Mini 380: Artifacts- Game over

[ShadowLurker]

Ok, I have just reread the game. Here are my thoughts right now:

For most of the game, all we have seen is a Coron vs. Nai argument. From what I could gather, Jules seemed to be a big part of it at the beginning but most of his posts disappeared in the crash, is that correct? People have been taking sides on Coron and Nai, which is why I find the recent vote count highly odd for the behavior of this game:

Nai- 2 (Coron, Jules)
Jules- 2 (CrashTextDummie, Stewie)
Coron- 2 (Nai, lunalovegood)
CrashTextDummie- 1 (Nightfall)
lunalovegood- 1 (HackerHuck)

Nightfall: Why is your vote on CTD?
HH: Why is your vote on luna?

Jules seems to still have things to clear up from like page 3 or 4 which is unacceptable.


I received a similar read on both sides of the Coron vs. Nai camp, found serious flaws and things that I could not agree with in both of their arguments. However, we can't have all of those people be scum, and I doubt a staged argument could last as long as it has so I am starting to think that both of those are town and am more suspicious of the people who have joined their one of their camps but aren't really taking a hard stance on this.

I found Zindaras' constant pursuance of the person I replaced, lunalovegood, extremely odd throughout the whole game especially with this argument going on. I have some theories but all I will say on this subject right now is:

Zindaras: What is your opinion on the Coron vs. Nai debate?

[ShadowLurker]

EBWOP: For now, I'll

FoS: Jules

[Nightfall]

I was really voting Conflux, not CTD.
I was voting Conflux because he seemed to be willing to come by and say hi, but still contribute nothing. To me he seemed intent on trying to lurk his way through.
Now that CTD is here my vote can go. Assuming he posts more often.

unvote

But because of Conflux I have to say I feal a little guarded about whatever CTD's role is.

[HackerHuck]

HH: Why is your vote on luna?

Jules seems to still have things to clear up from like page 3 or 4 which is unacceptable.


I received a similar read on both sides of the Coron vs. Nai camp, found serious flaws and things that I could not agree with in both of their arguments. However, we can't have all of those people be scum, and I doubt a staged argument could last as long as it has so I am starting to think that both of those are town and am more suspicious of the people who have joined their one of their camps but aren't really taking a hard stance on this.

I found Zindaras' constant pursuance of the person I replaced, lunalovegood, extremely odd throughout the whole game especially with this argument going on. I have some theories but all I will say on this subject right now is:

Zindaras: What is your opinion on the Coron vs. Nai debate?

I voted for Luna because of this post, which put Coron at lynch-1.

Lol. Anyway

unvote, vote Coron

because he seems to be acting a bit scummy and too sure of himself.

The overall case against Coron was

incredibly

weak at that point. She made things worse with her explanation of why - both in post 43 and in post 51. In post 51, she mentions that she didn't know Coron would be at lynch-1 with her vote, but in post 42 (1 hour before her vote in post 43) I asked why Coron was at lynch-2. I felt her reasoning was pretty soft for putting someone one vote from lynch.

In case you were just wondering why my vote was still on her, it's because I haven't felt anyone else to be scummier. See my post 188 for a brief rundown on how I feel about everyone.

Er, almost everyone. I just noticed that I somehow missed GreenLiquid in that post. I know he's contributed, so I'll try and take a look at his posts and see what I come up with.

Why do you find Zindaras' pursuit of Luna stranger than mine? Although we both had the same idea/suspicion, I placed the first vote on Luna, and I did not unvote.

[Zindaras]

I found Zindaras' constant pursuance of the person I replaced, lunalovegood, extremely odd throughout the whole game especially with this argument going on. I have some theories but all I will say on this subject right now is:

Zindaras: What is your opinion on the Coron vs. Nai debate?

As I said before, if I have to vote either, I'd vote Nai.

I find it somewhat odd that you focus on my pursual, when I'm not the only one pursueing you..

[Zindaras]

EBWOP: Coron's playing as usual, and the early game wagon which put him at Lynch-1 reeks of scum. I don't think I've seen Nai play like this in any other game.

An interesting thing to note, by the way, is that in Space Monkey Mafia, an early bandwagon also showed up, and the person who put the guy at Lynch-1 and then tried to slip back into lurkerdom also was scum.

[Stewie]

oh yes actually I remember something I had seen in a reread.
In Nai's fourth post this appears:

My main argument is that he's far too sure of himself, and I really don't see, in any way, how he can be like that. I mean, I can see how it would be a joke to begin with that he calls me and Nightfall scum buddies (me included ONLY because Nightfall voted for me), but he hasn't let it go.

That suggests to me that he has some sort of outside information here.

And there's no way he would have given an item so broken as to say "You have a one-shot chance to find a scum and all his buddies", or any such thing. To hold onto a belief is playing like Fritzler, and I find that Fritz is often wrong. So...

Bolding mine.
So, why would she think I have outside information? Guilty concience much?
Also, I don't see why it would be out of the question for me to have been cop/tracker/whatever, and trying to get reactions from people in conjunction with my result. Even without it I don't see how it's at all out of the question for me to be trying to get reactions.
Basically the idea is this: I threw out a completely oddball theory, acted sure of myself and saw how people reacted. Nai reacted EXACTLY like RUH ROH THIS GUY KNOWS SOMETHING BETTER GET RID OF HIM.
Of course you're free to have your own opinions on this, but yeah.

A few notes:
1. I find it perfectly reasonable to assume that you have some sort of information. If, for no apparent reason, you are sure Nai is scum, then it follows that you have some extra information (either that or you are nuts ). Cop sounds unlikely because, as Nai explained in the very same post you quoted, you didn't just say that Nai was scum, but that Nightfall was scum with him. Furthermore, given that being so confident with no apparent reason, and that it follows that you have extra information, it would not be a smart thing for a cop/tracker/whatever to let the scum know, because scum like to get rid of anyone with any extra information, other than themselves.

Ok, I guess it was one big point.

1. I find it unreasonable to assume I had some sort of information or especially information on more than one other person.
A. If I had info on more than one person, I'd just make the game about half over right now by claiming that info.
B. If I were scum or cop I wouldn't nessisarily want to out myself by doing something I wouldn't normally do(see: other games where Coron has done this)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2793 - Technically I was cop, but I didn't have a result. Guy turned up scum.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2498 - Doctor, guy didn't turn up scum but wouldn't have been a bad lynch anyway...
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2363 - Nurse, guy was town.
I'm sure there are more examples all over, but these were the ones I could remember to look up.
2. As tracker/Cop/whatever one might press for info THEN claim, before the day is over so they can get any possible protection from doctors.

For A, you might have some reason for not claiming said info. For B, I have no intentions of reading old games to see how you usually play, because I don't have the time nor memory. Besides, you might be playing differently. You say that you would not act differently as to not atttract attention to yourself. Who said you were doing this on a concious level
(ie: on purpose)? If you wouldn't act differently than usual if you are a cop or scum, why would you act differently if you were not cop or scum?
Also, even if I were to give all these arguments your way, you still don't explain why you acted a certain way, ei: why you acted as if you

knew

that both Nightfall and Nai were scum when, without outside information, you couldn't have possibly known.

[Zindaras]

I remember that Coron replaced me in Goats because of my vacation, and he nearly got the role lynched, even though it was a Doc. I'm not sure about his playstyle that game, though.

[Coron]

Oh, come on. It would be impossible to be THAT much like that without thinking about it conciously. I would act differently as cop or scum the same way. The idea is that it DOESN'T mean ANYTHING that I do that. Actually off hand I can not remember any instances of me doing this as scum in forum mafia, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't or even haven't, that's for sure.

The idea is to generate discussion, often games die in the first 4-5 pages and it's hard to get intrest restored. By making accusations I both jumpstart the game AND get information that will help later in the game. It also allows me to do the same thing as cop without giving away the fact that I am cop.

I believe that for a defense by playstyle you MUST have 2 things: 1) show your track record of doing this thing and 2) be willing and able to defend your playstyle.

I believe that I have now done both of these.

[Zindaras]

Meh, I've done what Coron is saying before. Multiple times, in fact. Always as town. It tends to pay off in the long run.

[ShadowLurker]

HH: Why is your vote on luna?

Jules seems to still have things to clear up from like page 3 or 4 which is unacceptable.


I received a similar read on both sides of the Coron vs. Nai camp, found serious flaws and things that I could not agree with in both of their arguments. However, we can't have all of those people be scum, and I doubt a staged argument could last as long as it has so I am starting to think that both of those are town and am more suspicious of the people who have joined their one of their camps but aren't really taking a hard stance on this.

I found Zindaras' constant pursuance of the person I replaced, lunalovegood, extremely odd throughout the whole game especially with this argument going on. I have some theories but all I will say on this subject right now is:

Zindaras: What is your opinion on the Coron vs. Nai debate?

I voted for Luna because of this post, which put Coron at lynch-1.

Lol. Anyway

unvote, vote Coron

because he seems to be acting a bit scummy and too sure of himself.

The overall case against Coron was

incredibly

weak at that point. She made things worse with her explanation of why - both in post 43 and in post 51. In post 51, she mentions that she didn't know Coron would be at lynch-1 with her vote, but in post 42 (1 hour before her vote in post 43) I asked why Coron was at lynch-2. I felt her reasoning was pretty soft for putting someone one vote from lynch.

In case you were just wondering why my vote was still on her, it's because I haven't felt anyone else to be scummier. See my post 188 for a brief rundown on how I feel about everyone.

Er, almost everyone. I just noticed that I somehow missed GreenLiquid in that post. I know he's contributed, so I'll try and take a look at his posts and see what I come up with.

Why do you find Zindaras' pursuit of Luna stranger than mine? Although we both had the same idea/suspicion, I placed the first vote on Luna, and I did not unvote.

I didn't even notice your constant pursual, I think it was the fact that you were involved in the Coron vs. Nai debate, yet Zindaras seemed to have completely stayed out of it.

[ShadowLurker]

EBWOP: Coron's playing as usual, and the early game wagon which put him at Lynch-1 reeks of scum. I don't think I've seen Nai play like this in any other game.

An interesting thing to note, by the way, is that in Space Monkey Mafia, an early bandwagon also showed up, and the person who put the guy at Lynch-1 and then tried to slip back into lurkerdom also was scum.

Is that supposed to mean something? First of all, I'm pretty sure Space Monkey is still going. Next, I'm not lurking now, and neither was luna, she was just inactive. The very point that me and luna have different actions shows that there are different playstyles so I see no idea why you brought that up in the first place other than to subtly discredit me.

Vote: Zindaras

[Coron]

Mild FoS: SL

[Kelly Chen]

vote: HackerHuck

as the scummiest Coron cheerleader.

[Coron]

Why should you limit your search to my cheerleaders?
Either say he's the scummiest in the game or don't vote for him.

[Kelly Chen]

Do you agree he's one of your cheerleaders?

[Coron]

You call him that.[/bible reference]

[HackerHuck]

I've somehow been relegated to being Coron's cheerleader

Although there must be others if I'm the scummiest!

Who am I scummier than?

[Norinel]

If the mafia makes a night kill, would the town loose the items that the victem started the night with and then could have passed? Or would the town loose whatever item(s) was passed to him that night?

bassically what is the order of the night actions?

Use
pass
kill?

or
kill
use
pass?

In general, all deaths happen before artifacts are passed, so someone who dies in the night will lose the artifacts they had at the beginning of the night, and anyone who tries to give one or more artifacts to the victim will just keep them. The night is resolved roughly in the order use artifacts, role-based special abilities, pass artifacts.

[Zindaras]

Next, I'm not lurking now, and neither was luna, she was just inactive. The very point that me and luna have different actions shows that there are different playstyles so I see no idea why you brought that up in the first place other than to subtly discredit me.

Vote: Zindaras

Luna's playstyle is comparable to bird's. You would act differently in that situation as well.

Kelly's and SL's actions are only furthering me in my beliefs that they're both scum. I find the HackerHuck vote unsettling, and SL is being overaggressive, in my eyes.

[Jules]

What are you thinking CTD?

Conflux made 7 posts before asking to be replaced, 3 of which were posts made so that it looked like he was active and not lurking

[Kelly Chen]

HackerHuck: Off the top of my head you're scummier than Jules and Zindaras. Though I would love to know what is "unsettling" for Zindaras that I voted you. You'd think I voted someone not in the game or something...

Coron: I didn't get it. I take it that's meant to be a non-answer.

[HackerHuck]

So the cheer squad consists of me, Jules and Zindaras?

ShadowLurker - how do you know that Luna was just inactive and not lurking? The difference is intent and I cannot fathom how you would know Luna's intent.

[Jules]

So you think Coron's scum do you Kelly?

[Kelly Chen]

Yep.

Was this obvious? I find it weird that Coron's response is that I shouldn't restrict myself to his cheerleaders, and nobody wants to argue that HackerHuck isn't a Coron cheerleader.

Jules, no, I am not sold on Coron being scum.