Driving Mafia - GAME OVER - Kentic controls all the cock!

[Nocmen]

Obligatory

Vote: Vezok

[Nocmen]

I'm happy norman replaced out. His name is too close to mine.

[Nocmen]

Still okay with my vezok vote.

FoS: Anka

[Nocmen]

VOTE: Vezokpiraka

My powers of telepathy says this person is scum. At least he deserves a wagon anyway.

So this wasn't and RVS vote? And how is your new vote not an RVS vote?

The first was partly RVS, but my second one isn't.

So that's not the same reason.

Unvote, Vote: Ankamius

[Nocmen]

UNVOTE: kiwieagle

first was partly RVS, but my second one isn't.

So that's not the same reason.

Unvote, Vote: Ankamius

Hey, Nocmen.

The same reason I voted for Vezokpiraka.

And no, the reason is not RVS.

I will explain my votes when it becomes relevant to.

--

StrangerCoug and Farside are town. Nocmen is scummy. The Mask's wagon is horrible. I'm torn on Stevie. RBT is scummy. Kiwi is null-town.

VOTE: RiceBallTail

I approve of this wagon.

Yup, because you all of a sudden have your own reason for it in your first post of the game, makes it so that I must be scummy because I'm calling you out on it.
And what has RBT done? You're saying one thing with your posts, another with your votes.

[Nocmen]

Not feeling the Ank wagon. Some games need enigmas like him. Stevie & Ank is not something I see. I'm thinking more Stevie & Strange.

Vote: Stevie

Not solely because he claimed miller .. It looks like the miller issue is all you voted for.

But how does Strange work with Stevie? Or is it just that you see both scummy on their own, and not a blatant defense association?

[Nocmen]

Mod: I believe my vote was moved to Ankamius in 82.

Just to ensure it's moved,

Unvote, Vote: ankamius

I don't see the issue with SC's criticism for mentioning Norman, but I do find it suspect that SC would unvote Mask for something like that. The way SC jumps on Mask, for something that's not RVS, and then jumps off is definitely a concern to me.

Fixed. - Amrun

[Nocmen]

Goddamnit farside stop saying what I'm going to say before I post that.

But yea, Stevie, I'm curious to hear the same answers, especially the first two that farside said.

[Nocmen]

Why would he be curious about Norman's now NS's role in the first place? Hell why would he say something as useless as "It must have offended him"?

sounds speculative to me.

If I understand this, you say it's a crime for me to express excitement for fallout/pic flip

A

, but it's okay for everyone to place joke votes and wagon .. Different things, sure. But both fall under the umbrella of irrelevancy

B

. Why are joke votes acceptable but not my curiosity? / How is one more meaningful than the other?

C

A. Yes it is.

B. No they aren't. you trying to get discussion going over Norman's role =/= Voting someone in RVS

C. Votes evolve into wagons which gain info. NOT Specifically on the wagonee but more or less the people on the wagon as well. You talking about someone's role isn't.

I am not connecting the dots in regard to point B. What, exactly, are you denying about joke votes and wagoning—that they are acceptable or that they are irrelevant? In addition, while I agree that trying to get people to discus Norman's role is not random voting, I fail to see how the random voting stage is related to the topic at hand. Could you explain how it is relevant?

YES it's Part OF the role but it still DIRECTLY HAS TO DO WITH THE ROLE. Not having one bit of it.

Yes, the picture plays a decent part of the role, but I still disagree that it, to the extent that I see it as relevant right now (that it was possibly offensive to Norman), could get any useful info that could help scum. If The Mask speculated about objective information about the pic (for example, specifics about what it is a picture of), then I would be in agreement that The Mask was rolefishing and leave my vote on him alone. However, what he speculative is subjective—that the picture is offensive. Norman could have found the picture acceptable and stayed in the game and we'd still have as little information about what he is.

What I still don't understand is how is Norman being offended give any information at all regarding a role?

[Nocmen]

Ank: Do you think that by putting your vote on these people, who have not taken a stance, is just trying to set up blame on them? Because it sure seems to me like you're pushing too hard for easy mislynches.

[Nocmen]

To go off farside's comment - I don't think Mask is scummy. I see a brief reason why people would want him as a quick wagon, but now, I see him as people trying to set up an easy lynch. Same with vezok. Can't comment on RBT, I've never played with him before.

While I agree with farside that cooldog is scummy for post 25, I haven't seen anything else past that.
Same with scooby, I actually see his posts as a better case against SC, who I

Fos: SC

right now. For jumping to mask wagon, and then attacking kcd still for god know's what.

Finally, my third suspect is Stevie, because regardless, I see voting someone for a D1 claim as rolefishing/outguessing mod/etc, none of which can be a good reason.

[Nocmen]

Ank: Do you think that by putting your vote on these people, who have not taken a stance, is just trying to set up blame on them? Because it sure seems to me like you're pushing too hard for easy mislynches.

No, I'm trying to get reads on them. There's a difference.

And do you seriously expect to get that from vezok?

[Nocmen]

My laptop died today. I'm still going to try and post once a day from the library, but my volume of posts probably won't be quite as much as I would like.

Why is nobody voting CoolDog? I don't think there's much support for a kcdaspot wagon but there certainly seem to be a lot of people who say he's scummy yet no one is voting him. let's wagon him.

unvote, vote: CoolDog

Opportunistic much?

why has he NOT been lynched

Why is this opportunistic? Can you call it that when there's not a real wagon going on?

Scooby: What else from farside, except the vote on you, do you find so scummy? Because in 175, when you mention that a disagreement with her doesn't make you scummy, why does that same disagreement make her scummy?

Also, what you think about the consideration that scum would do the same thing that you mention in this quote? If someone has a bad attack on them, why won't they try to prove it otherwise? I'm not liking how you think this movement all of a sudden makes people town.

Townies usually think people attacking them with lame arguments are scum.

Final question to you scooby: I see why you would reveal the reasons on SC and Ank, but why someone like kiwi as your third? That makes me consider a bit more that you have weak reasoning on the rest.

Farside and mask are town. I'd like to see a good reason otherwise for either right now.

[Nocmen]

@SC: I asked you to explain how you can understand him and see his point on things.

Yup CoolDog is scum this game.
Driving a over and over on something that has already been responded and acting like he's pushing a case.

yawn.

I don't know, ank's response is equally obtuse, and a couple other people have been tunneling on crap reasons too. Don't think all of them can be scum

[Nocmen]

@SC: I asked you to explain how you can understand him and see his point on things.

Yup CoolDog is scum this game.
Driving a over and over on something that has already been responded and acting like he's pushing a case.

yawn.

I don't know, ank's response is equally obtuse, and a couple other people have been tunneling on crap reasons too. Don't think all of them can be scum

Like who?

Mainly the Stevie/Kiwi stuff.

I'm curious about cooldog, I greatly dislike the vote he made now, but I agree with him on the Ank case. I need to go look more into it to decide the chances of it being cooldog bussing his partner.

[Nocmen]

Limited Posting for next 48-72 hours, skyrim >_>

[Nocmen]

The case against her is not that she disagrees with me. The case is that she is using this disagreemen in mafia theory to push a case against me. Do you really think a case "Well, his case in FREAKING page 1 is full of null reasons" is a good case?

No, I'm not saying that it's a good case, but I'm saying that the same can be said for the reasons you find it scummy

Thats what Im doing. I also said that people who have bad attacks on them and defend themselves are town. I dont see what point are you trying to make here?

Because I'm mainly curious as to why your reads seemed so strong this early.

[Nocmen]

Shadow dancer - Scum points out the jump for letting dice tags make your RVS vote for you. if you get caught in RVS your vote would be put under more scutiny, so my logic dictates that in order to avoid this you just let a random picker do it for you so that way you seem inno to people hunting scum in RVS. - scum points for getting rid of it though but they come back for voting RBT. more on this further down in this post. i get lurker vibes here too but his ISO is to short to tell and we are just on page ten so keeping that in the back of my head for now. I agree with the reasoning behind the steve vote but i think he's town somewhat (having not gotten to him yet this could change.) annnd nothing else.

Null. But it's moving back upwards into town zone. i need a good post from you too.

I still personally as part of my own play, don't see dice tags in RVS as a tell at all, especially in this case when SD just changed it immediately anyways. Though that can possibly be seen as trying to get a bit more content/increased post count so he would have less of a chance of being seen as a lurker. I agree this is something to keep note of, it seems like SD is coming right on the edge of being lurky, but only because...nevermind, no. Definitely lurky. Hell, I'd even call it more lurker than vezok, because vezok actually made a content post for once.

Nocmen - So much town it hurts. Do you still like your ank vote? and i wish you'd stop asking question like every post. it makes your reads feel like they could change if someone even sneezes on them. on the topic how rigid are your reads?

Yes, I still feel good about Ank as scum. As for rigidness of reads, I find it hard to get many strong early reads. I have a few though, such as Farside as town, Ank as scum, and hell, I'm even going with vezok as town too because I sense a distinct town effort from his post than I have in previous games with him. Two other scum reads, as I mentioned, were SC and Stevie, which I'll get to as you bring them up. The rest are close to null, though a few have things that lean them in one direction (eg cooldog leaning scum). And finally, as for questions, that's just how I get a lot of opinions early on. Or ask stupid things that have been explained 12414 times until the scum self-hammer themselves from my annoyance (I wish).

Stevie model T-92 Terminatior unit (Yes that joke was nessesary) - I guess I get the vote on me then. I legitematly thought (still think somewhat) that the question the mask asked about norman's role was entirely too suspect to let alone, especially that early, more on this later. but 142 sits off. just because you didn't think it was rolefishing means if someone else thinks is rolefishing it scummy? what? post after you did say paraphrased "everyone thinks colldog is scummy so i'll vote him" you never question why. Kiwi has a legit concern here and I want a answer. you thought I was scummy but what i get from that is that you didn't think Cooldog was entirely scummy. So you switch votes? am i still scummy to you?

Null-scum: heading south. I need you to answer my questions.

While I think Stevie scummy because of the way he acted towards the masons, I also agree with him on cooldog, as I see cooldog as something that is null-scum. But seconding (or thriding i guess) that Stevie needs to answer. This isn't the first time I've had to do this.

Ank I think you're town. you have content you activly partake in discussion. but you voted for the easy wagon starting off. that doesn't sit too well with me and i'd like you to explain your reasoning further. but still--

town. but heading south unless i see a explaination.

This is something that is offputting to me, but I think mainly because ank is my strongest scum read right now. Can you analyze more of why Ank's content is active discussion?

strangerCoug - How can someone so town seem so wrong? You're asking question and unlike Nocmen you are focusing more on solidifying your stance. i wish i could say more but there is something that puzzles me about you. I just can't put my finger on it.

I dislike this, where you call it puzzling yet don't have many too much examples of ideal reasons this is why.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------End of kcda's Player-by-player
I like NS's case on Stevie. I'd like to see more of that NS, preferrably for some town reads, just as a means of comparison.

Kiwi - Really? You're going to try and base a tell on kcda just from asking why he had 3 and 3 scum/town listed? Could you drill him on anything more meaningless? I know you've made other points to him, but that really just seems....unneccessary.

Cooldog: If not for meta, then what would you do, for example, with vezok and RBT? Without meta, why would you keep players like that around, if you only look at the current game? Oh, and even with stuff where you just mentioned in your newest post that this is how vezok plays - isn't that a meta call?

third post without content... This is what I am talking about "a lot of noise". Also, no explanation of that fos.
hops on wagon after lurking around a bit, noc comes in here and votes a guy without posting any content. Not even trying to contribute to the game.
Just a second What are your reads? I can pin anything on you at all. And I'm not talking about bad stuff, I'm talking about good stuff... You haven't

done

anything up to this point.

While I know that I havent given the most effort this game, how would you compare me to RBT right now? And how does that third link have anything to do with me?

Also, it just seems a bit too convient that some of the things you see scummy and call people out on, they've answered, but you just haven't gotten to yet. Just seems like a lot of that post you made could be used to fuel bad cases.

I'm beginning to think that cooldog now is more scummy than SC.

Unvote, Vote: Stevie

, let's pressure him for some good reads/answers from him please?

[Nocmen]

Stevie, what other reads do you have? You've focused on almost no one except cooldog and kcda the entire game. I don't care if they are scum or town reads, but I want more from you.

Deas is nothing spectuacular either.

[Nocmen]

Unvote, Vote: Cooldog

, pending two things I want to see in his posts finishing his analysis.

Not liking much from SD's posts either.

Right now I'd put my list at:
Cooldog
Ank/Deas
SC
Stevie
and then SD as a leaner.

[Nocmen]

Who are the scum RBT?

[Nocmen]

Vote: Stevie

, back to my top suspicions, but I'm a bit unsure with the SC/Deus interactions anymore. It makes SC look townie, but at the same time, I just don't want to agree and start a wagon with SC.

[Nocmen]

I do, but right now I'm trying to decide what SC's vote means

[Nocmen]

Unvote, Vote: StrangerCoug

As much as I dislike Stevie/Deus, the more I read into SC, the more the case/vote seems forced.

[Nocmen]

Let's take a look at SC's interactions with Ank/Deus.

First mention of Ank in SC's posts, and this is SC's 14th post in the game. Also where the vote occurs on Ank. Votes for "not defending himself". This is after 3 votes on Ank, with several people pushing Ank for questions to answers.

We then don't hear anything about Ank from SC for a few pages, where SC's reply to Ank's vote on CD is

OMGUS is not going to win you any friends. Sorry.

What I find scummy about this is that this is the same reply I would make when trying to bus a partner, saying little jabs like that.

That's all SC has with Ank. Now after Deus replaces in, SC attacks for the same thing (not defending the cases that others are putting on him).

Then, SC seems satisfied with Deus' answer in 449, and hammers CD. Followed by a sudden vote back on Deus as Day 2 starts.

The timing of the votes, as well as the way SC becomes satisfied with DV and then votes back immeidately just doesn't go as town votes to me. I don't know if its bussing a partner or not, but it's definitely a scum vote.

[Nocmen]

FoS Stevie

@Fishy, I still get the feeling that he's scum for some reason and I'm not liking how quickly this SC wagon has formed.

I still suspect SC most though.

UNVOTE: Nocmen

VOTE: StrangerCoug

Hell, even I'm concerned by how fast this wagon formed too.

[Nocmen]

FoS Stevie

@Fishy, I still get the feeling that he's scum for some reason and I'm not liking how quickly this SC wagon has formed.

I still suspect SC most though.

UNVOTE: Nocmen

VOTE: StrangerCoug

Hell, even I'm concerned by how fast this wagon formed too.

Why use the "even" here? Why would you be less likely to be concerned?

Even as in even though I made the case on SC and keep pushing it, I am concerned by the fact that with people jumping on it so fast, I think there is at least one scum in that mix of people jumping on.

[Nocmen]

@fishy I wanted to see how nocmen/SC/anyone else would react to it I guess. After it, you seem more town and Stevie seems more scummy.

How does Stevie's reaction make him more scummy?

Simple: it's a scumtell. I don't count it as OMGUS if you present a legitimate counter-case, but there is none.

Yet, did you see the Cooldog case at that time? You did eventually, with how the day ended, but yet you're so eager to criticize him at this point for that vote?

[Nocmen]

4.)

Nobody Special, on Day One your vote remained on StevieT92 (and you even seemed to make a “case” on him in Post 258), but despite not mentioning Ankamius in any of your posts, you immediately voted DeasVail in Post 292 when he replaced in, and then you put CooLDoG at L-1 (who you had also never expressed suspicion of). You did this without ever trying to push your supposed top suspect, StevieT92. Why?

DeasVail, upon replacing in, acted scummy enough to deserve my vote. On my re-read, I decided CoolDog was the lynch to work for.

These two shining examples of scumminess far outshine Stevie, who, while less luminous, is still in my notes to be watched.

I simply cannot answer any better than that.

Yet...what about SC, when SC did the exact similar? If that's part of the reason you vote SC now, why shouldn't we use that same case against you?

Which then brings me to SC: Is there other examples from NS that have a case which is unlike one that could have the same reasoning on you?

[Nocmen]

I don't like the NS wagon. I think we need to look somewhere else. I'm in approval of kiwi for this, but I'm intending to read SC again soon.

Please, explain why you don't like it. Because right now, I'm fine with it.

Unvote, Vote: Nobody Special

[Nocmen]

I don't really get the NS wagon to be honest, unless it's "NS is anti-town. LYNCH HIM!" -In this case I totally get it.

I want to hear his answers to a few questions. If he comes in and says that he doesn't want to reply to them, as I understood from his last post, I'll pressure him to.

[Nocmen]

Unvote, Vote: SC

Back to this for now. Just got in after an 8 hour drive, skimmed over the posts, looking into kiwi wagon now - not liking it.

[Nocmen]

While the evidence does make me believe NS's claim, I'm still dissatisfied with his play and refusal to answer questions, as well as the result. I'm able to take the claim, but I want to take the result on Stevie with a grain of salt. I don't like how his attack on scooby/kiwi shifted towards kiwi suddenly with the wagon appearing. Also very little content in detail.

That's my main issue with the wagon on kiwi, I see Stevie as a good bussing with kiwi because of the attacks on each other make sense in a bussing perspective. I would like to see one of them lynched very soon. But...

At the same time, vezok again is disturbing me. Another vote that makes sense only as a wagon perspective. First mention of kiwi in his posts is a vote?

Unvote, Vote: Vezok

[Nocmen]

I'm able to take the claim, but I want to take the result on Stevie with a grain of salt.

Why?

Nothing with regards to the claim, I just see kiwi/Stevie interactions as being bussing more than anything. However, I will not vote for Stevie today with the result on him. If kiwi flips scum, I'll be even more suspicious of him, but if he flips town, I'll feel a bit more comfortable with Stevie. I'm slightly okay with a kiwi lynch as a last minute effort, but I'd much prefer to see SC/vezok go today.