The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[Magister Ludi]

Good news is Magna doesn't die now, apparently. Of course, I have no way of knowing whether that was true in the first place, heh. I don't like getting 'critical' information from only one source and in no way that I can confirm.

SpyreX, who should we shoot this night with our two shots?

[mockingjaye]

Vote: Smarg

Hopefully MoI being deactivated means he won't suicide.

[Magister Ludi]

Ok, since no one is commenting, I'll take charge here. Feysal, I would like you to shoot Dekes. Confirm you have read this and that that is where your shot is going.

[SpyreX]

Shooting Empking, Andrius, Dekes, Will-o-wisp are not bad ideas.

However this is all contingent on MoI not dying and you actually being a vig and this not being chicanery.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So here is my catchup that Halloween and Trick or Treat duties derailed yesterday –

UNVOTE: Sun and Moon
VOTE: Smargaret

Here is my pre-emptive "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" that I can use Post-game.

If as I expect I die tonight and the ‘more useful Vig Miller’ Sun and Moon lives those of you who are Town and still alive better not fucking just write it off. No bullshit “We don’t analyze Nightkills” crap.

Shots should go to Kayne, Dekes, Empking, Herod and Sun and Moon (but of course no-one is going to back me on this until I’m dead).

--

You were the one saying not to reveal positive boons (good word choce Mina) but to reveal the timing of negative ones. THEN WHY did you reveal the EXACT TIME AND ROUND when you got your abilities?
The information only helps AGM.

I specifically stated not to reveal positive boons because there is no reason to say “Hey, I’m a Cop” without any results.

I had a result. In my judgement it was important to provide the back-up facts to explain why I didn’t have a clear from Night 1. If you think that helped AGM too much my apologies but I made the choice I believed was best for Town.

--

I just thought of something, and I feel stupid for not considering it earlier.
How often does a mafia mason claim to their mason partner that they are also a vig?
I would guess that this has never happened in any previous game.
It would limit their options too much. A PR claims? Can't tell your partner that you're going to kill it; so your team will be forced to either not kill that PR (yet), or pretend you tried to kill the person you agreed on and it failed, which should damage your credibility enough to make the whole gambit backfire.
So I don't see Sunandmoon as a mafia member with Magister as a townie. That doesn't rule out other possibilities, but it was previously what I saw as the most likely Sun-scum scenario.

Look, another wall of uselessness. Lots of talk that basically says "Magister and Sun and Moon aren't scum together". Duh.

‘I can’t find evidence of something, so it couldn’t have happened!” – I’ve discussed the reasons why Sun and Moon, as scum, would fake-claim Vig and Miller to his Neighbor before. That you refuse to even consider it happening is suspect.

It is alignment indicative.
The fact that it could be any alignment doesn't mean it isn't more likely to be a particular alignment, and the target selection that one chooses with their action will be based on their alignment.
I think the ability is more likely to be given to a townie, but the choice of Gandalf doesn't seem protown given that Gandalf probably had no role at the time.

Linguistic gymnastics noted. Alignment indicative means just that – indicative of a certain alignment (Innocent Child / Mason are examples).

I can provide you endless examples of Scum Neighborizors. So I have no idea how you came to your “more likely to be given to a townie’ statement.

This whole paragraph can be boiled down to say the following –

“It could be either alignment. Judge by actions. I think it was given to Town but the action doesn’t say this”.

IIoA. Not definitive position taken.

--

To put it another way; If MoI hadn't claimed a guilty on S&M today would you still be voting for them?

If the answer is yes I have no issue with you still voting them

, if the answer is no, then you should really be voting for that other person instead.

Really? In regards to the bolded I’ve been calling them scum for before today you seem to have had a very large problem with it.

--

Why would Rain be a neighborizer?

Horrible post. Outguessing the Mod is scumtastic.

Why didn't SunandMoon's shot on espeonage night two work damn it.

Oh, look, you are finally asking one of the big questions. I’ll provide you with the three possible reasons.

1. Someone protected Esp / Smarg / is lying and is bulletproof. Since we’ve had two Town protective roles flip this would mean it would be likely a scum Doctor.
2. Someone role-blocked Sun and Moon.
3. Sun and Moon is lying about being a Vig and the Mafia decided to use their kill elsewhere since Sun and Moon have a Derp Neighbor.

Once Smarg flips we can proceed to rule out any unlikely scenarios.

[Magister Ludi]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think I can be confident about a Dekes shot by Feysal, then. I will talk to Amrun about vigging between will-o-wisp, kanye, empking, Ellibereth, and mockingjay.

Vote: smargaret

[Magister Ludi]

1. Someone protected Esp / Smarg / is lying and is bulletproof. Since we’ve had two Town protective roles flip this would mean it would be likely a scum Doctor.
2. Someone role-blocked Sun and Moon.
3. Sun and Moon is lying about being a Vig and the Mafia decided to use their kill elsewhere since Sun and Moon

have a Derp Neighbor.

Where did you get neighbor from?

Why would someone roleblock sun and moon. Most likely, I think a doctor protect was in play.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, never mind. You've been saying 'neighbors' the whole day here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why would someone roleblock sun and moon. Most likely, I think a doctor protect was in play.

So you want to rule out 2 (I agree, I think it is the least likely scenario). That leaves 1 and 3.

If Smarg flips Town 1 goes out the window.

Are there any other scenarios you think I missed? Just want to be clear.

[Magister Ludi]

No, I agree those are the most feasible scenarios from an observers point of view. The seraphs could have been involved somehow, but if they were it is unknowable how.

[MagnaofIllusion]

No, I agree those are the most feasible scenarios from an observers point of view. The seraphs could have been involved somehow, but if they were it is unknowable how.

No, they couldn't, at least directly. Faraday and Mina have confirmed that the Seraphs CANNOT act at Night. So no Seraph driven Protect / Block / other can happen.

[Magister Ludi]

Ok. How did they activate your latent power then? Was it at the end of day two, or beginning of day three?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok. How did they activate your latent power then? Was it at the end of day two, or beginning of day three?

As stated it was right before Night Day 2.

But that should be clear given the Seraphs have confirmed it happened when I stated and my investigation happened Night 2.

Was this a 'tarp' ML?

[Magister Ludi]

You activated my ! heh


No. I just wanted confirmation of whether it was unlocked before receiving a guilty, or after. It would mean that somehow evil-AGM knew you were a cop, which bears speculation in and of itself.

[Feysal]

Ok, since no one is commenting, I'll take charge here. Feysal, I would like you to shoot Dekes. Confirm you have read this and that that is where your shot is going.

Confirmed. Dekes it is then. This may give the scum opportunity to interfere, but that is something better discussed once we see the results. And knowing where my attack goes should help Amrun in deciding hers.

smargaret has more than enough votes to lynch, but I'm putting my vote back anyway for good measure.

Vote: smargaret

[Dekes]

For what it's worth, killing me means killing town.

If it makes you sleep better at night, through your PoE or because you want to spare Plum from the hassle of looking for a replacement any further, go ahead.

I'd just want to point out that reasons brought up against me surrounding my apparent Pere wagon hop and MoI read (or rather lack thereof) are pure bull crap.
Unfortunately, I'm not the scum out of the contentless posters. I'd aim within WoW, SpyreX and Empking. Or, if you're unsure, Furc, cause I'd hate to see a lynch getting wasted on that down the line.

This is not me getting back into this game, because I won't have proper internet for another couple of weeks and I'm not doing something word heavy as forum mafia via my blackberry.

This is me trying to give my replacement a fair chance. Or, if Feysal's still going through with the plan, this is me giving my final scum reads.

[Herodotus]

If as I expect I die tonight and the ‘more useful Vig Miller’ Sun and Moon lives those of you who are Town and still alive better not fucking just write it off. No bullshit “We don’t analyze Nightkills” crap.

According to you, you're a modified cop. If they kill you, you want us to assume that isn't the reason?

Look, another wall of uselessness. Lots of talk that basically says "Magister and Sun and Moon aren't scum together". Duh.

That's not what it says at all.

‘I can’t find evidence of something, so it couldn’t have happened!”

I didn't say that at all.

– I’ve discussed the reasons why Sun and Moon, as scum, would fake-claim Vig and Miller to his Neighbor before.

For whatever reason they feel free to claim killing Power as a means to ‘build trust’ with you.

Is this it? I'm unimpressed.

That you refuse to even consider it happening is suspect.

The post you quoted was entirely about considering it.

It is alignment indicative.
The fact that it could be any alignment doesn't mean it isn't more likely to be a particular alignment, and the target selection that one chooses with their action will be based on their alignment.
I think the ability is more likely to be given to a townie, but the choice of Gandalf doesn't seem protown given that Gandalf probably had no role at the time.

Linguistic gymnastics noted. Alignment indicative means just that – indicative of a certain alignment (Innocent Child / Mason are examples).

There's a difference between "indicative" and "confirmed". But are you even considering what you're arguing about here? Your point was that people shouldn't unvote smargaret because of her claim, and I obviously agreed.

I can provide you endless examples of Scum Neighborizors. So I have no idea how you came to your “more likely to be given to a townie’ statement.

I don't think you know what the word endless means... but this is a simple mathematical issue. If there have been 100 mafia neighbourizers and 1000 town neighbourizers, that means that the ability is more likely to be given to a townie. If there have been an equal number of each, etc.

This whole paragraph can be boiled down to say the following –

“It could be either alignment. Judge by actions. I think it

was given to Town

would be more likely given to Town

but the action doesn’t say this”.

IIoA. Not definitive position taken.

I'm voting smargaret, which indicates my position clearly.
You just quoted me analyzing Sunandmoon's decision to claim vig to Magister Ludi on Night 1, and its implications for their alignments, and then smargaret's claim of her ability and what Espeonage did it, and its implications for their alignment, so your IIoA accusation

I

S

.

A

.

L

I

E

.

To put it another way; If MoI hadn't claimed a guilty on S&M today would you still be voting for them?

If the answer is yes I have no issue with you still voting them

, if the answer is no, then you should really be voting for that other person instead.

Really? In regards to the bolded I’ve been calling them scum for before today you seem to have had a very large problem with it.

I don't think you understand Gut's question. If Sunandmoon had spontaneously claimed Day 2, what would you think of them?

Why would Rain be a neighborizer?

Horrible post. Outguessing the Mod is scumtastic.

Unreliable, maybe, but scumtastic? Who was it who speculated on Feysal's win condition?

Dollars to donuts it is “Have Feysal kill Thurin (or whatever the main person’s name is)” if Furc isn’t bullshitting.

Why didn't SunandMoon's shot on espeonage night two work damn it.

Oh, look, you are finally asking one of the big questions. I’ll provide you with the three possible reasons.

1. Someone protected Esp / Smarg / is lying and is bulletproof. Since we’ve had two Town protective roles flip this would mean it would be likely a scum Doctor.
2. Someone role-blocked Sun and Moon.
3. Sun and Moon is lying about being a Vig and the Mafia decided to use their kill elsewhere since Sun and Moon have a Derp Neighbor.

Once Smarg flips we can proceed to rule out any unlikely scenarios.

Role speculation is riskier than flavour speculation.

But both (1) and (3) inherently point to smargaret being scum.

[Andrius]

Ok well the Seraphs are quiet.
For the most part.
Nothing from AGM for a long time.

IF ANYONE SHOOTS MJAYE I WILL BE SRS DISAPPOINT

[Plum]

VOTE COUNT #3.10

Sun and Moon - 4 - Empking, Ellibereth, Andrius, SpyreX
Empking - 1 - Will-o-wisp
smargaret -

9

- Herodotus, kanyeknowsbest, Mastermind of Sin, Sun and Moon, Furcolow, Gut, Magister Ludi, mockingjaye, MagnaofIllusion
MagnaofIllusion - 1 - smargaret

Not Voting (2): Dekes, Feysal

With 17 alive it will take 9 votes just lynched smargaret. Lynch scene to follow shortly.

[Plum]

And even as he steadied himself in a fork of its boughs, the midmost parts of the Dragon came above him, and swayed down with their weight almost upon his head, ere Glaurung could heave them up. Pale and wrinkled was their underside, and all dank with a grey slime, to which clung all manner of dripping filth; and it stank of death. Then Turambar drew the Black Sword of Beleg and stabbed upwards with all the might of his arm, and of his hate, and the deadly blade, long and greedy, went into the belly even to its hilts.

Then Glaurung, feeling his death-pang, gave forth a scream, whereat all the woods were shaken, and the watchers at Nen Girith were aghast. Turambar reeled as from a blow, and slipped down, and his sword was torn from his grasp, and clave to the belly of the Dragon. For Glaurung in a great spasm bent up all his shuddering bulk and hurled it over the ravine, and there upon the further shore he writhed, screaming, lashing and coiling himself in his agony, until he had broken a great space all about him, and lay there at last in a smoke and a ruin, and was still.

Now Turambar clung to the roots of the tree, stunned and well-nigh overcome. But he strove against himself and drove himself on, and half sliding and half climbing he came down to the river, and dared again the perilous crossing, crawling now on hands and feet, clinging, blinded with spray, until he came over at last, and climbed wearily up the cleft by which they had descended. Thus he came at length to the place of the dying Dragon, and he looked on his stricken enemy without pity, and was glad.

There now Glaurung lay, with jaws agape; but all his fires were burned out, and his evil eyes were closed. He was stretched out in his length, and had rolled upon one side, and the hilts of Gurthang stood in his belly. Then the heart of Turambar rose high within him, and though the Dragon still breathed he would recover his sword, which if he prized it before was now worth to him all the treasure of Nargothrond. True proved the words spoken at its forging that nothing, great or small, should live that once it had bitten.

Therefore going up to his foe he set foot upon his belly, and seizing the hilts of Gurthang he put forth his strength to withdraw it. And he cried in mockery of Glaurung's words at Nargothrond: 'Hail, Worm of Morgoth! Well met again! Die now and the darkness have you! Thus is túrin son of Húrin avenged.' Then he wrenched out the sword, and even as he did so a spout of black blood followed it, and fell upon his hand, and his flesh was burned by the venom, so that he cried aloud at the pain. Thereat Glaurung stirred and opened his baleful eyes and looked upon Turambar with such malice that it seemed to him that he was smitten by an arrow; and for that and for the anguish of his hand he fell in a swoon, and lay as one dead beside the Dragon, and his sword was beneath him.

The Children of Húrin (337-239)

You may kill your enemies, but never your nightmares.

smargaret, Glaurung, Mafia Oneshot-Bulletproof Mindscrewing Modified Recruiter lynched Day 3

Night starts now and will last 48 hours or more and will be no sooner than 24 hours after any and all needed replacement(s) are found.

[Plum]

Regfan replaces Dekes! NIGHT ENDS IN 24 HOURS!

[Plum]

Then Túrin looked at them strangely, and said: 'Are there any left who will suffer me to darken their doors? But, friends, I still have a grievous errand: to find Finduilas, daughter of Orordreth of Nargothrond, or at least to learn news of her. Alas! Many weeks is it since she was taken from Nargothrond, b aut still I must go seeking.'

Then they looked on him with pity, and Dorlas said: 'Seek no more. For an Orc-host came up from Nargothrond towards the Crossings of Teiglin, and we had long warning of it: it marched very slow, because of the number of capties that were led. Then we thought to deal our small stroke in the war, and we ambushed the Orcs with all the bowmen we could muster, and hoped to save some of the prisoners. But alas! as soon as they were assailed, the foul Orcs slew first the women among heir captives; and the daughter of Orordreth they fastened to a tree with a spear.'

Túrin stood as one mortally stricken. 'How do you know this?' he said.

'Because she spoke to me, before she died,' said Dorlas. 'She looked upon us as though seeking one whom she had expected, and she said: "Mormegil. Tell the Mormegil that Finduilas is here." She said no more. But because of her latest words we laid her where she died. She lies in a mound beside Teiglin. Yes, it is a month now ago.'

'Bring me there,' said Túrin; and they led him to a hillock by the Crossings of Teiglin. There he laid himself down, and a darkness fell on him, so that they thought he was dead.

The Children of Húrin (194-195)

Sorry, Túrin, but your princess

is in another castle

HAS BEEN BRUTALLY MURDERED.

SpyreX, Finduilas, Town Vanilla, Slain cruelly and Tormented and killed Night 3

'Not first will I die here!' he cried. And he seized Brodda, and with the strength of his great anguish and wrath he lifted him on high and shook him, as if he were a dog. 'Morwen of the thrall-folk, did you say? You son of dastards, thief, slave of slaves!' Thereupon he flung Brodda head foremost across his own table, full in the face of an Easterling that rose to assail Túrin. In that fall Brodda's neck was broken; and Túrin leapt after his cast and slew three more that cowered there, for they were caught weaponless. The Easterlings that sat there would have come against v, but many others were gathered there whop were of the elder people of Dor-lómin: long had they been tame servants, but now they rose with shouts of rebellion. Soon there was great fighting in the hall, and though the thralls had nothing but meat-knives and such things as they could snatch up against daggers and swords, many were quickly slain on either hand before Túrin leapt down among them and slew the last of the Easterlings that remained in the hall.

Then he rested, leaning against a pillar, and the fire of his rage was in ashes. But old Sador crept up to him and clutched him about the knees, for he was wounded to the death. 'Thrice seven years and more, it was long to wait for this hour,' he said. 'But now go, go, lord! Go, and do not come back, unless it is with greater strength. They will rise the land against you. Many have run from the hall. Go, or you will end here. Farewell!' Then he slipped down and died.

The Children of Húrin 188-189

And all your childhood friends (and innocence) fled down into darkness . . .

Will-o-wisp-Sador, Town Bodyguard slain cruelly Night 3

With 14 alive it will take 8 votes to lynch. Deadline will be in approximately 14 days.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok, time for the 'vig' and Feysal to discuss this kills for the Night ....

[Regfan]

I don't know whether to be happy or sad that I didn't die during the night. The biggest reason I joined this game was to fill a slot I thought was destined to be dead by morning. I've read glimpses of the game so far, about the last 4-5 pages of yesterday, reading into Feysals claim and ISO and doing a search for a specific word but other than that I'm nowhere near up to date and will make catching up my utmost priority.

Is there anyone or anything in particular I should be focusing on during my read through.

[Andrius]

Honestly I expected Feysal to shoot S&M, as that would have won him a win [?] since S&M's nameconfirmed Turin and he needs Turin dead to win.
This of course I assumed fell under the "kill your targets and leave the game" deal which may or may not be true.

Seraphs have been silent all night phase.

On the 2nd AGM and Faraday bickered over which team had the worse player, Espeonage or Chrono. Mina cried over "Modified Cult Recruiter". Faraday made fun of me and I tried to bring it all together andf sing KUMBAYA. But its just been me since the second and rustling leaves.

FEYSAL: WHO YOU SHOOT BRO?

S&M: WHO YOU SHOOT?

Glad to see Magna still with us.