Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

[Glork]

Vote: DrippingGoofball

This is a Rat Shaman:



This is a Fictional Cat:

I think that poor kid getting attacked would disagree with the fact that Phantom Cat is fictional.

[Glork]

That kind of language clearly deserves a lynching.

Unvote, Vote: Wizardcat

Lynch -2! One more, then it's =====[] time!

[Glork]

I think massive just made fun of me.

[Glork]

Is anybody else weirded out by the thirteenth "player" in this game? This "Carbon Copy" seems a bit of an oddity.

Also, I noticed that the scums win condition says that they win when all actual

famous

cats are dead. Because of this, it might be wise to avoid claming rolenames and instead focus on just abilities. On the other hand, we might want the protective roles to know who to protect and who to avoid. Not sure on this one... I think it'd be a nice topic for discussion to get things rolling.

Unvote, Vote: Blagho

because I feel like it.

[Glork]

The letter in the street, any ideas?

Well, it seems evident that Thesp was responding to somebody's questions. Off-hand, I'd be very much inclined to guess that it's a pro-town ability. Could be investigative. Could be something else.

Carbon Copy is something I really can't work my head around. I'd potentially be up for a CC-wagon. My first guess is that it's an alter-ego for a player in this game. I am reminded of BMQ's "MafiaScum Mafia Mafia" where You Only Live Twice Mafia was a role, and it was actually a serial killer with an alter-ego controlled by the same person. More recently, Bastard Mod Mafia also had a "myserious alt" named "Scum." I think that's what Zindie was referring to in his earlier post.

Mostly, I'd like to

hear from

Carbon Copy himself (herself?).

[Glork]

Well that narrows it down to one of like four people.

IGMEOY: CC

[Glork]

good catch glorkness.

i'd actually missed that. and yes, the you only live twice rule was brilliant.
except getting lynched on a day and having my alt killed the very next night

Yes, crazy things can happen when you read the first post of the game.

Also, I'd forgotten that

you

were YOLTM in BMQ's game. How unbelievably convenient.

[Glork]

CC is either Battle Mage or it's someone faking him.

Quoting goodness.

Battle Mage never signed up for this game. This leads me to believe that it's somebody who knows who Battle Mage is and is attempting to emulate his posting style. Hence my comment that it narrows the suspects down to one of a small handful of players.

[Glork]

Personally, Zindie, I think you're more likely to be CC than anybody else.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Zindaras

Like you brought up, Zindie, the quoting thing is clearly a mimic of Battle Mage. That right there rules out *most* players in this game, because BM is new to the site and hasn't played with that many people, and he has a

very

unique quoting style. I didn't go check other players playing in BM's games, but you struck me the most.

You suggest that CC is scum, but you never vote or even FoS him, yet he chooses to OMGUS you rather than anybody else. I can't explain

why

, but this feels like a distancing ploy.

Even since then, I think that your "*shrugs*" in your posts are an attempt to act nonchalant about the whole thing. "Meh, well, this is what I thought. But whatever, it doesn't bother me. I've got nothing to hide." Yeah. Right.

Primate makes a good point about how the "mood" or posting style of newbie-BM is there, but not the actual words. CC's word choice in Post 42 is a little too... I don't know, sophisticated? Appropriate?... especially in this line:

I think Zindaras is noob mafia trying to pile on to someone just after they received attention.

I'd rather lynch Zindaras than CC today. If you want to kill the weed, you need to pull it up by its roots.



Still, maybe we can get some answers by asking some questions...

Carbon Copy:

Are you an alt for a player in this game? If so, who? Why did you not just state that right away?

Zindaras:

Is Carbon Copy your alt? If so, why did you not just admit to it off the bat?

[Glork]

I'd prefer to kill zindie, then watch CC try and squirm it's way out, still under the facade of 'not zindie'. be hilarious.

This man has an almost sadistic element of glee in his work. You all should try to be more like him.

[Glork]

If you're as you say, and you're pro-town, then how do you explain this?

The question is: is it scum or is it town?

Previous experiences with alts suggest that he should be scum. I've seen alts used in three games. One identical to this, where it was a scum-alt, but also obviously scum by flavour. I've seen one in a very complicated game, which was also scum. I've also seen an alt which would replace a specific player, as if brainwashed.

You clearly indicate that you think CC is more likely to be scum, and you OMGUS yourself, then start defending yourself. All of this play makes no sense whatsoever.

Unvote

for now, but I am

VERY

unhappy with all of this. I need to think on it some more. Also, I'd like to hear from everyone else on Zindie's rolename claim. I might be asking for a full claim in the near future.

[Glork]

Vote: Carbon Copy

Carbon Copy is now at Lynch -1. Claim or die.

[Glork]

What is that role? What does it do? Is there any flavor associated with that role? Is it one-shot or permanent?

[Glork]

Permanent? From an Inventor?

That sounds like it could be VERY broken if there's not some corrective factor.

[Glork]

As an aside, I'd like to point out that both Rainbow and Carbon Copy are actual famous cats, not fictional.

That's the only reason that I'm not adamantly advocating for your death right now.

Unvote

... back to thinking.

[Glork]

We started with a No-Kill N0.

[Glork]

Everyone has confirmed (That was quick, thanks everyone!). Now it's ACTUALLY Night Zero. Awaiting on all night choices.

Night Zero is a kill-less night. Think of it as everybody having doc protection.

[Glork]

Primate, do you believe Zindie's rolename claim? At this point, do you think he is more likely to be pro-town or a scumbag?

Unvote

, as I thought I had done so earlier.

[Glork]

Vote: Primate

Hunch+

[Glork]

I realized that if Zindie is legit (which I am starting to lean towards), it would be the perfect time for scum to push the lynch against him. You claimed that Zindie's Rainbow/CC was a complete "fabrication," but when he asked you what you meant with that statement, you really never elaborated. You seemed also to be fishing a little too hard when you wanted role/ability info from both Zindaras and CarbonCopy; it's highly likely that we can only lynch one of them today, and lynching one should be a litmus test for the alignment of the other (unless Bertrand's bastard-modding is

really

bad and he gave Zindie two roles with

different

alignments and win conditions).

Zindie's OMGUSy reaction really has nothing to do with it, in my eyes. When I skimmed back over your attacks on him, I found something that I didn't like in them. I'm not entirely sure what it is, but if there's a scum who pushed for a Zindaras/CC claim or lynch, I definitely think that it's much more likely to be primate than either Thesp or myself. We are pretty freaking sweet, afterall, and I see little reason to believe that either of us lack a third dimension to our catness. I suppose it's

possible

that we were all misguided townies, but I do not find that terribly likely to be the case.

[Glork]

If you are "lynched," will the game go into night immediately thereafter?

[Glork]

If you are nightkilled, will we be informed of your death and subsequent revival?

If you are nightkilled twice in the same night, will you be revived and then killed, or does it count as one kill?

[Glork]

Well if a doublenightkill doesn't result in your being dead, it might be a good idea to suggest to a Vig (if we have one) that they kill you. That way we can gain info from goign after a lynch on a completely different player.


So yes, it might be relevant and helpful for the town.

[Glork]

You're not exactly in a position to be choosing when and how you will be tested.

[Glork]

Unvote Carbon Copy

Need a re-read.

How's that re-read coming along, DP?

[Glork]

Beh, I guess I see your point. I still need to think on this for a while.


In the meantime, I want to hear input from some of our other players.

Also,

Mod, could you do something about Blagho?

He still hasn't posted, and based on his inactivity across the site, I'd guess that he'll need to be replaced.

[Glork]

Hm.

IGMEOY: DP

Zindaras, if you die, does CC get to stay around?

[Glork]

Did you forget to ask the third question, or are you choosing to withhold that information for the time being?


I am now once again leaning towards wanting to lynch Zindaras or CarbonCopy.

[Glork]

I find it distinctly possible. I don't think I've played with Scumdaras since you've come to MafiaScum, so I really can't honestly say that I remember how tend to play as scum. I definitely could see Zindiescum trying to pass off CC as another player altogether, and the distancing definitely makes more sense if you're scum than if you're town.

[Glork]

Just because you can point out an example where you played a role differently in the past does not clear you in this case. In fact, any good player will mix up how they play their roles so that others can't use precedence against them nearly as much.

You saying "this is what I do as town and that is what I do as scum" means absolutely *NOTHING* to me because you could very well be lying.

[Glork]

Zindie, it's not as though you made it obvious that you were CarbonCopy. You speculated that CC might be scum, you stated that it looked like Battle Mage's posting style, and you repeated that sentiment with the whole "*shrug* whatever think what you want, I still think it could be Battle Mage" thing. I don't know why you're behaving as if you intentionally made it obvious taht you were CC. I think that you were trying to pass it off as a completely different player and that you simply got completely busted. Period.

Unvote

(if I'm voting),

Vote: Zindaras

[Glork]

Oh, I'm sorry. What about that game we played when you claimed to be a ROLEBLOCKER when you were a VANILLA TOWNIE? (Mini 311, I believe, for those who are interested.)

"Don't lie as town" my foot. Die scum die.

[Glork]

Asides from that, Carbon Copy is a famous actual cat. Carbon Copy is not fictitious. Is there a fictitious cat named Carbon Copy? No. Flavour screams town.

Safe claims exist. CC's name is like a built-in safe claim. I'm suspicious of you both because of the way that you handled having CC and because Primate counterclaimed. Unless Primate is pulling a

massive

WIFOM, I don't think he'd do so as scum. And as it's been pointed out, having two nearly-identical roles (functionally, anyway) is pretty pointless.

[Glork]

In all likelihood, yes.

[Glork]

Can we get

Modprods

on ubertimmy and Wizardcat? Neither of them have posted in over a week.


Thanks in advance.

[Glork]

I'm not playiing "Outguess the Mod" so much as I'm using my knowledge of most thematic games, and most games in general.

Most themed games, if they can be broken due to flavor reasons (such as the "Cartooniness" of scumbags) provide safe claims in some form or another.
Most games do not include multiple copies of unique or unusual roles. And double-life roles are indeed very unique.

I argue that to posit

anything else

is to play Outguess the Mod.



I have also already addressed your "but here's how I played this role as scum before" point. It is necessary to change your play from game to game. In fact, I would not be surprised if "Scumdaras," upon recieving the role, said to himself, "Aha... here's how I can compare this to the past to explain why I wouldn't be scum." It's complete and utter WIFOM.

[Glork]

No, the sitaution you present

IS

WIFOM.

"I can play the same way, or I can play it differently and use 'but I played it this way last time' as a defense." You also present the "Scum wouldn't do this, and I did this, so I'm not scum" argument which is very typical of a WIFOM defense.

And once again, your defense implies that you let yourself get caught. I think you realized that I had found out you were CarbonCopy, and that I was going to lynch you anyway. I even said that I wanted to lynch

Zindaras rather than CC.

At that point, you have every reason to "come clean" and try to save face in that manner. Admitting that you were found out, when you were admittedly distancing from yourself and proposed that CC might be scum is not an indication that you were okay with being found out. It is an indication of the

exact opposite,

that you wanted CC to be seen as being completely

separate

from you.



I feel like I'm arguing in circles. Can we lynch Zindie already?

[Glork]

And because you say something or want to get someone lynched, it's obviously going to happen, right?

In this case, yes. I pointed out the existence of a "13th player," instigated discussion on the matter, then proposed several reasons why I not only thought that it was a scum role, but also why I thought that

YOU

had that scum role.

and proposed that CC might be scum

As I pointed out before, this was done to see who would jump on CC purely for flawed role reasons.

That's absurd. You insinuate that somebody is scum and then want to see who supports that notion "for flawed role reasons"?

Off the top of my head, I remember both Thesp and myself citing that, based on game experience (and I even provided two examples where this was true), that anonymous alt-handles tend to be scum. You provided another such example. Phoebus

actually had that exact role

in one of the examples I cited and more or less agreed with the sentiment, as did you yourself.

Role/Game history

very strongly

suggests that such a role would be scum. Since this is the case, any player who has experienced a scum-alt is far more likely to jump on that alt for that reason. It is not flawed in the least. It makes

perfect sense

. I pointed this out, ran up wagons against you/CC, and forced you into a claim by directly asking crystal clear questions as to whether or not you were CC. And I daresay we both knew that if you had tried to lie about it, you would have been disbelieved and CC would have been lynched. Why? Because nobody would have fessed up to being CC and the obvious logical conclusion would be, "Aha! CC is scum, since he obviously isn't Battle Mage!" We would then trace back CC-scum to his player-root (read: you, unless everyone else thought I was busing CC) using my explanation, and then we'd proceed to run you up, too.

So by admitting that you were CC, I think that you did the only thing possible to even give yourself a chance of talking your way out of it.

Your "Plan X" of staying away from CC at all costs may have garnered less suspicion for you, Zindaras, in the immediate future. But running up CC would have been disastrous given that I had already displayed why you and CC were one and the same. I actually think that going "yes, I'm CC and I was being silly" is the

best play you could have possibly made

, regardless of what your alignment happens to be.

[Glork]

Also,

FoS: Wizardcat

for not busing his scumbuddy Zindie.

[Glork]

Prodding Timmy?

Done.
~bert

[Glork]

My current stance is that Zindaras is scum and had a built-in fakeclaim to his role. Primate counterclaimed what is essentially the same role, and I do not expect two roles that similar to have the same alignment. If Zindaras (or CC) turns out to be pro-town, I will then puruse a Primate death (regardless of whether he has a one-shot revival -- the Phoenix godfather in Mythical Monsters Mafia had a one-shot revival, so I see that as being distinctly possible).

If Primate is gambiting with the counterclaim, there's no way he'll get away with it. I am A) concluding that Primate is *NOT* gambiting; and B) concluding that, based on Zindaras' behavior, he is likely to be scum. Thus, I want Zindaras (or, alternatively, CC) lynched today.

[Glork]

If we're positing that one or the other has to be scum, isn't in the town's best interest to try the one that has no extra vote first? It seems like the extra vote might be important somewhere down the line.

No. I'd give 90% odds that Primate's

ability

is true. However, we'd have to spend Lynch+Vig or Lynch+Lynch (if there is no Vig) to properly test him.

If Zindaras is pro-town, yes, we'll lose an extra vote. That's not really that big a deal, though, because it saves us up to a day's worth of actions to get that information.

[Glork]

Hah. I don't care if Zindie "agrees" to get lynched now. I'll be pretty ticked if it doesn't happen at this point. I see virtually no reason to believe that Primate is malicious and that Zindie is legit.

[Glork]

FoS: Primate, Dragon Phoenix

Primate, you gots some 'splainin' to do.

[Glork]

'sup, Timmy.

[Glork]

Please put your vote somewhere useful. Preferrably on DP. Kthxbai.

Vote: DP

[Glork]

Nah, I'm rock solid. I'm not going to be lynched, today or ever.

Deleted a pointless post by a non-game player, and fixed a small detail which I accidentally omitted from the night scene. Sorry.

~Bert

[Glork]

Hold on, I have to check something.

Unvote

[Glork]

I'd like you to contribute something other than OMGUS to the discussion, sir.

[Glork]

Let me put it this way, DP. The "small detail" that the Mod forgot to include is something that you should understand better than anybody. If you would stop and read and think for just a few minutes, you'd understand why I did what I did

before

the "detail" was added, and why I did what I did immediately

after

observing the added detail. I'm "acting weird" because I'm dealing with the mod having screwed up, and I probably look like a complete idiot because of it.

[Glork]

I'm trying to think of a nonfictional cat who is known for talking in its sleep. It's not coming to me.

IGMEOY: DGB

DP, what do you think of DGB's post restriction?

[Glork]

Vote: Primate

at least until he explains himself.

[Glork]

Argh.

Unvote, Vote: theopor_COD

[Glork]

I find it highly unlikely that no scums were on Zindaras' lynch, and I'm not sure what to say/think about Phoebus. Of the players on that lynch, it seems reasonable to conclude that perhaps you are a scumbag on that lynch.

[Glork]

Also, what do you think of Primate?

[Glork]

Why DGB?

[Glork]

Interesting.

So we have a double-voter, a message-sender, a twin-identity, a claimed two-life player, and a player who dies with only half the required number for a lynch.

[Glork]

FoS: Primate

[Glork]

Glork, are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Uh, yeah, Brain, but how are we going to get wetsuits in our size?

[Glork]

So I've been thinking about this whole Primate-double-life deal, along with Zindaras's double-role, and I've decided that it's very possible that they could both be pro-town. If the scums' win condition is to kill all of the cats which are actually famous (as indicated in the initial post), then giving famous cats "extra lives" would be something of a safeguard against the random unlucky occurrence in which the few famous cats we have get run up or nightkilled early.

I mean, suppose out of the 12 players + CC, we have four famous cats. Primate having a double-life would effectively give us 5 famous cats, which could make a lot more sense, balance-wise.

I think that any speculation on Primate's alignment based solely (or even primarily) on Zindaras' alignment is little more than a dangerous game of Outguess the Mod. I do not think Primate is the play today (despite what Massive seems to indicate). Also, considering how much we know about players in the game in general (like I said... DGB with a claimed post restriction; Theo with a doublevote, Timmy lynch-susceptible, Zindie with two identities, Primate with a claimed double-life, and a message-sender out and about), the scums probably have a pretty decent idea of what's going on -- far better, I daresay, than most of the rest of us have. And now Massive claims that Primate is lying or somesuch, and Primate claims to know roughly what Massive is talking about. There's too much information accidentally being given away, methinks.

[Glork]

Vote:Glork

1) You're already voting me.
2) Just because you're lynch-susceptible does not mean you are in any way confirmed as an innocent. Consequently, you are expected to substantiate any suspicions you may have. Explain yourself immediately.

[Glork]

MOD: Vote Count, please?

[Glork]

This looks a lot like scum-glork trying to spin away his mistakes.

Has anybody ever told you that you're terrible at reading me?


Thanks. <3

[Glork]

Mod: I think Pooky's asking something like this:
In the initial post, the flavor indicates that the cartoonscums want to get all fo the

real

cats out of town. In the scum win condition, it says they only need to get all of the

famous

cats out of town. Is there a difference between "real cat" and "famous cat"?

Would you like to know every other player's role and win conditions while we're at it? All I will say is that everyone here has a name (or do they?), and I didn't make anyone up (or did I?).

There, that shouldn't clear anything up,
~Bert

To answer your other question, Pooky: I would assume that if the scums control a majority of the town, they can force lynches as they please and kill at night, meaning even if there are famous (real?) cats left, they will get them via the typical endgame process.

[Glork]

I guess I'm wondering why you would have been so aggressive against Zindaras knowing that your counter-claim was based on a lie.

I don't necessarily want you to elaborate on this if it means giving away more role information, but if Primate's counterclaim was based on a lie, this bothers me to no end.

Strong FoS: Primate

[Glork]

So if the scums knew that Zindaras was legit, meaning they knew that he was a famous cat, I would certainly expect them to be all over his wagon. Let's take a look at his end-of-day vote count:

Zindaras (7, 0): Glork, DrippingGoofball, theopor_COD, Phoebus, Dragon Phoenix, Thesp, Primate

I think that every player should probably weigh in on the living players on this wagon. I'd guess about two cartoon-crazies, and right now I'm looking at Theo and DGB as the most likely scumbags on Zindaras' lynch.

[Glork]

Has Wizardcat picked up his prod? If not, can he please be replaced?

Yes, he has.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Wizardcat

Definitely not good enough for me.

[Glork]

This game has seen seven posts in a week. Where has everybody gone? This greatly disappoints me.

[Glork]

While you're here, DGB, would you care to comment on the post in which you failed your post restriction?

[Glork]

I'm trying to decide whether I think DGB's vote looks like busnig a scumbuddy, jumping on an "easy" bandwagon, or legitimate townie carelessness.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: DGB

We can return to Wizardcat later.

[Glork]

Hmm.... well, I believe that CarbonCopy

did

say that he recieved an ability on Night One.

[Glork]

Do you choose what you dream up yourself, or do you dream up something from a list or something?

Are you willing to tell us what you sent to Zindaras and X? If so, what were they?

[Glork]

Another possibility is that Glork breadcrumbed something to DP because Glork has some tracking ability, and knew that DP was sent something. Glork could be scum and want to take credit for it. Not likely, though, I would consider this most remote.

I'm not trying to take credit for anything; DP is the one who brought up having recieved something from me (though I really wish he had not -- I do not see the purpose in having done so).

Unvote DGB

I do buy her claim and explanation, and I agree with her assessment that one of her N2 targets may have lied about having gotten anything. It's also entirely possible that something else (such as a roleblocker) prevented her from sending anything to anybody.

I want to hear what Pooky and Wizardcat are thinking right now.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Wizardcat

[Glork]

I'm here...

[Glork]

I posted this in V/LA, but I'm going to have

severely

reduced access over the next 8-10 days. I'm still going to try to post in all of my games every other day or so.

[Glork]

Skruffs, my argument was based almost

entirely

on precedent and metagame. I cited examples (Bastard Mod Mafia, MafiaScum Mafia Mafia) where players with an alt were scum. I furthermore pointed out that Zindaras' defense consisted entirely of "yes, I lied, but I should be excused because I had this same role as scum before and I played it differently." I do realize that this is game is advertised as having bastard-modding, but I made a conscious decision that the likelihood of Zindaras being pro-town, having been counterclaimed and having distanced from himself, was pretty minute. I was wrong.

You're right in pointing out that Zindaras' wagon sprouted pretty quickly after I said I would be upset if he didn't get lynched. Nevertheless, I don't regret having made that statement. It might be worthwhile to look at who piled onto the Zindielynch at the very end (in fact, that was one of my preliminary reasons for voting Theo). But I made a pretty damned good case, and Zindaras really was the right play.

I also explained that I would not have expected Primate to counterclaim in the manner he did if he were scum. I still hold true to that belief, at least for now, which is why I haven't bothered to go after him. I'm not pushing the idea out of my mind completely -- my reasons for saying I find Primate to be pro-town are entirely WIFOM-based -- but he is not currently at the top of my list.

[Glork]

Oh. Skruffs, you should know what's up. Your predecessor did.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: theopor

He's on my short list. Let's run him up.

[Glork]

Well, massclaiming will likely not help us at all while helping the scums out a bunch. Considering this is allegedly a 'Bastard Mod' game, I would expect that players, regardless of alignment, will have some ability-oddities. It wouldn't surprise me at all if every claimed ability/action ends up being true; but that would only mean that scums will have abilities. This means that while we

don't

know any alignment/abilitypairings, the scums

will

know, and that can only hurt us.

[Glork]

ModProd:

Pooky

, CarbonCopy, UberTimmy,

Primate

Done.

I'm going to cross them off in your post as they pick up their prods.

[Glork]

I'm going to go ahead and assume that Pooky is saying that my suggestion is incredibly scummy.

Nevertheless, given that we know there are already several abilities out there (and that many of those abilities have been associated with a specific player), I feel it is reasonable to conclude that the scums have abilities. In Vegas Showgirls Mafia, the mafia had a Tracker, a Governor, and a Roleblocker. I don't see why Pooky is finiding it scummy to posit that the scums may have abilities. Mind elaborating, Pooksies?

[Glork]

But Pooky, if the mafia doesn't have abilities, then I can't be mafia because it's been confirmed by DP/Skruffs that I gave them something.


Duh.

[Glork]

Skruffs, I don't care what you want me to fulfill. I already asked the key question that made DP know that I gave him the stupid thing.

[Glork]

Feh. No time for a proper post right now. But Skruffs, you are either completely insane, or you are scum. You should know exactly what role I have, and there is no reason for you to be voting me. Stop and

think

for a minute.

[Glork]

As far as I know, that was a one shot thingie, so no, I have no idea what role you have - I jsut know of one thing you did.

If you really think that A) My ability is one-shot; and B) You don't know my role, then you're far less intelligent than I've been giving you credit for. Or you're very good at playing dumb.

Have you examined what you recieved in complete, thorough detail? Have you examined DP's reaction/response to it? Have you looked at all of the evidence in-thread to draw some conclusion as to the

significance

of how I am choosing go about doing things?

[Glork]

This game bores me too much. Even without Skruffs' response to my most recent posts, I'm going to do something that I already think might be sub-optimal, but will at least get things going.

I am the Message-Sender. The responses in the Death Posts have been replies to my targets. N0 was Thesp. N1 was DP/Skruffs. More importantly, I am also the Cop. It should be apparent from the notes that were found that I ask questions in my messages. As long as one of them asks about the character/alignment in question, I will be told whether my target is legitimate or not. I am not a famous Cat. In fact, I don't even remember my rolename. But I look it up and claim it if necessary.

Both nights, my first question has been whether the player I targeted was 3-D (i.e., whether they were not-a-cartoon). The second question I asked DP was whether he thought DGB's post-restriction was genuine or not. I will leave the third question and the ensuing comment/note to Skruffs to reveal because I want him to acknowledge that he recieved the note properly. DP indicated this when his opinion of me went from "FoS for behaving suspiciously" to thinking I am pro-town, after I made Post 224 in which I essentially repeated/paraphrased the question I had asked in the overnight message.

Now, to explain the confusion with me going after DP at the onset of D2: When the mod first opened the day, he left out the message in the death scene

and

he failed to send me a message. I thought I had been blocked, but I PM'd the mod just in case. In the meantime, I concluded that me being blocked would have most likely been a result of DPscum getting the message overnight, then having a Mafia Roleblocker target somebody who was suspicious of him (read: me). I don't remember

why

I came to that conclusion, but I wanted to pressure DP a bit to see how he would respond. Not long after I voted DP and asked the mod, the post was edited and I got my reply. This is what I was referring to in Post 222 when I mentioned a mod error. Evidence of the existence of a mod-error can be seen in that the mod made the death scene at approximate 19:00 EST and edited it at approximately 22:30 EST. The mod noted that he added in the "small detail" in Post 213.


Anyway, there are two reasons that I targeted DP last night instead of Primate. First, the previous dual-life scumbags I have ever seen or known of have been

Godfather

roles. I concluded that an investigation on Primate would very likely result in an innocent result, so I decided to poke around somewhere

else

, where I thought I could get more information. The reason I targeted DP is because I saw in his posts here something htat I had noticed when he was scum in my Bond Villain Mafia -- he seemed to be refraining from contributing, but was able to make "I need to catch up on this game" type posts quite easily. I felt that he was avoiding discussion, which is something I thought he had been doing in Bond Villian Mafia.

There is one simple (though very important) reason that I do not want Primate lynched

today

. To me, the numbers dicatate that lynching elsewhere is the correct play:
Let us first assume the worst-case feasable scenario. There are three mafiates left, and there is an inaccurate and active vigilante. If we "lynch" Primate today and he does not die, we will go into night with 9 players left. If there are two mis-kills, there will be 7 alive tomorrow with 3 scums still out there. A second lynch on Primate means that, if we were wrong about his being scum, we lose. If we "lynch" Primate today, unless the vigilante kills him overnight, we would potentially be staking the

entire game

on him being scum. I am not yet willing to make that commitment.
Now, consider the case where we lynch elsewhere. If we mislynch somebody, then we will go into night with 8 alive. The Vigilante's

ONLY

proper move would be to target Primate, thereby reducing him to a single life. More importantly, there would only be one death, and we will be in a very similar situation as if we had lynched Primate, except for one

very significant

difference. We would have the info gained from a lynchee (i.e., a suspicious player) even if we mislynch, rather than the info from an added vig/miskill. Furthermore, the discussion leading up to our D2 lynch will provide us with more information to go on tomorrow. I can't see any benefit to failing-to-lynch-Primate today.

I am still very confident that Theopor is scum. I am also fairly confident that one of Primate/Skruffs is scum -- likely (or necessarily) a Godfather, if true. I'm not yet sure who I think the third scum is, but I think that it's likely one of Pooky/DGB/Massive.

I'm still wary of Primate's behavior regarding Zindaras, but I still find myself sitting on the fence with regards to it. Skruffs' behavior, especially recently, bothers me a lot, though. I get the distinct feeling that he is attempting to pit me against Primate. Either get me to go after Primate, or accuse me of being scum using a Bait-and-Switch maneuver. Furthermore, given my pressure on Theo throughout the day, I also begin to wonder if Skruffs' behavior is an attempt to get me to Primate not only because that'd be a "mislynch," but because it would get pressure away from his scumbuddy Theo.

Now, I have some questions for Skruffs:
-Did you recognize that I am the message-sender? If so, when exactly did you realize that this was the case (i.e., after what post or at what point in time did you decide that I was the message-sender)?
-If you did

not

think that I was the message-sender, how do you know that I targeted DP and that I was able to hint at the DGB post-restriction question?
-If you

did

think that I was the message-sender, why on earth did you say that my ability was one-shot, when there was a message left after N0, and when Thesp

claimed

to have left that message?

[Glork]

...incorrect regarding what? Skruffs?

I don't necessarily think he's incorrect regarding Skruffs; I'm not ready to conclude anything about him one way or another. But knowing what I know about the exchange between me/DP and me/Skruffs, I understand why Miztef thinks Skruffs is pro-town and why I have my doubts.

[Glork]

...I'm going to assume that you didn't read the post in which I claimed. Please re-post once you have read that post in full. <3

[Glork]

I'm not a Lie Detector. I know why Skruffs said that I am one -- I told him in the message that I'd know if he were lying -- but my purpose in saying that was specifically to give my targets less incentive to lie in their responses. Like I said, as long as I ask a question regarding their character/alignment, I get to know whether they are scum or not.

I don't see why Message-Sender/Cop is such an unlikely possibility. It makes

perfect

sense that a player could investigate by passing messages and reading responses. And if you think about it, all it does is make me a

weaker

cop because my target will

KNOW

that I have investigated them.

DGB, you're not trying to turn the tables after Covert Ops, are you?


Also, there's a reason that I pointed out the scums' win condition as cited in the initial post. It says that the scums' win condition is to eliminate all "actual famous" cats. The reason that I pointed this out in Post 34 was not only to get discussion going, but also to hint to my own nature.
By the way, my name is Fred. *shrug*

Mod: Vote Count?

Vote Count: coming soon.

[Glork]

No. I told you a partial truth.

If I ask you three questions, one of which involves your alignment, and I am going to *know* the answer to the alignment question, I will be able to discern whether your other responses are likely to be legitimate or fabricated. Thus, even though I would not be told the level of truth of your other answers, I can make a very good educated guess based on my knowledge of your alignment. Unfortunately, DP bypassed this by simply replying "Maybe" to my other questions.

For example, Skruffs. If I ask Thesp three questions and he answers, and I believe a "Thesp is not evil" result from the mod, then I can conclude that his answers to the other two questions are likely to be as accurate as possible, if we use the "Townies don't lie" principle. Thus, even though I only get a specific answer to the

first

question, I get indirect answers to the other two.

[Glork]

I have to say, though, I like the way that you're trying to stretch to make me look scummy in any way possible. Have fun trying not to be lynched next once I'm dead and gone.

[Glork]

DGB, listen.

I get told whether they are scum or not. This is a COP ability. But in knowing whether they are scum, I get an answer to my question regarding WHETHER THEY ARE SCUM OR NOT.

[Glork]

Okay.

Suppose I send you a message in which I ask you whether you are scum and you say "No."

Suppose I am then told by the mod that you are scum because I am a COP.

Will I then know that you were lying? Yes. Yes, I will.


I am not a "Lie Detector." But

as a COP

, if I know that you are scum, I will know not to trust your answers to my questions.

[Glork]

Huh. I thought I indicated this way at the start of the day (or even yesterday), but I don't see Primate counterclaiming if his

role/abiliy

isn't accurate, regardless of his alignment. But yeah, as I indicated before, my philosophy has changed based on the numbers. If we fail-to-lynch Primate, we won't be any closer to knowing anybody's alignment, aside from an overnight death. And we'll still have to invest another day -- quite possibly our only remaining day, if we're wrong -- in lynching Primate. I'm just being

cautious

.


Also, your claim that a death elsewhere implies I am scum is inaccurate. If scum think that there might be a Doctor out there, they'll go hunting for the Doctor so as to expose the Cop on the subsequent night (as was our thinking in Space Monkey). I would

expect

scum to try to hit elsewhere unless they think they have reason to believe that there is no doctor, or that the doctor is dead.

[Glork]

Glork's about face regarding Primate is a major thorn in his credibility. I don't think he's suspecting Primate even a little bit today. How weird is that?

Posts made today in which I have suspected Primate:

FoS: Primate, Dragon Phoenix

Primate, you gots some 'splainin' to do.

FoS: Primate

So I've been thinking about this whole Primate-double-life deal, along with Zindaras's double-role, and I've decided that it's very possible that they could both be pro-town. If the scums' win condition is to kill all of the cats which are actually famous (as indicated in the initial post), then giving famous cats "extra lives" would be something of a safeguard against the random unlucky occurrence in which the few famous cats we have get run up or nightkilled early.

I mean, suppose out of the 12 players + CC, we have four famous cats. Primate having a double-life would effectively give us 5 famous cats, which could make a lot more sense, balance-wise.

I think that any speculation on Primate's alignment based solely (or even primarily) on Zindaras' alignment is little more than a dangerous game of Outguess the Mod. I do not think Primate is the play today (despite what Massive seems to indicate). Also, considering how much we know about players in the game in general (like I said... DGB with a claimed post restriction; Theo with a doublevote, Timmy lynch-susceptible, Zindie with two identities, Primate with a claimed double-life, and a message-sender out and about), the scums probably have a pretty decent idea of what's going on -- far better, I daresay, than most of the rest of us have. And now Massive claims that Primate is lying or somesuch, and Primate claims to know roughly what Massive is talking about. There's too much information accidentally being given away, methinks.

I guess I'm wondering why you would have been so aggressive against Zindaras knowing that your counter-claim was based on a lie.

I don't necessarily want you to elaborate on this if it means giving away more role information, but if Primate's counterclaim was based on a lie, this bothers me to no end.

Strong FoS: Primate

The closest I came to endorsing Primate in those posts was when I was thinking aloud regarding the whole Real/Famous Cats situation. I said that speculation of Primate's alignment based solely on Zindaras' alignment was dangerous (something I still hold to, in spite of my D1 fanaticism), and I said that I didn't think Primate was the play

today

(which I have since then explained using a numerical/strategic argument).


So when you say that I haven't been "suspecting Primate even a little bit today" and I can point to three posts in which I FoS Primate and another in which I speak thoughts on the Primate situation, I have to wonder if you're trying to do any scumhunting, or whether you're just making things up and hoping that it sticks.

[Glork]

I'd give 3-1 odds on at least two of Theo, Primate, and DGB being scum at this point.


Just sayin'.

[Glork]

/agree Skruffs. (Wow... that's a turnaround.)

[Glork]

I still don't understand you people. If I am reasonably certain that two players are scum and lynching only one of them will result in an actual

dead

scumbag immediately, then why would I go after the other?

Tell me Pantsman, would you stake two lynches on Primate being scum?
Would you stake one lynch on another player being scum?

[Glork]

ZHow do you explain it, then?

....how about the way I've been trying to explain it for a full page now? Yaknow, that whole thing about how strategically, lynching Primate -- even if he is scum -- is horrendously sub-optimal given our limited information.

[Glork]

DGB, I have already explained why I didn't choose to investigate Primate. Please read the thread for details.

That same philosophy applies to Zindaras and/or Carbon Copy just as much. I see a dual-life Godfather as being most likely the case. Thus, an investigation on Zindaras, CC or Primate would likely be futile.



I do not like having to repeat myself like this.

[Glork]

I'm saying that

IF

Primate is scum, he is

VERY PROBABLY

a Godfather with the dual-life ability.

I felt the same would have applied to Zindaras.

[Glork]

I'm reasonably sure that I've seen a double-life godfather in another game, though my memory fails me right now... I'll have to check that.

[Glork]

Miztef... I'm curious to know what the implications of "TheoScum," "GlorkScum," or "DGBScum" mean to you. Do you think that all three of us could possibly be scum together? Do you see any possible pairing (Glork/Theo, Glork/DGB, Theo/DGB) as being viable?

It seems silly to me that I'd be busing Theo while DGB is trying to bus me, so I don't think you believe that all of us are scum. Are you simply try to arrive at a decision as to which among us are most likely to be scum?

[Glork]

Okay, that's what I had figured. I just wanted you to make it clear.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Primate

[Glork]

I've already had misgivings about you, your roleclaim doesn't satisfy me one bit, and the deadline is later today, I believe. I'd rather secure a nonlynch against you than no lynch at all.

[Glork]

EBWODP: Nevermind, it's the 27th instead of the 23rd... the deadline was set on the 13th, which is prolly why I got confused.

Unvote

I'm going to read over everything again and see how I feel about this.

[Glork]

I don't understand why you two are bothering with this whole train of thought. I'd give like a 5% chance that you'll actually get anything substantial out of this discussion, and I personally find it very distracting to something I consider a far more important task (that is, hunting scum).

I also don't understand why "Theo 'killed' Primate, but since Primate has an extra life, he didn't actually die" isn't what you are tentatively going with, though I probably missed something in the last few pages.
Suppose Theo "killed" Primate who didn't die due to his extra life. Suppose DGB was roleblocked. Suppose somebody can grant double-votes and

just doesn't want to claim right now

. Is this so far-fetched?



Also, a quick sidenote. I made a grave, grave error in my conclusion that I'm unfamous and that there are unfamous, real cats in the game. As it turns out, I'm Fred the Undercover Kitty. Scratch all of my thoughts on there being realunfamous cats. I feel like a complete tool.

[Glork]

Your claim fits your role, except for the questions bit. It's enough to believe in for now, though.

All of your theories are possible, but it's also possible theo is a mafia thug who gets abilities from people he kills - and if he killed a townie, who's only 'ability' is his vote, than that ALSO Explains his double vote. Why are you *not* curious about that?

I am. In fact, Theo is still on my list of suspects, along with Primate, DGB, you (to a lesser degree), and Pooky. I was just posing a sample set of events that don't involve any Bus Drivers. Didn't Theo say that the deaths don't match his kill method anyway?

[Glork]

Can we get a Prod (and possible replacement) on ubertimmy? Can we also get a prod on Pooky?

[Glork]

I want clarification from the mod on this Vote Count before taking any action.

My bad, sorry guys.

[Glork]

We have 10 alive, right? I think it

should

be 6 to lynch.

Right.

I'm not sure I understand why you're switching to Theopor now, Skruffs. Elaborate?

[Glork]

Skruffs, have you considered the possibility that Primate's non-deaths do

not actually produce a false death scene

, and that he's lying about that aspect of his role?

[Glork]

Meh.

Vote: Primate

... I believe that's Lynch -1. Who would like to drop the hammer?

[Glork]

As suspected, Pooky is evil.

Vote: Pooky

[Glork]

Also,

Mod:

Could you please update the thread title to reflect that it's Day Three now?

Done.

[Glork]

Nine people. Still not LyLo, even if we assume three scums.

[Glork]

Do you know why you lost the double-vote?

[Glork]

Alright, I must've forgotten that.

And you have no idea where/why/how you got this ability?

[Glork]

I agree with Theo's question. Why did you leave Primate off of that list? Why me?


And yes, Nai, I sent my message to Pooky. I was told that he is evil.

[Glork]

I am uncompelled by your response.

Carbon Copy seemed to have gained an ability permanently. This would indicate that you would likely want to send to people whom you believe are pro-town.

[Glork]

Huh. I hadn't thought about that.


That plan would, of course, rely on several factors. Assume for a moment that I am scum:
1) There would have had to have been either no cop in the game, or a cop who chose not to counterclaim me yeseterday. I will not rule out this possibility, but that "cop" had better show some serious breadcrumbs.
2) Theo would necessarily have to be scum,

and

there would have to be no vigilante. If Theo weren't scum, then he would be a vigilante. I would get shot and insta-victory would be

IMPOSSIBLE

. Not having a vigilante would also necessariliy mean that Thesp would've been an SK -- how else would somebody explain the extra death from the previous night?
3) I would have had to choose "Fred, the Undercover Kitty" as my fake-claim and would've had to play dumb regarding this whole "unfamous but real cat" thing

from the very beginning of the game

. Note that in one of my earliest posts (Post 34), I talk about "actual

famous

cats." And in Post 39, I state that I am "very much inclined" to think that the letter is pro-town, and I *SPECIFICALLY* state that it "could be investigative."
Why is this significant?

As scum, I have a history of making mediocre to terrible fake-claims without properly thinking them through.

Look at Mafia 49 in New York. Look at my terrible play in Two Headed Mafia. Look at how, as much as I tried to make everything make sense, Space Monkey still almost went horribly wrong. (In the postgame, Ether said that she thought I told her I was pro-town, and she

still

found the claim to be strange.) As much as I'd like to say that I'm capable of planning something like this

I simply don't have the creative or strategic capacity to do so.

Pooky's spin was a nice attempt. It ain't gonna work.

[Glork]

PS, Skruffs is back on my "potential Godfather" list. I mostly knocked him down because I thought Primate was a dual-life Godfather.

[Glork]

I received nothing, unless the mod didn't tell me.

DG, I want an answer to my statements about you. Why, exactly, can't I find any mention of your 'famous cat' anywhere on the internet?

Zaye, but there is a whole video, and I was on America's Funniest Videos or sum'thin'


Tuffie the Stunt Cat
http://www.youtube.com/v/ETpXoIJz6Js

1) There is no indication that this cat's name is "Tuffie."
2) If you wait until the end of the video and glance down at the first video of the "related videos" section, you'll see that the video's name is actually "Sleeping Cat Accident." This is no "stunt cat." This cat is not famous.


At this point, I'm okay with lynching Pooky and, when he turns up scum, having Theo vig DGB.

[Glork]

Heh. Assume Glork is Scum.

"Glork Scum" implies that I figured that my scumgroup could win given a mislynch on Pooky today.

Theo has claimed to be a vigilante. If Theo is not scum, he is necessarily a vigilante (if we assume "town doesn't lie" -- which is a safe assumption to make).

If Theo is a vigilante and Pooky gets lynched as an innocent,

I get shot, so the scums wouldn't be able to quicklynch Nai tomorrow

.

Thus, for my plan to work, Theo couldn't shoot me.

Thus, Theo would have to be scum with me.

[Glork]

....oh. I had my volume muted.

[Glork]

Still, do you realize the plethora of cats who have been shown on America's Funniest Videos? Easily hundreds, possibly thousands at this point.

[Glork]

"Glork Scum" implies that I figured that my scumgroup could win given a mislynch on Pooky today.

So you are admitting that you KNOW that lynching Pooky would be a mislynch? You KNOW that Pooky is innocent? Doesn't that mean you're scum?

No. In those posts, I am analyzing the implications of what would happen if hypothetical GlorkScum were to go after a hypothetical mislynch on Pooky. Thus,

for that hypothetical situation, I would have to assume that lynching Pooky would be a mislynch.

You are ignoring the context of "mislynch on Pooky" entirely. I am talking about the hypothetical scenario which Pooky suggested and Skruffs explained.

But earlier today, you qualified Pooky's post as "spin" which means you were casting suspicion on him. Only scum would cast suspicion on a known innocent, a cop would never do that. And you voted for Pooky!!! Early on, too.

1) He's not a "known innocent." I have no idea where you got this notion, unless it's from your flawed assumption above.
2) I was labeling his post as "spin" because he was trying to make my investigation look like a gambit.

...and Glork supports him by saying my name is wrong, and I am not famous, when I have been on a popular TV show. And WITHOUT DOING PROPER RESEARCH or reading on the link I've already posted twice (and a third time today)

I *did* look at the video; I just accidentally had my volume muted. I still maintain that being on AFV does not necessarily make a cat famous, though I now understand where you got "Tuffie the Stunt Cat" from.

vote: Glork

- and the other scum is Nai.

Does this mean you believe that there are only two scums left? How did you arrive at this conclusion?
Why would I go for a "mislynch" on Pooky if I were one of only two scums left?

[Glork]

Primate:
I investigated Thesp N1 (he confirmed that the answers in the dayscene were his). Thesp was not evil.
I investigated DP/Skruffs N2 (Skruffs has confirmed that he recieved a message from him, and that DP's response was in the dayscene). DP/Skruffs was not evil.
I investigated Pooky last night; the reply in the dayscene is his. I don't know if Pooky will confirm this or not, but that's what I did. Pooky is evil.

Pooky -- Did you recieve the message which I sent you last night? Are those *YOUR* responses in the dayscene?

I have no direct effect on the dayscene. The letters found are my targets' own responses to the questions which I sent them.



Pooky's assumption that this alleged gambit involves roleblocking or unnightkillability holds no water. However, it cannot be disproven... it's an incredibly convenient "explanation" as to "Glorkscum's plan," and it's really the only thing that Pooky (whether scum or town) can possibly give.

If there are any other regular cops out there,

NOW

is the time to be coming out and counterclaiming me. Go ahead. I dare you. Pooky? Are you going to try to counterclaim me at this point?

Pooky, explain

how

and

why

you feel that my messages from D1 were designed to "create maximum confusion." Just yelling it in all-caps is not going to convince anybody of anything.

You claim that "town Miztef" would never reveal his investigation at this time. When would you suggest that "town Miztef" reveal his investigation result?

Pooky's claim that "killing massive instead of Primate or Carbon Copy" makes no sense... is horribly flawed. As Primate said, Massive was practically confirmed as an unlynchable innocent, and he could have kept on feeding Primate new lives. I think that made the

most

sense as a kill choice, since it minimized the ability of prove pro-town players to continue to live.

And all the while, Pooky is spewing shit like "if this isn't the image of scum on the brink of victory, I don't know what is.

Pooky, cut the rhetoric. You're not going to savvy-talk your way out of anything. Provide hard evidence to support your wild theories, or it will come down to one player's word against another. And, given that I have a proven message-sending ability and no apparent counterclaim to my Cop role, along with a wiki'd

actual Famous Cat

as my rolename, I think that evidence is on my side right now.

DGB's theory about Glork/Nai/Miztef being the scumgroup holds

ZERO

ground, because

if Nai were scum, then quicklynching him tomorrow would just be lynching a scumbag -- which would not win us the game.

Pooky, please claim your rolename, any/all abilities you have had during the game, when you have had them and used them, which players you have used them on, and what results (if applicable) came from your use-of-abilities. Do so immediately, as your very next post, before you say anything else. I find it very surprising that, for somebody who has a guilty result claimed against you, you're just yelling about how I must be scum and not even trying to actually defend yourself, your role, or your behavior. Do you really expect all of this "GLORK IS GAMBITING SCUM" shouting to actually convince anybody (other than possibly DGB) that you're right and I'm wrong?

EDIT: Okay, so Pooky has claimed since I began my response. In spite of the fact that NaiTown implies we are at potential LyLo, you have chosen not to replace anybody so far. Why not? You say you're waiting for a "juicy" ability, but what would it matter if you were KILLED or ENDGAMED

before you ever got to take a player's ability

?
Can you give us any more flavor than "doing ANYTHING"? According to Wikipedia, Dalton was the author of "My Litter Box is Dirty," and a television host. How does this translate into the ability to do ANYTHING?


Also, I believe that this means everyone has claimed. Pooky, are you insinuating that in a game where (according to you) scum have provable powers, the town has ZERO method-of-investigation to discern these powers other than a blind investigation and an Inventor's investigation (courtesy of DGB) which may not even fall into the town's hands? How do you feel this would affect the balance of the game?

[Glork]

So, in a bastard-modded game, you're assuming that there could not possibly be any scum-masons?

That hardly seems like a reasonable assumption to make.


Miztef: Did either you or Thesp breadcrumb masonry at all? Could you talk overnight as normal masons do? Did the mod guarantee Thesp's innocence to you?

[Glork]

I realize that this fingers Miztef, and I don't care, since I don't consider Miztef a confirmed innocent.

My point is that, without investigations or without testing mason-pairs via lynching, there is no reasonable way to discern whether they are scum or town. Do you deny that this is the case?

Do you feel that it would be unbalanced to have no reliable way of investigating or otherwise testing mason-pairs without lynching half of each of them?
Do you think that there is an alternate manner of testing the mason-pairs other than investigations or lynchings? Why wouldn't you have proposed usch a plan/method before Zindaras and Primate had been lynched?


Also, you still haven't answered my request to have you explain your role flavor more clearly. The flavor behind my role/ability is very obvious -- I worked for the police. The flavor behind "Universal Replacement" has yet to be adequately explained by you.

[Glork]

In fact what I want to know is why you chose to push for CC's lynch when you could've TESTED HIS GUILT/INNOCENCE with a nightchoice that could've potentially saved the lives of TWO townies.

What makes NO SENSE to me is why a

COP

would push for a lynch of a Mason when the cop KNOWS he can investigate for guilt later.

Zindaras had lied about his role, tried to cover it up, and had tried to distance from

himself

. His behavior was so bizarre that I felt confident lynching him in spite being able to investigate him -- the potential reward (lynching one scum and outing another by the end of Day One) was more than worth the risk. Plus, if I were to simply investigate him and one of his halves just got nightkilled, it would effectively nullify my investigation. I'd have confirmed the mason pair, but one of them would be dead -- the exact same outcome as if we had just lynched one of them. Given Zindaras' (poor) play, his lynch was an absolute slam dunk.


Theo: I'm thinking, at this point, it is only optimal to vig if we mislynch. If we somehow end up mislyinching Pooky today, by all means try to kill me or Miztef. If Carbon Copy and/or Skruffs have recieved killing abilities from DGB, then they may also attempt to kill me and/or Miztef should Pooky somehow get lynched as town.

[Glork]

Would a no-lynch work today and then more investigations etc tonight? Pooky can you go back and magically say take Massive's role tonight or is it too late, only so we can kinda prove your role?

No. If we no-lynch and there is one death overnight, then there will be 8 alive tomorrow. 5 to lynch, halved, means that scum can

still

quick-lynch Nai if we assume 3 mafiates. It's too dangerous.

[Glork]

Well, Skruffs... yes, I'm fishing.

I am confident that there is no Mafia Roleblocker or Mafia Redirector. I think that they would have just chosen to screw with my night action if there were one.

If you or Carbon Copy can kill, then we have two possible courses of action:
1) Lynch Pooky. If he is town, Theo vigges Glork and Skruffs/CC vigges Miztef. We would both necessarily be scum, given that I would've lied about my investigation, and Miztef would have lied about me being Fred/Innocent.
2) Lynch

ME

today. Once I turn up as a Cop, then Pooky could be vigged by Theo, and DGB could be vigged by you/CC. We would avoid the insta-loss, unless DGB is not actually scum. And the way she's sided with Pooky, it's pretty obviously balls-to-the-wall that they're trying to push for a mislynch/victory against me. But if we can foil their plan by going two-for-one, I think we're in good shape, unless my math is horribly wrong or DGB is completely terrible at this game.

(Of course, now that I think about it, this also fails if Skruffs is the Godfather and simply lies to us, so I'm not even confident that I'd trust a response coming from him -- really, I want to hear from Carbon Copy.)

Anyway, the idea is that if,

even in the event of a mislynch

, we can set up for *AT LEAST* one scumbag to die via vigging, then we are *NOT* in LyLo, and we can TEST my claim (to an extent... I suppose it's possible that Pooky and I could both be gambiting scum) by simply lynching either one of us. Now obviously, I would suggest Pooky in this case (claimed Cop versus claimed Replacement, and one of us must be scum)... but that's really up to the rest of the town to decide.

It is just incredilby stupid to lynch a claimed mason on day 1, if they are actually scum, the cop will find them and the game will be a slam dunk win for the town since 2 scum go down right away after cop reveals investigation. It DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THOSE TWO MASONS ARE DOING, AS SOON AS THEY CLAIM MASON THEY SHOULD BECOME COMPLETELY UNTOUCHABLE AT SUCH AN EARLY STAGE IN THE GAME. [/qoute]

If you believe this to be true, why didn't you

SAY

anything on Day One?

Don't you think it's just a little bit of a coincidence that our "cop" happens to get innocents the previous days and just happens to hit his "guilty" exactly on LyLo?

This is a ridculous insinuation. The odds of me getting a guilty the first night were, assuming 3 scum, 3/12. The odds of me getting a guilty the second night were slightly better than 3/11 (for a non-random investigation). The odds of me getting a guilty last night would have been significantly better than 3/8.

Are you saying that statistically speaking, getting Innocent, Innocent, Guilty is an anomoly? A coincidence? Are you saying that after two day/night cycles of investigations, lynchings, and

observations of behavior

, it's mere chance that a Cop might hit a guilty on the third time around?
Because if you are, you're either an idiot or you're being deliberately misleading. And I know, sir, that you are not an idiot.

Oh and on the nightkill thing, Massive IS less confirmed than Carbon Copy and Primate is an obvious nonfactor since his power is worthless in the endgame anyway.

Now Pooky's trying to have his cake *AND* eat it, too. Now he is trying to discredit the validity/innocence of an effective mason-pair, whereas earlier he was claiming that having several mason-pairs was broken in favor of the town (which would only be the case if they could be confirmed innocent).
Primate (town) vouched for certainty that Massive was town. This is known. Massive cannot get much more "confirmed" than that. I'll grant you that Massive may have been "less confirmed" than CC if you compare like 98% to 100%, but that's an insignificant difference. Again, you're trying to misrepresent the facts to suit your own purposes.

[Glork]

Granted, Skruffs, I won't show up as "Cop," but it safe to assume that if I die with a pro-town alignment, I will not have lied about my role or my actions.

I am also unsure of Theo vigging DGB if Pooky comes up scum. I do see potential for DGB to be pro-town, as adamantly as she is pushing against me. However, the matter of her giving abilities to possible pro-town players seems rather WIFOMy. I am not at this time willing to get into a hairy debate like that.

[Glork]

Look at this from our point of view, does this setup make any bloody sense if the mafia were completely toothless and had no way of screwing with us in the endgame?

No, but I do not understand why the scum would choose to Roleblock elsewhere or switch/redirect

another

player's action when there's a claimed Cop in the game.... unless they planned on going tooth-and-nail against the cop all along... as if, perhaps, they knew that the Cop had investigated one of them because that player got a series of questions from the claimed Cop.

Hmm? Sound familiar?

Ok then Glork, tell me WHY mizteftown would choose to withhold a ONE SHOT INVESTIGATION UNTIL AFTER YOU COME UNDER FIRE.

Miztef already answered this, but he didn't get the ability to investigate until last night, and he didn't get to make his first post of the day until after I had "come under fire."
Durr. Oh yeah.

I REPLACED into the game, by the time I had finished rereading everything you guys had already lynched Zindaras

...d'oh. Valid point.

3/4*7/11*3/8 is 63/352 which is almost as bad as 1 in 6. I'm just saying its suspicious that this just happens to be the string of events that gives you your "guilty" on the LyLo day. I'm not saying its HORRIBLY unlikely. I'm just saying it's a bit of a coincidence

I don't understand where you're getting this stat from or why it is significant. My point is that N0 was a random investigation, so I had a rather low chance of hitting scum. N1 was not random, but I still had (assuming no Godfather) a slightly-better-than-30% (3/10, really, as I would not have investigated Carbon Copy). The odds of me getting a guilty last night were significantly better than 3/8 (8 other players, but two days' worth of gameplay under my belt).

My point is that the chances of me getting a guilty result start off ridiculously low

I never said anomaly, I said suspicious. I hold you to a better standard than 1 in 3 mr. paragon

WHOA! WHOA WHOA WHOA!
Not only do you use the logical fallacy

Burden of Proficiency

, but you also misrepresent the game facts horribly. My first investigation was

completely and utterly random

. It was N0, before any gameplay had occurred, so I had no advantage as compared to any other player. Even if Burden of Proficiency were

not

a logical fallacy, you should expect nothing more out of me from N1, so your claim of "better than 1 in 3"

DOES NOT EVEN APPLY IN THIS SITUATION

.

Confirm Vote: Pooky

Die scum die. When this game is over, I am writing the Burden of Proficiency page on the Wiki (I wonder why it hasn't existed before), and I am using this post as the TEXTBOOK example of how scum use this to make a ridiculous insinuation about an experienced player's alignment or ability.

If you do deny that this is ludicriously overpowered for the town, then TELL ME HOW MAFIA WILL SURVIVE DAY ONE MASSCLAIM! Because there is NO WAY this setup could be so imbalanced and still pass review

Because no player in their right mind would believe all three mason groups if they came out on Day One.

Remember in Covert Ops, how my role had the potential to automatically out

ANY

scumbag who faked a codename? Seol decided that, in spite of this game-breaking possibility, he could let my role exist as it did because

no reasonable town would blindly follow such a principle

. Keep in mind that we STILL do not know if Miztef is actually town (so even if he/Thesp claimed, we would have no way of proving or disproving them without lynching/investigating AT LEAST one of them). Keep in mind that there was ZERO way to prove Zindaras/Carbon Copy without lynching/investigating one of them. A day one massclaim would

NOT

have broken the game,

because no intelligent player would have taken all of the claims at face value, and there was no way of confirming any (much less all) of the mason groups without some kind of trial-and-error process.

IF YOU BELIEVE GLORK THEN THE TOWN ALSO HAS A COP WHO CAN CONFIRM HIS ROLE BY BASICALLY HAVING HIS RESULTS POSTED IN THE THREAD.

Circular logic and factually inaccurate.
1) If I am believed, then there is no reason to need to "confirm my role." The simple fact that you and DGB are casting doubt on my role is proof that I cannot "confirm my role."
2) My results will NOT be posted in the thread -- each night, regardless of whom I investigate or what their alignment is, the answer to any form of "Are you scum?" will always be some form of "No."

[Glork]

DGB, go look at the dead players in the first post. Tell me how many of them have shown up as "Townie" or "Mason" or any other *NORMAL* role?

The reason I might not show up as "Cop" is because that's not in the design of the game. I hadn't thought that through when I said I'd die as a cop.

Nevertheless, if I were lynched today as pro-town player, what role would you conclude that I had (given that I am an adamant supporter of pro-town players NOT lying)?
MessageSender/Cop. That's right.

And I'm still not a technical truth-detector -- I never claimed to be, and I denied being one in general when you asked me about that last time. I am just a MessageSender/Cop. I don't see how this is so incredibly bizarre, given that you are a three-target-picking-Inventor and Skruffs claims to be a Blind-Jack-Of-All-Trades. Massive was an Inheritor who gave money to give another player extra lives. WITH PROOF THAT A ROLE SUCH AS MASSIVE'S EXISTS IN THE GAME, HOW DOES A REGULAR HYBRID OF TWO ROLES SEEM SO INCREDIBLY FAR-FTECHED TO YOU?

Seriously. I want you to explain in detail why your role is believable, why Skruffs' is believable, and why Massive's exists. And then I want you to explain *WHY* you think that "MessageSender/Cop" is too bizarre to be in the setup.
Do it. I dare you. I dare you to find a convincing argument to support your current stance.

[Glork]

DGB, I have a question. Earlier, when you missed a PR post, you said this:

I'm trying to decide whether I think DGB's vote looks like busnig a scumbuddy, jumping on an "easy" bandwagon, or legitimate townie carelessness.

Zlegitimate townie PRESSURE. Why, he's not in danger is he?

As for the missed post restriction, there was a consequence at night.

What exactly was that "consequence"? You never explained it to anybody. And right now, I think that any/all information that we can share would be most helpful to everyone involved.

[Glork]

Then why did you say this earlier?

DGB have you lost any more dreams following post 338?

Zno, that's not how it works. It reduces the number of player choices I have.

And why did you still send three choices last night?

It would seem that DrippingGoofball is lying about her role, changing her story, and backtracking.

[Glork]

And yes, I deliberately asked a question I knew the answer to, because I wanted to see if I could catch DGB in a flat-out lie. Apparently she couldn't be bothered to read over her own posts, whereas I most certainly can.

[Glork]

It was his first post of the day. Are you saying he was lurking for no reason?

Not only that, but Miztef's post came less than 24 hours after the mod's post. Are you saying that it's unreasonable to conclude that Miztef was not on-site between the start of day and the timing of his post?




*high fives Nai*

We've got this one all but wrapped up.

[Glork]

It would seem that DrippingGoofball is lying about her role, changing her story, and backtracking.

ZNO, I just bothered reading my PM!!!

I don't understand what you are trying to say.


Earlier, you stated matter-of-factly the results of failing your claimed PR.
Just now, you stated that you had no idea what effect failing your restriction would have on your ability.

Please explain the large discrepancy between these two statements.

[Glork]

Also... ripped from the lolcats thread:

[Glork]

...you're on the fence Re: Pooky in spite of the fact that I have claimed a guilty result on him, with an innocent result on a dead innocent (Thesp)?

[Glork]

I demand to know why DGB, Pooky, and Skruffs have all posted since my Post 732 and have failed to address DGB's contradiction regarding her

I want

ALL THREE OF YOU

to address it directly. I want Pooky and Skruffs to tell me what they think of the fact that DGB has claimed two completely different things (reduces her number of targets by 1; no idea what effect it has) about failing her "post restriction." I

STILL

want DGB to explain herself more clearly.


I think that all three of these players are currently trying to overlook this blatant contradiction due the posting volume, hoping that it'll just slip away. I refuse to address or discuss any other topics until all three players have addressed this issue to my satisfaction. And I will keep on making bold, underlined, italicized, and/or gigantic-text posts until they have answered me.

Pooky, Skruffs: Do you think DGB is scum? Why or why not?

[Glork]

...and how does proof-of-ability translate into proof-of-alignment anyway? If that were the case I would also be proven as a pro-town player. My message-sending capabilities have been confirmed multiple times already.

[Glork]

CC: Massive is dead -- his alignment is kinda confirmed by that means.

[Glork]

I think he thinks it makes him come across as more genuine/angry/sincere.

Really, it's just a form of Appeal to Emotion.

[Glork]

Nai, do you have any preference between lynching Pooky or DGB? 'Cause I'm really fine with either...

[Glork]

Cult isn't possible, DGB.

Thesp acknowledged on Day One that he recieved and answered my message. He died as pro-town.

[Glork]

Cult isn't possible, DGB.

Thesp acknowledged on Day One that he recieved and answered my message. He died as pro-town.

Zmaybe he refused to join your cult. I dunno. I am at a loss to explain your completely unbelievable claim, and your scheming behavior in this game, pushing to lynch two townies in a row, and now trying to add Pooky to your feline taxidermy collection.

...now you're just trying to concoct theories. Think about the implications of a cult where its targets could refuse memberships. I don't think anybody would accept a position as a cultist, and every person I target would instantly be aware of such a cult, even if they didn't join. That'd be such a horribly weak cult

Seriously. Stop trying to make up new theories every time you realize (or are shown) that all game evidence goes against what you claim. This "cult whose targets can refuse to join" idea is ridiculous. It is

FAR

more "Flying Pumpkin That Shoots Lasers Out Of Its Ass" than MessageSender/Cop (hybrids of regular roles have existed in the past -- Cop/Doc, Cop/RB, RB/Vig, Cop/Vig, etc etc). There is ZERO evidence of a cult, and there is even evidence AGAINST me being a cult leader. Your "Glork is mafia and trying to get a lynch in possible LyLo" theory has been shot down. You've been shown to have claimed two completely different things about failing your "Post Restriction," and your only response is "I didn't remember and I didn't check my role PM." You've come up with the hair-brained idea that I'm a cult leader and are obstinately clinging to that theory even though I just pointed out that it's near-impossible.

Do you actually

believe

any of the theories you have presented, or are you just fishing for anything that some mistaken townie might latch on to?

[Glork]

That is, of course, assuming that you are a Scum Replacement and that you have a Scum Roleblocker as well.

[Glork]

Possibly.

No.


Again, if there were a scum roleblocker, I am convinced that they would have targeted

me

.

[Glork]

I want to hear Theo's thoughts right now.

I would also like to hear from Miztef.


Then I'd like to lynch either of Pooky/DGB.

[Glork]

Pooky, your "plan" is moot because I don't believe that there is a Mafia Roleblocker. Whether you have a replacement ability or not is irrelevant. I'm leaning towards you not having one, anyway, for the exact reason that you haven't killed a more useful player yet (unless there is some benefit for the scums to be gained by stealing Massive's ability -- which, I suppose, is possible).

[Glork]

Pooky, I am going to follow no testing plan to test you. Whether or not you have a replacement ability, I know that you are scum. I also know that Nai, Miztef, and Skruffs will eventually vote for you.

I already have the lynch that I want. Your desperate ploy to "test" your ability will likely either end in a scum victory, or you'll fall back on some other ridiculous happening, like claiming to have been roleblocked. It's just a last-ditch attempt to convince anybody to lynch anybody but you (or DGB).



Also, even if you *were* pro-town and you *do* have a replacement ability, as Nai said, you would also inheret his low lynch threshold. Your plan fails simply because, in the way you have proposed it, you would just be quicklynched tomorrow instead of Nai.

[Glork]

MOD: Can we have a vote count, please?

[Glork]

Oh, I also want to hear from Primate.

In fact...

Mod, can we get prods on Primate, Theo, and Miztef?

[Glork]

Actually, Pooky, I think you're screwed because both you and DGB went off the deep end after my claimed result.

I would've just pushed a massclaim (which was inevitable, really), realized that there's no normal doc role/ability in the setup, taken the hit (by letting Pooky get lynched), and killed me overnight.

Instead, you and DGB have linked each other, DGB managed to out herself by reporting two completely different stories regarding her role/restriction, and now you're getting desperate to not be down two scumbags by the start of tomorrow.

[Glork]

"Freudian Slips" are bullshit.

The first one is still hypothetical. The clause "Glork being scum" is the hypothetical case where Glork would be scum. You are still twisting that and misrepresenting it.

The second one is a little more baffling to me, but lapses in thought/typing happen. I have made typos in the past as town. In fact, I think I'm more careful with previewing and proofreading my posts when I am scum. People have one word on the brain and type a different word. It's not a legitimate scumtell, because I've seen it happen

all the time

, and just as much from pro-town players as scumbags.

[Glork]

No. It doesn't.

[Glork]

Pooky should have three... Glork, Nai, and Miztef are voting for him. (Nai switched from DGB to Pooky just recently.)

Theo is voting DGB.

DGB and Pooky are voting for Nai.

[Glork]

....if it's a Pooky/Theo/Skruffs axis, I'mma be pissed.

Not likely, though, given DGB's story-switching. See, Theo, you're only 90% convinced that I'm town. I am 100% convinced that Pooky is scum and maybe 80% convinced that DGB is scum. I know where I would rather have my vote.

[Glork]

I told you, Skruffs. I fingered Pooky, Skruffs, Theo, and DGB yesterday. Now that I know Pooky is scum and DGB is very, very, very likely scum, it would seem that the scums would have just roleblocked me last night, in order to prevent any game-breaking investigations from happening.

If the scums have a roleblocker who did not target me last night, they made a horrendous mistake.

[Glork]

...you're kidding me, Skruffs. I'm really getting the feeling that you're looking for any excuse not to vote Pooky at this point.

Appeal to Emotion is not legiitmate at all. I cannot believe that you're unvoting Pooky based on his alleged drunken ranting. Weak, Skruffs. Very, very weak.

[Glork]

And no, Pooky, your case against me is not based on "solid logic." It is based

entirely

on wild theorization which you have not and cannot definitively prove one way or another until one of us is dead.

[Glork]

Mod: Has Primate been prodded, as requested? If so, what is his status?

I must have missed your request. I'm prodding him right now.

[Glork]

Skruffs, could you list your full night choice history? Who did you target on which nights? I've gotten lost...

[Glork]

Freudian slips are the best scumtell there is, short of claiming scum. Freudian slips top the list. It's the only kind of scumtell where you can be almost 100% sure. It's the only objective evidence that a player is scum one can ever get.

This is completely and utterly wrong... literally about as wrong as one can get.

A freudian slip simply occurs when your subconscious has a lapse, and you say (or do) something which you did not intend. Not too long ago, I had a game in which I accidentally called somebody unlikely to be scum (instead of town), and the only reason I made that "slip" is because I'd said "scum" three times in the previous sentence and had the word "scum" on my brain. No malicious intent whatsoever.

Objectively

speaking, I made a simple typo, an error in my thought process, that led me just type the WRONG THING. Yet the calls of "freudian slip" were levied against me, and I had to explain why it was an innocent mistake.

Freudian slips aren't scumtells. They are errors. And to posit that you can "be almost 100% sure" that somebody is scum for making an error is absolutely ridiculous.

[Glork]

DGB, you'll have to tell me after the game if you

actually

believe any of this Freudian Slip nonsense that you are spouting. Because if you do, I might have to hit you... hard.

[Glork]

And Glork, if you actually believe the nonsense you posted that pretty much negates ANY Freudian slip as a even remotely being a scumtell, I am going to have to toss you in a vat of lukewarm noodles.

I do actually believe that. I think that slips are indicative of scum less than 25% of the time... thus, it is not a valid scumtell at all, as randomly choosing a player should yield scum at least 25% of the time.

[Glork]

DGB, both Nai and I have already tried to explain that "Glork being scum" was a hypothetical supposition. There's only been one "slip." Stop repeating that there have been two.

[Glork]

Hay Skruffs, vote 4 ur goon plz.


kthxbai.

[Glork]

I would say that it's weaker than a standard mason group, because though there are two "lives" and two votes, they are controlled by one player with one mind. One of the advantages of a mason group is that the players can (and should) discuss between each other their thought processes, their suspicions, and any other relevant feelings about the game and its players. Zindaras talking to himself accomplishes nothing (other than the fact that he's got a few bats in the belfry), so that's a significant disadvantage as compared to a standard mason group.

[Glork]

My role doesn't say anything about the target not answering the question. I would assume that I get the alignment anyway. I suppose I could double-check this with the mod.


In the meantime, I have a question for you, Skruffs: Why mention "not answering my questions" as a possible way of scum getting out of an investigation? If that's not the case, you've done absolutely nothing. And if it *is* the case, you've helped scum avoid my investigations. Proposing such an out for scums seems to serve

no

purpose for the town, yet it provides an obvious suggestion for the scums.

FoS: Skruffs

[Glork]

Er... what exactly do you mean by that, Pooks? If he thinks I'm lying about my role, then he'd offer an explanation as to why I'm even weaker than a normal cop?

[Glork]

V/LA

[Glork]

I'm back. I'm just waiting for somebody to end this stupid day. Seriously, Pooky and DGB should have died five times over in the past few weeks.

[Glork]

1)Are you scum?
2) Do you know I am an investigation role?
3) Do you know I am Glork?

Not only does this breadcrumb effectively put "Glork=Cop who is investigating you" directly into the head of the investigatee, you are almost absolutely certain that this information is NOT going to the scum because IF THE PERSON WHO IS RECEIVING THIS INFORMATION IS SCUM YOU CAN JUST CLAIM COP AND GET THEM LYNCHED RIGHT AWAY(And you will be believed because it doesn't make sense for scum to fakeclaim cop with a guilty on DAY ONE) if the target is innocent, then you have an innocent person who can BACK UP YOUR CLAIM AND KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING ON.

That's what protown Glork Cop/Messenger WOULD HAVE DONE.

Don't be ridiculous, Pooky. In the even that I were to target a Godfather (or another investigation-immune scum role, such as an SK), I'd be telling scum that I am the Cop, and setting myself up to be offed without even knowing it. That would be the

WORST

possible way to breadcrumb.

[Glork]

I don't understand your question, DGB. If I'm "the Godfather" (are you saying you're certain one exists?), then it doesn't matter how I breadcrumb. But I would still argue that telling people your role (whether you're lying about that role or not) is a terrible way to go about doing things.

[Glork]

Alright... before anyone does anything, I want to hear thoughts/statements from DGB, Theo, and Skruffs.



What are your thoughts on the game state right now, kids?

[Glork]

Have you anything else to say, Theo?

[Glork]

I think that I know why there was a No-Kill, but I'd rather not state what I think that reason is, because it'd be bad for the town.

[Glork]

Zindaras: I think that I know exactly who the last two scums are. I'm not going to elaborate until I have heard from everybody.

Pantsman: Same -- I got another guilty last night, but I'm not going to announce who it was on until everyone has weighed in.

[Glork]

Well, CC. To be completely 100% honest, I'd like you to fully claim, if you don't mind. I'm pretty sure that I trust you (as I said, I think I know the last two scums -- and you are not one of them). I mean, you've basically done so already, but I'd like to bring a little closure and possibly set up tonight/tomorrow to ensure that nothing can possibly go wrong.


Also, after everyone checks in, I'd like you to claim my target and result so that I know you're not just blowing steam.

[Glork]

Pretty sure that theory is wrong, Pantsman.

[Glork]

That's probably because she's Theo's scumbuddy.

[Glork]

I have a guilty on Theo. I find it most likely that you, Skruffs, blocked him from making the mafia's kill (and not on DGB, obviously).

I think DGB is scum for the afore-mentioned issues as well as her inconsistent "knowledge" of what happens if she "fails" her "post restriction"

and

her roleclaim, which doesn't seem the least bit "famous" to me.

[Glork]

We'll see, CC. And no, Theo wasn't solely "your catch." Obviously, the fact that I chose to investigate *him* showed a distinct suspicion -- one that I was not willing to voice during the day yesterday.

[Glork]

Ah, so you *did* get a protective role. That was my first guess, but then when you said you knew who I targeted and what result I got, that confused me and I thought maybe you had a tracker role instead. Did you eventually end up with two roles/abilities, CC? How did you know who I targeted and what result I got?

[Glork]

I don't really know yet. I know nothing about the nature of DGB's granted abilities, so I don't even know how that's possible. However, CC asked Theo why he lied about being a Vig before I even *hinted* at who my result was on, so I can tell that he knew who I tracked and what result I got. The reason I'm asking CC what's up is precisely

because

I don't know what's going on.

[Glork]

You missed that CC (Zindaras' second incarnation) also claims to have recieved a Doc role -- presumably from DGB.


Pantsman: I'd like you to protect CC, and for CC to protect me.

[Glork]

IH, you should know the answer to that question. I believe your predecessor already shared the details on that one.

[Glork]

BTW, since you're here... you should claim immediately.

[Glork]

But I'll be gaining another one anyway, Pantsman. Plus, I'll be quite convident that we'd be down to just a single scumbag after Theo gets lynched today. With the number of practically-guaranteed innocents running around, I'm okay with you dying for the sake of the collective.

That and I suspect that you could maybe possibly be a Godfather, which would prevent you from dying altogether. Based on Zindaras' death, I find CC very, very likely to be town. I know for a fact that I'm town, and I have an investigation on me, and I've nailed two scums via investigation. So even if you are legit, I think you're probably the most expendable "Doctor" we've got right now.

[Glork]

I'm willing to lynch Theo soon.