in the game we could blow it wide open. With 1 dead scum, DrippingGoofball mod-confirmed town, Fate very strongly confirmed town, SpyreX & Pine strongly guaranteed to be town, it's a perfect time to claim.

Really.

Ya really.

And sorry I tunnelled so hard on you. I thought I smelled blood in the water. Your reluctance to claim makes sense now.

I'm going to do some iso-hutning tomorrow, but right now I feel most strongly about xRECKONERx & chunkykev being scum. Two of {Seraphim, Katsuki, Lowell} are probable scum.

Guys, Grimmjow doesn't replace out of scum slots. Katsuki is town.

Oops, lie.

[Kublai Khan]

Huh? That's weird, I wrote a post and thought I posted it yesterday, but it's not there. Sorry about that.
---

Sorry for forcing you to claim for us, KK.

Don't worry about it. I know how busy you've been with real life. It works out in town's favor anyways.

PREDIT: Oops, not a lie. He was active as fuck in that game up until he AND I replaced out because of real life drama with dramonic, and neither of us wanted to be in the game with him at that point. Look at his other games -- town games, he gets behind/lurks/drops out. Scum games he's active. A lurking Grimm is a town Grimm, and a replaced Grimm due to activity is a confirmedtown Grimm.

This... is as a townie post. Of course, his later attack on Pine is totally un-townie which is why I've been so damn conflicted on him all game. Still, there's enough doubt on my part that I don't really want to lynch either xRECKONERx or Katsuki today.

UNVOTE: xRECKONERx

I'm pro-chunkykev lynch at this point.

VOTE: chunkykev

[Kublai Khan]

UNVOTE: chunkykev
VOTE: Seraphim

Just iso'd both to be sure. Seraphim is absolutely horrible and DrippingGoofball's lack of result does nothing to redeem him.

[Kublai Khan]

xRECKONERx vouched for Grimmjow.

Seraphim claimed jester-town. Join the Seraphim wagon.

[Kublai Khan]

Confirmed townies ≠ Accurate scum-hunting.

I'll wait for Seraphim to answer SpyreX before I figure out the next move.

[Kublai Khan]

xRECKONERx vouched for Grimmjow.

This may well turn out as scum vouching for scum.

It's possible. But it's rare for them to vouch so strongly in my experience. That's what gives me the doubt. If we've really got scum as cornered as we think, then it doesn't hurt to lynch the most doubt-less candidate.

You believe Seraphim's claim so readily?

[Kublai Khan]

Ok, fine. Lead us to the promised land, DrippingGoofball.

VOTE: Katsuki

[Kublai Khan]

No, he's at L-1.

Didn't like xRECKONERx's reaction, though. But I think I'm getting too deep in WIFOM.

@DrippingGoofball - What are the scumputer odds that xRECKONERx is using strong reverse psychology to get a Katsuki-town lynch?

[Kublai Khan]

@chunkykev - unvote please. We're at LYLO.

[Kublai Khan]

I suggest we massclaim today and see if anything stands out.

[Kublai Khan]

@Zdenek - You're here. Why don't you go first and we'll popcorn among the unclaimed from there.

[Kublai Khan]

The fuck is this quick night? Its confirmed there are no power roles or wtf?

Pine sacrificed himself at the end of the day so there was no night phase.

[Kublai Khan]

Setup review:

chunkykev - Vanilla Townie
DrippingGoofball - Tracker
elvis_knits - Mason
Fate - Vanilla Townie
Kublai Khan - Mason
Lowell - Vanilla Townie
Seraphim - town-jester ? {Lynch doesn't end day}
SpyreX - Pharmacist
xRECKONERx - I think he said Vanilla Townie, but I can't find it off-hand
Zdenek - Vanilla Townie

No surprise, nothing too fancy. Except Seraphim, who really stands out like a sore thumb.

I think we have to bite the bullet and test Seraphim's claim (should probably have done it yesterday, but whatever). If nothing else, it'll help out with PoE.

VOTE: Seraphim

@xRECKONERx - Please claim your role

[Kublai Khan]

SHOW ME THE NUMBERS PL0X
(course if hes scum it won't matter but)

Right now:
10 players
4 scum & 6 town

If Seraphim is telling truth, then
9 players
4 scum & 5 town

If Seraphim is lying (and is scum), then
9 players
3 scum & 6 town

If we mislynch a town players today (+ scum NK), then
8 players
4 scum & 4 town --- scum win

[Kublai Khan]

Despite the numbers?

[Kublai Khan]

THIS IS WHY I HESITATE

If we mislynch a town players today (+ scum NK), then
8 players
4 scum & 4 town --- scum win

Yeah, what Fate said.

The only way we lose if we lynch Seraphim is if he's town and lying. In which case, we break out the tar and feathers.

[Kublai Khan]

Just hammer, elvis_knits. It's obvious that Seraphim is scum.

[Kublai Khan]

Max will grab a replacement during the night and I'll get them up to speed.

[Kublai Khan]

Tar & feather time?

[Kublai Khan]

If DGB is scum, then Max is truly a bastard.

I think most of scum lies in the VTs, but I do agree with Reck that not all the confirmed town are probably as confirmed as we think. I can see the Fate/SV Messenger thing could have been a gambit, maybe, but they couldn't have faked the modkilling.

SpyreX's pharmacist thing could be a nasty scum role if the rest of the mafia is underpowered.