Secret Society Mafia - Game Over

[Dry-fit]

I would describe your playstyle this game as "isn't really looking for scum himself, trying to post just enough to avoid getting called out as a lurker, quietly follow onto mediocre bandwagons other people start."

Are you going to claim that's your town meta as well? Because it looks a lot like textbook scum-flying-under-the-radar play to me.

I can sense your disappointment that your weaksauce attack couldn't stick. Funny you accuse me of joining "mediocre" bandwagons when you joined the Iceguy wagon late. How'd that turn out?

Interesting. So you're not even going to try to respond to the issues I have with your play, and instead are going to try to turn it around on me, huh?

If you actually think that I'm scummy, then go ahead and make a case against me. But it doesn't really sound like you do; it sounds like the entire point of this post was just to try to undermine me, just your basic "I can't argue with the reasons this guy is giving so I'll just try to make him look bad" ad hom attack.

Pointing out that you wagoned town yesterday is not an ad hom attack. The case on me is that I look like scum trying to stay under the radar. I don't doubt that I do. That one sentence is literally the only point being brought against me. I guess I should try to drum up some more controversial positions next time.

I do find you slightly scummy Yos but you're not my top suspect at the moment.

I'm not seeing Dry-Fit as scum but, he and TheJakalope seems to have entered an heavy lurking mode. I think we should force a lynch on one of those two no matter what. Otherwise it sets a dangerous defense example for scum.

I was starting to think you were town too. Why would you waste a mislynch to send a message to scum? That's just counterproductive.

i don't think a lurker lynch is in the town's best interest when we have so much to use from day one. i'd focus on analyzing the text if i were you; much less WIFOM than lurker lynching me because of how little i posted.

You would think that wouldn't you.

[Yosarian2]

Pointing out that you wagoned town yesterday is not an ad hom attack.

It is if you're saying it only in order to undermine my attack against you. If you actually seemed interested in trying to find out my alignment, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

(shrug) I thought the wagon against Iceguy yesterday was ok. Wouldn't have been my first choice for a lynch, but it was at least a wagon that seemed like it might hit scum, seemed better then any likely alternative, and I joined it close to deadline when it didn't seem likely we were going to get any other wagon off the ground. Almost any lynch day 1 is better then a no-lynch.

The case on me is that I look like scum trying to stay under the radar. I don't doubt that I do. That one sentence is literally the only point being brought against me.

When someone is scum trying to stay under the radar, you really aren't going to be able to bring any other points against them, because they haven't really done anything.

I guess I should try to drum up some more controversial positions next time.

Yeah, that's a good idea. Next time you get a scum rule, I'd recommend faking some strong opinions, you'll probably survive longer that way.

Fixed quote tag.

[Wraith]

So after Toasty, we have Alabaska doing walls of the past. Great !

@PeregrineV

: What are your conclusions on the 'votecount' you did ? Do you see patterns or anything valuable ? If not, was it useful at all ?

I think we are heading in a wall right now. Neither Dry-Fit nor TheJakalope are defending themselves actively. For me it means that they are not town PR because those are most likely feeling the burden of responsibility (particularly for newer players), so it leaves us with them being scum or VT. Since we can't agree on one of them, I suggest switching all our votes on somebody else (like sorgster for example) at once. Remember that the day is dawning soon.

If one of these wagons flips scum I know where my vote will be next.

Your logic is silly. We have 10 people not on either of the leading wagons.

If it nears deadline and we're still in deadlock, we'll just make them choose one of the wagons.

With that being said, I would be willing to switch to sorgster if needed. I'd prefer Dry-Fit though.

Really don't like this post. Otolia's logic may be a little...meh, but I see where such an opinion would come from, and that's definitely not a reason to lynch him. And I, for one, am not going to be pressured onto a wagon I don't support (though I would support the Jak wagon if deadline came to deadline)

I also really don't like Dry-Fit's last post. He attacks:

-Yos: him having a scumread on Yos reeks of OMGUS. Yos is one of my stronger townreads and I don't think anyone really has a scumread on him
-Otolia: who has come under fire for his apathy and recently for other reasons
-Alabaska: under siege for extreme lurking and general scumminess

My sensors indicate intense deposits of self-preservation

[Ghostlin]

Wraith, the argument that Otolia's posted is more than a little meh. He posits that Dry Fit and Jak aren't town power roles mostly because they've not had a well constructed defense, so they must be VT's or scum. If we accept this premise and find either likely, it's a 50/50 that we hit scum. The next part of the argument makes my head 'splode--he says we should mob someone else for lynch when we have two well developed wagons Day 2.

So...the premise is saying equal split between VT/Scum, so let's leave them alone? The logic isn't just meh, it's from the depths of hell.

Dry-Fit's last post does seem like 'let's choose three people who are riding me and discredit them,' I can agree there.

[Empking's Alt]

-Yos: him having a scumread on Yos reeks of OMGUS. Yos is one of my stronger townreads and I don't think anyone really has a scumread on him

That seems really awful logic.

[TheJakalope]

Hmmm..

Unvote

VOTE: Alabaska J

[Magua]

Vote Count 2.8

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Dry-Fit (6): BBmolla, The Fonz, Yosarian2, David Xanatos, sorgster, Empking's Alt
TheJakalope (6): Global Warming, Ghostlin, StefanB, Otolia, DarthYoshi, Oversoul
Alabaska J (3): zMuffinMan, ToastyToast, TheJakalope
David Xanatos (2): Maxous, PeregrineV
BBmolla (2): Wraith, Dry-fit
sorgster (1): Bogre

Not voting (2): whispersilk, Alabaska J

Deadline is October 25th, at 11:00am EST.
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-10-25 11:00:00)

[Maxous]

Hmmm..

Unvote

VOTE: Alabaska J

Hmm, why are you voting Alabaska?

Dry-Fit wagon is still looking like a mislynch.
tbh it looks more like a lynch due to playstyle rather than anything scummy he has done. (a low-key playstyle)
In fact half of it seems to be he has'nt been acting

scummy enough

(along with not town enough).

Otalia -there is some free seats on the DX wagon if you want to join~
Because yeah, that is a scum-read that has been cemented during the course of the day period. (Hint: ISO his day 2 posts)

[Oversoul]

Got a preprod warning from mod. Sorry I really haven't been paying attention to this game :\ I will reread later but I have a lot of stuff to do today.

I saw something aimed toward me and I will address it

Stefan, why is it bad that I called two people possible teammates? People do it all the time with a singular scumteam I don't see the big deal that I did in a game with two scumteams?

I said that Sorg and Jak were probably scum because of their interaction. I don't like their play and I hate lurking (despite being a lurker in this game myself :\). I am trying to contribute to this game but with limited time and the state in my other games this one will take the back burner.

Sorry I have been such a terrible teammates guys. :c I really am trying

[DarthYoshi]

A quick hodgepodge of thoughts from me--

Emp's entry is entirely null to me right now. It usually takes me a little while to be able to read him anyways because of his brevity. About your townread on Alabaska, Emp, do you have experience with Alabaska that makes you think he was being genuine, or it really is nothing more than gut? Would also like to express surprise that only Ghostlin picked up on this particular read enough to ask you about it. Does the fact that two of your other townreads (TT and Muffin) are voting him affect how you created your reads?

@Muffin: I am reading. Your previous statement on Jak said you think he's town. However, you did NOT say why, and instead said why other people are suspecting him. You ARE leaving the door open to change your mind on him pretty damn easily. If this is a hard and fast read of yours, it feels manufactured. If it isn't, then why won't you just come otu and say so?

@Oversoul: Looks like we'll have to do this the hard way. What about their interaction says scum, especially before either of them have flipped yet? Point being, you're using associative scumhunting before it is at its most useful, which I honestly think is often a scumtell.

@Bogre: What exactly are you pinging about my D1 play again?

[DarthYoshi]

Dry-Fit wagon is still looking like a mislynch.

tbh it looks more like a lynch due to playstyle

rather than anything scummy he has done. (a low-key playstyle)
In fact half of it seems to be he has'nt been acting

scummy enough

(along with not town enough).

emphasis mine. Would you agree with the people who are saying the exact same thing about the Jak wagon, and why or why not?

[Empking's Alt]

Emp's entry is entirely null to me right now. It usually takes me a little while to be able to read him anyways because of his brevity. About your townread on Alabaska, Emp, do you have experience with Alabaska that makes you think he was being genuine, or it really is nothing more than gut?

I think I have experience (don't know the games but I'm pretty sure I have) but its essentially gut.

Would also like to express surprise that only Ghostlin picked up on this particular read enough to ask you about it. Does the fact that two of your other townreads (TT and Muffin) are voting him affect how you created your reads?

It didn't, no.

[Wraith]

@Ghost: I'm still very much turned off from an Otolia-lynch. The original fire got started because he came out and said "I really don't care about this game right now" which is really something I don't feel scum would do, ever. The fact that he continued to go "Meh, whatever. Seriously, I don't care right now" even as the fire grew helped him in my eyes. Scum try to avoid attention and fire at all costs, not throw wood on it.

[PeregrineV]

So after Toasty, we have Alabaska doing walls of the past. Great !

@PeregrineV

: What are your conclusions on the 'votecount' you did ? Do you see patterns or anything valuable ? If not, was it useful at all ?

I think we are heading in a wall right now. Neither Dry-Fit nor TheJakalope are defending themselves actively. For me it means that they are not town PR because those are most likely feeling the burden of responsibility (particularly for newer players), so it leaves us with them being scum or VT. Since we can't agree on one of them, I suggest switching all our votes on somebody else (like sorgster for example) at once. Remember that the day is dawning soon.

If one of these wagons flips scum I know where my vote will be next.

Your logic is silly. We have 10 people not on either of the leading wagons.

If it nears deadline and we're still in deadlock, we'll just make them choose one of the wagons.

With that being said, I would be willing to switch to sorgster if needed. I'd prefer Dry-Fit though.

What are your reads on the following:
TheJakalope
TheFonz
Yosarian2
David Xanatos

[Maxous]

@DarthYoshi: I agree that some people are wagoning Jakalope for his playstyle.
However I beleive Jakalope to be scum for seperate reasons, so I don't care.
You don't have to lynch scum with everyone providing the right reasoning.

That being said I am quite curious why he switched his vote to Alabaska.

[David Xanatos]

Come at me Maxous. You appear to be picking up the Mastin-ball in this game.

[Otolia]

@Ghost: I'm still very much turned off from an Otolia-lynch. The original fire got started because he came out and said "I really don't care about this game right now" which is really something I don't feel scum would do, ever. The fact that he continued to go "Meh, whatever. Seriously, I don't care right now" even as the fire grew helped him in my eyes. Scum try to avoid attention and fire at all costs, not throw wood on it.

Though you are right, it's totally unprovable. It's not an argument I used at any point and that's why my defense was town-oriented.

Otolia -there is some free seats on the DX wagon if you want to join.

If I thought the TheJakalope wagon was completely dead, I would have voted sorgster already. And though I'm more and more considering that as a last resort possibility, I'd like to avoid that. I think scum are stalling the game and will force a quick-lynch shortly before the deadline. This kind of quickvotes nullify the power of VCA or any vote-based analysis.

[The Fonz]

Dry-Fit wagon is still looking like a mislynch.

tbh it looks more like a lynch due to playstyle

rather than anything scummy he has done. (a low-key playstyle)
In fact half of it seems to be he has'nt been acting

scummy enough

(along with not town enough).

This is exactly my problem. All the things that DF is claiming are his playstyle are strong scumtells in my book. He admitted himself to asking questions and not following up. Asking questions but not following up is the result of one particular motive: to appear active without actually scumhunting. He listed pretty much all the common suspects as his suspects: town players will generally agree with a couple of the top suspects, and be unsure on others. It's very unusual for a human being with an actual personality just to be an echo chamber for the consensus like that. Pretty much every game I've ever played as town, I've either hated at least one of the major wagons, or had a suspect no-one agreed with.

Even then, it's not so much scumtells as lack of any evidence of protown motivation whatsoever.

[sorgster]

This is my first game with multiple scums and I lurk because it would be easiest for scum to be active and keep killing each other leaving for an easy town victory.

[The Fonz]

I'm going to go offline before my head explodes from the amount of stupid in the previous post.

[Maxous]

Come at me Maxous. You appear to be picking up the Mastin-ball in this game.

-__-
It's not like I get a kick out of trying to lynch you.
You're forcing my hand.

This is my first game with multiple scums and I lurk because it would be easiest for scum to be active and keep killing each other leaving for an easy town victory.

Yeah....let me know how that works out for you.

[sorgster]

Also, there are probably some people here who are only looking for one scumteam instead of two. There is a reason for that.

[Wraith]

Also, there are probably some people here who are only looking for one scumteam instead of two. There is a reason for that.

Personally I don't care which scumteam is which until I get a damn scumflip. So I'm just looking for "scum"

[Oversoul]

Darth Yoshi, I'm trying to not make it hard on everyone and I know it is pissing some people off. Anyway, my whole theory is that Jakalope and Sorgster have not from my looking over their ISOs addressed each other once and Sorgster just chooses to vote for DryFit when there is an equal wagon for Jakalope without any prior indication of suspiciousness for both of them. That is my reasoning. They are playing similar to each other and then vote in succession without much reasoning. I don't like it.

Sorgster, that is a logical fallacy, town are looking for scum. Scum are going to read as scum. It doesn't matter if there are two teams or a bunch of people on one team... basically the same thing... only difference is that there is fake towniness for the scumteams because they can actually scumhunt instead of faking contributions.

[Ghostlin]

This is my first game with multiple scums and I lurk because it would be easiest for scum to be active and keep killing each other leaving for an easy town victory.

Also, there are probably some people here who are only looking for one scumteam instead of two. There is a reason for that.

#768:

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN

#771: ....And that reason is because they're scum? What does this have to do with scum hunting? What does this have to do with

anything

?

Two scum teams is not a revelation from heaven when it's pretty much spelled out in the setup. I don't really give a care until my protown condition has been fulfilled, which means red flips. Whether it's scum team A, or scum team B, it doesn't matter.