kinkster - 4 (Yosarian2, Primate, VitaminR, Raffles)
Raffles - 3 (Jalyn, Toaster Strudel, Dragon Phoenix)
Phoebus - 1 (kinkster)
Panzerjager - 1 (Cubsfan4ever)
Cubsfan4ever - 1 (Phoebus)
if u wanna stick some more votes fire away lets have a lynch at least in death I may be of use to you cos im probably not at the moment.Primate wrote:It's posts like this that make me think that, for all you talk about who is your ally, and for all you are concerned about the town as whole, you aren't actually in the town, and you aren't actually our ally.hollywoody1221 wrote:On the whole, I agree with what Raffles just said. In the two games I've played on here, a player gets lynched more often for being an idiot (or just acting like one for a moment) than they do for being scummy. But, I still am staying on ToasterStrudel because she (he?) is making comments that I find unhelpful, and detrimental to our cause, which is to lynch the mafia, obviously. S/he is preventing us from doing that, and is, therefore, not an ally of mine.
That said, though, I think Kinkster is more deserving of attention (and particuarly, pressure) right now. I want to put a bunch of votes on him and see what he does.
hollywoody1221 wrote:BTW, if anyone thinks i'm trying not to go for a lynch, I'm trying to lynch the person who will hurt us most by staying in the game. Right now, that's ToasterStrudel. He's acting like a complete r-tard right now, and if it's a ploy, as Panzerjager may be suggesting, then I must ask why a fellow townie would do that.
hollywoody1221 wrote:I think you may be kind of exaggerating a few things to spread some suspicion, though I may be, and probably am, wrong. Panzerjager placed his initial FoS of TS on monday of last, then placed his vote on him that saturday. A total of almost two full pages and 5 days seems like enough time to consider all the posts of everyone else, and was a reasonable time to come to a conclusion.Yosarian2 wrote: In the first post, it kind of sounds like you were thinking TS was more likely town then not, and you sounded pretty much unsure in general, but then you turn around and vote for her a few posts later.
Did something change your mind?
I'm still reasonably sure that TS is not a help to us. Oh, and slightly off the topic I quoted, does anyone else find it ironic that the person ToasterStrudel is , according to her, voting for is the person most similar to her?
In the first quote, it comes right after Panzerjager's quote:hollywoody1221 wrote:On the whole, I agree with what Raffles just said. In the two games I've played on here, a player gets lynched more often for being an idiot (or just acting like one for a moment) than they do for being scummy. But, I still am staying on ToasterStrudel because she (he?) is making comments that I find unhelpful, and detrimental to our cause, which is to lynch the mafia, obviously. S/he is preventing us from doing that, and is, therefore, not an ally of mine.
This is at a point of the game where TS is playing a game that is confusing to me, and not helping my voting situation. If he really is town, why is he playing a game that will draw a lot of flak? If he is scum, why put himself into such a position as to draw flak on day one for no good reason? This is the same question that I asked the first time, and I have yet to get a good response from ToasterStrudel.Panzerjager wrote:Alright. TS really wants to be lynched. This is a very bad situation. We have Cubsfan who is intentionally doing thinks to try and get people lynched. Then we have TS whos idiocy is confusing the town, purposeful or not. I have seen bad town and bad scum act like this. I have also seen good scum act like this purposfully counting on being ignored. So I kinda want to avoid lynching him due not wanting to lynch town but he is being detrimental. I really don't want to count on the vig(if we have one) to have to win this.
He makes a general statement, that may be applicable to many games. As I stated at the time, a person is more likely to be lynched early for playing stupidly than they are for playing like scum. This is because stupid play brings out the worst in some of us, and we play worse, making it easier for the mafia to turn us against each other, in general.Raffles wrote:The way I see it after I've been playing a few games, I think I see a pattern.
Everyone goes about using a same way to hunt out a scum. That is to get everyone to act the same. Anyone who step out of this line exhibit something so-called "a scum tell", and is suspected of having a hidden agenda.
I disagree and have a healthy dislike for this tactic (which seems to be universal throughout the site). For one thing, if this were the case, the best thing for the scums to do is to forget their hidden agenda. This means that the probability of exhibiting "scum tell" is determined by the player's experience, but independent of the alignment. Which implies the probability of someone getting lynched is solely based on experience. This implies that no matter what game, it is noobish player that will get lynched and whether that person is a scum or not is solely dependent on luck.
Given this, it is far more likely that the scum would survive, because there are always less of them and they have NK ability.
Second and more general point is this rule does not allow you to experiment with different playstyle. I for one have found out a noobish play attracts far more votes than a scummy play. But I'll leave it at that as the game is still ongoing.
That's pretty bad logic. You're basically attacking him because you think he's playing in a way that will cause people to attack him.hollywoody1221 wrote: This is at a point of the game where TS is playing a game that is confusing to me, and not helping my voting situation. If he really is town, why is he playing a game that will draw a lot of flak? If he is scum, why put himself into such a position as to draw flak on day one for no good reason? This is the same question that I asked the first time, and I have yet to get a good response from ToasterStrudel.
Two things I don't like about this statement.During the second quote, I am making something of an accusation of Yosarian/defense of Panzerjager on the basis that Yosarian was exaggerating Panzerjager's statements in order to put suspicion on him. I don't know why, as the vote on ToasterStrudel was correct at the time, as ToasterStrudel was playing in a style that was not helpful to the town.
...He makes a general statement, that may be applicable to many games. As I stated at the time, a person is more likely to be lynched early for playing stupidly than they are for playing like scum. This is because stupid play brings out the worst in some of us, and we play worse, making it easier for the mafia to turn us against each other, in general.
So...you didn't think he was scum when you piled onto his voted for him?That is my discussion on the three quotes, and the events leading up to them. As I mentioned earlier in this post, I will now discuss my views on the scumminess of any player. Firstly, though, I want tounvote ToasterStrudel, as it was a vote made solely for the fact that he may influence people the wrong way.
...Yosarian-Defends Dragon Phoenix to the death, has been suspicious of Kinkster since day 1 (ok, it's still day one, but I mean since page 3). I'm almost certain of an alliance with Dragon Phoenix.
"Those two people agreed on something so they MUST be scum together!" Please.But, if I get lynched, remember that Yosarian and Primate brought the initial suspicion against me, and that 1)Yosarian and DP have been in agreement. 2)Phoebus has been in agreement with DP, and is following DP.
Thanks. That's a new one for my collection.Yosarian2 wrote:<snip>I didn't like kinkster's vote on dragon phenox, and so I voted for kinkster. You didn't like Toaster Strudel's vote for Cubsfan, so you voted for Toaster Strudel. Are you scum with cubsfan?
And the vote I made on kinkster for his attack on dragon phenox was like 8 pages ago, but you only suddenly have a problem with it right after I fos you. <snip>
Wow. Perhaps scum led town into lynching you.Raffles wrote:Because I've mislead the town into lynching me, wasting a lynch.
0kay, we'll start on page 3. To be fair, you don't follow him onto a vote for mole, but you do vote for him with no justification for it. You simply put 'vote mole', which is a pretty sound reason. I'll accept it as a random vote, because we are in the 'random-vote' stage. When confronted on it, you replyPhoebus wrote: Oh and hollywoody...How am I following DP?
I don't even understand your allegations against me.
I'm still willing to accept it as a random vote, but it doesn't appear so random anymore. Then, on the same page, Dragon Phoenix confronts kinkster about switching his vote to him, saying it is 'crap logic at its best'. Then on page 5, Dragon Phoenix (hereafter referred to as DP), unvotes his vote on kinkster, changing his vote to mole, statingPhoebus wrote:mole is scum.
on principle.
Phoebus responds directly after that withDragon Phoenix wrote:Unvote Cubsfan4ever
Interesting how quickly that bandwagon started to develop beyond 3 votes. Food for thought later in the game.
For now,
Vote mole
I do not like non-voters.
I am still in wonder about how we can get info from it. The only people that will follow a lynch on someone who hasn't shown up yet are people who want to lynch a townie who won't defend himself. So, yes, I become suspicious of you there.Phoebus wrote:can we just lynch mole?
he will likely not show up.
we can get info from the lynch.
save us messy debates.
You respond, reasonably quickly, with this.kinkster wrote: wed gain nothing by just lynching someone because theve not posted
that being said Mole def needs a prod and we need to here from him
I don't think we gain anything by lynching someone who hasn't posted, as they have most likely forgotten about the game completely, which means that they probably aren't going to come along at all, which implies that they need to be replaced rather than voted off. Which is what happens.Phoebus wrote: kinkster - oh yes we would. your reaction tells me some things. they may be right, they may be wrong but it's been noted.
even no defense from a person can lead to information being gleaned from other people.
Yes sir, and i have noted it."Phoebus" wrote:
Now if I'm going to be scummy with someone else...please be sure to make a note of that.
I get jumped on for doing something similar to this TS, and you let Phoebus off without even a mention of it. Well, obviously, no one is going to get angry at their scum partner for trying to bandwagon someone.Phoebus wrote:
And I have nothing against cubsfan as a person but just believe that his style may be detrimental to the game.
He notes how DP has been able to exert a great amount of control over a few players, who influence everyone else.Jalyn wrote:
a) When Pheobus said:He wasn't actually voting for cubsfan4ever.at the risk of sounding repetitive, when i'm voting you because you can be a troll, can you please give me reasons not to vote you, without calling me names?
b) as soon as DragonPheonix talked about how fast the cubsfan4ever bandwagon was moving, it almost immediately starting reversing and TS started to go up.
Hmm. Thinking about it.
is a good example of this.Dragon Phoenix wrote:I must say that that post does not sit well with me either.
Unvote spectrumvoid
Vote Raffles
No. That's completely against the point though. We have no idea whether you're pro-town or not. If you're making an active attempt to appear pro-town as town, then you're not playing the game right. This isn't a competition to see who can act the most pro-town, then whoever doesn't will get lynched. What you will learn is that the scum you're trying to chase down will act, if anything, more helpful than the town. They will make sure that each of their points is perfectly explained, they will have back-up and contingency plans, they will rarely slip, becauseHollywood wrote:Is it really trying to look town if you really are town?
then the person doing it is probably scum.I am trying very hard to do all I can for this town, make sure that my every waking moment is ruled by the desire to hunt those evil scum, and there is nothing more that I would like to do more in this world than to kill a scum today!
Say for example you had a friend called Billy. Now, you quite like Billy, in fact, you might say that Billy is your best friend. You tell Billy this, and he is pleased. Billy, then, for the next two months follows you around saying to every single person you meet "THIS IS HOLLYWOODY, AND HE IS MY BESTEST FRIEND IN THE WORLD". Now, after a month or so, this is going to get really fucking annoying, amirite? This is effectively what you are doing here. You are saying "I AM HOLLYWOODY, AND THIS IS MY ALLY, PRIMATE. WE ARE ON THE SAME SIDE. YES! ME AND PRIMATE TOGETHER! ALLIES! So then, when I point out to you, this really isn't particularly normal behavior, you respond with a dictionary quote. Which is 100% correct, I grant you, but it just completely and utterly misses the point.woody wrote:First, in case anyone has condemned me for calling a fellow townie an ally...what should I call them?
Here's another thing I don't think you seem to grasp particularly well. Here you attack me for attacking you, an innocent. However, we have absolutely no idea whether you're innocent or not. This is a legitimate thought to actuallyWoody wrote:Primate, who seemed to awake out of a multi-page slumber to bring accusations against a person who has the best interests at heart.
"I AM THE AVATAR OF TOWN! ANTI-TOWN = ANTI-ME! I WILL DRIVE THE SCUM BEFORE ME WITH MY COLOSSAL EGO! WATCH AS I SAY I AM COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WITHOUT FLAW IN ANY WAY, AND ALL ATTACKS AGAINST ME ARE THE FEEBLE MACHINATIONS OF SCUM TRYING TO DESTROY MY GREAT INTELLECT!". You say that I am 80% scum simply because I attacked you? Do you see how plausible it is, from my point of view, that you arbitrarily pulled that number completely out of your ass, and you are simply calling me 80% scum in order to detract from my credibility in order to weaken the wagon against you? Hell, you didn't seem to notice anything else there that might make me assume that that wasn't the case, did you. So, either you're completely talking out of your ass, there was a vital point you completely forgot to mention, or you failed to think things thought properly before you actually posted, and also failed to consider the fact that I addressed above (the 'we dont know youre innocent' thing).Woody wrote:Primate- He randomly brought an accusation of me to the table, after I've done nothing that has been anti-town, because that would be anti-me.
People who aren't scum agree. There are going to be ties between every single person in this game, strong ties. People are going to agree with things, both things that seem to make sense to you and things that don't make sense to you. If every time someone agrees with someone else you see a scum pairing, then you will overload, brain hemorrhage and die. Also, you're missing the fact that the scum will make an active attempt to not agree with each other. I've seen scum claim guilty cop results on their partners, I've seen scum create huge, multi-post cases against their scumbuddies. Do you really think that just because people agree or disagree it makes them scum? Of course not. There are elements of that, but the vast weight of the evidence has to do with theWoody wrote:Ok, I'm too tired to do anyone else right now, but I listed the people that have been playing the largest roles, or been posting most consistently. I think DP and Yosarian, and Primate are scum partners, as I implied during my section on the characters.
So you say that the only people who will do something are scum? Well, then, is there a bad side to doing it? We may lose a townie if it ever gets near lynch (which I doubt), but we end up with a nice bandwagon to dissect.Wood wrote:The only people that will follow a lynch on someone who hasn't shown up yet are people who want to lynch a townie who won't defend himself. So, yes, I become suspicious of you there.
If you're really this paranoid, and this convinced that your theories are correct, then there really is no helping you. You've startedwood wrote:Primate, defending one of his partners, creates the kinkster bandwagon.
pfft. Even you know you're streching here. You're bending this point around your theory. Go away, take a nap, and think about this all. Then reread the thread, and come back with an opinion that factors in what me, phoebes, and to a lesser extent Yosarian, have said. You can decide you don't want to take our advice if you really want, but if you're that unquestioningly convinced that you have nailed a scum group that has 14 years of mafia experience between them (though 7 of that is DP ), and you're that convinced that you've done it halfway through Day 1, then you should learn to control that ego a bit.And, in response to the WIFOM comment, as I stated in my second long post, and as you alluded to, you 'veterans' have much more influence and control than anyone else would be expected to have. This could lead to them being more obvious, and being less subversive than they might normally need to be.
Um, no, not at all.hollywoody1221 wrote:1)When I said that there was an 80% chance that I thought you were scum, you know what that means? It means that, at that particular moment, I believed there to be an 80% chance that you were scum.
2) Obviously, no one knows what anyone else is, except for the mafia, who know who is mafia, and who isn't mafia. And, since no one knew me to be town, I had a number of choices
A) I don't defend myself at all, allowing a bandwagon to form, and possibly resulting in my lynch, which would not be good, for myself (obviously) and for the rest of the town.
B) I sarcastically satire the position, as Kinkster is doing. It's not working so well for him, so I decided this would not be the smartest thing to do.
C) I defend myself vehemently, going after anyone who has accused me. Yes, I was rather harsh of you. Yes, I'm still reasonably sure that you're mafia. This was the only logical move I could make, and arguably the best one, as if we lynch mafia today, then the mafia would probably get just alittle[/b] bit angry that I brought suspicion unto them. The doctor, if there is one, may notice they would want to get rid of me, as I found them out. Hopefully, he would defend me.