Animal Rescue: petsPick (Game Over!)

[VP Baltar]

vote: Kublai Khan

He invited me to this game, and it's only polite in outer mongolia to kill your host.

So, basically whoever controls Roxi is getting a second hidden vote it would seem.

[VP Baltar]

Are you one of those players that acts like they can read people from a single post? I really find that tiresome. More specifically:

Sotty7, townish

what are you basing that one on exactly?

[VP Baltar]

I doubt it. Roxi doesn't appear to be in the voteable list. Feel free to try though.

[VP Baltar]

unvote, vote: quilford

no prob. wouldn't want to rush your response about a single post.

[VP Baltar]

ooo, pretty colors

[VP Baltar]

ooo, pretty colors

So.... You, Quilford, & Llamarble are scum?

Good bussing, bro.

^5

[VP Baltar]

You're really that gullible, Sotty? since when? Xvart explains it exactly as it is. I don't care about Quilford having a town read on you. The problem is that there was absolutely nothing there to declare a town read based upon. It is a scummy tactic because it's not a legitimate read (he claims they are not random after all!). It's one thing to call someone scummy early game over something minor as a way to get the ball rolling, and it's something entirely different to buddy someone by calling them town over nothing...which apparently worked on you.

While I can understand the premise of the lewarcher wagon, that certainly shot up fast. I at least suggest we don't throw anyone to L-1 quickly while Roxi is waiting in the wings. If scum control that animal, we need to watch out for quick hammers.

[VP Baltar]

From what I have seen of Quliford he does this kinda thing, it's a null tell. But you were all over it like it was a massive thing. I don't see it. I think you blew it up.

I blew it up like a massive thing because I questioned him on it and voted him when he didn't answer? Also, I've never played with Quilford that I recall (though I admittedly have a bad memory for that kind of thing), so I'm just gonna calls em like I sees em. Didn't look null to me. Looked like buddying. Only scum are gonna have town reads at that point in the game because they know who the town is.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, if buddying was taking place there it was quilscum/Sottytown.

My point is that it's impossible to get a town read out of "vote:jason". I don't really care if Quilford is quick to make reads and that's his meta. I don't honestly believe anyone could get a town read out of something like that. I'm not criticizing him having scummy or town vibes from posts where there is actually something to interpret, but no one could get town vibes from a contentless RVS vote. Conversely, scum can easily get a town read from that because they know if you're town or not.

[VP Baltar]

Well, I'm operating under the premise that whoever has Roxie can vote in secret since no one has fessed up to having that pet. If it's a public vote, then clearly what I said is moot. If no one comes forward to claim Roxie, then I think it's worth being cautious around.

[VP Baltar]

Oh man... VPB tries to goad Sotty into this with a sort of insulting challenge, then just goes on to say 'xvart was right' and regurgitate information.

So you're suggesting I was implying something other than what xvart said when I went after Quilford well before him? Do tell.

[VP Baltar]

Also, what information did I regurgitate exactly?

[VP Baltar]

@Ghostlin - it's not passive. I'm saying whoever has Roxie should claim. I see no legit reason to keep that hidden since we all know that second vote is there. If scum have it in their possession and can vote secretly, then that is a major concern of mine.

@Reck - So you point is that I voted Quilford without any reasoning and then hoped someone like xvart would come along to explain it for me? What about the post where I questioned him was unclear to you, particularly when I specifically mentioned his Sotty reasoning?

[VP Baltar]

@Reck - So you point is that I voted Quilford without any reasoning and then hoped someone like xvart would come along to explain it for me? What about the post where I questioned him was unclear to you, particularly when I specifically mentioned his Sotty reasoning?

It just felt, to me, like that post was sort of fluffy, then xvart came along and presented you with reasons you could actually latch onto, and so you did.

Feels to me like you're the one with fluffy reasons here. My post was pretty clear and a concise version of what xvart said, whether you choose to agree with it or not. I also think you're 'goading Sotty' and 'Kk is terrible' comments were pretty weak sauce as well. You seem eager to pick fights without a lot of substance to what you're saying.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not saying I didn't give you a jab there. I'm saying Reck acting like me stirring things up early game is scummy is malarky. He's making broad swipes like 'goading sotty into this'. Well, what is this? Why is me getting a reaction out of sotty a bad thing to do? That's my point.

[VP Baltar]

Have I played with you before CES?

[VP Baltar]

You're like this all the time?

[VP Baltar]

lew, why did you partially claim your info? What did you gain by keeping the vig part of the claim close to your chest at that time?

[VP Baltar]

lew, why did you partially claim your info? What did you gain by keeping the vig part of the claim close to your chest at that time?

Good question: in order to prevent people from thinking that I want to prove my role by killing someone, the only acceptable pro-town plan I can propose with a full claim involves self sacrifice, which is what I have proposed once I was forced to fullclaim.

So if you had not been forced to full claim, what was your plan exactly? Say you got the role info that glowball was indeed a dog (though I think that was already implied) and people back off your lynch. You were going to sacrifice yourself overnight then without telling the town?

[VP Baltar]

xvart is so town.

Quilford still has done nothing. Maybe people will see that soon.

that being said, lewarcher definitely has to go due to something he said not jibbing with what I know.

unvote, vote: lewarcher

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN...where you at?

[VP Baltar]

that was L-1 I believe

[VP Baltar]

XReckonerX ( 1 ) Llamarble, (L - 8 )
xvart ( 1 ) JasonT1981

what is this?

[VP Baltar]

oh goodness am I missing something? WHERE did he claim VIG?

check his claim post. You'll thank me later.

[VP Baltar]

Why would his role PM say nothing about people with multiple animals? or people with animals besides dogs and cats?

That's what's getting me.

[VP Baltar]

*Next Day*
Lewarcher82: "Gosh, I'm still alive. I don't know what happened, Mafia must have either roleblocked me or maybe glowball was lying about her dog-claim."

And then he gets lynched. Lynching him D2 instead of D1 is not particularly meaningful.

A lot of my reads right now depend on what lewarcher82 flips.

Why?

I agree with Ghostlin...man up and claim dem reads

[VP Baltar]

holy scumbags, catman. You guys post a lot while I sleep.

That should stop. (Amrun) If you think he's scum, then just freaking lynch him. We don't need to speculate and try to control a scumbag as a weapon. SCUM LIE. It's what they do to survive. I really hate that you sit there and call him scum and then take his word on everything as if he's being honest. That's just dumb, as you put it.

I think death just needs to keep raining down on lewarcher regardless of whatever CES is doing. If he's going to stop it, he'll stop it. If he doesn't, WALP lynched scum. Onward and upward. We're at 17 pages and it's quickly getting into drivel territory. I just read 5+ pages of nonsense to start my day, for example.

I like UT for town right now. He's got the same swagger I saw in [redacted].

xRx seems to have lost the fire in his belly, though I assume that's just from being tired of waiting for this lynch to happen.

Jason's last post makes me want to burn his eyes out with a hot poker.

[VP Baltar]

DDD, thoughts on Quilford and Llama?

[VP Baltar]

Also, Sotty, you should throw that hammer today. I know you don't think lew is worth leaving alive. We'll get Llama tomorrow.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I'd hopefully like to hear from DDD and Jason once more before the day is out. Just annoyed I had to read 5 pages of crap and would like to end this day before we get 10 more of the same setup/bad motivation spec.

[VP Baltar]

VPB is probably town.
"Something in my role suggests X is lying" usually comes from town.

Thanks for putting that target on my back. 'preciate it.

[VP Baltar]

lol, dis game.

[VP Baltar]

Jason - I don't know what your actual position on lewarcher is since you vacillate throughout that post. Is he town or scum?

I don't get why you think Ghostlin is scum either, can I get the sparknotes version of that?

[VP Baltar]

We can get him to tell us tomorrow (if alive) who he targetted if a cat did not die. And then match that up to whatever his claimed target says. If person targetted says they are a dog, then boom... we lynch.

he would be dead. this makes no sense.

[VP Baltar]

And then he says 'gee golly, I must have been roleblocked and etc.'

You lynch scum. He's just going to mess up something tonight and we'll be in the same spot tomorrow.

[VP Baltar]

On a somewhat related note, if "Governate" is the actual name of the ability, then your vote is improperly formatted as well. It should have been:

LAMAHBOHL

I MUST BREAK YOU

Beyond that, hammer the obvious scum, failing that lynch the other obvious scum, pastiche of previous posts goes here, etc.

Somebody needs an education in 80s movies.

[VP Baltar]

Oh hey lookie


someone hammer now.

[VP Baltar]

vote:quilford

llama - can we get the rest of your stuff now?

[VP Baltar]

what? can I get the unabridged version please. I'm a bit slow, remember.

[VP Baltar]

I thought the youtube tags weren't supposed to work in game forums.

@xvart - if you had been around at the end of the day yesterday, would you have still had your vote on Quilford?

[VP Baltar]

VP is scum except for the "I have role information suggesting Lew's claim is false" thing.
Then again I guess as scum with a non cat / dog I could say something like that.
VOTE: VP Baltar

lol, something will stick soon I'm sure. Why am I scum exactly?

[VP Baltar]

so I used the word "honestly" and I am verbose. That's your best case on Day 2?

unvote, vote: Llama

choo choo

Hey quilford, you should get in here an bus quick. This wagon is bound to go fast.

[VP Baltar]

VP does have the 'my role conflicts with Lew's let's lynch' towntell and the bit about whether we should have Roxi claim felt a smidgeon town though.

I also don't like the fact that you voted Lew more or less entirely for role-disagreement, and that he flipped town after that.
If scum think they see a hole in a townie's claim that's like BLOOOOODD IN WATER LYNCHLYNCHLYNCHLYNCH.

well that opinion conveniently shifted....

This D1 read of VPB happened because his towntells are surface-tells whereas his scumtells are slightly closer to the hardware.

you've yet to actually outline anything close to scumtells or scum motivation. you said I "string sentences together" (which doesn't even make any kind of logical sense, I am equally verbose as either alignment) and that I used the word "honestly," which is a typical word in my lexicon.

Hm...

I'll drink this Kool-Aid and see what happens.

Vote: VP Baltar (L-6)

*waits for DDD and Sotty to make their pass as well*

Llama is already so much better today. I like his VP pressure a lot.

I must be clairvoyant.

I also don't like how he belittles the points Llama brought up against him.

they are terrible points. Should I candy coat that to be more amenable?

still happy with my vote. KK and xvart should join this wagon because they are prob town.

Glowball - tell me about things other than Jason please.

[VP Baltar]

*amiable...it's too early.

[VP Baltar]

as in, I pretty much expect the stable of people I play with normally (you, DDD, Sotty) to make a swipe at my regardless of my alignment in most any game. I do the same if I'm having trouble getting a read on any one of you guys.

[VP Baltar]

Not particularly at the moment. DDD is the murkiest, but he's also barely been here so far and I'm willing to wait to make up my mind. Plenty o' scum to go after.

[VP Baltar]

feel free to check the vote count for more information

[VP Baltar]

I had assumed you were reading my posts as well, but I'll be the one that decides to not be cutesy about it.

I think Llama and Quilford have very good chances of being scum. Jason is bugging me a little bit as well. A final scum is probably in the people playing from the sidelines...ie CES, Glowball, DDD, KK, etc. I'll suss that out when I come to it.

In the meantime, let me ask you if you agree with Llama's grammar scumtell case on me?

[VP Baltar]

Also with the info of there being an SK, that means one of my town reads is scum. Great.

[VP Baltar]

I don't believe census taker...which is a role I've never encountered...confirms alignment. I'll give you that I don't see scum giving up their numbers, so it's possible I'm wrong there. He's been phoning it in all game, which is why I think he's scummy not just his initial bit.

[VP Baltar]

slowplaying this game heavily

what does this even mean? I've been questioning almost everyone and following things I see worth following. I've been very active. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

@glowball - I'm sorry, I'll be more specific since you want to be a smartass. Tell me about players in this game other than Jason who are not lynch candidates. TIA

[VP Baltar]

take your time

[VP Baltar]

we got all game

[VP Baltar]

He's been phoning it in all game, which is why I think he's scummy not just his initial bit.

And you likewise.

Try chewing on:
*how scum would know there was an SK in this game (5 scum, 16-player game, no second kill at Night)
*why scum would choose bloody

Census Taker

as a fakeclaim, and then make it without provocation
*why scum would get a Census Taker if it's not a fakeclaim
*why, if there is another killing element in the game, they would make a highly credible and generally Town claim

bullshit on me phoning it in. I've been active since this game began and I've been actively scumhunting the entire time. Spare me the tough guy routine.

In terms of selective quoting, you missed this part:

I'll give you that I don't see scum giving up their numbers, so it's possible I'm wrong there.

which is me saying that I see your point on the census taker even before you tried to beleaguer the point with your unnecessary bullet points.

[VP Baltar]

hahahahahaha, I avoided a Sotty question as well, good to know you're paying attention >_>

Anyway, JasonT there is no case to answer. You've fabricated a connection between Llam and myself that is your whole case.

Are you typically so snarky in all of your mafia games? You seem overly antagonistic anytime someone brings your name up.

Starting from the top of the day, of the two names Sotty mentioned I think UT is the scummier of them because his play has been more “normal”. Normal/boring is scummier in my book than bad/weird.

What do you mean by "normal"? It seems to me that UT (at least yesterday) was giving people shit in a legitimate way. Where is your negativity toward him coming from?

Ghostlin: I'm pretty sure I voted you because your posts surrounding the lewarcher lynch yesterday seemed opportunistic in the same way that KK's did, but you were being more subtle about it

which posts from KK seemed opportunistic again?

Why do I need to explain my fake governing? It's in essence just a reverse fake daykill. It probably would've worked better if lew had been active, but on the whole I think it was useful.

useful in what way exactly?

In fact, four of the players in this game just played in a game where there was a modifided census taker (and I designed and ran the game) so despite VPB saying he hadn't seen a census taker before he just saw the results of one last game even as it got lost in your post restriction.

Oh right. Forgot about that. Meh.

More to come after I get some coffee

[VP Baltar]

unvote, vote:DDD

Your vote switch really just seems to come at Vi's behest. Since when are you so easily flapped?

[VP Baltar]

Also, Llamarble is so fucking scum it's not even funny. Most of his D1 iso is a hard fence sit on the lew wagon while employing "cheese stands alone" voting tactics. Then when lew's lynch is inevitable he suddenly finds him so town and complains of the hammer, as if it's the rest of the town's fault he didn't start participating until the 11th hour. Then he starts today with the 'poor me' act. Give me a break.

His reads aren't even consistent. For example, Vi goes from "towntown" in post 214 because he shares her reads throughout the early game, to not even making his deep reads before the end of the day. Today, Vi is "shades of grey," which I find funny and inexplicable given his other stances.

Then he proceeds to use 'grammar tells' to suss out my alignment while simultaneously using my reasons for calling lew scum yesterday as both a town and a scum tell.

Does not compute.

p.edit ---

Uh, where is the info on there being an SK? We know there's a third party. It's not at all the same thing. (Vi also made this mistake, but it was after yours so I think she subconsciously picked your mistake up, and also this was addressed in her and she used it as a towntell for Quilford, which isn't at all scummy.)

Get out of here with this bullshit. It's a natural assumption to think SK when you hear 3rd party. It could be incorrect, but how exactly does that make me scum? You're suggesting the scum would know a 3rd party is an SK from the start? Use some common sense. Also, nice excuse making when it comes to Vi. VP is the big bad wolf influencing people's thought processes.

You, on the other hand... That was a weird post already, as Vi noted. You have townreads on EVERYONE? I don't even know who your scumreads are, but you have "plenty," though apparently less than five.

How many scum do you think are in this game? Seems to me like I have much better chances hitting scum with a narrow field of strong reads than a broad spectrum of murky reads. Less than five suspects is more than enough. How many do you have, let me check...1...2...3 in your post. M'kay.

Your response to Llamarble's vote was really scummy. You didn't address the point at all. You implied that you had a viable reason to believe lewarcher was scum based on your role, but lewarcher wasn't scum. That doesn't make you insta-scum, but you avoiding the issue doesn't look so great.

What issue am I avoiding again? My response to his vote couldn't have been more town. He called bullshit 'grammar tells' which are not legitimate, and is essentially Mastin-level of scum hunting. Then he contradicts himself on his own point about my so called role info, which I readily point out. Seems like I addressed it pretty clear, so you better explain to me what I'm missing.

[VP Baltar]

1. No, I don't think scum would know that, but it's quite possible that an SK would know that. It's not a huge thing, but I wanted to mention it. If we had flips to indicate sk, there wouldn't be even this note.

I would think you'd be checking out the people calling lewarcher SK yesterday before the census info first. But you do as you please.

2 - what's strange? I'm not afraid to take stances. If someone does something scummy, they can go from town to scum. I'm not worried about someone going 'zomg, what about that town read' because I can always explain when and where my reads change. It's called legit scumhunting. Also, I know lots of people here and I believe I can read their town/scum personas reasonably well.

3 - not really an area of discussion I'm getting into, but thanks for fishing. I had reasons for being on the lewarcher wagon that were legitimate. Stay tuned!

[VP Baltar]

I didn't flail, and I explained clearly why his reasons are crap. I suggest you reread that section for greater clarity. I'll paraphrase what I said yesterday though: 'from what i know, lewarcher's role doesn't seem to jibe'

You can read into that however much or little you want. I dont' intend to expand upon it.

[VP Baltar]

You seem to be of the opinion that I really and truly thought KK was 100% scum and thus my vote switch was somehow a big revelation, what in my posts gave you that impression?

Well, it's not really that, I just expect you to be serious about your votes and it seemed to me like you moved rather easily for no reason other than a poke in the ribs. Listen, I'm going to be straight with you, I really want you to prove your towniness to me so we can just wreck some fools like in WWF. Unlike Vi or Sotty, I feel like you and I are able to lock in on each other's townieness without a doubt. That's something I want to be able to do and let the scum kill us off if they like. I can't have this middling read of you for the rest of the game.

Post 41 is where you address his reasons, and it doesn't actually do what you profess and reads as flailing to me.

did you even read those quotes from llama I posted? They are completely contradictory. Do I really need to explain them word for word so it is clearer? To me, it couldn't be any more contradictory.

I also explained why 'grammar tells' are bullshit. A simple glance at any town game from me will show my verbosity. I'm sure you can find the word honestly in a town game as well. It's a completely ridiculous argument from him. I don't see what was unclear, unexplained or flailing about anything I said actually.

In terms of Quilford, you're right I didn't open the day with a big case. I wanted to see his reaction, but I never really got around to it because llama out scummed him first. My reasons for voting quilford were as follows: 1) his bullshit read on Sotty remains bullshit! 2) He was completely listless yesterday. He joined the lewarcher lynch, talked about it for awhile, then inexplicably decides he's uneasy with it. 3) he never voted again for the rest of the day 4) He's been on the sidelines all game and continues to do so.

I'm still waiting for an explanation of your Quilford and Jason reads, VP.

Yeah, I'm typing them. I'll try to be quicker next time your highness.

[VP Baltar]

Amrun, chainsawing for llamarble since 2011. Trademark.

[VP Baltar]

You said one thing about grammar tells, but MOST OF what llamarble has to say has NOTHING to do with that. I don't give a shit about that argument either way, really. It's a dumb tell, and it's fine to call him out on it, but you equating his entire case with one bad tell and using it to discredit everything without addressing everything makes me really uncomfortable.

Do I need to act like Fate so you actually read stuff. Llama made two points. 1) grammar tells 2) my reason for doubting lewarcher's claim. I've thoroughly discussed both of those, both in my direct address to him and to you. What exactly are you missing? EVERYTHING HAS BEEN ADDRESSED MULTIPLE TIMES.

You still managed to dodge the Jason question, though.

Again, coming to it, but etc. I never stated 'plenty of reasons for voting Jason', as you put it. I stated things throughout the game that bugged me about what he said, but he's never been that strong of a scum read for me. You're suggesting I should be voting a mediocre read over a strong scum read because that would be more in accordance with Amrun's worldview? No thanks.

Do you seriously think Quilford is scum, still?

Where did I say that? I think he has scummy actions in spades. That is tempered by the census taker info. I'm still digesting that. He's not my top lynch choice for today by any means though.

p-edit: Mudslinging. Nice.

It's not mudslinging if it's true. Keep white knighting for llama without substance and I'll keep calling you on it. AtE. nice.

p. edit - ok. You see it as flailing, as you've repeated ad nauseum. I think we all get that. Of course, you can't actually explain that given that I just shot your point full of holes and pointed out how I explained everything and why his points are bunk, but please continue.

Let me ask you this, if llamarble was so much scum yesterday, why are you defending his shit posting so fiercely right now? Don't say you're not, because you've railed for almost a page now about how good his scum hunting of me was. Why defend someone you think has a good chance of being scum?

[VP Baltar]

My points to llama could not have been more clear in my iso 41. I'm sorry you were unable to interpret them until I wrote it out in big letters for you.

I haven't misinterpreted a single one of your posts. You are defending llama's case, and quite poorly I must say. You pretending like you're not doing that doesn't make it so. Whether you want to admit it or not, you've taken up his cause. Don't blame me if I make that link. If Llama flips scum, don't be pissed at me you chainsawed for him. At least have the moxy to admit when you're defending him.

In terms of Quilford v. Jason, I reveal my feelings and votes as I see fit and necessary. That's not really your call to make.

[VP Baltar]

That's how I roll. I'm not in a particularly good mood already today, and you repeating the same lame duck arguments back at me after I've said how the points were explained in the original post to llama is quite grating. I don't have a high tolerance for people who clearly ignore evidence in thread to make their point. It's not scumhunting, it's an empty routine that looks like busy work to me. You don't like me so much, you should probably move your vote to me and stop making a song and dance about the lead up to it.

[VP Baltar]

Now I feel bad for that one time in that one game. F&E.

I wouldn't really say it's your or Sotty's fault alone. I just feel like there is this skeptical measure that always hangs in the air when I play with you guys. I don't get that with DDD. I wish it wasn't the case, trust me.

Also, I know it's a lot to ask, but sift through that Amrun stuff and read what I said about Llama and his inconsistent reads and victim playing today. I really do think he's scum here. Don't let the wordiness of that argument distract from truth about llama embedded in there.

[VP Baltar]

why did Vi move in your reads?

[VP Baltar]

Overall VP is poking at logic-holy-things instead of at scummy-things.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on VP.

You said this about me in DDD's game too where I was legitimately scumhunting (and successfully I might add). I think it's a pretty bunk accusation.

[VP Baltar]

@sotty - I remember my role, but I was legitimately scumhunting there. That's my point, I don't think you can deny that considering our hydra was instrumental in the death of two scums there.

@Vi - I share your sentiment. I am just saying it's a flimsy and inaccurate argument. She may be town, but she's fueling a bad case mad by a scum. I'm gonna call her out on that.

[VP Baltar]

I think I've talked less about Quilford's town read of you than you have...just a thought.

Also, I was SK in that game, meaning I was scumhunting no differently than I would as town...which was my point.

[VP Baltar]

I have a big interview today guys. I probably won't have much time for this game, so fair warning.

That being said,

unvote, vote: Llama

I'm gonna try this a different way, help me lynch this scumbag DDD...then I'll know you're town.

@Jason - I was an SK in DDD's game. In that game, Sotty claimed I was poking at logic holes and arguing semantics rather than scumhunting. She claims I am doing the same thing here. I told her, the problem with her logic is that as a third party in that game I was legitimately scumhunting. That is optimal SK play--hunt scum for real during the day, kill townies at night. I was a part of two scum deaths in that game. That's why I told her that her argument is bad. I was legit scumhunting there and I'm legit scumhunting here, whether she agrees with my approach or not is not an alignment tell.

[VP Baltar]

Thanks! I need it! I hate interviews.

Let's not get into the second part, but rather, lynch Llama.

[VP Baltar]

I actually got hired before the interview was done. That's good motivation to just kill some people!

DDD vs. UT is dum dum. UT is unlikely to be scum, though he does need to broaden his horizons and change this town game of 'do nothing, bitch when attacked'. DDD...well, you're better than that and making me wary. Get in here and give me some real fire.

The case on Ghostlin is that he's useless basically, right? I think that's a pretty loose label that can be applied to a lot of people here. We really need to get out of this bitch fest of non-involvement. It's kind of a stupid circling the day drain. It may hit scum eventually, but it's kind of a crapshoot and I think we can do better.

KK, why is xvart scum? Yesterday you were all over him because you said he was lewarcher's scumbuddy and trying to save him from a lynch. Today, you're saying he's scum because....

Vi and CES are basically vote camping on me and I'm not sure why. If you two actually think I'm scum, then please push my lynch. If not, do something useful with those votes that is actually likely to hit scum. (IE, move to Llamar)

glowball probably fits into the vote camping society as well. You really seem to be doing nothing active and are just coasting on VI-town status.

[VP Baltar]

UT absolutely heads the list as most likely to be scum; Vi says he was flaky and unsure as scum in the one game meta she referenced; well today all he's done is bitch at me for a non-case.

THIS IS WHAT HE DOES AS TOWN. I just finished shaft.ed's Kids in the Hall with him. I got him lynched as town for this very reason. He's really not likely to be scum imo.

[VP Baltar]

Yo, KK...I was serious about my xvart question to you. Please answer that.

[VP Baltar]

lol, ice in those veins

[VP Baltar]

none other

[VP Baltar]

Vi catching people posting elsewhere on site. I know this game.

unvote, vote: Ghostlin

[VP Baltar]

L-2 I think

[VP Baltar]

His early cases on Quilford and JasonT1981 felt that way.

what about the jason case was nagging at you?

[VP Baltar]

I'm not thrilled with VP Baltar and glowball mailing their stuff in

what?

[VP Baltar]

@ghostlin - my apologies for a three post exchange with Vi because we've played umpteen games together. I will be more serious business...oh wait, I've been hunting scum all game.

@glowball - if you want to put away the dramaphone for two seconds, you have been all but entirely useless for the day. I don't think that's really being off-base.

[VP Baltar]

VP- there is no drama, just wondering what is going on... and there's no need to call me useless when I'm here answering questions allowing all of you to get a read on this slot if you must.

So, in your opinion, your sufficient level of participation is gracing us with your presence so we can get a read on you "if we must"? you hate this game or something?

I'm going to have full reads tomorrow after noon- hold me to that because it's obvious you guys need me to lay out what is going on in my head as I read.

well praise the little baby jesus. Glad you could join us. Now if CES would just do the same.

I could make a case, and maybe I will, if necessary, but pretty much everyone sees the sliminess of your answers, so thankfully, I don't think I need to.

Actually, I think you do. Please proceed. I don't want quote stripe walls. Just give me the bullet points please.

[VP Baltar]

lol, so if Vi repeats what I've been saying all damn day, it suddenly makes Llama seem scummier. Good to hear my opinion is so valued 'round these parts.

unvote, vote: Llama

[VP Baltar]

TOWN:
Llamarble
Ghostlin
Glowball

Probtown:
KK

Leaning town:
Amrun - rethinking a read (especially from scum to town on a townie) is a towntell.
Lewarcher - I read through several times as town and nothing blared wut at me. Reading through as scum I kept getting hooked on things like "He is thinking about 2 possibilities then decides on one of them soon thereafter while not under pressure -> is solving puzzle -> is town" or "feel free to meta me" (sounds 'I've-got-nothing-to-hide-ish) or 'kick VI's ass for lynching me' (this variant of you'll be sorry sounds kinda townish), etc. I JUST WANT HIM TO SCUMHUNT SOMETHING.

Iffy:
CES - he has a couple of decent early posts, but mostly is just watching. I could see faking governor from either angle.

Scum:
DDDP - Scumterse except for setup talk and fencesitty commentary on me / Quilford. Not enough puzzling the game out. Also 414 scumlink to Quilford wheee.
Jason - II had town on him early but I was totally wrong. 135, 161, the quote striping post is just amazing and the glowball vote is :terrible:
Would Jason make that level of wall as scum / town?

Why Reck indeed.

[VP Baltar]

My apologies for lack of presence here the past couple of days. Starting a new job + holiday season = zero free time unfortunately. I'm going to try to get caught up tonight when I get home from work (hopefully), so hold with me just a bit longer. I'll have choice words for a few people from what little I"ve skimmed.

[VP Baltar]

Wait.. what? I get sick for a couple of days and come back to see my Ghostlin wagon decimated in favor of a Llamarble wagon?

And it looks like Llamarble is conceding without any kind of claim? Well... shit. That's a scum-tell in itself.

I'm not totally happy with this turn of events. I think there are better lynches for today.

This is just zigging and zagging all over the place and I don't like it. Pick a side.

Mmkay so should Llam turn out to be town, Vi deserves death.

I really don't see why you weren't vigged last night. Also, don't give Vi credit for calling Llam on BS contradictions when I was saying that since early o'clock. Hate on me if you're gonna hate.

It's pretty obvious that Jason should be lynched, since he's scum and it gives us information.

What information is that exactly?

I'm not protecting Jason as evidence my questioning of him and willingness to lynch him.

Last time I was paying attention to this game, I was under the impression you thought he was p. town overall. How willing are you to lynch him?

Xvart is just interested in getting him lynch any which way as demonstrated by his ridiculous case.

Wait...so now you're bashing xvart for trying to get him lynched? well, which is it? you're either okay with lynching Jason or you're not. I don't know how relevant xvart's reasoning, good or bad, should be to your willingness to move in that direction necessarily.

Oversized Scum Tier - Five scum, six people
VP Baltar

so you steal my wagon on obv scum and call me scum. u so crazy.

The real question is whether or not the JK on VP was the reason for one less kill.

lol, wut? so there's a SK in this game?

Did Llamarble just claim Serial Killer?

xvart beat him too it, see above.

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-7)
Helped ram through lewarcher lynch Yesterday, is on jason wagon primarily because he was fourth on the Llamarble wagon Today, pretty much hasn't said or done anything else.
Can substitute VPB or xvart as necessary.

and where do I figure into this exactly? You've been pushing the wagon I started all day...again I don't see how I miraculously make it onto your scumlist unless it's for simple absence, which I hope you can excuse given circumstances.


...blah...tired of reading...I'll get to the rest of this later. I'll also mull over whether or not I feel like outting my role based on my thoughts on llamarable.

[VP Baltar]

Still not read up from like 36 onward, but I'm home from work now and I'll probably do a little more tonight.

Decided I will claim because it does validate what Llama is saying...I was indeed blocked last night.

unvote

As much of a scum read as I have on him, doubtful scum would track and kill the same person. Only thing I could see is if Llama is a third party role with a tracking ability...but I don't really want to go down that road right now. I still don't care for the way xvart framed it as a missing kill either. That definitely sounds fishy to me...which I hate since I had a town read on him prior.

More and a new vote incoming as soon as I slog through the rest of this.

[VP Baltar]

We're not sure the third party is a killing role or not.
But yeah, VP being blocked on a night where there weren't as many kills as expected increases the odds he's scum.

If there is an SK then VP should be lynched because he is rolewise substantially more likely than anyone else to be scum.
We are essentially guaranteed a third party by Qford's census, so an SK is reasonably likely, so VP's overall probability of being scum is somewhat higher than everybody else's.

This is what I'm talking about....so many leaps in logic. you're acting desperate to paint me as scum. You're clearly more logical than this.

[VP Baltar]

Mmkay so should Llam turn out to be town, Vi deserves death.

I really don't see why you weren't vigged last night. Also, don't give Vi credit for calling Llam on BS contradictions when I was saying that since early o'clock. Hate on me if you're gonna hate.

Maybe because we lynched the vig, derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp. What is the point of this comment?

The real question is whether or not the JK on VP was the reason for one less kill.

lol, wut? so there's a SK in this game?

Did Llamarble just claim Serial Killer?

xvart beat him too it, see above.

But earlier, when I called you on this same thinking, it wasn't indicative of anything. Now you use it against xvart? What?

1) it was an off-hand comment because glowball is being pretty ridiculous throughout this game
2) It's not the same at all. Hearing the word 'third party' and thinking SK is not the same as saying 'there was only one kill last night, therefore VP is the SK.'

[VP Baltar]

Yes they are. Try reading the game.

vote: Ghostlin

This wagon only really dissipated because llamar was scumming it up. I'm willing to give llama a stay of execution based on his claim, so back at it.

I also don't like xvart now...so he needs to answer my question.

[VP Baltar]

read what xvart and llama said to be more specific.

[VP Baltar]

That has to be the weakest claim I've ever seen, since we're in a game full of roles. And it doesn't really confirm anything, because if Llama really did track Reck to you, then Reck did the block (via jailkeeping), and that doesn't exonerate you from the suspicion that you're the 3rd-party (assuming Quil's telling the truth), and that you're possibly a killer of some sort.I'm not really sure what you were hoping to gain with that, other than to confirm that Llama tracked you -- which could be a role for either alignment.

The point was to confirm llama was telling the truth about his track (of Reck, not me). Nobody was saying it clears me of anything, but I'm also not going to full claim over that. There is no reason for me to do that.

[VP Baltar]

Well given the situation I don't think it is too far of a stretch given the information we were operating under at the time (the census results). You certainly didn't have much to say about it yesterday when people were saying "given a third party I always assume SK unless evidence suggests otherwise". What's the difference?

lack of a second kill is just as much evidence to the contrary as it is evidence in support. In fact, I would say statistically speaking is speaks stronger to the former. That's why I'm saying making those leaps in logic is more than a touch suspicious considering how you and Llama are trying to pass it off as an open and shut case, imo.

[VP Baltar]

really? cause it looks to me mostly like OMGUS and trying to spin hay into gold with the roleblock. Other than my lack of presence over the past couple of days and the contradicting logic you presented earlier that I shot full of holes....what exactly is indicating scum from my day play to you?

[VP Baltar]

seems to me like Ghostlin is a much more viable wagon than xvart

[VP Baltar]

Well given the situation I don't think it is too far of a stretch given the information we were operating under at the time (the census results). You certainly didn't have much to say about it yesterday when people were saying "given a third party I always assume SK unless evidence suggests otherwise". What's the difference?

lack of a second kill is just as much evidence to the contrary as it is evidence in support. In fact, I would say statistically speaking is speaks stronger to the former. That's why I'm saying making those leaps in logic is more than a touch suspicious considering how you and Llama are trying to pass it off as an open and shut case, imo.

Oh hey, you want to lynch xvart too.

I couldn't hear you over all of the ghostlin votes, my apologies.

[VP Baltar]

it's going to be ghostlin or xvart it appears. you should vote for one of those. Let's make this a nice dueling wagon scenario at deadline to really make the scum scramble.

[VP Baltar]

Spoiler: So Tired

Day 2

Amrun ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Cogito Ergo Sum ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Debonair Danny DiPietro ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Ghostlin ( 3 )

Amrun,

Cogito Ergo Sum,

VP Baltar,

[/color]

(L - 5 )

glowball ( 1 )

JasonT1981,

[/color]

(L - 7 )

JasonT1981 ( 4 )

glowball,

Debonair Danny DiPietro,

xvart,

saulres,

[/color]

(L - 4 )

Kublai Khan ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Llamarble ( 3 )

Ghostlin,

Kublai Khan,

Quilford,

[/color]

(L - 5 )

Quilford ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Sotty7 ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

saulres ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

Vi ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 8 )

VP Baltar ( 1 )

Llamarble,

[/color]

(L - 8 )

xvart ( 2 )

Sotty7,

Vi,

[/color]

(L - 7 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 1 )

Roxi,

Total Votes ( 15 )

Needed to Lynch [ 8 ]

Deadline: Nov. 28th at 20:00 EST

my math is busted I guess...appears to me like it's 4-2 in favor of ghostlin atm.

[VP Baltar]

all I'm saying is, votes cast are worth more than votes promised. The ghostlin wagon was at what, L-1 or something, earlier? I'm not gonna sit here and say he has 7 votes when he only has four.

And you can snipe at me all you want, the ghostlin wagon is clearly superior and going to lead to a scum lynch. Apart from xvart pushing some baloney about me being the SK, which could just be poor reasoning from a townie, he's been active and scumhunting. Ghostlin...not so much. Nothing fake about that, it's just the facts.

More Ghostlin votes now.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not really trying to convince YOU. Just stating things for everyone else involved so they can see that saying xvart wagon is a lock is malarkey. I'm starting to find your motives pretty questionable actually, and your adversity to the ghostlin wagon strikes me as odd. So i'm certainly willing to go up against you on this one.

Let me ask you this for the record, you think xvart has done less than ghostlin this game?

[VP Baltar]

I recall quite well actually. Don't really understand not voting Ghostlin considering...

[VP Baltar]

I recall quite well actually. Don't really understand not voting Ghostlin considering...

Well you could try convincing us with a case.

seem to be doing just fine on my current course of action. You got a problem with the Ghostlin wagon?

[VP Baltar]

Yup. The problem is I don't think he is scum. Also your vote has no backing to it that I see. I gave you a chance to correct that and you didn't.

Well there are really two factors to this:

1) I'm quite busy lately and don't have the time (or willpower) to be making big quote cases. Not your prob, I know, but still the reality.

2) The reasons I think Ghostlin are scum are basically as follows: he's been playing from the sidelines all game with no serious pushes on anyone, he seems to only pop up when his name is called but posts elsewhere on site, and general annoying gut twinge that's been there since I voted him way back when. It's not really a "case" that needs to be made so much as these are things I think are self-evident with even a cursory glance at him this game.

How you don't think he's scum, I don't understand in the slightest.

[VP Baltar]

ghostlin are scum....

make that an is

[VP Baltar]

sooooo

people presented their cases, you going to still pretend like Ghostlin isn't scummy?

[VP Baltar]

Sotty, you're really doing shit all right now, so it's pretty hypocritical for you to sit there and rip into jason for a less than impressive catchup. All I've seen you do the past few days is complain about Ghostlin getting lynched, while having very little reason to think 'other lynches are better' as far as I can tell. I find it pretty unrealistic that you see his play as that townie.

[VP Baltar]

Sotty, you're really doing shit all right now, so it's pretty hypocritical for you to sit there and rip into jason for a less than impressive catchup.

All I've seen you do the past few days is complain about Ghostlin getting lynched

, while having very little reason to think 'other lynches are better' as far as I can tell. I find it pretty unrealistic that you see his play as that townie.

This hasn't happened. I'm not stopping the Ghostlin lynch, I'm not defending the cases. I asked for clarification and people gave it. It's not a stellar case in my opinion but it's not terrible either. I just prefer a Jason compromise over a Ghostlin one.

I'd hammer Ghostlin in a deadline situation if we needed it.

Quite disagree, you've just been passive aggressively saying other people are scummier and blah blah, but you're not really doing anything to rally people to your cause if that's truly your belief. You complaining at Jason for making useless comments is being just as useless given the approaching deadline. If you feel strongly that xvart is scum, why are you not trumpeting that lynch from the rooftops to make it happen? You've been taking pot shots at me, but at least I'm here making a lynch happen on someone who I think is scummy. All I'm saying is that it looks like quite a lot of affectation from you.

[VP Baltar]

I'm surprised you didn't mention VP Baltar though, since he has also been a vocal part of the bloc stymieing non-Ghostlin wagons.

Pardon? What wagons have I stymied other than the most recent xvart one, which I'd argue is simply the will of the people speaking more than me slowing anything up?

[VP Baltar]

I'm surprised you didn't mention VP Baltar though, since he has also been a vocal part of the bloc stymieing non-Ghostlin wagons.

Pardon? What wagons have I stymied other than the most recent xvart one, which I'd argue is simply the will of the people speaking more than me slowing anything up?

Which people?

the people voting for scum-ghostlin...you know, those of you that aren't his buddies.

how you feeling about Sotty right now? She still your A1 townread?

[VP Baltar]

And exactly who are these people who have just impressed your vote onto Ghostlin?

huh? I don't understand the question.

And it really just looks to me like you're kind of complaining and moaning because your locked xvart wagon didn't happen. No reason for sour grapes. If Ghostlin flips scum, I'm sure you'll come up with something new to complain about me then. In the meantime, please clarify the question.

[VP Baltar]

Also, I really don't see a reason for my opinion on Sotty to have changed.

lol

[VP Baltar]

And who are these people?(Not sure why I'm bothering to answer your bait questions to begin with.)

KK and jason for example. they were both saying Ghostlin was scummy from way back and are just coming around now that the wagon is viable again. That has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with Ghostlin being the most popular lynch candidate today. Hell, even you were saying earlier that you thought he was scummy enough to lynch. Now you're apparently being "manipulated" into voted it, which seems like a silly accusation to be making given you were quoting yourself as to why you found him scummy.

[VP Baltar]

also, where the fuck is DDD? Holiday is over bro. If you're trying to save your buddy Ghostlin by not being here, don't think I haven't noticed.

@xvart - The ghostlin wagon is where it is at. If you're town, you were supposed to be the counterwagon to Ghostlin scum. Don't let them fool you into a Jason mislynch. This entire thing will get cracked wide open when Ghostlin flips scum, so come on over.

ninja'd

[VP Baltar]

imo, they grossly misjudged how popular your wagon would be and thought they could ram it through. I think Ghostlin is a highly informative lynch given the push on you at that time.

[VP Baltar]

KK, don't abandon me now. Ghostlin is scum and you know this. We really don't have time for a third freaking distraction wagon from this lynch. Vi is doing everything in her power to stop this from happening. That should be a huge red light that Ghostlin is the correct lynch for the day. There is no logical reason she would be doing that if she thought he was even half as scummy as she claims she does.

Saulres - listen to me bro, you're getting conned and hard. You're a smart guy, but some of this game is instinct. I should never be this tough to get a universally scummy player lynched. There is shennanigans afoot right now. I'm telling you this from years of experience. Sometimes you just need to take a leap. If i'm wrong, you guys can hate on me all day tomorrow. There is no reason Ghostlin should NOT be lynched today.

[VP Baltar]

sigh...

I really don't know what it is about my personality people find so scummy for no reason whatsoever.

[VP Baltar]

Vi is doing everything in her power to stop this from happening. That should be a huge red light that Ghostlin is the correct lynch for the day.

Oh, so you're finally making that leap to sort of vaguely call me scum, since someone reading me as Town would come to the opposite conclusion. In spite of me trying to get a wagon going on someone you've

also

called scum. Because I would totally be the one to make Ghostlin-scumpartner's wagon legitimate, and then turn around and meta away at DDD-other-scumpartner when he's quite safely under the radar.

I'm impressed with the hard sell you're putting out. KK "knows" Ghostlin is scum and is "abandoning" you, toeing the line of calling me scum by saying I'm diverting the wagon, making me out to be a puppeteer "conning" saulres, talking about your "years of experience" (which incidentally I have too), and saying all the reasons people find you scummy are "your personality". I'm not even being sarcastic; I'm genuinely impressed.

So you know what? I'll play your game, and I'll beat you at it.

The case on Ghostlin is that he's useless basically, right? I think that's a pretty loose label that can be applied to a lot of people here. We really need to get out of this bitch fest of non-involvement. It's kind of a stupid circling the day drain. It may hit scum eventually, but it's kind of a crapshoot and I think we can do better.

Vi catching people posting elsewhere on site. I know this game.

unvote, vote: Ghostlin

Once again, I made the Ghostlin wagon legitimate. But let's keep going.

@ghostlin - my apologies for a three post exchange with Vi because we've played umpteen games together. I will be more serious business...oh wait, I've been hunting scum all game.

Biggest and only beef with Ghostlin.

lol, so if Vi repeats what I've been saying all damn day, it suddenly makes Llama seem scummier. Good to hear my opinion is so valued 'round these parts.

unvote, vote: Llama

Easy jump to what obviously seems like a better wagon. Time passes, Llamahatellamahatellamaclaim...

vote: Ghostlin

This wagon only really dissipated because llamar was scumming it up. I'm willing to give llama a stay of execution based on his claim, so back at it.

Yes; you were so convinced before.

seems to me like Ghostlin is a much more viable wagon than xvart

I couldn't hear you over all of the ghostlin votes, my apologies.

it's going to be ghostlin or xvart it appears. you should vote for one of those. Let's make this a nice dueling wagon scenario at deadline to really make the scum scramble.

my math is busted I guess...appears to me like it's 4-2 in favor of ghostlin atm.

all I'm saying is, votes cast are worth more than votes promised. The ghostlin wagon was at what, L-1 or something, earlier? I'm not gonna sit here and say he has 7 votes when he only has four.

And you can snipe at me all you want, the ghostlin wagon is clearly superior and going to lead to a scum lynch. Apart from xvart pushing some baloney about me being the SK, which could just be poor reasoning from a townie, he's been active and scumhunting. Ghostlin...not so much. Nothing fake about that, it's just the facts.

More Ghostlin votes now.

...and the spin basically escalates from here.

So we've established that you have no evident reason to be on the Ghostlin wagon, but have pushed it with so much conviction that you're willing to call out scumpartners derailing the wagon. Now, why could that be? The last time I checked - please tell me if this has changed - you weren't stupid, you weren't delusional, and you weren't ABR.

So I'll call your bluff.

Unvote: Debonair Danny DiPietro
Vote: Ghostlin

(L-2)

If he flips Town, some people might say that you will have a lot of explaining to do. I am not one of those people, because I won't bother to listen to it.
If he flips scum, imagine that! You picked that up and ran with it based on... basically nothing to speak of according to you. In the words of YOUR scumpartner, that's bullshit. I'll take the scum lynch you offered and go for the people who almost plainly stated foreknowledge of the flip.

You don't get to opt out of it. You've already said I can have my way with you if he flips Town, and I fully plan to do so. And if he flips scum, I think I've made it quite clear why you're next.

Have a nice day.

hahaahahahah....what's the matter? Realize I just called you out for what you've been doing since you decided to go against me on this? Nice try to turn it around, and pretty much what I'd expect from someone knowing what he's going to flip.

I made myself an immovable object on this wagon because of the way you and Sotty have been hamstringing it. Now you want to play the victim here and say I haven't been committed to it or it's some bussing conspiracy. Pardon me while I die with laughter. Don't forget, I conned you into voting it before. No sense in pretending like you're voting of your own volition now so you can seem like this is your doing. It's not.

You keep bringing up ABR...and I have to say that credit is due where credit is due. This is definitely an ABR tactic, and one that works I might add. Much as I loathe his play, he's not devoid of some good ideas.

So, in short, thank you for the vote and don't expect any mercy if Ghostlin flips scum. Better kill me tonight if you know what's good for your team.

[VP Baltar]

=======[]
[]=======

[VP Baltar]

yes, hammer while you still can. I'm sure you and Vi aren't both scum. One of you probably just has your head up your butt. Therefore, prove to me it's you and we can call a truce to move forward on.