Mini 380: Artifacts- Game over

[Coron]

If Jules is in fact telling the truth, then it wouldn't surprize me if someone had the ear of the diviner.

That's a given, do you mean the mouth of the diviner maybe?

[GreenLiquid]

If Jules is in fact telling the truth, then it wouldn't surprize me if someone had the ear of the diviner.

That's a given, do you mean the mouth of the diviner maybe?

That's kind of what I though too, but if a person does have it, they need to keep their mouth shut (pardon the pun ) for the time being, since it sounds like a pretty powerful ability.

[HackerHuck]

What happened between these two posts? His claim came before the first one.

I see no reason not to lynch this guy.

Unvote

Have to think his claim over.

You need an answer to this question? He claimed an item between those two posts.

FOS: HackerHuck

Can ShadowLurker confirm what the item does? I have some difficulty imagining that scum would start out with an information object. They wouldn't have incentive to pass it around, I don't think.

Wow, he has an item! That made me really believe he might not be scum. Weren't we all given artifacts? I really didn't want to make an assumption about his thought process, so I find it interesting that I get an FOS for asking someone for clarification.

Anyway, from the description, this isn't an information item per se. It allows one to ask a question, but doesn't deliver information to the owner.

Along with Green Liquid, I strongly suggest that if there is a 'mouth' or similar artifact the current owner should keep mum.

[ShadowLurker]

What happened between these two posts? His claim came before the first one.

I see no reason not to lynch this guy.

Unvote

Have to think his claim over.

You need an answer to this question? He claimed an item between those two posts.

FOS: HackerHuck

Can ShadowLurker confirm what the item does? I have some difficulty imagining that scum would start out with an information object. They wouldn't have incentive to pass it around, I don't think.

Wow, he has an item! That made me really believe he might not be scum. Weren't we all given artifacts? I really didn't want to make an assumption about his thought process, so I find it interesting that I get an FOS for asking someone for clarification.

Anyway, from the description, this isn't an information item per se. It allows one to ask a question, but doesn't deliver information to the owner.

Along with Green Liquid, I strongly suggest that if there is a 'mouth' or similar artifact the current owner should keep mum.

It says right in the first post some people don't have artifacts.

Actually, I think the Mouth should claim if there is one. I'd rather know where the answers are coming from rather than assuming they're the truth.

[Nightfall]

Hey guys, finished exams now, but christmas stuff has taken up time too.

I've read what I missed and am ready to post some more.

I DONT think that the person who has the mouth should claim.

I DO however want to bring up an idea.

Some/most/? of us started the night with an artifact. It is my understanding that we were then given a chance to use the artifact and then pass it on. How would people feal about a mass semi claim on the artifacts that we all had at the start. Ie. We would all claim the NAME and ONLY the name of the artifact we had at the start of the previous night, before we had passed it on. That way if anyone does have the mouth, we would at the very least know where it was. Also if any of us end up under the effects of some unknown artifact, we should be able to confirm where it came from. This will also help us to analyze any passing patterns. I played in a game called ROLESWAP mafia were the town did this and it helped considerably. In that game, I was scum and I lost my two partners because someone noticed a trend in our records. One final advantage I can see of this would be that it will let people know where artifacts have been, but wont inform the mafia of where they currently are, so they wont be able to target certain artifacts for nightkills.

Any opinions?

[ShadowLurker]

Hey guys, finished exams now, but christmas stuff has taken up time too.

I've read what I missed and am ready to post some more.

I DONT think that the person who has the mouth should claim.

I DO however want to bring up an idea.

Some/most/? of us started the night with an artifact. It is my understanding that we were then given a chance to use the artifact and then pass it on. How would people feal about a mass semi claim on the artifacts that we all had at the start. Ie. We would all claim the NAME and ONLY the name of the artifact we had at the start of the previous night, before we had passed it on. That way if anyone does have the mouth, we would at the very least know where it was. Also if any of us end up under the effects of some unknown artifact, we should be able to confirm where it came from. This will also help us to analyze any passing patterns. I played in a game called ROLESWAP mafia were the town did this and it helped considerably. In that game, I was scum and I lost my two partners because someone noticed a trend in our records. One final advantage I can see of this would be that it will let people know where artifacts have been, but wont inform the mafia of where they currently are, so they wont be able to target certain artifacts for nightkills.

Any opinions?

Are artifacts one shot? I was under the impression you could use them as much as you wanted to.

There are two problems with this,

1) Let's say someone has a cop artifact or something, mafia can still kill them to get rid of a result and then that artifact may be lost (not sure)
2) People still have roles in this game in addition to artifacts so we might not be able to trace everything.

[Coron]

"This game contains several artifacts (items); I'll explain here how they work in general, but the description of individual artifacts can override this default explanation, though. Unless an artifact's description states otherwise, using it is a night action. If the description starts with

"You may" means each player may use that artifact once

. If it starts with "Once in the game, you may", that's once for the artifact for the entire game; once it's been used, the artifact either becomes useless or disappears."

[Kelly Chen]

Anyway, from the description, this isn't an information item per se. It allows one to ask a question, but doesn't deliver information to the owner.

If it delivers information to anybody, the scum would not want to use it, pass it around, or even admit it exists. It seems there's some potential to use it for misdirection, but then the town would still expect the item to be passed along.

Your question in 368 struck me as an inattentive and/or an attempt to make CTD look suspicious.

[ShadowLurker]

After rereading something I am STRONGLY AGAINST A MASSROLECLAIM and against the Mouth of the Diviner or whatever we may believe to exist to claim.

[Nai]

I'm against this claim as well. There's no reason to do this on day 1. I especially would like the Mouth to stay silent. There's no guarantee the mouth is one 'use', or even how it works. It's like a cop role, and should be silent until there's something to say.

[Zindaras]

I don't see how a mass artifact claim will help us in any way, to be honest.

[HackerHuck]

Hey guys, finished exams now, but christmas stuff has taken up time too.

I've read what I missed and am ready to post some more.

I DONT think that the person who has the mouth should claim.

I DO however want to bring up an idea.

Some/most/? of us started the night with an artifact. It is my understanding that we were then given a chance to use the artifact and then pass it on. How would people feal about a mass semi claim on the artifacts that we all had at the start. Ie. We would all claim the NAME and ONLY the name of the artifact we had at the start of the previous night, before we had passed it on. That way if anyone does have the mouth, we would at the very least know where it was. Also if any of us end up under the effects of some unknown artifact, we should be able to confirm where it came from. This will also help us to analyze any passing patterns. I played in a game called ROLESWAP mafia were the town did this and it helped considerably. In that game, I was scum and I lost my two partners because someone noticed a trend in our records. One final advantage I can see of this would be that it will let people know where artifacts have been, but wont inform the mafia of where they currently are, so they wont be able to target certain artifacts for nightkills.

Any opinions?

I'm quite disappointed you ignored my request for an opinion on the Jules wagon.

Regarding the mass claim, my biggest concern is that the scum would learn the existence of any particularly powerful artifacts. One other thing to consider is that not everyone may have passed their items, so we could be pointing out who currently has an item and putting any information gathered by them at risk. I have only seen one other game with a mass role claim (it worked then) to know whether the benefits would outweight the risks.

Kelly, you do have a point about the information items going to scum, but since you haven't unvoted should we assume that you don't believe Jules' artifact claim?

[Jules]

I don't think it would be wise to have a mass roleclaim yet, especially the mouth of the diviner. We need to remember that the Artifacts can be lost if the person dies

[Kelly Chen]

I do believe he had that artifact. I'm not totally sure I'm right that scum would not have started with that artifact. Does anyone else have comments on that?


As far as mass claim

Usually mass claim works when scum can be expected to have difficulties coming up with a claim, or committing to one early. That doesn't seem like an issue here.

[Nightfall]

Im not overly certain one way or the other regarding Jules right now. I will say that I am leaning more towards scum though. The main reasons for this being 1, how earlier on he seemed to push against Nai during his debate with Coron, which I wasn't wild about in the first place, but he also seemed pretty snippy about it at times. 2, He's claimed that although he doesnt know exactly what it was, he believes that there was something posted pre "wipe out" crash that would back up his thoughts more. While that is believable and reasonably possible, I get the impression that too much of his stance is based on that suspision.

The following quote has me worried to. Stewie mentioned that he couldnt find anything to suport this and neither can I.

When you look back, you will find that the Nai Coron debate did flow from my vote. Not solely my vote but that was one of the factors leading up to it. Before my vote, there was precious little. After my vote, Nai started saying stuff, as did others, which Coron latched on to

To me this seem like he's trying to make us believe that it was his random vote that got the whole thing started, and that his votes were leading the discusion while really he was following alot of it.

[Norinel]

Mod:

Were items assigned independently of alignment?

No comment.

Vote Count:

Jules- 4 (Stewie, Kelly Chen, Zindaras, GreenLiquid)
Nai- 2 (Coron, Jules)
Coron- 1 (Nai)
ShadowLurker- 1 (HackerHuck)
Zindaras- 1 (ShadowLurker)

Not voting (2): CrashTextDummie, Nightfall

6 to lynch

[Coron]

The question is not only whether he would get the artifact if he were scum, it was whether he would pass it on. It sort of WIFOMs but, there is a definate tangible advantage to scum from having this not circulate.

[ShadowLurker]

The question is not only whether he would get the artifact if he were scum, it was whether he would pass it on. It sort of WIFOMs but, there is a definate tangible advantage to scum from having this not circulate.

The article MUST be passed on if used.

[Nai]

You mean the Ear? There's no mention of 'must be passed on' in the general rules.

[Coron]

SL, then they simply wouldn't use it.

[Stewie]

If Jules is in fact telling the truth, then it wouldn't surprize me if someone had the ear of the diviner.

That's a given, do you mean the mouth of the diviner maybe?

lol, that's what I meant.

It was hypothetical, however. Now everyone is taking as if there certainly is. However, if there is then I agree that they should not claim they have it. It's quite possible that scum has it anyways.

I'm against the artifact-claim, mainly because there might be something with a name that is a giveaway, ie: if an artifact is called "the drug of the pharmacist" then it would be quite obvious that it has some sort of protecting power.

[HackerHuck]

You mean the Ear? There's no mention of 'must be passed on' in the general rules.

Shadowlurker received the Ear, so would be in a position to know.

The question is not only whether he would get the artifact if he were scum, it was whether he would pass it on. It sort of WIFOMs but, there is a definate tangible advantage to scum from having this not circulate.

Good point again. I see two ways of it being of value for scum to pass it along. If scum has the mouth (and they don't need to pass it), there's not much harm in passing it to the town. That way they would know the answer and the question and then any information that the town asks would go straight to the scum. That's a bit of a stretch and it seems to really favor the scum. The other option which makes some sense to me, is that scum pass it around to each other to get some answers and then hold on to it. I'm not sure if we're trying to outguess the mod here, but this is making me hold back on lynching Jules.

One last thing to consider - it is entirely possible that there is no mouth of the diviner artifact and there is instead a role called the diviner.

[Kelly Chen]

unvote

[ShadowLurker]

Guys, I am currently inclined to think your speculation about Mouth of the Diviner is wrong and you should stop it. Thanks.

That is all.

[Coron]

You mean the Ear? There's no mention of 'must be passed on' in the general rules.

Would you please address this SL