Mini 380: Artifacts- Game over

[Zindaras]

Pretty sure it IS because I have any sort of momentum going on me now, and Jules doesn't.

There is noone with any momentum right now. The reason why I voted Jules as that time because he was the only plausible lynch target who I thought was scummy. Right now, there are no real plausible lynch targets, so I'm going with who I think is scummiest.

[Coron]

Wow, Lot of posts, honestly I didn't read all the way through all of them, but I did notice the mistype discussion thing.
Eh, I type too slow and I think to fast so I forget to put in words or mix up words a lot.
For instance:
From Scenes normal mini 264

2) Saying the town would like to kill a cop or a doc might have been a freudian slip.

While this clearly isn't a fruedian slip(rather it's just plain wrong), it has the same reason.
In case you were wondering I was cop in this game and played fairly well(though lost due to Adele messing up endgame *shakes fist*

AFAIR I have never actually had one of these "slips" as scum.

Time to go back over the rest of those posts.

[Coron]

Ok so nothing really worthwhile happened just a bunch of fluffy worthless posts.

Will do a reread on certain players sometime in the next 2 days hopefully.

[Stewie]

AFAIR I have never actually had one of these "slips" as scum.

AFAIR?

I should also do a reread. Meanwhile, I might as well

unvote

. Once I get a chance to do a reread (I have the time now, just not the energy) I'll place a vote. There's an interesting discussion between SL and HH/Zindaras, so I should be able to pick something out.

[Zindaras]

I should also do a reread. Meanwhile, I might as well

unvote

. Once I get a chance to do a reread (I have the time now, just not the energy) I'll place a vote. There's an interesting discussion between SL and HH/Zindaras, so I should be able to pick something out.

This reeks of "I'm scum and I'm waiting to see which side gets the upper hand so I can choose later".

[GreenLiquid]

AFAIR

As far as I recall

[Nai]

So that everyone is aware, I'm moving over the next few days (yes, including Christmas) and a few days after. If truly needed, I would accept replacement. But, seeing the speed of this game, I don't expect I'll be missing for TOO long.

[CrashTextDummie]

I'm out of touch with this game. It should get better once the holidays are over.

[Kelly Chen]

I'll reread things but I'm pretty sure I still don't trust HH. If you look at HH's comments on Coron it's like too easy to say they're scum together.

Can you give more detail about why you feel this way? I don't see the connection.

Did you look at HH's posts?

Why is coron at lynch -1? I won't say he's not scum, but I haven't seen anyone make an argument against him. We're still on page two here, so I'm quite concerned about all the haste.

Referring to oneself in the third person almost warrants the final lynch vote though...

Although he is acting a bit sure of himself, that's not a good enough reason to put someone on the brink.

Unvote: Nightfall, Vote: lunalovegood

I had made or was going to make a bit of a post about my feelings on both Nai and Coron. Coron’s playstyle makes me lean toward him being scum, but by no means to the extent that everyone else believes.

That said, Luna's still scummier in my book and I'd put Nai almost to her level. Even though I don't like his playstyle here, I think the Coron wagon is a little too weak for the amount of pressure he's getting.

Nai sure likes to imply that Coron has inside knowledge of some kind. FoS: Nai

Coron's defence of Jules was just Coron stating his opinion that it seems to be reasonable behaviour to FOS and then Vote without any new information. I don't agree with that opinion, but it certainly doesn't appear that he's trying to indicate that he's got some kind of inside knowledge.

Coron's behaviour is starting to wear thin. His defence of jules has been noted as has his claim to do a reread of Jules back on post 93.

Your force and craplogic is the suggestion that Coron might have inside information because:
-He defended Jules
-Your words "...you should never defend someone unless you are absolutely sure of their role."

According to this "logic", I must now have inside information about Coron and Stewie must have inside information about you, but you fail to mention that.

You have made an assumption that because someone gave you advice on how you should play, everyone else is playing that same way. In your words - "craplogic".

I'm perfectly willing to admit to defending Coron on this point, but don't twist things around and say I agree with him when I've explicitly stated that I don't.

I still have doubts that Coron is town and that's why it's just an FOS, not a vote.

Coron has been pinging my scumdar a bit, but I chalk it up to his annoying playstyle. I'm not going to say I think he's likely town, but I'm not sure he's scum either.

Note the wishy washy distancing mixed in with the defense. I find it unconvincing, like he wants to be sure we notice he suspects Coron somewhat.

[HackerHuck]

Bingo!

I do want you to be sure and notice I somewhat suspect Coron.

My whole involvement with the Nai/Coron debate is that my "defense" of Coron is not because I think that Coron is town, but because Nai has been using somewhat faulty logic to pursue his case. I have been suspicious of Coron, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to his playstyle. Since I'm having a hard time reading them both, I've basically put these two on the back burner and directing my sights elsewhere.

[Kelly Chen]

I do want you to be sure and notice I somewhat suspect Coron.

I did notice that you want this.

[Norinel]

Vote Count:

Nai- 2 (Coron, Jules)
Coron- 2 (Nai, Kelly Chen)
ShadowLurker- 2 (HackerHuck, Zindaras)
HackerHuck- 1 (ShadowLurker)
Jules- 1 (GreenLiquid)

Not voting (3): CrashTextDummie, Nightfall, Stewie

6 to lynch

[Jules]

Pretty sure it IS because I have any sort of momentum going on me now, and Jules doesn't.

There is noone with any momentum right now. The reason why I voted Jules as that time because he was the only plausible lynch target who I thought was scummy. Right now, there are no real plausible lynch targets, so I'm going with who I think is scummiest.

But the thing is, you had been saying all game you didn't think I looked scummy. Then suddenly, Post 303, "I'll do a reread to see Jules scumminess", you quote my first 5 posts for some reason, you change your mind about me and put your vote on to put me to -2

BTW what are your views on Nai and Coron?

[Kelly Chen]

BTW what are your views on Nai and Coron?

You didn't ask me, but: Nai is town and Coron is claimed scum.

[Coron]

LA until Sunday/monday.

[Norinel]

Looks like we'll be in for a mass prod come New Year's?

[GreenLiquid]

Yeah, we do need a lot more activity.

Unvote: Jules

for a reread.

[GreenLiquid]

As I reread, here's some strikes I noticed against various people.

First, Coron's 'slip' (post 21):

I got all three scum voting me this quick? Man I'm good.

On it's own, I really wouldn't have cared. But what strikes me as odd is that coron posts to defend himself twice, which seems like a hasty effort to get the heat off of him, in posts 23 & 24:

What I meant was all three mafia, my bad. In a mini it is usually fairly safe to assume 3 mafia, though there are some corner cases that have 2 sets of 2 or mountainous with just 2.

Guys, what's taking you so long we have all 3 mafia caught you just need to vote them.

I find this a bit forgivable, though, as there's about 8 or 9 hours between them. I find it as perhaps an act to defend himself while he still has momentum (in other words, nobody's responded yet). Still suspicious, though.

Here's the first of many things Jules does that I find suspicious (post 30):

Ha bad mistake coron, baaaaaaaad mistake

unvote nai, vote coron

This is the FOURTH vote on Coron, a mere 6 posts from his latest transgression, over a minor freudan slip and hasty defense. Although I agree that Coron's actions were scummy, they were nowhere near as much to deserve this.

Let's now skip back to post 19, where perfect62834 says this:

Vote:Coron

for above mentioned reasons.

Umm, excuse me, WHAT here? Note that this is prior to the 'slip,' and is also the third vote on Coron. I encourage everyone to take a look back there and try to figure out what exactly he's agreeing with. Unfortunately, he's been replaced so he can't be questioned on that, but I find that his replacement should still be held accountable for this rabid move.

FOS: Kelly

On post 36 he unvotes, saying:

oops, I read something incorrectly. unvoteI'm going to hold off my serious vote for now.

Read something incorrectly? Oh, I see, you mistook 'Random Vote: Coron' for 'I'm a cop and Coron's guilty.' I don't see that happening. IN ADDITION, note that this is after Coron's slip, so there's actually something to be suspicious of now. This looks so much like a desperate attempt to avoid looking scummy it's not even funny. I respond with an FOS in the next post, but he doesn't explain himself. Nightfall requests clarification in the post after mine.

Post #44 is by Nai:

I think Coron should probably start claiming right about now.

Before I respond to this,

NAI

: is this post a joke?

Let's return to post 43, where luna (who has been replaced by SL) places the fifth (yes, I said fifth) vote on Coron:

Lol. Anyway unvote, vote Coron because he seems to be acting a bit scummy and too sure of himself.

This is just sad if luna is in fact town. I'll place the 5th vote because he's acting a bit scummy, and

is too sure of himself

? That is the worst logic for a lynch -1 vote I've seen in a long time. No clarification, no nothing? Just that he's

a bit

scummy? What's worse, these arguments are copied by Nai later, practically word-for-word. SL probably can't explain why luna did this, but as I said before is still held accountable.

SL:

can you think of any reason luna might have done this? (if it has to do with a power role or artifact though, don't say anything about it)

That wraps up page two. I'll continue this summary over the next few days. Out of these pages, Luna (SL) and Perfect (Kelly) come off as very suspicious, with Coron being slightly suspicious.

[GreenLiquid]

One other thing I thought to add before stopping my reread for the time being. It has to do with perfect's accusitory post (#30). Back when I was a newbie, a lot of times when I tried to put suspicion one someone as scum, I noticed quite a few things about the tone of my posts, one of which was that I came off as kind of 'lecturer-ish' or mockingly, if you catch my drift. And I'm not sure if it's just me, but the way he says 'baaaaaaaad mistake' really hits my scumdar in a bad way.

[GreenLiquid]

Whoops, replace 'perfect' in the second sentence with 'Jules.'

[Kelly Chen]

Regarding Coron, what I'm talking about is 417's "I of course know I'm scum." That, and the fact that Coron hasn't struck me as so helpful he's more likely to be town.

I agree with your last comment on Jules' vote.

I can easily see luna as scum, although her posts

after

she voted Coron strike me as ok, as do ShadowLurker's posts. Also, assuming Coron is scum, luna as his scum partner seems unlikely.

I'm not sure what I can say about perfect. He was probably skimming, but he might've also been confused by the jokey page 1 voting. I couldn't really blame a newb for assuming something substantial was being discussed.

[GreenLiquid]

Regarding Coron, what I'm talking about is 417's "I of course know I'm scum." That, and the fact that Coron hasn't struck me as so helpful he's more likely to be town.

If this is the case, why are you voting for him?

[GreenLiquid]

Wait a sec... can you rephrase that sentence On the first readthrough I saw it as he was likely to be town, but now that doesn't seem right.

[ShadowLurker]

SL:

can you think of any reason luna might have done this?

I'm not going to comment on whether it might've been role related or not but I'm going to comment as if it wasn't regardless of whether it is or not.

To me, it just seems like newbieness to me and with those posts, I have a hard time distinguishing from town or scum as frankly, experienced town AND experienced scum would NOT do it. Therefore, it's a newbie mistake in my opinion and not a scum or town tell. This is why I found Zindaras' constantly pushing on luna over those pages suspicious because luna was not around to defend herself and it seemed obvious to me it was just a newbie mistake and not a town or scum tell.

I got introduced to mafia on another site and everybody there are newbies. Almost all they do is bandwagon as to not draw suspicion to themselves and it's a null tell there as well.

I would also like to point you to this game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4037 where luna was town and look at some of the posts she made:

"I've been sick, and people seem to think I'm lurking. I'm sorry I can't control when I'm in bed and am barely able to get up because I feel like crap. And Klebian, what was I supposed to say in response to your vote? It was a joke vote, and yet it seems that I'm scummy because I didn't get mad because of it?"
"For all previously mentioned reasons unvote, vote: ShadowLurker" (note: There was NO case against me seeing I was the Cop and I was put at -1 from this bandwagon)

so I think any pushing on luna for that post is a bit ridiculous.

[Kelly Chen]

Sorry, try inserting "that" between the words "helpful" and "he's". Coron is a reasonable guess at scum even without him accidentally claiming it.

That said, I'm not sure anyone has been so helpful that I wouldn't find a scum claim slip from them very alarming.