Secret Society Mafia - Game Over

[Magua]

Rules Amendment: New Rule II.9:
If a Day starts with a single Town player and a single anti-Town player, the Town player will be endgamed.

[BBmolla]

I think DF is more likely scum than Sorgster atm. A lot of Sorg's posts read as genuine to me, especially near his possible lynch. DF's posts seem to be him trying to just blend in with the town.

VOTE: Dry-Fit

[The Fonz]

^^

Kinda scummy. It's the start of day, why are those your only options?

[Otolia]

Alright folks, I have 2 suspects and one of them has to be lynched today. In order of scumminess, I present you :

1.

Dry-Fit

: His play at the last moment of D4 was bad, and more than that i was scummy. As I said previously, I was reluctant to paint him as scum because he was targeted me. My D1 play was less than stellar and though I become more confident as the game progress I doubt Dry-Fit would know that since he never played with me. So I was trying to look for a scum reason to target me and there was none that I could think of. Nevertheless now that the Werewolves is at 0 (or 1) player, it's becoming more and more likely that the scum team would try to gain town-credit by forcing a mislynch that would backfire on one of them. That one appears to be Dry-Fit. So if Dry-Fit is scum there will be other scum on his wagon - I am looking at Global Warming now.

@Dry-Fit

: What makes you think I am scummy and worthy of a lynch ? Please be convincing.

2.

BBMolla

: When you are in a neighborhood with someone you have the possibility to obtain information that the rest of the town cannot. Among BBmolla, David Xanatos and Alabaska none of them could be werewolves, however and that's a bit of metagaming, a scum was likely to be there. Considering both of the other have been lynched or died, it leaves us with a very suspect BBmolla.

Spoiler: Some of the most interesting post made by BBmolla

I believe if there's scum in my society it's DavidX.

Shall I claim my role? Because I'm having a hard time believing the roleblock at the moment.

@Ghostlin:
Yes.

As a side note, I was the inducter n1, meaning I could not use my actual role that night.

Not claiming for now.

I'm having issues talking about it without claiming my role. I don't know if I was roleblocked and have no way to confirm either way.

To be quite honest, atm I don't think Max is scum.

Think about it logically guys, how many of you had a legit town read on me? Why would a scum roleblocker block me over someone much townier?

That doesn't make much sense.

I said I doubted the roleblock at first and have reasoning, but now it's possible but I have no way of knowing.

VOTE: David X

In my opinion, this is a better lynch guys. I think me and Max are both town.

We recruited new members into it N2, and the two new members allowed us to use another ability N3 that I won't reveal unless I see it being relevent.

Quick question here.

I have a theory in regards to this.

Alabaska J, Vanilla Townie, was killed Night 3.

I think there is a possibility that either the mafia or the werewolves are trying to get rid of the now confirmed non-wolves. Most likely the werewolves, as mafia could still attempt to pin the non-wolves as mafia.

I think we should lynch David X, but regardless of his flip I'm probably dead tonight anyway :/

VOTE: DavidX

What you can say for those posts, is that he used his claim to get out of the lynch and at the same time voted for David Xanatos. Unless you are certain your partner is scum, it is very dangerous to lynch someone in your society because it limits the power you can have. But that's unless you have as scum a solution to control the society. That's why we need to clear the

@BBmolla

: Claim your full role (not the society one) with the actions you performed all the nights whether or not you were roleblocked (not the society ones).

@Another member of the society

: Confirmed that you are currently in the society with him. If you are two, I let you decide if you should claim or not as it has implications I am not able to see fully.

@Others members of the town

: Don't try to stir things up. If you disagree with me, present the flaws or the plan (there are some that I have considered) but do not attempt to protect BBmolla from claiming.

I also had sorgster as scummy too but I feel I'm on a better trail with both of the person above.

[BBmolla]

I can't "control the society" due to the lack of scum lynches I've been on, my other members can attest to that.

I'd much rather not claim, but if someone seconds the request I suppose I will.

@Fonz: I'll be doing a closer look at the players in general after I get home today.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin: Do you find Stefan's being on every lynch scummier than Wraith's being on every lynch except the scum one?

Probably not. Although Wraith in general, to me, has read many flavors of scum.

[PeregrineV]

@peregrineV, oversoul was one of the main pushers of my wagon and helped start the wagon on me on day 2 and 3.

Good point.

So you mean to say you really don't check to see if you are hammered, or what the votes are against you?

[Ghostlin]

@BBmolla : Claim your full role (not the society one) with the actions you performed all the nights whether or not you were roleblocked (not the society ones).

No one really wants to hang him him today, having not gained a single vote, and he's not at L-1. We're not at a situation where fullclaim would be useful. Granted, birds should be all over him with the breadcrumbs he's left, but I'll oppose any mention of silliness of anyone who's not on the block full claiming at this point.

[PeregrineV]

Also, I'm somewhat concerned by the fact that a) BBM has survived multiple nights after softclaiming power and b) Whispersilk didn't really contribute at all yesterday. Not exactly her fault, but I don't want this to be another game where there's a slot in lylo that's barely done anything.

Adding to what you said Fonz I think it's weird that GW and Toasty haven't been killed either.

Adding to this, I would like to know why theFonz is concerned about BBMolla and softclaiming while not mentioning any concern for TotastyToast or Global Warming.

[Ghostlin]

And bringing this up only after Ghostlin tagged Yos as a scum candidate, having not mentioned Yos before (which if 'He's been scummy' you'd have thought you'd have done). It seems to me like scum have probably been prioritising crosskills.

Do you think I'm scummy, because this sentence read really weird on a second read through.

[sorgster]

@peregrineV, oversoul was one of the main pushers of my wagon and helped start the wagon on me on day 2 and 3.

Good point.

So you mean to say you really don't check to see if you are hammered, or what the votes are against you?

I did check and I guess I miscounted or something.

[ToastyToast]

@Otolia: waitwut? why does someone have to confirm BBmolla as a part of the SS if he already is a confirmed part of it via previous days? Isn't it better to keep the other members, well, secret?

The major flaw to your "plan" is that it could be giving scum more information than they need. If BBmolla is scum, then they probably already know this info. If he isn't, you'd be outing a secret society and (possibly) an important PR. BBmolla should only claim if he is at L-1/about to be lynched.

As for Peregrine's question, I'd like to know the answer too. By that logic myself, GW, Ghostlin (less so given he claimed a one-shot) should all be dead. So, if your suspicion of BBmolla is on the fact that he isn't dead, then you should be suspecting all of us too.

Both Otolia and fonz are making me doubt my BB scum-read for the above. Otolia keeps tryin to fish out information and Fonz keeps trying to find his own reason to hop on the BBmolla train.

[The Fonz]

Adding to this, I would like to know why theFonz is concerned about BBMolla and softclaiming while not mentioning any concern for TotastyToast or Global Warming.

Completely different situations.

GlobalWarming has claimed to be a miller. It has also claimed specific role info, namely, Max being a werewolf, which may or may not be a society ability. Their information was proven to be correct.

ToastyToast has claimed that he had information confirming Max to be a roleblocker. Again, may or may not be an SS ability.

BBM has claimed to have some kind of role, where he doesn't know whether he was roleblocked or not. He is also the sole surviving original member of his society, which means that if there were mafia in the founders, it's him. He's also confirmed that it is an individual ability.

So with both the first two, we don't know for sure whether they as individuals are power roles, and this ambiguity is useful to town - scum doesn't know for sure that they aren't merely miller/VT respectively, and shared soc information. Scum DOES know this about BBM if he is not scum, but have nonetheless not chosen to shoot him. Now, it may be they think he's lynchable, sure. But I don't see any additional harm, if he's town, in scum knowing he's a SPECIFIC power role, over just knowing he's a power role in general. He's not a cop (cops know if they're RBed) and since we've lost a doc, he's very unlikely to be that, either. There is harm if he is town, and dies unclaimed, that we will create additional 'grey area' for scum to fit their fakeclaims into. There is harm, if he's scum, in allowing him longer to formulate a fakeclaim, waiting to see who else flips what. There is potential help if he's town that he might claim something falsifiable, therefore strengthening his claim.

[StefanB]

About BBMolla: I don't need a claim, because I think I know what he will claim. While SS mean that there can be scum in it, there is a chance that there are but I wouldn't be sure that there has to be scum in it. (not with that rules) Also Magua is clever and can play Modwifom with them.
Dry-fit: Why did you find Yos so scummy?

TheFonz: From all the suspects, well Wraith stays scummy, Whisper is very lurky, Dry-fit as scum I should continue thinking about, Sorgster just hurts (no way of knowing if VI or scum) and there is of course the posibility of a player who looks quite town, beeing scum, yes much work.

[The Fonz]

Guys, seriously.

There's a space in The Fonz.

[whispersilk]

I can't believe we're back to lynching sorg again.

I'm really sucking on this site atm. I will buck up and post some reads as soon as I'm better.

[The Fonz]

Dry Fit's actually in the lead. There is obviously a serious current of opinion that wants sorgster dead, though.

[Wraith]

I'm no longer completely convinced BBMolla is scum. Despite this I don't think he should survive until endgame. HOWEVER, BBmolla is not the lynch for today, it should either be Dry-Fit or sorgster. While both are acceptable to me, I prefer the latter.

[Bogre]

Hello Ghostlin, yes I have been on all lynches, why I have no idea.
2 of them I don't mind.
The third David would probably not mind pushing again (if he did not do anythink all game), I am sorry that he was town, yes, did I know? Of course not.
Iceguy I tunneled on, for my own reasons. I am sorry but I thought he was scum.
That's for the reasons why my votes where on this people.

Bogre: Your case on me is that I unvoted Otalia to vote Sage on day 1 right? (Fun fact, 4 of your post later okay 100 gamepost later you voted Sage yourself) and that my reads were weak day 1 and that I had him as one of my suspects for a potential bus on TheJakalope (the other were Maxous and Sorgster I missed Oversoul) and perhaps that I wanted to kill mafia yesterday (and failed)

You don't have any idea why you were on some of the lynches? At the very /least/, that's an irresponsible use of votes.

My thoughts on you is that you're opportunistic, vote-throwing, and don't have any reads or reasoning to support those vote switches and vote placement. Switching votes isn't scummy. IIRC, you were jumping from a building Otalia wagon before it even really gained steam, and stated only a WEAK reason to switch that vote. That's scummy, because its suggests you were afraid of committing to the wagon, or trying to bail from your scumpartner. Your insistence to be on the rest of the lynches past that part might be you trying to rectify.

[Bogre]

[quote="In post 1449
In 4.10, there's an effective tie (DX 7, DF 6 plus my secret vote) which is broken by Bogre switching off Sorgster. Wraith then leaves Dry-Fit to hammer for the sake of getting a hammer (annoyingly, seconds before I was going to post my big rebuttal to ConSpiracy et al).

So if there's any actual movement to ensure it's DX and not DF who swings, it's Sorgster or Bogre, Bogre in particular looking bad if DF flips mafia.[/quote]

Yeah. I hadn't really looked at DF or DX in depth that day much. Summarize the case on DF? I'll look him over, too. Not worried about looking bad, really.

[The Fonz]

Bogre, you just called Stefan scum for 'at best irresponsible use of his vote.' Then in your next post, you admit you broke a tie between two L-2 players without really paying any in-depth attention to either?

[StefanB]

Bogre: Reading the whole postings help.
I know why I voted at the time.
I don't know why people follow me to lynch.
You can call me a votejumper on day 1, I hardly used my vote irresponsible after day 1 (perhabs the vote on Alabaska was weak, thinking about it now)
So which vote of me was irresponsible, the vote for TheJakolope (day 2), Sorgster and Maxous (after the copguilty) or David (normally I get more when I pressure a lurker)
So your whole point is that I shouldn't have trown attention to Sage, but letting my vote on Otalia, where it in my opinion was not doing much good. I freely admit that one of the reasons for this vote was the try to be more helpful for town, instead of sheeping.
So anythink else?
Sorry that's a shorter version, because my internetconnection died without warning.

[Magua]

Vote Count 5.2

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

sorgster (5): Ghostlin, Bogre, PeregrineV, ToastyToast, Wraith
Dry-fit (4): Empking's Alt, The Fonz, Yosarian2, BBmolla
Otolia (2): sorgster, Dry-fit
Wraith (1): StefanB

Not voting (3): whispersilk, Otolia, Global Warming

V/LA: Ghostlin (11/24-11/27)

Deadline is November 28th, at 9:00pm EST.
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-11-28 22:00:00)

[PeregrineV]

Adding to this, I would like to know why theFonz is concerned about BBMolla and softclaiming while not mentioning any concern for TotastyToast or Global Warming.

Completely different situations.

GlobalWarming has claimed to be a miller. It has also claimed specific role info, namely, Max being a werewolf, which may or may not be a society ability. Their information was proven to be correct.

ToastyToast has claimed that he had information confirming Max to be a roleblocker. Again, may or may not be an SS ability.

BBM has claimed to have some kind of role, where he doesn't know whether he was roleblocked or not. He is also the sole surviving original member of his society, which means that if there were mafia in the founders, it's him. He's also confirmed that it is an individual ability.

So with both the first two, we don't know for sure whether they as individuals are power roles, and this ambiguity is useful to town - scum doesn't know for sure that they aren't merely miller/VT respectively, and shared soc information. Scum DOES know this about BBM if he is not scum, but have nonetheless not chosen to shoot him. Now, it may be they think he's lynchable, sure. But I don't see any additional harm, if he's town, in scum knowing he's a SPECIFIC power role, over just knowing he's a power role in general. He's not a cop (cops know if they're RBed) and since we've lost a doc, he's very unlikely to be that, either. There is harm if he is town, and dies unclaimed, that we will create additional 'grey area' for scum to fit their fakeclaims into. There is harm, if he's scum, in allowing him longer to formulate a fakeclaim, waiting to see who else flips what. There is potential help if he's town that he might claim something falsifiable, therefore strengthening his claim.

So, since scum hasn't bothered with Toasty or Global, since they're "abilities" may or may not be Secret Society related, scum should believe whatever BBMolla says, instead of assuming his is exactly like Toasty's or Global's ability (eg, may or may not be Secret Society related)?


Maybe they don't have to guess, since they probably have members inside of those players secret societies, so know exactly where those powers came from. That would be the results of my speculation about the whole thing.

[Ghostlin]

Vote:Dry-fit

We should have lynched this guy yesterday. I really have no idea why we lynched David X instead, unless that was a scum-driven counterwagon to protect Dry Fit.

Who is the scum driving DF's wagon and why? You can't just make a statement like that and expect us to all on the DF wagon.

Vote: sorgster

I'd really, really, really like to see this scumbag hang today, please.

...And your vote makes me question why I'm on this wagon. Fonz--if you're wondering about my Wraith read, it's posts like this.

Vote: Otolia

.

Can't believe this guy is still alive.

My second suspect is yos.

I would expect him to have been killed by now if he was town and he's been scummy anyways.

Adding to what you said Fonz I think it's weird that GW and Toasty haven't been killed either.

What's your case on Otolia? How do you feel about Sorgster? The bolded is WIFOM, and horrible WIFOM at that.

You're an acceptable lynch today from what I've seen so far. You've not posted anything that's given me a reaction either way.